Powerful Assault is the BiS for heal in 4-6 mans content.

rosy_ariete

Kneighbors wrote: »

With above average team you won't need to actively heal as much in 4 mans content. HoT and shield will be enough most of the time. It's really rare i'm casting BoL in 4 mans content or healing springs. Read what @Masel92 writes, he's explaining that to reach the top of the leader-boards it's best not to have heal as a role at all. You and him are on two different ends. You are heal who is only concerned about healing while he is concerned about reaching best score.

I'm talking about average-high level, where you want to buff your group as much as possible and don't need to concentrate on healing that much, but still require a heal role in your group.

if you think that this is the best for your group, well ok... but here you’re not a healer (in fact neither a dd) and I really hope that new players won’t take this build as viable.

I play high level content too for leaderboards and I don’t run a templar healer either in vdsa. No need to read others ppl comments on this as I perfectly know how to reach high scores.

That said and as many have already stated, with your setup you lose so much passives that is barely understable why you wanna “boost” your group by loosing things that are really BiS.
On the other hand, if your group is decent, every vet dungeon is doable with 3 dds and a tank. No need at all an healer so you can wear what you want if they’re happy.

Cheers!

Tasear

eso_nya wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Claiming PA as BiS for healers in 4 man.....

You never know I once saw stamina warden healer, so maybe power assault and hircune is BIS for them?


P.S My poor name keeps getting tagged in the quotes, so suffer with me Tag your it

For lols and giggles, run dragon, warmachine w/ shimmershield, lightningstaff / resto, stam shalks and forrest on stam warden xD
Dont expect anyone to take u serious tho^^

Silly, lighting wouldn't work...you need frost!

Kneighbors

rosy_ariete wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

With above average team you won't need to actively heal as much in 4 mans content. HoT and shield will be enough most of the time. It's really rare i'm casting BoL in 4 mans content or healing springs. Read what @Masel92 writes, he's explaining that to reach the top of the leader-boards it's best not to have heal as a role at all. You and him are on two different ends. You are heal who is only concerned about healing while he is concerned about reaching best score.

I'm talking about average-high level, where you want to buff your group as much as possible and don't need to concentrate on healing that much, but still require a heal role in your group.

if you think that this is the best for your group, well ok... but here you’re not a healer (in fact neither a dd) and I really hope that new players won’t take this build as viable.

I play high level content too for leaderboards and I don’t run a templar healer either in vdsa. No need to read others ppl comments on this as I perfectly know how to reach high scores.

That said and as many have already stated, with your setup you lose so much passives that is barely understable why you wanna “boost” your group by loosing things that are really BiS.
On the other hand, if your group is decent, every vet dungeon is doable with 3 dds and a tank. No need at all an healer so you can wear what you want if they’re happy.

Cheers!

Can't see. Which passives do you lose exactly? You are still running 5 light pcs. Can put another 5 pcs of any heavy or medium armor of your choice by 2 cloth + 3 jewelry without losing any passives.

Taleof2Cities

Have you tried it in a vet Trial raid, @Kneighbors?

Personally, I'd like to see more stam healer (or even hybrid) players in end game content if that is even possible ...

code65536

Kneighbors wrote: »

The problem with heals going dps is poor buffing and healing focus. From my experience heals who try to DPS are always weak on buffs, debuffs and resource sharing .

In case you missed the point that everyone is trying to tell you, in 4-man content, healer going DD is going to increase group DPS much more than healer throwing out a few extra buffs.

If you need a healer, then your build is pretty bad for healer. If you don't need a healer, then your group would benefit more from you going DD.

This is a niche build. It can work, because for 4-man content, pretty much anything can work. But is not competitive. And certainly not BiS. Which is the problem here: if you titled your thread, "fun build to try", people wouldn't be jumping down your throat. But the claim that it's "BiS" needs to meet a much higher bar.

Kneighbors

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Have you tried it in a vet Trial raid, @Kneighbors?

Personally, I'd like to see more stam healer (or even hybrid) players in end game content if that is even possible ...

In vHRC it's working good on split fight. Although it's not a hard fight but SPC+PA definitely better than any other option for 6 man there.

I don't think it's good for vTrials simply because heal needs stamina for cc and roll dodge + casting Power Of The Light is a good thing.

Kneighbors

code65536 wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

The problem with heals going dps is poor buffing and healing focus. From my experience heals who try to DPS are always weak on buffs, debuffs and resource sharing .

In case you missed the point that everyone is trying to tell you, in 4-man content, healer going DD is going to increase group DPS much more than healer throwing out a few extra buffs.

If you need a healer, then your build is pretty bad for healer. If you don't need a healer, then your group would benefit more from you going DD.

