REMOVE SHIELD BREAKER !!!

Biro123

Sharee wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

So accusing the users of this set that "they just want easy kills" is nonsense. They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

inb4 arguments that you can backbar shieldbreaker....

Back bar is just as important for your overall fighting power as your main bar is. Dedicate backbar to something that only works against shield users, and your average fighting power will go down.

Could use that same argument for sharpened.. or spinners/spriggarns 5-piece, and there are plenty of people who don't run it because of the amount of shields that are around (and just as many who do because its still useful against a good number of opponents)
There are a LOT more shield users than just sorcs - and there are plenty of those helpful aoe shields too.

But the point is, you may get a 10% drop in ability with shieldbreaker against a non-shield user, but its a 200% increase against a shield user.. those figures are definitely skewed (and totally made-up, btw - but it illustrates a point.)

I mean if you compare spinners to sb.. spriggarns gives maybe a 6% dmg increase on non-shields? I can't remember the exact figure or formula. That is nowhere near on-par with the insane damage that sb pumps out vs shields.

The damage is not insane, and yes your numbers are totally made-up.

Lol. How is 2250 damage every 0.6 seconds NOT insane?

Viper (one of our highest damage 5-piece guaranteed proc proc-sets) is what, 2000 a second for 4 seconds now?

Lets compare damage over that 4 seconds.:

Viper = 8k
SB = 4/0.6 x 2250 = 15,000

But don't forget, Viper IS affected by battle-spirit, SB isn't... but viper is also boosted by cp - so lets give it a nice 20% boost from that: sooo Viper = 4.8k, melee only, sb = 15K any range

And I'm not even adding that viper is further reduced by resists/major and minor protection - SB is not.

How is that NOT insane?

Viper works against every target, shieldbreaker does not. So any comparison MUST come up with shieldbreaker against shields doing more damage than viper in general for there to be any balance between the two. Otherwise everyone would just use viper.

And sorry, ~3700 DPS is far from insane in an environment where you can get bursted from 100 to 0 faster than you break free.

Well we'll just have to disagree on that then.. imho when it's pressure damage that ignores all the usual defences that stop you getting bursted from 100 to 0, and all comes from just a single 5-piece bonus, as opposed to a whole build + class skills + timing which goes into bursting someone down from 100 to 0... I just don't really know what else to say.

Keep in mind that shieldbreaker does not ignore all usual defenses, it only ignores shields. That means your performance heavily depends on what targets you encounter. Using your numbers above (shieldbreaker doing 3x the damage of viper), for a shieldbreaker to even be on par with viper, one out of every three opponents you fight would have to be a shield user.

Dunno about you, but i see far less enemies using shield than one out of every three. Stamblade, stamblade, permablocker, unkillable templar (unti it becomes 6v1), then a sorc that bolts-bolts-bolts away as soon as his burst doesn't oneshot me...

actually *fighting* a shieldstacker long enough for SB to make a difference is very, very rare.

it does... its oblivion damage which ignores resists - I *believe* it ignores block too (unlike the glyphs that weren't proccing when blocked) - not sure. I don't tend to often run sorc builds that rely on block much - the only thing available to deal with oblivion damage is healing and avoidance - the 2 things which sorcs have very little of. Using block/dodge one a mag build to handle constant 0.6 sec hits (as opposed to avoiding burst only) is a very fast trip to being out of stam and cc-locked.

Do you remember the outcry of infused oblivion glyphs on pts - and they nerfed the glyph cos they thought it was too strong? SB not only hits more often, but it hits harder too.
I mean lets look at what common heals can deal with it shall we?

mutagen does 9-1.2k per tick.. lets say 1k. surge is around 1k when it procs. assuming you spend half your time in offence, and half of that crits, but you're ani-cancelling - so 2 hits/sec then we're looking at ~500/sec. Hm, what next..? Well I've bee using combat prayer lately, which gives me a 'burst' heal of between 2.2k and 4.3k (depending on crits, buffs/debuffs etc..) so lets say, 3k.
So if you already have mutagen and surge up, and use combat prayer every other cd, with an attack inbetween (for surge), healing will be 1k + 1.5k + 3k/2 = 4k. it *JUST* deals with the shieldbreaker damage alone.

