Fake Tank = Kick - Chat Screenshots

CyborgPlatypus

I've noticed the dps who queue as tanks tend to run on ahead too and expect everyone to keep up. I think it says something about their personality tbh.

They also tend to have terrible self sustain and they tend to somehow miss my healing springs every damn time.

If you want to queue jump as a dps get a healer or tank friend. I often queue on my healer with 2 dps and we get into the dungeon in a few seconds.

lynog85

bhagwad wrote: »

Bhaal5 wrote: »

I hear all these horror storys of "ive waited 45 minutes in the dps que" and similar. Would of stopped waiting after 5 minutes asked my guilds (well only ask one in my case) most cases grouped up in 5-10 minutes

But its hard for group finder to work when you have 100 dps and 2 healers and 2 tanks queing. For that same dungeon

It just goes to show that ZOS thinks a tank's role is critical in a dungeon finder based vet dungeon. Ask anyone who's used the dungeon finder, and they'll tell you that 90% of vet dungeons formed via the dungeon finder NEED a tank.

ZOS has all the data they need to make an informed decision regarding this, so if they still make a tank role mandatory, it means they still think it's necessary. And I agree.

I'm glad asking your guilds works for you. It doesn't work for me.

Ive literally in the past two weeks leveled 2 new toons and gotten undaunted 9 on both using group finder with mostly dps groups formed. No idea why your luck is so bad. Maybe instead of kicking you should give the guys a try first.

Thannazzar

bhagwad wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

Why use a French swear word? Trying to cheat censorship?

OP probably likes the Merovingian way .

This

Agreed it's like wiping your a$$ with silk!

mocap

Imo the best party is:
- whatever DD #1 with selfheals;
- whatever DD #2 with selfheals;
- DD/Healer (Magplar BoL spammer when necessary. No Resto, no Orbs, only BoL);
- Debuf Tank

GrigorijMalahevich

haha, git gud.

What boss in fungal grotto requires a tank?

IlCanis_LupuslI

On my stamina Warden when i do the dailies i quickly modify from PvP dps very easy with the Warden :-D Healing thicket, soothing spoores ftw ;-)

IlCanis_LupuslI

lynog85 wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

lynog85 wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

MaddPowered wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

MaddPowered wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Belyar wrote: »

Most base game vet dungeons can be easily done with 3 DD as long as the healer is good. Sorry but you were the ****** here and not that guy who wanted to have fun and clear the dungeon fast. DLC dungeons are a different story.

Tell that to all the teams that wipe without a tank to hold aggro and keep the box still...

You don't need a tank for most any vet dungeons. You can even get away with doing vDSA with no tank if you have competent players. L2RollDodge

Again, tell that to all the teams that wipe without a tank, and see what they have to say.

I'll tell the teams who wipe without a tank to quit being baddies. Lmao.

And if you had your way, those "baddies" shouldn't be allowed to use the dungeon finder tool right?

If they wipe. They need to have a look at themselves rather than blame the lack of a tank. Bar the odd dungeon. Its much EASIER to do dungeons with all DDs or 3 and a bit of a healer.

So you're saying that if a group needs a tank then it's their fault, is that right?

Im saying if they wipe. They need to learn how to build and play their class correctly and then they will be alot more successfull

And how should they learn when they always have to run dungeons without heals or Tank?? Learn to walk before you try to run...

IlCanis_LupuslI

Runefang wrote: »

bhagwad wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Half the people who queue in the DPS role can't do much damage.

So yeah, they're cheating since they can't fulfill the role they chose?

As long as they're trying to fulfill their role, no one can legitimately call it cheating.

They're certainly wasting my time though, like a fake tank. I'd rather a fake tank instead of a bad DPS, because as many have said, a real tank isn't needed most of the time.

No, not needed... But makes the job of the dps so much easier... And without s Tank 1 dps is nutrelized anyway because hes busy kiting the boss out of everyone's aoes

nnargun

This is what grinds my gears in PUGs in ascending order:

1. A player not knowing any mechanics and not letting the others know about it

2. A DPS queuing as heal

3. A DPS queuing as tank

4. A tank or heal queuing as DPS (whats wrong with you guys?)

Hibiki54

I like how the OP censored only his name and not others.

Flameheart

Dantaria wrote: »

Funny how some people here, while trying to show how "elite" they are, confuse apples and oranges and show that they are anything but elite.

If you can solo vet dungeon, if you don't need tank and healer, you're bad DD. Period.

I can solo vet dungeon. I can finish vMA - as a matter of fact, I comfortably farm vMA. But do I do those things with the same build I use in group content? Hell no.

