TOP tank sets

Tarum

Prepare for some bad English here

Honestly in 2017 it almost seem stupid that these kind of roles exist. Games, expecially Elder Scrolls Online, are here to make us adventurers, heroes and villain in a well described setting.
Roles like Tank and Dps is really something that can survive just because of bad enemy AI, for the same reason a Tank in PvP is not the same as a PVE tank, as someone else pointed out.

Could you imagine a movie where there's a character that Tank a Boss (let's say Gimli against the Troll in Moria: LotR),
while the DPS get ignored by most of the monsters even if they are more damaging...?
Something is not right here:

Tank: "Hello, I'm the guy with thick armour. My blade is not that sharp, but I'm great at taunting!" <- his best skill is like Speechcaft O_o

DPS: "Hello, I'm a Glass Cannon. I don't mind to die, so i specialized to be sharp like a razor but really fragile. In a role playing perspective i know I can ressurrect and the guy in heavy armour is so great at taunt-poke the enemies with bad jokes that they ignore me "

Healer: "As the people in my Group is bleeding every second and go from 100% healthy to almost dying (without becoming schizofrenic) I'm using a special magic that close and stitch their wounds and also makes them feel better"

This would be acceptable in a game inside the game, but role playing speaking this is absurd. Games like this are fictions where the players can jump in and be part of it, but there's too much metagaming involved everytime. I don't think that Gimli think about being a dps or a tank, same as Legolas, same as Geralt of Rivia in the books.
If every character would really die like in a roguelike and fictions, no one would be organizing roles like Tank and Dps.
Also, monsters would spread their attack like people in pvp do.

code65536

idk wrote: »

You are probably going in with more resist than the tanks at the top of the leaderboard due to the Fortified Brass. They are likely not wearing any gear that provides resistance as a set bonus. That goes for any of the group content leaderboards. Not sure what I would suggest as a replacement since you are only getting one synergy other than Dragonguard to increase your magicka regen and reduce the cost of your WH.

The top vDSA groups have the tank in Powerful Assault and SPC. Since they don't have a SPC healer. The thing about vDSA, though, is that deaths matter more than time, and trying to get no deaths in the group with no healer and a tank that's not at all tanky is pretty hard, which is why I still run vDSA with a traditional 1T/1H/2DD setup with an Ebon tank. But a setup like that has a score ceiling of around 44K or so, and to go higher, you'll need one of those more aggressive setups and just learn to no-death it with so little defense.

Runefang

Tarum wrote: »

Prepare for some bad English here

Honestly in 2017 it almost seem stupid that these kind of roles exist. Games, expecially Elder Scrolls Online, are here to make us adventurers, heroes and villain in a well described setting.
Roles like Tank and Dps is really something that can survive just because of bad enemy AI, for the same reason a Tank in PvP is not the same as a PVE tank, as someone else pointed out.

Could you imagine a movie where there's a character that Tank a Boss (let's say Gimli against the Troll in Moria: LotR),
while the DPS get ignored by most of the monsters even if they are more damaging...?
Something is not right here:

Tank: "Hello, I'm the guy with thick armour. My blade is not that sharp, but I'm great at taunting!" <- his best skill is like Speechcaft O_o

DPS: "Hello, I'm a Glass Cannon. I don't mind to die, so i specialized to be sharp like a razor but really fragile. In a role playing perspective i know I can ressurrect and the guy in heavy armour is so great at taunt-poke the enemies with bad jokes that they ignore me "

Healer: "As the people in my Group is bleeding every second and go from 100% healthy to almost dying (without becoming schizofrenic) I'm using a special magic that close and stitch their wounds and also makes them feel better"

This would be acceptable in a game inside the game, but role playing speaking this is absurd. Games like this are fictions where the players can jump in and be part of it, but there's too much metagaming involved everytime. I don't think that Gimli think about being a dps or a tank, same as Legolas, same as Geralt of Rivia in the books.
If every character would really die like in a roguelike and fictions, no one would be organizing roles like Tank and Dps.
Also, monsters would spread their attack like people in pvp do.

100% agree with this, the MMO trinity needs to go from Tank, Healer and Damage to Mage, Thief and Warrior.

A mage can cast shields, CC, freeze, burn, disorient etc
A thief can sneak, hamstring, backstab, steal etc
A warrior can charge, stun, taunt (for a brief time) etc

In group content at least one of each class is required for certain mechanics.

Imagine fighting a giant where a thief needs to steal his potions prior to the fight in order to be able to finish it more easily? And the warrior has to stun it during a heavy attack? And the mage needs to disorient it when he's channeling a one-shot?

Or a thief needs to hamstring the boss before he runs away to call his friends? And the mage needs to shield the group during a boss AOE? Or the warrior needs to do a slam stun attack during an add phase?

Way more interesting.

VaranisArano

Tarum wrote: »

Prepare for some bad English here

Honestly in 2017 it almost seem stupid that these kind of roles exist. Games, expecially Elder Scrolls Online, are here to make us adventurers, heroes and villain in a well described setting.
Roles like Tank and Dps is really something that can survive just because of bad enemy AI, for the same reason a Tank in PvP is not the same as a PVE tank, as someone else pointed out.
...
This would be acceptable in a game inside the game, but role playing speaking this is absurd. Games like this are fictions where the players can jump in and be part of it, but there's too much metagaming involved everytime. I don't think that Gimli think about being a dps or a tank, same as Legolas, same as Geralt of Rivia in the books.
If every character would really die like in a roguelike and fictions, no one would be organizing roles like Tank and Dps.
Also, monsters would spread their attack like people in pvp do.