This is a niche build. It can work, because for 4-man content, pretty much anything can work. But is not competitive. And certainly not BiS. Which is the problem here: if you titled your thread, "fun build to try", people wouldn't be jumping down your throat. But the claim that it's "BiS" needs to meet a much higher bar.

Ok, so you are going same way several people here already went. Your point is BiS for healer in 4 mans content is not to be a healer but to be a dd.

It's a cool story specially when you forget that not every group running maxed out. I understand it was long ago last time you clicked "Queue" button in random Group Finder. Well when you go there many (if not most) of the time you will meet player for whom additional 220 spell damage will be a good 10-20% addition to their stats. And if you won't heal them they will wipe.

And again, for a top team a heal can boost dps of 2 dd's by over 25% and make easily 10k dps by himself. Now go on and make simple math, 2 good dd's 40k dps avg will get a boost of 10k dps from heal. 10k+10k+10k=30k groups dps will be coming from heals buffs and attacks. Remove heal and their dps will get lower because they have to spam vigor\shield from time to time. All in all it will be a questionable trade even for a high lvl team. Players for whom tank+3dd's will be significantly winning dps are maybe 1% of all playerbase. Many others trying this composition without even realizing they are loosing groups dps and not gaining.

Juhasow

Tbh healer wearing Torug's pact with crusher or shock dmg enchant gives more DPS boost for group then Powerfull Assault in 4m content. Higher off ballance and minor vulnerability uptime or additional almost 3k pen is better then 164 wep/spell dmg even after getting multipled by percentage bonuses. In fights relying on huge burst and melting everything don as fast as possible Master Architect wins. Casting Vigor can cause inability to use for example Power of the Light which is much better stamina skill to use for a healer because 1320 pen with 100% uptime > 164 wep/spell dmg with 60-70% uptime. Also healer actually doing some portion of DPS is better for 4m content then healer totally specced into support with set that lowers his dmg potential. I think OP just falled under false impression because he didnt made enough tests and now is trying to sell that impression to everyone. It's not like @Kneighbors You're the 1st person on Earth thinking about healing with Powerfull Assault. It's not bad set but there are better options to replace it on healer and this is why most of the time if anyone then tank is wearing it.

NotNormanBates

164 spell/wep dmg as 10k boost to each individual? As people both competitive and non-competitive have detailed, your build just doesn't add up. If you are trying to make sure your daily random goes well and people don't die, the damage mitigation from mending will be of more use and will "boost" damage by an infinite amount (you complete it rather than wipe). Hows that for math? In all seriousness though, ill reiterate. Rather than switching your argument back and forth from "this is bis because it gives you the most spell/wep damage" and "I understand it was long ago last time you clicked "Queue" button in random Group Finder."(Which implies that your build is BiS AND is best for mid to low level groups), you would be much better off picking a side and sticking with it. BiS is almost always used for the best of the best end game builds.

paulsimonps

I love how people with really high scores in vDSA are saying you don't need a healer and you try to disprove them with really weird math that has no real math in it, just made up numbers and huge generalizations and assumptions. Unless you have very accurate and specific numbers to show no one is going to take you seriously, you have proved nothing. So the only other way to prove it is to go in there with your "healer" build and beat their score, prove them wrong.

You are the one to claim it as BiS, you have the burden of proof, now show us the proof. Give us a good comparison to work with.

LadyNalcarya

Kneighbors wrote: »

Here's an example of uptimes, this is normal combat without pushing the limits for uptime, as you can see PA is only 92% there (not hard to make it 100% tho) and SPC is 85%.

Now pure math, on regular healer who followed the regular guides and copy/paste his build you will see SPC+Worm and he will keep around 60% SPC uptime if he is good, his damage buff to a group will be:

258*60% = 154.8

On screenshot parse it's:

258*85% = 219.3
+
164*92%= 150.9
= 370.2

370.2 vs 154.8, a whooping 220 spell\weapon power for every player out there.

@Masel92 Don't forget that Master Architect will give it's bonus to 2 dd's only 50% of the time. You have to correct the bonus for that, so it's actually 15% + 7.5%. In any case, it's really rare to meet heals with SPC+Master Architect. To me this build falls between chairs simply because it's hard to be played correctly. Like every time you will have to decide, drop ult now or wait for that next group. Take in mind I'm talking here only about optimizing 4 mans content, that means:
-How do we pass dungeon faster and effectively?
-How do we get best score in vDSA?
There's the PA+SPC meta.


@Tasear @Zer0oo 6 man's content is vHRC when your group is divided into two. In this instance I think SPC+PA outperform any other combination and will grant you a better score at the bottom line.

Well, I havent read the whole thread, but...

