PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Transmutation

Robby94

Seeing as some content is harder to complete or takes more time i feel like that content should reward more crystals, for example vet trials should reward from 10-20 crystals, hm dungeons 5, dlc hm dungeons 5-10, v arenas 4, v dungeons 2 and normal 1 crystal.
Also since transmutation is crafting related id like to receive crystals from writs. it makes more sense to me.

SquareSausage

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit is a little puzzled.

Why would something so related to crafting yes, with a requirement indeed to have researched the trait, be obtainable in the manner furthest from crafting?

And then bound too.

And indeed you would need to craft your little paws off to get enough of the vouchers to buy your very own transmutation station.

So why not also make them an occasional drop from top tier crafting writs - at about the same rate maybe as glass motif pages maybe?

Having them drop from dangerous dungeons seems as logical to this one as receiving a monster shaped hat from brewing a batch of Markarth Mead.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Well that's silly asking that question isnt it?

Imagine it as a precious resource. Say ivory. To get ivory you must kill a creature. Ivory does not come from making cotton shoes.
However, It could be added as a reward from a writ yes, but I think there is already enough incentive to do writs.

paulsimonps

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Additionally, you also have a chance at obtaining Crystals from these sources:

• Completing additional random Veteran dungeons through the Grouping Tool
• Final bosses from Normal and Veteran dungeons
• Rewards for the Worthy

rhapsodious wrote: »

Integral1900 wrote: »

40 crystals!!!

So I need to run 40 vet pledges for one change!!!

That's insane! Some of us have jobs and families, god almighty it might take me a year to get to 40!

What am I supposed to do? Because if it's a choice between my daughters and my soul mate on one side and eso on the other, well, I'm sorry but no way in hell!!!

With a good group, non-DLC pledges should take less than an hour for both...

Plus the chance of a boss drop, plus the random dungeon crystal, plus the fact that geodes that contain multiple will be a thing...

40 I think is the sweet spot between "why bother farming" and "excessive grinding".

Yea when people asked about a token system and I remember talking in my guild about it and I actually used the number 40 I said "Would you do 40 vMSA if you KNEW you would get what you wanted after that" And everyone said yes. Now obviously you still need to get the right type of weapons first but this is at least something. With the pledges and first random being 100% and when doing those pledges and the random you have a chance for a second one from the last boss, I don't think it will be that bad. And you can do the pledges on multiple toons. Think its gonna be just fine.

Asardes

The system seems way too grind burdened to me. Drop rate should be increased:
- the number of crystals from doing pledges should be equal to the number of keys
- the drop probability from instanced content end boss/chest should be tied to the difficulty as well; reasonable drop rates would be 10% for normal 50% for veteran and 100% for hard mode dungeons, 20% for normal, 100% for veteran and 2x for hard mode trials.
- vMA and vDSA should also give 2x

This way you can get enough crystals to re-trait an item within about 5 days of doing all 3 pledges on HM.

Or leave the drop rate as it is and decrease the number needed.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Just pasting this here for anyone that missed it a few pages ago:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The new Transmutation system is intended as a way to assist you in obtaining the trait you desire for your gear as you play, but not be the primary way to obtain it. You'll obtain Transmutation Crystals as you play the content you're already participating in, but it isn't meant to be something you get immediately. We want you to feel like you have a way to eventually get the trait you want.

As for the current drop rates (which are subject to change since we're on the PTS), you're guaranteed to receive Crystal(s) from the following sources:

• Veteran Undaunted Pledge
• Your first completed random Veteran dungeon through the Grouping Tool per day
• Trial Weekly Quests
• Leaderboards (AvA, Trials, Arenas, and Battlegrounds)
• End of Campaign Rewards (both 7-day and 30-day)
• Veteran Maelstrom Arena
• Veteran Dragonstar Arena

Additionally, you also have a chance at obtaining Crystals from these sources:

• Completing additional random Veteran dungeons through the Grouping Tool
• Final bosses from Normal and Veteran dungeons
• Rewards for the Worthy

Hope this helps clarify how this system works. Again, remember that we've only been on the PTS with this system for less than 24 hours, so we may further tweak everything before it goes live. Thanks for all the feedback thus far, and keep it coming!

