Fake Tank = Kick - Chat Screenshots

DocFrost72

Daus wrote: »

So shall we kick anyone that doesn't perform 25k+ DPS? Any less and it's less than adequate.

We can't have any fake DPS now.

The point.

















Your head.

Basically, asking 25k from dps you find in a random pug is kind of unreasonable. Asking a dps to not spam taunt and block, or just heal everyone is totally legitimate, right?

We're not asking for Torug's and Alkosh DK only.
We're asking you to do the job you signed up for. Nothing more, nothing less.

Jeremy

Daus wrote: »

So shall we kick anyone that doesn't perform 25k+ DPS? Any less and it's less than adequate.

We can't have any fake DPS now.

Under-performing DPS get kicked all the time.

But that is beside the point. What we are talking about here are people who queue as a tank yet don't tank. They do it for a faster queue times - which isn't fair to other players waiting their turn in the queue.

BNOC

Players like you lot literally ruined this game for a lot of people with your consistent whining to get the game as casual friendly as possible.

It's nearly 2018, not 2015. People can solo this stuff now and 4 DPS with an OH or self heals has been a thing for about 2 years, since people had 300CP and the most basic of gear we have access to today.

Go whine about some real issues, not some guy that's coming in to probably carry you.

VaranisArano

Daus wrote: »

So shall we kick anyone that doesn't perform 25k+ DPS? Any less and it's less than adequate.

We can't have any fake DPS now.

This why I draw a distinction between "Are you a tank?" or "Are you a good tank?"

You can be a DPS if you deal damage. A bad DPS, perhaps, but still a DPS. If you want a guaranteed good DPS that meets your standards, I suggest you manually queue instead of relying on group finder. The same thing is true if you want a guaranteed good tank or healer.

(Although, if you are doing 4-6k DPS, I hate to tell you this but my tank can do that...)

Thannazzar

Frankly if you can hold threat, aren't up and down like an altmer's underwear and the healer isn't running out of magicka keeping you up then your fine.

Queue as a tank in a pug then immediately announce your not one is an insta-kick as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather 3 man the dungeon than enable your lack of game etiquette.

Strider__Roshin

VaranisArano wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

So shall we kick anyone that doesn't perform 25k+ DPS? Any less and it's less than adequate.

We can't have any fake DPS now.

This why I draw a distinction between "Are you a tank?" or "Are you a good tank?"

You can be a DPS if you deal damage. A bad DPS, perhaps, but still a DPS. If you want a guaranteed good DPS that meets your standards, I suggest you manually queue instead of relying on group finder. The same thing is true if you want a guaranteed good tank or healer.

(Although, if you are doing 4-6k DPS, I hate to tell you this but my tank can do that...)

A fair point.

As others have stated previously, a lot of content doesn't need both or any support roles. If we could customize our queue it would help quicken things without misleading people.

For instance if I want only dps then the queue would pair me up with other dps that only want dps.

Bladerunner1

I wonder if anyone with a tank role ever gets bored waiting in the queue and temporarily equips DPS weapons to knock some overland mobs around. Then when the "accept dungeon" request pops up, they hurriedly accept and fumble around as they swap back to tank equipment, then get kicked for appearing in front of the others without a shield.

I've done it a few times but had a quick-swap outfitter add-on so I was able to avoid all the judgementalling.

ookami007

Daus wrote: »

So shall we kick anyone that doesn't perform 25k+ DPS? Any less and it's less than adequate.

We can't have any fake DPS now.

Absolutely... same with a healer how does not actually heal.

rotaugen454

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

I wonder if anyone with a tank role ever gets bored waiting in the queue and temporarily equips DPS weapons to knock some overland mobs around. Then when the "accept dungeon" request pops up, they hurriedly accept and fumble around as they swap back to tank equipment, then get kicked for appearing in front of the others without a shield.

I've done it a few times but had a quick-swap outfitter add-on so I was able to avoid all the judgementalling.

What queue? It's literally 5 seconds for a tank. PC/NA

VaranisArano

rotaugen454 wrote: »

What queue? It's literally 5 seconds for a tank. PC/NA

I knew I was spoiled on my tank when I had to wait for a minute and started wondering whether the groupfinder was broken again...

zaria

VaranisArano wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

What queue? It's literally 5 seconds for a tank. PC/NA

I knew I was spoiled on my tank when I had to wait for a minute and started wondering whether the groupfinder was broken again...