>41% group heals
>Less than 42% combat prayer?
>No ele wall? (=no off-balance and minor vulnerability)

Hmm. That might be a fun build to play, but its certainly not BiS.

Girl_Number8

Tasear wrote: »

Unless you are one of those very very very rare stamina healers then no and no.

(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health

(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina

(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage

(5 items) When you cast an Assault ability, you increase the Weapon and Spell Damage of up to 4 friendly targets within 10 meters by 164 for 15 seconds.

A dps or tank should be using this as it's medium and a inclined for stamina players.

P.S I must be a noob , but do we have a six man content ?

Yes, the 6 man grp content is a brofest standing by the steps in any high traffic areas, talking away in area chat that makes your brain cells die.

Liofa

I am still waiting for an explanation from OP about what 6 man content is .

Kneighbors

Juhasow wrote: »

Tbh healer wearing Torug's pact with crusher or shock dmg enchant gives more DPS boost for group then Powerfull Assault in 4m content. Higher off ballance and minor vulnerability uptime or additional almost 3k pen is better then 164 wep/spell dmg even after getting multipled by percentage bonuses. In fights relying on huge burst and melting everything don as fast as possible Master Architect wins. Casting Vigor can cause inability to use for example Power of the Light which is much better stamina skill to use for a healer because 1320 pen with 100% uptime > 164 wep/spell dmg with 60-70% uptime. Also healer actually doing some portion of DPS is better for 4m content then healer totally specced into support with set that lowers his dmg potential. I think OP just falled under false impression because he didnt made enough tests and now is trying to sell that impression to everyone. It's not like @Kneighbors You're the 1st person on Earth thinking about healing with Powerfull Assault. It's not bad set but there are better options to replace it on healer and this is why most of the time if anyone then tank is wearing it.

Sorry to say but you are just trying to show you understand something about combat calculations when you definitely don't.
- Crusher don't stack. This is solely the reason why Torug's pact is another waste of set on healer. Off balance/vulnerability depends on group. If you have one more magicka player in your team Torug is a total waste again. I'm playing with random teams, wouldn't chose a set which works ok with some and does nothing with others.
- 70% PA uptime? Where did you take this number from? You can reach over 95% no problem, if you were reading before it also improves SPC uptimes. The actual increase will be over 200 wep/spell damage.
- Power of the light together with SPC+PA will bring the biggest damage buff. It's no problem to make this in 4 mans content. Just use the stamina pots. No need to cancel PotL.

paulsimonps wrote: »

I love how people with really high scores in vDSA are saying you don't need a healer and you try to disprove them with really weird math that has no real math in it, just made up numbers and huge generalizations and assumptions. Unless you have very accurate and specific numbers to show no one is going to take you seriously, you have proved nothing. So the only other way to prove it is to go in there with your "healer" build and beat their score, prove them wrong.

You are the one to claim it as BiS, you have the burden of proof, now show us the proof. Give us a good comparison to work with.

These people are simply saying that Heal isn't an essential role. Plain and simple. They are coming here to say that Heal is only a role for 12 man content. Saw once a PUG trial group where they took additional DD instead of heal. How many of them realize that one heal will buff groups dps much better than one cp300 dd? Same happens here. They give away misinformation that vDSA is a place where heal is not needed. Then you see poor noobies going there tank+3dd and can't get past several arenas.

Even for players who reach decent scores with tank+3dd it's possible that they would do better with a good buffing + slightly dpsing heal instead. I PUG vDSA once a month for 38k score no problem with regular tank+2dd+heal.

Open vDSA leaderboards and see that almost in every team there is a templar. So he wasn't "heal", he was dropping shards and circle and making his 20k dps instead of buffing group. WOW. We have to remove Heal role from 4 man content now.

Kneighbors

Liofa wrote: »

I am still waiting for an explanation from OP about what 6 man content is .

Already answered. vHRC team split.

paulsimonps

Kneighbors wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Tbh healer wearing Torug's pact with crusher or shock dmg enchant gives more DPS boost for group then Powerfull Assault in 4m content. Higher off ballance and minor vulnerability uptime or additional almost 3k pen is better then 164 wep/spell dmg even after getting multipled by percentage bonuses. In fights relying on huge burst and melting everything don as fast as possible Master Architect wins. Casting Vigor can cause inability to use for example Power of the Light which is much better stamina skill to use for a healer because 1320 pen with 100% uptime > 164 wep/spell dmg with 60-70% uptime. Also healer actually doing some portion of DPS is better for 4m content then healer totally specced into support with set that lowers his dmg potential. I think OP just falled under false impression because he didnt made enough tests and now is trying to sell that impression to everyone. It's not like @Kneighbors You're the 1st person on Earth thinking about healing with Powerfull Assault. It's not bad set but there are better options to replace it on healer and this is why most of the time if anyone then tank is wearing it.

