Fake Tank = Kick - Chat Screenshots

itsfatbass

80% of the dungeons don't need heals OR a tank. You can go 4 dps all day long. And I queue as a tank role all the time on some pledges etc while dps, but I have the courtesy to run a taunt. But OP is wrong, there is not SET RULE that you must be wearing heavy armor with sword and shield to use tank role lol

bhagwad wrote: »

It just goes to show that ZOS thinks a tank's role is critical in a dungeon finder based vet dungeon. Ask anyone who's used the dungeon finder, and they'll tell you that 90% of vet dungeons formed via the dungeon finder DO NOT need a tank.

There I fixed it for you, coming from someone whos used the dungeon finder for years.

bhagwad

jphipps85b14_ESO1 wrote: »

80% of the dungeons don't need heals OR a tank. You can go 4 dps all day long. And I queue as a tank role all the time on some pledges etc while dps, but I have the courtesy to run a taunt. But OP is wrong, there is not SET RULE that you must be wearing heavy armor with sword and shield to use tank role lol

I never made the claim that a tank must be wearing heavy armor, or use a sword and shield. Where did you get that idea from? All I ask is that you try and be a tank, whatever means you use.

While 80% of dungeons might not need heals or a tank when played perfectly, 80% of dungeon groups formed via the dungeon finder need heals and a tank.

RANKK7

It's totally lame showing up with this kind of badassery "no tank no healer needed evaaar", the point is not what content crucially requires which roles or the ability to run which content with no need of those roles, the point is queuing in a group for a specific role and being blatantly unable to fulfill; the other members have all the right to be pissed seeing that's not about little experience but merely an attempt to skip the queue.
As another user was rightly saying, many are able to solo hard content, that doesn't mean it's always ok having in group a fake tank or healer, because it's not like we are wearing the same gear or slotting same skills as in solo situations, something is expected, some support at least, and while I do not kick anyone but rude people (I tolerate even fake tank or healers), sometimes I'm definitely not happy to mess up my bars big to accommodate and even slot myself ele drain, that happened way more than once and in one occasion the other DD, a top player, not my cousin Joe, left writing pretty strong insults to the fake healer.
If it's not pugs for farming runs where there are no roles and rules, jumping in as a tank or healer not even trying is not taken lightly by some, and the more experienced the players, the more they could be pissed (that's because truly able to observe exactly what the fake is doing, or not doing). And in the end, the extra damage the fake brings is not usually remotely worth the hassle of completely self sustaining, slotting ele and self heal or deal with mobs scattered all around while the boss chases members, that extra damage is no any favor, so it can be just a huge waste of time.


edit:bear with my bad English, time has passed, my grammar still sucks tho

ForsakenSin

bhagwad wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Ps i have to agree as well most of the dungeons you can just go with all DPS and ive came across those as well in pugs, and it was a speed run all the time .. easy and quick.

It doesn't bother you that the "fake tank" cheated the queue to get a dungeon quickly, whereas the genuine DPS guys might have had to honestly wait 40 minutes for their turn to play?

Would the "fake tank" have queued as a tank if the wait times were the same for all roles? If the answer is "no", then it's pretty obvious that they're cheaters.

honestly no.. see here is the thing... we are all assuming that.. "he waited 4 min to get in as fake tank where others had to wait for 40 min to queue as proper dps its not fair " but here is the thing we don't know the whole story so it makes no difference to me its all assumption.

For all i/we know the poor guy queued up as dps for over 1hr waiting and waiting and waiting got frustrated and tried his luck to queue up as tank and hoped for two things.

1) Nobody would kick him because he queued up as tank.
2) The rest would be good enough players they don't need a tank to begin with.