Good god is this off topic for a thread about the top crafted tank sets. But its not a bad topic, so I'll bite. You should probably start your own separate thread though if you want to discuss this further.

Its not that absurd from a roleplaying perspective. Its easiest to see with healers, with the healing archetype well established by D&D clerics. But even then, you've got the D&D roles that can take more damage and defend the group by getting in front of enemies, and the D&D roles that can dish out but not take the damage.

For example, my latest D&D character is a former legionnarie turned cleric of Apollo who heals but also wears heavy armor because that's what she trained in during her stint in the legion. For some reason, the prophetesses find it helpful to have someone in heavy armor to escort unhappy customers out of the premises. She's the party healer, being that Apollo is a god of healing, but she also has the battle smarts to defend the squishier members by intercepting enemies and taking aggro. In ESO terms, I'd call her a healer/tank in the groupfinder, but in D&D all that comes from her roleplaying.

But let's talk ESO. Sure, there's a ton of metagaming going on. But its certainly possible to make it work from a roleplaying perspective.
In metagaming terms, I've got a breton stam sorc DPS. In roleplaying terms, she's an outcast from her noble family who became a Dark Brotherhood assassin and thus hones her killing skills to be able to defeat anything as quickly as possible, never failing in her mission.
In metagaming terms, I've got a Dunmer MagDK tank. In roleplaying terms, my Vestige may not be the most proficient warrior, but she controls the battlefield. You can't bring her down, no matter how many people have tried. It doesn't matter how long it takes, if you are up to no good, she will cut through your army and then cut you down. Mannimarco and Molag Bal found that out firsthand.

D&D and every other RolePlaying Game always, always has a metagame. Its a feature, not a bug, even though we all politely agree to ignore the metagame when we sit down at the D&D table and help the DM spin us a story. Same thing for ESO. The Metagame is always there, but its in your power to ignore it or to use the metagame to craft a story.

Tarum

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tarum wrote: »

Prepare for some bad English here

Honestly in 2017 it almost seem stupid that these kind of roles exist. Games, expecially Elder Scrolls Online, are here to make us adventurers, heroes and villain in a well described setting.
Roles like Tank and Dps is really something that can survive just because of bad enemy AI, for the same reason a Tank in PvP is not the same as a PVE tank, as someone else pointed out.
...
This would be acceptable in a game inside the game, but role playing speaking this is absurd. Games like this are fictions where the players can jump in and be part of it, but there's too much metagaming involved everytime. I don't think that Gimli think about being a dps or a tank, same as Legolas, same as Geralt of Rivia in the books.
If every character would really die like in a roguelike and fictions, no one would be organizing roles like Tank and Dps.
Also, monsters would spread their attack like people in pvp do.

Good god is this off topic for a thread about the top crafted tank sets. But its not a bad topic, so I'll bite. You should probably start your own separate thread though if you want to discuss this further.

Its not that absurd from a roleplaying perspective. Its easiest to see with healers, with the healing archetype well established by D&D clerics. But even then, you've got the D&D roles that can take more damage and defend the group by getting in front of enemies, and the D&D roles that can dish out but not take the damage.

For example, my latest D&D character is a former legionnarie turned cleric of Apollo who heals but also wears heavy armor because that's what she trained in during her stint in the legion. For some reason, the prophetesses find it helpful to have someone in heavy armor to escort unhappy customers out of the premises. She's the party healer, being that Apollo is a god of healing, but she also has the battle smarts to defend the squishier members by intercepting enemies and taking aggro. In ESO terms, I'd call her a healer/tank in the groupfinder, but in D&D all that comes from her roleplaying.

But let's talk ESO. Sure, there's a ton of metagaming going on. But its certainly possible to make it work from a roleplaying perspective.
In metagaming terms, I've got a breton stam sorc DPS. In roleplaying terms, she's an outcast from her noble family who became a Dark Brotherhood assassin and thus hones her killing skills to be able to defeat anything as quickly as possible, never failing in her mission.
In metagaming terms, I've got a Dunmer MagDK tank. In roleplaying terms, my Vestige may not be the most proficient warrior, but she controls the battlefield. You can't bring her down, no matter how many people have tried. It doesn't matter how long it takes, if you are up to no good, she will cut through your army and then cut you down. Mannimarco and Molag Bal found that out firsthand.

D&D and every other RolePlaying Game always, always has a metagame. Its a feature, not a bug, even though we all politely agree to ignore the metagame when we sit down at the D&D table and help the DM spin us a story. Same thing for ESO. The Metagame is always there, but its in your power to ignore it or to use the metagame to craft a story.