3 slots for heals to only *just* deal with the shieldbreaker damage - never mind any other damage coming in...

Sharee

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

They don't "just want easy kills". They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

1. Has two different sets of gear (is typically a nb) and will switch to his shieldbreaker setup in sneak when they´ll encounter a sorc. Absolutely no drawback.

...

So yeah - i think they description of looking for an easy win is perfectly valid to describe the situation. There is no real drawback bc people are not stuck to one set of gear - especially on sneak builds.

Don't you think its kinda unfair to blanket label all shieldbreaker users as "looking for easy win with no drawback" when the "no drawback" actually comes from using an addon that allows one-button gear switching, and not the shieldbreaker?

Urza1234

Biro123 wrote: »

it does... its oblivion damage which ignores resists - I *believe* it ignores block too (unlike the glyphs that weren't proccing when blocked) - not sure.

It doesnt, or rather, oblivion damage does ignore resists and block, but shield breaker it only triggers on enemies with shields, thus it really only counters one defensive type.

Biro123

Urza1234 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

it does... its oblivion damage which ignores resists - I *believe* it ignores block too (unlike the glyphs that weren't proccing when blocked) - not sure.

It doesnt, or rather, oblivion damage does ignore resists and block, but shield breaker it only triggers on enemies with shields, thus it really only counters one defensive type.

Yeah, but the point is, when you are shielded - you cannot suddenly turn it off - so how do you deal with the sb damage? Block? I honesty don't know if it works or not - cos I don't have the stam to block every half second to try it.

but it sounds like if you have that shield up and try to block the SB damage, it won't work cos oblivion.

Rickter

wait you want sympathy. . . for sorcs?

Sanctum74

There's plenty of counters available, but people don't want to adjust their builds, bar slots, or play style. Personally I think its a cheesy set like all proc sets, but in all reality it does not pose any threat to a skilled player unless they are getting zerged down. If your not willing to make adjustments to deal with certain threats then you really have no right to complain about it.

Biro123

Sanctum74 wrote: »

There's plenty of counters available, but people don't want to adjust their builds, bar slots, or play style. Personally I think its a cheesy set like all proc sets, but in all reality it does not pose any threat to a skilled player unless they are getting zerged down. If your not willing to make adjustments to deal with certain threats then you really have no right to complain about it.

Still not seeing any adjustments that can deal with it that don't totally gut the class for every other opponent.

Also, haven't yet seen a SB user that hasn't been part of an xv1.

Feanor

Sanctum74 wrote: »

There's plenty of counters available, but people don't want to adjust their builds, bar slots, or play style. Personally I think its a cheesy set like all proc sets, but in all reality it does not pose any threat to a skilled player unless they are getting zerged down. If your not willing to make adjustments to deal with certain threats then you really have no right to complain about it.

If that’s true, then all everyone can do is playing a tank with 30k+ health and no damage. It’s a funny advice to spec into health when Sorc‘s Damage is so heavily tied to Max Magicka. Sure. I can invest into health and run around with 30k. I have to do like all others and zerg then to kill anything. Besides, any loss of Magicka is a loss of shield strength. What you gain through health you lose on mitigation.

If zos finally would rework shields in a sensible manner all these discussions were moot.

Sanctum74

Feanor wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

There's plenty of counters available, but people don't want to adjust their builds, bar slots, or play style. Personally I think its a cheesy set like all proc sets, but in all reality it does not pose any threat to a skilled player unless they are getting zerged down. If your not willing to make adjustments to deal with certain threats then you really have no right to complain about it.

If that’s true, then all everyone can do is playing a tank with 30k+ health and no damage. It’s a funny advice to spec into health when Sorc‘s Damage is so heavily tied to Max Magicka. Sure. I can invest into health and run around with 30k. I have to do like all others and zerg then to kill anything. Besides, any loss of Magicka is a loss of shield strength. What you gain through health you lose on mitigation.

If zos finally would rework shields in a sensible manner all these discussions were moot.

Never said anything about making a 30k health tank build. I said a well rounded build with health, magic, stamina, resistances, buffs, and hots. You also have streak to reset the fight.

If you're just going to build into 1 spec and strictly rely on shields for defense then that's your choice, but you have to understand it has limitations.

