PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Transmutation

SirCritical

I couldn't find anywhere, that's why asking: what's the difference between Transmutation Crystals and Tr. Geodes?

Xsorus

The reason for the cap is simple, It keeps you doing content. If they didn't have the cap you would just amass a crap ton of them and eventually never both doing content again.

SirCritical

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

It sounds to me like they exist on your account like crowns, which also can't be banked or traded, but as long as you earn them on one character, your other characters will have access to them (again, like crowns). It doesn't make sense to limit the availability of stones just to those characters who run the veteran content, as many players have dedicated crafters who don't run veteran content.

This.

I have well over 2,000 hours up in this game and I've never run a veteran dungeon. I have put a year of real time into getting my characters' crafting up to scratch and I want transmogrification and transmutation more than anything. The idea that transmutation crystals will only be available in one and only one way, a way that I don't use, horrifies me. It's short-sighted and wrong in every way.

Asking without any intention of hurting you, just really curious: if you haven't (and possibly won't ever) run any vet dungeons (and I think neither vet trials), why do you really need optimal traits on your gear? OK, maybe for vMA or PvP, while I think you're mostly interested in crafting and business. Well, you can't even make money from transmutation. Then why is this really that important for you?

Again: no intention here to hurt you, just curious.

altemriel

40 crystals for one re-trait is pretty much

what is the drop rate?

(fortunatelly they are account-wide)

Feanor

@altemriel

Because you have access to it on any character, just like CP or crowns. Reading some of the posts above might have been good.

altemriel

Feanor wrote: »

@altemriel

Because you have access to it on any character, just like CP or crowns. Reading some of the posts above might have been good.

yes yes, my mistake, I did not read the whole tread before posting it. good so .

(I edited my post then)

d8rmir

Can anyone quantify the amount of work required to collect 40 stones?

Mystrius_Archaion

Anhedonie wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Transmutation icon next to a weapon is going to bug the hell out of my OCD, guys.
I would REALLY appreciate if you could get rid of that icon.

That's not the transmutation icon. That's to tell you if you researched the trait of that item, if it's vendor fodder trait ornate, if it's decon fodder trait intricate or if you transmuted the trait.
I don't know why they need to tell if we transmuted the trait though. It would still be researchable by my alts and no need for the main character to know it was changed.

So the same thing I said? I don't really need to know if that item was transmuted.

I thought you were against all the indicators. So yeah, same thing you said if you just wanted the odd one out removed.

Mystrius_Archaion

SirCritical wrote: »

I couldn't find anywhere, that's why asking: what's the difference between Transmutation Crystals and Tr. Geodes?

I think the geodes contain the crystals, like a loot-box.

Mystrius_Archaion

d8rmir wrote: »

Can anyone quantify the amount of work required to collect 40 stones?

However long it takes you to beat the end boss of a veteran dungeon or veteran trial or reach the end of a pvp match(possibly only winning team). Don't even think about Cyrodiil campaign length.

DPShiro

Not everyone should get BiS traits by just doing a dungeon or two.
It should require effort and only be used on special things, not your entire inventory.
It should be 100 to change a trait imo

Mystrius_Archaion

SirCritical wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

It sounds to me like they exist on your account like crowns, which also can't be banked or traded, but as long as you earn them on one character, your other characters will have access to them (again, like crowns). It doesn't make sense to limit the availability of stones just to those characters who run the veteran content, as many players have dedicated crafters who don't run veteran content.

This.

I have well over 2,000 hours up in this game and I've never run a veteran dungeon. I have put a year of real time into getting my characters' crafting up to scratch and I want transmogrification and transmutation more than anything. The idea that transmutation crystals will only be available in one and only one way, a way that I don't use, horrifies me. It's short-sighted and wrong in every way.

Asking without any intention of hurting you, just really curious: if you haven't (and possibly won't ever) run any vet dungeons (and I think neither vet trials), why do you really need optimal traits on your gear? OK, maybe for vMA or PvP, while I think you're mostly interested in crafting and business. Well, you can't even make money from transmutation. Then why is this really that important for you?

Again: no intention here to hurt you, just curious.

That's an easy answer, because we want the traits we want.
It just so happens that all those traits also make normal content easier, and anything solo. Maybe we also enjoy soloing world bosses and public dungeons for a real attainable challenge rather than "challenging ourselves to endure the queue times".

clocksstoppe

DPShiro wrote: »

It should require effort

No, it shouldn't require too much effort, it's a video game pal.

TheRealPotoroo

SirCritical wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

It sounds to me like they exist on your account like crowns, which also can't be banked or traded, but as long as you earn them on one character, your other characters will have access to them (again, like crowns). It doesn't make sense to limit the availability of stones just to those characters who run the veteran content, as many players have dedicated crafters who don't run veteran content.

