Fake Tank = Kick - Chat Screenshots

Grabmoore

Mithoron wrote: »

We did a normal COS the other day and some NB with a LIGHTNING staff queued in as a tank....he quickly got the boot as well....

You kicked him from Normal CoS??? I would be happy about someone providing off balance with lightning wall and thank him for not wasting a precious DD spot with a tank in normal dungeons....

You know he could've soloed it Yes?

Heck I leveled my warden tank in light armor, so that I would have it maxed when hitting 50. I then tanked the first vet dungeon (EH I) in light Level 30 armor without a healer in group! Oh yeah, of course I had lightning staff in back bar (you know like even top tanks would, see vHoF 2nd boss) .

People.....

ANGEL_BtVS

Belyar wrote: »

Most base game vet dungeons can be easily done with 3 DD as long as the healer is good. Sorry but you were the ****** here and not that guy who wanted to have fun and clear the dungeon fast. DLC dungeons are a different story.

The fake tank didn't want to "have fun and clear the dungeon fast". He wanted to skip the queue and screw over other dps waiting for their turn.

nnargun

ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »

Belyar wrote: »

Most base game vet dungeons can be easily done with 3 DD as long as the healer is good. Sorry but you were the ****** here and not that guy who wanted to have fun and clear the dungeon fast. DLC dungeons are a different story.

The fake tank didn't want to "have fun and clear the dungeon fast". He wanted to skip the queue and screw over other dps waiting for their turn.

Even though I hate fake tanks I don't think they mess with the queue for other DDs. In fact, they should reduce waiting times for other DDs as they don't occupy a DD slot themselves but instead fill a tank slot. Waiting times are only so long for DDs because they are much more abundant than tanks (and heals). This imbalance diminishes when they get a tanks slot though. The real time loss starts when the group wipes over and over due to not having a tank.

BrightOblivion

nnargun wrote: »

ANGEL_BtVS wrote: »

Belyar wrote: »

Most base game vet dungeons can be easily done with 3 DD as long as the healer is good. Sorry but you were the ****** here and not that guy who wanted to have fun and clear the dungeon fast. DLC dungeons are a different story.

The fake tank didn't want to "have fun and clear the dungeon fast". He wanted to skip the queue and screw over other dps waiting for their turn.

Even though I hate fake tanks I don't think they mess with the queue for other DDs. In fact, they should reduce waiting times for other DDs as they don't occupy a DD slot themselves but instead fill a tank slot. Waiting times are only so long for DDs because they are much more abundant than tanks (and heals). This imbalance diminishes when they get a tanks slot though. The real time loss starts when the group wipes over and over due to not having a tank.

Except, as a dps, I'd rather wait for an actual tank than get roped into a pseudo-tank's shenanigans. I don't care if it's extra time.

Seriously. They're not doing me or the others any favors by taking us out of queue (where we might have landed in a group with a real tank) to deal with them. I'd appreciate it if they stopped pretending they were.

nnargun

Agreed. Nonetheless, as a matter of fact, it's just not true that they steal the slot of another DD. If at all they steal a tanks slot.

Alexandrious

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

you people need to learn the meaning of words...that guy did not cheat ***...you are just a simpleton who don't get it...where does it say you have to be full T/H/DD/DD grp? right now you can go 4 DD with vigor and finish everything...tanks are overrated the way ESO is right now...and seriously...don't QQ when you get *** groups while using damn dungeon finder tool...if you so good then get a guild and get a proper group and stop whining...qqing about finding noobs and dimwits in dung finder is like complaining there is 2 much water in the ocean...

Its true, thats why I as a 310 cp dk tank with purple and gold plague doctor and ebon and monster helms always seemed to be thanked for tanking, thanked for not being a fake, thanked for beink well, a dk tank, and when the 660cp "elitist" players try to kick my gf who has 170 cp cuz her cp is low spite she has purple and gold dps set herself with purple jewelry and knows how to rotation and ani cancel, I warn them that if they kick her, I walk, then they think really really hard about it, can hear the gears whirring, then they decide to deal with it and try to show just how "pro" they are....

.....oh wait.....dont need you say? I think the majority of players who dont even go on this board will disagree......

Kek

scipionumatia

months ago I had a guy que as a tank in CoS who turned out to be a werewolf come the first boss. we were all talking, he was cool enough I asked him jokingly how he holds agro with werewolf and he goes "well, I kinda don't, more of a pvp tank" it was whatever had a slow run but completed it no biggie

if he was a *** though it would of been insta kick, if the persons cool ill roll with it unless we get stuck and actually cant complete it

Megabear

Alexandrious wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

you people need to learn the meaning of words...that guy did not cheat ***...you are just a simpleton who don't get it...where does it say you have to be full T/H/DD/DD grp? right now you can go 4 DD with vigor and finish everything...tanks are overrated the way ESO is right now...and seriously...don't QQ when you get *** groups while using damn dungeon finder tool...if you so good then get a guild and get a proper group and stop whining...qqing about finding noobs and dimwits in dung finder is like complaining there is 2 much water in the ocean...