So honestly it dose not bother me one bit, as long as they know what they are doing im fine with it



to add something i agree with Op on these if you are running Ruins Of Mazzatun, Cradle of Shadows,Bloodroot Forge, Falkreath Hold the more challenging dungeons on vet ....if you choose to be a Tank , DPS or Healer you better be damm sure you select the right profession otherwise bye bye !

bhagwad

ForsakenSin wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Ps i have to agree as well most of the dungeons you can just go with all DPS and ive came across those as well in pugs, and it was a speed run all the time .. easy and quick.

It doesn't bother you that the "fake tank" cheated the queue to get a dungeon quickly, whereas the genuine DPS guys might have had to honestly wait 40 minutes for their turn to play?

Would the "fake tank" have queued as a tank if the wait times were the same for all roles? If the answer is "no", then it's pretty obvious that they're cheaters.

honestly no.. see here is the thing... we are all assuming that.. "he waited 4 min to get in as fake tank where others had to wait for 40 min to queue as proper dps its not fair " but here is the thing we don't know the whole story so it makes no difference to me its all assumption.

For all i/we know the poor guy queued up as dps for over 1hr waiting and waiting and waiting got frustrated and tried his luck to queue up as tank and hoped for two things.

1) Nobody would kick him because he queued up as tank.
2) The rest would be good enough players they don't need a tank to begin with.

So honestly it dose not bother me one bit, as long as they know what they are doing im fine with it

That hypothetical scenarios is even worse, because if they waited for 1hr without getting a dungeon, imagine the other DPS'ers who queued honestly and how long would they have waited to get their turn!

This kind of "cutting the line" should not be tolerated in the virtual world, any more than it is in the real world, where you can't simply jump into the middle of a queue without pissing off everyone who's respecting the system, and who will almost certainly toss you out with a flea in your ear. And justly so.

Savos_Saren

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

I que everyday as a tank in sun/bsw. Put 2 block cost glyphs on that And you've got a tank that does dmg. Best way to do speed runs.

@Brutusmax1mus I do the same thing. I'll tank in BSW, Silks, and Valkyn while doing beaucoup damage and actually fulfilling my role as a tank (holding aggro, crowd control, positioning) However, I don't tank vet DLC dungeons with that setup. I'll use a real tank for those.

For those of you who wonder what stats you can get with 5l/1m/1h tanking:

heng14rwb17_ESO

Fake tank healer dps means kick.

Osteos

If you use group finder you should be able to perform the role you queued for. If you want to run 4 dps or anything outside the norm then use your guilds or zone.

Calsifer

It would be nice if on vet mode the finder would not let you queue as a role you do not have the skills for on your ability bar. No Taunt, no ability to queue as a tank. No heals, no ability to queue as a healer.

raj72616a

if the "tank" rushed ahead to boss alone, does 30k+ single target dps without support, manages to survive without healing, and downs the bosses so fast that we don’t even notice that there is no taunt, i have no problem abt “cheating the queue”.

phontom78kiss

hmmm....argument if Vet dungeons need a tank or not..In Vet dungeons each individual needs to do there roles...Most that argue Vet dungeons do not need each individual role designations are the same ones that by pass the finder wait time and que as a fake tank...actually be honest and admit you do not want to wait that long.....
Well that's the risk of going random..

Horowonnoe

I like pugs. Fun to meet new people.

strebor2095

As a tank player, whenever I switch to my magsorc I will queue as all roles. Ive got a Resto and my Matriarch in case I end up healing, and if I get tank job I will equip inner fire and shield spam.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Darkestnght wrote: »

In these cases I just leave the group. In fact I have quite a few personal rules I use for leaving a group if I see something I do not like or if people are being rude in anyway.

Like the lone speed running tank who just charges to the end boss aggroing everything on the way but killing nothing and not waiting for the rest of the GROUP? Thats my main bugaboo

Smasherx74

He could at least throw on inner fire ffs

Maryal

I agree with the OP ... if you queue as (whatever) role, you are basically telling others that you will and are able to fulfill that role. You are trying to cheat the system when you lie about your ability and willingness to fulfill your indicated role.