Sorry to say but you are just trying to show you understand something about combat calculations when you definitely don't.
- Crusher don't stack. This is solely the reason why Torug's pact is another waste of set on healer. Off balance/vulnerability depends on group. If you have one more magicka player in your team Torug is a total waste again. I'm playing with random teams, wouldn't chose a set which works ok with some and does nothing with others.
- 70% PA uptime? Where did you take this number from? You can reach over 95% no problem, if you were reading before it also improves SPC uptimes. The actual increase will be over 200 wep/spell damage.
- Power of the light together with SPC+PA will bring the biggest damage buff. It's no problem to make this in 4 mans content. Just use the stamina pots. No need to cancel PotL.

paulsimonps wrote: »

I love how people with really high scores in vDSA are saying you don't need a healer and you try to disprove them with really weird math that has no real math in it, just made up numbers and huge generalizations and assumptions. Unless you have very accurate and specific numbers to show no one is going to take you seriously, you have proved nothing. So the only other way to prove it is to go in there with your "healer" build and beat their score, prove them wrong.

You are the one to claim it as BiS, you have the burden of proof, now show us the proof. Give us a good comparison to work with.

These people are simply saying that Heal isn't an essential role. Plain and simple. They are coming here to say that Heal is only a role for 12 man content. Saw once a PUG trial group where they took additional DD instead of heal. How many of them realize that one heal will buff groups dps much better than one cp300 dd? Same happens here. They give away misinformation that vDSA is a place where heal is not needed. Then you see poor noobies going there tank+3dd and can't get past several arenas.

Even for players who reach decent scores with tank+3dd it's possible that they would do better with a good buffing + slightly dpsing heal instead. I PUG vDSA once a month for 38k score no problem with regular tank+2dd+heal.

Open vDSA leaderboards and see that almost in every team there is a templar. So he wasn't "heal", he was dropping shards and circle and making his 20k dps instead of buffing group. WOW. We have to remove Heal role from 4 man content now.

I think you are missing the point. You are claiming BiS, aka what performs and does the absolute best, what does the best time, and best score. And for vDSA that is to run without someone that is a full healer set up. They are set as DPS but can give out occasional heals. No healing set in sight on those builds, just damage and stat buff sets.

Now is this the best option to run for a average vDSA or dungeon group? No, but we didn't claim that it was, we said for speed runs and high score runs, which requires that you do things very efficiently and is well versed in combat without a healer and knows spawns and locations very well. For the average team they do need more support, but a SPC+PA set up will not help a group like that very much at all. Some healing or damage mitigation sets will do those group for more good. Like, Mending or Sanctuary.

A lot of end game guilds and raid leaders say this too, what is BiS is not always what you want to start of with, you need to learn the game first and become a more experienced player. Even Alcast has told people for example that new Trials group shouldn't always try to run Warhorn but instead go for Novas or other supportive ultimate so that they can learn the mechanics first, then they can learn to clean it up and push harder on DPS. This is the same thing, you start of by running with a healer but bit by bit you remove the healer sets and healing abilities to more DPS oriented stuff and in the end you are a DPS that throws occasional heals and resource buffs. This gives faster runs and higher score, aka BiS group set up. For now that is, meta is ever changing of course.

You have also failed to show proof that the SPC+PA is BiS for 4 man group that uses a fully specced Healer, and a fully specced Tank. You have done no comparisons to other set ups and only showed old combat metric screenshots and very flimsy math that has no solid footing.

Woeler

If you are not a tank this set is absolutely terrible. Actually if you are a tank it is even highly debatable if this set is worth it at all. Also, wtf is 6 man content?

rustic_potato

This is got to be a troll or OP has no idea how end game works. In good groups where the extra 150 spell damage from PA matters it is better to run 3 dps and a tank.

In groups who cannot handle that you don't need that exta 150 spell damage and the sustain and mitigation provided by worm and mending is significantly better.

Hey maybe you should post videos of you getting server first scores before claiming it to be BIS for healers.

Grabmoore

Kneighbors wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

You do know that set gives 164 weapon and spell damage, not 400 right

The point is players getting instant PA+SPC buff. Just go ahead and test it. Check out the uptime of SPC in trials and 4 mans content.

I personally prefer 5 SPC and 5 MasterArchitect for 4 man content. Coupled with resto ulti for 6 second major force(2/3 of horn uptime with half the cost) it has a pretty good uptime of Mas 5 piece.

You could wear whatever you like. In trials however I would use the tools that always worked.

