REMOVE SHIELD BREAKER !!!

Feanor

Maikon wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

How is a single shield ability a class defining defense? Do you not wear any armor?

Is that really a serious question?

Maikon

Feanor wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

How is a single shield ability a class defining defense? Do you not wear any armor?

Is that really a serious question?

You said Class defining defense, sorc only has 1 class specific shield. So if that 1 single skill is all you use for defense in pvp, then you're gonna fail anyways.

Also, all the classes have access to and use shields, yet you don't see any of them crying about shield breaker, only sorcs.

Feanor

Maikon wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

How is a single shield ability a class defining defense? Do you not wear any armor?

Is that really a serious question?

You said Class defining defense, sorc only has 1 class specific shield. So if that 1 single skill is all you use for defense in pvp, then you're gonna fail anyways.

Also, all the classes have access to and use shields, yet you don't see any of them crying about shield breaker, only sorcs.

First of all, stacking Hardened Ward and Harness Magicka is not mandatory. You can do just fine with running Hardened or Empowered Ward and Healing Ward.

Second you might think a bit and arrive st the answer to your question yourself. Other classes don’t have to rely on shields as Sorcs do. They either have superior healing (Templar/Warden), stealth (NB), or higher mitigation (DK). So if they use Harness magicka as shield it’s just adding to their defense. Sorc has none of that.

I’m not requesting a Shieldbreaker change. Just pointing out the set is bad design.

Sanctum74

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Then they better remove shield stacking as well.

makes no sense. What will sorcs use if they remove shield stacking ? Shields are a sorc class skill you don't counter that by adding shieldbreaker and oblivion mechanics. You counter it by being a good player and actually practicing at playing the game. Shieldbreaker is a stupid mechanic.

Great advice, maybe you should practice some more, use some of the many counters available to you, and then you will realize the set is nothing to worry about and never has been. If you're only relying on shields for defense then that's your problem, not shield breaker.

Without using resto you have access to 2 heal over times and a burst heal. You could also slot resto for 2 additional heal over times, another burst heal, and an ultimate heal.

You have 3 bars to add skills so I don't wanna hear you don't have room.

You also have streak to reset a fight on your terms. You have 4 stuns and 2 immoblize skills just in your skill line alone.

You could also pressure the person by actually fighting back.

Really! How many counters do you need?

Maikon

Feanor wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

How is a single shield ability a class defining defense? Do you not wear any armor?

Is that really a serious question?

You said Class defining defense, sorc only has 1 class specific shield. So if that 1 single skill is all you use for defense in pvp, then you're gonna fail anyways.

Also, all the classes have access to and use shields, yet you don't see any of them crying about shield breaker, only sorcs.

First of all, stacking Hardened Ward and Harness Magicka is not mandatory. You can do just fine with running Hardened or Empowered Ward and Healing Ward.

Second you might think a bit and arrive st the answer to your question yourself. Other classes don’t have to rely on shields as Sorcs do. They either have superior healing (Templar/Warden), stealth (NB), or higher mitigation (DK). So if they use Harness magicka as shield it’s just adding to their defense. Sorc has none of that.

I’m not requesting a Shieldbreaker change. Just pointing out the set is bad design.

Sorcs don't need to rely on shields. I've seen some sorcs 1vX without using a single shield and destroy the competition. It's all a matter of convenience.

But as I've said before, they should put all shields on a global CD, then most won't run the set. It was only made to counter sorcs shield stacking in the first place.

Biro123

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Then they better remove shield stacking as well.

makes no sense. What will sorcs use if they remove shield stacking ? Shields are a sorc class skill you don't counter that by adding shieldbreaker and oblivion mechanics. You counter it by being a good player and actually practicing at playing the game. Shieldbreaker is a stupid mechanic.

Great advice, maybe you should practice some more, use some of the many counters available to you, and then you will realize the set is nothing to worry about and never has been. If you're only relying on shields for defense then that's your problem, not shield breaker.

Without using resto you have access to 2 heal over times and a burst heal. You could also slot resto for 2 additional heal over times, another burst heal, and an ultimate heal.

You have 3 bars to add skills so I don't wanna hear you don't have room.

You also have streak to reset a fight on your terms. You have 4 stuns and 2 immoblize skills just in your skill line alone.

