TOP tank sets

cbdfarm

Its called the infinite loading screen set. BIS.
Its 5 piece special is you get an infinite loading screen this way you can never be killed. OP to the max. ZOS said they would fix it, but you know its never gonna happen, gonna be the BIS for awhile.

code65536

Every time one of these what-gear-should-I-use-for-tanking threads come up, you see a lot of sets get mentioned that are "selfish" sets--i.e., sets designed to help a tank's survivability or resource management.

Hist Bark, Armor Master, Fortified Brass, Plague Doctor, Green Pact, Seducer, etc. All sets that help the tank, but offer nothing to the group.

Selfish sets are not bad, per se--in some fights, selfish sets are recommended or even required (most notably, the axe tank in vAA should wear selfish gear so that they can keep using War Horns instead of a defensive ult, and Reactive Armor is required for surviving a certain mechanics combo on vHoF boss 2), and when you're learning new content, selfish sets can help ease the pain of the learning curve (I used Plague and Seducer when I was learning to tank vHoF boss 4).

Ultimately, though, the tank's role is a support role, and being able to offer support to the group--particularly offensive support--is very valuable. So while selfish sets are good for someone who's learning new content, they are something that people should eventually try to move away from once they get comfortable with what they're doing. You want just enough survival to stay alive, and devote everything else to group utility.

For 4-man content, like vet DLC dungeons, if you're familiar with the fights, you can tank every one of them in pure support gear like Ebon/Alkosh. Or Ebon/Torug if you prefer to be a little more tanky or if Alkosh is too difficult to acquire.

Deep_01

5x Werewolf Hide (Body pieces only) 2x Monster sets (Bloodspawn, Scourge Harvester, Rkhugamaz, Lord Warden) 2x Maelstrom S&B front bar and 5x Powerful Assault (3 jewels and S&B back bar). Sturdy on small and infused on big. I have heavy histbark, plauge doc and ebon in inv for backup, to replace werewolf hide for tough bosses like (no death or HM) vRoM last boss etc.

Only for 4-player content. I don't do 12-player content.

generalmyrick

code65536 wrote: »

Every time one of these what-gear-should-I-use-for-tanking threads come up, you see a lot of sets get mentioned that are "selfish" sets--i.e., sets designed to help a tank's survivability or resource management.

Hist Bark, Armor Master, Fortified Brass, Plague Doctor, Green Pact, Seducer, etc. All sets that help the tank, but offer nothing to the group.

Selfish sets are not bad, per se--in some fights, selfish sets are recommended or even required (most notably, the axe tank in vAA should wear selfish gear so that they can keep using War Horns instead of a defensive ult, and Reactive Armor is required for surviving a certain mechanics combo on vHoF boss 2), and when you're learning new content, selfish sets can help ease the pain of the learning curve (I used Plague and Seducer when I was learning to tank vHoF boss 4).

Ultimately, though, the tank's role is a support role, and being able to offer support to the group--particularly offensive support--is very valuable. So while selfish sets are good for someone who's learning new content, they are something that people should eventually try to move away from once they get comfortable with what they're doing. You want just enough survival to stay alive, and devote everything else to group utility.

For 4-man content, like vet DLC dungeons, if you're familiar with the fights, you can tank every one of them in pure support gear like Ebon/Alkosh. Or Ebon/Torug if you prefer to be a little more tanky or if Alkosh is too difficult to acquire.

my teamwork build =

IMPERIUM + BECKONING STEEL + LORD WARDEN = i love it...i soak up damage, give shields and resist to the group! :-)

AgentofKhaoss

paulsimonps wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lupusdiabolus wrote: »

Torugs Pact.
Tavas Favour
Histbark
These are all good craftable tank Sets. Common is actually Torugs

Tanks use Torug’s Pact? For real? I thought it was mainly a set used on damage dealing characters for the 2pcs. set bonus. Very interesting... I suppose ya learn something new every day.

That used to be the case a while back, but with the buff to it and the nerf to Sharpened and other penetration sources its buff and up time increase of Crusher became on par with that of Alkosh, and at the moment it has significantly higher up time, 98% ish if done right while Alkosh is struggling cause Synergies are a PitA, though Alkosh does have the pro of being an AoE that can effect multiple targets. As well not sure I have seen a mag DPS use Torug's 2 piece for a very long time. 3-4p bonuses with stuff like Willpower or Moondancer as well that Maelstrom/Asylum has taken that place with Monster sets as well. So lots better options than a 2p out there now.

I'm assuming that it's a Magika tank using Torugs. It doesn't have any place on a Stam tank or even a Hybrid.

AgentofKhaoss

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

I'm currently running a nightblade tank that works very well, and I'm not using any of the sets listed here except fortified brass. I could never imagine using Torug's, that set just looks like straight trash to me.

Argonian
5x Lunar Bastion
5x Fortified Brass
Shadowrend monster set (until I can finally complete V Mazzatun and get mighty chudan)

I play as a sap-tank, with twin shades and other utility things on my backbar. I am basically immortal, and I constantly see my shades' minor maim debuff saving my team from otherwise fatal damage.

Well you say Torug's is trash but there is a reason its one of the favored sets of many end game Trial groups. It can give you a 100% up time on both Crusher and Weakening on the bosses and not only that but also make both enchantments stronger, this is obviously combined with Infused weapons. It adds a lot of utility to the group, both in defense and offense.

The sets you are using are all defensive, and one is only for yourself, and you are planning a 2nd with your monster set. No offensive capability and the defensive bonus of Lunar Bastion is very limited. You lack offensive utility, something that is really useful in Dungeons and Trials. In dungeons you really do not have to be tanky at all, better to go with all utility sets. And in many of the Trials you can do the same. And then on boss fights that require a bit more defense for yourself you can swap the gear out. For example I swap my Torug's or Alkosh with Plague for when I fight Olms in Veteran Asylum, but when I do dungeons I go with my offensive stuff.

