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Don't you think it's time to do something against Cloak & Stam(blades), ZOS?
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KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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Stamdk suck al around and need buffs haven't played my stamdk in ages wardens just better.Ragnarock41 wrote: »I break the cloak of Nb all the time on my stamplar its not hard.
jabs and hurricane is perfect for breaking cloak. we Dks sadly don't have such stuff. magDks do have a few AoE abilities(but they have other problems, like getting kited) but stamDks are stuck with noxious breath, which is a narrow cone and a very weak ability in general.
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technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seriously? Who doesnt know how to roll through the templar so jabs will miss?1 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Come on, everybody who says use the counters to cloak is just trying to find some arguments why it's supposedly not overpowered. Cloak counters are super expensive crap skills most of the time. It is like the same people that look for excuses for the overperformance of bleed builds because you can use that 6k Magicka cleanse to remove them. Yeah...
Super expensive crap skills such as Jabs, Hurricane, Caltrops, etc?
Heck I have zero cloak counters in my loadout, and I have zero issues with them because I use detection potions.
It's one of the easiest mechanics to counter in the game lol
All NB counters are crap. Detection potions is a crap. Cloak NB run at full speed and put awith mark target on you. Why NBs are so crying? Soon all will become NBs. Give mark target and deny cloaking. Why NB alone should have NB counter.Seraphayel wrote: »Come on, everybody who says use the counters to cloak is just trying to find some arguments why it's supposedly not overpowered. Cloak counters are super expensive crap skills most of the time. It is like the same people that look for excuses for the overperformance of bleed builds because you can use that 6k Magicka cleanse to remove them. Yeah...
Super expensive crap skills such as Jabs, Hurricane, Caltrops, etc?
Heck I have zero cloak counters in my loadout, and I have zero issues with them because I use detection potions.
It's one of the easiest mechanics to counter in the game lol
Of course all NB counters are crap except mark target, which again an NB ability. Easiest mechanics to counter ? Dont make everyone laugh.0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rimmidimdim wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Come on, everybody who says use the counters to cloak is just trying to find some arguments why it's supposedly not overpowered. Cloak counters are super expensive crap skills most of the time. It is like the same people that look for excuses for the overperformance of bleed builds because you can use that 6k Magicka cleanse to remove them. Yeah...
Super expensive crap skills such as Jabs, Hurricane, Caltrops, etc?
Heck I have zero cloak counters in my loadout, and I have zero issues with them because I use detection potions.
It's one of the easiest mechanics to counter in the game lol
It’s very easy for us to tell the skill level of the NBs posting here by looking at what they consider a counter to cloak. if Jabs is pulling them out of cloak, it says far more about them than it does about cloak.
I wonder how many of these NBs are going to look back on these counters after they’ve spent time improving and think “wow I was really embarrassing myself with some of my posts. I can’t believe I was able to get killed so easily”
Hopefully some, at least.
Wait what? If I say Jabs are very difficult to my NB build I'm a bad player?
Now I understand that I'm not a cloak spamming NB but you make it sound like counters too cloak don't work. They do.Ragnarock41 wrote: »I break the cloak of Nb all the time on my stamplar its not hard.
jabs and hurricane is perfect for breaking cloak. we Dks sadly don't have such stuff. magDks do have a few AoE abilities(but they have other problems, like getting kited) but stamDks are stuck with noxious breath, which is a narrow cone and a very weak ability in general.
Actually volatile armor is pretty good for breaking cloak. Problem is you run out of mag before they do.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭rimmidimdim wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Come on, everybody who says use the counters to cloak is just trying to find some arguments why it's supposedly not overpowered. Cloak counters are super expensive crap skills most of the time. It is like the same people that look for excuses for the overperformance of bleed builds because you can use that 6k Magicka cleanse to remove them. Yeah...
Super expensive crap skills such as Jabs, Hurricane, Caltrops, etc?