You could also pressure the person by actually fighting back.

Really! How many counters do you need?

So to compare with other classes who combine heals with mitigation/blocking.. Where is the sorc heal or anytime that allows for sword n shield use?
Can't throw out heals while on the snb bar like a magplar - or any stam class for that matter.. can't instead use resto fo rthe heals and snb for defence.. cos where does the offence come from?

Sorcs are simply forced into either dw/resto or desto/resto - and therefore shields for defence. There is no choice.
Either a single class spammable that could be used with snb - or a class heal that can be used with snb would resolve it - but there isn't one - not that relies on shield to keep a pet alive (defeating the object) - or that is interuptable and stops you from blocking for 1.4 seconds to cast..

Many sorcs would be happy to drop shields if any of the others were an option. But there isn't. There simply isn't a solo magsorc build out there that can survive without relying on shields, while still have a hope in hell of killing someone.

Sanctum74

Biro123 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Then they better remove shield stacking as well.

makes no sense. What will sorcs use if they remove shield stacking ? Shields are a sorc class skill you don't counter that by adding shieldbreaker and oblivion mechanics. You counter it by being a good player and actually practicing at playing the game. Shieldbreaker is a stupid mechanic.

Great advice, maybe you should practice some more, use some of the many counters available to you, and then you will realize the set is nothing to worry about and never has been. If you're only relying on shields for defense then that's your problem, not shield breaker.

Without using resto you have access to 2 heal over times and a burst heal. You could also slot resto for 2 additional heal over times, another burst heal, and an ultimate heal.

You have 3 bars to add skills so I don't wanna hear you don't have room.

You also have streak to reset a fight on your terms. You have 4 stuns and 2 immoblize skills just in your skill line alone.

You could also pressure the person by actually fighting back.

Really! How many counters do you need?

So to compare with other classes who combine heals with mitigation/blocking.. Where is the sorc heal or anytime that allows for sword n shield use?
Can't throw out heals while on the snb bar like a magplar - or any stam class for that matter.. can't instead use resto fo rthe heals and snb for defence.. cos where does the offence come from?

Sorcs are simply forced into either dw/resto or desto/resto - and therefore shields for defence. There is no choice.
Either a single class spammable that could be used with snb - or a class heal that can be used with snb would resolve it - but there isn't one - not that relies on shield to keep a pet alive (defeating the object) - or that is interuptable and stops you from blocking for 1.4 seconds to cast..

Many sorcs would be happy to drop shields if any of the others were an option. But there isn't. There simply isn't a solo magsorc build out there that can survive without relying on shields, while still have a hope in hell of killing someone.

Sorcs aren't forced into any builds, they just tend to follow the standard youtube or meta builds and they do have limitations like all builds do. When you take passives into account and the fact that you can enchant a shield with a magic glyph which increases damage and shields, there is really not much difference damage wise between the 3 set ups(dual,snb,destro) A snb also allows you to go impen for more tankiness.

I know it's not the meta, but if you build with some health, stamina, impen, and resistances then your survival will go way up for when your shields go down, and they will go down.

Ok enough about builds and on to the heals. For hots you have power/crit surge, entropy/degeneration, and if you stay on the offensive frags also heals you. Any of those skills can be used without requiring a certain weapon set up.

Surge and frags should keep you healed behind your shield. You could also add degeneration which can be placed on multiple opponents and also has chance to heal even more with light and heavy attacks.

For burst heal you have dark deal/conversion. As far as being interupptable that's what streak is for. Get distance and/or stun them to get your heal off. If your running a pet build then each pet also has a heal morph available.

You also have resto available which obviously requires a certain set up, but it does give you more burst heal and hot options that can be mixed with the above skills for a sorc that doesn't have to rely on shields all the time.

Biro123

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Then they better remove shield stacking as well.

makes no sense. What will sorcs use if they remove shield stacking ? Shields are a sorc class skill you don't counter that by adding shieldbreaker and oblivion mechanics. You counter it by being a good player and actually practicing at playing the game. Shieldbreaker is a stupid mechanic.

Great advice, maybe you should practice some more, use some of the many counters available to you, and then you will realize the set is nothing to worry about and never has been. If you're only relying on shields for defense then that's your problem, not shield breaker.