This.

I have well over 2,000 hours up in this game and I've never run a veteran dungeon. I have put a year of real time into getting my characters' crafting up to scratch and I want transmogrification and transmutation more than anything. The idea that transmutation crystals will only be available in one and only one way, a way that I don't use, horrifies me. It's short-sighted and wrong in every way.

Asking without any intention of hurting you, just really curious: if you haven't (and possibly won't ever) run any vet dungeons (and I think neither vet trials), why do you really need optimal traits on your gear? OK, maybe for vMA or PvP, while I think you're mostly interested in crafting and business. Well, you can't even make money from transmutation. Then why is this really that important for you?

Again: no intention here to hurt you, just curious.

Transmutation and transmogrification are fundamentally about crafting, not end game. By tying transmutation to endgame ZoS have completely and horribly butchered something that someone like myself, who has invested so much time and effort into crafting, should automatically be a part of. I'm truly devastated by how they've done this.

DPShiro

clocksstoppe wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

It should require effort

No, it shouldn't require too much effort, it's a video game pal.

Yes and like everything else you want the absolute best you should put in some work for it.
Or would you rather have all weapons granted upon login with a sticker that says you are special?

sevomd69

DPShiro wrote: »

Not everyone should get BiS traits by just doing a dungeon or two.
It should require effort and only be used on special things, not your entire inventory.
It should be 100 to change a trait imo

The crystals are dropping at this rate only for PTS...they stated in the patch notes that they will occasionally drop on live..

Transmutation requires Transmute Crystals, precious resources occasionally received for successfully completing Veteran PvE activities such as Pledges, Trials, and Arenas, and several PvP sources such as Rewards for the Worthy, Battleground end of match rewards, and AvA end of campaign rewards. Transmute Crystals are an account wide, capped currency which cannot be banked or traded.

...so ther's gonna be even more qq'ing about the drop rate when this goes live... Its not like there's gonna be a conveyor belt of re-traited weapons...

nCats

DPShiro wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

It should require effort

No, it shouldn't require too much effort, it's a video game pal.

Yes and like everything else you want the absolute best you should put in some work for it.
Or would you rather have all weapons granted upon login with a sticker that says you are special?

As some popular TV show says, no one is special. The answer to your question would be yes: there are games with no grind at all which are enjoyed, grind doesn't make a game, don't fall into that trap .

Cutting down the number of crystals seems a reasonable demand.

Banana

So theyve swapped one grind for another. A word springs to mind. F@#!

Mystrius_Archaion

DPShiro wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

It should require effort

No, it shouldn't require too much effort, it's a video game pal.

Yes and like everything else you want the absolute best you should put in some work for it.
Or would you rather have all weapons granted upon login with a sticker that says you are special?

Since when has a system been called "the absolute best"? Yes, the results may be something "better than other things", but the system itself doesn't allow people to retrait lower level items, for example, to benefit themselves as they level up. By the way, you can pvp as you level up and get these crystals, for example.

You want to lock out a whole system to make it more difficult for others just so you can remain above them. Otherwise, if you just want to lock it out for yourself then you can ignore the system and do that.
"No skin off your nose" so stop arguing against making this more attainable. "You don't have a dog in this fight."


Edit:
You're the one who wants a "special" sticker. You want it grindy and exclusive to the "top players" which would mean the "1%" or the "exclusive club" or whatever. All of those descriptors are anything but "average and normal". "Special" is not "normal".
So, we don't want special stickers; you do, but it's the worst kind of special. The kind that wants to make others suffer more than themselves.

Feanor

If it is a guaranteed drop per dungeon 40 is quite ok. Some of the vet dungeons can be done in 10 or 15 minutes.

Mystrius_Archaion

Feanor wrote: »

If it is a guaranteed drop per dungeon 40 is quite ok. Some of the vet dungeons can be done in 10 or 15 minutes.

Edit: Did you mean 40 drop in one dungeon? That would be good, but it's 40 dungeons, plural, 40 times 15 minutes = 10 hours. WTF?!

Prior to edit:
In a good group after it forms, but how often does that happen in a short short time? How many of them will want to keep going and farm farm farm?

How long can you farm anything in a row? Will this be the new Dolmen grind just more painful since it's not easy-mode?

I definitely have trouble doing more than one group...anything a week. I have the time, but it's exhausting on top of potentially frustrating trying to get a group and then the people.


If they are going to require grouping to get these crystals then it better be a low number required per transmute, like 2 of them if not 1 per switch.
If they give it to us for solo content as well, like quest rewards above level 50 and normal solo delve bosses, then 20 sounds good.
Either of those options is attainable and not too bad a grind to be tolerable. 40 is too much and just insane when you tie it to grouping for the tougher content.

