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Should the Warden be buffed?
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »yeah, the problem is finding ways to buff the warden in pve which doesnt make it exploitable in pvp...but i think the bird is dodgeable or blockable now? So maybe it isn't such an issue anymore? But i dont think playing the warden as a DD doesn't make much sense to be honest...works well as Tank and Healer tough.
What would be nice is if for example the bear ultimate was turned into an AOE cleave skill or give him some AOE capabilities...
for example Ultimate deals X damage in a cone area in front of the bear + applies minor fracture to all enemies hit (THE DREAM)
It's actually a junk class in PvP since the cliff racer nerfs. There is literally no excuse anymore to not buff their PvE performance. There never was an excuse since wardens always laked DoT damage, which is mostly useless in PvP (especially on a *** AOE skill like winter's revenge which a human player can just walk out of).
LMAO. Come on, that isnt even close to a true statement. You start by blaming the fundamental design of a new class on "PVP whiners" ignoring that this class basically came out this way, and then make blanket statements about PVP that simply arent true. It would be another story if warden launched as a competative PVE class, but PVP nerfs caused that to change, but it didn't happen that way. It's clear you have a PVE bias (something I am usually guilty of myself), but comments like this dont help the discussion or do anything to promote the health of the game.
Warden absolutely needs some help in the PVE DPS side of things, but so do templars, DKS, and magic Sorcs for that matter. The sustained DPS of wardens is actually wildly understated. There is a gap, but its closer than people let on. All that said, this has to be done with care because contrary to your wildly inaccurate statement, wardens are arguably the most powerful class in cyrodiil. The cliff racer nerf was appropriate, but did almost nothing to nerf good players (good players dont spam birds). It fixed an annoyance, nothing more.
Magicka wardens are not good in PvP. With their two burst abilities being incredibly easy to dodge (they are both telegraphed and have a 1.5 second wind-up), they pose no threat.Edited by MLGProPlayer on March 13, 2018 8:10PM1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stamina wardens are one of the most powerful classes in cyrodiil...
When they have an ultimate up and are able to like up a heavy or wrecking blow with sub assault and dawnbreaker all at the same time.
Highly conditional op-ness if you ask me.
Have you played stam warden in PVP? They ALWAYS have their freaking ultimate up. Dawnbreaker is dirt cheap, and Wardens regen ulti like crazy. It is the easiest burst combo I have ever played with, and perhaps the most powerful. You dont even need to land the wrecking blow. Sub Assault>Heavy Attack> Dawnbreaker by itself is really powerful, usually 1-2 reverse slices and your opponent is dead.
Stam warden is also passing bomblades as the go to DPS class for zerg surfing. Subs Assult>Heavy Attack>Dawnbreaker>Steel Tornado is insane damage, with an AOE execute to boot. At a minumum, they are certainly the best Large group damage class AND arguably the best 1vX class.
Throow on top of that that they have ridiculous access to class buffs, a shield that is arguably more powerful than a magic sorcs (but can be used liberally on a stam warden), and the only Stamina based burst heal. The only conditions for them being an OP class is that the person playing has a heartbeat and has managed to log into cyrodiil.
Again, not saying they dont need buffs in PVE. They absolutely do. But you have to have a basic understanding of where they are at in PVP, which is basically top of the food chain, if you want to get it right.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on March 13, 2018 9:34PM0 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »maybe give the bear an aoe dot (but make it a bleed) similar to dawnbreaker....give the bird minor fracture...make one of the netch flyes a stamina dot and give them back the physical damage passive
for magicka maybe make more skilld do frost damage to allow for more synergy there
The biggest buff the bear needs is to not have a summon animation.
The animation currently takes 2 seconds, cannot be cancelled, and interrupts YOU every time the bear dies and automatically re-spawns.
During boss battles with AOE, the bear is dying every few seconds, so you are literally being interrupted to re-summon every few seconds too. The design of this skill is beyond awful.
Every other game solved this problem by making pets immune to aoe damage and I don't see why zos won't implement the same thing. If you build a class around a pet, the pet needs to be just as durable as you are.
lol no
Making pets immune to damage "just because I says so" is a *** poor attitude lol
Pets don't get to ignore ingame mechanics here. And zos has already started going to lengths to improve pets I.E. The recent changes making pets have your active buffs, allowing them to scale off of your max resource for damage.
There were a couple other tweaks. But the warden's pet is fine. Their AI path needs work is all
haha what. a pet is just another skill, it's no different than any other skill or combination of skills besides it's appearance as a pet. just because it looks different doesn't mean it shouldn't be viable in trials.
there is a very good reason pets can stand in red in other games.
Pets give the highest parses in trials so what are you complaining about?
They are not going to get AoE immunity just because you don't like having a pet that dies. It's part of the trade off of having a summonable pet that does damage for you, can CC for you, and creates a Line of sight between you and your opponent or opponents.
Just like every skill in the game, there are checks and balances. Not God mode skyrim buddy
Pets do not necessarily give the highest parses aside from the case of Warden, what are you talking about? I'm talking about other MMOs with similar raid mechanics btw, I have no idea what anything was like in Skyrim because I didn't play it. Have you played any other MMOs? During the early years there were constant complains from people who played pet classes that basically all said the same thing, which is "I can't bring my pet/pet class to a raid because the pet dies and screws up mechanics". Guess what the solution that made everyone happy (besides you, apparently) was?
You seem to be confused about what I'm even suggesting here. Why are you talking about line of sight when I'm specifically talking about pets being immune to aoe in raids/raid mechanics? I'm talking about pets being able to stand in red and not triggering mechanics because they can't be controlled as well as the player can control their own character, not whatever situation you've come up with.
Falkreah Hold is a good example. Domihaus will kill your sorc pet over, and over, and over, and over again throughout the fight. Doesn't matter whether it's a ranged pet or the scamp, it will die. I'm going to assume Warden is pretty much the same. I haven't played my Sorc in awhile so I don't remember for sure, but I think the pet may have also triggered the ground aoe mechanic when Domihaus pulls the group in, but I'm not positive.
This is a situation where I believe pets should be immune to damage. What is the purpose of them dying over and over again? If you don't use a pet, you don't have these issues, but if you're a pet sorc your morphs aren't going to be optimal for dps without a pet. Same goes for a Warden. Who gets hurt besides the person playing the pet class if the scamp and bear can stand in the aoe that's killing them?
The answer is no one. There is no good reason for someone playing a pet sorc or warden to be punished in this situation.Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »yeah, the problem is finding ways to buff the warden in pve which doesnt make it exploitable in pvp...but i think the bird is dodgeable or blockable now? So maybe it isn't such an issue anymore? But i dont think playing the warden as a DD doesn't make much sense to be honest...works well as Tank and Healer tough.
What would be nice is if for example the bear ultimate was turned into an AOE cleave skill or give him some AOE capabilities...
for example Ultimate deals X damage in a cone area in front of the bear + applies minor fracture to all enemies hit (THE DREAM)
It's actually a junk class in PvP since the cliff racer nerfs. There is literally no excuse anymore to not buff their PvE performance. There never was an excuse since wardens always laked DoT damage, which is mostly useless in PvP (especially on a *** AOE skill like winter's revenge which a human player can just walk out of).
LMAO. Come on, that isnt even close to a true statement. You start by blaming the fundamental design of a new class on "PVP whiners" ignoring that this class basically came out this way, and then make blanket statements about PVP that simply arent true. It would be another story if warden launched as a competative PVE class, but PVP nerfs caused that to change, but it didn't happen that way. It's clear you have a PVE bias (something I am usually guilty of myself), but comments like this dont help the discussion or do anything to promote the health of the game.
Warden absolutely needs some help in the PVE DPS side of things, but so do templars, DKS, and magic Sorcs for that matter. The sustained DPS of wardens is actually wildly understated. There is a gap, but its closer than people let on. All that said, this has to be done with care because contrary to your wildly inaccurate statement, wardens are arguably the most powerful class in cyrodiil. The cliff racer nerf was appropriate, but did almost nothing to nerf good players (good players dont spam birds). It fixed an annoyance, nothing more.
Magicka wardens are not good in PvP. With their two burst abilities being incredibly easy to dodge (they are both telegraphed and have a 1.5 second wind-up), they pose no threat.
I will certainly concede that stam warden is stonger than magic warden, but again, saying magic warden is not good in PVP is just plain false. You are looking at such a narrow aspect of the class. You are ignoring the OP access to just about every buff imaginable, amazing heals and resource management, dirt cheap ulimates coupled with high ulti regen, and they pump out more snares than just about any class, making it easier to land combos when you need to. Are they the best 1vX class? Certainly not, but they are very powerful in PVP.
Wardens weren't OP because birds was undodgeable. They ARE OP because they were the first class designed from the ground up since the major/minor buff overhaul, and the devs gave them just about every tool you could possibly need.0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »- Swarm is good wear it is, the more enemies, the more OP it is.
Are you serious right now? Growing swarm require a a target to die in order to spread. In any aoe situation, nearly everything dies at the same time, making the spread useless. Also, as far as I can tell, they only spread once, not continually.