Without using resto you have access to 2 heal over times and a burst heal. You could also slot resto for 2 additional heal over times, another burst heal, and an ultimate heal.

You have 3 bars to add skills so I don't wanna hear you don't have room.

You also have streak to reset a fight on your terms. You have 4 stuns and 2 immoblize skills just in your skill line alone.

You could also pressure the person by actually fighting back.

Really! How many counters do you need?

So to compare with other classes who combine heals with mitigation/blocking.. Where is the sorc heal or anytime that allows for sword n shield use?
Can't throw out heals while on the snb bar like a magplar - or any stam class for that matter.. can't instead use resto fo rthe heals and snb for defence.. cos where does the offence come from?

Sorcs are simply forced into either dw/resto or desto/resto - and therefore shields for defence. There is no choice.
Either a single class spammable that could be used with snb - or a class heal that can be used with snb would resolve it - but there isn't one - not that relies on shield to keep a pet alive (defeating the object) - or that is interuptable and stops you from blocking for 1.4 seconds to cast..

Many sorcs would be happy to drop shields if any of the others were an option. But there isn't. There simply isn't a solo magsorc build out there that can survive without relying on shields, while still have a hope in hell of killing someone.

Sorcs aren't forced into any builds, they just tend to follow the standard youtube or meta builds and they do have limitations like all builds do. When you take passives into account and the fact that you can enchant a shield with a magic glyph which increases damage and shields, there is really not much difference damage wise between the 3 set ups(dual,snb,destro) A snb also allows you to go impen for more tankiness.

I know it's not the meta, but if you build with some health, stamina, impen, and resistances then your survival will go way up for when your shields go down, and they will go down.

Ok enough about builds and on to the heals. For hots you have power/crit surge, entropy/degeneration, and if you stay on the offensive frags also heals you. Any of those skills can be used without requiring a certain weapon set up.

Surge and frags should keep you healed behind your shield. You could also add degeneration which can be placed on multiple opponents and also has chance to heal even more with light and heavy attacks.

For burst heal you have dark deal/conversion. As far as being interupptable that's what streak is for. Get distance and/or stun them to get your heal off. If your running a pet build then each pet also has a heal morph available.

You also have resto available which obviously requires a certain set up, but it does give you more burst heal and hot options that can be mixed with the above skills for a sorc that doesn't have to rely on shields all the time.

I disagree - sorcs ARE forced into certain builds. Because believe me, I've tried for a long time to break the meta with them and had nothing but terrible results. I've tried heavy armour with snb. Heals were not enough and sustain was terrible without sacrificing all your damage (so effectively going full tank). I've used pet builds, non-pet builds. I've gone DW builds, destro builds.. Destro front/dw back, 2-handed/bow builds, overload builds. Max magic, mixed stat builds, hybrid builds. You name it, I've tried it. I'm currently using a light armour build that can hit 23k resists with decent impen, but it still needs shield because the combination of healing/mitigation just isn't there.

On heals..

Not enough.

Surge is a poor pvp heal - especially when you're on the defensive (and need heals) - since you're not attacking every cd, and definitely not critting every cd. Degeneration overlaps with surge for providing major sorcery. ALL sorc builds are strained for slots, and so many already rely on pots for major sorcery. Using both of these is most definitely not optimal, and even together, they are not a reliable heal - they are just random background healing. Frags again is a random 8% heal (halved for battle spirit, I believe - so on average an 8-1000 heal every 6 seconds or so).
The point with heals is that they have to be reliable, on-demand - they cannot rely on random procs, or % chance of you do damage.. heals like that get you killed.
Streak isn't always an instant.. 'oh, you can dark-deal to your hearts content' button. A simple gap-close has you back where you were - but with less health and now an increased cost streak.. And again, a heal that you have to 'set up' to be able to use is a heal that gets you killed.
Pets? yes, pets have heals.. but how do you keep the pets alive? well I'll tell you. You have to shield them!!! There is simply no getting away from shields.
And then how many slots do you have to use up for all these poor, random heals? bearing in mind that you need 4 to attack and 2 for mobility (without mentioning any buffs/cc/utility)?

I mean, yes, on a sorc you *could* ignore shields - but it really is such a terrible build that it really isn't worth doing.. its kind of like running a stam build without vigour - or magplar without bol.

