Zenimax, Restrict Your API!!!
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don´t really care either way. It´s not like having every frags/will dodged is enjoyable.
@DDuke never had issues with a single snipe user since 2.2 i think. Problem only starts when there´s other players attacking you and the game starts to cut effects/audio of skills bc the priorisation of snipe is poop.
For some reason darkflare never cuts out unless the whole sound stops for me.Edited by Derra on October 3, 2017 5:09PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Here, I made another video for you (and for @Derra who mentioned long distance snipes being hard to hear/avoid earlier):
Now make a video about snipe sounds while you're fighting 5 people:)
Or in the mid of 20v20 fight.
Or any other actual use-case, besides 1v1 in the middle of nowhere.
The game's provides audio-visual cues almost for anything, including attacks from stealth. But most if not all of them are irrelevant and not really noticeable in anything outside of 1v1.
And, btw, there's a reason why pvpalerts are disabled in duels:)5 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I wonder if ZoS is incapable of restricting the sort of information the OP (and most of us) want without gutting stuff they deem necessary for the API to allow.
I personally disable the attack warnings because I want nothing to do with them.
It's entirely possible that it's tied to a number of things, like combat music activation and what not... and that's the reason it hasn't been removed.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but none of these base UI things actually function in PvP - nor do they reveal opponent's cast timer (the cue comes when the cast is complete).
I believe you are correct.1 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
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With my windows10 volume settings on max and I dont hear any single cast in headphones...Here, I made another video for you (and for @Derra who mentioned long distance snipes being hard to hear/avoid earlier):
https://youtu.be/W8XxvXwGFV8
ZOS should make volume much higher, like Barrage.
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Morvane✭✭✭✭
Well, thank you for your advice. But you see, I currently use this addon myself, so I don't really have to "l2p"
I just wanted to know which other games permit 3rd party cheats, so I know which ones to avoid in the future. I don't really care what games you play.
I'm happy you couldn't mention any though, it has boosted my faith in the gaming industry.
Gladius addon for WoW, Omni CC, all AI and Bar improvment addons etc.
And this is cool u use it. Cuz 90% of guys in this theme just crying how bad addon is.
And I dont use it. I just spam crushing shock
Edited by Morvane on October 3, 2017 5:56PMDC Dunmer Sorcerer since 2014
@morvayn54, PC/EU0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I hoped I'd never have to make this thread, but patch after patch these API functions still exist.
This is what addons can do currently (comparison between no addon & addon):
https://youtu.be/zaB-sXFKHdE
An addon should not be able to show opponent's cast timer to you - that makes it impossible to land any cast time ability on target using these kinds of addons and it provides a clear advantage to the player using the addon.
It's not just Snipe (as shown in the video) that suffers from addons like these, but also all other cast/channeled abilities (including heavy attacks).
Enough is enough - remove these API functions ZOS.
That video just infuriated me.....
The majority of people clearly hate this add on, and all add ons resembeling it, why ZoS literally is sitting on their hands right now with this is beyond confusing. If they cracked down on this it would send a clear signal that this stuff, as was stated when the game first came out, would not, and should not be tolerated. Now that we are here though, they backtracked and dont do anything? Honestly if I had enough money, I would try to officially do something about it.8 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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Ganking was an in game mechanic, designed by the developer of the game, there are methods to circumvent ganking in game, available to everyone. This add on completely destroys archer or ranged builds and there is NOTHING you can do to counter it.8 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »FYI, this isn't the only game with those options. Often developers include it for the reason of seeing NPC enemy cast bars to know when to interrupt or dodge or block, especially for the situation where the player has trouble seeing the on screen animation on the enemy.
This is not a cheat nor is it ever going away. You can see the skill animation on the character at the same time anyway. The addon just makes it a little easier.
Sorry, you just got to learn to live with it.
Wrong, those things are only available in other mmos like WoW and SWTOR when you TARGET the person, and they do not show up when they are stealthed. Please stop lying.5 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »
It's not a pvp game. PVP was shoehorned in. They made this an Elder Scrolls world game. It's why they can't get pvp balance right also.
As for the "attack warnings", that's how every auto-aim tab-target-lock game is. You will almost always know when an attack is coming so you can do something about it, which is why cloak doesn't last more than 3 seconds at a time and cost a lot of magicka while sneaking is much less powerful.
This game never had true FPS aiming, which is the only way you can have attacks that are complete surprises, and it never will.
