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Don't you think it's time to do something against Cloak & Stam(blades), ZOS?

Seraphayel
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Don't you think so? There might be a reason why 3/4 PvPers (mostly in battlegrounds) are either Nightblades, using 2h weapon+bow/dw or both.

Cloak needs the Streak treatment asap - every time you use Cloak its cost is increased by 50%. Why the hell isn't this done already?
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  • LukosCreyden
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    Detect pots.

    AoE.

    Magelight.

    Moving on, next thread plz.
    Struggling to find a new class to call home.Please send help.
  • Seraphayel
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    Aztlan wrote: »
    I'm sick of these nerf threads. Go away.

    When you do battlegrounds all day and out of 12 players usually 8-10 are Nightblades you can't deny this issue anymore. Has nothing to do with nerfs but with an obscene amount of Stamina builds that abuse cloak and some other mechanics (like evade).
    Edited by Seraphayel on April 13, 2018 11:17AM
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • Maryal
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    Here is the official word from ZOS regarding NBs:

    https://twitch.tv/videos/247754193?t=2h46m26s


    (see video at 2 hrs. 26 min. 28 seconds)
  • Turelus
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    Serious question @Seraphayel

    What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
    The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.

    Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.

    Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • ak_pvp
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    They let cloak become so overpowered. They couldn't fix anything, so a non functional ability appears weak.

    Let's look shall we: on top of the base invisibility which allows great escape.

    You become effectively immune to single target abilities. Nothing new can be cast on you. Anything en route to you disappears, even if they were half in you, but for some reason snipes can follow me round corners. The exception is precast on target burst like potl or curse.

    You fully negate dot damage whilst in it. A lousy fix to the breaking problem.

    It gives you guaranteed critical, if it works.

    This unlike other abilities has no increasing cost over time, no regeneration supression, no heal limitation, no limit on number of attacks cloaked, and no scaling of stats. As such it is the best defense in game by a long shot.

    But what about the counters? The counters are awful. Aoe would be OK if I could still damage the NB otherwise, but as a reveal, I don't know where the NB is, so they have the advantage, I may have to cast twice. It's melee range or one area, and expensive.

    Detect pots are a sacrifice of potion I have to use that are bad against other defenses, and they were nerfed too. 30s downtime, limited range. Not to mention force misses even when revealed.

    The only good counter is mark. And that is on an NB, and it is admittedly quite OP.

    Unless you have a Zerg to stomach the sacrifices, and swarm the area in reveals and aoes. The counters are in favor of the NB.

    The latter two counters should be per person only, so Zerg get less from it. Only Aoe damage should reveal the NB, so it works better as invisibility. But dots should still hit, and any damage en route to target already should hit.

    If you thought wings was so OP, cloak is like that x2.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Derra
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Serious question @Seraphayel

    What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
    The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.

    Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.

    Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.

    The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
    The answer is none.

    The problem is however that NB counterskills (outside of mark which is stupid in itself) are not good enough and as a result make you too vulnerable against other targets to warrant a permanent slot.
    The problem is not that NBs are too strong - their intended counters just aren´t used bc they´re useless against everything else and you can´t afford to slot them.
    Edited by Derra on April 13, 2018 12:12PM
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Ragnarock41
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Serious question @Seraphayel

    What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
    The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.

    Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.

    Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.

    Maryal wrote: »
    Here is the official word from ZOS regarding NBs:

    https://twitch.tv/videos/247754193?t=2h46m26s


    (see video at 2 hrs. 26 min. 28 seconds)


    So is it ''git gud'' or ''learn to play'' when it comes to nerfing nightblades, but it was okay to literally destroy stamDK in one single patch?

    Can you go ahead and just compare igneous shields to cloak, and be very honest and tell me which one do you think has actual counterplay. Just be honest for once in your life.

    Why does literally every build in this game has access to major defile while counterplay to cloak is locked behind a potion that has very short uptime and using it denies you your actual potion, how is this counterplay?

    Literally every 2 people out of 3 is a damn nightblade, yet this community is still blindly favoring nightblades, I am suspecting that It might have to do with most of these people playing as one. Its sad. Its just sad.

    nerf this, nerf that, nerf Dks, nerfs sorcs, but don't you dare even mention nerfing nightblades. right lads?
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 13, 2018 12:27PM
  • Biro123
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    Derra wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Serious question @Seraphayel

    What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
    The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.

    Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.

    Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.

    The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
    The answer is none.

    The problem is however that NB counterskills (outside of mark which is stupid in itself) are not good enough and as a result make you too vulnerable against other targets to warrant a permanent slot.
    The problem is not that NBs are too strong - their intended counters just aren´t used bc they´re useless against everything else and you can´t afford to slot them.

    Some would mention sorcs and shieldbreaker. Of course, that's not the kind of thing you mention in polite conversation, so I wouldn't dream of mentioning it.

    I have no problem with stamblades/cloak. I have the tools to deal with them. I tend to have bigger problems with anything that reflects (looking at you DK's).. But its all down to build, and most builds should have a weakness (assuming the also have a strength).
    Minalan owes me a beer.

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    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • Kadoin
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    I hope they don't change cloak, I like running around with a high amount of HoTs (7K+ HoTs), high damage, near-infinite sustain, and a spammable heal that makes the class overall better at healing and reducing damage than any other class in the game. Best part? I'm not even a pure build, and doing that on a hybrid and its not Summerset yet, and being a hybrid means that you cannot really lock me down because I have a sizeable stam pool. You know that something is unbalanced when you never die in 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, 1v4,1v5 in light armor. NB is definitely the best. Please don't nerf any aspect of it ZOS, I want to use NB in Summerset PvP. Can't wait (unless it gets nerfed).
  • NordSwordnBoard
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    I usually do ok with defensive rune, lightning form and curse. I may not always get the kill, but it gets them off my back in time for me to go stealth or set up a defense.

    Re-cursing nbs is a fun bit of whack-a-mole I love it.

    Edit: I disagree with nerf.
    Edited by NordSwordnBoard on April 13, 2018 1:03PM
    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • Mihael
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    I’m a super nb hater but I really don’t think nerfing cloak is the way to go that is their main form of defense. However somethings like incap do need to be fixed it’s a hard hitting ult that really cheap and applies defile And empowers your next abilities. Adjusting incap would make nb a bit less op while at the same time not destroying the class.

    Also to the people that say l2p just stop, nb (stam at least) is right up there with stam warden for best class weather your hurt nb self wants to admit it or not

    (And yes I’ve played both types of nb and still do so I’m not some salty dk for example)
  • Derra
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    Biro123 wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Serious question @Seraphayel

    What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
    The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.

    Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.

    Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.

    The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
    The answer is none.

    The problem is however that NB counterskills (outside of mark which is stupid in itself) are not good enough and as a result make you too vulnerable against other targets to warrant a permanent slot.
    The problem is not that NBs are too strong - their intended counters just aren´t used bc they´re useless against everything else and you can´t afford to slot them.

    Some would mention sorcs and shieldbreaker. Of course, that's not the kind of thing you mention in polite conversation, so I wouldn't dream of mentioning it.

    I have no problem with stamblades/cloak. I have the tools to deal with them. I tend to have bigger problems with anything that reflects (looking at you DK's).. But its all down to build, and most builds should have a weakness (assuming the also have a strength).

    You can still fight and kill a sorc without shieldbreaker without being in any form disadvantaged.

    Shieldbreaker fits the same bill as mark - hardcounter = bad.

    Reflect against a pure projectile builds is the same - hardcounter = bad.
    Edited by Derra on April 13, 2018 1:33PM
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Seraphayel
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Serious question @Seraphayel

    What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
    The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.

    Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.

    Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.

    You can't build your character to just counter one specific build. Okay, you can but that will make you pretty much useless against every other build.

    The main problem is the mass of Nightblades in PvP, especially in battlegrounds. You can't do anything against a coordinated NB attack. Sure if two enemies fight you at once you should have a hard time and eventually die but when you're not able to counter it in any way you know something is messed up.

    Hasn't necessarily to do with building towards a Cloak counter but with all the benefies Cloak NB has. Defile, incredible burst, stuns and more stuns, crazy mitigation + vanishing tools and on top of that guaranteed hits and good self healing. A pair of coordinated NBs can kill every target within 2-3sec and you can't do anything. They'll teleport, surprise attack / soul harvest and execute you. Bye bye. You don't even have time to react or counter because you can't break free fast enough. Your team mates can watch this scenario and do basically nothing against it because the NBs are gone after they killed you. And then the same scenario happens again. And again.