@Masel92 @Grabmoore In vDSA PA+SPC+Agressive horn outperforming Master architect. I checked this while you are theorycrafting and overlooking the actual benefits of PA like uptime of both SPC and PA buffs.

Vigor is stronger HoT than Regeneration and its morphs.
Resto staff ult is liable to get a nerf to its cost next patch

Uhm, no?

Uptime for major force is better with resto ulti, it's 12 seconds average instead of 9.5 seconds.

Plus, you actually have good stats in MA and can contribute decent dps yourself. I don't use regeneration outside of PvP. Ritual and combat prayer are enough. Please show some more stats or real tests. Im not convinced at all.

idk

Kneighbors wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

You do know that set gives 164 weapon and spell damage, not 400 right

The point is players getting instant PA+SPC buff. Just go ahead and test it. Check out the uptime of SPC in trials and 4 mans content.

I personally prefer 5 SPC and 5 MasterArchitect for 4 man content. Coupled with resto ulti for 6 second major force(2/3 of horn uptime with half the cost) it has a pretty good uptime of Mas 5 piece.

You could wear whatever you like. In trials however I would use the tools that always worked.

@Masel92 @Grabmoore In vDSA PA+SPC+Agressive horn outperforming Master architect. I checked this while you are theorycrafting and overlooking the actual benefits of PA like uptime of both SPC and PA buffs.

Vigor is stronger HoT than Regeneration and its morphs.
Resto staff ult is liable to get a nerf to its cost next patch

The finding that vigor is a stronger heal is dubious at best.

Rapid regen heals 17K over 16 seconds (food buff only)
Vigor heals other for 6800 over 5 seconds on a tank that actually has some stamina (and yes, the tank had PA equipped getting the stats form it.

On a healer Vigor will heal for significantly less, probably not much better than 5k. Additionally, it will be put further behind since the healer is setup for spell crit, not weapon crit. IIRC Vigor works off of weapon crit.

Lastly, the Heal per cast for vigor is significantly than any morph of Regen which is the group is really needing the heals that drops it in the toilet.

The last note is MA probably is not a great set for a Templar healer since their only low cost ultimate has lame channel. However on a Warden and their instant cast cheap ult they could keep good uptime on the Major Slayer buff and it would most certainly outshine the PA buff. So, not a great set except in the right hands, so to speak.

Personally, I think having PA on the healer in vDSA is a poor way to go. Not for the reasons above that show Vigor is not that great when on a magicka character, but that it makes the healers contribution weak sauce. It would reduce the size of all the healers essential heals. Logic does not seem strong for this idea.

Oh, and the healer would need to have PA in all jewelry and staves. Really not a good idea to wear more than pieces of armor that is not light.

Seriously doubt PA is used by any competitive group by a healer.. Never heard of it being used in this way.

Mureel

Kneighbors wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

You do know that set gives 164 weapon and spell damage, not 400 right

The point is players getting instant PA+SPC buff. Just go ahead and test it. Check out the uptime of SPC in trials and 4 mans content.

I personally prefer 5 SPC and 5 MasterArchitect for 4 man content. Coupled with resto ulti for 6 second major force(2/3 of horn uptime with half the cost) it has a pretty good uptime of Mas 5 piece.

You could wear whatever you like. In trials however I would use the tools that always worked.

@Masel92 @Grabmoore In vDSA PA+SPC+Agressive horn outperforming Master architect. I checked this while you are theorycrafting and overlooking the actual benefits of PA like uptime of both SPC and PA buffs.

Vigor is stronger HoT than Regeneration and its morphs.
Resto staff ult is liable to get a nerf to its cost next patch

How would you assess it is outperfoming that? If it is BiS in 4-man content then why arent you amongst the top of the Leaderboard ranks in Dragonstar? Right, because it is not. I've done 48 minute runs in there as replacement with the group that is #1 at the moment (Clyde, Sub, Samwise and Eddie) in DSA and PA was worn by the STAMPLAR, not the healer. You sacrifice 4 useful set benuses and jewels with max magicka for 164 spell damage for 4 people that a damage dealer would be better off using. On a templar healer, you already have so many AoEs HoTs ticking and proccing SPC that Vigor is a waste of time.

I asked a few endgame trial guild people about this, e.g. Jonno of Chimaira and Loyal from Dragon's Crest and they all told me this is nonsense, because it simply is nonsense...

In 4 man content for the majority and in particular DSA, there is no reason to run a healer and you'd be better of using 3 DDs with a Tank who knows what he's doing.

You are talking about high end groups and of course there's no point to run sets like PA on 2 players in vDSA.