Has started running random normals on my NB and DK, random + dungeon quests + kills is a bit more than one level.
Average queue time is around 10 minutes on PC EU, yes its probably far more for specific dungeons at least if you just have one in list. Know healer might have to wait multiple minutes.
Smart to have multiple, pledges, dungeons you want gear from, dungeons you lack quest from.
You can even queue both normal and vet in same dungeon.

Bevik

raj72616a wrote: »

it's a vicious cycle.
tank and dps slot heal skills coz they met bad healer.
healer and tank come in dps gear coz they met dd who did like 5k dps in vet dungeon.
dps and healer are ready to kite the boss coz they met squishy/non-functional tank.

the more you PUG, the more disillusioned you are with dungeon roles.

You are not very far from the truth. I'm actually thinking to make a Stam DK DPS/tank build because of all the fake tank/dps/healers I've met in NORMAL dungeons. Still I hate those who queue as a tank and get wiped in nCoS for example, and usually the fake players the first who leave the group and then we get a proper tank and finish the dungeon. It's a gamble, if you get an easy dungeon doesn't matter if you are a DPS or a tank. If you get a bad dungeon you waste everyone's time. Don't queue as a tank if you can't taunt or can't survive a heavy attack from a boss, don't queue as a healer if you can't keep your mates alive. (Sorc without the healing matriarch, damn that pet is so OP anyway)

nimander99

I've been playing since launch, Sword and Board magplar. I'm going to use the LFG queue for the first time tonight and follow the advice I've received here. Just be upfront that I haven't run dungeons or groups, mostly played solo. But I want to learn to tank and enjoy the dungeons... A large amount of content I've been missing out on.

A couple people have told me its cool as long as you're up front about it and you are trying to learn. I'm pretty excited! It'll be weird to come out of my loner shell, but screweth it. I wanna run some dungeons!

Doctordarkspawn

Solariken wrote: »

I queue pretty often as tank and wear medium armor full-DPS gear and can't remember the last time I died because if it.

If you know how to actively mitigate damage and keep boss aggro then what's the problem?

Just make sure your "tank" isn't actually a scrub before you start the vote kick.

No.

Fake tank? Real kick. No exeptions. No excuses.

Mazbt

If you hold aggro I don't care what you wear.

KRBMMO

I personally que as DPS and just stand right behind the other DPS and Spam Breath of Life. Easy Peasy for me and I'm always the last to die.

VaranisArano

zaria wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

What queue? It's literally 5 seconds for a tank. PC/NA

I knew I was spoiled on my tank when I had to wait for a minute and started wondering whether the groupfinder was broken again...

Has started running random normals on my NB and DK, random + dungeon quests + kills is a bit more than one level.
Average queue time is around 10 minutes on PC EU, yes its probably far more for specific dungeons at least if you just have one in list. Know healer might have to wait multiple minutes.
Smart to have multiple, pledges, dungeons you want gear from, dungeons you lack quest from.
You can even queue both normal and vet in same dungeon.

This was a joke. I main a tank on PC/NA and I rarely have to wait more than 20 seconds for a queue into a random normal dungeon at any time of the day.

So, the one time I had to wait more than a minute I seriously asked in zone chat if groupfinder was broken because having to wait was so not the normal way this goes. No, groupfinder wasn't broken. I was just spoiled.

Gamerscape2007

Op, do yourself a favor and never play guild wars 2 if you can't hold your own on a vet dungeon.

paulsimonps

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Op, do yourself a favor and never play guild wars 2 if you can't hold your own on a vet dungeon.

Well he doesn't have to, this is ESO not GW2. Your comment is really silly.

Gamerscape2007

paulsimonps wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Op, do yourself a favor and never play guild wars 2 if you can't hold your own on a vet dungeon.

Well he doesn't have to, this is ESO not GW2. Your comment is really silly.

If you actually played gw2, You know my point. Point is, in gw2, it's practically impossible to tank in that game. So you're forced to carry your own weight and use your skill to beat a dungeon with your party.

Eso, sure. It's nice to have a tank to take away all the heat. But truth is, if you can pull your own weight, you don't need a tank. The only time tank are really needed, are for Raids. But that's just it. Who gives a crap if the guy a "fake tank." If he can pull his own weight and you have to kick him because "He isn't really tanking." It just shows how pathetic op is, and he shouldn't be playing this game. Bet he's insecure too. Tell me op, do people pick on you in real life because you're that insecure?

newtinmpls

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Op, do yourself a favor and never play guild wars 2 if you can't hold your own on a vet dungeon.