Other then being zerged down or just standing there I guess I just can't understand how people are dying from this set.

Derra

Sharee wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

They don't "just want easy kills". They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

1. Has two different sets of gear (is typically a nb) and will switch to his shieldbreaker setup in sneak when they´ll encounter a sorc. Absolutely no drawback.

...

So yeah - i think they description of looking for an easy win is perfectly valid to describe the situation. There is no real drawback bc people are not stuck to one set of gear - especially on sneak builds.

Don't you think its kinda unfair to blanket label all shieldbreaker users as "looking for easy win with no drawback" when the "no drawback" actually comes from using an addon that allows one-button gear switching, and not the shieldbreaker?

Well i haven´t met one player that didn´t fit into either of the two types i´ve described.

Since i pvp a lot i´d make the bold statement that atleast for PCEU the person running shieldbreaker permanently (not inside a huge zerg) accepting it as a drawback against non shieldbuilds is the minority - if they exist at all (which i still find doubtful because i know most if not all capable soloplayers).

So while you can theorize a lot about SB users not looking for an (Che)easy win - my practical experience strongly suggests otherwise. In fact i often meet players that after the first encounter do equip shieldbreaker.

Sharee

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

They don't "just want easy kills". They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

1. Has two different sets of gear (is typically a nb) and will switch to his shieldbreaker setup in sneak when they´ll encounter a sorc. Absolutely no drawback.

...

So yeah - i think they description of looking for an easy win is perfectly valid to describe the situation. There is no real drawback bc people are not stuck to one set of gear - especially on sneak builds.

Don't you think its kinda unfair to blanket label all shieldbreaker users as "looking for easy win with no drawback" when the "no drawback" actually comes from using an addon that allows one-button gear switching, and not the shieldbreaker?

Well i haven´t met one player that didn´t fit into either of the two types i´ve described.

Since i pvp a lot i´d make the bold statement that atleast for PCEU the person running shieldbreaker permanently (not inside a huge zerg) accepting it as a drawback against non shieldbuilds is the minority - if they exist at all (which i still find doubtful because i know most if not all capable soloplayers).

So while you can theorize a lot about SB users not looking for an (Che)easy win - my practical experience strongly suggests otherwise. In fact i often meet players that after the first encounter do equip shieldbreaker.

When a player with shieldbreaker attacks you from sneak, you have no way to know how long he has been wearing the set prior to the attack. Thus, your bold statement does not make sense.

Derra

Sharee wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

They don't "just want easy kills". They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

1. Has two different sets of gear (is typically a nb) and will switch to his shieldbreaker setup in sneak when they´ll encounter a sorc. Absolutely no drawback.

...

So yeah - i think they description of looking for an easy win is perfectly valid to describe the situation. There is no real drawback bc people are not stuck to one set of gear - especially on sneak builds.

Don't you think its kinda unfair to blanket label all shieldbreaker users as "looking for easy win with no drawback" when the "no drawback" actually comes from using an addon that allows one-button gear switching, and not the shieldbreaker?

Well i haven´t met one player that didn´t fit into either of the two types i´ve described.

Since i pvp a lot i´d make the bold statement that atleast for PCEU the person running shieldbreaker permanently (not inside a huge zerg) accepting it as a drawback against non shieldbuilds is the minority - if they exist at all (which i still find doubtful because i know most if not all capable soloplayers).

So while you can theorize a lot about SB users not looking for an (Che)easy win - my practical experience strongly suggests otherwise. In fact i often meet players that after the first encounter do equip shieldbreaker.

When a player with shieldbreaker attacks you from sneak, you have no way to know how long he has been wearing the set prior to the attack. Thus, your bold statement does not make sense.

It makes sense when you take into account the later statement that i often times meet people that equip shieldbreaker after i fought them.
Also i generally know most people that run around solo or in small groups.

On top of that i usually talk to people i fight because i love exposing their hypocrisy when they claim they need shieldbreaker against shieldstacking op sorcs - which is a pretty rich statement to make against a sorc that only has hardened ward slotted.

If it wasn´t against naming and shaming i could name 15 to 20 players wearing shieldbreaker because they´re looking for cheap kills. I don´t know one that always wears it (and doesn´t zerg or exclusively attacks shielded targets).