The_Auror

It sounds like there is a lot of confusion as to what this system is meant to accomplish. Like Gina said, this was not intended to completely remove the grind for obtaining good gear, but instead to give us a guaranteed finish line. This wasn't meant to grant a full BiS gear set in a couple of days. This is for those extremely tough to get well-traited items, namely weapons and maybe monster shoulders.

I won't make many friends saying this, but the very best gear should be earned. I think a guaranteed crystal for a vet pledge completion is fair, though I wouldn't be against HM dropping two, particularly in the DLC dungeons (and trials HM of course).

I would also like to give some positive feedback to the developers, this is a most welcome change and I am very pleased with the current implementation. I'm more excited about this addition than maybe any other in the game so far. I think I remember seeing the odds of getting a perfectly traited dungeon/trial weapon drop was less than 1/600. This is now capped at around 40, which is very close to the amount of runs it takes me to get 5 perfectly traited armor pieces. I just don't see how this isn't miles better than before.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

All I can find is the word "chance" in relation to the % chance of getting a crystal at the completion of a vet dungeon.. (Not including the 100% guaranteed ones).

Did @ZOS_GinaBruno say a number, % or anything? Or are we meant to just be cool with "chance" which could be between 0.01% chance per run to 99.99% chance...

Just want to find out this..

Edit: This is exactly what zos does when the drop rate is miserable.. They keep tight lipped and dodge questions..

Qizax

[quote=".. Or are we meant to just be cool with "chance" which could be between 0.01% chance per run to 99.99% chance... [/quote]

Be cool with "chance". To ask for a hard percentage drop rate would be rather a big ask. Next time I go to Vegas I am going to ask the Croupier sarcastically what my odds are before I even PLAY.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

Qizax wrote: »

[quote=".. Or are we meant to just be cool with "chance" which could be between 0.01% chance per run to 99.99% chance...

Be cool with "chance". To ask for a hard percentage drop rate would be rather a big ask. Next time I go to Vegas I am going to ask the Croupier sarcastically what my odds are before I even PLAY.
[/quote]

In most/all casion games you can actually figure out the %. Based on cards left and pure maths.

This is a game with a drop table. They could easily say the %.

No I am not cool with "chance" as a reply from them.. No one should be.

crobarXIII

lpfan678 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno can you give the reasoning behind the crystal cap?

Something tells me they don't want us to be able to retrait all our gear at once when they make changes to traits that end up changing the meta.

Starshadw

paulsimonps wrote: »

Yea when people asked about a token system and I remember talking in my guild about it and I actually used the number 40 I said "Would you do 40 vMSA if you KNEW you would get what you wanted after that" And everyone said yes. Now obviously you still need to get the right type of weapons first but this is at least something. With the pledges and first random being 100% and when doing those pledges and the random you have a chance for a second one from the last boss, I don't think it will be that bad. And you can do the pledges on multiple toons. Think its gonna be just fine.

I've often stated I prefer token systems to RNG with regards to slowing progression/item obtaining. RNG is a "punish/luck/negative" system, tokens are a "reward/work/positive" system.

BrightOblivion

To be honest, considering Gina's post and her answer regarding it being a drop from all vet pledges, I'm mostly content. The cap still seems rather questionable, especially if it's only 100 for non-ESO+ members, but it's still a nice change that will help me work my way through improving my "government work" pile (items whose traits are close enough for government work).

Assuming one crystal for each vet pledge (maybe 2 for hard mode?), that's 2 (or 4?) a day if you don't do the vet dlc dungeon. Maybe some days you do a random vet and don't get a dlc dungeon there, and that's another. If you do the normal Craglorn trials each week, that's another 3 a week. Throw in any crystals you get from final bosses. Maybe you're in a 7 day pvp campaign. They do start to add up.

Looking at what I normally do, I'll potentially get a new retrait opportunity every 2 weeks or so. Which, I'll admit, is kind of a long time, but I think I can make it work. It's certainly considerably better than "occasionally."

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

BrightOblivion wrote: »

To be honest, considering Gina's post and her answer regarding it being a drop from all vet pledges, I'm mostly content. The cap still seems rather questionable, especially if it's only 100 for non-ESO+ members, but it's still a nice change that will help me work my way through improving my "government work" pile (items whose traits are close enough for government work).

