Don't you think it's time to do something against Cloak & Stam(blades), ZOS?

Thogard

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

I wasn't aware that stamblades had lost the ability to get guaranteed crit heals in stealth, force misses on all projectiles / gap closers with vanish, get maj resolve as a passive, gain 20 ult when using a pot, apply minor maim on the same skill as their teleport, etc.

This "take 50% extra damage" passive that you are saying nightblades have... what tree is it located in?

Minalan

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

A stamblade can still spam cloak when detected, forcing every ranged non-AOE to force-miss.

It basically turns them into the same as every other stam class, except immune to projectiles. Then they can hide again for 45 more seconds.

And THAT is what needs to be fixed, because I’m pretty sure it’s a BUG. If revealed, the projectile hits. Period.

Thogard

Minalan wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

A stamblade can still spam cloak when detected, forcing every ranged non-AOE to force-miss.

It basically turns them into the same as every other stam class, except immune to projectiles. Then they can hide again for 45 more seconds.

And THAT is what needs to be fixed, because I’m pretty sure it’s a BUG. If revealed, the projectile hits. Period.

Not to mention the fact that there is no pot that combines detection with SPEED... meaning any stamblade can just kite the person who used the detect pot.

DDuke

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

I wasn't aware that stamblades had lost the ability to get guaranteed crit heals in stealth, force misses on all projectiles / gap closers with vanish, get maj resolve as a passive, gain 20 ult when using a pot, etc.

This "take 50% extra damage" passive that you are saying nightblades have... what tree is it located in?

"Guaranteed crit heals"
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged

I suggest you read that, because that phrase keeps popping up on the forums while the reality is very different.


I don't see the point of listing those class passives: DKs get free snares, +12% healing & free heals when using ulti, Sorcs get +10% physical dmg, Implosion etc, Templars get passive +6% wpn dmg, Burning Light procs, free snares with Ritual, Wardens get *** ton of dmg from Advanced Species, ridiculous amounts of sustain from Nature's Gift, practically free Major Mending etc etc

There's enough material to make a "Class X is OP!" thread of every class if you look at passives & try to draw conclusions based on them.

Thogard

DDuke wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

I wasn't aware that stamblades had lost the ability to get guaranteed crit heals in stealth, force misses on all projectiles / gap closers with vanish, get maj resolve as a passive, gain 20 ult when using a pot, etc.

This "take 50% extra damage" passive that you are saying nightblades have... what tree is it located in?

"Guaranteed crit heals"
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged

I suggest you read that, because that phrase keeps popping up on the forums while the reality is very different.


I don't see the point of listing those class passives: DKs get free snares, +12% healing & free heals when using ulti, Sorcs get +10% physical dmg, Implosion etc, Templars get passive +6% wpn dmg, Burning Light procs, free snares with Ritual, Wardens get *** ton of dmg from Advanced Species, ridiculous amounts of sustain from Nature's Gift, practically free Major Mending etc etc

There's enough material to make a "Class X is OP!" thread of every class if you look at passives & try to draw conclusions based on them.

Yes. I think you're missing the context of my comment. Please refer to the assertion I quoted.

DDuke

Thogard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

I wasn't aware that stamblades had lost the ability to get guaranteed crit heals in stealth, force misses on all projectiles / gap closers with vanish, get maj resolve as a passive, gain 20 ult when using a pot, etc.

This "take 50% extra damage" passive that you are saying nightblades have... what tree is it located in?

"Guaranteed crit heals"
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged

I suggest you read that, because that phrase keeps popping up on the forums while the reality is very different.


I don't see the point of listing those class passives: DKs get free snares, +12% healing & free heals when using ulti, Sorcs get +10% physical dmg, Implosion etc, Templars get passive +6% wpn dmg, Burning Light procs, free snares with Ritual, Wardens get *** ton of dmg from Advanced Species, ridiculous amounts of sustain from Nature's Gift, practically free Major Mending etc etc

There's enough material to make a "Class X is OP!" thread of every class if you look at passives & try to draw conclusions based on them.

Yes. I think you're missing the context of my comment. Please refer to the assertion I quoted.

This?

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

Perfectly accurate, unless the stamblade also has 3k+ stam regen, 20k+ health pool & 7x impen.


...nerf dodge roll? *shrug*

Thogard

DDuke wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

I wasn't aware that stamblades had lost the ability to get guaranteed crit heals in stealth, force misses on all projectiles / gap closers with vanish, get maj resolve as a passive, gain 20 ult when using a pot, etc.

This "take 50% extra damage" passive that you are saying nightblades have... what tree is it located in?

"Guaranteed crit heals"
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged

I suggest you read that, because that phrase keeps popping up on the forums while the reality is very different.


I don't see the point of listing those class passives: DKs get free snares, +12% healing & free heals when using ulti, Sorcs get +10% physical dmg, Implosion etc, Templars get passive +6% wpn dmg, Burning Light procs, free snares with Ritual, Wardens get *** ton of dmg from Advanced Species, ridiculous amounts of sustain from Nature's Gift, practically free Major Mending etc etc

There's enough material to make a "Class X is OP!" thread of every class if you look at passives & try to draw conclusions based on them.

Yes. I think you're missing the context of my comment. Please refer to the assertion I quoted.

This?

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

Perfectly accurate, unless the stamblade also has 3k+ stam regen, 20k+ health pool & 7x impen.