Edit:
Even if they remove addons, the default UI offers "active combat tips" which tell players when to interrupt and block an enemy in range targeting them. It's already there and can be set to always show every time.
Actually open world pvp was the selling point for this game. Hence all the advertisement cinematics. Dont kid yourself, it was not shoehorned.4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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Gladius addon for WoW, Omni CC, all AI and Bar improvment addons etc.
And this is cool u use it. Cuz 90% of guys in this theme just crying how bad addon is.
And I dont use it. I just spam crushing shock
Cool, I'm familiar with WoW, though haven't played it since Vanilla/TBC.
Does Gladius tell you exactly when a rogue is about to use a stealth opener on you, so you can ice block/whatever right in time? No? Figured.
Does it even show cast bars for targets you aren't actually targeting? No? Didn't think so.
Hardly a comparison to make, but thanks for trying.5 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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Cool, I'm familiar with WoW, though haven't played it since Vanilla/TBC.
Does Gladius tell you exactly when a rogue is about to use a stealth opener on you, so you can ice block/whatever right in time? No? Figured.
Does it even show cast bars for targets you aren't actually targeting? No? Didn't think so.
Hardly a comparison to make, but thanks for trying.
Its the same in swtor, if someone goes in stealth and you targeted them before hand you wont know what they are doing, but if you target them and keep them targeted you can see their cast timers, this add on though, lets you see the cast timers of everyone targeting you, which is just bull ***.
THIS is why ZoS should have not been lazy, and should have developed an in game ui designer akin to sWTOR's. That is the one thing they got right, you dont have this nonsense.0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Does Gladius tell you exactly when a rogue is about to use a stealth opener on you, so you can ice block/whatever right in time? No? Figured.
Rogue opener is insta cast:) Can't have notifications for insta casts, because of the nature of insta casts.Does it even show cast bars for targets you aren't actually targeting? No? Didn't think so.
It does:)
Even more in wow there's a concept of focus target (within default ui). You will see all casts of that target and can make binds to, say, interrupt that target. Without ever targeting it.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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Now make a video about snipe sounds while you're fighting 5 people:)
Or in the mid of 20v20 fight.
Or any other actual use-case, besides 1v1 in the middle of nowhere.
The game's provides audio-visual cues almost for anything, including attacks from stealth. But most if not all of them are irrelevant and not really noticeable in anything outside of 1v1.
And, btw, there's a reason why pvpalerts are disabled in duels:)
How is getting Sniped any different than getting Soul Assaulted, Leap'd or Meteor'd in that situation (except that you can still dodge it atleast)?
But I do have some videos where people try to snipe me in a 1vX scenario on my channel I believe - I'm too lazy to go through them. I've never personally had a problem with Snipe.
Also, is the function disabled in duels for your addon alone, or is it impossible due to API restrictions? I don't see anything in the API itself that'd restrict it from functioning in duels. If that is true, then it's still possible for people to abuse the API in duels (just not with your addon).3 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »
It's entirely possible that it's tied to a number of things, like combat music activation and what not... and that's the reason it hasn't been removed.
Tbh If I understand api (at least partially) it is used to offer information and accept information from outside the system. There is literally no reason some inner functionality of ESO should be tied to information obtained from public api. Even if you are super lazy1 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭How is getting Sniped any different than getting Soul Assaulted, Leap'd or Meteor'd in that situation (except that you can still dodge it atleast)?
Because you can see the start of each of those, so you can react?:)But I do have some videos where people try to snipe me in a 1vX scenario on my channel I believe - I'm too lazy to go through them. I've never personally had a problem with Snipe.
If you don't have problems with snipe, with and without the addon, then could you please reiterate the point of this thread?:PAlso, is the function disabled in duels for your addon alone, or is it impossible due to API restrictions? I don't see anything in the API itself that'd restrict it from functioning in duels. If that is true, then it's still possible for people to abuse the API in duels (just not with your addon).
People can 'abuse' whatever they want:) Duels are clear enough, that you don't really benefit from ui addons in them, as you demonstrated in your videos.
I chose to disable it, to reduce saltiness of dueling people:) Less things to blame for losing.2 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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How is getting Sniped any different than getting Soul Assaulted, Leap'd or Meteor'd in that situation (except that you can still dodge it atleast)?