Apache_Kid

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Lord_Invel

Anyone that claims they have a Mag Sorc that doesn't use not one shield at all and is viable in pvp please come duel me so I can show you how "viable" your trash setups are going to become. Whisper me @Lord_Invel or just mail me so I can arrange a few duels to test this "viability". Because, as I have read it in this thread, everyone claiming that they have seen mag sorcs 1vx without shields and are great at it, those people are honestly full of crap XD. It just shows the lack of knowledge they have about the sorc class period and it shows how far someone will delve deep into their lies just to see a single class get nerfed to the ground.

Derra

Imo shieldbreaker does not need to be removed. It just needs a 1s cooldown to prevent lightattack spamming with ranged weapons.

Lord_Invel

Derra wrote: »

Imo shieldbreaker does not need to be removed. It just needs a 1s cooldown to prevent lightattack spamming with ranged weapons.

1 second is way to short lol I say 5 to 8 second cooldown like oblivion enchants do and most proc sets have 5 to 8 second cooldowns anyway, that is just fair.

Qbiken

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Imo shieldbreaker does not need to be removed. It just needs a 1s cooldown to prevent lightattack spamming with ranged weapons.

1 second is way to short lol I say 5 to 8 second cooldown like oblivion enchants do and most proc sets have 5 to 8 second cooldowns anyway, that is just fair.

Shieldbreaker isn´t a proc-set so not sure why you compare it with proc-sets.

Derra´s suggestion is more realistic (If looking from ZOS point of view). I would also like to change shieldbreaker so it can only proc on melee damage (that would prevent you from standing safe in a zerg spamming bow light attacks). A melee character standing in a magsorcs face only doing lightattack spam will die in seconds against any decent sorc.

Biro123

I think just making it melee damage makes most sense.

Although I haven't really mentioned it in this thread , the single biggest problem I have with it is that its almost always tied to a bow user. And that gives them the following benefits:

1. long, long range
2. light attacks are VERY difficult to see
3. because of 1 and 2, it can be VERY difficult to identify the SB user in a many v many (or even a 1v2)
4. because of 3, you often don't know who to counter-attack/which way to run until too late.
5. the fast fire-rate of bow makes the time-limit of 4 very, VERY short.
6. no risk for the sb user.

I honestly think that it would bu much, much easier to deal with that insane damage output if it were possible to:
1. Easily identify the source (cos he's in your face)
2. CC and kite (1 needs to be possible first)
3. or quickly pressure the attacker to force him on the defensive ((again, 1 needs to be possible)

because lets face it, when a bow sb user adds on a fight, you have less than 3 seconds to identify where he is and take some action to stop that spam (or handle it - ie resto ult, if up - which only buys time). Because in that 3 seconds, with the bow's 0.6 seconds cd, he's already hit you 5 times already for a total of 12k unmitigated dmg. AND one of those 3 seconds has to be tied up with you taking said action (ie cast time for a cc or resto ult).
SO that kind of means you only get 2 seconds to recognise you're getting hit by sb, AND find that hard-to-see, ranged attacker. Its really not enough when he's ranged.

Another alternative would be to apply some kind of huge jesus-beam kind of effect to it so you can pinpoint the attacker much more easily.

Feanor

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

Sharee

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

They don't "just want easy kills". They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

Qbiken

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

So accusing the users of this set that "they just want easy kills" is nonsense. They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

inb4 arguments that you can backbar shieldbreaker....

Sharee

Qbiken wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

So accusing the users of this set that "they just want easy kills" is nonsense. They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

inb4 arguments that you can backbar shieldbreaker....

Back bar is just as important for your overall fighting power as your main bar is. Dedicate backbar to something that only works against shield users, and your average fighting power will go down.

Biro123

Sharee wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

So accusing the users of this set that "they just want easy kills" is nonsense. They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

inb4 arguments that you can backbar shieldbreaker....

Back bar is just as important for your overall fighting power as your main bar is. Dedicate backbar to something that only works against shield users, and your average fighting power will go down.

Could use that same argument for sharpened.. or spinners/spriggarns 5-piece, and there are plenty of people who don't run it because of the amount of shields that are around (and just as many who do because its still useful against a good number of opponents)
There are a LOT more shield users than just sorcs - and there are plenty of those helpful aoe shields too.