As well Minor Main is more commonly applied by Heroic Slash, a skill you really should be using anyway, so Shades is over doing it, especially considering you are also wearing Shadowrend. The ultigen combined with Minor Maim makes Heroic Slash a must have skill for Tanks, making shades useless. Never use them on my Nightblade Tank.

Your Nightblade Tank sounds pretty good. I just don't see how you use Torugs. Are you a heavy armor Magika build? Wouldn't Rattlecage be better?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lupusdiabolus wrote: »

Torugs Pact.
Tavas Favour
Histbark
These are all good craftable tank Sets. Common is actually Torugs

Tanks use Torug’s Pact? For real? I thought it was mainly a set used on damage dealing characters for the 2pcs. set bonus. Very interesting... I suppose ya learn something new every day.

That used to be the case a while back, but with the buff to it and the nerf to Sharpened and other penetration sources its buff and up time increase of Crusher became on par with that of Alkosh, and at the moment it has significantly higher up time, 98% ish if done right while Alkosh is struggling cause Synergies are a PitA, though Alkosh does have the pro of being an AoE that can effect multiple targets. As well not sure I have seen a mag DPS use Torug's 2 piece for a very long time. 3-4p bonuses with stuff like Willpower or Moondancer as well that Maelstrom/Asylum has taken that place with Monster sets as well. So lots better options than a 2p out there now.

I'm assuming that it's a Magika tank using Torugs. It doesn't have any place on a Stam tank or even a Hybrid.

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

I'm currently running a nightblade tank that works very well, and I'm not using any of the sets listed here except fortified brass. I could never imagine using Torug's, that set just looks like straight trash to me.

Argonian
5x Lunar Bastion
5x Fortified Brass
Shadowrend monster set (until I can finally complete V Mazzatun and get mighty chudan)

I play as a sap-tank, with twin shades and other utility things on my backbar. I am basically immortal, and I constantly see my shades' minor maim debuff saving my team from otherwise fatal damage.

Well you say Torug's is trash but there is a reason its one of the favored sets of many end game Trial groups. It can give you a 100% up time on both Crusher and Weakening on the bosses and not only that but also make both enchantments stronger, this is obviously combined with Infused weapons. It adds a lot of utility to the group, both in defense and offense.

The sets you are using are all defensive, and one is only for yourself, and you are planning a 2nd with your monster set. No offensive capability and the defensive bonus of Lunar Bastion is very limited. You lack offensive utility, something that is really useful in Dungeons and Trials. In dungeons you really do not have to be tanky at all, better to go with all utility sets. And in many of the Trials you can do the same. And then on boss fights that require a bit more defense for yourself you can swap the gear out. For example I swap my Torug's or Alkosh with Plague for when I fight Olms in Veteran Asylum, but when I do dungeons I go with my offensive stuff.

As well Minor Main is more commonly applied by Heroic Slash, a skill you really should be using anyway, so Shades is over doing it, especially considering you are also wearing Shadowrend. The ultigen combined with Minor Maim makes Heroic Slash a must have skill for Tanks, making shades useless. Never use them on my Nightblade Tank.

Your Nightblade Tank sounds pretty good. I just don't see how you use Torugs. Are you a heavy armor Magika build? Wouldn't Rattlecage be better?

Tanks can get away with pretty much any 2-4 piece bonuses, it is all about the five piece and torags is an insane boost to your teammates dps, up to like 3k armor removed, so that is like a straight 6% boost to your teammates dps and with Pierce armor( the main taunt in the game and if you don't use this, you better have a good reason why) is removing upwards of 8.5k armor every time you taunt and there is no single person over taunt in the game any more so no real reason to not taunt as much as your Stam can handle it.



Rattlecage is straight garbage. For everyone.

idk

Hibiki54 wrote: »

Mainly Torugs.

Most of the best tanking sets are from dungeons, trials or overland sets. Torugs is mainly used to buff your weapon crusher enchantment for more penetration and uptime.

Torugs for the MT mostly. At least one tank wearing Ebon. If DPS are not using Alkosh it is good for the MT to wear.

Plague Doctor is good for the higher damage fights like vHoF and vAS. A number of tanks that have become good at avoiding the damage in those fights have ceased wearing this set.

Monster helms vary. For more magicka regen one piece Chockthorn and one piece Shadowrend. Otherwise Lord Warden if melee will be near you. Blood Spawn for ult regen but that is really not needed since it is better to keep a good WH rotation amongst the tanks and healers and has a low up time for the resistance buff.

For any of this, it would pertain to all classes since the idea is to help the group with survival and improve their damage done.

code65536

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

I'm assuming that it's a Magika tank using Torugs. It doesn't have any place on a Stam tank or even a Hybrid.

Ignore the Torug 2p bonus. It's all about the 5p bonus. It's not unlike how tanks use Alkosh--the 3p Minor Slayer on Alkosh is completely wasted on a tank, much like the 2p bonus on Torug. But we don't care about that, because the 5p bonus is why we use those two sets.

generalmyrick wrote: »

IMPERIUM + BECKONING STEEL + LORD WARDEN = i love it...i soak up damage, give shields and resist to the group! :-)

RNG proc sets aren't good for support roles, particular for defensive support. Sometimes when you need that Imperium shield, it won't proc. And sometimes it'll proc when you don't need it and incur that cooldown. Sure, sometimes it'll proc at just the right time and save someone, but in my experience back when I tried Imperium a couple of years ago, it's pretty uncommon.

This is why I never use healing RNG proc sets or shield RNG proc sets--those sorts of defenses need to be reactive--they need to activate when needed and not when they aren't. Defensive support sets should be sets that are either consistent or that you have control over. Lord Warden is great, because the proc condition is so generous that it's up pretty much all the time. Earthgore on a healer or healtank is great because its proc is not based on RNG and is guaranteed if the conditions are met and the set is off cooldown. But not Imperium.