But I do have some videos where people try to snipe me in a 1vX scenario on my channel I believe - I'm too lazy to go through them. I've never personally had a problem with Snipe.
Also, is the function disabled in duels for your addon alone, or is it impossible due to API restrictions? I don't see anything in the API itself that'd restrict it from functioning in duels. If that is true, then it's still possible for people to abuse the API in duels (just not with your addon).
I wonder if someone could make an add on to block miats? They probably could, but wont because heaven forbid someone make something that helps everyone.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Here's a good little tidbit from 2014 (my quick searching have brought up anything more recent regarding design intent for API access/UI giving visual ques):
"Our changes to the API were exclusively about keeping the playing field as level as we could in a competitive environment, not about keeping the game immersive or trying to make sure people could not see numbers. However, it is certainly true we don’t natively add icons to show buffs and display timers. You might ask why?
First, we feel a clean and unobtrusive UI is a key part of The Elder Scrolls Online. We have worked to keep many things off the screen that were not absolutely necessary. As an example, we have broken down buffs and debuffs into a few key effects. If you puncture armor, you can see that overlayed on the health bar of your opponent as a “cracked” graphic. If you or your opponent is powered up, you will see a bright aura around the health bar. If you are suffering from a DOT, you will see arrows representing a decrease overlayed on your health bar. Further, we have animation, sounds, and particle effects in world to give you further clues as to what is happening. We believe these actually represent your state and that of your opponents much more clearly than icons. But why not have icons?
To put it simply, icons are for another game with different controls and a different purpose. The controls of our game naturally tie mouse movement and looking around the world together in a mechanism reminiscent of previous Elder Scrolls games. We don’t have a free mouse where you can get information about what the icons represent by hovering over them in the heat of battle. Also, showing timers through icons isn’t what we wanted. Part of the skill in ESO is situational awareness and seeing when events are happening in the world and in some cases on the UI. Another reason we don’t show buff/debuff icons is that icons appearing and disappearing on the screen looked bad, especially considering ESO has shorter duration debuffs and buffs that would be constantly appearing and disappearing."
The last sentence is interesting, considering the UI interface zos balances the game for had the design intent that they feel sounds+ animations are the intended purpose to tracking your enemy. Anything else, according to Sage, was the opposite of skillful play, and not the intended purpose of the game.
I haven't seen anything recent explaining intent for why a vanilla UI in ESO is important.Edited by Minno on October 3, 2017 7:12PMMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual9 -
Morvane✭✭✭✭
Gladius addon for WoW, Omni CC, all AI and Bar improvment addons etc.
And this is cool u use it. Cuz 90% of guys in this theme just crying how bad addon is.
And I dont use it. I just spam crushing shock
Cool, I'm familiar with WoW, though haven't played it since Vanilla/TBC.
Does Gladius tell you exactly when a rogue is about to use a stealth opener on you, so you can ice block/whatever right in time? No? Figured.
Does it even show cast bars for targets you aren't actually targeting? No? Didn't think so.
Hardly a comparison to make, but thanks for trying.
familiar? Vanilla/TBC is old like your granny, lol. Many things changed and you dont know, just create sarcastic posts with hiden elitism and criticism and u think u are cool? U look like little boy which wanna be the 1st evrywhere, the cleverest etc.
About addons and 24 PvP WoW seasons u missed: answer YES. More: addon show ur opponents cooldowns. Its look like if ESO have ultimate tracking for ur oppnents
and please, I hate your "thanks" I dont need em. Be yourself please, not sales managerEdited by Morvane on October 3, 2017 7:23PMDC Dunmer Sorcerer since 2014
@morvayn54, PC/EU0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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Because you can see the start of each of those, so you can react?:)
You can't see the start of a Leap from stealth/out of your FoV, nor can you see the start of a Soul Assault - it just happens. Same with almost any skill cast from stealth (or out of your FoV): Frags, Dark Flare, Incap, Assassin's Will/Scourge, Surprise Attack etc etc
If you don't have problems with snipe, with and without the addon, then could you please reiterate the point of this thread?:P
Point is I'd like to see atleast the harder to avoid short range snipes viable, since they might be relevant next patch in a certain build.
Hell, I'd love to see longer range snipes viable against decent players, but that'd take some changes from ZOS (e.g. faster travel speed for the projectile).
None of these will ever be viable with the API as it is, as you can see from my video.