But the point is, you may get a 10% drop in ability with shieldbreaker against a non-shield user, but its a 200% increase against a shield user.. those figures are definitely skewed (and totally made-up, btw - but it illustrates a point.)

I mean if you compare spinners to sb.. spriggarns gives maybe a 6% dmg increase on non-shields? I can't remember the exact figure or formula. That is nowhere near on-par with the insane damage that sb pumps out vs shields.

Urza1234

You cannot crit on shields, you cannot pen shields. The only thing you can normally do to shields is stun the sorc and bull through them with pure tooltip damage, ie effective SP/WP.
Thus, offensively, builds that rely on crit or pen are much less useful against shield stackers, since their crit or pen is nullified till the shield comes down. This earns you the animosity of everyone who would like to build crit or pen, but cant or feel they cant because sorcs exist.

Sorcs defensively counter everyone besides people who stack pure effective SP/WP, to me its only appropriate that they themselves have a counter.

Sharee

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

So accusing the users of this set that "they just want easy kills" is nonsense. They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

inb4 arguments that you can backbar shieldbreaker....

Back bar is just as important for your overall fighting power as your main bar is. Dedicate backbar to something that only works against shield users, and your average fighting power will go down.

Could use that same argument for sharpened.. or spinners/spriggarns 5-piece, and there are plenty of people who don't run it because of the amount of shields that are around (and just as many who do because its still useful against a good number of opponents)
There are a LOT more shield users than just sorcs - and there are plenty of those helpful aoe shields too.

But the point is, you may get a 10% drop in ability with shieldbreaker against a non-shield user, but its a 200% increase against a shield user.. those figures are definitely skewed (and totally made-up, btw - but it illustrates a point.)

I mean if you compare spinners to sb.. spriggarns gives maybe a 6% dmg increase on non-shields? I can't remember the exact figure or formula. That is nowhere near on-par with the insane damage that sb pumps out vs shields.

The damage is not insane, and yes your numbers are totally made-up.

Biro123

Sharee wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

So accusing the users of this set that "they just want easy kills" is nonsense. They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

inb4 arguments that you can backbar shieldbreaker....

Back bar is just as important for your overall fighting power as your main bar is. Dedicate backbar to something that only works against shield users, and your average fighting power will go down.

Could use that same argument for sharpened.. or spinners/spriggarns 5-piece, and there are plenty of people who don't run it because of the amount of shields that are around (and just as many who do because its still useful against a good number of opponents)
There are a LOT more shield users than just sorcs - and there are plenty of those helpful aoe shields too.

But the point is, you may get a 10% drop in ability with shieldbreaker against a non-shield user, but its a 200% increase against a shield user.. those figures are definitely skewed (and totally made-up, btw - but it illustrates a point.)

I mean if you compare spinners to sb.. spriggarns gives maybe a 6% dmg increase on non-shields? I can't remember the exact figure or formula. That is nowhere near on-par with the insane damage that sb pumps out vs shields.

The damage is not insane, and yes your numbers are totally made-up.

Lol. How is 2250 damage every 0.6 seconds NOT insane?

Viper (one of our highest damage 5-piece guaranteed proc proc-sets) is what, 2000 a second for 4 seconds now?

Lets compare damage over that 4 seconds.:

Viper = 8k
SB = 4/0.6 x 2250 = 15,000

But don't forget, Viper IS affected by battle-spirit, SB isn't... but viper is also boosted by cp - so lets give it a nice 20% boost from that: sooo Viper = 4.8k, melee only, sb = 15K any range

And I'm not even adding that viper is further reduced by resists/major and minor protection - SB is not.

How is that NOT insane?

Urza1234

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

So accusing the users of this set that "they just want easy kills" is nonsense. They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

inb4 arguments that you can backbar shieldbreaker....

Back bar is just as important for your overall fighting power as your main bar is. Dedicate backbar to something that only works against shield users, and your average fighting power will go down.

Could use that same argument for sharpened.. or spinners/spriggarns 5-piece, and there are plenty of people who don't run it because of the amount of shields that are around (and just as many who do because its still useful against a good number of opponents)
There are a LOT more shield users than just sorcs - and there are plenty of those helpful aoe shields too.