    I don't have a problem with cloak, I have a problem with cloak + incredible mitigation + incredible burst - all of that comes with one skill and the abuse of game mechanics.

    Just be honest: when Nightblade is BY FAR (and I mean every battleground has mostly 50% or more NBs) the most common class in battlegrounds, what do you think is the reason for this? Not because its mechanics are a little broken? Seriously, spamming Cloak is no issue for all of you?
    Edited by Seraphayel on April 13, 2018 1:58PM
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • Maulkin
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    Derra wrote: »
    The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
    The answer is none.

    I'm camping here till we see @Turelus come up with a response to this. I'm sure he'll come up with some funny statement and completely avoid giving an actual answer :p

    That said I personally think NBs are generally fine as it. If there's anything I would change is probably add some counter-play against Cloak into existing skills of other classes. So you don't have to slot useless skills like Revealing Flare but have some innate ability to deal with invis to a certain level. Might even need to buff Cloak in that case by giving it some benefit that works even if you get pulled out of Cloak, like Snare Purge for example.
    EU | PC | AD
  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    Maulkin wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
    The answer is none.

    I'm camping here till we see Turelus come up with a response to this. I'm sure he'll come up with some funny statement and completely avoid giving an actual answer :p

    That said I personally think NBs are generally fine as it. If there's anything I would change is probably add some counter-play against Cloak into existing skills of other classes. So you don't have to slot useless skills like Revealing Flare but have some innate ability to deal with invis to a certain level. Might even need to buff Cloak in that case by giving it some benefit that works even if you get pulled out of Cloak, like Snare Purge for example.
    Actually they're right so there isn't much I can say. If you're looking to get a 1-0 vs. me in forums debates there it is. :tongue:
    I'm not above admitting when someone is right and I am not.
    Edited by Turelus on April 13, 2018 2:00PM
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Ragnarock41
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    Maulkin wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
    The answer is none.

    I'm camping here till we see @Turelus come up with a response to this. I'm sure he'll come up with some funny statement and completely avoid giving an actual answer :p

    That said I personally think NBs are generally fine as it. If there's anything I would change is probably add some counter-play against Cloak into existing skills of other classes. So you don't have to slot useless skills like Revealing Flare but have some innate ability to deal with invis to a certain level. Might even need to buff Cloak in that case by giving it some benefit that works even if you get pulled out of Cloak, like Snare Purge for example.

    Camo hunter/evil hunter could use a massive buff to the actual use of it too. Something like : ''return %50 of cost when you successfully detect a stealthed enemy with it'', would be a good start, as this ability has insane stamina cost.
  • oXI_Viper_IXo
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    Why do we need another thread about this? Everything that's needed to be said has been repeated ad nauseam.
  • Aedaryl
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    Maulkin wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
    The answer is none.

    I'm camping here till we see @Turelus come up with a response to this. I'm sure he'll come up with some funny statement and completely avoid giving an actual answer :p

    That said I personally think NBs are generally fine as it. If there's anything I would change is probably add some counter-play against Cloak into existing skills of other classes. So you don't have to slot useless skills like Revealing Flare but have some innate ability to deal with invis to a certain level. Might even need to buff Cloak in that case by giving it some benefit that works even if you get pulled out of Cloak, like Snare Purge for example.

    Camo hunter/evil hunter could use a massive buff to the actual use of it too. Something like : ''return %50 of cost when you successfully detect a stealthed enemy with it'', would be a good start, as this ability has insane stamina cost.

    Why should people break their build being forced to use special abilities to counter a single class ?

    You don't need to sacrifise your build for countering damage shields, block or dodge. You can choose to specialize into coutering one of those, but you are not forced to use it for having the kill.

    NB : what about detect poisons guys ? Have u try it ?
  • DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER
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    Might aswell join them until everyone just plays a stamblade.
  • Turelus
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    Might aswell join them until everyone just plays a stamblade.
    Then finally game balance and no more complaints threads. :trollface:
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Yakidafi
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    Seraphayel excellently wrote that stamnb actually use the weapons designed for stamina classes. Well observed there mate!

    When I do bg pc EU there is not more nb than other classes. When I play against a nb they are not invincible. Everyone bleeeeeed the same.

    You say streak treatment to cloak bcs stamnb what stam nb spam cloak like that, reeeethorical question.

    "guaranteed hits + self healing" , whaaaaaat?