I agree with you 100%, every point you made is solid, and it's what I play like. But i normally have not characters really suited to the 4man dungeons.
What I don't like is the fact that in Dungeons every player (mostly fault is player minds) needs to stick to an archetype.
Like Tanut-Defense or Damage. I don't mind to be a warrior, or a mage, or a cleric, or a mix.
Back in some older games in general a warrior with a shield could cut an arm off an enemy... now his blade doesn't cut because he's wearing a shield
End of the Off topic for me.

idk

code65536 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

You are probably going in with more resist than the tanks at the top of the leaderboard due to the Fortified Brass. They are likely not wearing any gear that provides resistance as a set bonus. That goes for any of the group content leaderboards. Not sure what I would suggest as a replacement since you are only getting one synergy other than Dragonguard to increase your magicka regen and reduce the cost of your WH.

The top vDSA groups have the tank in Powerful Assault and SPC. Since they don't have a SPC healer. The thing about vDSA, though, is that deaths matter more than time, and trying to get no deaths in the group with no healer and a tank that's not at all tanky is pretty hard, which is why I still run vDSA with a traditional 1T/1H/2DD setup with an Ebon tank. But a setup like that has a score ceiling of around 44K or so, and to go higher, you'll need one of those more aggressive setups and just learn to no-death it with so little defense.

That makes sense until the final round where the tank is likely not with the group but a few moments.

Tarum wrote: »

Prepare for some bad English here

Honestly in 2017 it almost seem stupid that these kind of roles exist. Games, expecially Elder Scrolls Online, are here to make us adventurers, heroes and villain in a well described setting.

I do not see how this has anything to do with the topic of this thread, however, for most content the trinity is not required.

Heck, anyone can slot S&B back bar or the undaunted taunt and everyone has easy access to damage reduction and heals. Of course they are not optimal which is why the trinity is still part of groups tackling the most challenging content.

If you read the second post made by Code on the second page of this thread he basically puts things into perspective. Really only maybe 2 or 3 vet dungeons in HM are easier with the trinity than not. Depends on the builds and skill of the group.

starkerealm

Tarum wrote: »

What about Histbark + Hunding rage? I tried that for Pvp and it seems it works pretty good in veteran dungeon.
BUT I just hit 160 and I just tanked in 2 veteran dungeons. Suggestions?
I hate dropped sets, they looks bad

Hunding is a fantastic DPS set. Honestly, you can run endgame content with it.

It's not that great for a Tank.

If you're restricting yourself to crafted gear, I'd even look at something like Alessia before Hunding. but, as other people have pointed out, Torug is your main go to option for tanking. I can kinda entertain the idea of Willow's Path, if you needed a different set for some reason, but still.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

StytchFingal wrote: »

AgentofKhaoss wrote: »

But your original statement was that Rattlecage was garbage. Even if it's a normal or a lower tier vet dungeon, there is a use. You should be able to adapt to your group and the circumstances.

It was Lightspeedflashb14_ESO who said it was garbage, not paulsimonps

Yeah if you are going to go full on ackchyually nerd mode, get your facts straight. I stand by my statement though, no context will make me think that set is worth anything.

GreenhaloX

You know, guys.. there are a lot of threads and conversation on tanks or tanking, such as this one. Of course, there are good, interesting, beneficial and insightful comments, and there are also wtf comments; such as "selfish tank." What the hell is this? I know there are always new lingos popping up for ESO, and who came up with this one?! Ha ha ha. Ideally, if you have to, then yes, using crafted set, such as what folks have mentioned on the thread here are fine. Any normal endgame content, rather soloing or in a group, i.e. undaunted dungeons (and even vet dungeons), and world boss pits, you will get away with and do fine with any tank; if you're actually tanking, that is. A hybrid tank that can actually adds some dps is quite beneficial as the third dpser against adds and mobs, particularly in vet dungeons. You can still taunt those higher hp adds with the Pierce Armor (you're also applying Major Breach,) and then switch to the dps bar and assist the actual dpser in knocking out those adds faster.

If a player/tank is actually taunting the boss, keeping the boss at bay, and not dying, any run/contents will be smoother. Ok, sure, there are perks that come with a set (crafted or not) that can benefit the group, but it's not a must have. Sure, it's nice to have, but not a need. Maybe I'm old school. I'm fine with Miller, Michelob or Budweiser, or the standard cream and sugar coffee. I don't need foo foo coffee or fine-aged wine or some creative mixed drinks in a yuppy pub. A tank should have this, should have that, apply this to the group and whatnot.. man, just taunt the boss, apply Major Breach, keep the boss at bay, and also taunt any higher hp adds as you are able, then you're fine as tank. A tank can also apply its old class buff and/or to the group.. that would be nice too. However, there is nothing selfless about a tank that is actually tanking, and doing it right; that is keeping the boss and other higher hp adds at bay and being able to sustain itself throughout.

If I'm a dd/dps, I'll have a field day just dpsing down the boss while the tank has the boss at bay. Maybe it's just me, I'm able to dps down any of the other trash adds/mobs as well. I also have my own class buffs as a dd/dpser. If you are counting much more on a tank, then, perhaps, the dd/dpsers are lacking a bit. Same with vet trials and even hard mode, you should have 8-9 high dpsers and a couple really good healers, besides a good tank or two. It's more mechanics that will knock out folks in vet trials. If you are fortunately enough to have a well-oiled group or some experience with vet trials and know what to do, then you still don't need whatever extra foo foo perks for the group from a tank set's perk. Again, sure, nice to have, but not a need. I would much prefer a higher hp DK tank that can spam out its higher class/skill Igneous Shield, and/or Warhorn, and/or the Magma Shell (particularly) for vet trials.