Swarm requires 10 seconds to pass, that’s it. Put it on 3 and 10 seoconds later it’s on 18
Gawd it gets so old people QQing when they don’t even know a class.
First off, I've never been in any situation in pve with more than a doze enemies at once (excluding skyreach), and 90% of aoe fights in dungeons are over with in the duration of a single elemental blockade.
So either you're pushing it for PvP, which is ridiculous because it will always get instantly cleansed in a zerg, or you're trying to protect some obscure skyreach farming build at the cost of holding the entire ability back for everyone else.
So who is it that doesn't understand the class here?
Okay , so clearly you don't run trails... Enough said.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.1 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Stam Wardens are in a good place. Capable of chasing 50k solo parse. Mag Wardens though are not nearly as well off. I think a buff tie a dot is what is needed. Not sure how, Winter's Revenge is already strong, same with swarm. I like the idea of a skill like Engulfing would buff Frost. Probably a pipe dream. Still they need something that can add 10k DPS.
What gear? Mundus? 6M? Can that person with the same gear get more on another class?
I am not said person, best I’ve done is 22k on any class, now I skins because I can tank. Either way... what I said is because of the below. I see Kraghs and the Bern makes me think its the War Machine build, however Slayer buffs are not listed. I am on consol though. It is a 3M dummy. Even if it is a Target dummy build though, its respectable and Wardens have to suffer a little or people will start crying "pay to win"Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »wow i really cant believe that responses i'm seeing since
The beetles AOE radius isnt limited to the beetles itself, its also around the player
This ability can not be interrupted because it's an instant cast
it can be extremely easily chained with any other burst ability due to it's actually explosion time
its basically a an extremely large instant cast AOE uppercut, with almost MATCHING damage, but beetles cost less
the stam morph GIVES ALL CAUGHT IN IT major fracture and major breach, and the mag morph stuns one target!
its spammable with all the above mentioned
its hard to dodge, because of the huge AOE radius on each beetle, only easy way to dodge this ability, is by dodging through the player to get behind them when this ability goes off
like i said, i honestly, and truly ( not tryna be jokey ) do not understand, how anyone could tell me they arent overpowered, ( i'm not talking about wardens in general, just the beetles )seeing how i use them myself, and i notice how powerful they are from my own experience, as well as literally EVERYONE i meet ingame that uses them, themselves, says they are overpowered, even a very experienced cyrodiil small scaler himself, said the beetles were overpowered, while he used them, as well as my own guild member that uses them, and is very experienced, says they are overpowered himself
i made this poll to somewhat gather people that shared my opinion, but for lack of better words, i'm just so surprised to be honest, not only at the reaction i received on this post ( the opposite majority vote i thought i would see )
another thing i really dont understand, is how people say warden sucks? even though its one of the most powerful classes right now, with access to most EVERY major buff, as well as EXCELLENT self healing with the ONLY non cast stamina heal in the game on a class skill line ( not counting vigor ) and people are honestly saying that the class is underpowered? i really dont understand, my BEST character is a mag warden, and has never had any issue doing any content so far
i very rarely post on these forums, but i just feel like..... nevermind, nobody cares anyways
Wow seriously? The best DPS test I've heard of from a Warden is 35k mag 38k stamina, Every other class breaks 40k, with some chasing 50k all self buffed.
They are hands down the undisputed worst PvE DPS class.
Yes Shalks are strong, but they are also clunky. They take 3s to go off, so you have to be planning ahead. They go off in the direction you're pointed, not the direction you're looking, which is a pretty big issue for any gamepad users.
Wardens have exactly 4 DPS skills in any tree, Beetles, Birds, Bees, and Winters Revenge. So for the class to have any chance all , all 4 have to hit hard.
I have no idea how you could claim its one of the most powerful classes? Do you only do solo PvE content? cause thats the only place their "Jack-of-all, master-of-none" is powerful.
People most certainly do care, they care about the whole picture. Which when point out only seems to have opened the QQ gate.
50k self-buffed????
Only I´ve seen 50k+ is warmachine stamblade......
Self buffed
It would appear Stamden are in a better place then I understood. Have a Magden parse? Not even War Machine it would seem very couriows about the build. However I do see Sub is 12% of the DPS coming in behind Endless Hail. Yet the OP wants to nerf a struggling class (even if you aint struggle on it.)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393276/are-warden-beetles-overperforming-overpowered#latest
How many wardens are in raids, especially dps? If the answer is not compareable to other classes, they are not in a good spot pve wise
More stamina Wardens then Mag DKs and Pay to Win. It will be at least another before they risk Wardens at Stam DK level
Edit: Or Magplar eitherMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Stam Wardens are in a good place. Capable of chasing 50k solo parse. Mag Wardens though are not nearly as well off. I think a buff tie a dot is what is needed. Not sure how, Winter's Revenge is already strong, same with swarm. I like the idea of a skill like Engulfing would buff Frost. Probably a pipe dream. Still they need something that can add 10k DPS.
What gear? Mundus? 6M? Can that person with the same gear get more on another class?
I am not said person, best I’ve done is 22k on any class, now I skins because I can tank. Either way... what I said is because of the below. I see Kraghs and the Bern makes me think its the War Machine build, however Slayer buffs are not listed. I am on consol though. It is a 3M dummy. Even if it is a Target dummy build though, its respectable and Wardens have to suffer a little or people will start crying "pay to win"Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »wow i really cant believe that responses i'm seeing since
The beetles AOE radius isnt limited to the beetles itself, its also around the player
This ability can not be interrupted because it's an instant cast
it can be extremely easily chained with any other burst ability due to it's actually explosion time
its basically a an extremely large instant cast AOE uppercut, with almost MATCHING damage, but beetles cost less
the stam morph GIVES ALL CAUGHT IN IT major fracture and major breach, and the mag morph stuns one target!
its spammable with all the above mentioned
its hard to dodge, because of the huge AOE radius on each beetle, only easy way to dodge this ability, is by dodging through the player to get behind them when this ability goes off
like i said, i honestly, and truly ( not tryna be jokey ) do not understand, how anyone could tell me they arent overpowered, ( i'm not talking about wardens in general, just the beetles )seeing how i use them myself, and i notice how powerful they are from my own experience, as well as literally EVERYONE i meet ingame that uses them, themselves, says they are overpowered, even a very experienced cyrodiil small scaler himself, said the beetles were overpowered, while he used them, as well as my own guild member that uses them, and is very experienced, says they are overpowered himself
i made this poll to somewhat gather people that shared my opinion, but for lack of better words, i'm just so surprised to be honest, not only at the reaction i received on this post ( the opposite majority vote i thought i would see )
another thing i really dont understand, is how people say warden sucks? even though its one of the most powerful classes right now, with access to most EVERY major buff, as well as EXCELLENT self healing with the ONLY non cast stamina heal in the game on a class skill line ( not counting vigor ) and people are honestly saying that the class is underpowered? i really dont understand, my BEST character is a mag warden, and has never had any issue doing any content so far
i very rarely post on these forums, but i just feel like..... nevermind, nobody cares anyways
Wow seriously? The best DPS test I've heard of from a Warden is 35k mag 38k stamina, Every other class breaks 40k, with some chasing 50k all self buffed.
They are hands down the undisputed worst PvE DPS class.
Yes Shalks are strong, but they are also clunky. They take 3s to go off, so you have to be planning ahead. They go off in the direction you're pointed, not the direction you're looking, which is a pretty big issue for any gamepad users.
Wardens have exactly 4 DPS skills in any tree, Beetles, Birds, Bees, and Winters Revenge. So for the class to have any chance all , all 4 have to hit hard.
I have no idea how you could claim its one of the most powerful classes? Do you only do solo PvE content? cause thats the only place their "Jack-of-all, master-of-none" is powerful.
People most certainly do care, they care about the whole picture. Which when point out only seems to have opened the QQ gate.
50k self-buffed????
Only I´ve seen 50k+ is warmachine stamblade......
Self buffed
It would appear Stamden are in a better place then I understood. Have a Magden parse? Not even War Machine it would seem very couriows about the build. However I do see Sub is 12% of the DPS coming in behind Endless Hail. Yet the OP wants to nerf a struggling class (even if you aint struggle on it.)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393276/are-warden-beetles-overperforming-overpowered#latest
How many wardens are in raids, especially dps? If the answer is not compareable to other classes, they are not in a good spot pve wise
More stamina Wardens then Mag DKs and Pay to Win. It will be at least another before they risk Wardens at Stam DK level
Edit: Or Magplar either
Also, templars and dks have a spot in raids, wardens lose to dks as tanks and to templars for heals.
Edit: not to mention stamplar and stamdk
Wardens are still BiS off tank, will stay that way as long as their self sustain is supirior.
Never heard of a warden off tank being bis, I thought it was still dk wit warden 2nd due to earthen heart passives, you got a build? Im curious.
Yes, and there are whole forum threads on the subject. War Horn once a minute and Igneous Shield every 4 seconds is need to keep up with Wardens Neteh and Nature's Gift passive. That passive does need an alley to heal once a secous Malough thats easy when you're in the group, harder when solo with adds like vSO Oozo and Serpent.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Stamina wardens are one of the most powerful classes in cyrodiil...