In group content good DDs are glass cannons with minimal survivability. Actually good DDs do need tank, yes. Sorry, but 35k+ DPS cannot be achieved if third of our skills is for survival and if we are forced to recast our DoTs every 3 secs, because boss moves. Morrowind did a couple of things with our sustain, if you didn't notice.

As a matter of fact, I prefer 3DD + tank, if we talk about premade group. PUG? Both tank and healer, please. I'll solo this **** in terms of DPS, if other DD is bad, no worries, but make it comfortable for me, ok?

If you bring your vMA build to vet group content and gloat about how you can solo whole thing, you're doing it absolutely wrong. If you actually can easily solo whole thing as someone who queued as DD to vet group content, you're doing it wrong.

Just this. If it would be possible I would grant 3 "awesomes" for that.

I may add to that, that I understand a vet pledge not just as "I-want-a-specific-piece-of-loot-thing" or "I-want-my-2-keys-thing" but also as practice for my char/class/role. You can't practice with unusual group setups and gimped builds.

Koensol

Belyar wrote: »

Most base game vet dungeons can be easily done with 3 DD as long as the healer is good. Sorry but you were the ****** here and not that guy who wanted to have fun and clear the dungeon fast. DLC dungeons are a different story.

Ladies and gentlemen. The culprit has been found.

Rex-Umbra

I let it slip for normal but not vet.

AlienSlof

When talking of age, the fake tank's terrible use of English certainly gave away his age - or lack thereof.

I agree with the OP. A bad tank is no tank at all. Cheating the grouping system is pointless as it doesn't grant the cheater a good game either.

tommalmm

The thing is not whether you need a tank/healer for a particular dungeon or not, but whether people expect one. I've soloed half of the vet dungeons (there are people that soloed all or nearly all of them - incl. eg. vWGT), but my solo build is a lot different than my group build. It's more efficient at surviving, less at doing damage. When I use dungeon finder, I expect a full group. Most people do.

Also, tank brings order to the battle. Without tank people tend to run like headless chickens, trying to avoid damage by outrunning the boss, which rarely works anyway, taking boss out of aoe, wasting resources, etc. True, when we do a guild 4xDD runs, everyone just stacks around boss, stays in place, has some selfheals and doesn't give a damn about damage. But we all chose to do that. That's the difference. Not to mention that 3xDD + Tank (or tankheal) runs are in fact faster than 4xDD in many cases.

Blackleopardex

There is no problem doing a vet dungeon with 4 DDs, 1 tank 3 dds, only with 2 people or even solo them, done it all.
However when I use the group finder tool just to run a dungeon with random people I expect everyone to set their actually role and do their actual job. When I see DDs that set their role to tank or heal I get annoyed. It has absolutely nothing to do with that it's not possible to do it whit 3 or 4 dds but when the group is 100% random with random people... I prefer a tank and a healer. If I wanna run a dungeon with 3 or 4 dds I go with my friends not you people that think you can replace the tank in the group finder...

bhagwad

Qbiken wrote: »

I almost want to put you on my ignore list by just reading this.......

First you try, and if it doesn´t work, then you kick/leave the group.

bhagwad wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

On one hand, you really shouldn't queue as a role you're not unless you're in a group with 3 other friends and want to do randoms together as 4 dps.

On the other hand, some vet dungeons really don't require a tank to complete assuming the group members are semi-competent. Fungal Grotto II is one such dungeon.

If it's a random dungeon finder group, we can't assume that people know the mechanics. Like here, I had to explain the mechanics for each and every boss. A tank is absolutely invaluable for those situations! Even Fungar Grotto II. Like keeping the Spawn of Mephala still, and Reggar as well.

A tank brings order to chaos. If you're in a random dungeon finder, we cannot cheat the queue like that!

Then you can´t assume that someone who qued legitimate as a tank knows how to tank.....And FG2 is a bad example, only time you need to move is when she does her big read aoe, otherwise you can stay still the entire fight. The only vet-dungeons I wouldn´t consider doing on vet without a tank are the Shadow of the hist ones, and the new ones that came with Horns of the Reach.

Not knowing how to tank is one thing. Having no intention of tanking, and cheating the queue is another. A bad tank can be corrected. A player who wants to deliberately be a DPS cannot be corrected.

laksikus

Dantaria wrote: »

Funny how some people here, while trying to show how "elite" they are, confuse apples and oranges and show that they are anything but elite.

If you can solo vet dungeon, if you don't need tank and healer, you're bad DD. Period.

I can solo vet dungeon. I can finish vMA - as a matter of fact, I comfortably farm vMA. But do I do those things with the same build I use in group content? Hell no.