Ok, if other sets you've concocted up for a tank is working for you and the group, then, cool. However, there is nothing "selfish" about a tank and what a tank's job is; taunt, keep boss (and/or higher hp adds) at bay, applied breach and don't die. Cool, if a tank can provide extra perks, such as Torug's, but not necessary. Well.. to me, I can buff myself just fine, as a dpser, without the Torug from a tank, which is only small percentage-based, anyways.

Jade1986

Are we talking pve or pvp????? Because tanking is comPLETELY different between the two, and I feel most people commenting are talking about pvp tank sets.

Radinyn

Why everyone is reviving this tread? It was answered enough times.

idk

@GreenhaloX

It is rather simple, though I usually hear it in the opposite as in a selfish tank. A selfish tank is one that wears gear that only benefits himself rather that gear that increases the groups DPS and survival. The extra damage reduction is really not needed.

Most challenging content in the game is often tanked with all or most gear sets benefiting the group vs going for max resistance and damage reduction for the tank. That is probably the context where you have heard the term selfless. For raid content the "selfless" tank is preferred by many organized groups.

DMuehlhausen

raj72616a wrote: »

tanks can't agree on which sets are the best one.

can try Whitestrake and Plague Doctor if you are new to dungeons.

He specifically asked craftable so he can get started tanking. PD is better, but you have to farm it or buy it.

Radinyn

I will write this again.
I went with
Plague Doctor + Hist Bark + Lord Warden

Nelson_Rebel

Radinyn wrote: »

Why everyone is reviving this tread? It was answered enough times.

Because tanking is an interesting topic with lots if differing views on it. There is no 100% perfect way to do tanking with gear and setups as people have been succesful with very different items in all content.

DPs is = Get the BiS dps gear and do your rotation and don't stand in stupid.

Healer = Wear SPC and Worm/infallible and spam Healing springs. Ocassionally throw a shard.

Tanks = have a much more invested dynamic in controlling the trial/dungeon. They have to be situationlly aware of DPS and Healers to see where their AoE's are at and keep the boss/ads in that location while maintaining resources and watching the boss for the signs of his 1 shot mechanics.

TLDR; It's fun to talk about

kylewwefan

Not a crafted set, but can buy cheap and interesting one to try tanking with is Baharas Curse. It’s from thieves guild stuff. Drops in all 3 weights L H or M. It may not be the best anymore I dont know, but Gilliam used to build around it for nightblade sap tank.

VaranisArano

GreenhaloX wrote: »

You know, guys.. there are a lot of threads and conversation on tanks or tanking, such as this one. Of course, there are good, interesting, beneficial and insightful comments, and there are also wtf comments; such as "selfless tank." What the hell is this? I know there are always new lingos popping up for ESO, and who came up with this one?! Ha ha ha. Ideally, if you have to, then yes, using crafted set, such as what folks have mentioned on the thread here are fine. Any normal endgame content, rather soloing or in a group, i.e. undaunted dungeons (and even vet dungeons), and world boss pits, you will get away with and do fine with any tank; if you're actually tanking, that is. A hybrid tank that can actually adds some dps is quite beneficial as the third dpser against adds and mobs, particularly in vet dungeons. You can still taunt those higher hp adds with the Pierce Armor (you're also applying Major Breach,) and then switch to the dps bar and assist the actual dpser in knocking out those adds faster.
...
Ok, if other sets you've concocted up for a tank is working for you and the group, then, cool. However, there is nothing "selfless" about a tank and what a tank's job is; taunt, keep boss (and/or higher hp adds) at bay, applied breach and don't die. Cool, if a tank can provide extra perks, such as Torug's, but not necessary. Well.. to me, I can buff myself just fine, as a dpser, without the Torug from a tank, which is only small percentage-based, anyways.

"Selfless" and "Selfish" has nothing to do with the basic job of a tank.
As I like to say:
The basic job of a tank is to taunt the boss, hold boss aggro, and don't die. If you can do that, you are a tank.
A good tank taunts the boss, holds, boss aggro, doesn't die, holds the boss more or less still, debuffs the boss, buffs the group, and provides crowd control.

"Selfless" and "Selfish" is a shorthand for types of gear that cover one part of a good tank's job: buffing the group and to a lesser extent, debuffing the boss.

The clearest comparison is Plague Doctor with its beautiful health buff that only benefits the tank and Ebon Armory with its slightly less good health buff for the tank that also gives all the players in the group an extra 1k health. When put in terms of which gear set benefits the group the most, some players will say "Plague Doctor, because anything that makes my tank a better tank helps me fulfill my role in this group better" and some players will say "Ebon Armory, because I'm benefitting the rest of my group with that extra health and the DPS & healer(s) need that extra health more than I do." While its certain up for debate over whether either option is really selfish or selfless, I should hope that the reasoning for why each got its label is pretty clear.

In general, sets that benefit the tank and only the tank get the "selfish" label. Its not really called the tank selfish in a perjorative way though I'm sure it feels that way. Its totally valid to want to build your tank as strong and as self-sufficient as you want. Indeed, if you PUG vet randoms, I'd expect someone to build that way simply because of the nature of Vet Randoms. So the term "Selfish" refers to gear sets that benefit the tank and only the tank, which a better tank is better for the group.