Heck I have zero cloak counters in my loadout, and I have zero issues with them because I use detection potions.
It's one of the easiest mechanics to counter in the game lol
It’s very easy for us to tell the skill level of the NBs posting here by looking at what they consider a counter to cloak. if Jabs is pulling them out of cloak, it says far more about them than it does about cloak.
I wonder how many of these NBs are going to look back on these counters after they’ve spent time improving and think “wow I was really embarrassing myself with some of my posts. I can’t believe I was able to get killed so easily”
Hopefully some, at least.
Wait what? If I say Jabs are very difficult to my NB build I'm a bad player?
Now I understand that I'm not a cloak spamming NB but you make it sound like counters too cloak don't work. They do.Ragnarock41 wrote: »I break the cloak of Nb all the time on my stamplar its not hard.
jabs and hurricane is perfect for breaking cloak. we Dks sadly don't have such stuff. magDks do have a few AoE abilities(but they have other problems, like getting kited) but stamDks are stuck with noxious breath, which is a narrow cone and a very weak ability in general.
Actually volatile armor is pretty good for breaking cloak. Problem is you run out of mag before they do.
Then can instantly recloak, and you can volatile again, after spamming that a few times you will be left with no magicka , which means no igneous shields, so if the nb decides to fight after eating your magicka he will have the edge. And he will probably run with much higher mag regen , as a result he will be able to cloak spam even if he doesn't really win.
just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 15, 2018 3:52AM0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.
And this is the problem. No class should have the option to reset every fight multiple times. That's one reason why Streak got its cost increase.Edited by Seraphayel on April 15, 2018 6:30PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.
And this is the problem. No class should have the option to reset every fight multiple times. That's one reason why Streak got its cost increase.
This is why I want a cloak nerf instead of incap nerf. I have no issues with nightblades doing metric tons of damage, I do have issues with how cheap their playstyle is and how easy it is for them to survive. A failed assassin should suffer the consequences.3 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.
And this is the problem. No class should have the option to reset every fight multiple times. That's one reason why Streak got its cost increase.
This is why I want a cloak nerf instead of incap nerf. I have no issues with nightblades doing metric tons of damage, I do have issues with how cheap their playstyle is and how easy it is for them to survive. A failed assassin should suffer the consequences.
Finally some honesty! I think this is the only anti-cloak post that states why they truly have a problem with cloak- missing out on that guaranteed kill from the many many bad nb's that use it to escape certain death.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway4 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.
And this is the problem. No class should have the option to reset every fight multiple times. That's one reason why Streak got its cost increase.
This is why I want a cloak nerf instead of incap nerf. I have no issues with nightblades doing metric tons of damage, I do have issues with how cheap their playstyle is and how easy it is for them to survive. A failed assassin should suffer the consequences.
Finally some honesty! I think this is the only anti-cloak post that states why they truly have a problem with cloak- missing out on that guaranteed kill from the many many bad nb's that use it to escape certain death.
Bad nightblades use it to escape certain death, after a failed gank and good ones use it to make sure you're not going to even hit him. Its a problem at all skill levels.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 15, 2018 7:14PM3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.
And this is the problem. No class should have the option to reset every fight multiple times. That's one reason why Streak got its cost increase.
This is why I want a cloak nerf instead of incap nerf. I have no issues with nightblades doing metric tons of damage, I do have issues with how cheap their playstyle is and how easy it is for them to survive. A failed assassin should suffer the consequences.
I agree. If they fail at the first time they're just cloaking and trying it again 5sec later when you're still out of ressources and can't just break free or roll dodge. That's my problem as well.
Granted that they're super strong on their first sneak attack but that they can try this multiple times in a row is a massive design flaw.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -3 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭Only class who has a right to complain about cloak is DK in my honest opinion. Other people just complaining to complain.As is it now ZOS is going to make every class like DK no one wants to play that class.3 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Serious question @Seraphayel
What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.
Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.
Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.
The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
The problem is however that NB counterskills (outside of mark which is stupid in itself) are not good enough and as a result make you too vulnerable against other targets to warrant a permanent slot.
The problem is not that NBs are too strong - their intended counters just aren´t used bc they´re useless against everything else and you can´t afford to slot them.
Some would mention sorcs and shieldbreaker. Of course, that's not the kind of thing you mention in polite conversation, so I wouldn't dream of mentioning it.
I have no problem with stamblades/cloak. I have the tools to deal with them. I tend to have bigger problems with anything that reflects (looking at you DK's).. But its all down to build, and most builds should have a weakness (assuming the also have a strength).
Shieldbreaker is usefull against every magicka build using healing ward and annulment which basicly means magsorcs , magwardens and mag nightblades . It can sometiems even deal some additional dmg under igneous shield and other weaker shields so yeah I think You wouldnt dream about mentioning it.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »
If only they work at least 50% of the time. Between pathing issues, lag, targeting issues good luck. Most the time I have to hit 3-4 times to even move by then they are 2 streaks away and out of range of the gap closer.
Funny - it´s the same with all the cloak counters nbs praise so highly.
But then atleast gapclosers have an unchanged functionality against every class in the game not only sorcs. Cloak counters do not.
Funny anecdote out of firsthand experience:
Big boss the dark phoenix our beloved khajiit dragonknight and an absolute marvel at playing this awesome game manages to stick to a sorc with his gapcloser.
He does not manage to stick to a nightblade with shade + cloak even when using bugged soultrap + volatile (2 alleged cloak counters).
All in all. If cloak counters were as universially useful and only as reliable as gapclosers currently are vs streak - everybody and their mother would run them.
They aren´t - we all know - which is why we´re all posting here with various personal motivations.
Edited by Derra on April 15, 2018 7:46PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.
And this is the problem. No class should have the option to reset every fight multiple times. That's one reason why Streak got its cost increase.
Well I bet you just hate magplars they literally wave their hands and reset fights over and over again. Just because you can see your opponent doesn't mean they can't reset fights.Seraphayel wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.
And this is the problem. No class should have the option to reset every fight multiple times. That's one reason why Streak got its cost increase.
This is why I want a cloak nerf instead of incap nerf. I have no issues with nightblades doing metric tons of damage, I do have issues with how cheap their playstyle is and how easy it is for them to survive. A failed assassin should suffer the consequences.
I agree. If they fail at the first time they're just cloaking and trying it again 5sec later when you're still out of ressources and can't just break free or roll dodge. That's my problem as well.
Granted that they're super strong on their first sneak attack but that they can try this multiple times in a row is a massive design flaw.
This is a easy fix right here. Don't run out of resources.
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.
And this is the problem. No class should have the option to reset every fight multiple times. That's one reason why Streak got its cost increase.
Well I bet you just hate magplars they literally wave their hands and reset fights over and over again. Just because you can see your opponent doesn't mean they can't reset fights.Seraphayel wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.
And this is the problem. No class should have the option to reset every fight multiple times. That's one reason why Streak got its cost increase.
This is why I want a cloak nerf instead of incap nerf. I have no issues with nightblades doing metric tons of damage, I do have issues with how cheap their playstyle is and how easy it is for them to survive. A failed assassin should suffer the consequences.
I agree. If they fail at the first time they're just cloaking and trying it again 5sec later when you're still out of ressources and can't just break free or roll dodge. That's my problem as well.
Granted that they're super strong on their first sneak attack but that they can try this multiple times in a row is a massive design flaw.
This is a easy fix right here. Don't run out of resources.
Oh yeah, its so easy to win the sustain fight when that stamblade has like 3k stam regen combined with super low skill costs, and you are forced into blocking as a Dk. Obviously it is going to be the nightblade who goes out of stamina first, right lad?Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 15, 2018 7:44PM2 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.