When they have an ultimate up and are able to like up a heavy or wrecking blow with sub assault and dawnbreaker all at the same time.
Highly conditional op-ness if you ask me.
Thats why I suggest a buff to a DoT magic skill. Even mag Warden isn't so bad off in PvPMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »- Swarm is good wear it is, the more enemies, the more OP it is.
Are you serious right now? Growing swarm require a a target to die in order to spread. In any aoe situation, nearly everything dies at the same time, making the spread useless. Also, as far as I can tell, they only spread once, not continually.
Swarm requires 10 seconds to pass, that’s it. Put it on 3 and 10 seoconds later it’s on 18
Gawd it gets so old people QQing when they don’t even know a class.
L2DPS. No trash survives more than 10s. For bosses that are alive more than that, growing swarm does nothing. Even if there are adds, they rarely stay alive long enough for the swarm to spread to them. The other morph is pretty weak, but still a much better option than growing swarm.
Now if it worked more like Templar's Reflective Light it could be interesting, going to 3 targets immediately.
Also clear you don't run trials eitherMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stamden needs to get toned down in PvP a little.
If befoul CP gets nerfed, stamden will need to get toned down in PvP a lot.
Take the beetles and give them some dots instead. VoilaPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Stamden needs to get toned down in PvP a little.
If befoul CP gets nerfed, stamden will need to get toned down in PvP a lot.
Take the beetles and give them some dots instead. Voila
Make them an ackward Dawn Breaker, and give the mag Beetles have a bigger DoT? I could see that. My only question is, that DoT can only be 3 seconds, is that enough time to keep it balanced in Cryodiil?Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Stam Wardens are in a good place. Capable of chasing 50k solo parse. Mag Wardens though are not nearly as well off. I think a buff tie a dot is what is needed. Not sure how, Winter's Revenge is already strong, same with swarm. I like the idea of a skill like Engulfing would buff Frost. Probably a pipe dream. Still they need something that can add 10k DPS.
What gear? Mundus? 6M? Can that person with the same gear get more on another class?
I am not said person, best I’ve done is 22k on any class, now I skins because I can tank. Either way... what I said is because of the below. I see Kraghs and the Bern makes me think its the War Machine build, however Slayer buffs are not listed. I am on consol though. It is a 3M dummy. Even if it is a Target dummy build though, its respectable and Wardens have to suffer a little or people will start crying "pay to win"Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »wow i really cant believe that responses i'm seeing since
The beetles AOE radius isnt limited to the beetles itself, its also around the player
This ability can not be interrupted because it's an instant cast
it can be extremely easily chained with any other burst ability due to it's actually explosion time
its basically a an extremely large instant cast AOE uppercut, with almost MATCHING damage, but beetles cost less
the stam morph GIVES ALL CAUGHT IN IT major fracture and major breach, and the mag morph stuns one target!
its spammable with all the above mentioned
its hard to dodge, because of the huge AOE radius on each beetle, only easy way to dodge this ability, is by dodging through the player to get behind them when this ability goes off
like i said, i honestly, and truly ( not tryna be jokey ) do not understand, how anyone could tell me they arent overpowered, ( i'm not talking about wardens in general, just the beetles )seeing how i use them myself, and i notice how powerful they are from my own experience, as well as literally EVERYONE i meet ingame that uses them, themselves, says they are overpowered, even a very experienced cyrodiil small scaler himself, said the beetles were overpowered, while he used them, as well as my own guild member that uses them, and is very experienced, says they are overpowered himself
i made this poll to somewhat gather people that shared my opinion, but for lack of better words, i'm just so surprised to be honest, not only at the reaction i received on this post ( the opposite majority vote i thought i would see )
another thing i really dont understand, is how people say warden sucks? even though its one of the most powerful classes right now, with access to most EVERY major buff, as well as EXCELLENT self healing with the ONLY non cast stamina heal in the game on a class skill line ( not counting vigor ) and people are honestly saying that the class is underpowered? i really dont understand, my BEST character is a mag warden, and has never had any issue doing any content so far
i very rarely post on these forums, but i just feel like..... nevermind, nobody cares anyways
Wow seriously? The best DPS test I've heard of from a Warden is 35k mag 38k stamina, Every other class breaks 40k, with some chasing 50k all self buffed.
They are hands down the undisputed worst PvE DPS class.
Yes Shalks are strong, but they are also clunky. They take 3s to go off, so you have to be planning ahead. They go off in the direction you're pointed, not the direction you're looking, which is a pretty big issue for any gamepad users.
Wardens have exactly 4 DPS skills in any tree, Beetles, Birds, Bees, and Winters Revenge. So for the class to have any chance all , all 4 have to hit hard.
I have no idea how you could claim its one of the most powerful classes? Do you only do solo PvE content? cause thats the only place their "Jack-of-all, master-of-none" is powerful.
People most certainly do care, they care about the whole picture. Which when point out only seems to have opened the QQ gate.
50k self-buffed????
Only I´ve seen 50k+ is warmachine stamblade......
Self buffed
It would appear Stamden are in a better place then I understood. Have a Magden parse? Not even War Machine it would seem very couriows about the build. However I do see Sub is 12% of the DPS coming in behind Endless Hail. Yet the OP wants to nerf a struggling class (even if you aint struggle on it.)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393276/are-warden-beetles-overperforming-overpowered#latest
How many wardens are in raids, especially dps? If the answer is not compareable to other classes, they are not in a good spot pve wise
More stamina Wardens then Mag DKs and Pay to Win. It will be at least another before they risk Wardens at Stam DK level
Edit: Or Magplar eitherMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Stam Wardens are in a good place. Capable of chasing 50k solo parse. Mag Wardens though are not nearly as well off. I think a buff tie a dot is what is needed. Not sure how, Winter's Revenge is already strong, same with swarm. I like the idea of a skill like Engulfing would buff Frost. Probably a pipe dream. Still they need something that can add 10k DPS.
What gear? Mundus? 6M? Can that person with the same gear get more on another class?
I am not said person, best I’ve done is 22k on any class, now I skins because I can tank. Either way... what I said is because of the below. I see Kraghs and the Bern makes me think its the War Machine build, however Slayer buffs are not listed. I am on consol though. It is a 3M dummy. Even if it is a Target dummy build though, its respectable and Wardens have to suffer a little or people will start crying "pay to win"Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »wow i really cant believe that responses i'm seeing since
The beetles AOE radius isnt limited to the beetles itself, its also around the player
This ability can not be interrupted because it's an instant cast
it can be extremely easily chained with any other burst ability due to it's actually explosion time
its basically a an extremely large instant cast AOE uppercut, with almost MATCHING damage, but beetles cost less
the stam morph GIVES ALL CAUGHT IN IT major fracture and major breach, and the mag morph stuns one target!
its spammable with all the above mentioned
its hard to dodge, because of the huge AOE radius on each beetle, only easy way to dodge this ability, is by dodging through the player to get behind them when this ability goes off
like i said, i honestly, and truly ( not tryna be jokey ) do not understand, how anyone could tell me they arent overpowered, ( i'm not talking about wardens in general, just the beetles )seeing how i use them myself, and i notice how powerful they are from my own experience, as well as literally EVERYONE i meet ingame that uses them, themselves, says they are overpowered, even a very experienced cyrodiil small scaler himself, said the beetles were overpowered, while he used them, as well as my own guild member that uses them, and is very experienced, says they are overpowered himself
i made this poll to somewhat gather people that shared my opinion, but for lack of better words, i'm just so surprised to be honest, not only at the reaction i received on this post ( the opposite majority vote i thought i would see )
another thing i really dont understand, is how people say warden sucks? even though its one of the most powerful classes right now, with access to most EVERY major buff, as well as EXCELLENT self healing with the ONLY non cast stamina heal in the game on a class skill line ( not counting vigor ) and people are honestly saying that the class is underpowered? i really dont understand, my BEST character is a mag warden, and has never had any issue doing any content so far
i very rarely post on these forums, but i just feel like..... nevermind, nobody cares anyways
Wow seriously? The best DPS test I've heard of from a Warden is 35k mag 38k stamina, Every other class breaks 40k, with some chasing 50k all self buffed.
They are hands down the undisputed worst PvE DPS class.
Yes Shalks are strong, but they are also clunky. They take 3s to go off, so you have to be planning ahead. They go off in the direction you're pointed, not the direction you're looking, which is a pretty big issue for any gamepad users.
Wardens have exactly 4 DPS skills in any tree, Beetles, Birds, Bees, and Winters Revenge. So for the class to have any chance all , all 4 have to hit hard.
I have no idea how you could claim its one of the most powerful classes? Do you only do solo PvE content? cause thats the only place their "Jack-of-all, master-of-none" is powerful.
People most certainly do care, they care about the whole picture. Which when point out only seems to have opened the QQ gate.
50k self-buffed????
Only I´ve seen 50k+ is warmachine stamblade......