In general, sets that benefit the tank and the group get the "selfless" label. A good tank is supporting the group with buffs and debuffs and although its certain possible to do that with only skills, many tanks will also do that with their gear. In competitive group content, this becomes almost a necessity, with tanks having more or less required gear to buff the group and debuff the boss. So the term "Selfless" refers to gear sets that benefit both tank and group, which a better group makes for an easier run.

Whether or not you should use "selfish" or "selfless" gear is up to you, your tank build, and the content you run. Most crafted and dropped tank sets are of the "selfish" variety as they benefit the tank and only the tank. Using those is not a bad thing! I used Whitestrake's Retribution when I was learning to tank and that damage shield saved me lots of times, enabling me to save my group. Same thing for Plague Doctor when I started running vet dungeons with my friends. I've since switched to Ebon Armory because I have enough pieces and my friends have some really squishy DPS so it helps our group have a smoother run, but you can absolutely be a good tank with plenty of buffs and debuffs without using the "selfless" gear choices to benefit your group.

Now, places where this "selfless" gear starts to get mandatory is when you get into larger groups and competitive content. The larger the group, the more benefit the buffs/debuffs give as well as the more cooperation required to complete content. There's a reason you see a healer in trials wearing Worm's Raiment, which reduces magicka costs for up to twelve players and there's a reason that one trials tank wears Ebon Armory. In a four man dungeon, Ebon Armory only gives 4K health which is minor in the face of things and why Ebon isn't the be-all, end-all set for dungeons. In a trial, Ebon Armory gives 12k health and allows the DPS to min-max their attributes and enchantments and still hit the desired 18k health.

I hope that helps explain that there's nothing really pejorative about "selfish" sets versus "selfless" sets as much as it is a way of categorizing gear for tanks based on the build philosophy.

Edited for spelling.

GreenhaloX

idk wrote: »

@GreenhaloX

It is rather simple, though I usually hear it in the opposite as in a selfish tank. A selfish tank is one that wears gear that only benefits himself rather that gear that increases the groups DPS and survival. The extra damage reduction is really not needed.

Most challenging content in the game is often tanked with all or most gear sets benefiting the group vs going for max resistance and damage reduction for the tank. That is probably the context where you have heard the term selfless. For raid content the "selfless" tank is preferred by many organized groups.

Ha ha.. ok. However, to me, selfish would rather be a tank (that has high resistance, health and buff) that is not really taunting or keeping the boss at bay. I've seen this happen in some world boss or dolmen, and even in dungeon runs, unfortunately. A S&B toon (which you should be a tank, if you're sporting S&B and your hp is 30k and higher), but that toon is slashing away while the boss is running amuck and thrashing other toons, and even knocking out those toons. Sure, as someone with S&B and higher hp, you probably won't die yourself, but you're not helping much or to the group, if you're not taunting as what a tank supposed to do. Now that's the selfish term to me, which, a tank who is just benefiting him or herself. Well, I'm maxed CP with well-defined skillsets/build with my own self-sustaining buff and presentable dpsing capability; thus, I'm not wiping as easy as other lower level toons/players (or those with light armor, ha ha), when such seemingly selfish tank is present.

VaranisArano

Jade1986 wrote: »

Are we talking pve or pvp????? Because tanking is comPLETELY different between the two, and I feel most people commenting are talking about pvp tank sets.

If you read the OP, the OP is asking for the best crafted tank sets and did not specify between PVE and PVP. If I had to guess, I'd guess PVE because most craftable tank sets are far better suited to PVE tanking. Now, we've wandered quite far from talking about crafted sets at times.

Jade1986

VaranisArano wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

You know, guys.. there are a lot of threads and conversation on tanks or tanking, such as this one. Of course, there are good, interesting, beneficial and insightful comments, and there are also wtf comments; such as "selfless tank." What the hell is this? I know there are always new lingos popping up for ESO, and who came up with this one?! Ha ha ha. Ideally, if you have to, then yes, using crafted set, such as what folks have mentioned on the thread here are fine. Any normal endgame content, rather soloing or in a group, i.e. undaunted dungeons (and even vet dungeons), and world boss pits, you will get away with and do fine with any tank; if you're actually tanking, that is. A hybrid tank that can actually adds some dps is quite beneficial as the third dpser against adds and mobs, particularly in vet dungeons. You can still taunt those higher hp adds with the Pierce Armor (you're also applying Major Breach,) and then switch to the dps bar and assist the actual dpser in knocking out those adds faster.
...
Ok, if other sets you've concocted up for a tank is working for you and the group, then, cool. However, there is nothing "selfless" about a tank and what a tank's job is; taunt, keep boss (and/or higher hp adds) at bay, applied breach and don't die. Cool, if a tank can provide extra perks, such as Torug's, but not necessary. Well.. to me, I can buff myself just fine, as a dpser, without the Torug from a tank, which is only small percentage-based, anyways.

"Selfless" and "Selfish" has nothing to do with the basic job of a tank.
As I like to say:
The basic job of a tank is to taunt the boss, hold boss aggro, and don't die. If you can do that, you are a tank.
A good tank taunts the boss, holds, boss aggro, doesn't die, holds the boss more or less still, debuffs the boss, buffs the group, and provides crowd control.