Its true, thats why I as a 310 cp dk tank with purple and gold plague doctor and ebon and monster helms always seemed to be thanked for tanking, thanked for not being a fake, thanked for beink well, a dk tank, and when the 660cp "elitist" players try to kick my gf who has 170 cp cuz her cp is low spite she has purple and gold dps set herself with purple jewelry and knows how to rotation and ani cancel, I warn them that if they kick her, I walk, then they think really really hard about it, can hear the gears whirring, then they decide to deal with it and try to show just how "pro" they are....

.....oh wait.....dont need you say? I think the majority of players who dont even go on this board will disagree......

Kek

Gave you an awesome for the kek.

Megabear

Grabmoore wrote: »

Mithoron wrote: »

We did a normal COS the other day and some NB with a LIGHTNING staff queued in as a tank....he quickly got the boot as well....

You kicked him from Normal CoS??? I would be happy about someone providing off balance with lightning wall and thank him for not wasting a precious DD spot with a tank in normal dungeons....

You know he could've soloed it Yes?

Heck I leveled my warden tank in light armor, so that I would have it maxed when hitting 50. I then tanked the first vet dungeon (EH I) in light Level 30 armor without a healer in group! Oh yeah, of course I had lightning staff in back bar (you know like even top tanks would, see vHoF 2nd boss) .

People.....

I would kick him from a delve if it required a que. It's a matter of fairness.

Tan9oSuccka

Megabear wrote: »

I always vote to kick fake tanks. If the vote doesn't pass, I simply leave and just log in another character and que a dungeon. This process saves my limited playing time.

Agreed. Don't waste our time scrub DPS guy.

Wait your turn, like a grown up.

Riejael

Seems like the decision has been made by the community. If you fake tank, you get booted. Either premade or conform, that's just how it will be.

I've seen a few fake DPS lately. Sword and Board users that accidentally Puncture from time to time. Usually what happens is they Puncture and then die because they actually are geared for DPS, and don't have tank mitigation/health. But a dead DPS is a useless DPS. When asked about it, they say they're leveling S&B.

Go do dolmens for that, not dungeons. Fake anything is getting the boot. No debate, no discussion, no excuses, decision has been made, and already being done. That's just how it is, and how it will be. This post is the only warning, whether they can see it or not, no care of mine.

nimander99

I'm a $hitty tank... Its why I don't enter the queue. *sad face emoji*

Iselin

To summarize a lot of the posts in this thread...

"I is 1337. You shall suffer my whims 'cause I earned the right to do whatever I want and you are a noob"

Is that about right?

Megabear

nimander99 wrote: »

I'm a $hitty tank... Its why I don't enter the queue. *sad face emoji*

I wouldn't kick you. I'd carry you, at least you're a tank.

Riejael

Iselin wrote: »

To summarize a lot of the posts in this thread...

"I is 1337. You shall suffer my whims 'cause I earned the right to do whatever I want and you are a noob"

Is that about right?

That would be true if a group leader could unilaterally boot someone. But in PUGs, its a vote. And it has to be Three people. If someone is booted, for any reason, even illegal reasons, it was still done by the vote of the other three.

So its more like, 'we are better, you're not'. If that makes you feel better. Its more of a dictatorship of the majority than a democracy, but.. its a fact you have to deal with. You just have to make your choice to keep playing with it or not.

rotaugen454

So, if you are driving on a freeway and come to an exit with a line, it's ok to drive on the shoulder of the road and skip the line? I will not run with liars.

code65536

Let's say a light armor DPS with 18K health queues as a tank, and they spend most of the dungeon time doing DPS. But they have Inner Fire on their back bar. They do taunt the priority targets, they do hold the targets steady, and they do block the important attacks so that they don't get killed or knocked around all over the place (which then causes the target to move around too). Are they a tank? Or a fake tank?

Let's say someone with 30K health in heavy armor and sword-and-shield queue in as a tank. They do no DPS. But they don't understand what taunting is for. Or they do taunt, but run around the room like a headless chicken kiting things all over the place. Or maybe they don't understand the importance of blocking, and then get killed or get knocked around the room (causing targets to run around). Are they a tank? Or a fake tank?