Drakkdjinn

"How DARE you out cheese my cheese"

-Every shieldbreaker thread on the forums.

Vizier

Umm... No.

WreckfulAbandon

NB's and Sorcs both have to deal with skills and mechanics that break their core functions: Mark Target, Detect Pots, Mage Light, Shieldbreaker. Then we have the fact that cloak breaks all the time for nothing, and shields only last 6 seconds. Shields got nothing to compensate being nerfed from 20 to 6 seconds.

Sorc easy mode class huh? I'm starting to really lose respect for DK's, Templars, and especially Wardens who say that. If you're a DK, Temp, or Warden you should hardly ever die, you have so many class tools to stay alive, stfu about Sorcs and NB's

Lord_Invel

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

NB's and Sorcs both have to deal with skills and mechanics that break their core functions: Mark Target, Detect Pots, Mage Light, Shieldbreaker. Then we have the fact that cloak breaks all the time for nothing, and shields only last 6 seconds. Shields got nothing to compensate being nerfed from 20 to 6 seconds.

Sorc easy mode class huh? I'm starting to really lose respect for DK's, Templars, and especially Wardens who say that. If you're a DK, Temp, or Warden you should hardly ever die, you have so many class tools to stay alive, stfu about Sorcs and NB's

@WreckfulAbandon DUDE GOD BLESS YOU MY GOOD MAN.... GOD BLESS YOU!

Tormy

Shieldbreaker is honestly weak and should probably get a buff

Alpheu5

Biro123 wrote: »

So to compare with other classes who combine heals with mitigation/blocking.. Where is the sorc heal or anytime that allows for sword n shield use?
Can't throw out heals while on the snb bar like a magplar - or any stam class for that matter.. can't instead use resto fo rthe heals and snb for defence.. cos where does the offence come from?

Sorcs are simply forced into either dw/resto or desto/resto - and therefore shields for defence. There is no choice.
Either a single class spammable that could be used with snb - or a class heal that can be used with snb would resolve it - but there isn't one - not that relies on shield to keep a pet alive (defeating the object) - or that is interuptable and stops you from blocking for 1.4 seconds to cast..

Many sorcs would be happy to drop shields if any of the others were an option. But there isn't. There simply isn't a solo magsorc build out there that can survive without relying on shields, while still have a hope in hell of killing someone.

@Biro123 I take issue with this comment, but the bolded part in particular. I've been using approximately the same destro/S&B setup for over a year now and am not this fragile crystal that you make the build out to be, being blasted away at the slightest pressure. I am in no way saying that what I do is anywhere near the pinnacle of sorcerer excellence, but I can hold my own ground assuming top-tier players aren't beating up on me. And in more manageable situations where I don't need to focus on defense there's still enough damage-dealing potential to put up a fight.

Excuse the supposition, but what I gather from the multiple times you've said you've tried out all these different builds is that you're not spending enough time refining a build and instead are theorycrafting something, trying it for a few hours/days, concluding that it doesn't play as well as your previous build, and then go back to whatever your last effective build was. Without getting too high on my soapbox, it took me almost 4 months to go from 2 Skoria, 5 Kagrenac's, 3 Willpower, and 2 Endurance during early Dark Brotherhood to 2/1 Shadowrend, 1 Kena, 5 Necropotence, 5 Lich during One Tamriel, about 7 iterations of my front bar, and a whole lot of dying to figure out how to survive open-world fights. Every build has its cruxes and it's on the user to figure out how to compensate.

As for saying all damage and sustain is sacrificed when wearing heavy armor:

That's a Resto/S&B heavy setup that's next in line for the I-Don't-Really-Know-What-I'm-Doing Campaign of Arbitrary Builds (iCAB).

On topic, Shieldbreaker is outrageously annoying because there's no way to counter its effects once your shields are up and they start firing. If anything (and to make it better fit the "breaker" part of its name) it should make light and heavy attacks deal considerable damage to the wards themselves instead of applying directly to health.

olsborg

Id be all for changing shieldbreaker into dmg to the shield. Also shieldstacking shouldnt have been possible since day 1, its been broken since day 1, sure its not as broken now as it once used to be, but its still over performing as a game mechanic imo.