"Selfless" and "Selfish" is a shorthand for types of gear that cover one part of a good tank's job: buffing the group and to a lesser extent, debuffing the boss.

The clearest comparison is Plague Doctor with its beautiful health buff that only benefits the tank and Ebon Armory with its slightly less good health buff for the tank that also gives all the players in the group an extra 1k health. When put in terms of which gear set benefits the group the most, some players will say "Plague Doctor, because anything that makes my tank a better tank helps me fulfill my role in this group better" and some players will say "Ebon Armory, because I'm benefitting the rest of my group with that extra health and the DPS & healer(s) need that extra health more than I do." While its certain up for debate over whether either option is really selfish or selfless, I should hope that the reasoning for why each got its label is pretty clear.

In general, sets that benefit the tank and only the tank get the "selfish" label. Its not really called the tank selfish in a perjorative way though I'm sure it feels that way. Its totally valid to want to build your tank as strong and as self-sufficient as you want. Indeed, if you PUG vet randoms, I'd expect someone to build that way simply because of the nature of Vet Randoms. So the term "Selfish" refers to gear sets that benefit the tank and only the tank, which a better tank is better for the group.

In general, sets that benefit the tank and the group get the "selfless" label. A good tank is supporting the group with buffs and debuffs and although its certain possible to do that with only skills, many tanks will also do that with their gear. In competitive group content, this becomes almost a necessity, with tanks having more or less required gear to buff the group and debuff the boss. So the term "Selfless" refers to gear sets that benefit both tank and group, which a better group makes for an easier run.

Whether or not you should use "selfish" or "selfless" gear is up to you, your tank build, and the content you run. Most crafted and dropped tank sets are of the "selfish" variety as they benefit the tank and only the tank. Using those is not a bad thing! I used Whitestrake's Retribution when I was learning to tank and that damage shield saved me lots of times, enabling me to save my group. Same thing for Plague Doctor when I started running vet dungeons with my friends. I've since switched to Ebon Armory because I have enough pieces and my friends have some really squishy DPS so it helps our group have a smoother run, but you can absolutely be a good tank with plenty of buffs and debuffs without using the "selfless" gear choices to benefit your group.

Now, places where this "selfless" gear starts to get mandatory is when you get into larger groups and competitive content. The larger the group, the more benefit the buffs/debuffs give as well as the more cooperation required to complete content. There's a reason you see a healer in trials wearing Worm's Raiment, which reduces magicka costs for up to twelve players and there's a reason that one trials tank wears Ebon Armory. In a four man dungeon, Ebon Armory only gives 4K health which is minor in the face of things and why Ebon isn't the be-all, end-all set for dungeons. In a trial, Ebon Armory gives 12k health and allows the DPS to min-max their attributes and enchantments and still hit the desired 18k health.

I hope that helps explain that there's nothing really pejorative about "selfish" sets versus "selfless" sets as much as it is a way of categorizing gear for tanks based on the build philosophy.

Edited for spelling.

Are there any crafted sets good for being selfless, because from reading this i have seen a TON of dropped sets so far basically.

Delimber

From what I've seen, most tanks run something different than someone else.

If you are in a guild, ask them.

I like running two, 5 piece sets and a monster set. My Crafted set is Daedric Trickery, with leeching venom. But then, I've been tanking a long time.

If you are new to tanking, I thing some of the earlier suggestions should work just fine.

Jade1986

Delimber wrote: »

From what I've seen, most tanks run something different than someone else.

If you are in a guild, ask them.

I like running two, 5 piece sets and a monster set. My Crafted set is Daedric Trickery, with leeching venom. But then, I've been tanking a long time.

If you are new to tanking, I thing some of the earlier suggestions should work just fine.

I mean, I used to tank in hard mode and nightmare mode ops in swtor, and it was all about pretty much debuffing the enemy and protecting one person, while staying alive, that is pretty much how i have played it ( how you have to play it ) as a warden ice tank. All i have seen in this thread is advice for DK tanking mostly, almost null for warden tanks. And before you say you cant use them, yes, yes you can, it is just a far different style than dk and people just dont want to bother doing somethin gdifferent, same with warden healers.

Nelson_Rebel

Jade1986 wrote: »

Delimber wrote: »

From what I've seen, most tanks run something different than someone else.

If you are in a guild, ask them.

I like running two, 5 piece sets and a monster set. My Crafted set is Daedric Trickery, with leeching venom. But then, I've been tanking a long time.

If you are new to tanking, I thing some of the earlier suggestions should work just fine.

I mean, I used to tank in hard mode and nightmare mode ops in swtor, and it was all about pretty much debuffing the enemy and protecting one person, while staying alive, that is pretty much how i have played it ( how you have to play it ) as a warden ice tank. All i have seen in this thread is advice for DK tanking mostly, almost null for warden tanks. And before you say you cant use them, yes, yes you can, it is just a far different style than dk and people just dont want to bother doing somethin gdifferent, same with warden healers.

I think wether you're a warden tank or DK tank doesn't change the sets that much. As long as you use Ebon in 12 man Vet trials and some other buff set to assist your tanking in the group it doesn't change the way you tank if you maintain boss debufs (puncture, crushing enchant, minor maim) and you can keep him in place. While providing as needed group buffs with warhorn.