Consistency is also what makes Ebon so desirable. Let's say a magicka DPS is using Witchmother's Brew so that they can sustain their DPS rotation. The problem with Witchmother's is that it doesn't have a lot of health and even with a health bonus on their armor, they'd be sitting at less than 17K health. So they can either respec their magicka attributes to health (and thus lose damage and utility), or they can rely on Ebon in the group to bring them up to 18K. And they can rely on Ebon being there because every coordinated trials group requires Ebon on one of the tanks, and Ebon is up 100% of the time as long as the tank is alive and you aren't too far from the tank. So the DPS won't have to make sacrifices to get to a safe level of health because the tank supplies that missing health and they can depend on the tank supplying that health. But what about something like a shield? The DPS can't rely on the Imperium shield procing on them when they need it. So they will still have to slot a personal shield on their bar. You can't make any plans around things that you can't depend on.

Offensive proc sets are fine, because whether your Skoria meteor hits when the boss is at 90% health or at 20% health, it doesn't matter--damage is damage. But defenses are contextual and time-sensitive. They need to be reactive. A heal or a shield when someone is at 90% health is very different than when someone is at 20% health.

As for Beckoning Steel, it seems like a very situational set. There needs to be a lot of incoming ranged damage. In a fight where the DPS are stacked very tightly on the tank--4m is a pretty short range (as context, most melee abilities are 5m). If there isn't that much ranged damage or if it's not the kind of fight where you want the DPS stacked on the tank (which is often a bad idea because a lot of melee enemies have conal cleave abilities), then Beckoning will not do much good for the group.

In ESO, the best defense is a good offense. The faster something dies, the less opportunity it has to do damage to your group. Which is why in the standard trials setup, of the eight 5p sets worn by the four support roles (two healers, two tanks), only 2 of the 8 are defensive (Ebon and Mending). The other 6 sets used by the support roles to either directly or indirectly increase the DPS of the group so that things die faster.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@idk great write-up. Op, read that and live it.

paulsimonps

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lupusdiabolus wrote: »

Torugs Pact.
Tavas Favour
Histbark
These are all good craftable tank Sets. Common is actually Torugs

Tanks use Torug’s Pact? For real? I thought it was mainly a set used on damage dealing characters for the 2pcs. set bonus. Very interesting... I suppose ya learn something new every day.

That used to be the case a while back, but with the buff to it and the nerf to Sharpened and other penetration sources its buff and up time increase of Crusher became on par with that of Alkosh, and at the moment it has significantly higher up time, 98% ish if done right while Alkosh is struggling cause Synergies are a PitA, though Alkosh does have the pro of being an AoE that can effect multiple targets. As well not sure I have seen a mag DPS use Torug's 2 piece for a very long time. 3-4p bonuses with stuff like Willpower or Moondancer as well that Maelstrom/Asylum has taken that place with Monster sets as well. So lots better options than a 2p out there now.

I'm assuming that it's a Magika tank using Torugs. It doesn't have any place on a Stam tank or even a Hybrid.

I would most likely be considered either a Stam Tank or a Hybrid and I use it. Like others have said, the 2p doesn't have to be taken into consideration, just like we disregard the Minor Slayer on Alkosh. Max Health and Spell resistance is of course still great to have. But the 5p bonus is so damn good that the 2p being all but useless does not matter, not obviously if you are a mag tank it can help you, but its not why we run it. Torug's is for ALL Tanks.

AgentofKhaoss

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lupusdiabolus wrote: »

Torugs Pact.
Tavas Favour
Histbark
These are all good craftable tank Sets. Common is actually Torugs

Tanks use Torug’s Pact? For real? I thought it was mainly a set used on damage dealing characters for the 2pcs. set bonus. Very interesting... I suppose ya learn something new every day.

That used to be the case a while back, but with the buff to it and the nerf to Sharpened and other penetration sources its buff and up time increase of Crusher became on par with that of Alkosh, and at the moment it has significantly higher up time, 98% ish if done right while Alkosh is struggling cause Synergies are a PitA, though Alkosh does have the pro of being an AoE that can effect multiple targets. As well not sure I have seen a mag DPS use Torug's 2 piece for a very long time. 3-4p bonuses with stuff like Willpower or Moondancer as well that Maelstrom/Asylum has taken that place with Monster sets as well. So lots better options than a 2p out there now.

I'm assuming that it's a Magika tank using Torugs. It doesn't have any place on a Stam tank or even a Hybrid.

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

I'm currently running a nightblade tank that works very well, and I'm not using any of the sets listed here except fortified brass. I could never imagine using Torug's, that set just looks like straight trash to me.

Argonian
5x Lunar Bastion
5x Fortified Brass
Shadowrend monster set (until I can finally complete V Mazzatun and get mighty chudan)

I play as a sap-tank, with twin shades and other utility things on my backbar. I am basically immortal, and I constantly see my shades' minor maim debuff saving my team from otherwise fatal damage.

Well you say Torug's is trash but there is a reason its one of the favored sets of many end game Trial groups. It can give you a 100% up time on both Crusher and Weakening on the bosses and not only that but also make both enchantments stronger, this is obviously combined with Infused weapons. It adds a lot of utility to the group, both in defense and offense.

The sets you are using are all defensive, and one is only for yourself, and you are planning a 2nd with your monster set. No offensive capability and the defensive bonus of Lunar Bastion is very limited. You lack offensive utility, something that is really useful in Dungeons and Trials. In dungeons you really do not have to be tanky at all, better to go with all utility sets. And in many of the Trials you can do the same. And then on boss fights that require a bit more defense for yourself you can swap the gear out. For example I swap my Torug's or Alkosh with Plague for when I fight Olms in Veteran Asylum, but when I do dungeons I go with my offensive stuff.

As well Minor Main is more commonly applied by Heroic Slash, a skill you really should be using anyway, so Shades is over doing it, especially considering you are also wearing Shadowrend. The ultigen combined with Minor Maim makes Heroic Slash a must have skill for Tanks, making shades useless. Never use them on my Nightblade Tank.