Self buffed
It would appear Stamden are in a better place then I understood. Have a Magden parse? Not even War Machine it would seem very couriows about the build. However I do see Sub is 12% of the DPS coming in behind Endless Hail. Yet the OP wants to nerf a struggling class (even if you aint struggle on it.)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393276/are-warden-beetles-overperforming-overpowered#latest
How many wardens are in raids, especially dps? If the answer is not compareable to other classes, they are not in a good spot pve wise
More stamina Wardens then Mag DKs and Pay to Win. It will be at least another before they risk Wardens at Stam DK level
Edit: Or Magplar either
Also, templars and dks have a spot in raids, wardens lose to dks as tanks and to templars for heals.
Edit: not to mention stamplar and stamdk
Wardens are still BiS off tank, will stay that way as long as their self sustain is supirior.
Never heard of a warden off tank being bis, I thought it was still dk wit warden 2nd due to earthen heart passives, you got a build? Im curious.
Yes, and there are whole forum threads on the subject. War Horn once a minute and Igneous Shield every 4 seconds is need to keep up with Wardens Neteh and Nature's Gift passive. That passive does need an alley to heal once a secous Malough thats easy when you're in the group, harder when solo with adds like vSO Oozo and Serpent.
Warden is absolutely not the BiS off-tank. Check out leader boards and tell me how many wardens you see there.
You're completely out of your element in this thread.
1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »maybe give the bear an aoe dot (but make it a bleed) similar to dawnbreaker....give the bird minor fracture...make one of the netch flyes a stamina dot and give them back the physical damage passive
for magicka maybe make more skilld do frost damage to allow for more synergy there
The biggest buff the bear needs is to not have a summon animation.
The animation currently takes 2 seconds, cannot be cancelled, and interrupts YOU every time the bear dies and automatically re-spawns.
During boss battles with AOE, the bear is dying every few seconds, so you are literally being interrupted to re-summon every few seconds too. The design of this skill is beyond awful.
Every other game solved this problem by making pets immune to aoe damage and I don't see why zos won't implement the same thing. If you build a class around a pet, the pet needs to be just as durable as you are.
lol no
Making pets immune to damage "just because I says so" is a *** poor attitude lol
Pets don't get to ignore ingame mechanics here. And zos has already started going to lengths to improve pets I.E. The recent changes making pets have your active buffs, allowing them to scale off of your max resource for damage.
There were a couple other tweaks. But the warden's pet is fine. Their AI path needs work is all
haha what. a pet is just another skill, it's no different than any other skill or combination of skills besides it's appearance as a pet. just because it looks different doesn't mean it shouldn't be viable in trials.
there is a very good reason pets can stand in red in other games.
Pets give the highest parses in trials so what are you complaining about?
They are not going to get AoE immunity just because you don't like having a pet that dies. It's part of the trade off of having a summonable pet that does damage for you, can CC for you, and creates a Line of sight between you and your opponent or opponents.
Just like every skill in the game, there are checks and balances. Not God mode skyrim buddy
Pets do not necessarily give the highest parses aside from the case of Warden
Pet builds give the highest DPS of any warden build, but they are still the worst DPS build in the game. Magicka warden with bear will still get outparsed by every other class.0 -
FrostFallFox✭✭✭✭Add something to Winters's Revenge like a synergy or debuff or change one of the passives to make chilled enemies to take more damage idk. By themselves, Cliff racer does fine damage, so does fletcher flies and Winters Revenege (slightly more than blosckade but I'm a highelf)\(^-,,-^)/0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »- Swarm is good wear it is, the more enemies, the more OP it is.
Are you serious right now? Growing swarm require a a target to die in order to spread. In any aoe situation, nearly everything dies at the same time, making the spread useless. Also, as far as I can tell, they only spread once, not continually.
Swarm requires 10 seconds to pass, that’s it. Put it on 3 and 10 seoconds later it’s on 18
Gawd it gets so old people QQing when they don’t even know a class.
L2DPS. No trash survives more than 10s. For bosses that are alive more than that, growing swarm does nothing. Even if there are adds, they rarely stay alive long enough for the swarm to spread to them. The other morph is pretty weak, but still a much better option than growing swarm.
Now if it worked more like Templar's Reflective Light it could be interesting, going to 3 targets immediately.
Also clear you don't run trials either
@Maura_Neysa Not sure what part of my statement you are disagreeing with. Are you saying that AoE trash pulls in trials last longer than 10s? I would recommend your group works on its DPS then, because they really should be melting faster than that.
As for large groups, the only scenario I can even think of with more than a dozen enemies is if you do double chain pull in vMoL. And again, they will all be dead before the swarm spreads. Have you completed vMoL?Edited by WrathOfInnos on March 14, 2018 5:51AM1 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Talking of vMoL, Warden is actually better as main tank there, since hitting Shimmering Shield just before the "machine gun" attack will generate ultimate like crazy, but that's about it. At Twins Frozen Gate is much worse than Unrelenting Grip, due to the slow arming time and large radius, because it will attempt to sometime pull the wrong add. For this reason I wouldn't tank the yellow boss on it, unless I used Swarm Mother, but that can be used by any class. DK is so much better there due to another unique skill, Deep Breath - spam that and nobody will die to beams.Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
PC-EU CP 3000+
41,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
Valinor Overflow: Trader
The Traveling Merchant: Silver
Characters:
Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |
Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |
PC-NA CP 1800+
30,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Savage Blade: Majestic Machette
Characters:
Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |0 -
N00BxV1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was leveling my MagDen recently, just minding my own business picking flowers - you know, the usual carebear type of stuff. Well some ~550CP came along and kept trying to initiate a duel with me. I didn't want to fight at first, but then I finally gave in and said "sure, I'll duel you on this level 30 character wearing all blue training gear lol." So we dueled, and I whooped that ass in less than 7 seconds. But they wanted to duel again, probably to see if it was just a fluke, so I agreed and whooped that ass again. Then I pulled out the ol' broom to sweep up the mess, jumped on my horse and headed into the sunset in search of more flowers to pick. I can still taste the salt from their tears today, and it tastes so good.
I'm not sure how MagDen plays in endgame because I haven't played it since leveling to 50, but buffs are never a bad thing.
But I do think that if any class needs a buff (or less nerfs) is the MagDK (PvE). I mean come on... the 3 second cooldown they put on the Power Lash proc is just ***. I've had to turn my MagDK into a tank because their sustain is a joke and really only good for questing and crafting. #MagDKLivesMatter #MakeMagDKGreatAgain #HashBag0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Stam Wardens are in a good place. Capable of chasing 50k solo parse. Mag Wardens though are not nearly as well off. I think a buff tie a dot is what is needed. Not sure how, Winter's Revenge is already strong, same with swarm. I like the idea of a skill like Engulfing would buff Frost. Probably a pipe dream. Still they need something that can add 10k DPS.
What gear? Mundus? 6M? Can that person with the same gear get more on another class?
I am not said person, best I’ve done is 22k on any class, now I skins because I can tank. Either way... what I said is because of the below. I see Kraghs and the Bern makes me think its the War Machine build, however Slayer buffs are not listed. I am on consol though. It is a 3M dummy. Even if it is a Target dummy build though, its respectable and Wardens have to suffer a little or people will start crying "pay to win"Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »wow i really cant believe that responses i'm seeing since
The beetles AOE radius isnt limited to the beetles itself, its also around the player
This ability can not be interrupted because it's an instant cast
it can be extremely easily chained with any other burst ability due to it's actually explosion time
its basically a an extremely large instant cast AOE uppercut, with almost MATCHING damage, but beetles cost less
the stam morph GIVES ALL CAUGHT IN IT major fracture and major breach, and the mag morph stuns one target!
its spammable with all the above mentioned
its hard to dodge, because of the huge AOE radius on each beetle, only easy way to dodge this ability, is by dodging through the player to get behind them when this ability goes off
like i said, i honestly, and truly ( not tryna be jokey ) do not understand, how anyone could tell me they arent overpowered, ( i'm not talking about wardens in general, just the beetles )seeing how i use them myself, and i notice how powerful they are from my own experience, as well as literally EVERYONE i meet ingame that uses them, themselves, says they are overpowered, even a very experienced cyrodiil small scaler himself, said the beetles were overpowered, while he used them, as well as my own guild member that uses them, and is very experienced, says they are overpowered himself
i made this poll to somewhat gather people that shared my opinion, but for lack of better words, i'm just so surprised to be honest, not only at the reaction i received on this post ( the opposite majority vote i thought i would see )
another thing i really dont understand, is how people say warden sucks? even though its one of the most powerful classes right now, with access to most EVERY major buff, as well as EXCELLENT self healing with the ONLY non cast stamina heal in the game on a class skill line ( not counting vigor ) and people are honestly saying that the class is underpowered? i really dont understand, my BEST character is a mag warden, and has never had any issue doing any content so far
i very rarely post on these forums, but i just feel like..... nevermind, nobody cares anyways
Wow seriously? The best DPS test I've heard of from a Warden is 35k mag 38k stamina, Every other class breaks 40k, with some chasing 50k all self buffed.
They are hands down the undisputed worst PvE DPS class.
Yes Shalks are strong, but they are also clunky. They take 3s to go off, so you have to be planning ahead. They go off in the direction you're pointed, not the direction you're looking, which is a pretty big issue for any gamepad users.