How you chose to make your tank effectively do so wether warden or DK doesn't change all that much between the two classes as far as I know

VaranisArano

Jade1986 wrote: »

Are there any crafted sets good for being selfless, because from reading this i have seen a TON of dropped sets so far basically.

It looks like Torug's Pact (3 trait) used with the crushing enchantment would count as a "selfless" set because you are using it to increase the uptime of a debuff you are putting on the boss or enemies.

Tava's Favor was a potent tool for generating ultimate usually used with Warhorn, before ZOS removed Shuffle from heavy armor. If you can make it work though, its still very good.

Nightmother's Gaze, though this is more often a DPS set, could be used as a tank set reducing the enemy's physical resistance.

Redistributor, probably only effective on a Warden tank/healer

Most of the crafted sets are of the "selfish" variety, and that's not a bad thing. Crafted sets are designed for all players to have access to them and so it makes sense that the crafted sets would lean more towards making a tank a better tank than group support. Sets like Hist Bark and Whitestrake's Retribution are both very good tank sets, they just take the idea that "If my tank is stronger, I can help the group more because I'm a better tank" than giving direct support to the group in terms of buff/debuffs. There's definitely a time and a place for that. I learned to tank using Whitestrakes, then got comfortable using Plague Doctor and only switched to Ebon Armory once we were farming Crypt of Hearts regularly.

GreenhaloX

VaranisArano wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

You know, guys.. there are a lot of threads and conversation on tanks or tanking, such as this one. Of course, there are good, interesting, beneficial and insightful comments, and there are also wtf comments; such as "selfless tank." What the hell is this? I know there are always new lingos popping up for ESO, and who came up with this one?! Ha ha ha. Ideally, if you have to, then yes, using crafted set, such as what folks have mentioned on the thread here are fine. Any normal endgame content, rather soloing or in a group, i.e. undaunted dungeons (and even vet dungeons), and world boss pits, you will get away with and do fine with any tank; if you're actually tanking, that is. A hybrid tank that can actually adds some dps is quite beneficial as the third dpser against adds and mobs, particularly in vet dungeons. You can still taunt those higher hp adds with the Pierce Armor (you're also applying Major Breach,) and then switch to the dps bar and assist the actual dpser in knocking out those adds faster.
...
Ok, if other sets you've concocted up for a tank is working for you and the group, then, cool. However, there is nothing "selfless" about a tank and what a tank's job is; taunt, keep boss (and/or higher hp adds) at bay, applied breach and don't die. Cool, if a tank can provide extra perks, such as Torug's, but not necessary. Well.. to me, I can buff myself just fine, as a dpser, without the Torug from a tank, which is only small percentage-based, anyways.

"Selfless" and "Selfish" has nothing to do with the basic job of a tank.
As I like to say:
The basic job of a tank is to taunt the boss, hold boss aggro, and don't die. If you can do that, you are a tank.
A good tank taunts the boss, holds, boss aggro, doesn't die, holds the boss more or less still, debuffs the boss, buffs the group, and provides crowd control.

"Selfless" and "Selfish" is a shorthand for types of gear that cover one part of a good tank's job: buffing the group and to a lesser extent, debuffing the boss.

The clearest comparison is Plague Doctor with its beautiful health buff that only benefits the tank and Ebon Armory with its slightly less good health buff for the tank that also gives all the players in the group an extra 1k health. When put in terms of which gear set benefits the group the most, some players will say "Plague Doctor, because anything that makes my tank a better tank helps me fulfill my role in this group better" and some players will say "Ebon Armory, because I'm benefitting the rest of my group with that extra health and the DPS & healer(s) need that extra health more than I do." While its certain up for debate over whether either option is really selfish or selfless, I should hope that the reasoning for why each got its label is pretty clear.

In general, sets that benefit the tank and only the tank get the "selfish" label. Its not really called the tank selfish in a perjorative way though I'm sure it feels that way. Its totally valid to want to build your tank as strong and as self-sufficient as you want. Indeed, if you PUG vet randoms, I'd expect someone to build that way simply because of the nature of Vet Randoms. So the term "Selfish" refers to gear sets that benefit the tank and only the tank, which a better tank is better for the group.

In general, sets that benefit the tank and the group get the "selfless" label. A good tank is supporting the group with buffs and debuffs and although its certain possible to do that with only skills, many tanks will also do that with their gear. In competitive group content, this becomes almost a necessity, with tanks having more or less required gear to buff the group and debuff the boss. So the term "Selfless" refers to gear sets that benefit both tank and group, which a better group makes for an easier run.

Whether or not you should use "selfish" or "selfless" gear is up to you, your tank build, and the content you run. Most crafted and dropped tank sets are of the "selfish" variety as they benefit the tank and only the tank. Using those is not a bad thing! I used Whitestrake's Retribution when I was learning to tank and that damage shield saved me lots of times, enabling me to save my group. Same thing for Plague Doctor when I started running vet dungeons with my friends. I've since switched to Ebon Armory because I have enough pieces and my friends have some really squishy DPS so it helps our group have a smoother run, but you can absolutely be a good tank with plenty of buffs and debuffs without using the "selfless" gear choices to benefit your group.