...nerf dodge roll? *shrug*

So please walk me through how a detect potion applies a resistance debuff or a 'increase damage taken" multiplier to a nightblade.

thankyourat

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

If it's 1v1 a magblade can kite you more than a stamblade. The stamblade has greater ability to kite groups which is why it has become a favorite for solo pvp. The fact that you think magblade is fine and stamblade is not tells me that your problem is with Dodge roll and shuffle. In my opinion shade actually has fewer counters than Cloak it's basically like streak the only counter to shade is gap closers. But magblade and stamblade basically have the same class abilities so it must be something out of class making you think stamblade is too good.

Thogard

thankyourat wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

If it's 1v1 a magblade can kite you more than a stamblade. The stamblade has greater ability to kite groups which is why it has become a favorite for solo pvp. The fact that you think magblade is fine and stamblade is not tells me that your problem is with Dodge roll and shuffle. In my opinion shade actually has fewer counters than Cloak it's basically like streak the only counter to shade is gap closers. But magblade and stamblade basically have the same class abilities so it must be something out of class making you think stamblade is too good.

You seem to be under the impression that a stam NB can't use shade, or that a Mag NB can teleport somewhere other than their shade. Getting kited by a mNB is a l2p issue.

My point from earlier stands. The natural defenses and mobilities of stamina classes can best be countered by single target damage. AOE will not work against a kiting target. But single target abilities are easily countered by vanish - only AOE damage works against a cloaked NB.

It is neither vanish NOR the stam mobility that is the problem. It is the combination... the ability to counter BOTH types of defense is impossible for many classes when the nightblade is skillfully played

DDuke

Thogard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

I wasn't aware that stamblades had lost the ability to get guaranteed crit heals in stealth, force misses on all projectiles / gap closers with vanish, get maj resolve as a passive, gain 20 ult when using a pot, etc.

This "take 50% extra damage" passive that you are saying nightblades have... what tree is it located in?

"Guaranteed crit heals"
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged

I suggest you read that, because that phrase keeps popping up on the forums while the reality is very different.


I don't see the point of listing those class passives: DKs get free snares, +12% healing & free heals when using ulti, Sorcs get +10% physical dmg, Implosion etc, Templars get passive +6% wpn dmg, Burning Light procs, free snares with Ritual, Wardens get *** ton of dmg from Advanced Species, ridiculous amounts of sustain from Nature's Gift, practically free Major Mending etc etc

There's enough material to make a "Class X is OP!" thread of every class if you look at passives & try to draw conclusions based on them.

Yes. I think you're missing the context of my comment. Please refer to the assertion I quoted.

This?

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

Perfectly accurate, unless the stamblade also has 3k+ stam regen, 20k+ health pool & 7x impen.


...nerf dodge roll? *shrug*

So please walk me through how a detect potion applies a resistance debuff or a 'increase damage taken" multiplier to a nightblade.

Who said it does? Most stamblades are squishy enough already and/or lack stamina sustain without cloak as you don't have strong mitigation skills/passives (fyi pretty much everyone gets Major Ward/Resolve via skill usage already) & you don't get sustain passives like Battle Roar or Nature's Gift.

Pretty much the entire stamblade sustain machine rests on being able to reset dodge roll stacking cost modifier with cloak usage.

KingJ

Stamdk VS Vs Stamblade

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

I wasn't aware that stamblades had lost the ability to get guaranteed crit heals in stealth, force misses on all projectiles / gap closers with vanish, get maj resolve as a passive, gain 20 ult when using a pot, apply minor maim on the same skill as their teleport, etc.

This "take 50% extra damage" passive that you are saying nightblades have... what tree is it located in?

Well if you have any dot on someone you lose the crit heal so they have regular healing all things considered.Only way they have crit heals is if their not running a dot and no stamblade build is dot less.

thankyourat

Thogard wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

If it's 1v1 a magblade can kite you more than a stamblade. The stamblade has greater ability to kite groups which is why it has become a favorite for solo pvp. The fact that you think magblade is fine and stamblade is not tells me that your problem is with Dodge roll and shuffle. In my opinion shade actually has fewer counters than Cloak it's basically like streak the only counter to shade is gap closers. But magblade and stamblade basically have the same class abilities so it must be something out of class making you think stamblade is too good.

You seem to be under the impression that a stam NB can't use shade, or that a Mag NB can teleport somewhere other than their shade. Getting kited by a mNB is a l2p issue.

My point from earlier stands. The natural defenses and mobilities of stamina classes can best be countered by single target damage. AOE will not work against a kiting target. But single target abilities are easily countered by vanish - only AOE damage works against a cloaked NB.

It is neither vanish NOR the stam mobility that is the problem. It is the combination... the ability to counter BOTH types of defense is impossible for many classes when the nightblade is skillfully played

A stamblade can use shade but it's much more effective on magblade because of all the range dps with roots CCs teleports and Cloak any melee build will not be able to get close to me. This is the reason magblade is so much stronger for 1v1. You probably just haven't played a good magblade since no one really plays the class. Also single Target abilities do not counter Dodge roll. Honestly nothing really counters Dodge roll but aoe, And any medium armor build utilizing Los is invincible 1v1. if you think magblade is fine right now what would you do to Nerf stamblade that wouldn't affect magblade

Ragnarock41

KingJ wrote: »

Stamdk VS Vs Stamblade

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

I wasn't aware that stamblades had lost the ability to get guaranteed crit heals in stealth, force misses on all projectiles / gap closers with vanish, get maj resolve as a passive, gain 20 ult when using a pot, apply minor maim on the same skill as their teleport, etc.

This "take 50% extra damage" passive that you are saying nightblades have... what tree is it located in?