Assuming one crystal for each vet pledge (maybe 2 for hard mode?), that's 2 (or 4?) a day if you don't do the vet dlc dungeon. Maybe some days you do a random vet and don't get a dlc dungeon there, and that's another. If you do the normal Craglorn trials each week, that's another 3 a week. Throw in any crystals you get from final bosses. Maybe you're in a 7 day pvp campaign. They do start to add up.

Looking at what I normally do, I'll potentially get a new retrait opportunity every 2 weeks or so. Which, I'll admit, is kind of a long time, but I think I can make it work. It's certainly considerably better than "occasionally."

after pledges and ONE vet dungeon they go to "chance" not every vet..

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

My problem with the cap is that eventually, players who don't transmute items frequently enough will hit the crystal cap, and then further collection of crystals from veteran content gets wasted. I don't see the logic in punishing players who can save up to use their crystals for a rainy day. I guess the theory behind it is that you don't want a small handful of players retraiting all their gear to BiS traits when another patch comes out down the road and changes what the traits do again, but again, what's the point? So they save up longer, and so they're a few days (or maybe a week or two) ahead of the general public when it comes to having the most desirably traited gear. So what? Give it to them, I'd say they earned it by not giving into the temptation to use their crystals on something else. There should be no cap. Collect as many crystals as you can, and use them when you want.

CavalryPK

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Transmutation. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Were you able to easily find the Transmutation Station?
• Did you successfully obtain the new currency, Transmutation Crystals?
• Was the interface easy to understand when transmutating a piece of equipment?
• Was it clear that you needed to have your target trait researched?
• Did you purchase a Transmutation Station from the Master Writ Merchant to put in your home?
• Was it clear when an item had been successfully transmutated?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

• Were you able to easily find the Transmutation Station? YES
• Did you successfully obtain the new currency, Transmutation Crystals? NO, every new toon I created had 0/100 trans crystals
• Was the interface easy to understand when transmutating a piece of equipment? Yes
• Was it clear that you needed to have your target trait researched? YEs
• Did you purchase a Transmutation Station from the Master Writ Merchant to put in your home? NO, used the one in DLC zone
• Was it clear when an item had been successfully transmutated? Was not able to transmut since I had no stones, after creating several PTS TOONS
• Do you have any other general feedback? How come my PTS toons come with 1 billion gold and telvar but no trans crystals?

Apherius

SanTii.92 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Bel_Shezzar wrote: »

The Transmute Crystal is an account-wide currency, and can be used by any character on your account. If your crafting character is not the same as the one with a piece of equipment you wish to transmute, you can transfer the item to them, change the trait, and pass it back through your bank.

@Bel_Shezzar

How can it be transferred if it's not bank-able. Sorry not downloading PTS this time around.

This is how it looks like

Account wide but not bankable, like crwons and crowns gems.

159/200 ?! how do you get so much transmute crystal , my template have none.

and why did i only have a limit of 100 transmute crystal ?

NBrookus

For Rewards of the Worthy (30 day, purple), I got a geode with 40 crystals. That'll handle one itme; seems reasonable.

Only being able to store a max of 200 is unpleasant, however, since I also can't do anything with the geodes except have them take up inventory space until I need them.

MopeyHat

For how stingy you are with giving them out, why is there a cap? Why are they not bankable?

Hard to acquire is fine. But punishing people for not using them? And punishing for playing on different characters? Kinda weird.

Honestly they should be tradable too...

Tyrobag

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The new Transmutation system is intended as a way to assist you in obtaining the trait you desire for your gear as you play, but not be the primary way to obtain it. You'll obtain Transmutation Crystals as you play the content you're already participating in, but it isn't meant to be something you get immediately. We want you to feel like you have a way to eventually get the trait you want.

As for the current drop rates (which are subject to change since we're on the PTS), you're guaranteed to receive Crystal(s) from the following sources:

• Veteran Undaunted Pledge
• Your first completed random Veteran dungeon through the Grouping Tool per day
• Trial Weekly Quests
• Leaderboards (AvA, Trials, Arenas, and Battlegrounds)
• End of Campaign Rewards (both 7-day and 30-day)
• Veteran Maelstrom Arena
• Veteran Dragonstar Arena

Additionally, you also have a chance at obtaining Crystals from these sources:

• Completing additional random Veteran dungeons through the Grouping Tool
• Final bosses from Normal and Veteran dungeons
• Rewards for the Worthy

Hope this helps clarify how this system works. Again, remember that we've only been on the PTS with this system for less than 24 hours, so we may further tweak everything before it goes live. Thanks for all the feedback thus far, and keep it coming!