FrancisCrawford

zaria wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

My template character doesn't seem to have received them. Unless I am doing something wrong. When i check the currency tab is says 0/100. Others have said it says 200 for them. Does this limit increase with ESO plus? (I don't currently have it enabled). So 100 for non eso plus and 200 for eso plus?

That is an nasty one, benefit of saving up crystals is that if you farm for gear say running vault of madness for worm you can save up crystals until you either get the traits you want or enough crystals to re-trait.

with low storage capacity you need to use or lose the crystals risking to get an duplicate to an re-traited item afterward.

Yeah. That's ugly. It creates a significant chance that this extremely difficult to grind for resource will be simply wasted.

SaintSubwayy

Im a bit concerned with the voucher price of 1250 vouchers for a table at Rollis Hlaalu trader

Its a special station i get that but 1250 K for it....seems to high for me
maybe turn it down to 750 or 800 arround that area?

With the latest Writ drops we get (like 6 or 7 vouchers per writ) it'd take forever to get one

FrancisCrawford

Let's revisit one of the first discussions of this idea that I know of, back in June: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/351117/a-compromise-suggestion-for-itemization-trait-change-tokens

The initial cost suggestions were:

For example, appropriate costs for a Trait-Change Stone -- and these are VERY rough estimates -- might be:

500 writ vouchers.
50 copies of a token that shows up in every vMA final chest
50 copies of a token that shows up in the final chest to any of the hardest instances
100 Undaunted keys
Some huge number of alliance points.
100 copies of a token that's a very rare drop from general mobs and a fairly rare drop from world bosses and so on


Most respondents seemed to think that was reasonable, but perhaps on the high side.

Based on that discussion, I'd say:

• 40x a guaranteed vet dungeon drop is OK.
• 40x an "occasional" vet dungeon drop is not OK.
• If the costs are going to be anywhere in that range, there should be more ways to earn the tokens than PvE endgame and PvP.

In particularly, transmutation gems should be available for writ vouchers. Serious crafters should be able to do serious crafting.

Hippie4927

I think they need to add the crystals to fishing gunny sacks. Presently, there are no real awards for all the time spent getting Master Angler. The crystals would make a nice, occasional reward. Also, a way for mostly solo players to get them.

Mystrius_Archaion

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Let's revisit one of the first discussions of this idea that I know of, back in June: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/351117/a-compromise-suggestion-for-itemization-trait-change-tokens

The initial cost suggestions were:

For example, appropriate costs for a Trait-Change Stone -- and these are VERY rough estimates -- might be:

500 writ vouchers.
50 copies of a token that shows up in every vMA final chest
50 copies of a token that shows up in the final chest to any of the hardest instances
100 Undaunted keys
Some huge number of alliance points.
100 copies of a token that's a very rare drop from general mobs and a fairly rare drop from world bosses and so on


Most respondents seemed to think that was reasonable, but perhaps on the high side.

Based on that discussion, I'd say:

• 40x a guaranteed vet dungeon drop is OK.
• 40x an "occasional" vet dungeon drop is not OK.
• If the costs are going to be anywhere in that range, there should be more ways to earn the tokens than PvE endgame and PvP.

In particularly, transmutation gems should be available for writ vouchers. Serious crafters should be able to do serious crafting.

I never saw that discussion. It sounds like something mostly the people wanting another mind-numbing grind would have posted and supported.
500 writ vouchers is insane. I didn't even have any crafting skill but provisioning maxed out until I had been here a year. That wouldn't be appealing as all provisioning master writs are 1-2 writ vouchers.

Why do some people insist on it taking everyone casual years to get anything and anyone in the middle months?
By that time everyone moves on to other content and grouping becomes insanely hard to do for what you want to do.

altemriel

And also the crystals should be obtainable for PVPers too, either for Telvar Stones or for Rewards of the Worthy!!

no need to "force" them to play PVE if they do not like it

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

Mystrius_Archaion

altemriel wrote: »

And also the crystals should be obtainable for PVPers too, either for Telvar Stones or for Rewards of the Worthy!!

no need to "force" them to play PVE if they do not like it

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

They already posted that in the patch notes.

phileunderx2

There should be more ways to obtain the crystals than by just doing vet dungeons or trials. Much of the player base will be excluded myself included. I never run vet dungeons, trials and do very little pvp. So to obtain 40 ofthese crystals will not happen.

Lord_Eomer

please do not lower tranmutation crystals requirement ot else it would be much easier to change weapon/armor trait.

40 crystal shows me some sense to do re-training carefully! Eventually players will have pile of these crytals

Current requirement also is good for weapon/armor sale. if lowered amount then everyone would get crystals easily and no one will buy armor/weapons from traders.