Well if you have any dot on someone you lose the crit heal so they have regular healing all things considered.Only way they have crit heals is if their not running a dot and no stamblade build is dot less.

obviously stamDk has better healing, but then again, you can actually heal without getting hit in the face as a stamblade, meanwhile on any other class you will need to dodge roll spam if you want an unmitigated vigor. and even then AoE's can screw your healing.(which is why going under %40 hp usually equals to death on stamsorc/stamDk)

DDuke

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Stamdk VS Vs Stamblade

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

I wasn't aware that stamblades had lost the ability to get guaranteed crit heals in stealth, force misses on all projectiles / gap closers with vanish, get maj resolve as a passive, gain 20 ult when using a pot, apply minor maim on the same skill as their teleport, etc.

This "take 50% extra damage" passive that you are saying nightblades have... what tree is it located in?

Well if you have any dot on someone you lose the crit heal so they have regular healing all things considered.Only way they have crit heals is if their not running a dot and no stamblade build is dot less.

obviously stamDk has better healing, but then again, you can actually heal without getting hit in the face as a stamblade, meanwhile on any other class you will need to dodge roll spam if you want an unmitigated vigor. and even then AoE's can screw your healing.(which is why going under %40 hp usually equals to death on stamsorc/stamDk)

Defensively other stam builds certainly leave a lot to be desired, which is why I think there should be more unique defensive skills like cloak/streak, and why they should get rid of streak stacking cost modifier (it's a relic of a bygone era).

Being stuck on "spam dodge roll" mode really messes things up for builds that literally don't have another option.


Maybe the Psijic skill line will help in this regard, we'll be able to test it soon on PTS.

DDuke

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

All of this comes down to the fact that you guys are a small minority of players who simply refuse to acknowledge or accept any counter play that currently exists and your only prerogative is nerf nerf nerf.

Stealth has a magnitude of counters...

Imagine if shields had the same counters stealth had. Imagine for a minute there was a potion I could drink that made me bypass shields the way a detect pot lets me see a nightblade in stealth. Imagine for a moment there were multiple abilitys in the game that just bypassed shields altogether the way marktarget, magelight, ect all bypass stealth. People would lose their minds.

Quit crying over something just because you are too lazy or lack the intelligence to simply build to counter it. You don't need to put a 5pc on or change your build to counter stealth. All you need is to drink a potion, or slot a aoe, or slot magelight, there are so many things you can slot to pull and keep nightblades from stealth its ridiculous.


/thread over.

Shields have a counter. That counter is doing damage to them... If you're still stuck on the "unable to get past shields" aspect of PvP, i'm not surprised that you haven't contributed anything meaningful to the conversation. Please develop your skills further before weighing in on balance issues.

DDuke wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

I wasn't aware that stamblades had lost the ability to get guaranteed crit heals in stealth, force misses on all projectiles / gap closers with vanish, get maj resolve as a passive, gain 20 ult when using a pot, etc.

This "take 50% extra damage" passive that you are saying nightblades have... what tree is it located in?

"Guaranteed crit heals"
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392360/shadowy-disguise-still-bugged

I suggest you read that, because that phrase keeps popping up on the forums while the reality is very different.


I don't see the point of listing those class passives: DKs get free snares, +12% healing & free heals when using ulti, Sorcs get +10% physical dmg, Implosion etc, Templars get passive +6% wpn dmg, Burning Light procs, free snares with Ritual, Wardens get *** ton of dmg from Advanced Species, ridiculous amounts of sustain from Nature's Gift, practically free Major Mending etc etc

There's enough material to make a "Class X is OP!" thread of every class if you look at passives & try to draw conclusions based on them.

Yes. I think you're missing the context of my comment. Please refer to the assertion I quoted.

This?

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

Perfectly accurate, unless the stamblade also has 3k+ stam regen, 20k+ health pool & 7x impen.


...nerf dodge roll? *shrug*

So please walk me through how a detect potion applies a resistance debuff or a 'increase damage taken" multiplier to a nightblade.

Who said it does? Most stamblades are squishy enough already and/or lack stamina sustain without cloak as you don't have strong mitigation skills/passives (fyi pretty much everyone gets Major Ward/Resolve via skill usage already) & you don't get sustain passives like Battle Roar or Nature's Gift.

Pretty much the entire stamblade sustain machine rests on being able to reset dodge roll stacking cost modifier with cloak usage.

skill usage or passive usage? but that's another discussion.

I'm just having issue with your statement "most stamblades are squishy enough already"

how are they more squishy than a stam sorc or a stam warden?

You say they're squishy. I say they're just bad players that don't know how to use the myriad of tools available to them because they've been crutching on vanish so long. But vanish can also be used to good nightblades.

There is nothing in the stam NB kit that makes it take more damage than other classes. It lacks the block passives of stamplar and stam dk, but so what?

It also lacks things like Wings, Crit Surge, mushroom heals, Shimmering Shield, Ritual to get rid of DoTs/Defile etc etc

Defensively you've got Vigor, Rally (if 2H), Shadow Image & Cloak, and the latter two work in tandem typically (Shadow Image->Cloak to get away from someone countering cloaks with AoE for instance, if you didn't get bursted down already). That's it.


I'm sure it's possible to build a tanky stamblade that doesn't use cloak (S&B probably becomes necessary), but it won't perform as well as other classes. Maybe next patch with the new cloak morph?


Also I don't see what being "squishy" has to do with player skill level, only thing it really tells is what type of build one is playing.