On the other hand, not everyone needs or is looking for a traditional group set-up to complete a dungeon. In other words, not everyone checking multiple roles is trying to cheat the system.

The problem is that the group finder's UI is configured for traditional group setups, there is nothing in it that lets you opt in for a non-traditional group structure.

To help reduce some of the problems associated with using the group finder, perhaps the UI could be expanded to give people the option to select 'traditional' or 'non traditional' for the type of group they're looking for.

Traditional
Select 'traditional group' when you are interested in filling the traditional group role you have selected (you can only select one role) AND you want to be placed with others interested in forming a traditional group structure.

Nontraditional
Select 'nontraditional' when you can 'multi-task' two roles in a reasonable manner and are willing to be grouped up with other similarly situated people.

The role options for 'nontraditional' groups would be: tank/healer; tank/dps; healer/dps; or healer/tank

To give you an idea of how a nontraditional group could be configured, below are two examples:
3 healer/dps and 1 tank/dps , or
2 tank/dps, 1 tank/healer, and 1 healer/dps.

Anyway, it's just an idea to help reduce some of the problems when using the group finder.

Linaleah

bhagwad wrote: »

jphipps85b14_ESO1 wrote: »

80% of the dungeons don't need heals OR a tank. You can go 4 dps all day long. And I queue as a tank role all the time on some pledges etc while dps, but I have the courtesy to run a taunt. But OP is wrong, there is not SET RULE that you must be wearing heavy armor with sword and shield to use tank role lol

I never made the claim that a tank must be wearing heavy armor, or use a sword and shield. Where did you get that idea from? All I ask is that you try and be a tank, whatever means you use.

While 80% of dungeons might not need heals or a tank when played perfectly, 80% of dungeon groups formed via the dungeon finder need heals and a tank.

from my experience just now, braving group-finder... on normal mind you - I'm not ready to brave vet with group of people I don't know - above is correct.

I have ran normal cradle of shadows with guildies in full dps group, and some judicious application of vigor was basically enough to finish the while thing. and just now i ran wayrest sewers 2 and I absolutely positively HAD to heal and heal a LOT. at one point I was pretty much spamming my matriarch heal becasue everyone was taking THAT much damage. and not this is not a complaint, otherwise, my experience was perfectly lovely, people were nice and no one died even once. I just mean, I had to actualy work for it

so yeah. technically most dungeons, especially on normal don't really need tank or healer, but in practice - not every group, especially random group is going to have that experience.

ForsakenSin

bhagwad wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

ForsakenSin wrote: »

Ps i have to agree as well most of the dungeons you can just go with all DPS and ive came across those as well in pugs, and it was a speed run all the time .. easy and quick.

It doesn't bother you that the "fake tank" cheated the queue to get a dungeon quickly, whereas the genuine DPS guys might have had to honestly wait 40 minutes for their turn to play?

Would the "fake tank" have queued as a tank if the wait times were the same for all roles? If the answer is "no", then it's pretty obvious that they're cheaters.

honestly no.. see here is the thing... we are all assuming that.. "he waited 4 min to get in as fake tank where others had to wait for 40 min to queue as proper dps its not fair " but here is the thing we don't know the whole story so it makes no difference to me its all assumption.

For all i/we know the poor guy queued up as dps for over 1hr waiting and waiting and waiting got frustrated and tried his luck to queue up as tank and hoped for two things.

1) Nobody would kick him because he queued up as tank.
2) The rest would be good enough players they don't need a tank to begin with.

So honestly it dose not bother me one bit, as long as they know what they are doing im fine with it

That hypothetical scenarios is even worse, because if they waited for 1hr without getting a dungeon, imagine the other DPS'ers who queued honestly and how long would they have waited to get their turn!