Now, places where this "selfless" gear starts to get mandatory is when you get into larger groups and competitive content. The larger the group, the more benefit the buffs/debuffs give as well as the more cooperation required to complete content. There's a reason you see a healer in trials wearing Worm's Raiment, which reduces magicka costs for up to twelve players and there's a reason that one trials tank wears Ebon Armory. In a four man dungeon, Ebon Armory only gives 4K health which is minor in the face of things and why Ebon isn't the be-all, end-all set for dungeons. In a trial, Ebon Armory gives 12k health and allows the DPS to min-max their attributes and enchantments and still hit the desired 18k health.

I hope that helps explain that there's nothing really pejorative about "selfish" sets versus "selfless" sets as much as it is a way of categorizing gear for tanks based on the build philosophy.

Edited for spelling.

Oh, my bad.. I actually edited my post. I meant "selfish" and not selfless. Still early morning here and need the coffee.. standard sugar and cream; no caramel macchiato needed here.

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Delimber wrote: »

From what I've seen, most tanks run something different than someone else.

If you are in a guild, ask them.

I like running two, 5 piece sets and a monster set. My Crafted set is Daedric Trickery, with leeching venom. But then, I've been tanking a long time.

If you are new to tanking, I thing some of the earlier suggestions should work just fine.

I mean, I used to tank in hard mode and nightmare mode ops in swtor, and it was all about pretty much debuffing the enemy and protecting one person, while staying alive, that is pretty much how i have played it ( how you have to play it ) as a warden ice tank. All i have seen in this thread is advice for DK tanking mostly, almost null for warden tanks. And before you say you cant use them, yes, yes you can, it is just a far different style than dk and people just dont want to bother doing somethin gdifferent, same with warden healers.

I think wether you're a warden tank or DK tank doesn't change the sets that much. As long as you use Ebon in 12 man Vet trials and some other buff set to assist your tanking in the group it doesn't change the way you tank if you maintain boss debufs (puncture, crushing enchant, minor maim) and you can keep him in place. While providing as needed group buffs with warhorn.


How you chose to make your tank effectively do so wether warden or DK doesn't change all that much between the two classes as far as I know

Yeah, whatever works for you.. but I had a Warden tank and didn't work for me. I prefer the Choking Talons, Burning Embers, Draw Essence, Hardened Armor and Magma Shell from the DK tank; just better survivability, to me, at least. Plus, the Igneous Shield is fairly good for a much higher hp DK tank and benefits the group fairly well. As with the Warden tank, the Healing Thicket is awesome for the group, and the Budding Seeds is also good, and it is a force to reckon with, if a pure S&B; however, for a hybrid build, it is just lesser survivability (for me, at least) than the DK tank. A hybrid DK tank, with its class abilities, is just a force to reckon with. It benefits the group very well as well as soloing. Heck, I'm able to knock out adds and mobs faster with my hybrid DK tank than many dd/dps toons. Ha ha

kylewwefan

A lot of focus on DK tank because it’s just plain easier to tank on them, and they are more explored maybe? So, sets that are great for DK tank may not be best for any other class.

It has been mentioned numerous times, but Tourgs is probably the best selfless crafted set for any Tank. There are tons of other sets you can pair it with to be effective still.

For about any PvE role in this game, every character will likely need a few sets to change between; to achieve as close they can get to group BiS....if that actually does exist.

Zerok

I don't like threads like this because there is no universal answer.

The truth is that, it depends on many factors:
- What kind of content do you intend on running? Your gear will differ if you're running pledges vs trials.
- What class are you tanking with? Some sets synergizes better with certain classes.
- What playstyle? Some sets will buff the DPS of your group at the cost of survivability. You must choose the right balance for you.

Once you know these factors, it becomes easier to identify the best sets for you.

If you're looking for crafted sets then the best ones would be Torug (group DPS) and Hist Bark (survivability). If you are a NB tank, you could also consider Tava.

Torug could be used for an end-game tank.
Tava could also be used for an end-game NB tank.
Hist Bark will not be used because it can be easily replaced with better survivability sets.

VaranisArano

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Oh, my bad.. I actually edited my post. I meant "selfish" and not selfless. Still early morning here and need the coffee.. standard sugar and cream; no caramel macchiato needed here.

No worries! There's lots of great "selfish" crafted sets for tanks that really help out the tank who just wants to be a better tank.

My favorite is Whitestrake's Retribution. That giant damage shield at 30% health is amazing for recovering from mistakes, blunting big hits from a boss, or rezzing fallen group members. It won't save you from one-shot abilities on Vet, but its great with most other damage sources. It also tells you when you are ready to move on. When you are good enough at tanking to not proc the shield very often, its a good sign you can move on to another set.

Hist Bark - grants major evasion when blocking giving you the chance not to take damage. Pretty nice! I haven't used it myself, but I know its a major tank set because of the evasion chance.

Fortified Brass - for when you absolutely, positively need a ton of physical and spell resistances from a crafted set. Great if you don't have access to monster helms with resistances yet.

Armor Master - get extra buffs for using an armor ability.

Most of the other sets will buff you in some ways and can be used effectively with various tank builds, but those are the crafted sets that stand out to me as tank sets.

Tasear

Best tanks change gear depending on the situation, so I am going to vote all.

Asardes

Anyone tried the CWC Livewire set? On paper it looks OK-ish but I don't know how good is in practice.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Livewire+Set