    Every class require a specific approach.

    "snipe follow me around corners :'( :' ( :'(" yeah like every other mf ranged attack.

    Yes I play nb aswell as all the other classes.

    Yes what haters write make me not take them serious.
    Moons and sands shall be your guide and path.
    PC EU/NA
  • Kilandros
    Kilandros
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    Derra wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Serious question @Seraphayel

    What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
    The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.

    Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.

    Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.

    The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
    The answer is none.

    The problem is however that NB counterskills (outside of mark which is stupid in itself) are not good enough and as a result make you too vulnerable against other targets to warrant a permanent slot.
    The problem is not that NBs are too strong - their intended counters just aren´t used bc they´re useless against everything else and you can´t afford to slot them.

    So much this.
    Invictus
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    Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

    DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT
  • technohic
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    Just make it so they can’t be healed while cloaked to match not being damaged by DOTs in cloak and it would probably be enough.
  • Ragnarock41
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    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
    The answer is none.

    I'm camping here till we see @Turelus come up with a response to this. I'm sure he'll come up with some funny statement and completely avoid giving an actual answer :p

    That said I personally think NBs are generally fine as it. If there's anything I would change is probably add some counter-play against Cloak into existing skills of other classes. So you don't have to slot useless skills like Revealing Flare but have some innate ability to deal with invis to a certain level. Might even need to buff Cloak in that case by giving it some benefit that works even if you get pulled out of Cloak, like Snare Purge for example.

    Camo hunter/evil hunter could use a massive buff to the actual use of it too. Something like : ''return %50 of cost when you successfully detect a stealthed enemy with it'', would be a good start, as this ability has insane stamina cost.

    Why should people break their build being forced to use special abilities to counter a single class ?

    You don't need to sacrifise your build for countering damage shields, block or dodge. You can choose to specialize into coutering one of those, but you are not forced to use it for having the kill.

    NB : what about detect poisons guys ? Have u try it ?

    This skill is used more in balance arguments than actual gameplay is my issue.

    I find this skill active really garbage. People use it for the major savagery more than the actual cloak counter thing.
  • thankyourat
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    Derra wrote: »
    Biro123 wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Serious question @Seraphayel

    What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
    The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.

    Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.

    Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.

    The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
    The answer is none.

    The problem is however that NB counterskills (outside of mark which is stupid in itself) are not good enough and as a result make you too vulnerable against other targets to warrant a permanent slot.
    The problem is not that NBs are too strong - their intended counters just aren´t used bc they´re useless against everything else and you can´t afford to slot them.

    Some would mention sorcs and shieldbreaker. Of course, that's not the kind of thing you mention in polite conversation, so I wouldn't dream of mentioning it.

    I have no problem with stamblades/cloak. I have the tools to deal with them. I tend to have bigger problems with anything that reflects (looking at you DK's).. But its all down to build, and most builds should have a weakness (assuming the also have a strength).

    You can still fight and kill a sorc without shieldbreaker without being in any form disadvantaged.

    Shieldbreaker fits the same bill as mark - hardcounter = bad.

    Reflect against a pure projectile builds is the same - hardcounter = bad.

    The same could be said about nightblade as well you can kill a nightblade without detect pots as long as he isn't running away at which point all my builds are destro builds so the nightblade could easily just sprint away no need to even cloak. I have only lost 2 duels to a stamblade in the last year and a couple 1v1 open world and they have all been because I couldn't cc break after incap. I'm not counting the times nightblades used resource poisons. I generally have the easiest time against nightblades both magicka and stamina maybe it's because I've played the class for so long, but I really don't even need detect pots I just use them because I play solo and need to kill snipers. I will say though 1v1 there is no way to kill a nightblade who doesn't want to fight i could potentially run away from every 1v1 I didn't think I could win. I think this is where some people consider cloak broken. I don't think running away is broken because you didn't kill anyone. If anything it's just annoying to have a nightblade know they are about to lose and just run away. 1v1
  • olsborg
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    Most skills that dont deal dmg or debuff ppl might need the streak treatment, cloak, breath of life, dark deal, wards etc etc.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
    The answer is none.