People can 'abuse' whatever they want:) Duels are clear enough, that you don't really benefit from ui addons in them, as you demonstrated in your videos.
I chose to disable it, to reduce saltiness of dueling people:) Less things to blame for losing.
As I thought.
Your addon makes zero difference (at the moment) in duels though, because no one is crazy enough to use Snipe there.
Look, we can have differing opinions on whether showing a visual cue for incoming projectiles via addon is fine or not, but at the very least you could accept that showing the cast timer (especially for untargeted/stealthed opponents) goes too far.
Just see my video & put yourself in the position of the player who has slotted Snipe in his/her skill bar.Edited by DDuke on October 3, 2017 7:31PM5 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
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You can't see the start of a Leap from stealth/out of your FoV, nor can you see the start of a Soul Assault - it just happens. Same with almost any skill cast from stealth (or out of your FoV): Frags, Dark Flare, Incap, Assassin's Will/Scourge, Surprise Attack etc etc
Point is I'd like to see atleast the harder to avoid short range snipes viable, since they might be relevant next patch in a certain build.
Hell, I'd love to see longer range snipes viable against decent players, but that'd take some changes from ZOS (e.g. faster travel speed for the projectile).
None of these will ever be viable with the API as it is, as you can see from my video.
As I thought.
Your addon makes zero difference (at the moment) in duels though, because no one is crazy enough to use Snipe there.
Look, we can have differing opinions on whether showing a visual cue for incoming projectiles via addon is fine or not, but at the very least you could accept that showing the cast timer (especially for untargeted/stealthed opponents) goes too far.
Just see my video & put yourself in the position of the player who has slotted Snipe in his/her skill bar.
Using the API to show visual cast times was not intended for the game as per Sage. They may have added debuffs/buffs later, but ESO was created to utilize the animation/audio cues, and some UI features, to promote skillful play through situation awareness.
It's definitely up to debate. But that design intent is clear as day.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual4 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭You can't see the start of a Leap from stealth/out of your FoV
And that's a problem, given the effectiveness a leap can have.
I'd added it to notifications if it was possible.
But otherwise you can see the start of the leap and react (or try to react) accordingly., nor can you see the start of a Soul Assault - it just happens.
That's exactly where the start is:) And that's why there's no need to have a separate notification for it. It's clear enough as it is.Same with almost any skill cast from stealth (or out of your FoV): Frags, Dark Flare, Incap, Assassin's Will/Scourge, Surprise Attack etc etc
And that's why all of them have the notifications:)Point is I'd like to see atleast the harder to avoid short range snipes viable, since they might be relevant next patch in a certain build.
Hell, I'd love to see longer range snipes viable against decent players, but that'd take some changes from ZOS (e.g. faster travel speed for the projectile).
But why would you want to improve a spammable that crits up to 40% max hp on med armor and stuns to be even more effective?
We can double the damage of SA and see how it feels:) It's dodgeable as well, but at least it's a melee skill.Your addon makes zero difference (at the moment) in duels though, because no one is crazy enough to use Snipe there.
Because the addon is disabled. And because snipe never was a dueling skill. Snipe always was a zerg/xv1/ganker skill. Its awkwardness is offset by its benefits.Look, we can have differing opinions on whether showing a visual cue for incoming projectiles via addon is fine or not, but at the very least you could accept that showing the cast timer (especially for untargeted/stealthed opponents) goes too far.
In my mind it doesn't. At all.
What goes too far is that starting channeling skills doesn't take the caster out of stealth. And lack of at least audio cues for the channels themselves.
While we don't have that my addon will cover for those design shortcomings:)Edited by Dorrino on October 3, 2017 7:43PM2 -
Mickey_Ox✭✭✭✭#ConsoleMasterRace
Ever Tried, Ever Failed,
No Matter.
Try again, Fail again,
Fail Better3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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familiar? Vanilla/TBC is old like your granny, lol. Many things changed and you dont know, just create sarcastic posts with hiden elitism and criticism and u think u are cool? U look like little boy which wanna be the 1st evrywhere, the cleverest etc.
About addons and 24 PvP WoW seasons u missed: answer YES. More: addon show ur opponents cooldowns. Its look like if ESO have ultimate tracking for ur oppnents
and please, I hate your "thanks" I dont need em. Be yourself please, not sales manager
Well thanks, good to know you know me so well
You can actually count your opponents cooldowns in your head, so I don't see anything wrong with that.