Wardens have exactly 4 DPS skills in any tree, Beetles, Birds, Bees, and Winters Revenge. So for the class to have any chance all , all 4 have to hit hard.
I have no idea how you could claim its one of the most powerful classes? Do you only do solo PvE content? cause thats the only place their "Jack-of-all, master-of-none" is powerful.
People most certainly do care, they care about the whole picture. Which when point out only seems to have opened the QQ gate.
50k self-buffed????
Only I´ve seen 50k+ is warmachine stamblade......
Self buffed
It would appear Stamden are in a better place then I understood. Have a Magden parse? Not even War Machine it would seem very couriows about the build. However I do see Sub is 12% of the DPS coming in behind Endless Hail. Yet the OP wants to nerf a struggling class (even if you aint struggle on it.)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393276/are-warden-beetles-overperforming-overpowered#latest
How many wardens are in raids, especially dps? If the answer is not compareable to other classes, they are not in a good spot pve wise
More stamina Wardens then Mag DKs and Pay to Win. It will be at least another before they risk Wardens at Stam DK level
Edit: Or Magplar eitherMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Stam Wardens are in a good place. Capable of chasing 50k solo parse. Mag Wardens though are not nearly as well off. I think a buff tie a dot is what is needed. Not sure how, Winter's Revenge is already strong, same with swarm. I like the idea of a skill like Engulfing would buff Frost. Probably a pipe dream. Still they need something that can add 10k DPS.
What gear? Mundus? 6M? Can that person with the same gear get more on another class?
I am not said person, best I’ve done is 22k on any class, now I skins because I can tank. Either way... what I said is because of the below. I see Kraghs and the Bern makes me think its the War Machine build, however Slayer buffs are not listed. I am on consol though. It is a 3M dummy. Even if it is a Target dummy build though, its respectable and Wardens have to suffer a little or people will start crying "pay to win"Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »wow i really cant believe that responses i'm seeing since
The beetles AOE radius isnt limited to the beetles itself, its also around the player
This ability can not be interrupted because it's an instant cast
it can be extremely easily chained with any other burst ability due to it's actually explosion time
its basically a an extremely large instant cast AOE uppercut, with almost MATCHING damage, but beetles cost less
the stam morph GIVES ALL CAUGHT IN IT major fracture and major breach, and the mag morph stuns one target!
its spammable with all the above mentioned
its hard to dodge, because of the huge AOE radius on each beetle, only easy way to dodge this ability, is by dodging through the player to get behind them when this ability goes off
like i said, i honestly, and truly ( not tryna be jokey ) do not understand, how anyone could tell me they arent overpowered, ( i'm not talking about wardens in general, just the beetles )seeing how i use them myself, and i notice how powerful they are from my own experience, as well as literally EVERYONE i meet ingame that uses them, themselves, says they are overpowered, even a very experienced cyrodiil small scaler himself, said the beetles were overpowered, while he used them, as well as my own guild member that uses them, and is very experienced, says they are overpowered himself
i made this poll to somewhat gather people that shared my opinion, but for lack of better words, i'm just so surprised to be honest, not only at the reaction i received on this post ( the opposite majority vote i thought i would see )
another thing i really dont understand, is how people say warden sucks? even though its one of the most powerful classes right now, with access to most EVERY major buff, as well as EXCELLENT self healing with the ONLY non cast stamina heal in the game on a class skill line ( not counting vigor ) and people are honestly saying that the class is underpowered? i really dont understand, my BEST character is a mag warden, and has never had any issue doing any content so far
i very rarely post on these forums, but i just feel like..... nevermind, nobody cares anyways
Wow seriously? The best DPS test I've heard of from a Warden is 35k mag 38k stamina, Every other class breaks 40k, with some chasing 50k all self buffed.
They are hands down the undisputed worst PvE DPS class.
Yes Shalks are strong, but they are also clunky. They take 3s to go off, so you have to be planning ahead. They go off in the direction you're pointed, not the direction you're looking, which is a pretty big issue for any gamepad users.
Wardens have exactly 4 DPS skills in any tree, Beetles, Birds, Bees, and Winters Revenge. So for the class to have any chance all , all 4 have to hit hard.
I have no idea how you could claim its one of the most powerful classes? Do you only do solo PvE content? cause thats the only place their "Jack-of-all, master-of-none" is powerful.
People most certainly do care, they care about the whole picture. Which when point out only seems to have opened the QQ gate.
50k self-buffed????
Only I´ve seen 50k+ is warmachine stamblade......
Self buffed
It would appear Stamden are in a better place then I understood. Have a Magden parse? Not even War Machine it would seem very couriows about the build. However I do see Sub is 12% of the DPS coming in behind Endless Hail. Yet the OP wants to nerf a struggling class (even if you aint struggle on it.)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393276/are-warden-beetles-overperforming-overpowered#latest
How many wardens are in raids, especially dps? If the answer is not compareable to other classes, they are not in a good spot pve wise
More stamina Wardens then Mag DKs and Pay to Win. It will be at least another before they risk Wardens at Stam DK level
Edit: Or Magplar either
Also, templars and dks have a spot in raids, wardens lose to dks as tanks and to templars for heals.
Edit: not to mention stamplar and stamdk
Wardens are still BiS off tank, will stay that way as long as their self sustain is supirior.
Never heard of a warden off tank being bis, I thought it was still dk wit warden 2nd due to earthen heart passives, you got a build? Im curious.
Yes, and there are whole forum threads on the subject. War Horn once a minute and Igneous Shield every 4 seconds is need to keep up with Wardens Neteh and Nature's Gift passive. That passive does need an alley to heal once a secous Malough thats easy when you're in the group, harder when solo with adds like vSO Oozo and Serpent.
Warden is absolutely not the BiS off-tank. Check out leader boards and tell me how many wardens you see there.
You're completely out of your element in this thread.
Weekly - 3 in the top 100
HRC - 0, highest is 112
AA - 1
SO - 3 (Mine is 469)
vDSA - 4 (Including me at 75)
vMoL - 0, highest is 170
vHoF - 0, higest is 124
vAS - 3
Out of my element? Maybe, if we are talking DPS, then sure as hell am out of my element. Tanking in the other hand, I may just be one of the few who actuallly understand how to Warden tank? They won’t be as common until people stop trying to run DK builds on them. Then again, meta bores the sh*t out of me, so I’m just as happy to see people not catch on.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.1 -
red_emu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can we please have an execute that isn't a thin, short line that fires off after what feels like 30 minutes? I don't care about damage increase, I just want an ability that does %250-%300 more damage to enemy below 25% health... just like near all other classes have.PC - EU:
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Stam Wardens are in a good place. Capable of chasing 50k solo parse. Mag Wardens though are not nearly as well off. I think a buff tie a dot is what is needed. Not sure how, Winter's Revenge is already strong, same with swarm. I like the idea of a skill like Engulfing would buff Frost. Probably a pipe dream. Still they need something that can add 10k DPS.
What gear? Mundus? 6M? Can that person with the same gear get more on another class?
I am not said person, best I’ve done is 22k on any class, now I skins because I can tank. Either way... what I said is because of the below. I see Kraghs and the Bern makes me think its the War Machine build, however Slayer buffs are not listed. I am on consol though. It is a 3M dummy. Even if it is a Target dummy build though, its respectable and Wardens have to suffer a little or people will start crying "pay to win"Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »wow i really cant believe that responses i'm seeing since
The beetles AOE radius isnt limited to the beetles itself, its also around the player
This ability can not be interrupted because it's an instant cast
it can be extremely easily chained with any other burst ability due to it's actually explosion time
its basically a an extremely large instant cast AOE uppercut, with almost MATCHING damage, but beetles cost less
the stam morph GIVES ALL CAUGHT IN IT major fracture and major breach, and the mag morph stuns one target!
its spammable with all the above mentioned
its hard to dodge, because of the huge AOE radius on each beetle, only easy way to dodge this ability, is by dodging through the player to get behind them when this ability goes off
like i said, i honestly, and truly ( not tryna be jokey ) do not understand, how anyone could tell me they arent overpowered, ( i'm not talking about wardens in general, just the beetles )seeing how i use them myself, and i notice how powerful they are from my own experience, as well as literally EVERYONE i meet ingame that uses them, themselves, says they are overpowered, even a very experienced cyrodiil small scaler himself, said the beetles were overpowered, while he used them, as well as my own guild member that uses them, and is very experienced, says they are overpowered himself
i made this poll to somewhat gather people that shared my opinion, but for lack of better words, i'm just so surprised to be honest, not only at the reaction i received on this post ( the opposite majority vote i thought i would see )
another thing i really dont understand, is how people say warden sucks? even though its one of the most powerful classes right now, with access to most EVERY major buff, as well as EXCELLENT self healing with the ONLY non cast stamina heal in the game on a class skill line ( not counting vigor ) and people are honestly saying that the class is underpowered? i really dont understand, my BEST character is a mag warden, and has never had any issue doing any content so far
i very rarely post on these forums, but i just feel like..... nevermind, nobody cares anyways
Wow seriously? The best DPS test I've heard of from a Warden is 35k mag 38k stamina, Every other class breaks 40k, with some chasing 50k all self buffed.