Your Nightblade Tank sounds pretty good. I just don't see how you use Torugs. Are you a heavy armor Magika build? Wouldn't Rattlecage be better?

Tanks can get away with pretty much any 2-4 piece bonuses, it is all about the five piece and torags is an insane boost to your teammates dps, up to like 3k armor removed, so that is like a straight 6% boost to your teammates dps and with Pierce armor( the main taunt in the game and if you don't use this, you better have a good reason why) is removing upwards of 8.5k armor every time you taunt and there is no single person over taunt in the game any more so no real reason to not taunt as much as your Stam can handle it.



Rattlecage is straight garbage. For everyone.

I know someone who would disagree with you vehemently that Rattlecage is garbage. I'll have to get his build and get back with you.

As far as Torugs, I guess. I see where you are going stacking crusher on top of Pierce Armor..... still not a fan but I see the use.

I also think Lunar Bastion has a lot more use than you think. It Procs on any synergy activation..... a high health tank build running Bone shield plus a good healer has plenty of synergies.

I think we just have different philosophies on talking.

paulsimonps

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lupusdiabolus wrote: »

Torugs Pact.
Tavas Favour
Histbark
These are all good craftable tank Sets. Common is actually Torugs

Tanks use Torug’s Pact? For real? I thought it was mainly a set used on damage dealing characters for the 2pcs. set bonus. Very interesting... I suppose ya learn something new every day.

That used to be the case a while back, but with the buff to it and the nerf to Sharpened and other penetration sources its buff and up time increase of Crusher became on par with that of Alkosh, and at the moment it has significantly higher up time, 98% ish if done right while Alkosh is struggling cause Synergies are a PitA, though Alkosh does have the pro of being an AoE that can effect multiple targets. As well not sure I have seen a mag DPS use Torug's 2 piece for a very long time. 3-4p bonuses with stuff like Willpower or Moondancer as well that Maelstrom/Asylum has taken that place with Monster sets as well. So lots better options than a 2p out there now.

I'm assuming that it's a Magika tank using Torugs. It doesn't have any place on a Stam tank or even a Hybrid.

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

I'm currently running a nightblade tank that works very well, and I'm not using any of the sets listed here except fortified brass. I could never imagine using Torug's, that set just looks like straight trash to me.

Argonian
5x Lunar Bastion
5x Fortified Brass
Shadowrend monster set (until I can finally complete V Mazzatun and get mighty chudan)

I play as a sap-tank, with twin shades and other utility things on my backbar. I am basically immortal, and I constantly see my shades' minor maim debuff saving my team from otherwise fatal damage.

Well you say Torug's is trash but there is a reason its one of the favored sets of many end game Trial groups. It can give you a 100% up time on both Crusher and Weakening on the bosses and not only that but also make both enchantments stronger, this is obviously combined with Infused weapons. It adds a lot of utility to the group, both in defense and offense.

The sets you are using are all defensive, and one is only for yourself, and you are planning a 2nd with your monster set. No offensive capability and the defensive bonus of Lunar Bastion is very limited. You lack offensive utility, something that is really useful in Dungeons and Trials. In dungeons you really do not have to be tanky at all, better to go with all utility sets. And in many of the Trials you can do the same. And then on boss fights that require a bit more defense for yourself you can swap the gear out. For example I swap my Torug's or Alkosh with Plague for when I fight Olms in Veteran Asylum, but when I do dungeons I go with my offensive stuff.

As well Minor Main is more commonly applied by Heroic Slash, a skill you really should be using anyway, so Shades is over doing it, especially considering you are also wearing Shadowrend. The ultigen combined with Minor Maim makes Heroic Slash a must have skill for Tanks, making shades useless. Never use them on my Nightblade Tank.

Your Nightblade Tank sounds pretty good. I just don't see how you use Torugs. Are you a heavy armor Magika build? Wouldn't Rattlecage be better?

Tanks can get away with pretty much any 2-4 piece bonuses, it is all about the five piece and torags is an insane boost to your teammates dps, up to like 3k armor removed, so that is like a straight 6% boost to your teammates dps and with Pierce armor( the main taunt in the game and if you don't use this, you better have a good reason why) is removing upwards of 8.5k armor every time you taunt and there is no single person over taunt in the game any more so no real reason to not taunt as much as your Stam can handle it.



Rattlecage is straight garbage. For everyone.

I know someone who would disagree with you vehemently that Rattlecage is garbage. I'll have to get his build and get back with you.

As far as Torugs, I guess. I see where you are going stacking crusher on top of Pierce Armor..... still not a fan but I see the use.

I also think Lunar Bastion has a lot more use than you think. It Procs on any synergy activation..... a high health tank build running Bone shield plus a good healer has plenty of synergies.

I think we just have different philosophies on talking.

Yes we do, cause too much defense is not as good as balancing offense and defense. In ESO, like code said, a good offense is a good defense. Kill things before they can kill you. And giving people more damage through penetration lets them put less points into Piercing or Spell Erosion for penetration, instead they can put more points into other Damage CP Trees. Spamming constant shields will only help you so much, and super high health builds are limited to basically only that.

And I would say too that Rattlecage is wasted on a Tank, the spell damage will give you very little, plus, tanks should not care about damage. Instead they should focus on increasing others damage.

Tarum

What about Histbark + Hunding rage? I tried that for Pvp and it seems it works pretty good in veteran dungeon.
BUT I just hit 160 and I just tanked in 2 veteran dungeons. Suggestions?
I hate dropped sets, they looks bad

Surgee

Lyserus wrote: »

tank tops

This!. Been using one for over a year now. Great results.

But in all honesty, I think lot's of players here don't understand that tanking is not just standing there and blocking. It's mostly PROTECTING your group from any harm so that the healer isn't forced to spam heals at all times.