This kind of "cutting the line" should not be tolerated in the virtual world, any more than it is in the real world, where you can't simply jump into the middle of a queue without pissing off everyone who's respecting the system, and who will almost certainly toss you out with a flea in your ear. And justly so.

actually "at hypothetical scenarios is even worse, because if they waited for 1hr without getting a dungeon, imagine the other DPS'ers who queued honestly and how long would they have waited to get their turn!" that would be wrong

correct me if i am wrong but i thought group finder works this way


1st DPS A logs on 1hr and is queued for same dungeon but because people don't click on ready it keeps on pushing him to be in front of the que however each time he gets in, the same things happen somebody is not ready and he is back to waiting.

he gets frustrated and clicks on to be tank and gets in everybody clicks ready...

Now at the same time DPS B logs in and is waiting for 20 min and as DPS A is tank there is one less position for DPS position and DPS B, he gets in and as everybody clicks ready he is in the same group as tank DPS A with much less waiting time.



Also there is way too many hypothetical in which one case i would be right and other you would be lol but its fun to explore many scenarios that could occur

VaranisArano

If you want to run a dungeon, normal or veteran, with whatever combination of roles you want, please manually queue yourself with a group of like-minded buddies. Everyone agreed to run whatever combination of roles you want to, everyone's happy.

If you want to run a dungeon, normal or veteran, queued for whatever roles you actually can fulfill on ALL dungeons you could possibly get, go for it. That means if you can tank/DPS vet Fungal Grotto 1 but can't tank/DPS vet White Gold Tower or Falkreath Hold, you don't queue as tank/dps for random veteran dungeons. Same for normals. I've got a DPS/tank stam sorc who can tank most normal dungeons but not all, so I only queue as a dps for random normals with her because I don't want to let groups down by being a bad tank with her. On the other hand, if you can fill any of the roles you've queued for on any dungeon that you've queued for, rock on! As long as you fill the roles you queued for, the group gets what they need.

If you want to run a dungeon, normal or veteran, queued for one or more roles that you CAN'T fulfill, through the groupfinder, your new group members did not consent to run without whatever role you can't fill. No, your totally amazing DPS does not compensate for the lackluster or lack of tanking or healing. You are putting your desire to run whatever you want over your group members' reasonable expectation that they get the role you queued for. That's rude and selfish. You may be of the opinion that a tank is totally not necessary for the content. That's great - go get your own group together and manually queue. Random groups don't deserve to have your opinion about the necessity of tanks and/or heals forced upon them. A DPS/tank who is does great DPS but is a bad tank who got queued as a tank is not a great DPS; they are a bad tank.

People who queue up as roles that they know they cannot fill well enough for the content they've chosen are selfishly forcing their poor play on the other members of their group who did not consent to play with someone lying about which role they are playing. However, someone who wants to run dungeons without the "tank, healer, DPS, DPS" roles is perfectly free to form his/her own group of players who have consented to the combination of roles and play the content in whatever manner is best for them.

paulsimonps

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you want to run a dungeon, normal or veteran, with whatever combination of roles you want, please manually queue yourself with a group of like-minded buddies. Everyone agreed to run whatever combination of roles you want to, everyone's happy.

If you want to run a dungeon, normal or veteran, queued for whatever roles you actually can fulfill on ALL dungeons you could possibly get, go for it. That means if you can tank/DPS vet Fungal Grotto 1 but can't tank/DPS vet White Gold Tower or Falkreath Hold, you don't queue as tank/dps for random veteran dungeons. Same for normals. I've got a DPS/tank stam sorc who can tank most normal dungeons but not all, so I only queue as a dps for random normals with her because I don't want to let groups down by being a bad tank with her. On the other hand, if you can fill any of the roles you've queued for on any dungeon that you've queued for, rock on! As long as you fill the roles you queued for, the group gets what they need.