But the point is, you may get a 10% drop in ability with shieldbreaker against a non-shield user, but its a 200% increase against a shield user.. those figures are definitely skewed (and totally made-up, btw - but it illustrates a point.)

I mean if you compare spinners to sb.. spriggarns gives maybe a 6% dmg increase on non-shields? I can't remember the exact figure or formula. That is nowhere near on-par with the insane damage that sb pumps out vs shields.

The damage is not insane, and yes your numbers are totally made-up.

Lol. How is 2250 damage every 0.6 seconds NOT insane?

blah

How is that NOT insane?

Just delete your sorc.

Biro123

Urza1234 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

So accusing the users of this set that "they just want easy kills" is nonsense. They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

inb4 arguments that you can backbar shieldbreaker....

Back bar is just as important for your overall fighting power as your main bar is. Dedicate backbar to something that only works against shield users, and your average fighting power will go down.

Could use that same argument for sharpened.. or spinners/spriggarns 5-piece, and there are plenty of people who don't run it because of the amount of shields that are around (and just as many who do because its still useful against a good number of opponents)
There are a LOT more shield users than just sorcs - and there are plenty of those helpful aoe shields too.

But the point is, you may get a 10% drop in ability with shieldbreaker against a non-shield user, but its a 200% increase against a shield user.. those figures are definitely skewed (and totally made-up, btw - but it illustrates a point.)

I mean if you compare spinners to sb.. spriggarns gives maybe a 6% dmg increase on non-shields? I can't remember the exact figure or formula. That is nowhere near on-par with the insane damage that sb pumps out vs shields.

The damage is not insane, and yes your numbers are totally made-up.

Lol. How is 2250 damage every 0.6 seconds NOT insane?

blah

How is that NOT insane?

Just delete your sorc.

Magblade's nearly ready :-)

Urza1234

Honestly why dont they just give sorc a decent defensive option besides shield stacking? Literally everyone in PVP would be happier.

Maryal

People who use SB not only give up their 5th piece set damage against non-shield users, but it also means the SB user has that much LESS defense (via defensive damage) to opponents that do not wear damage shields.

SB is most effective against shield users who do not use LOS as part of their offense/defense strategy. It works best against inexperienced shield users who stand out in the open (almost as if they were invincible). It also works well against shield users standing relatively still atop the keep's wall spamming (whatever) down at opponents sieging the keep from below; it also works well against shield users standing fairly still on top the bridge while spamming (whatever) down at their opponents below (when farming AP at the bridge).

It does NOT work well against shield users who take tactical advantage of LOS, or move around a lot. It does not work well against shield users who choose to go offensive rather than maintain a defensive posture upon being attacked.

NBs aren't the only ones using SB you know. It's actually a great set for wardens to use ... throw out a few pew pews then cast that healing AOE that causes defile on enemies within (the AOE isn't cast to heal anyone, it's cast on a group of enemies for the defile debuff ya know!). Again, it works best against people (whether individual or in a group) that must believe themselves to be near invincible since they tend to stand out in the open for way too long, deciding to take cover or LOS only when they are almost dead (or they die in the process).

Sorcs and healers are two other groups that can make good use of SB ....

The shields SB can be used against are not limited to sorc shields ... there are a number of shields in this game .... probably more than you realize . My guess is the reason sorcs are the loudest about SB is because they generally don't spec much into health. So, maybe that is one of the counters to SB ... more health.


Oh, and I'm not interested in hearing about that add-on garbage about switching gear sets or whatever. As far as I'm concerned, ZOS should outright prohibit ALL add-ons in pvp areas period ... and the sooner the better.

Sharee

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

So accusing the users of this set that "they just want easy kills" is nonsense. They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

inb4 arguments that you can backbar shieldbreaker....

Back bar is just as important for your overall fighting power as your main bar is. Dedicate backbar to something that only works against shield users, and your average fighting power will go down.

Could use that same argument for sharpened.. or spinners/spriggarns 5-piece, and there are plenty of people who don't run it because of the amount of shields that are around (and just as many who do because its still useful against a good number of opponents)
There are a LOT more shield users than just sorcs - and there are plenty of those helpful aoe shields too.

But the point is, you may get a 10% drop in ability with shieldbreaker against a non-shield user, but its a 200% increase against a shield user.. those figures are definitely skewed (and totally made-up, btw - but it illustrates a point.)