With that being said, think of a set that can benefit your group, like Brands of Imperium.

paulsimonps

Tarum wrote: »

What about Histbark + Hunding rage? I tried that for Pvp and it seems it works pretty good in veteran dungeon.
BUT I just hit 160 and I just tanked in 2 veteran dungeons. Suggestions?
I hate dropped sets, they looks bad

First of you can't combine 2 crafted sets sadly, not until they add jewelry crafting. And for most veteran dungeons anything will do, you can tank it in all light non set gear. What you want to try and do is optimize it so it goes faster and easier and with less deaths. That is where you can optimize. Histbark is a good beginner set but using more utility sets will have you learn how to tank better without the Histbark and would at the same time make your teammates happier cause you contribute with buffs or debuffs.

Btw, a good way to hide the looks of a Dropped set is this, the 3 jewelry pieces, the belt(it doesn't add much to your look) and then either Weapons, Boots or Gloves. Do this and make the rest crafted, recommend Torug's and you can look great while at the same time go great as well.

code65536

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

I know someone who would disagree with you vehemently that Rattlecage is garbage.

It's all a matter of context.

When I first started tanking over 2 years ago, it was on a Nightblade. And the only thing that I tanked were dungeons. With zone PUGs.

• Easy-to-medium difficulty
• Small-group content
• Uncoordinated groups

The build that I used provided absolutely zero group support. It was purely selfish. I had 25K health, 36K magicka, and over 2K spell damage. I was essentially a sturdy DPS in heavy armor, sword, shield, and a taunt.

And it worked great! Group DPS too low? No problem, I had my own damage. Healer doesn't know what they're doing? No problem, I had my own heals. And what's the point of buffing the DDs when they're just spamming light attacks with a bow? If the rest of the group was doing 10K DPS total, and I do things that buff their DPS by 15%, I've just added 1.5K DPS to the group. I might as well do my own DPS, in that case.

And if you were to build a tank for that kind of context, Rattlecage would be nice (but not for a Nightblade because Sap makes the 5p redundant, but I digress).

And if I were to join a Group Finder vet dungeon, I would not go with my "real" tank and instead use this DPS/tank hybrid that I just described.

What Paul and I and most tanks talk about, though, are the "real" tanks. These are tanks that are optimized for a different context.

• High difficulty: My high-DPS tank which excels in easier dungeons have a hard time in the vet SotH and HotR dungeons--the things that I did to enable that amount of DPS just doesn't work well with the amount of damage and pressure arrayed against the tank in these dungeons. And that build won't stand a chance in a vet trial.
• Large-group content: When the things that you do as a tank add, say, 5K DPS, to each DD, then in a group with 2 DDs, you've added 10K group DPS, but in a group with 8 DDs, you just added 40K group DPS. Optimizing the offensive support that you give is all that more important when there are more players who can benefit.
• Coordinated groups: In PUGs where you might have DDs who are just spamming light attacks with a bow, why would you even want to buff their damage? It'd be wasted. But in coordinated groups, the support that you can give is far, far more important and potent. There is also clearer divisions and labor and specialization of roles, to wring out the most performance possible.

Rattlecage is fine--even desirable--for PUG dungeons where you will often have to stray outside the traditional definitions of a tank. It's also good for PvP "tanking" (a "PvP tank" is really just a player with a lot of survivability and is a whole other thing). But's it's an absolutely terrible set for serious "traditional" tanking.

Again, it's all about context. A traditional tank is worthless--like a fish stranded on a beach--if they get thrown into an uncoordinated group with bow light-attack spammers. And a Rattlecage tank is worthless if thrown into something like vMoL.

kringled_1

I'm currently running 2 selfish sets - Beekeeper and Warrior Poet, and 1 piece Pirate Skeleton. It seems to be getting me through vets decently. I plan to keep using something like this for stuff like randomly showing up at a World Boss, where there may well be no healers. I'm gathering Ebon Armory gear, but I have only body pieces and a necklace so far, so I can't replace either of my current sets. (Now that I think about it, I did get weapons last night, but not ones I want to use on this character - lightning and resto staves. Maybe for another tank in the future.)
Torugs, well, I can see the reasoning behind it, it makes sense in situations where there's a lot of dps and/or you have faith in them. My current setup, I can use 1 non-set piece, so thats an infused crusher weapon as it is. I'm not sure if I can combine Torug's with anything I have atm, though, I'm not sure if I have more than 2 jewelry for either set. I'm also running more PUG dungeons, both vet and normal, than anything else, which means a bit of everything, including the 'healer' last night who's only heal tool was soul gem revives.
I may mess around with tremorscale 2 piece for dungeons once I have enough other pieces to not give up a 5 piece, but just for fun.

generalmyrick

Situational indeed! :-)

AgentofKhaoss

paulsimonps wrote: »

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lupusdiabolus wrote: »

Torugs Pact.
Tavas Favour
Histbark
These are all good craftable tank Sets. Common is actually Torugs

Tanks use Torug’s Pact? For real? I thought it was mainly a set used on damage dealing characters for the 2pcs. set bonus. Very interesting... I suppose ya learn something new every day.

That used to be the case a while back, but with the buff to it and the nerf to Sharpened and other penetration sources its buff and up time increase of Crusher became on par with that of Alkosh, and at the moment it has significantly higher up time, 98% ish if done right while Alkosh is struggling cause Synergies are a PitA, though Alkosh does have the pro of being an AoE that can effect multiple targets. As well not sure I have seen a mag DPS use Torug's 2 piece for a very long time. 3-4p bonuses with stuff like Willpower or Moondancer as well that Maelstrom/Asylum has taken that place with Monster sets as well. So lots better options than a 2p out there now.

I'm assuming that it's a Magika tank using Torugs. It doesn't have any place on a Stam tank or even a Hybrid.

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

I'm currently running a nightblade tank that works very well, and I'm not using any of the sets listed here except fortified brass. I could never imagine using Torug's, that set just looks like straight trash to me.

Argonian
5x Lunar Bastion
5x Fortified Brass
Shadowrend monster set (until I can finally complete V Mazzatun and get mighty chudan)

I play as a sap-tank, with twin shades and other utility things on my backbar. I am basically immortal, and I constantly see my shades' minor maim debuff saving my team from otherwise fatal damage.