They are hands down the undisputed worst PvE DPS class.
Yes Shalks are strong, but they are also clunky. They take 3s to go off, so you have to be planning ahead. They go off in the direction you're pointed, not the direction you're looking, which is a pretty big issue for any gamepad users.
Wardens have exactly 4 DPS skills in any tree, Beetles, Birds, Bees, and Winters Revenge. So for the class to have any chance all , all 4 have to hit hard.
I have no idea how you could claim its one of the most powerful classes? Do you only do solo PvE content? cause thats the only place their "Jack-of-all, master-of-none" is powerful.
People most certainly do care, they care about the whole picture. Which when point out only seems to have opened the QQ gate.
50k self-buffed????
Only I´ve seen 50k+ is warmachine stamblade......
Self buffed
It would appear Stamden are in a better place then I understood. Have a Magden parse? Not even War Machine it would seem very couriows about the build. However I do see Sub is 12% of the DPS coming in behind Endless Hail. Yet the OP wants to nerf a struggling class (even if you aint struggle on it.)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393276/are-warden-beetles-overperforming-overpowered#latest
How many wardens are in raids, especially dps? If the answer is not compareable to other classes, they are not in a good spot pve wise
More stamina Wardens then Mag DKs and Pay to Win. It will be at least another before they risk Wardens at Stam DK level
Edit: Or Magplar eitherMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Stam Wardens are in a good place. Capable of chasing 50k solo parse. Mag Wardens though are not nearly as well off. I think a buff tie a dot is what is needed. Not sure how, Winter's Revenge is already strong, same with swarm. I like the idea of a skill like Engulfing would buff Frost. Probably a pipe dream. Still they need something that can add 10k DPS.
What gear? Mundus? 6M? Can that person with the same gear get more on another class?
I am not said person, best I’ve done is 22k on any class, now I skins because I can tank. Either way... what I said is because of the below. I see Kraghs and the Bern makes me think its the War Machine build, however Slayer buffs are not listed. I am on consol though. It is a 3M dummy. Even if it is a Target dummy build though, its respectable and Wardens have to suffer a little or people will start crying "pay to win"Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »wow i really cant believe that responses i'm seeing since
The beetles AOE radius isnt limited to the beetles itself, its also around the player
This ability can not be interrupted because it's an instant cast
it can be extremely easily chained with any other burst ability due to it's actually explosion time
its basically a an extremely large instant cast AOE uppercut, with almost MATCHING damage, but beetles cost less
the stam morph GIVES ALL CAUGHT IN IT major fracture and major breach, and the mag morph stuns one target!
its spammable with all the above mentioned
its hard to dodge, because of the huge AOE radius on each beetle, only easy way to dodge this ability, is by dodging through the player to get behind them when this ability goes off
like i said, i honestly, and truly ( not tryna be jokey ) do not understand, how anyone could tell me they arent overpowered, ( i'm not talking about wardens in general, just the beetles )seeing how i use them myself, and i notice how powerful they are from my own experience, as well as literally EVERYONE i meet ingame that uses them, themselves, says they are overpowered, even a very experienced cyrodiil small scaler himself, said the beetles were overpowered, while he used them, as well as my own guild member that uses them, and is very experienced, says they are overpowered himself
i made this poll to somewhat gather people that shared my opinion, but for lack of better words, i'm just so surprised to be honest, not only at the reaction i received on this post ( the opposite majority vote i thought i would see )
another thing i really dont understand, is how people say warden sucks? even though its one of the most powerful classes right now, with access to most EVERY major buff, as well as EXCELLENT self healing with the ONLY non cast stamina heal in the game on a class skill line ( not counting vigor ) and people are honestly saying that the class is underpowered? i really dont understand, my BEST character is a mag warden, and has never had any issue doing any content so far
i very rarely post on these forums, but i just feel like..... nevermind, nobody cares anyways
Wow seriously? The best DPS test I've heard of from a Warden is 35k mag 38k stamina, Every other class breaks 40k, with some chasing 50k all self buffed.
They are hands down the undisputed worst PvE DPS class.
Yes Shalks are strong, but they are also clunky. They take 3s to go off, so you have to be planning ahead. They go off in the direction you're pointed, not the direction you're looking, which is a pretty big issue for any gamepad users.
Wardens have exactly 4 DPS skills in any tree, Beetles, Birds, Bees, and Winters Revenge. So for the class to have any chance all , all 4 have to hit hard.
I have no idea how you could claim its one of the most powerful classes? Do you only do solo PvE content? cause thats the only place their "Jack-of-all, master-of-none" is powerful.
People most certainly do care, they care about the whole picture. Which when point out only seems to have opened the QQ gate.
50k self-buffed????
Only I´ve seen 50k+ is warmachine stamblade......
Self buffed
It would appear Stamden are in a better place then I understood. Have a Magden parse? Not even War Machine it would seem very couriows about the build. However I do see Sub is 12% of the DPS coming in behind Endless Hail. Yet the OP wants to nerf a struggling class (even if you aint struggle on it.)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393276/are-warden-beetles-overperforming-overpowered#latest
How many wardens are in raids, especially dps? If the answer is not compareable to other classes, they are not in a good spot pve wise
More stamina Wardens then Mag DKs and Pay to Win. It will be at least another before they risk Wardens at Stam DK level
Edit: Or Magplar either
Also, templars and dks have a spot in raids, wardens lose to dks as tanks and to templars for heals.
Edit: not to mention stamplar and stamdk
Wardens are still BiS off tank, will stay that way as long as their self sustain is supirior.
Never heard of a warden off tank being bis, I thought it was still dk wit warden 2nd due to earthen heart passives, you got a build? Im curious.
Yes, and there are whole forum threads on the subject. War Horn once a minute and Igneous Shield every 4 seconds is need to keep up with Wardens Neteh and Nature's Gift passive. That passive does need an alley to heal once a secous Malough thats easy when you're in the group, harder when solo with adds like vSO Oozo and Serpent.
Warden is absolutely not the BiS off-tank. Check out leader boards and tell me how many wardens you see there.
You're completely out of your element in this thread.
Weekly - 3 in the top 100
HRC - 0, highest is 112
AA - 1
SO - 3 (Mine is 469)
vDSA - 4 (Including me at 75)
vMoL - 0, highest is 170
vHoF - 0, higest is 124
vAS - 3
Out of my element? Maybe, if we are talking DPS, then sure as hell am out of my element. Tanking in the other hand, I may just be one of the few who actuallly understand how to Warden tank? They won’t be as common until people stop trying to run DK builds on them. Then again, meta bores the sh*t out of me, so I’m just as happy to see people not catch on.
They won't be more common until they actually start outperforming DK tanks.
1 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Stam Wardens are in a good place. Capable of chasing 50k solo parse. Mag Wardens though are not nearly as well off. I think a buff tie a dot is what is needed. Not sure how, Winter's Revenge is already strong, same with swarm. I like the idea of a skill like Engulfing would buff Frost. Probably a pipe dream. Still they need something that can add 10k DPS.
What gear? Mundus? 6M? Can that person with the same gear get more on another class?
I am not said person, best I’ve done is 22k on any class, now I skins because I can tank. Either way... what I said is because of the below. I see Kraghs and the Bern makes me think its the War Machine build, however Slayer buffs are not listed. I am on consol though. It is a 3M dummy. Even if it is a Target dummy build though, its respectable and Wardens have to suffer a little or people will start crying "pay to win"Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »wow i really cant believe that responses i'm seeing since
The beetles AOE radius isnt limited to the beetles itself, its also around the player
This ability can not be interrupted because it's an instant cast
it can be extremely easily chained with any other burst ability due to it's actually explosion time
its basically a an extremely large instant cast AOE uppercut, with almost MATCHING damage, but beetles cost less
the stam morph GIVES ALL CAUGHT IN IT major fracture and major breach, and the mag morph stuns one target!
its spammable with all the above mentioned
its hard to dodge, because of the huge AOE radius on each beetle, only easy way to dodge this ability, is by dodging through the player to get behind them when this ability goes off
like i said, i honestly, and truly ( not tryna be jokey ) do not understand, how anyone could tell me they arent overpowered, ( i'm not talking about wardens in general, just the beetles )seeing how i use them myself, and i notice how powerful they are from my own experience, as well as literally EVERYONE i meet ingame that uses them, themselves, says they are overpowered, even a very experienced cyrodiil small scaler himself, said the beetles were overpowered, while he used them, as well as my own guild member that uses them, and is very experienced, says they are overpowered himself
i made this poll to somewhat gather people that shared my opinion, but for lack of better words, i'm just so surprised to be honest, not only at the reaction i received on this post ( the opposite majority vote i thought i would see )
another thing i really dont understand, is how people say warden sucks? even though its one of the most powerful classes right now, with access to most EVERY major buff, as well as EXCELLENT self healing with the ONLY non cast stamina heal in the game on a class skill line ( not counting vigor ) and people are honestly saying that the class is underpowered? i really dont understand, my BEST character is a mag warden, and has never had any issue doing any content so far
i very rarely post on these forums, but i just feel like..... nevermind, nobody cares anyways
Wow seriously? The best DPS test I've heard of from a Warden is 35k mag 38k stamina, Every other class breaks 40k, with some chasing 50k all self buffed.