There may be many people who can "hold their own" in a vet dungeon. And it is certainly likely that there are guilds full of people so BIS-and-Meta equipped/specced that the roles of tank/healer/DPS become superfluous.

However.

The group finder is designed (note: I'm NOT addressing 'working as intended or not') to encourage people to be prepared to attempt to fill one of three roles. There are many players who are equipped and skilled enough to reasonably queue as more than one role - because they can do it.

But to jump into this situation and claim that any random group of 4 "should" somehow magically be able to run a dungeon. No. Not appropriate and not helpful

As for GW2, well if that equips players to "carry their own weight" and you have found that helpful to your success in playing; good for you. that's not what ESO currently encouraged.

Tinus_92

Dakhumn wrote: »

Multiple role chosing shouldn't be exist. Choose your role and play, simple. If u wanna quee as a tank, then play as tank, otherwise its becoming a selfishness and taking time of other players. Who wants to carry selfish players' loads?

Few days ago i played with a guy who choose all roles and playing as healer in that dungeon (vet elden hollow 1). In the middle of dungeon we noticed that the guy not healing. When we asked him, his answer is "do self heal!" Then we kicked him.Well if multiple choosen won't exist, then there will be less problem.

When doing a random normal on my templar I am always signing for all roles. If ending on heal, i'll heal. If ending on dd, I' ll do damage. If ending on tank, I'll slot a taunt, harness magicka and go as tank+dd, able to solo normal dungeons if others don't keep up. While I agree that you should at least do your minimum expections for the role you queed for, there is no reason to block people from multiple role selecting. Many characters are actually able to switch. Even for most veterans.

bhagwad

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Op, do yourself a favor and never play guild wars 2 if you can't hold your own on a vet dungeon.

Played GW2 for over 2 years. Also the original GW for over 2 years. Different games bro. If you transplant a GW2 team into an ESO dungeon, they would get massacred so fast, they wouldn't know what hit them.

JinMori

I would personally judge the player before. If he can do so much DPS that a tank is not needed, then i would keep him. I personally did it sometimes on normal dungeons, but that was becuase i knew that i could solo the dungeon, i never queued as tank on vet dungeons.

VaranisArano

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

If you actually played gw2, You know my point. Point is, in gw2, it's practically impossible to tank in that game. So you're forced to carry your own weight and use your skill to beat a dungeon with your party.

Eso, sure. It's nice to have a tank to take away all the heat. But truth is, if you can pull your own weight, you don't need a tank. The only time tank are really needed, are for Raids. But that's just it. Who gives a crap if the guy a "fake tank." If he can pull his own weight and you have to kick him because "He isn't really tanking." It just shows how pathetic op is, and he shouldn't be playing this game. Bet he's insecure too. Tell me op, do people pick on you in real life because you're that insecure?

To quote Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that word. I do not think that it means what you think it means."

A person queues as a dps/tank. Gets the role of tank. What does it mean to carry their own weight in a dungeon? Spoiler alert: it doesn't mean that they aren't doing enough DPS.

If a person who queues as a tank is not doing the basic job of a tank (keep aggro, taunt boss, and don't die), they are not carrying their own weight as a tank, the role they signed up for. Who cares about their totally amazing DPS? They aren't carrying their weight AS A TANK - which they signed up for!

Simple solution: if your DPS can't also carry your own weight as a tank, don't sign up for the role of a tank. Or, queue manually with a group that agreed to run without a tank. Don't inflict yourself on PUGs in groupfinder.

Gamerscape2007

To all the idiots above me trying to argue with me.

What make you think I gave a *** about the "group finder" system in this game, or anyone else who just wants to do dungeons for that matter? Listen, the Group finder has been garbage, and forever will be garbage. You are giving yourself frustration time using it, and if you somehow finally do get a group. It's the most incompetent group you'll ever find, or get kicked because "Hurr durrr, you don't meet my expectations." Dps, are needed, sure. Healer are needed. However, It doesn't matter how many numbers you can't pump out if you you're too much of a *** to get out of the red circle. And that's what make or break someone in my party. Do they know what they're doing? Or being an incompetent ***. The latter get kicked in my book, not because he's a "Fake tank."

And lets be honest, if you're looking for a competent team, if you really in a need for a tank, join a guild, or do it with a friend. Using group finder is not the way to go, no matter how many times you can tell me otherwise.