In group content good DDs are glass cannons with minimal survivability. Actually good DDs do need tank, yes. Sorry, but 35k+ DPS cannot be achieved if third of our skills is for survival and if we are forced to recast our DoTs every 3 secs, because boss moves. Morrowind did a couple of things with our sustain, if you didn't notice.

As a matter of fact, I prefer 3DD + tank, if we talk about premade group. PUG? Both tank and healer, please. I'll solo this **** in terms of DPS, if other DD is bad, no worries, but make it comfortable for me, ok?

If you bring your vMA build to vet group content and gloat about how you can solo whole thing, you're doing it absolutely wrong. If you actually can easily solo whole thing as someone who queued as DD to vet group content, you're doing it wrong.

how many skills do you need to survive in msa?
seems like its your problem if you need 3+ skills to survive.

I need 1 skill to survive in MSA, and thats harness, same as i slot in every trial and group dungeon as well.
If you need more, thats your problem.


I can bring my MSA build to group dungeons and do 30k+ DPS without any effort.
Could be better, but im using the same build as 3 Patches ago and havent done any minmax latley cos PVE bores me most of the time.

The only things that are different on my MSA and group build is, that im using 1 lightning and 1 inferno, instead of double inferno, and some skills are on the other bar for better rotation

tommalmm

The funny thing is that during prime time (at least on PC/EU) DD queues for vet content are actually quite short (for non DLC dungeons at least). It's usually 3-4 minutes for a vet pledge, and random vet is usually seconds to a minute tops. Normal is quite different (20 minutes plus on average).

Dantaria

laksikus wrote: »

I can bring my MSA build to group dungeons and do 30k+ DPS without any effort.
Could be better, but im using the same build as 3 Patches ago and havent done any minmax latley cos PVE bores me most of the time.

30k+? 30k+?!

Please. If you have vMA weapons, and you should, since you're so good at it, it's effortless 40k+ in group, especially in dungeons where fights are short. 30k+ is for solo single-target without any nice buffs tank and healer provide for you. Actually... It's 35k+, if we're talking seriously.

Boss has waves of adds like 1st boss in Bloodroot Forge? 50k+ or you slack.



And that's my bad parse.

And when I queue for vet dungeon as DD, I actually queue for vet dungeon as DD. Without intention to slack with vMA build

Don't play elitist with me. You won't win

Qbiken

Dantaria wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

I can bring my MSA build to group dungeons and do 30k+ DPS without any effort.
Could be better, but im using the same build as 3 Patches ago and havent done any minmax latley cos PVE bores me most of the time.

30k+? 30k+?!

Please. If you have vMA weapons, and you should, since you're so good at it, it's effortless 40k+ in group, especially in dungeons where fights are short. 30k+ is for solo single-target without any nice buffs tank and healer provide for you. Actually... It's 35k+, if we're talking seriously.

Boss has waves of adds like 1st boss in Bloodroot Forge? 50k+ or you slack.



And that's my bad parse.

And when I queue for vet dungeon as DD, I actually queue for vet dungeon as DD. Without intention to slack with vMA build

Don't play elitist with me. You won't win

When a bad parse on a magsorcs is a good parse on a magplar (At least this patch)......RIP XD

Dubhliam

Queued as tank?

Don't have a taunt?

You get the boot.

If you want to do fast dungeons with 3 or 4 DDs, get some guildies and form a premade group with likeminded people.

Don't bring your *** to group finder just to save time in queue.

DeadlyPhoenix

Please stop knocking dps that que as tanks please, k? Thanks.

I am dps mag sorc and always que as tank. I do run a taunt, but thats all you need. I dont run dlc dungeons except vwgt as this and ive never had any problems on HM with any normal vet dungeon.

98% of the no death run achievements I have gotten this way, so its not dps queing as a tank that is the problem. It's the dps doesnt know how to act like a tank.

Ive never been kicked from a single group for being a fake tank, most are actually greatful to have another high dps mowing targets down quicker, usually I pull more damage than the actual dps.

Really though, as long as they have a taunt on you should be fine. Without taunt its still doable, just pay closer attention.

bhagwad

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Please stop knocking dps that que as tanks please, k? Thanks.

I am dps mag sorc and always que as tank. I do run a taunt, but thats all you need. I dont run dlc dungeons except vwgt as this and ive never had any problems on HM with any normal vet dungeon.

98% of the no death run achievements I have gotten this way, so its not dps queing as a tank that is the problem. It's the dps doesnt know how to act like a tank.

Ive never been kicked from a single group for being a fake tank, most are actually greatful to have another high dps mowing targets down quicker, usually I pull more damage than the actual dps.