They are hands down the undisputed worst PvE DPS class.
Yes Shalks are strong, but they are also clunky. They take 3s to go off, so you have to be planning ahead. They go off in the direction you're pointed, not the direction you're looking, which is a pretty big issue for any gamepad users.
Wardens have exactly 4 DPS skills in any tree, Beetles, Birds, Bees, and Winters Revenge. So for the class to have any chance all , all 4 have to hit hard.
I have no idea how you could claim its one of the most powerful classes? Do you only do solo PvE content? cause thats the only place their "Jack-of-all, master-of-none" is powerful.
People most certainly do care, they care about the whole picture. Which when point out only seems to have opened the QQ gate.
50k self-buffed????
Only I´ve seen 50k+ is warmachine stamblade......
Self buffed
It would appear Stamden are in a better place then I understood. Have a Magden parse? Not even War Machine it would seem very couriows about the build. However I do see Sub is 12% of the DPS coming in behind Endless Hail. Yet the OP wants to nerf a struggling class (even if you aint struggle on it.)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393276/are-warden-beetles-overperforming-overpowered#latest
How many wardens are in raids, especially dps? If the answer is not compareable to other classes, they are not in a good spot pve wise
More stamina Wardens then Mag DKs and Pay to Win. It will be at least another before they risk Wardens at Stam DK level
Edit: Or Magplar eitherMaura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Stam Wardens are in a good place. Capable of chasing 50k solo parse. Mag Wardens though are not nearly as well off. I think a buff tie a dot is what is needed. Not sure how, Winter's Revenge is already strong, same with swarm. I like the idea of a skill like Engulfing would buff Frost. Probably a pipe dream. Still they need something that can add 10k DPS.
What gear? Mundus? 6M? Can that person with the same gear get more on another class?
I am not said person, best I’ve done is 22k on any class, now I skins because I can tank. Either way... what I said is because of the below. I see Kraghs and the Bern makes me think its the War Machine build, however Slayer buffs are not listed. I am on consol though. It is a 3M dummy. Even if it is a Target dummy build though, its respectable and Wardens have to suffer a little or people will start crying "pay to win"Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »wow i really cant believe that responses i'm seeing since
The beetles AOE radius isnt limited to the beetles itself, its also around the player
This ability can not be interrupted because it's an instant cast
it can be extremely easily chained with any other burst ability due to it's actually explosion time
its basically a an extremely large instant cast AOE uppercut, with almost MATCHING damage, but beetles cost less
the stam morph GIVES ALL CAUGHT IN IT major fracture and major breach, and the mag morph stuns one target!
its spammable with all the above mentioned
its hard to dodge, because of the huge AOE radius on each beetle, only easy way to dodge this ability, is by dodging through the player to get behind them when this ability goes off
like i said, i honestly, and truly ( not tryna be jokey ) do not understand, how anyone could tell me they arent overpowered, ( i'm not talking about wardens in general, just the beetles )seeing how i use them myself, and i notice how powerful they are from my own experience, as well as literally EVERYONE i meet ingame that uses them, themselves, says they are overpowered, even a very experienced cyrodiil small scaler himself, said the beetles were overpowered, while he used them, as well as my own guild member that uses them, and is very experienced, says they are overpowered himself
i made this poll to somewhat gather people that shared my opinion, but for lack of better words, i'm just so surprised to be honest, not only at the reaction i received on this post ( the opposite majority vote i thought i would see )
another thing i really dont understand, is how people say warden sucks? even though its one of the most powerful classes right now, with access to most EVERY major buff, as well as EXCELLENT self healing with the ONLY non cast stamina heal in the game on a class skill line ( not counting vigor ) and people are honestly saying that the class is underpowered? i really dont understand, my BEST character is a mag warden, and has never had any issue doing any content so far
i very rarely post on these forums, but i just feel like..... nevermind, nobody cares anyways
Wow seriously? The best DPS test I've heard of from a Warden is 35k mag 38k stamina, Every other class breaks 40k, with some chasing 50k all self buffed.
They are hands down the undisputed worst PvE DPS class.
Yes Shalks are strong, but they are also clunky. They take 3s to go off, so you have to be planning ahead. They go off in the direction you're pointed, not the direction you're looking, which is a pretty big issue for any gamepad users.
Wardens have exactly 4 DPS skills in any tree, Beetles, Birds, Bees, and Winters Revenge. So for the class to have any chance all , all 4 have to hit hard.
I have no idea how you could claim its one of the most powerful classes? Do you only do solo PvE content? cause thats the only place their "Jack-of-all, master-of-none" is powerful.
People most certainly do care, they care about the whole picture. Which when point out only seems to have opened the QQ gate.
50k self-buffed????
Only I´ve seen 50k+ is warmachine stamblade......
Self buffed
It would appear Stamden are in a better place then I understood. Have a Magden parse? Not even War Machine it would seem very couriows about the build. However I do see Sub is 12% of the DPS coming in behind Endless Hail. Yet the OP wants to nerf a struggling class (even if you aint struggle on it.)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393276/are-warden-beetles-overperforming-overpowered#latest
How many wardens are in raids, especially dps? If the answer is not compareable to other classes, they are not in a good spot pve wise
More stamina Wardens then Mag DKs and Pay to Win. It will be at least another before they risk Wardens at Stam DK level
Edit: Or Magplar either
Also, templars and dks have a spot in raids, wardens lose to dks as tanks and to templars for heals.
Edit: not to mention stamplar and stamdk
Wardens are still BiS off tank, will stay that way as long as their self sustain is supirior.
Never heard of a warden off tank being bis, I thought it was still dk wit warden 2nd due to earthen heart passives, you got a build? Im curious.
Yes, and there are whole forum threads on the subject. War Horn once a minute and Igneous Shield every 4 seconds is need to keep up with Wardens Neteh and Nature's Gift passive. That passive does need an alley to heal once a secous Malough thats easy when you're in the group, harder when solo with adds like vSO Oozo and Serpent.
Warden is absolutely not the BiS off-tank. Check out leader boards and tell me how many wardens you see there.
You're completely out of your element in this thread.
Weekly - 3 in the top 100
HRC - 0, highest is 112
AA - 1
SO - 3 (Mine is 469)
vDSA - 4 (Including me at 75)
vMoL - 0, highest is 170
vHoF - 0, higest is 124
vAS - 3
Out of my element? Maybe, if we are talking DPS, then sure as hell am out of my element. Tanking in the other hand, I may just be one of the few who actuallly understand how to Warden tank? They won’t be as common until people stop trying to run DK builds on them. Then again, meta bores the sh*t out of me, so I’m just as happy to see people not catch on.
They won't be more common until they actually start outperforming DK tanks.
Better resource sustain, better maim uptime, better CC uptime . The only place DK out performs is taking a hit. That is also the reason they hold on to top Main Tank.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.1 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭The biggest problem with the warden is delayed-reaction skills and the fact the "pet" takes up an ult slot...until those are fixed I would never use the warden as a DPS...makes for a decent tank or healer, but I cant stand playing warden as DPS...it is not fun.0 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you want to Buff Warden for PVE, then they have to buff alot of other classes also...
StamDK in PVP .... Mag DK in PVE ... Magplar in PVE.
Then we can talk, however always wanting stuff like, buff this buff this, but other things shouldnt get balanced, or nerfed just cause you want it is a bad habit ppl have in this game.
Do nothing, and get everything isnt how this works.
You want a strong class in PVE pick one that is, Magblade for example.
Youn want something thats strong in PVP, play MagDK or Warden.
Edited by SaintSubwayy on March 14, 2018 4:04PMPC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The biggest problem with the warden is delayed-reaction skills and the fact the "pet" takes up an ult slot...until those are fixed I would never use the warden as a DPS...makes for a decent tank or healer, but I cant stand playing warden as DPS...it is not fun.
The pet doesn't just take up an ult slot. It takes up BOTH ult slots!1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »If you want to Buff Warden for PVE, then they have to buff alot of other classes also...
StamDK in PVP .... Mag DK in PVE ... Magplar in PVE.
Then we can talk, however always wanting stuff like, buff this buff this, but other things shouldnt get balanced, or nerfed just cause you want it is a bad habit ppl have in this game.
Do nothing, and get everything isnt how this works.
You want a strong class in PVE pick one that is, Magblade for example.
Youn want something thats strong in PVP, play MagDK or Warden.
Every class is supposed to be viable in PvE. Templar and DK already outperform warden in both DPS and one of tanking or healng in PvE. Warden is bottom of the barrel for DPS.
Also, PvP performance has nothing to do with PvE. They are completely unrelated modes. You need to understand this.Edited by MLGProPlayer on March 14, 2018 8:45PM0 -
Peekachu99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stamina Wardens
While not my primary or main toon, I have played on my warden a fair amount. The class is clumsy and somewhat irritating when it comes to a sustained damage rotation (pve). That being said, there are some aspects of the Warden that make it OP, even in pve .