Well you say Torug's is trash but there is a reason its one of the favored sets of many end game Trial groups. It can give you a 100% up time on both Crusher and Weakening on the bosses and not only that but also make both enchantments stronger, this is obviously combined with Infused weapons. It adds a lot of utility to the group, both in defense and offense.

The sets you are using are all defensive, and one is only for yourself, and you are planning a 2nd with your monster set. No offensive capability and the defensive bonus of Lunar Bastion is very limited. You lack offensive utility, something that is really useful in Dungeons and Trials. In dungeons you really do not have to be tanky at all, better to go with all utility sets. And in many of the Trials you can do the same. And then on boss fights that require a bit more defense for yourself you can swap the gear out. For example I swap my Torug's or Alkosh with Plague for when I fight Olms in Veteran Asylum, but when I do dungeons I go with my offensive stuff.

As well Minor Main is more commonly applied by Heroic Slash, a skill you really should be using anyway, so Shades is over doing it, especially considering you are also wearing Shadowrend. The ultigen combined with Minor Maim makes Heroic Slash a must have skill for Tanks, making shades useless. Never use them on my Nightblade Tank.

Your Nightblade Tank sounds pretty good. I just don't see how you use Torugs. Are you a heavy armor Magika build? Wouldn't Rattlecage be better?

Tanks can get away with pretty much any 2-4 piece bonuses, it is all about the five piece and torags is an insane boost to your teammates dps, up to like 3k armor removed, so that is like a straight 6% boost to your teammates dps and with Pierce armor( the main taunt in the game and if you don't use this, you better have a good reason why) is removing upwards of 8.5k armor every time you taunt and there is no single person over taunt in the game any more so no real reason to not taunt as much as your Stam can handle it.



Rattlecage is straight garbage. For everyone.

I know someone who would disagree with you vehemently that Rattlecage is garbage. I'll have to get his build and get back with you.

As far as Torugs, I guess. I see where you are going stacking crusher on top of Pierce Armor..... still not a fan but I see the use.

I also think Lunar Bastion has a lot more use than you think. It Procs on any synergy activation..... a high health tank build running Bone shield plus a good healer has plenty of synergies.

I think we just have different philosophies on talking.

And I would say too that Rattlecage is wasted on a Tank, the spell damage will give you very little, plus, tanks should not care about damage. Instead they should focus on increasing others damage.

But your original statement was that Rattlecage was garbage. Even if it's a normal or a lower tier vet dungeon, there is a use. You should be able to adapt to your group and the circumstances.

Zimbugga

Juggernaut is very useful. It's your plan B.

Well, there are so different tanks. There are many other good sets: Plague Doctor, Ironblood, Brands of Imperium and Armor Master.

There are good Monster Sets: Dark Warden and Mighty Chudan.

Mojmir

I find unless your running vet trials or dlc dungeons it really doesn't matter anymore as long as its heavy. Most of the time its 3 dps who only need the last bosses taunted away from them.

zaria

code65536 wrote: »

Every time one of these what-gear-should-I-use-for-tanking threads come up, you see a lot of sets get mentioned that are "selfish" sets--i.e., sets designed to help a tank's survivability or resource management.

Hist Bark, Armor Master, Fortified Brass, Plague Doctor, Green Pact, Seducer, etc. All sets that help the tank, but offer nothing to the group.

Selfish sets are not bad, per se--in some fights, selfish sets are recommended or even required (most notably, the axe tank in vAA should wear selfish gear so that they can keep using War Horns instead of a defensive ult, and Reactive Armor is required for surviving a certain mechanics combo on vHoF boss 2), and when you're learning new content, selfish sets can help ease the pain of the learning curve (I used Plague and Seducer when I was learning to tank vHoF boss 4).

Ultimately, though, the tank's role is a support role, and being able to offer support to the group--particularly offensive support--is very valuable. So while selfish sets are good for someone who's learning new content, they are something that people should eventually try to move away from once they get comfortable with what they're doing. You want just enough survival to stay alive, and devote everything else to group utility.

For 4-man content, like vet DLC dungeons, if you're familiar with the fights, you can tank every one of them in pure support gear like Ebon/Alkosh. Or Ebon/Torug if you prefer to be a little more tanky or if Alkosh is too difficult to acquire.

And you sums it up perfectly, it depend on you and your group skill level on content, and the content itself in the end.

StytchFingal

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

But your original statement was that Rattlecage was garbage. Even if it's a normal or a lower tier vet dungeon, there is a use. You should be able to adapt to your group and the circumstances.

It was Lightspeedflashb14_ESO who said it was garbage, not paulsimonps

StytchFingal

cbdfarm wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

cbdfarm wrote: »

Reported. Having that offensiveness removed from the thread once wasn't enough for you?

LioraValkyrie

I tank vDSA with 3 magsorc dds, no healer, using 5 Fortified Brass, 5 Sanctuary, 2 Bloodspawn. I tactically let myself get to low health then pop one Green Dragon Blood for an instant 30k heal. It's awesome

MehrunesFlagon

paulsimonps wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Tavas is useless since ZoS broke it with the shuffle skill change, don't even bother with that set. It only works in 5 medium now unless you're a Nightblade.

Yes we know Warden has a 5% evasion skill blah blah, that skills useless stop suggesting it. No gossamer wont proc that because evading and enemies missing is not the same thing. Also I am not gonna spend a whole battle dodge rolling so quit suggesting that too.

Tbh I wouldn't use any crafted sets now for tanking because they're all subpar to dropped sets, unless of course your just looking for some quick slap together gear with training on it to level in. In that case Whitestrake, or Hist Bark, I even like some of the hybridy sets from Vvardenfell and Clockwork City for leveling.