Let's say someone queues as a DPS. They spend the entire time light-attacking (with some snipes thrown in here and there) from a safe distance. Are they a DPS? Or a fake DPS?

I never vote kick anyone from a dungeon unless they're being an a**hole. Typically, the only people I would vote-kick off are those who initiate unwarranted vote-kicks. I've been in dungeons that I've tanked in DPS gear setup where I single-handedly did over 50% of the DPS, over 50% of the healing, while also holding aggro. If I'm the "fake" tank, then I was in a group with "fake" DPS and "fake" healers. And frankly, if I am holding aggro, then I am doing more than many of the so-called "real" tanks I've seen in random PUGs.

Amadis001

DocFrost72 wrote: »

The moment you select a role in the dungeon finder, you must be able to perform that role. I don't even think that is up for debate.

This. Life is too short. I'll vote to kick you as soon as I see you're not actually trying to heal anyone as a healer, tank (even approximately) correctly as a tank, or kill stuff as a DPS. Yes, I've seen this last case, where some DPS decides just to wander off looting stuff, never to return, while the other three of us do all the work.

On the other hand, I got this the other day while running a DPS alt through a normal dungeon: "I'm new to tanking, please don't get mad if I mess up". Well, I'm usually the tank, and I had a blast working with this young padawan. He did messed up enough that people would have wanted to kick him as a fake tank if he hadn't been upfront about intending to do his best. It took us much longer than it should have to work our way though the run, but we did it, and had a good time.

nnargun

There should be a poll to see if people prefer to run vet dungeons with a real or a fake tank. If the majority prefers real there is really nothing to discuss here.

bhagwad

code65536 wrote: »

Let's say a light armor DPS with 18K health queues as a tank, and they spend most of the dungeon time doing DPS. But they have Inner Fire on their back bar. They do taunt the priority targets, they do hold the targets steady, and they do block the important attacks so that they don't get killed or knocked around all over the place (which then causes the target to move around too). Are they a tank? Or a fake tank?

Let's say someone with 30K health in heavy armor and sword-and-shield queue in as a tank. They do no DPS. But they don't understand what taunting is for. Or they do taunt, but run around the room like a headless chicken kiting things all over the place. Or maybe they don't understand the importance of blocking, and then get killed or get knocked around the room (causing targets to run around). Are they a tank? Or a fake tank?

Let's say someone queues as a DPS. They spend the entire time light-attacking (with some snipes thrown in here and there) from a safe distance. Are they a DPS? Or a fake DPS?

I never vote kick anyone from a dungeon unless they're being an a**hole. Typically, the only people I would vote-kick off are those who initiate unwarranted vote-kicks. I've been in dungeons that I've tanked in DPS gear setup where I single-handedly did over 50% of the DPS, over 50% of the healing, while also holding aggro. If I'm the "fake" tank, then I was in a group with "fake" DPS and "fake" healers. And frankly, if I am holding aggro, then I am doing more than many of the so-called "real" tanks I've seen in random PUGs.

Your scenarios:

1. Is a tank
2. Is a tank (a bad tank, but still a tank)
3. Is a DPS (bad DPS, but still a DPS)

You don't seem to understand - this thread is not about bad tanks, or tanks who don't understand what their role is. Those individuals can be made to improve.

This thread is about people who queue as tanks even though they have no intention of performing the role of a tank, and they still queue as one in order to reduce their wait times.

Mady

The fake tank was right when he said that you could do it without a tank. But then do it with your own group and don't queue up in the dungeon finder. Well done, OP!

Ashtaris

I remember the time I was asked to come in and tank the final boss in Vet Banished Cell II. They had a fake tank who they finally had to kick and asked me to step in. I ended up tanking 5 of the Daedroth during the fight because they didn't have the best DPS, at least they were able to finish the dungeon. One of the DPS at the end of the fight commented "And that's why you have a real tank". You might not have the best DPS in the world, but if you have a good tank and healer it can make the difference.

Kuramas9tails

My boyfriend and I can 2 man some vet dungeons as DPS. It's easier to just two man as DPS rather than deal with randoms sometimes. But him and I both have a tank and I have a healer for situations just like that. It's easier to find a DPS than a tank or healer. With that said, yes, sometimes you need a full on tank but you also need competent DPS and healer at times. I have ran into more incompetent DPS than I have tanks.

It's how it goes on an MMO. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Iselin

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

My boyfriend and I can 2 man some vet dungeons as DPS. It's easier to just two man as DPS rather than deal with randoms sometimes. But him and I both have a tank and I have a healer for situations just like that. It's easier to find a DPS than a tank or healer. With that said, yes, sometimes you need a full on tank but you also need competent DPS and healer at times. I have ran into more incompetent DPS than I have tanks.