This is still very few drop chances, and a completely insane number of required stones. This system doesn't feel good, or even remotely beneficial. Now the choice is: 1. to grind the dungeon that has the item you want until you want to kill yourself or 2. grind the dungeon that has the item you want until you get a crap trait version, then grind random vet dungeons until you want to kill yourself. Neither situation ends well for the player. When one implements a quality of life improvement, it should actually improve the quality of life.

40 stones is about 4x too much. When people were excited about this before, it was because you made it sound like it was 1 stone to change 1 trait (which makes sense, it only costs 1 trait stone to craft a trait). People thought you were trying to fix the massive mindless grind for traits (aka, the absolute worst part of the game). Instead now we have this massive disappointment.

zassasaurus

Over all transmutation station was easy to find and use, so no issues there. I feel like something needs to change, you capped the amount we can get daily (guaranteed drops anyway) AND capped the number we can have at once AND made them not tradeable AND made it cost 40 stones to change one item, one of these things needa to change. Make it cost less so we can change more than 5 items from what we have saved up. OR increase the cap to 500 or something. OR increase the drop rate so it's easier to get back up to the 200 cap. OR make them tradeable so people can sell them, with the cap on how many you can have at once this would mean the market wouldn't be flooded with them, but people who don't need them can actually make some use of them. Just make ONE of these changes and it will make the system a little easier without being too simple, I know it's sill mentality to be kinda difficult but it's just a little too hard at the moment.

I also feel like the drop rate should reflect difficulty of the content, like vMA and vDSA and vhm trials should drop 5 crystals, vet trials should drop 4, HM pledges 2 and regular vet pledges 1 or something like that, kind of stupid to get the same amount from a vet pledge as you do from vMA....

I really feel like you needed to explain this better, the information in the patch notes was severely lacking, you have provided some clarification in this thread, but I still have so many questions, like wtf is a transmutation geode??? You mention it in the patch notes but don't actually say what it is.... I gather it's some kind of container which you open to get crystals? Is it guaranteed to get one crystal? Can you get multiple? Do you have to do the HM (2 key) pledge to get the crystals?

Synapsis123

How many drop at once off each piece of content? IF i have to do 40 undaunted pledges to do one transmute then the system feels worthless. If I get 10 per undaunted pledge then it's not that bad.

Juhasow

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just pasting this here for anyone that missed it a few pages ago:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The new Transmutation system is intended as a way to assist you in obtaining the trait you desire for your gear as you play, but not be the primary way to obtain it. You'll obtain Transmutation Crystals as you play the content you're already participating in, but it isn't meant to be something you get immediately. We want you to feel like you have a way to eventually get the trait you want.

As for the current drop rates (which are subject to change since we're on the PTS), you're guaranteed to receive Crystal(s) from the following sources:

• Veteran Undaunted Pledge
• Your first completed random Veteran dungeon through the Grouping Tool per day
• Trial Weekly Quests
• Leaderboards (AvA, Trials, Arenas, and Battlegrounds)
• End of Campaign Rewards (both 7-day and 30-day)
• Veteran Maelstrom Arena
• Veteran Dragonstar Arena

Additionally, you also have a chance at obtaining Crystals from these sources:

• Completing additional random Veteran dungeons through the Grouping Tool
• Final bosses from Normal and Veteran dungeons
• Rewards for the Worthy

Hope this helps clarify how this system works. Again, remember that we've only been on the PTS with this system for less than 24 hours, so we may further tweak everything before it goes live. Thanks for all the feedback thus far, and keep it coming!

About Dragonstar and Malestorm arena will we get crystals from final bosses chests or as quests rewards for completing it ?


Or maybe from each chest after each stage ?

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

Synapsis123 wrote: »

How many drop at once off each piece of content? IF i have to do 40 undaunted pledges to do one transmute then the system feels worthless. If I get 10 per undaunted pledge then it's not that bad.

The fact they wont answer the % chance by number/maths and instead said "chance" is a bad sign for you haha.

I said on my youtube channel way before they gave us more information and all we had was "we will allow re-traiting" that it would be a killer grind..

Hope I am wrong.