If anything, I could make the argument that playing a squishy character takes a lot more skill, as your margin for error is much smaller & mistakes get punished harder.

brandonv516

NB's Stealth has been nerfed to the ground and will be further nerfed very soon when there is only 1 morph to it. Complainers won't be happy until the skill is completely reworked from stealth into something else. It's close.

Rather than adapt when losing the ability to cheat with Miats, people just complain until someone throws them a bone. Then it's only a matter of time before they want another bone...

KingJ

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Stamdk VS Vs Stamblade

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

I wasn't aware that stamblades had lost the ability to get guaranteed crit heals in stealth, force misses on all projectiles / gap closers with vanish, get maj resolve as a passive, gain 20 ult when using a pot, apply minor maim on the same skill as their teleport, etc.

This "take 50% extra damage" passive that you are saying nightblades have... what tree is it located in?

Well if you have any dot on someone you lose the crit heal so they have regular healing all things considered.Only way they have crit heals is if their not running a dot and no stamblade build is dot less.

obviously stamDk has better healing, but then again, you can actually heal without getting hit in the face as a stamblade, meanwhile on any other class you will need to dodge roll spam if you want an unmitigated vigor. and even then AoE's can screw your healing.(which is why going under %40 hp usually equals to death on stamsorc/stamDk)

In a stamdk vs Stamblade open world fight Dk has better healing especially if NB using Poison Inject than no crit heal and if the Nb cloaked than he isn't attacking the DK so the Dk healing is superior. My point is everyone act like NB have 100% crit heals in reality we have the same healing we always had and other classes have crit heals ontop of there bonuses.

Ragnarock41

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Stamdk VS Vs Stamblade

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I don't get ganked and I rarely lose to nbs because I plan for them, which is why I don't have an issue with cloak.

We have different views on what makes a good nb. If you're losing to cloakers, you might want to adjust your build.

You just said everyone that isn't a stamblade should adjust their builds lol.

Most builds tend to have AoE skills that can be used to reveal NBs - I'm having no problems with that on any of my 10 characters.

mDK - Volatile Armor, Leap, Meteor, Engulfing Flames
magplar - Sweeps, Purifying Light, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s
stamplar - Jabs, POTL, DBOS
stam DK - Steel Tornado, DBOS
stamblade - Piercing Mark, Steel Tornado, Bombard (bowblades)
magblade - Piercing Mark, Meteor, Tether
mag sorc - Streak, Curse, Ice Comet
stam sorc - Hurricane, Steel Tornado, DBOS
stam warden - Shalks, DBOS
mag warden - Shalks, Soul Assault to disable stealth for 2s

...and I've probably forgot quite a few. Inner Light (which quite a few builds run...) can also be used to prevent NB from stealthing if you're at (6m) melee range.


So I don't know where you get the idea that people need to adjust their builds, most builds already have tools to deal with cloak.

If there's any problem, it'd be that some NB builds are able to spam cloak longer than you can spam your AoEs, so you have to look at what enables that to find out what's wrong. Hint: it isn't cloak itself.

Using an ultimate to countering a spammable is not a good counter I think.

Also, most of the "counter" you list need to have the NB already visible, which is not "counter" for me/

The list I think is more about :

Mdk : Volatile Armor, Engulfing Flames
Mplar : sweep, purifying Light
Stamplar : jabls; POTL
Stam dk : ahahaahaha
Stamblade : Mark - sometime Steel tornado/Bombard.
Magblade : Mark
Magsorc : Streak, curse. (Why do you use Ice comet on magsorc ? Curious to know)
Stamsorc : Hurricane, Steel tornado
Stamden : shalks
Magden : shalks

The point you underline is almost everyone have an abiltiy able to reveal NOOBlade, and I agree with you most of people don't even try it.

The reality is that an experienced NB wll not be touched by 90% of these things, because good one don't move in front of them when invisible and so avoid AoE.

The real classes that have counter are :

Magsorc : streak and 3.5s curse is effective
Stamsorc : Hurricane/steel tornado radius is quite large
NB : piercing mark.

Other counter doesn't work against good NB, but it's funny agaisnt nooblades however.

Ever heard of a DETECT POTION?

If using any of the abilitys he listed is too hard for you then give them a try it will let you see any nightblade in stealth for a extended period of time.

You're argument is coming down too basically you and your friend don't want to build to counter or learn counter play so you are crying in vein hoping that something will get nerfed simply because you do not want to put in the effort to play against it.

If nightblades really are the "majority" class like people keep crying about then you would think you guys would simply slot some counters to them and boom you would already counter this "majority" of players.

Detection pot just turns a stamblade into a regular stam class wearing blessed meridia for 20s.

Stamblades who can't kite using the regular defensive mechanics available to ALL stam classes, combined with their classes natural defensive passives and the insane healing from crit heals while vanished, are not a benchmark for balance. The fact that so many bad playeres play stamblade because they are unable to be effective on other stam classes is indicative of how effective cloak is at the low end of the spectrum, but for good stamblades the skill is undeniably OP.

The sad truth is that the only counter to vanish is an AOE build, but the only counter to stam's natural kiting is a single target build. No player can run both and still expect to be competitive. *

*The exception would be stam sorcs who have hurricane and plenty of mobility and single target damage

Too many players who don't know how kite or LOS on stam are crutching on vanish. Yeah, for them it's not OP. But for decent players, it's absurdly OP.

Mag NB is fine because they can't kite indefinitely and the shade teleport is a mechanic for which counters DO exist.

Detection pot turns a stamblade into a scrambling squishy roach. What are you talking about.