    I'm camping here till we see @Turelus come up with a response to this. I'm sure he'll come up with some funny statement and completely avoid giving an actual answer :p

    That said I personally think NBs are generally fine as it. If there's anything I would change is probably add some counter-play against Cloak into existing skills of other classes. So you don't have to slot useless skills like Revealing Flare but have some innate ability to deal with invis to a certain level. Might even need to buff Cloak in that case by giving it some benefit that works even if you get pulled out of Cloak, like Snare Purge for example.

    Camo hunter/evil hunter could use a massive buff to the actual use of it too. Something like : ''return %50 of cost when you successfully detect a stealthed enemy with it'', would be a good start, as this ability has insane stamina cost.

    Why should people break their build being forced to use special abilities to counter a single class ?

    You don't need to sacrifise your build for countering damage shields, block or dodge. You can choose to specialize into coutering one of those, but you are not forced to use it for having the kill.

    NB : what about detect poisons guys ? Have u try it ?

    You don't have to change your build you aren't forced to. I can run without detect pots solo with no problem. The detect pots are only there for snipers. Detect pots are just an added bonus but they aren't really needed.
  • WillhelmBlack
    WillhelmBlack
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    They let cloak become so overpowered. They couldn't fix anything, so a non functional ability appears weak.

    Let's look shall we: on top of the base invisibility which allows great escape.

    You become effectively immune to single target abilities. Nothing new can be cast on you. Anything en route to you disappears, even if they were half in you, but for some reason snipes can follow me round corners. The exception is precast on target burst like potl or curse.

    You fully negate dot damage whilst in it. A lousy fix to the breaking problem.

    It gives you guaranteed critical, if it works.

    This unlike other abilities has no increasing cost over time, no regeneration supression, no heal limitation, no limit on number of attacks cloaked, and no scaling of stats. As such it is the best defense in game by a long shot.

    But what about the counters? The counters are awful. Aoe would be OK if I could still damage the NB otherwise, but as a reveal, I don't know where the NB is, so they have the advantage, I may have to cast twice. It's melee range or one area, and expensive.

    Detect pots are a sacrifice of potion I have to use that are bad against other defenses, and they were nerfed too. 30s downtime, limited range. Not to mention force misses even when revealed.

    The only good counter is mark. And that is on an NB, and it is admittedly quite OP.

    Unless you have a Zerg to stomach the sacrifices, and swarm the area in reveals and aoes. The counters are in favor of the NB.

    The latter two counters should be per person only, so Zerg get less from it. Only Aoe damage should reveal the NB, so it works better as invisibility. But dots should still hit, and any damage en route to target already should hit.

    If you thought wings was so OP, cloak is like that x2.

    Don't forget you can literally cloak Dawnbreaker and stop any additional ticks. Pretty hilarious as it's supposed to be a ground based AoE.
    PC EU
  • TimeDazzler
    TimeDazzler
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    Cloak is balanced, L2P. This patch I'm using shadow cloak and next patch I'm still using shadow cloak. If you're playing vs a nightblade that solely relies on cloak to survive then im sorry but you're not playing vs a very good stamblade. Next patch we get 33% of max health over 3 seconds, hehe basically like a magicka vigor. People need to start playing stamblades like stamDK's. Woops that was a secret.

    #Inbeforenightblademaincomments
    PC NA
    Characters:
    Tımë Ðâzzlër - Stamina Warden - AD
    Tımë Ðâzzłër - Magicka Nightblade - AD
    Tımë Ðâzzłêr - Stamina Templar - AD
    Sugar Deady - Magicka Necromancer - AD
    Sprint v X - Stamina Sorcerer - EP
    Tımë Ðâzzlër Ðk - Stamina Dragonknight - EP
    Time Dazzler - Magicka Warden - DC
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    We can’t balance the nightblade class around the hordes of bad players that have flocked to it and, due to its many crutches, never learned to play the game.

    Nightblades need to be balanced around the 5-10% of players that are capable of surviving on other Stam classes as well. These are the players that do well on all Stam classes. When they take the natural mobility and evasiveness of Stam, throw in some troll king, and then add in the extra defensive mechanics of shade and cloak, you have a class that is virtually impossible for a solo player to kill, even using the counters.

    If a speed / detect pot existed, there might be an argument to be made that a counter exists. But that potion doesn’t exist, and anyone who uses a detect pot is utterly kitable for the 20s duration the potion is working.

    I don’t know any good nightblades that believe their class is balanced. Defending the class, at this point, is a bit cringey.
    Edited by Thogard on April 13, 2018 4:12PM
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
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