Biro123

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

So to compare with other classes who combine heals with mitigation/blocking.. Where is the sorc heal or anytime that allows for sword n shield use?
Can't throw out heals while on the snb bar like a magplar - or any stam class for that matter.. can't instead use resto fo rthe heals and snb for defence.. cos where does the offence come from?

Sorcs are simply forced into either dw/resto or desto/resto - and therefore shields for defence. There is no choice.
Either a single class spammable that could be used with snb - or a class heal that can be used with snb would resolve it - but there isn't one - not that relies on shield to keep a pet alive (defeating the object) - or that is interuptable and stops you from blocking for 1.4 seconds to cast..

Many sorcs would be happy to drop shields if any of the others were an option. But there isn't. There simply isn't a solo magsorc build out there that can survive without relying on shields, while still have a hope in hell of killing someone.

@Biro123 I take issue with this entire, but the bolded part in particular. I've been using approximately the same destro/S&B setup for over a year now and am not this fragile crystal that you make the build out to be, being blasted away at the slightest pressure. I am in no way saying that what I do is anywhere near the pinnacle of sorcerer excellence, but I can hold my own ground assuming top-tier players aren't beating up on me. And in more manageable situations where I don't need to focus on defense there's still enough damage-dealing potential to put up a fight.

Excuse the supposition, but what I gather from the multiple times you've said you've tried out all these different builds is that you're not spending enough time refining a build and instead are theorycrafting something, trying it for a few hours/days, concluding that it doesn't play as well as your previous build, and then go back to whatever your last effective build was. Without getting too high on my soapbox, it took me almost 4 months to go from 2 Skoria, 5 Kagrenac's, 3 Willpower, and 2 Endurance during early Dark Brotherhood to 2/1 Shadowrend, 1 Kena, 5 Necropotence, 5 Lich during One Tamriel, about 7 iterations of my front bar, and a whole lot of dying to figure out how to survive open-world fights. Every build has its cruxes and it's on the user to figure out how to compensate.

As for saying all damage and sustain is sacrificed when wearing heavy armor:

That's a Resto/S&B heavy setup that's next in line for the I-Don't-Really-Know-What-I'm-Doing Campaign of Arbitrary Builds (iCAB).

On topic, Shieldbreaker is outrageously annoying because there's no way to counter its effects once your shields are up and they start firing. If anything (and to make it better fit the "breaker" part of its name) it should make light and heavy attacks deal considerable damage to the wards themselves instead of applying directly to health.

You're possibly right on time spent with them. And an even bigger problem with that is the actual time spent in combat specifically against SB.

That's a very weird looking set of stats there. Probably the highest spelldmg I've seen (especially without DW or 2-hanfer) which can solve the problem of having no spammable,
even with the loss of pen and crit from losing light (How'd you get it that high?). Good passive defence, but man, that recovery! I struggle to see how it would be possible to sustain either offence, defence, or mobility for any period of time.
Would be interesting to see how it plays.

fred4

This isn't just about sorcs. I play a light armor magblade, who relies on shields (Harness + Healing Ward). I was attacked by a single stamblade, wearing Shield Breaker. This was a good player. His strategy was to spam light attacks until I would be forced to drop the shield, then jump in with the usual NB combos, such as Ambush -> Incap -> Surprise Attack. Competent stamblades are extremely dangerous to me, even without Shield Breaker. A single well-timed burst / CC of theirs can already tear down my shield and kill me.

I use Swallow Soul and was trying Healthy Offering at the time. Healthy Offering is a heal that will crit in the region of 2K to 3K per second. It can - just (doesn't always crit, obviously) - offset Shield Breaker, but it is tricky to manage. Swallow Soul does not actually heal a lot in PvP. I typically see ticks in the range of 700 (non crit) to 1400 (crit) against players every 2 seconds. Also note that the HOT from Healthy Offering merely offsetting Shield Breaker is not enough, as you'll end up killing yourself with that skill.

Basically Shield Breaker is insane pressure, added to already insane pressure I face from competent stamblades 1v1. I don't encounter it often, and I freely admit that I have not practiced how to deal with it. At the same time I can't help feeling that Shield Breaker is utter BS. My only defense against stamblade burst is judicious use of the shield. Take that away, and I can only try and avoid the stamblade altogether. Once engaged, this was made difficult by us marking each other.