I wasn't aware that stamblades had lost the ability to get guaranteed crit heals in stealth, force misses on all projectiles / gap closers with vanish, get maj resolve as a passive, gain 20 ult when using a pot, apply minor maim on the same skill as their teleport, etc.

This "take 50% extra damage" passive that you are saying nightblades have... what tree is it located in?

Well if you have any dot on someone you lose the crit heal so they have regular healing all things considered.Only way they have crit heals is if their not running a dot and no stamblade build is dot less.

obviously stamDk has better healing, but then again, you can actually heal without getting hit in the face as a stamblade, meanwhile on any other class you will need to dodge roll spam if you want an unmitigated vigor. and even then AoE's can screw your healing.(which is why going under %40 hp usually equals to death on stamsorc/stamDk)

Defensively other stam builds certainly leave a lot to be desired, which is why I think there should be more unique defensive skills like cloak/streak, and why they should get rid of streak stacking cost modifier (it's a relic of a bygone era).

Being stuck on "spam dodge roll" mode really messes things up for builds that literally don't have another option.


Maybe the Psijic skill line will help in this regard, we'll be able to test it soon on PTS.

I doubt it will do any good, as the new abilities will be accessible to everyone, and they really do not seem too strong.

Summerset is right around the corner, and to be honest with you, from the way things look, playing a heavy armor stamblade and pretending I'm a DK, makes more sense than actually playing my main.

This game is now purely balanced around PvE, and they don't even remotely care about PvP issues unless things go viral, like proc sets.

Sevn

I'm starting to believe most if not all the anti-cloak posters play on pc? They never had to adapt or build for nb's because they were cheating with miats, now they are at a complete loss so nerfing is all they know?

I hate assuming so I'll just ask, what platform do you all play on? Thogard for sure plays pc, who else?

Thogard

Sevn wrote: »

I'm starting to believe most if not all the anti-cloak posters play on pc? They never had to adapt or build for nb's because they were cheating with miats, now they are at a complete loss so nerfing is all they know?

I hate assuming so I'll just ask, what platform do you all play on? Thogard for sure plays pc, who else?

Miat's only helped with snipe, which is fine the way it is. i have no issue with snipe. The good NBs run poison injection with master bow anyway.

Ragnarock41

Sevn wrote: »

I'm starting to believe most if not all the anti-cloak posters play on pc? They never had to adapt or build for nb's because they were cheating with miats, now they are at a complete loss so nerfing is all they know?

I hate assuming so I'll just ask, what platform do you all play on? Thogard for sure plays pc, who else?

Most of the people making this claim, including Thogard, were playing against nightblades long before miats was a thing.

You're still trying to imply It is a player skill issue while in reality cloak itself is an ability that is used as a crutch, and the bad nightblades they rely on it will be at a complete loss when it gets nerfed.

Thogard

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I'm starting to believe most if not all the anti-cloak posters play on pc? They never had to adapt or build for nb's because they were cheating with miats, now they are at a complete loss so nerfing is all they know?

I hate assuming so I'll just ask, what platform do you all play on? Thogard for sure plays pc, who else?

Most of the people making this claim, including Thogard, were playing against nightblades long before miats was a thing.

You're still trying to imply It is a player skill issue while in reality cloak itself is an ability that is used as a crutch, and the bad nightblades they rely on it will be at a complete loss when it gets nerfed.

Thank you.

But technically it is a player skill issue. How many nightblades know how to tap block? Virtually none of them, because they've never had to learn. That's where claims such as "detect pots turn them into easily-killable potatoes" come from... it's not because of the NB class, it's because the majority of the people who play them are the least skilled players in the game because they've never had to develop any of the skillsets necessary for survival on any of the other classes. But when you take someone from another class, or someone who spends a lot of time dueling and has developed the soft skills, the defensive options available to the sNB make it unkillable.

Sevn

Thogard wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I'm starting to believe most if not all the anti-cloak posters play on pc? They never had to adapt or build for nb's because they were cheating with miats, now they are at a complete loss so nerfing is all they know?

I hate assuming so I'll just ask, what platform do you all play on? Thogard for sure plays pc, who else?

Miat's only helped with snipe, which is fine the way it is. i have no issue with snipe. The good NBs run poison injection with master bow anyway.

So you're confirming you did indeed use miats? Honestly can't tell.

What about you ragnarock? Nice sidestep, but you didn't answer the question? Do you play on pc and were you using miats?

For clarity, I've stated SEVERAL times I suck with a nb and cloak is indeed why I escape certain death. Thank you for verifying that the issue is letting us bad nb's escape your guaranteed kill with cloak.

Thogard

Sevn wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I'm starting to believe most if not all the anti-cloak posters play on pc? They never had to adapt or build for nb's because they were cheating with miats, now they are at a complete loss so nerfing is all they know?

I hate assuming so I'll just ask, what platform do you all play on? Thogard for sure plays pc, who else?

Miat's only helped with snipe, which is fine the way it is. i have no issue with snipe. The good NBs run poison injection with master bow anyway.

So you're confirming you did indeed use miats? Honestly can't tell.

What about you ragnarock? Nice sidestep, but you didn't answer the question? Do you play on pc and were you using miats?

For clarity, I've stated SEVERAL times I suck with a nb and cloak is indeed why I escape certain death. Thank you for verifying that the issue is letting us bad nb's escape your guaranteed kill with cloak.