I'm talking about some kind of stupid mantra that the community follows, that heal must wear SPC+Worm in PvE content. Go queue for a random and 90% of a time you will see a heal wearing SPC+Worm and Mending. Why? Because he was told this is BiS.
Worm and Mending is strictly Trials sets and those blue orbs simply disgust me when I see them in a dungeon (or vDSA).

Um. BS. Worm is great for magicka chars; but spc and mending is great for everyone! Huge buff AND huge debuff for mobs is fabulous!

You know, most your posts are just plain weird. Also, none of us wear all 3 sets lol because there's not room for it. I wear spc and mending because it's awesome. I change to worm if the other healer only has mending for the magicka players.

Your own guildie just told you that you're wrong; so have several more people.

What's even the point of your post at all?

idk

Mureel wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

You do know that set gives 164 weapon and spell damage, not 400 right

The point is players getting instant PA+SPC buff. Just go ahead and test it. Check out the uptime of SPC in trials and 4 mans content.

I personally prefer 5 SPC and 5 MasterArchitect for 4 man content. Coupled with resto ulti for 6 second major force(2/3 of horn uptime with half the cost) it has a pretty good uptime of Mas 5 piece.

You could wear whatever you like. In trials however I would use the tools that always worked.

@Masel92 @Grabmoore In vDSA PA+SPC+Agressive horn outperforming Master architect. I checked this while you are theorycrafting and overlooking the actual benefits of PA like uptime of both SPC and PA buffs.

Vigor is stronger HoT than Regeneration and its morphs.
Resto staff ult is liable to get a nerf to its cost next patch

How would you assess it is outperfoming that? If it is BiS in 4-man content then why arent you amongst the top of the Leaderboard ranks in Dragonstar? Right, because it is not. I've done 48 minute runs in there as replacement with the group that is #1 at the moment (Clyde, Sub, Samwise and Eddie) in DSA and PA was worn by the STAMPLAR, not the healer. You sacrifice 4 useful set benuses and jewels with max magicka for 164 spell damage for 4 people that a damage dealer would be better off using. On a templar healer, you already have so many AoEs HoTs ticking and proccing SPC that Vigor is a waste of time.

I asked a few endgame trial guild people about this, e.g. Jonno of Chimaira and Loyal from Dragon's Crest and they all told me this is nonsense, because it simply is nonsense...

In 4 man content for the majority and in particular DSA, there is no reason to run a healer and you'd be better of using 3 DDs with a Tank who knows what he's doing.

You are talking about high end groups and of course there's no point to run sets like PA on 2 players in vDSA.

I'm talking about some kind of stupid mantra that the community follows, that heal must wear SPC+Worm in PvE content. Go queue for a random and 90% of a time you will see a heal wearing SPC+Worm and Mending. Why? Because he was told this is BiS.
Worm and Mending is strictly Trials sets and those blue orbs simply disgust me when I see them in a dungeon (or vDSA).

Um. BS. Worm is great for magicka chars; but spc and mending is great for everyone! Huge buff AND huge debuff for mobs is fabulous!

You know, most your posts are just plain weird. Also, none of us wear all 3 sets lol because there's not room for it. I wear spc and mending because it's awesome. I change to worm if the other healer only has mending for the magicka players.

Your own guildie just told you that you're wrong; so have several more people.

What's even the point of your post at all?

I did not even see his comments on those sets. Fortunately in this case I doubt anyone will change their gear as OP is suggesting with all the comments in this thread that point out how things really work.

Yngol

Kneighbors wrote: »

Yngol wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

You do know that set gives 164 weapon and spell damage, not 400 right

The point is players getting instant PA+SPC buff. Just go ahead and test it. Check out the uptime of SPC in trials and 4 mans content.

I personally prefer 5 SPC and 5 MasterArchitect for 4 man content. Coupled with resto ulti for 6 second major force(2/3 of horn uptime with half the cost) it has a pretty good uptime of Mas 5 piece.

You could wear whatever you like. In trials however I would use the tools that always worked.

@Masel92 @Grabmoore In vDSA PA+SPC+Agressive horn outperforming Master architect. I checked this while you are theorycrafting and overlooking the actual benefits of PA like uptime of both SPC and PA buffs.

Vigor is stronger HoT than Regeneration and its morphs.
Resto staff ult is liable to get a nerf to its cost next patch

Hey, as a holder of multiple 44k+ scores in vdsa, I can tell you that a) healers are obsolete in vdsa b) even if they weren't, i wouldn't want mine in spc+PA (thats what the vdsa tank wears). Cheers

Your (a) statement is equal to "healers are obsolete in 4 mans content" don't you find?

What you wanted to say perhaps is that you've spent enough time in vDSA to run it without heals. Do you think this shall justify to remove Heal role from 4 mans content?