And this is the problem. No class should have the option to reset every fight multiple times. That's one reason why Streak got its cost increase.
This is why I want a cloak nerf instead of incap nerf. I have no issues with nightblades doing metric tons of damage, I do have issues with how cheap their playstyle is and how easy it is for them to survive. A failed assassin should suffer the consequences.
Finally some honesty! I think this is the only anti-cloak post that states why they truly have a problem with cloak- missing out on that guaranteed kill from the many many bad nb's that use it to escape certain death.
Bad nightblades use it to escape certain death, after a failed gank and good ones use it to make sure you're not going to even hit him. Its a problem at all skill levels.
Except every good nb I know kills you before you even know they're there and can respond with a single cloak.
How would changing cloak in any way prevent good nb's from doing this? Again, GOOD nb's aren't the ones resetting fights over and over until they wear you down, they don't need to.
So no, this is about missing out on killing bad nb's.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway4 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.
And this is the problem. No class should have the option to reset every fight multiple times. That's one reason why Streak got its cost increase.
Well I bet you just hate magplars they literally wave their hands and reset fights over and over again. Just because you can see your opponent doesn't mean they can't reset fights.
Not really an adequate comparison.
You can continue to attack a templar waving their hands at you. Generally pushing the enemy into the defensive allows you to build offensive momentum that will eventually put you into a position to break them (defense is more expensive than offense for almost all classes).
Cloak works differently than other defensive ability in a regard that it halts most incoming offense.
This not only removes any offensive momentum but also puts nbs into a position where they can control resource management of enemies due to being able to deny heavyattacks, elemental drain, siphoning attacks and ultimate gain in extended fights.
Edit: The last point partly touches your second point: A build that does not run out of resources in a "normal" fight might run out against a nightblade because cloak massively changes resource fight dynamics if active resource revocery mechanics are used.Edited by Derra on April 15, 2018 7:58PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.
And this is the problem. No class should have the option to reset every fight multiple times. That's one reason why Streak got its cost increase.
This is why I want a cloak nerf instead of incap nerf. I have no issues with nightblades doing metric tons of damage, I do have issues with how cheap their playstyle is and how easy it is for them to survive. A failed assassin should suffer the consequences.
Finally some honesty! I think this is the only anti-cloak post that states why they truly have a problem with cloak- missing out on that guaranteed kill from the many many bad nb's that use it to escape certain death.
Bad nightblades use it to escape certain death, after a failed gank and good ones use it to make sure you're not going to even hit him. Its a problem at all skill levels.
Except every good nb I know kills you before you even know they're there and can respond with a single cloak.
How would changing cloak in any way prevent good nb's from doing this? Again, GOOD nb's aren't the ones resetting fights over and over until they wear you down, they don't need to.
So no, this is about missing out on killing bad nb's.
Good nbs are exactly the ones that reset the fight untill their opponent just can't sustain it anymore. If a nightblade just goes full offense on me, he/she will be dead in a few seconds. what makes nightblades tanky is their ability to absorb too many hits. unlike dizzying swing, you can weave suprise attack combos and still dodge roll in time to avoid the enemy attacks. This creates an edge in 1v1 trades, and natural high stamina regen combined with low costs also helps.
Your understanding of a good nb is a gankblade, which is just a gimmick based on killing unsuspecting players with the help of ''element of suprise''. If you're aware of the ganker, yet still die to it, you might want to take a look at your build. I was able to survive gankblades in the procmania era, where they were able to repeat that burst every 4-5 seconds, nowadays it is a lot easier to survive from a gank, as long as you are aware. Real problem is actually killing the ganker because he will just dodge roll into cloak when he fails, and you will never see him again until he has another incap up.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 15, 2018 8:03PM0 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.
We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.
We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.
You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.0 -
ShadowMonarch✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.
We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.
You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.