If you want to run a dungeon, normal or veteran, queued for one or more roles that you CAN'T fulfill, through the groupfinder, your new group members did not consent to run without whatever role you can't fill. No, your totally amazing DPS does not compensate for the lackluster or lack of tanking or healing. You are putting your desire to run whatever you want over your group members' reasonable expectation that they get the role you queued for. That's rude and selfish. You may be of the opinion that a tank is totally not necessary for the content. That's great - go get your own group together and manually queue. Random groups don't deserve to have your opinion about the necessity of tanks and/or heals forced upon them. A DPS/tank who is does great DPS but is a bad tank who got queued as a tank is not a great DPS; they are a bad tank.

People who queue up as roles that they know they cannot fill well enough for the content they've chosen are selfishly forcing their poor play on the other members of their group who did not consent to play with someone lying about which role they are playing. However, someone who wants to run dungeons without the "tank, healer, DPS, DPS" roles is perfectly free to form his/her own group of players who have consented to the combination of roles and play the content in whatever manner is best for them.

Yup this.

People seem like they didn't read everything properly

WE KNOW YOU CAN DO IT WITH 4 DPS's BUT MOST PEOPLE DON'T WANT THAT! When they queue they expect a certain group set up, most people prefer and or NEED a Tank and a Healer. You being a pure DPS queue as either one of those things is a real D move. If you want 4 DPS then group manually. Its not that hard.

NotNormanBates

OP is a dimwit plain and simple

ArcaneBlue

saw the title, clicked on it, thinking there'd be many "but you don't need a tank or healer for the most dungeons so who cares" "I do this all the time and honestly I don't have any problems" "the most dungeons can be solo'd so if you NEED a tank then you are just bad" "dungeons runs are much faster with 3 DDs and a healer or just 4 DDs" kind of replies_ and I was right.

it really is sad, that tanking has been made kinda redundant. yes I have been playing since 2014. yes I am very well aware that you can solo or duo many dungeons, even DLC ones. that doesn't mean I like it when I get grouped with a DD who queue as a support role just to get a fast queue time though. it just is not honest, some may call me naive but I just don't think it's a good sport really. I don't care how good of a DD the person is, but if you queue as a tank and just rush ahead of everyone and go yolo into mobs with no intention of filling the role you queued as, I wouldn't be happy. I didn't queue to be spoon fed easy XP by a fake tank.

I have said this in some other thread here and on another ESO related forum, but I really wish people were more honest about their roles and intentions

Rianai

Iselin wrote: »

That's not the point.

Besides the fact that when queued for randoms you might get anything - even those that do require a tank, the fact that a lot of people gloss over in these threads is that it's a DPSer gaming the system which makes the wait time for all the other honest DPSers longer. That's the real issue.

bhagwad wrote: »

It doesn't bother you that the "fake tank" cheated the queue to get a dungeon quickly, whereas the genuine DPS guys might have had to honestly wait 40 minutes for their turn to play?

Would the "fake tank" have queued as a tank if the wait times were the same for all roles? If the answer is "no", then it's pretty obvious that they're cheaters.

What's up with those stupid "cheater" calls? You know that DPS have to wait for so long, because not enough players are queueing as healers and tanks? (Probably because of all those "fake" dps, who can make runs as pure healer or tank quite painful). So everyone who queues as healer or tank is actually reducing the queue time for other DPS players ...
And whether they can perform their role or not depends entirely on the players themself, not on the role(s) they queued for.

Inhuman003

Forget about fake tanks we need to talk about fake Healers someone please write a posts about that.

Tasear

.They get put into eso group finder tutorial called "why did I get kicked".You do yourself a disservice when don't kick them. If you allow them to think it's okay then you are also part of problem too.

thedude33

I know the OP....or at least his/her type. I followed one of them today on the highway. They were in the LEFT lane, doing the speed limit, making sure the 100 cars directly behind obeyed the speed limit also.

Qbiken

I almost want to put you on my ignore list by just reading this.......