@Caligamy_ESO
While I agree that Tava's is bad, you are wrong on two things. First, Gossamer will proc Tava's. Gossamer gives the allied targets Major Evasion, the buff we use to proc Tava's, its what the Medium Armor skill grants. It does not make enemies miss you in that sense. Miss chance was taken out of the game a long time ago, with the exception of the now Meridian Blessed Armor.



Second thing is, Torug's Pact combined with Alkosh is a very strong set up for a Tank and that does contain a crafted set, Torug's. This type of set up allows groups to spend less points into Piercing or Spell Erosion, as well giving a strong Weakening enchantment debuff on the bosses. Though its more for groups that preform properly and spec as a group and not just solo.

I would never want to give up spc or worm for major evasion.

idk

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lupusdiabolus wrote: »

Torugs Pact.
Tavas Favour
Histbark
These are all good craftable tank Sets. Common is actually Torugs

Tanks use Torug’s Pact? For real? I thought it was mainly a set used on damage dealing characters for the 2pcs. set bonus. Very interesting... I suppose ya learn something new every day.

That used to be the case a while back, but with the buff to it and the nerf to Sharpened and other penetration sources its buff and up time increase of Crusher became on par with that of Alkosh, and at the moment it has significantly higher up time, 98% ish if done right while Alkosh is struggling cause Synergies are a PitA, though Alkosh does have the pro of being an AoE that can effect multiple targets. As well not sure I have seen a mag DPS use Torug's 2 piece for a very long time. 3-4p bonuses with stuff like Willpower or Moondancer as well that Maelstrom/Asylum has taken that place with Monster sets as well. So lots better options than a 2p out there now.

I'm assuming that it's a Magika tank using Torugs. It doesn't have any place on a Stam tank or even a Hybrid.

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

I'm currently running a nightblade tank that works very well, and I'm not using any of the sets listed here except fortified brass. I could never imagine using Torug's, that set just looks like straight trash to me.

Argonian
5x Lunar Bastion
5x Fortified Brass
Shadowrend monster set (until I can finally complete V Mazzatun and get mighty chudan)

I play as a sap-tank, with twin shades and other utility things on my backbar. I am basically immortal, and I constantly see my shades' minor maim debuff saving my team from otherwise fatal damage.

Well you say Torug's is trash but there is a reason its one of the favored sets of many end game Trial groups. It can give you a 100% up time on both Crusher and Weakening on the bosses and not only that but also make both enchantments stronger, this is obviously combined with Infused weapons. It adds a lot of utility to the group, both in defense and offense.

The sets you are using are all defensive, and one is only for yourself, and you are planning a 2nd with your monster set. No offensive capability and the defensive bonus of Lunar Bastion is very limited. You lack offensive utility, something that is really useful in Dungeons and Trials. In dungeons you really do not have to be tanky at all, better to go with all utility sets. And in many of the Trials you can do the same. And then on boss fights that require a bit more defense for yourself you can swap the gear out. For example I swap my Torug's or Alkosh with Plague for when I fight Olms in Veteran Asylum, but when I do dungeons I go with my offensive stuff.

As well Minor Main is more commonly applied by Heroic Slash, a skill you really should be using anyway, so Shades is over doing it, especially considering you are also wearing Shadowrend. The ultigen combined with Minor Maim makes Heroic Slash a must have skill for Tanks, making shades useless. Never use them on my Nightblade Tank.

Your Nightblade Tank sounds pretty good. I just don't see how you use Torugs. Are you a heavy armor Magika build? Wouldn't Rattlecage be better?

Tanks can get away with pretty much any 2-4 piece bonuses, it is all about the five piece and torags is an insane boost to your teammates dps, up to like 3k armor removed, so that is like a straight 6% boost to your teammates dps and with Pierce armor( the main taunt in the game and if you don't use this, you better have a good reason why) is removing upwards of 8.5k armor every time you taunt and there is no single person over taunt in the game any more so no real reason to not taunt as much as your Stam can handle it.



Rattlecage is straight garbage. For everyone.

I know someone who would disagree with you vehemently that Rattlecage is garbage. I'll have to get his build and get back with you.

As far as Torugs, I guess. I see where you are going stacking crusher on top of Pierce Armor..... still not a fan but I see the use.

I also think Lunar Bastion has a lot more use than you think. It Procs on any synergy activation..... a high health tank build running Bone shield plus a good healer has plenty of synergies.

I think we just have different philosophies on talking.

And I would say too that Rattlecage is wasted on a Tank, the spell damage will give you very little, plus, tanks should not care about damage. Instead they should focus on increasing others damage.

But your original statement was that Rattlecage was garbage. Even if it's a normal or a lower tier vet dungeon, there is a use. You should be able to adapt to your group and the circumstances.

For anything that offers some challenge to tanking Paul's comment is correct. I would suggest looking at the second post Code made in this thread on page 2. He has framed it with context.

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

I tank vDSA with 3 magsorc dds, no healer, using 5 Fortified Brass, 5 Sanctuary, 2 Bloodspawn. I tactically let myself get to low health then pop one Green Dragon Blood for an instant 30k heal. It's awesome

You are probably going in with more resist than the tanks at the top of the leaderboard due to the Fortified Brass. They are likely not wearing any gear that provides resistance as a set bonus. That goes for any of the group content leaderboards. Not sure what I would suggest as a replacement since you are only getting one synergy other than Dragonguard to increase your magicka regen and reduce the cost of your WH.

As for Sanctuary, that ranged DPS have to be pretty close to you (10 meter range). It also may be more beneficial to wear either Ebon which has a larger radius and permits the DPS to take more damage before death. It is widely considered a very significant tank set to prevent deaths of the group members. Besides, the Sorcs have a great shield to use if they need to buy some times for their own heals to catch up.

Bloodspawn is probably a great monster set for vDSA since you are not coordinating WH with anyone else.

paulsimonps

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Tavas is useless since ZoS broke it with the shuffle skill change, don't even bother with that set. It only works in 5 medium now unless you're a Nightblade.