Warden in PVE
What I have come to realize is that the warden is the only class in the game that comes with a set of built-in training wheels, making it a great choice for many new players. The problem with training wheels is that the longer you use them, the more dependent on them you become. One of the bigger problems for newer players playing the warden, is that the class is not set up to teach or encourage newer players to 'stand on their own two feet' in a dps role. It doesn't offer skills/passives that newer players can use to learn meaningful (direct damage) melee combat skills, nor does it offer the skills/passives needed for meaningful AOE combat. Let's face it, you are kinda gimped when it comes to a pve-dps rotation when your main damage skills consist of a bird, a bear, and a few under-ground shalks.
Suggestion: Change the shalks from a 3-second delay to a 1-second delay as well as reducing damage done 'per cast' to compensate for the increased uptime. Also, get rid of the flying mosquitos and replace that skill with an effective melee damage skill ... one that is reasonable to use in a pve-dps rotation.
Stamina warden OP in vanilla pve content - it's too easy to keep up multiples shields while blocking and at the same time inflicting some rather hefty burst damage. The warden's skill line encourages this type of play style ... people simply end up doing the best they can with what they have. Unfortunately, this type of play style doesn't lend itself to the more difficult pve content ESO has to offer. So what happens then? Anger, frustration, issues when trying to group? Wardens deserve their 'place in the game' to be somewhere other than the Imperial City sewers.
Warden in PVP
Then there were the players who understood many of the game mechanics before playing a warden. Putting the warden in their hands was like putting the key to the candy store in the hands of a kid. The way they used the warden wasn't just OP ... it was more like 'OP on steroids'. Once that warden OP-PVP-Zerg train started, there was no turning back. Even relatively under-experienced pvp'ers are now being taught how to achieve OP results with the warden.
Suggestion: Change corrupting pollen from inflicting major defile to inflicting minor defile AND get rid of the healing component of that morph. The player needs to make a choice ... they either choose the morph that heals the player/allies OR they choose the morph that de-buffs enemies. Given everything else that occurs in Cyrodiil, having 1 skill that acts as both an AOE heal to allies while at the same time an AOE heal-debuff to enemies is OP.
Sorcs aren't the only shield stackers ... the warden class can do that too (leaching vines + frost cloak + crystallized shield). Yea, yea, leaching vines ... lowest health ally in front of you. The problem is the 'in front of you' part - it is too easy to get around that when you want the vines to apply to yourself.
Suggestion: Get rid of the 'in front of you' language. Have leaching vines be cast on the lowest health ally within 8 meters of the player. While this suggestion won't stop shield stacking, it should make it more difficult for wardens to stack all 3 shields. (note: the problem isn't a stray warden who has wondered away from their group ... it's the shield-stacking wardens who are with their group doing their non-stop healing/debuffing that is more of a problem).
No to everything. Also Leeching Vines and Frost Cloak are buffs, not shields. Few things annoy me more than people who don’t understand basic mechanics and classifications making suggestions on theorycrafting and game design.1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
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Stamina warden OP in vanilla pve content - it's too easy to keep up multiples shields while blocking and at the same time inflicting some rather hefty burst damage. The warden's skill line encourages this type of play style ... people simply end up doing the best they can with what they have. Unfortunately, this type of play style doesn't lend itself to the more difficult pve content ESO has to offer. So what happens then? Anger, frustration, issues when trying to group? Wardens deserve their 'place in the game' to be somewhere other than the Imperial City sewers.
Stamina classes don't have shields.Edited by MLGProPlayer on March 14, 2018 10:38PM0 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Peekachu99 wrote: »Stamina Wardens
While not my primary or main toon, I have played on my warden a fair amount. The class is clumsy and somewhat irritating when it comes to a sustained damage rotation (pve). That being said, there are some aspects of the Warden that make it OP, even in pve .
Warden in PVE
What I have come to realize is that the warden is the only class in the game that comes with a set of built-in training wheels, making it a great choice for many new players. The problem with training wheels is that the longer you use them, the more dependent on them you become. One of the bigger problems for newer players playing the warden, is that the class is not set up to teach or encourage newer players to 'stand on their own two feet' in a dps role. It doesn't offer skills/passives that newer players can use to learn meaningful (direct damage) melee combat skills, nor does it offer the skills/passives needed for meaningful AOE combat. Let's face it, you are kinda gimped when it comes to a pve-dps rotation when your main damage skills consist of a bird, a bear, and a few under-ground shalks.
Suggestion: Change the shalks from a 3-second delay to a 1-second delay as well as reducing damage done 'per cast' to compensate for the increased uptime. Also, get rid of the flying mosquitos and replace that skill with an effective melee damage skill ... one that is reasonable to use in a pve-dps rotation.
Stamina warden OP in vanilla pve content - it's too easy to keep up multiples shields while blocking and at the same time inflicting some rather hefty burst damage. The warden's skill line encourages this type of play style ... people simply end up doing the best they can with what they have. Unfortunately, this type of play style doesn't lend itself to the more difficult pve content ESO has to offer. So what happens then? Anger, frustration, issues when trying to group? Wardens deserve their 'place in the game' to be somewhere other than the Imperial City sewers.
Warden in PVP
Then there were the players who understood many of the game mechanics before playing a warden. Putting the warden in their hands was like putting the key to the candy store in the hands of a kid. The way they used the warden wasn't just OP ... it was more like 'OP on steroids'. Once that warden OP-PVP-Zerg train started, there was no turning back. Even relatively under-experienced pvp'ers are now being taught how to achieve OP results with the warden.
Suggestion: Change corrupting pollen from inflicting major defile to inflicting minor defile AND get rid of the healing component of that morph. The player needs to make a choice ... they either choose the morph that heals the player/allies OR they choose the morph that de-buffs enemies. Given everything else that occurs in Cyrodiil, having 1 skill that acts as both an AOE heal to allies while at the same time an AOE heal-debuff to enemies is OP.
Sorcs aren't the only shield stackers ... the warden class can do that too (leaching vines + frost cloak + crystallized shield). Yea, yea, leaching vines ... lowest health ally in front of you. The problem is the 'in front of you' part - it is too easy to get around that when you want the vines to apply to yourself.
Suggestion: Get rid of the 'in front of you' language. Have leaching vines be cast on the lowest health ally within 8 meters of the player. While this suggestion won't stop shield stacking, it should make it more difficult for wardens to stack all 3 shields. (note: the problem isn't a stray warden who has wondered away from their group ... it's the shield-stacking wardens who are with their group doing their non-stop healing/debuffing that is more of a problem).
No to everything. Also Leeching Vines and Frost Cloak are buffs, not shields. Few things annoy me more than people who don’t understand basic mechanics and classifications making suggestions on theorycrafting and game design.
Rest assured, I am well aware that, technically speaking, this game classifies a shield as something that either reflects or absorbs damage. If this had been a discussion about the technical mechanics of damage mitigation, I would not have used the term 'shield stacking' in a figurative manner.
The topic of this discussion centered on whether the warden should be buffed (or nerfed), a topic that made it necessary to look at where the warden is over-performing and/or under-performing. In this context, part of my comments focused on wardens stacking: 1.) leeching vines (heals target each time they take damage ... and applies minor life steal), 2.) frost cloak (major resolve and major ward .... plus minor protection IF the ice fortress morph is chosen), and 3.) crystallized shield (absorbs up to 3 projectiles). Stacking all three makes the warden rather impervious to quite a lot of damage.
Keep in mind that each of these three skills accomplishes the same thing ... they each: increase the warden's survivability/make the warden more difficult to kill. Individually, each skill is not OP. The problem is when they are stacked ... stacking 2 is bad enough, but when all 3 are stacked the result is OP. (I haven't even touched on wardens who stack all 3 while also equipping a SnB)
In all fairness, I suppose I could have called this problem skill stacking, but that term does nothing to help the reader understand what the problem is or why it's OP.
So, I chose the term 'shield stacking' ... it was simply a matter of semantics, not technicalities.
What do you think most people (playing this game) would think of when hearing (reading) the words 'shield stacking'
Choose one:
Option A: Most would probably think of mathematical equations or complex formulas that factor in damage mitigated before and after the damage shield takes damage or the interplay between various forms of damage mitigation and champion points.
Option B: Most people would probably think of pvp'ers (usually sorcs) who are extremely difficult, if not impossible to kill because they (usually sorcs) are constantly casting shields on themselves which means they take no damage (or very little damage) no matter how hard or how many times they get hit.If you chose Option A: If you really enjoy math and are a bit of a "math wiz," you may have chosen this answer. Good for you for having a math brain! Unfortunately, your answer is wrong.
If you chose Option B: If you chose this answer you probably enjoy being social (in-person or on-line) and it's very likely you possess a heightened ability to empathize with others. Hooray, your answer is correct!
I apologize if my choice of semantics 'shield-stacking' gave you cause for discomfort. I assure you, I know quite a lot about this game, much more than I let on. In future posts, I will be sure to clarify when I use the term 'shield-stacking' in a semantical way ... so the reader knows to interpret the term as a figure of speech intended to help illustrate a point.0 -
Leogon✭✭✭✭✭
✭They need to make changes to the skills and passives to make them stronger in PvE but weaker in PvP.0