Lets add to the fact that pve is VERY Easy. If the constant nerf to vwgt isn't indication enough. This constant [snip] over a "Fake tank." Is moronic lmao. And it make Op a type of person who should get deck in the face. I'd pay for that tbh. Should be more entertaining then arguing with you morons.

paulsimonps

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

Op, do yourself a favor and never play guild wars 2 if you can't hold your own on a vet dungeon.

Well he doesn't have to, this is ESO not GW2. Your comment is really silly.

If you actually played gw2, You know my point. Point is, in gw2, it's practically impossible to tank in that game. So you're forced to carry your own weight and use your skill to beat a dungeon with your party.

Eso, sure. It's nice to have a tank to take away all the heat. But truth is, if you can pull your own weight, you don't need a tank. The only time tank are really needed, are for Raids. But that's just it. Who gives a crap if the guy a "fake tank." If he can pull his own weight and you have to kick him because "He isn't really tanking." It just shows how pathetic op is, and he shouldn't be playing this game. Bet he's insecure too. Tell me op, do people pick on you in real life because you're that insecure?

It still DOES NOT MATTER. The games are not comparable in that way. Its a different gameplay system. Your argument is just weird. This game HAS tanks, so your whole thing with that GW2 doesn't have tanks doesn't mean anything. And yes if people specced for it you can go with 4 DPS's. But that is not what people are expecting when they use the group finder.

Also the last few comments are uncalled for and make you seem like a GIANT A hole. How about you instead of bashing people for wanting to play how the game was designed you go learn a bit more about the game instead of crying about how it was in GW2?

Also I did play GW2, boring as F, gameplay was stale and repetitive no matter how you tried to play, but that is beside the point. The point is, in ESO people that use the group finder are expecting a Tank to perform certain duties, I mean even just the bare minimum of Taunting boss is enough, and when people outright refuse to do so they do deserve to be kicked.

VaranisArano

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

To all the idiots above me trying to argue with me.

What make you think I gave a *** about the "group finder" system in this game, or anyone else who just wants to do dungeons for that matter? Listen, the Group finder has been garbage, and forever will be garbage. You are giving yourself frustration time using it, and if you somehow finally do get a group. It's the most incompetent group you'll ever find, or get kicked because "Hurr durrr, you don't meet my expectations." Dps, are needed, sure. Healer are needed. However, It doesn't matter how many numbers you can't pump out if you you're too much of a *** to get out of the red circle. And that's what make or break someone in my party. Do they know what they're doing? Or being an incompetent ***. The latter get kicked in my book, not because he's a "Fake tank."

And lets be honest, if you're looking for a competent team, if you really in a need for a tank, join a guild, or do it with a friend. Using group finder is not the way to go, no matter how many times you can tell me otherwise.

Lets add to the fact that pve is VERY Easy. If the constant nerf to vwgt isn't indication enough. This constant [snip] over a "Fake tank." Is moronic lmao. And it make Op a type of person who should get deck in the face. I'd pay for that tbh. Should be more entertaining then arguing with you morons.

I'd agree with you about kicking people too incompetent to stay out the red repeatedly, since a dead DPS does no DPS, but a "tank" that doesn't taunt the boss, hold aggro, or dies a lot is just as incompetent at being a tank, since a fake take is not a tank. Therefore, kicked for incompetence at his/her chosen role.

bhagwad

Talking about GW2 and comparing it with ESO is a complete waste of time. There are too many mechanical differences in GW2 that make tanking less important.

Note however, that even in GW2, no one wants to see 4 thieves in a dungeon with 14k health each!

But end of the day, the two games are so different, it's ridiculous to talk about the role of tanks in their respective dungeons.

Larsay

Oh what a vicious circle this always is...

What defines a tank?
What defines a healer?
What defines a DPS?

Seriously. Did you find out if the guy was rocking a taunt and maybe shield stacking for mitigation? Or on the assumption he was not in heavy armor and sword and Board you vote kicked.

The problem is whether I agree with you are not is irrelevant. What is relevant is the minute we start this argument it just gets everyone mad. Especially since as a tank and a real tank, I hate what I feel are "Fake DPS" but eh, I don't kick the poor guy who does not get that Light Attacks are not DPS.... And with there being so many DPS in this game, and so many that feel this style play is DPS, getting in a group with a "fake DPS" is more problematic than a "fake" tank.

No, I suck it up and do the damn dungeon. Why... because that's what the random finder nets. Then when I run with my friends I am thankful that I have friends....

If you don't like running with people like this, just don't use the finder. Find some friends, make life easier on you. Problem solved really.