The only way you could perceive that is if you think that EVERYONE is having a issue with this and not just your small minority on the forums.5 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.
We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.
You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.
Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.
mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.
So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.
If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.Edited by DDuke on April 15, 2018 11:05PM3 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.
We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.
You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.
I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, I explicitly stated earlier I PvP more on other classes and have zero issue dealing with nb's on those classes because I plan for them.
Please dont twist my words to further your agenda of getting cloak nerfed simply because you refuse to plan for them.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.
We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.
You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.
Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.
mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.
So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.
If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.
Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.
Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/
The list I think is more about :
Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks
The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.
The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.
The real classes that have counter are :
Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.
Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.
We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.
You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.
Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.
mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.
So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.
If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.
oh yeah I'm totally going to slot steel tornado and dbos to counter all stamblades, thanks man.
All jokes aside, I normally use noxious breath/volatile armor to deal with cloak. but Issue is not breaking cloak. Issue is nightblade buying too much time with the cloak-dodge roll spam, and alternating between them.
This is a problem especially against the ''rollerblades'' with very high regen. They are just impossible to outsustain , and you know you have to burst them quick, which isn't possible without an aoe ability like hurricane or jabs.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 15, 2018 11:24PM0 -
ShadowMonarch✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.
We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.
You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.
Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.
mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.
So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.
If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.
Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.
Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/
The list I think is more about :
Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks
The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.
The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.
The real classes that have counter are :
Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.
Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.
Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?
If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.
You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.
If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.4 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShadowMonarch wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.
We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.
You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.
Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.
mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.
So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.
If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.
Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.
Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/
The list I think is more about :
Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks
The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.
The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.
The real classes that have counter are :
Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.
Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.
Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?
If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.
You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.
If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.
Keep calm, I main magicka sorcerer and I think I've the second best counter to cloak.
I didn't spoke about nerfing cloak.
You didn't read my post, if you get detect by every AoE of this game, then you seriously need to L2P.
Detect potion isn't a good counter, since the ennemy can still cloak and force miss on projectile.
The only real counter to cloak is piercing mark. (Didn't tried detect poison)3 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShadowMonarch wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.
We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.
You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.
Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.
mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.
So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.
If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.
Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.
Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/
The list I think is more about :
Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks
The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.
The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.
The real classes that have counter are :
Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.
Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.
Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?
If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.
You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.
If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.
Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.
Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.
The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *
*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage
Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.
Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.Edited by Thogard on April 15, 2018 11:35PMPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp4 -
ShadowMonarch✭✭✭✭ShadowMonarch wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.
We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.
You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.
Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.
mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.
So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.
If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.
Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.
Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/
The list I think is more about :
Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks
The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.
The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.
The real classes that have counter are :
Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.
Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.
Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?
If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.
You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.
If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.
Keep calm, I main magicka sorcerer and I think I've the second best counter to cloak.
I didn't spoke about nerfing cloak.
You didn't read my post, if you get detect by every AoE of this game, then you seriously need to L2P.
Detect potion isn't a good counter, since the ennemy can still cloak and force miss on projectile.
The only real counter to cloak is piercing mark. (Didn't tried detect poison)
You are actually trying to say that a detect potion that allows you to SEE them in STEALTH isn't a good counter to their stealth?
Every class has access to it. They are easy to get. It 100% denys the advantage of stealth from a nightblade.
How is stealth a issue when you can counter it with a aoe or a pot or multiple abilitys that explicitly counter stealth.
If they had a potion that made it so I could just attack you through shields people would lose their minds.Edited by ShadowMonarch on April 15, 2018 11:36PM1 -
ShadowMonarch✭✭✭✭ShadowMonarch wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.
We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.
You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.
Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.
mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.
So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.
If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.
Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.
Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/
The list I think is more about :
Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks
The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.
The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.
The real classes that have counter are :
Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.
Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.
Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?
If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.
You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.
If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.
Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.
Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.
The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *
*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage
Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.
Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.
Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.3