Really though, as long as they have a taunt on you should be fine. Without taunt its still doable, just pay closer attention.

If you have a taunt, you're NOT a fake tank. You're a real tank. Of course, you also need to try and hold the boss still inside the AoE DoTs...

laksikus

Dantaria wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

I can bring my MSA build to group dungeons and do 30k+ DPS without any effort.
Could be better, but im using the same build as 3 Patches ago and havent done any minmax latley cos PVE bores me most of the time.

30k+? 30k+?!

Please. If you have vMA weapons, and you should, since you're so good at it, it's effortless 40k+ in group, especially in dungeons where fights are short. 30k+ is for solo single-target without any nice buffs tank and healer provide for you. Actually... It's 35k+, if we're talking seriously.

Boss has waves of adds like 1st boss in Bloodroot Forge? 50k+ or you slack.



And that's my bad parse.

And when I queue for vet dungeon as DD, I actually queue for vet dungeon as DD. Without intention to slack with vMA build

Don't play elitist with me. You won't win

I dont use MSA weapons. Never got infernos with the right trait in 500+ runs.
Damn , huh?

And you show me the fight where high dps for "my *** is the biggest" pics is easiest to do with a good group and only pull 41k there WITH adds? pls cmn
show me a DPS screenshot from a group dungeon with a random healer and Tank without any of those buff uptimes. Cos random healer = no buffs in group dungeons.

Zerok

bhagwad wrote: »

A tank brings order to chaos.

So basically, a tank is a Reaper

Dantaria

laksikus wrote: »

show me a DPS screenshot from a group dungeon with a random healer and Tank without any of those buff uptimes. Cos random healer = no buffs in group dungeons.

Which is exactly the point, isn't it?

People who queue honestly, expecting Healer to be Healer and Tank to be Tank, are stuck with their DD-glass-cannon setups. Forget buffs, okay, #PUGlife. Forget Warhorn, okay, #PUGlife. But good DD will still have 40k+ (yep, 40k+ on trial boss easily equals 40k+ on dungeon withour buffs, because you ultimately just burst him: sustain problems don't apply and ult gives a crazy openning), if Healer heals and Tank taunts and hold boss in one place.

And yes. Good DD can accomodate if there is fake tank or fake healer. But why should he? Why should he lower his efficiency in his role which he worked hard for (and he also honestly waited in queue, don't forget that) for the sake of egoist who chose to disregard other people?

All these "you're just bad", "L2Rolldodge", etc are pure and simple victim blaiming. The transfer of guilt from where it belongs to where it absolutely doesn't apply.

Let's be better than that, shall we?

nnargun

How is this thread 5 pages long? What is there to discuss?

If you are not a tank, don't queue as one. The other group members most likely would prefer a group consisting of 2 DDs, 1 tank, and 1 heal. As intended. Or did they also queue as whatever? So who are you to put your needs above those of the other 3 guys? That's just sociopathic and unfair. Unless you are top notch and able to carry the entire group as a DD you gotta stick to your role. And since I don't know how good you are at the beginng of a dungeon I vote to kick you rigorously. You are wasting my time to save your own.

zaria

bhagwad wrote: »

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Please stop knocking dps that que as tanks please, k? Thanks.

I am dps mag sorc and always que as tank. I do run a taunt, but thats all you need. I dont run dlc dungeons except vwgt as this and ive never had any problems on HM with any normal vet dungeon.

98% of the no death run achievements I have gotten this way, so its not dps queing as a tank that is the problem. It's the dps doesnt know how to act like a tank.

Ive never been kicked from a single group for being a fake tank, most are actually greatful to have another high dps mowing targets down quicker, usually I pull more damage than the actual dps.

Really though, as long as they have a taunt on you should be fine. Without taunt its still doable, just pay closer attention.

If you have a taunt, you're NOT a fake tank. You're a real tank. Of course, you also need to try and hold the boss still inside the AoE DoTs...

This, you do tank function with enough migration to not work healer to death nobody will complain.
its the ones without taunt and no migration who are the problem.
Has even ran into two without food but that was in normal dungeons.

Ertthewolf

So far my wife and I have done all vet dungeons with two werewolves, an argonian nightblade and a heavy armor orc templar healer. No tanks lol. We have a blast trying to do mechanics with a far from perfect set up. This is fine conduct with friends for sure.

But if going for randoms it's different. Especially vet. I can carry a group through any normal dungeon. I even soloed Skoria in vCoA2 on my heavy werewolf build for a struggling guildie stuck in a bad group. But a majority should at least be ready for the role. A tank and healer can carry poor dps.

In the end it's just a game and we should all try and have fun tho right?