I mean if you compare spinners to sb.. spriggarns gives maybe a 6% dmg increase on non-shields? I can't remember the exact figure or formula. That is nowhere near on-par with the insane damage that sb pumps out vs shields.

The damage is not insane, and yes your numbers are totally made-up.

Lol. How is 2250 damage every 0.6 seconds NOT insane?

Viper (one of our highest damage 5-piece guaranteed proc proc-sets) is what, 2000 a second for 4 seconds now?

Lets compare damage over that 4 seconds.:

Viper = 8k
SB = 4/0.6 x 2250 = 15,000

But don't forget, Viper IS affected by battle-spirit, SB isn't... but viper is also boosted by cp - so lets give it a nice 20% boost from that: sooo Viper = 4.8k, melee only, sb = 15K any range

And I'm not even adding that viper is further reduced by resists/major and minor protection - SB is not.

How is that NOT insane?

Viper works against every target, shieldbreaker does not. So any comparison MUST come up with shieldbreaker against shields doing more damage than viper in general for there to be any balance between the two. Otherwise everyone would just use viper.

And sorry, ~3700 DPS is far from insane in an environment where you can get bursted from 100 to 0 faster than you break free.

Biro123

Sharee wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

So accusing the users of this set that "they just want easy kills" is nonsense. They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

inb4 arguments that you can backbar shieldbreaker....

Back bar is just as important for your overall fighting power as your main bar is. Dedicate backbar to something that only works against shield users, and your average fighting power will go down.

Could use that same argument for sharpened.. or spinners/spriggarns 5-piece, and there are plenty of people who don't run it because of the amount of shields that are around (and just as many who do because its still useful against a good number of opponents)
There are a LOT more shield users than just sorcs - and there are plenty of those helpful aoe shields too.

But the point is, you may get a 10% drop in ability with shieldbreaker against a non-shield user, but its a 200% increase against a shield user.. those figures are definitely skewed (and totally made-up, btw - but it illustrates a point.)

I mean if you compare spinners to sb.. spriggarns gives maybe a 6% dmg increase on non-shields? I can't remember the exact figure or formula. That is nowhere near on-par with the insane damage that sb pumps out vs shields.

The damage is not insane, and yes your numbers are totally made-up.

Lol. How is 2250 damage every 0.6 seconds NOT insane?

Viper (one of our highest damage 5-piece guaranteed proc proc-sets) is what, 2000 a second for 4 seconds now?

Lets compare damage over that 4 seconds.:

Viper = 8k
SB = 4/0.6 x 2250 = 15,000

But don't forget, Viper IS affected by battle-spirit, SB isn't... but viper is also boosted by cp - so lets give it a nice 20% boost from that: sooo Viper = 4.8k, melee only, sb = 15K any range

And I'm not even adding that viper is further reduced by resists/major and minor protection - SB is not.

How is that NOT insane?

Viper works against every target, shieldbreaker does not. So any comparison MUST come up with shieldbreaker against shields doing more damage than viper in general for there to be any balance between the two. Otherwise everyone would just use viper.

And sorry, ~3700 DPS is far from insane in an environment where you can get bursted from 100 to 0 faster than you break free.

I'm not saying it should do less than viper - i'm just illustrating how strong it is compared to viper... I just don't get how everybody complained about viper, and procs in general... yet this is massively worse than all other procs put together for one single class and everyone else is like.. 'its fine, what u complaining bout?'

Well we'll just have to disagree on that then.. imho when it's pressure damage that ignores all the usual defences that stop you getting bursted from 100 to 0, and all comes from just a single 5-piece bonus, as opposed to a whole build + class skills + timing which goes into bursting someone down from 100 to 0...
One single 5-piece that requires your target to use a whole new build that makes you SIGNIFICANTLY weaker vs everyone else to be able to handle it.
One single 5-piece that only needs one potato running in cyro spamming ranged light attacks to make all sorcs give up and go fight the other faction instead..

I just don't really know what else to say.

Sharee

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

So accusing the users of this set that "they just want easy kills" is nonsense. They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

inb4 arguments that you can backbar shieldbreaker....

Back bar is just as important for your overall fighting power as your main bar is. Dedicate backbar to something that only works against shield users, and your average fighting power will go down.