The most funny is when people listen to opinions like yours without understanding what you mean, and then they go to vDSA and start spamming shields and vigors. When you look at their group dps it's lower than if they would run normally with heal.

My heal will give a team up to 30% damage boost together with heals it will deliver, resources and around 10% groups dps. So bringing DD instead of a well built heal isn't that uber buff, and for a random group will always result in dps loss and worse score. I make 38k easy with randoms when it's weekly. So to make 44k with constant group doesn't seems like an amusing score. 38k = 6 deaths, 2 by mistake and 4 a single wipe on last boss because we are rusty. so 44k is nothing to brag about and surely not a reasons to remove heal from your group.

You know what, I'd even think that you can do better than 44k if you are running with built up group with a good heal running PA+SPC and regular Ebon+Alkosh tank. No need to get outta your skin for that score.

No my statement means exactly what it says; healers are obsolete in dsa. And whilst 44k is certainly not the best score of all time, I challenge you to do better than that with a scp+PA healer. If you're PC NA or PC EU, I'll even give you 50k gold Also, spc+PA gives nowhere near a 30% dps boost (i don't know where you got that number from)

Jeremy

Kneighbors wrote: »

- One click of vigor every 10 seconds gives an injection of 400+ spell/weap power
- The SPC uptime is signifacntly higher (80-90% vs 60-65% on any regular heal)
- Additional HoT.

This set is underrated because several youtubers chose it to be offtank set, while there are several better sets for offtank right now.
With current amount of stamina DD's many times in 4-6 mans content theres no point in running worm. Mending damage mitigation is also questionable. For 99% of 4 mans content it won't even matter for high end team.

Maybe if you are lucky enough to be healing a group that doesn't need much healing.

I keep hearing that healers aren't really needed on this game and they are better off just gearing for support/buffs.

We must be playing different games.

Because I find that I have to strengthen my heals as much as possible. Otherwise many groups I'm grouped with drop like flies unless I literally spam heals on them until I run out of magicka. So I would not recommend any healer follow your advice unless they have a stable group they can rely on that doesn't need that much healing. Otherwise they are setting themselves up for a lot of misery.

Masel

Yngol wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Yngol wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

You do know that set gives 164 weapon and spell damage, not 400 right

The point is players getting instant PA+SPC buff. Just go ahead and test it. Check out the uptime of SPC in trials and 4 mans content.

I personally prefer 5 SPC and 5 MasterArchitect for 4 man content. Coupled with resto ulti for 6 second major force(2/3 of horn uptime with half the cost) it has a pretty good uptime of Mas 5 piece.

You could wear whatever you like. In trials however I would use the tools that always worked.

@Masel92 @Grabmoore In vDSA PA+SPC+Agressive horn outperforming Master architect. I checked this while you are theorycrafting and overlooking the actual benefits of PA like uptime of both SPC and PA buffs.

Vigor is stronger HoT than Regeneration and its morphs.
Resto staff ult is liable to get a nerf to its cost next patch

Hey, as a holder of multiple 44k+ scores in vdsa, I can tell you that a) healers are obsolete in vdsa b) even if they weren't, i wouldn't want mine in spc+PA (thats what the vdsa tank wears). Cheers

Your (a) statement is equal to "healers are obsolete in 4 mans content" don't you find?

What you wanted to say perhaps is that you've spent enough time in vDSA to run it without heals. Do you think this shall justify to remove Heal role from 4 mans content?

The most funny is when people listen to opinions like yours without understanding what you mean, and then they go to vDSA and start spamming shields and vigors. When you look at their group dps it's lower than if they would run normally with heal.

My heal will give a team up to 30% damage boost together with heals it will deliver, resources and around 10% groups dps. So bringing DD instead of a well built heal isn't that uber buff, and for a random group will always result in dps loss and worse score. I make 38k easy with randoms when it's weekly. So to make 44k with constant group doesn't seems like an amusing score. 38k = 6 deaths, 2 by mistake and 4 a single wipe on last boss because we are rusty. so 44k is nothing to brag about and surely not a reasons to remove heal from your group.

You know what, I'd even think that you can do better than 44k if you are running with built up group with a good heal running PA+SPC and regular Ebon+Alkosh tank. No need to get outta your skin for that score.

No my statement means exactly what it says; healers are obsolete in dsa. And whilst 44k is certainly not the best score of all time, I challenge you to do better than that with a scp+PA healer. If you're PC NA or PC EU, I'll even give you 50k gold Also, spc+PA gives nowhere near a 30% dps boost (i don't know where you got that number from)

30% is what I get in 12 man raids from a tank, two healers, three other stamina dds with NMG, Sunderflame (I wear that myself) and War machine, so probably the best scenario possible, here's an example:

Zhaj'hassa in vMoL, 49k single target with all raidbuffs:



And a solo parse with the exact same setup:



Calculate the difference:

49/38-1=28% dps difference between a 12-man raid and solo with all buffs and debuffs applied. Varlariel would be a better comparison as it is basically a wispmother target dummy but still, 30% dps boost is plain false.