Yes we know Warden has a 5% evasion skill blah blah, that skills useless stop suggesting it. No gossamer wont proc that because evading and enemies missing is not the same thing. Also I am not gonna spend a whole battle dodge rolling so quit suggesting that too.

Tbh I wouldn't use any crafted sets now for tanking because they're all subpar to dropped sets, unless of course your just looking for some quick slap together gear with training on it to level in. In that case Whitestrake, or Hist Bark, I even like some of the hybridy sets from Vvardenfell and Clockwork City for leveling.

@Caligamy_ESO
While I agree that Tava's is bad, you are wrong on two things. First, Gossamer will proc Tava's. Gossamer gives the allied targets Major Evasion, the buff we use to proc Tava's, its what the Medium Armor skill grants. It does not make enemies miss you in that sense. Miss chance was taken out of the game a long time ago, with the exception of the now Meridian Blessed Armor.



Second thing is, Torug's Pact combined with Alkosh is a very strong set up for a Tank and that does contain a crafted set, Torug's. This type of set up allows groups to spend less points into Piercing or Spell Erosion, as well giving a strong Weakening enchantment debuff on the bosses. Though its more for groups that preform properly and spec as a group and not just solo.

I would never want to give up spc or worm for major evasion.

And you shouldn't SPC, Worm, Mending, Twilight or even monster sets are better than Gossamer, but still facts are fact on how it works Actually even Torugs on a Healer would be better than Gossamer. But I would not recommend it since its a common tank set can would be a waste if both wears it.

paulsimonps

idk wrote: »

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lupusdiabolus wrote: »

Torugs Pact.
Tavas Favour
Histbark
These are all good craftable tank Sets. Common is actually Torugs

Tanks use Torug’s Pact? For real? I thought it was mainly a set used on damage dealing characters for the 2pcs. set bonus. Very interesting... I suppose ya learn something new every day.

That used to be the case a while back, but with the buff to it and the nerf to Sharpened and other penetration sources its buff and up time increase of Crusher became on par with that of Alkosh, and at the moment it has significantly higher up time, 98% ish if done right while Alkosh is struggling cause Synergies are a PitA, though Alkosh does have the pro of being an AoE that can effect multiple targets. As well not sure I have seen a mag DPS use Torug's 2 piece for a very long time. 3-4p bonuses with stuff like Willpower or Moondancer as well that Maelstrom/Asylum has taken that place with Monster sets as well. So lots better options than a 2p out there now.

I'm assuming that it's a Magika tank using Torugs. It doesn't have any place on a Stam tank or even a Hybrid.

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

I'm currently running a nightblade tank that works very well, and I'm not using any of the sets listed here except fortified brass. I could never imagine using Torug's, that set just looks like straight trash to me.

Argonian
5x Lunar Bastion
5x Fortified Brass
Shadowrend monster set (until I can finally complete V Mazzatun and get mighty chudan)

I play as a sap-tank, with twin shades and other utility things on my backbar. I am basically immortal, and I constantly see my shades' minor maim debuff saving my team from otherwise fatal damage.

Well you say Torug's is trash but there is a reason its one of the favored sets of many end game Trial groups. It can give you a 100% up time on both Crusher and Weakening on the bosses and not only that but also make both enchantments stronger, this is obviously combined with Infused weapons. It adds a lot of utility to the group, both in defense and offense.

The sets you are using are all defensive, and one is only for yourself, and you are planning a 2nd with your monster set. No offensive capability and the defensive bonus of Lunar Bastion is very limited. You lack offensive utility, something that is really useful in Dungeons and Trials. In dungeons you really do not have to be tanky at all, better to go with all utility sets. And in many of the Trials you can do the same. And then on boss fights that require a bit more defense for yourself you can swap the gear out. For example I swap my Torug's or Alkosh with Plague for when I fight Olms in Veteran Asylum, but when I do dungeons I go with my offensive stuff.

As well Minor Main is more commonly applied by Heroic Slash, a skill you really should be using anyway, so Shades is over doing it, especially considering you are also wearing Shadowrend. The ultigen combined with Minor Maim makes Heroic Slash a must have skill for Tanks, making shades useless. Never use them on my Nightblade Tank.

Your Nightblade Tank sounds pretty good. I just don't see how you use Torugs. Are you a heavy armor Magika build? Wouldn't Rattlecage be better?

Tanks can get away with pretty much any 2-4 piece bonuses, it is all about the five piece and torags is an insane boost to your teammates dps, up to like 3k armor removed, so that is like a straight 6% boost to your teammates dps and with Pierce armor( the main taunt in the game and if you don't use this, you better have a good reason why) is removing upwards of 8.5k armor every time you taunt and there is no single person over taunt in the game any more so no real reason to not taunt as much as your Stam can handle it.



Rattlecage is straight garbage. For everyone.

I know someone who would disagree with you vehemently that Rattlecage is garbage. I'll have to get his build and get back with you.

As far as Torugs, I guess. I see where you are going stacking crusher on top of Pierce Armor..... still not a fan but I see the use.

I also think Lunar Bastion has a lot more use than you think. It Procs on any synergy activation..... a high health tank build running Bone shield plus a good healer has plenty of synergies.

I think we just have different philosophies on talking.

And I would say too that Rattlecage is wasted on a Tank, the spell damage will give you very little, plus, tanks should not care about damage. Instead they should focus on increasing others damage.

But your original statement was that Rattlecage was garbage. Even if it's a normal or a lower tier vet dungeon, there is a use. You should be able to adapt to your group and the circumstances.

For anything that offers some challenge to tanking Paul's comment is correct. I would suggest looking at the second post Code made in this thread on page 2. He has framed it with context.

Yup what code said is right, I do then to view things first hand in terms of difficult content cause I see no need in optimizing for easy content. But he is right, in something like Fungal Grotto 1 or similar it is more benificial to run a DPS build with a Taunt rather then a full tank, but I would say most tanks do not build for that, they build for the hardest content and then use that for easy content as well. But to each their own, optimize away if you got the bag space for several sets.