Could use that same argument for sharpened.. or spinners/spriggarns 5-piece, and there are plenty of people who don't run it because of the amount of shields that are around (and just as many who do because its still useful against a good number of opponents)
There are a LOT more shield users than just sorcs - and there are plenty of those helpful aoe shields too.

But the point is, you may get a 10% drop in ability with shieldbreaker against a non-shield user, but its a 200% increase against a shield user.. those figures are definitely skewed (and totally made-up, btw - but it illustrates a point.)

I mean if you compare spinners to sb.. spriggarns gives maybe a 6% dmg increase on non-shields? I can't remember the exact figure or formula. That is nowhere near on-par with the insane damage that sb pumps out vs shields.

The damage is not insane, and yes your numbers are totally made-up.

Lol. How is 2250 damage every 0.6 seconds NOT insane?

Viper (one of our highest damage 5-piece guaranteed proc proc-sets) is what, 2000 a second for 4 seconds now?

Lets compare damage over that 4 seconds.:

Viper = 8k
SB = 4/0.6 x 2250 = 15,000

But don't forget, Viper IS affected by battle-spirit, SB isn't... but viper is also boosted by cp - so lets give it a nice 20% boost from that: sooo Viper = 4.8k, melee only, sb = 15K any range

And I'm not even adding that viper is further reduced by resists/major and minor protection - SB is not.

How is that NOT insane?

Viper works against every target, shieldbreaker does not. So any comparison MUST come up with shieldbreaker against shields doing more damage than viper in general for there to be any balance between the two. Otherwise everyone would just use viper.

And sorry, ~3700 DPS is far from insane in an environment where you can get bursted from 100 to 0 faster than you break free.

Well we'll just have to disagree on that then.. imho when it's pressure damage that ignores all the usual defences that stop you getting bursted from 100 to 0, and all comes from just a single 5-piece bonus, as opposed to a whole build + class skills + timing which goes into bursting someone down from 100 to 0... I just don't really know what else to say.

Keep in mind that shieldbreaker does not ignore all usual defenses, it only ignores shields. That means your performance heavily depends on what targets you encounter. Using your numbers above (shieldbreaker doing 3x the damage of viper), for a shieldbreaker to even be on par with viper, one out of every three opponents you fight would have to be a shield user.

Dunno about you, but i see far less enemies using shield than one out of every three. Stamblade, stamblade, permablocker, unkillable templar (unti it becomes 6v1), then a sorc that bolts-bolts-bolts away as soon as his burst doesn't oneshot me...

actually *fighting* a shieldstacker long enough for SB to make a difference is very, very rare.

Derra

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

MrCommunity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Because there shouldn’t be hard counters to any class in the game in the first place? Would you like a mechanic that entirely ignored all Healing or all blocking or all dodging? Because that’s what Shieldbreaker is - disabling a class defining defense.

But if you’re so desperate you need a 5 pc crutch to beat a Sorc Balance discussions probably aren’t the place you should be.

so remove invisibility detection pots while were at it, SMH. speaking from a nightblade perspective, everyone of those mechanics you mentioned I have a way to get through. except shields, there are no counters for the Sorcs who can keep shields up at all times.

Well, as @Apache_Kid so eloquently put it: Just don’t use cloak, it’s as easy as that. See?

Why do you want to be invincible? If there are counters to cloak then then there should be counters to shields. Or maybe we should all just run around without being able to kill anyone?

Sorcs aren’t invincible. Shieldbreaker users on the other hand just want an easy kill. That’s what a hard counter is. An easy way to success.

The kills are easier against shield users if you use shieldbreaker, but then they also are harder against those not using a shield, because your 5-piece bonus does nothing while theirs still works against you.

They don't "just want easy kills". They just decided they want to specialize, making killing one type of enemy easier at the expense of killing other types being harder.

There´s two categories of shieldbreaker users i know of:
1. Has two different sets of gear (is typically a nb) and will switch to his shieldbreaker setup in sneak when they´ll encounter a sorc. Absolutely no drawback.
2. Spams it from a zerg and it´s completely irrelevant that they´re at a disadvantage because they´re probably outnumbering you 5:1 atleast.

So yeah - i think they description of looking for an easy win is perfectly valid to describe the situation. There is no real drawback bc people are not stuck to one set of gear - especially on sneak builds.