Yes... and the removal of miat's hasn't affected me at all... Snipe spam was never a problem. Snipe has an audio queue, which is the same thing that Miat's does. (Miat's hurt mag sorcs the most because it made cFrags, dizzy, and other channeled attacks that DIDN'T have audio queues easily dodgeable). I still use Miat's for the nifty 3d keep icons and for the convenient AP tracking.

The sNBs who snipe spam are still 1vX fodder. I do use detect pots and i do enjoy slaughtering them back to back because they dont know any methods for mitigating damage besides vanish. Those sNBs tend to be the least-skilled players in the game and are not what I'm concerned about and not what I'm discussing here.

EDIT: Sevn i'm not trying to hide anything. You can judge for yourself by watching some of my play sessions on twitch under the username thogardpvp I suggest starting with the clips. I play a stamden that is usually on a dizzy swing build (which was hurt by Miat's and, unlike snipe, DIDN'T have an audio queue...)

Like sNB, stamden also needs a bit of a nerf and you can see me arguing for it in the stamden thread next to this one.

Lucky28

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

just rinse repeat rinse repeat and rinse repeat till he wins, or his incap is up. both means a kill either way lol.

And this is the problem. No class should have the option to reset every fight multiple times. That's one reason why Streak got its cost increase.

This is why I want a cloak nerf instead of incap nerf. I have no issues with nightblades doing metric tons of damage, I do have issues with how cheap their playstyle is and how easy it is for them to survive. A failed assassin should suffer the consequences.

but they do... against any halfway decent player if a nightblade trys to gank and fails they are going to die.

Sevn

Thogard wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I'm starting to believe most if not all the anti-cloak posters play on pc? They never had to adapt or build for nb's because they were cheating with miats, now they are at a complete loss so nerfing is all they know?

I hate assuming so I'll just ask, what platform do you all play on? Thogard for sure plays pc, who else?

Miat's only helped with snipe, which is fine the way it is. i have no issue with snipe. The good NBs run poison injection with master bow anyway.

So you're confirming you did indeed use miats? Honestly can't tell.

What about you ragnarock? Nice sidestep, but you didn't answer the question? Do you play on pc and were you using miats?

For clarity, I've stated SEVERAL times I suck with a nb and cloak is indeed why I escape certain death. Thank you for verifying that the issue is letting us bad nb's escape your guaranteed kill with cloak.

Yes... and the removal of miat's hasn't affected me at all... Snipe spam was never a problem. Snipe has an audio queue, which is the same thing that Miat's does. (Miat's hurt mag sorcs the most because it made cFrags, dizzy, and other channeled attacks that DIDN'T have audio queues easily dodgeable). I still use Miat's for the nifty 3d keep icons and for the convenient AP tracking.

The sNBs who snipe spam are still 1vX fodder. I do use detect pots and i do enjoy slaughtering them back to back because they dont know any methods for mitigating damage besides vanish. Those sNBs tend to be the least-skilled players in the game and are not what I'm concerned about and not what I'm discussing here.

EDIT: Sevn i'm not trying to hide anything. You can watch some of my play sessions at and judge for yourself. I suggest starting with the clips. I play a stamden that is usually on a dizzy swing build (which was hurt by Miat's and, unlike snipe, DIDN'T have an audio queue...) Like sNB, stamden also needs a bit of a nerf and you can see me arguing for it in the stamden thread next to this one.

I appreciate your honesty, but let us be serious, even if you were dependent upon miats to combat cloakers, would you state so? It's rather embarrassing to acknowledge you needed to cheat to deal with them isn't it?

I'm not hiding anything as well, I admitted I'm a terrible nb but my stamsorc skills are exceptional. I just like to utilize my pretty kitty for more than just thieving lol.

A cloak nerf really won't affect my pvp, I'll simply rebuild into a unkillable heavy armor 60k health high regen build that uses Emist to escape instead of cloak and carry on, but a nerf WILL impact my pve, and that is unacceptable for me.

This is why I'm suggesting asking for buffs to the counters instead of nerfing a key skill for thievery because a percentage of pvper's don't want to adjust their builds to deal with what is being claimed as the majority of pvper's in cyro.

I'll ask another simple question, if they did indeed improve the counters, would you all then be willing to adjust your builds?

Thogard

Sevn wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I'm starting to believe most if not all the anti-cloak posters play on pc? They never had to adapt or build for nb's because they were cheating with miats, now they are at a complete loss so nerfing is all they know?

I hate assuming so I'll just ask, what platform do you all play on? Thogard for sure plays pc, who else?

Miat's only helped with snipe, which is fine the way it is. i have no issue with snipe. The good NBs run poison injection with master bow anyway.

So you're confirming you did indeed use miats? Honestly can't tell.

What about you ragnarock? Nice sidestep, but you didn't answer the question? Do you play on pc and were you using miats?

For clarity, I've stated SEVERAL times I suck with a nb and cloak is indeed why I escape certain death. Thank you for verifying that the issue is letting us bad nb's escape your guaranteed kill with cloak.

Yes... and the removal of miat's hasn't affected me at all... Snipe spam was never a problem. Snipe has an audio queue, which is the same thing that Miat's does. (Miat's hurt mag sorcs the most because it made cFrags, dizzy, and other channeled attacks that DIDN'T have audio queues easily dodgeable). I still use Miat's for the nifty 3d keep icons and for the convenient AP tracking.

The sNBs who snipe spam are still 1vX fodder. I do use detect pots and i do enjoy slaughtering them back to back because they dont know any methods for mitigating damage besides vanish. Those sNBs tend to be the least-skilled players in the game and are not what I'm concerned about and not what I'm discussing here.