NyassaV

• Were you able to easily find the Transmutation Station? Yes

• Did you successfully obtain the new currency, Transmutation Crystals? I had none in the templates I made

• Was the interface easy to understand when transmutating a piece of equipment? Yes

• ]Was it clear that you needed to have your target trait researched? Yes

• Did you purchase a Transmutation Station from the Master Writ Merchant to put in your home? ]No, I used the one in the fortress

• Was it clear when an item had been successfully transmutated? ]Wasn't able too without the stones

• Do you have any other general feedback? 40 is far to many, please lower this amount down to 10 or as much as 20, the point is to eliminate grinding like a mad person and to just grind like a sane person. At this rate I'm going to hate myself and this game. If it's just 10 I can comfortable grind with an end in sight.

Taleof2Cities

@Hollery, the point is to reduce the grind ... not replace running content for the weapons and gear that you need.

NyassaV

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

@Hollery, the point is to reduce the grind ... not replace running content for the weapons and gear that you need.

And a good way reduce the grind is to reduce grinding out cyrstals *sassy voice* But honeslty it's a bit much, I don't mind working a bit but if I can't grind 1 piece of gear out in 6 hours or so there is a problem

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

Were you able to easily find the Transmutation Station? Yes
Did you successfully obtain the new currency, Transmutation Crystals? Not going to farm it if zos wont even tell us a round about %..
Was the interface easy to understand when transmutating a piece of equipment? Yes
Was it clear that you needed to have your target trait researched? Yes
Did you purchase a Transmutation Station from the Master Writ Merchant to put in your home? No
Was it clear when an item had been successfully transmutated? Yes
Do you have any other general feedback? The drop rates appear to be incredibly low (even if you get 1 per vet dungeon guaranteed even after dailies). At this point I am bothered more by the employees at zos not just being open with us and telling us the drop rate of crystals at last boss vet dungeons (AFTER daily guaranteed crystals have been obtained)..

Just come out and tell us already.. is the drop rate like 75%,50%,25%,10%,0.72% like vma...? Just tell us.. we all know they will be in the crown store.. we all know it will be rare in game so just pull the band-aid off and tell us so we can figure out the time in which we will need to farm...

At this rate if they are GUARANTEED after ever vet dungeon EVEN after you get the 3 from pledges and 1 from random vet run it will still take us like 20-40 hours a wep (if you are decent and dont run into issues with groups, people etc).

So please stop purposely not telling us.. rip off the band-aid already...

StopDropAndBear

Transmutation crystals are rare and should not be used frivolously

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

Recently we've removed a few posts for getting more personal than needed. Keep in mind that this is a place for feedback regarding the new Transmutation system, please refrain from getting into heated arguments with each other over differing opinions. Keep in mind that flaming is against the Forum Rules, as it does nothing to help a discussion. For further posts please be sure to stay on topic and respectful towards your fellow community members, regardless of where they stand on the matter.

Thank you for understanding.

Avran_Sylt

Were you able to easily find the Transmutation Station?
Yep
Did you successfully obtain the new currency, Transmutation Crystals?
Yep
Was the interface easy to understand when transmutating a piece of equipment?
Yep
Was it clear that you needed to have your target trait researched?
Yep
Did you purchase a Transmutation Station from the Master Writ Merchant to put in your home?
Nope
Was it clear when an item had been successfully transmutated?
Yep
Do you have any other general feedback?

Yeah. Its about the transmutation system in general. I like the idea itself, but I do hope that it gets implemented a bit differently in the future.

Currently its implemented in such a way that it assumes that everyone is looking for one particular trait for something. Which is reasonable, there is not that much trait variation when it comes to armor. Weapons has improved a bit, but armor still has very rigid options when it comes to usefulness in certain roles. Divines/Infused = DPS/Healing, Sturdy/Reinforced = Tank, Impen/Invigorating = PvP. Now, I want to point out that these traits themselves are really only useful for flat stat bonus increases.

Ultimately I hope to someday see Armor Traits offering more utility than flat stat boosts, such as things like Well-Fitted/Sturdy and the like. Such that these things can be experimented upon to influence builds more than just: my basic numbers are bigger.

Once that day comes, I hope to see Transmutation evolve into a system that will allow players a way to experiment with traits by allowing increased access to crystals. Not just a way to get a single trait that will remain permanently. Hell, to a point that a player might stockpile these crystals to swap traits for their favorite set of armor if they change to a different playstyle for a while.

Part of me just feels that this system currently is... unfinished.