My build is not crap. It is not a complete glass cannon. I am in light armor, with low health (21K in CP), but I use Riposte, Blood Spawn, Harness, Healing Ward, resto ult, and Swallow Soul. I am full CP. My playstyle is not merely to gank people, but I can brawl in an AvA and win the occasional 1v2 or 3 against semi-competent players. I have played this game for over 2 years, with the past year spent mostly in solo PvP.

enzoisadog

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Then they better remove shield stacking as well.

Shields are a sorc class skill you don't counter that by adding shieldbreaker and oblivion mechanics. You counter it by being a good player and actually practicing at playing the game.

The only reason why I run Shieldbreaker sometimes is because there are always sorcs trying to Xv1 me.
Its the same thing as mark, flare and detect pots countering cloak.

Biro123

enzoisadog wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Then they better remove shield stacking as well.

Shields are a sorc class skill you don't counter that by adding shieldbreaker and oblivion mechanics. You counter it by being a good player and actually practicing at playing the game.

The only reason why I run Shieldbreaker sometimes is because there are always sorcs trying to Xv1 me.
Its the same thing as mark, flare and detect pots countering cloak.

it is and it isn't..

Magblade has access to cloak and shields and decent background heals. Mark only removes one of those defences.

Sorc gets shields, shields and poor background heals.. SB removes 2 and overpowers the third.

Arkangeloski

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Then they better remove shield stacking as well.

makes no sense. What will sorcs use if they remove shield stacking ? Shields are a sorc class skill you don't counter that by adding shieldbreaker and oblivion mechanics. You counter it by being a good player and actually practicing at playing the game. Shieldbreaker is a stupid mechanic.

Why sorcs always cry about stacking shields? Blah blah blah lol listen i play a magic toon every now and then is a magicka nb and im fine just running with harness magicka and s.soul for heals and thats it... "harnes hardened and healing ward" not including sets that add extra shields, ive seen sorcs stack up to 4 shields and that is why shield braker exist... But hey look at the bright side! Every toon that rocks shield braker is out to kill you and only you wich means it will be garbage against anything else. Get a pocket healer and stomp them.

fred4

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Im fine just running with harness magicka and s.soul for heals and thats it.

Any 2v1, or even just a duel against a competent opponent, and you will be slaughtered.

Get a pocket healer and stomp them.

Right, so you are a group player. Some of us are solo players. An organised group, or simply one with sufficient numbers, trumps everything else. We know that.

Arkangeloski

fred4 wrote: »

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Im fine just running with harness magicka and s.soul for heals and thats it.

Any 2v1, or even just a duel against a competent opponent, and you will be slaughtered.

Get a pocket healer and stomp them.

Right, so you are a group player. Some of us are solo players. An organised group, or simply one with sufficient numbers, trumps everything else. We know that.

Im not a group player, solo/small group 3 to 4 max. But now days everybody runs in groups of 15 ppl or zurf in betwen zergs... so just having a pocket healer with you it would not be as offensive

fred4

I'm confused. What exactly is a "pocket" healer?

enzoisadog

fred4 wrote: »

I'm confused. What exactly is a "pocket" healer?

When you have someone healing you 24/7.

enzoisadog

Biro123 wrote: »

enzoisadog wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Then they better remove shield stacking as well.

Shields are a sorc class skill you don't counter that by adding shieldbreaker and oblivion mechanics. You counter it by being a good player and actually practicing at playing the game.

The only reason why I run Shieldbreaker sometimes is because there are always sorcs trying to Xv1 me.
Its the same thing as mark, flare and detect pots countering cloak.

it is and it isn't..

Magblade has access to cloak and shields and decent background heals. Mark only removes one of those defences.

Sorc gets shields, shields and poor background heals.. SB removes 2 and overpowers the third.

Some ppl rely on cloak cause they run low recovery or for example a ganker that has no defense besides cloak

Derra

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Get a pocket healer and stomp them.

I don´t think mechanics that are an almost guaranteed loss in a 1v1 encounter (given comparable skill of the opponents) are healthy for the games pvp in general.
Hardcounters have no place in pvp - especially if that pvp gives you the option to only attack targets you hardcounter (as in being permanently invisible).