EDIT: Sevn i'm not trying to hide anything. You can watch some of my play sessions at and judge for yourself. I suggest starting with the clips. I play a stamden that is usually on a dizzy swing build (which was hurt by Miat's and, unlike snipe, DIDN'T have an audio queue...) Like sNB, stamden also needs a bit of a nerf and you can see me arguing for it in the stamden thread next to this one.

I appreciate your honesty, but let us be serious, even if you were dependent upon miats to combat cloakers, would you state so? It's rather embarrassing to acknowledge you needed to cheat to deal with them isn't it?

I'm not hiding anything as well, I admitted I'm a terrible nb but my stamsorc skills are exceptional. I just like to utilize my pretty kitty for more than just thieving lol.

A cloak nerf really won't affect my pvp, I'll simply rebuild into a unkillable heavy armor 60k health high regen build and carry on, but a nerf WILL impact my pve, and that is unacceptable for me.

This is why I'm suggesting asking for buffs to the counters instead of nerfing a key skill for thievery because a percentage of pvper's don't want to adjust their builds to deal with what is being claimed as the majority of pvper's in cyro.

I'll ask another simple question, if they did indeed improve the counters, would you all then be willing to adjust your builds?

I track my overall K/D in battlegrounds with addons. My K/D has gone up since the Miat's removal. Snipe spam is not a problem for me and you can see plenty of instances of me dodging and avoiding snipe in my videos without the use of the Miat's addon. It's the easiest skill to avoid in the game.

In regards to your second question... i DO use detect pots. But using a pot that doesn't grant me speed ruins my ability to fight nightblades (or any other stam class for that matter) who know how to LoS and kite.

If they made it so that i could make a detect pot that's also a speed / stam pot, and they made it so that I won't get any more forced "misses" due to the NBs cloak cancelling my attacks even when i can see them, I would be satisfied and would consider cloak balanced. This change would be hardly noticeable to the less-skilled nightblades, but would ruin the extra cheesy, unkillable trait of the stamblades who really know how to combine ALL of the defenses available to them.

Sevn

Thogard wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I'm starting to believe most if not all the anti-cloak posters play on pc? They never had to adapt or build for nb's because they were cheating with miats, now they are at a complete loss so nerfing is all they know?

I hate assuming so I'll just ask, what platform do you all play on? Thogard for sure plays pc, who else?

Miat's only helped with snipe, which is fine the way it is. i have no issue with snipe. The good NBs run poison injection with master bow anyway.

So you're confirming you did indeed use miats? Honestly can't tell.

What about you ragnarock? Nice sidestep, but you didn't answer the question? Do you play on pc and were you using miats?

For clarity, I've stated SEVERAL times I suck with a nb and cloak is indeed why I escape certain death. Thank you for verifying that the issue is letting us bad nb's escape your guaranteed kill with cloak.

Yes... and the removal of miat's hasn't affected me at all... Snipe spam was never a problem. Snipe has an audio queue, which is the same thing that Miat's does. (Miat's hurt mag sorcs the most because it made cFrags, dizzy, and other channeled attacks that DIDN'T have audio queues easily dodgeable). I still use Miat's for the nifty 3d keep icons and for the convenient AP tracking.

The sNBs who snipe spam are still 1vX fodder. I do use detect pots and i do enjoy slaughtering them back to back because they dont know any methods for mitigating damage besides vanish. Those sNBs tend to be the least-skilled players in the game and are not what I'm concerned about and not what I'm discussing here.

EDIT: Sevn i'm not trying to hide anything. You can watch some of my play sessions at and judge for yourself. I suggest starting with the clips. I play a stamden that is usually on a dizzy swing build (which was hurt by Miat's and, unlike snipe, DIDN'T have an audio queue...) Like sNB, stamden also needs a bit of a nerf and you can see me arguing for it in the stamden thread next to this one.

I appreciate your honesty, but let us be serious, even if you were dependent upon miats to combat cloakers, would you state so? It's rather embarrassing to acknowledge you needed to cheat to deal with them isn't it?

I'm not hiding anything as well, I admitted I'm a terrible nb but my stamsorc skills are exceptional. I just like to utilize my pretty kitty for more than just thieving lol.

A cloak nerf really won't affect my pvp, I'll simply rebuild into a unkillable heavy armor 60k health high regen build and carry on, but a nerf WILL impact my pve, and that is unacceptable for me.

This is why I'm suggesting asking for buffs to the counters instead of nerfing a key skill for thievery because a percentage of pvper's don't want to adjust their builds to deal with what is being claimed as the majority of pvper's in cyro.

I'll ask another simple question, if they did indeed improve the counters, would you all then be willing to adjust your builds?

I track my overall K/D in battlegrounds with addons. My K/D has gone up since the Miat's removal. Snipe spam is not a problem for me and you can see plenty of instances of me dodging and avoiding snipe in my videos without the use of the Miat's addon. It's the easiest skill to avoid in the game.

In regards to your second question... i DO use detect pots. But using a pot that doesn't grant me speed ruins my ability to fight nightblades (or any other stam class for that matter) who know how to LoS and kite.

If they made it so that i could make a detect pot that's also a speed / stam pot, and they made it so that I won't get any more forced "misses" due to the NBs cloak cancelling my attacks even when i can see them, I would be satisfied and would consider cloak balanced. This change would be hardly noticeable to the less-skilled nightblades, but would ruin the extra cheesy, unkillable trait of the stamblades who really know how to combine ALL of the defenses available to them.