First you try, and if it doesn´t work, then you kick/leave the group.

bhagwad wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

On one hand, you really shouldn't queue as a role you're not unless you're in a group with 3 other friends and want to do randoms together as 4 dps.

On the other hand, some vet dungeons really don't require a tank to complete assuming the group members are semi-competent. Fungal Grotto II is one such dungeon.

If it's a random dungeon finder group, we can't assume that people know the mechanics. Like here, I had to explain the mechanics for each and every boss. A tank is absolutely invaluable for those situations! Even Fungar Grotto II. Like keeping the Spawn of Mephala still, and Reggar as well.

A tank brings order to chaos. If you're in a random dungeon finder, we cannot cheat the queue like that!

Then you can´t assume that someone who qued legitimate as a tank knows how to tank.....And FG2 is a bad example, only time you need to move is when she does her big read aoe, otherwise you can stay still the entire fight. The only vet-dungeons I wouldn´t consider doing on vet without a tank are the Shadow of the hist ones, and the new ones that came with Horns of the Reach.

Sru

SquareSausage wrote: »

You can pretty much 4 dps any vet dungeon except some of the DLC ones, 3 dps makes it go quicker.

I'd give it a shot and if not working sure, kick him. But if things are dying fast, no tank required.

I guess OP is obv just a grump with a chip on his shoulder.

<sigh> How can the original post's intention not be understood? Ah yes, this is a PUG thread ...

Yes, you are right.

No, that does not make a queue jumping, self-absorbed snowflake right in jumping over other DPS's and stopping a real tank getting the role. For that real tank, dungeons can be the only way of getting decent xp fast.

Thread hijacked by sorcs saying tanks not needed .... until their squishy butts are handed to them in vet DLCs.

Tanks get to learn their role by .. err .. what's the phrase .. oh yes, L2P. How can they learn to play if someone is pretending to be their role just to get their "fun" faster than others? Perhaps my tank should queue as a DPS - oh, wait - there are 200 DPS to each tank as the level of skill for an average DPS to play is substantially less than an average tank.

If you want to 4 man a dungeon with 4 sorcs, by all means go and get friends to do it. At least respect others by not lying about what role you can perform. If your DPS can honestly taunt, know how to keep big baddies in one spot, keep archers off a healer, interrupt foe, pack adds into nice tight groups,not die to one-shots and debuff then brilliant. But it is still not your job and you are stopping a tank from learning those things.

altemriel

bhagwad wrote: »

If you queue for a vet dungeon as a fake tank (actually DPS), you get kicked plain and simple. It's cheating the dungeon finder, and you just abuse it to get shorter queue times. Wait in line like the rest of us:


[snip] [edited out for name]


And afterwards we found a REAL tank, and we had a blast finishing the dungeon. Explained all the mechanics via chat and it all worked out. Here's a screenshot of our happiness after killing the last boss:



Moral of the story. In a vet dungeon, tank means TANK. That means taunt and hold boss still - at the very least. If you want to DPS, then queue as a DPS and wait your turn like the rest of us. It annoys me so much because I play a tank myself and know how much value I bring to a team in a vet dungeon. To see that value thrown away because some *** decided to be a pro DPS pisses me off.

Be a tank, or I will aggressively ask the others to kick you like it happened here.

Edit: I am SUPER impressed that the English forum software censored my French curse word :P

totally agree!!

normal dungeon, usually not needed, 3 DDs are ok, but veteran not, you need a tank!

cheaters -> kick, easy as that

MLGProPlayer

Belyar wrote: »

Most base game vet dungeons can be easily done with 3 DD as long as the healer is good. Sorry but you were the ****** here and not that guy who wanted to have fun and clear the dungeon fast. DLC dungeons are a different story.

They can easily be done with 4 DPS. It's actually the optimal way to speed run content.

However, if you're queuing with dungeon finder, it means you want a proper team comp. Don't cheat the system. If you want a non-traditional team comp, find it using zone/guild chat.