Kneighbors

Masel92 wrote: »

Yngol wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Yngol wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

You do know that set gives 164 weapon and spell damage, not 400 right

The point is players getting instant PA+SPC buff. Just go ahead and test it. Check out the uptime of SPC in trials and 4 mans content.

I personally prefer 5 SPC and 5 MasterArchitect for 4 man content. Coupled with resto ulti for 6 second major force(2/3 of horn uptime with half the cost) it has a pretty good uptime of Mas 5 piece.

You could wear whatever you like. In trials however I would use the tools that always worked.

@Masel92 @Grabmoore In vDSA PA+SPC+Agressive horn outperforming Master architect. I checked this while you are theorycrafting and overlooking the actual benefits of PA like uptime of both SPC and PA buffs.

Vigor is stronger HoT than Regeneration and its morphs.
Resto staff ult is liable to get a nerf to its cost next patch

Hey, as a holder of multiple 44k+ scores in vdsa, I can tell you that a) healers are obsolete in vdsa b) even if they weren't, i wouldn't want mine in spc+PA (thats what the vdsa tank wears). Cheers

Your (a) statement is equal to "healers are obsolete in 4 mans content" don't you find?

What you wanted to say perhaps is that you've spent enough time in vDSA to run it without heals. Do you think this shall justify to remove Heal role from 4 mans content?

The most funny is when people listen to opinions like yours without understanding what you mean, and then they go to vDSA and start spamming shields and vigors. When you look at their group dps it's lower than if they would run normally with heal.

My heal will give a team up to 30% damage boost together with heals it will deliver, resources and around 10% groups dps. So bringing DD instead of a well built heal isn't that uber buff, and for a random group will always result in dps loss and worse score. I make 38k easy with randoms when it's weekly. So to make 44k with constant group doesn't seems like an amusing score. 38k = 6 deaths, 2 by mistake and 4 a single wipe on last boss because we are rusty. so 44k is nothing to brag about and surely not a reasons to remove heal from your group.

You know what, I'd even think that you can do better than 44k if you are running with built up group with a good heal running PA+SPC and regular Ebon+Alkosh tank. No need to get outta your skin for that score.

No my statement means exactly what it says; healers are obsolete in dsa. And whilst 44k is certainly not the best score of all time, I challenge you to do better than that with a scp+PA healer. If you're PC NA or PC EU, I'll even give you 50k gold Also, spc+PA gives nowhere near a 30% dps boost (i don't know where you got that number from)

30% is what I get in 12 man raids from a tank, two healers, three other stamina dds with NMG, Sunderflame (I wear that myself) and War machine, so probably the best scenario possible, here's an example:

Zhaj'hassa in vMoL, 49k single target with all raidbuffs:



And a solo parse with the exact same setup:



Calculate the difference:

49/38-1=28% dps difference between a 12-man raid and solo with all buffs and debuffs applied. Varlariel would be a better comparison as it is basically a wispmother target dummy but still, 30% dps boost is plain false.

Can't see your buffs there so I can't comment.
Offbalance = 10%
Combat Prayer = 8%
SPC+PA = 7+% (on my heal test vs dummy it's over 20% but mainly because of low spell power)
War Horn - few more percents
Power Of The Light = few more percents
Crusher = few more percents
DD's stop spamming shield and vigor = few more percents
Heals own DPS = several more percents

Is it OK now to say that Heal will boost groups dps by 30%?

SirDopey

Waffennacht wrote: »

I need something to do with my Nord warden, Stam healer sounds fun.

Surprisingly effective in pvp.....

bareheiny

@Waffennacht

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349045/yffres-guardian-stamina-warden-pve-healer-morrowind


So far, it's fun. But I'm not a min/maxer/good healer.

Waffennacht

bareheiny wrote: »

@Waffennacht

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349045/yffres-guardian-stamina-warden-pve-healer-morrowind


So far, it's fun. But I'm not a min/maxer/good healer.

I've read it a few times and gonna again lol

bareheiny

Waffennacht wrote: »

bareheiny wrote: »

@Waffennacht

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349045/yffres-guardian-stamina-warden-pve-healer-morrowind


So far, it's fun. But I'm not a min/maxer/good healer.

I've read it a few times and gonna again lol

It's worth re-reading just for this "Plus a healer spamming bow light attacks will drive some people in a PuG absolutely bonkers."