Not sure why you have brought up snipe, twice now, the discussion is about cloakers and miat users that used miat to avoid all cloaked attacks, not just snipe.

I mean I agree with you, snipe spammers are easy prey, what good nb leads with snipe, one of the easiest skills to avoid when a heavy attack has no audio que, but it's whatever.

I just needed to know that you are at least willing to settle for buffs rather than stay hellbent on nerfing cloak.

Thogard

Sevn wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I'm starting to believe most if not all the anti-cloak posters play on pc? They never had to adapt or build for nb's because they were cheating with miats, now they are at a complete loss so nerfing is all they know?

I hate assuming so I'll just ask, what platform do you all play on? Thogard for sure plays pc, who else?

Miat's only helped with snipe, which is fine the way it is. i have no issue with snipe. The good NBs run poison injection with master bow anyway.

So you're confirming you did indeed use miats? Honestly can't tell.

What about you ragnarock? Nice sidestep, but you didn't answer the question? Do you play on pc and were you using miats?

For clarity, I've stated SEVERAL times I suck with a nb and cloak is indeed why I escape certain death. Thank you for verifying that the issue is letting us bad nb's escape your guaranteed kill with cloak.

Yes... and the removal of miat's hasn't affected me at all... Snipe spam was never a problem. Snipe has an audio queue, which is the same thing that Miat's does. (Miat's hurt mag sorcs the most because it made cFrags, dizzy, and other channeled attacks that DIDN'T have audio queues easily dodgeable). I still use Miat's for the nifty 3d keep icons and for the convenient AP tracking.

The sNBs who snipe spam are still 1vX fodder. I do use detect pots and i do enjoy slaughtering them back to back because they dont know any methods for mitigating damage besides vanish. Those sNBs tend to be the least-skilled players in the game and are not what I'm concerned about and not what I'm discussing here.

EDIT: Sevn i'm not trying to hide anything. You can watch some of my play sessions at and judge for yourself. I suggest starting with the clips. I play a stamden that is usually on a dizzy swing build (which was hurt by Miat's and, unlike snipe, DIDN'T have an audio queue...) Like sNB, stamden also needs a bit of a nerf and you can see me arguing for it in the stamden thread next to this one.

I appreciate your honesty, but let us be serious, even if you were dependent upon miats to combat cloakers, would you state so? It's rather embarrassing to acknowledge you needed to cheat to deal with them isn't it?

I'm not hiding anything as well, I admitted I'm a terrible nb but my stamsorc skills are exceptional. I just like to utilize my pretty kitty for more than just thieving lol.

A cloak nerf really won't affect my pvp, I'll simply rebuild into a unkillable heavy armor 60k health high regen build and carry on, but a nerf WILL impact my pve, and that is unacceptable for me.

This is why I'm suggesting asking for buffs to the counters instead of nerfing a key skill for thievery because a percentage of pvper's don't want to adjust their builds to deal with what is being claimed as the majority of pvper's in cyro.

I'll ask another simple question, if they did indeed improve the counters, would you all then be willing to adjust your builds?

I track my overall K/D in battlegrounds with addons. My K/D has gone up since the Miat's removal. Snipe spam is not a problem for me and you can see plenty of instances of me dodging and avoiding snipe in my videos without the use of the Miat's addon. It's the easiest skill to avoid in the game.

In regards to your second question... i DO use detect pots. But using a pot that doesn't grant me speed ruins my ability to fight nightblades (or any other stam class for that matter) who know how to LoS and kite.

If they made it so that i could make a detect pot that's also a speed / stam pot, and they made it so that I won't get any more forced "misses" due to the NBs cloak cancelling my attacks even when i can see them, I would be satisfied and would consider cloak balanced. This change would be hardly noticeable to the less-skilled nightblades, but would ruin the extra cheesy, unkillable trait of the stamblades who really know how to combine ALL of the defenses available to them.

Not sure why you have brought up snipe, twice now, the discussion is about cloakers and miat users that used miat to avoid all cloaked attacks, not just snipe.

I mean I agree with you, snipe spammers are easy prey, what good nb leads with snipe, one of the easiest skills to avoid when a heavy attack has no audio que, but it's whatever.

I just needed to know that you are at least willing to settle for buffs rather than stay hellbent on nerfing cloak.

I think you might be misinformed about what miat’s did. It alerted people to channeled and projectile attacks. This allows people to roll dodge the snipes that were being channeled.. but sNBs don’t really use too many other channeled attacks from stealth... unless you count opening with a heavy attack, which wasn’t really an issue anyway since you wouldn’t have to actually target your target so they wouldn’t get an alert.

Derra

thankyourat wrote: »

If it's 1v1 a magblade can kite you more than a stamblade. The stamblade has greater ability to kite groups which is why it has become a favorite for solo pvp. The fact that you think magblade is fine and stamblade is not tells me that your problem is with Dodge roll and shuffle. In my opinion shade actually has fewer counters than Cloak it's basically like streak the only counter to shade is gap closers. But magblade and stamblade basically have the same class abilities so it must be something out of class making you think stamblade is too good.

On EU every decent stamblade runs shade + cloak + shuffle. I only know of one exception that isn´t a zergling or a ganker. Anyone that wants to fight has it.

Cloak synergises better with dodgeroll + shuffle than it does with healingward.
It´s true that it´s equally impossible to lockdown and kill a magblade for some builds/classes - but generally speaking a magblade is easier to fight than a stamblade - also because the toolkit is vastly different and requires a magblade to be visible for longer periods of time to deal their lethal dmg.