What you can't determine is what your opponent is doing while stealthed, and this I doubt is something Gladius (or any other addon) offers - afaik there aren't even rogue/druid stealth abilities with cast time.
In any case, you're comparing two completely different games with each other - WoW does have cooldowns after all - it's not like you can dodge/avoid every skill your opponent uses.
Oh, and you can actually "track" your opponent's ultimate if you know how to count, not that it really matters in a game like ESO.
I think it should also be possible to see it through an addon, there's multiple lines in the API regarding ultimates (maybe @Dorrino can confirm/deny).2 -
Morvane✭✭✭✭
Well thanks, good to know you know me so well
You can actually count your opponents cooldowns in your head, so I don't see anything wrong with that.
What you can't determine is what your opponent is doing while stealthed, and this I doubt is something Gladius (or any other addon) offers - afaik there aren't even rogue/druid stealth abilities with cast time.
In any case, you're comparing two completely different games with each other - WoW does have cooldowns after all - it's not like you can dodge/avoid every skill your opponent uses.
Oh, and you can actually "track" your opponent's ultimate if you know how to count, not that it really matters in a game like ESO.
I think it should also be possible to see it through an addon, there's multiple lines in the API regarding ultimates (maybe @Dorrino can confirm/deny).
completely different? Are u sure? TESO stealed even item qulity grades from WoW.
In my opinion ESO is a better version of WoW if compare em as MMO games
but if u think they are totally different and dont count that they have 10 years between
I thibk u are just biasedDC Dunmer Sorcerer since 2014
@morvayn54, PC/EU0 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cool, but why do you run deep fissure on a stam build xd
You did notice that said "clannfear" in front, right? It's the skill the clannfear pet uses.
Edit:
Maybe I'm wrong. See below.Edited by Mystrius_Archaion on October 3, 2017 8:13PM0 -
Hempyre✭✭✭✭
I think the point of the thread is that it shouldn't be allowed, and I agree. People should continue making threads until the api is changed in such a way that the addon no longer functions as it currently does.
That's the point of all the other threads...
But please continue to add nothing original whatsoever.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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And that's a problem, given the effectiveness a leap can have.
I'd added it to notifications if it was possible.
But otherwise you can see the start of the leap and react (or try to react) accordingly.
That's exactly where the start is:) And that's why there's no need to have a separate notification for it. It's clear enough as it is.
And that's why all of them have the notifications:)
But why would you want to improve a spammable that crits up to 40% max hp on med armor and stuns to be even more effective?
We can double the damage of SA and see how it feels:) It's dodgeable as well, but at least it's a melee skill.
Because the addon is disabled. And because snipe never was a dueling skill. Snipe always was a zerg/xv1/ganker skill. Its awkwardness is offset by its benefits.
In my mind it doesn't. At all.
What goes too far is that starting channeling skills doesn't take the caster out of stealth. And lack of at least audio cues for the channels themselves.
While we don't have that my addon will cover for those design shortcomings:)
So what, should ZOS just remove/make instant cast all abilities with a cast time from the game because your addon & the game's API makes them irrelevant? How is that good for the game?
Besides, the damage from stealth is exactly the same these days as it is from out of stealth so don't use that as an excuse. It's often even a downside to cast it from sneak as it stuns the target giving free CC immunity on the very first skill you land.
You really should try to see this from the other perspective - I know you like your addon and are hell-bent on defending it, but the current API is actually harming the game rather than making it better.7 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »
You did notice that said "clannfear" in front, right? It's the skill the clannfear pet uses.
Is that Clannfear also using a Charged Weapon & Crit Rush->Reverse Slicing people?
It's the mob he attacked I'm quite sure.0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
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So what, should ZOS just remove/make instant cast all abilities with a cast time from the game because your addon & the game's API makes them irrelevant? How is that good for the game?
Besides, the damage from stealth is exactly the same these days as it is from out of stealth so don't use that as an excuse. It's often even a downside to cast it from sneak as it stuns the target giving free CC immunity on the very first skill you land.
You really should try to see this from the other perspective - I know you like your addon and are hell-bent on defending it, but the current API is actually harming the game rather than making it better.
You can't project your morality into Miat . He is just a code writing machine . You would have more luck arguing with Skynet to spare the human race .
Direct all these concerns to ZoS . They are a slightly more caring Skynet .6
This discussion has been closed.