It's how it goes on an MMO. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Elementary statistics makes it pretty obvious that you will run into more bad DPS than bad tanks since they outnumber tanks at least 20 if not 50 to 1.

The point was and still is, queue for a role you can perform even if badly. The problem is selfishness and dishonesty not less than ideal performance.

DMuehlhausen

Bhaal5 wrote: »

Im confussed by all the salt.

1st, Who actually uses group finder? I simply ask my guildies, spots filled up in minutes and then we do the dungeon. No que and no crying needed.
2nd, depending on your level, if you're doing base game dungeons you can 4 dps them in most cases, so no need for a tank or healer (dlc dungeons are harder and may need atleast one of these rolls if not both). If new/lower cp, refer to the first statement. Ask mates, not pugs. Problem solved, happy gaming.

Response: Most still use Dungeon Finder. not everyone is in a guild (majority) that have tons of people in them. On top of that guilds have multiple "guilds" in side them where people only run with certain people forcing others to use the dungeon finder.

notimetocare

bhagwad wrote: »

If you queue for a vet dungeon as a fake tank (actually DPS), you get kicked plain and simple. It's cheating the dungeon finder, and you just abuse it to get shorter queue times. Wait in line like the rest of us:


[snip] [edited out for name]


And afterwards we found a REAL tank, and we had a blast finishing the dungeon. Explained all the mechanics via chat and it all worked out. Here's a screenshot of our happiness after killing the last boss:



Moral of the story. In a vet dungeon, tank means TANK. That means taunt and hold boss still - at the very least. If you want to DPS, then queue as a DPS and wait your turn like the rest of us. It annoys me so much because I play a tank myself and know how much value I bring to a team in a vet dungeon. To see that value thrown away because some *** decided to be a pro DPS pisses me off.

Be a tank, or I will aggressively ask the others to kick you like it happened here.

Edit: I am SUPER impressed that the English forum software censored my French curse word :P

Obly cheating if they can perform the role enough to finish the dungeon. Just because you are sour you cant does not validate your butthurt

Bhaal5

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Bhaal5 wrote: »

Im confussed by all the salt.

1st, Who actually uses group finder? I simply ask my guildies, spots filled up in minutes and then we do the dungeon. No que and no crying needed.
2nd, depending on your level, if you're doing base game dungeons you can 4 dps them in most cases, so no need for a tank or healer (dlc dungeons are harder and may need atleast one of these rolls if not both). If new/lower cp, refer to the first statement. Ask mates, not pugs. Problem solved, happy gaming.

Response: Most still use Dungeon Finder. not everyone is in a guild (majority) that have tons of people in them. On top of that guilds have multiple "guilds" in side them where people only run with certain people forcing others to use the dungeon finder.

Yeah right, my heart goes out to you and others in your situation. Guilds are what you make them, youre not going to click with all 500 but you should have atleast have 1 guild you enjoy doing things with? If not, whats the point of playing a mmo?
I use dungeon finder maybe once every month, and that to test a build with "randoms that just do what ever"

Samadhi

nnargun wrote: »

Agreed. Nonetheless, as a matter of fact, it's just not true that they steal the slot of another DD. If at all they steal a tanks slot.

It only really sucks if they get kicked part way through a vet pledge
have to drop back out and deal with a 15 minute queue penalty
or finish it, run it a second time to get the missing boss
and get stuck with no hard mode key bonus

turns a 1-3 minute wait for a dungeon into a 20 minute wait
e.e

Elrond87

i sometimes search as all roles and re-log to what role is needed and get re-invited

bhagwad

notimetocare wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

If you queue for a vet dungeon as a fake tank (actually DPS), you get kicked plain and simple. It's cheating the dungeon finder, and you just abuse it to get shorter queue times. Wait in line like the rest of us:


[snip] [edited out for name]


And afterwards we found a REAL tank, and we had a blast finishing the dungeon. Explained all the mechanics via chat and it all worked out. Here's a screenshot of our happiness after killing the last boss:



Moral of the story. In a vet dungeon, tank means TANK. That means taunt and hold boss still - at the very least. If you want to DPS, then queue as a DPS and wait your turn like the rest of us. It annoys me so much because I play a tank myself and know how much value I bring to a team in a vet dungeon. To see that value thrown away because some *** decided to be a pro DPS pisses me off.

Be a tank, or I will aggressively ask the others to kick you like it happened here.

Edit: I am SUPER impressed that the English forum software censored my French curse word :P

Obly cheating if they can perform the role enough to finish the dungeon. Just because you are sour you cant does not validate your butthurt

A DPS who has no intention of tanking is not "performing the role" enough.