Dive

Skander

It's a projectile (not a beam) but it's not reflectable.

Why?

Luigi_Vampa

Because they thought that reflecting a bird would look really stupid (and it would) and that the animation and travel time were so slow and obvious that it would never land if it was reflectable or dodgable. This was all said on an ESO live by Wrobel when they were showcasing the Warden before Morrowind launch.

Tryxus

It's a summon, not a projectile

Skander

So, a flying surprise attack that can't be dodged nor reflected is balanced.

Ok, good to know



what a disgrace

Destruent

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Because they thought that reflecting a bird would look really stupid (and it would) and that the animation and travel time were so slow and obvious that it would never land if it was reflectable or dodgable. This was all said on an ESO live by Wrobel when they were showcasing the Warden before Morrowind launch.

Sounds like Dark Flare

Skander

Destruent wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Because they thought that reflecting a bird would look really stupid (and it would) and that the animation and travel time were so slow and obvious that it would never land if it was reflectable or dodgable. This was all said on an ESO live by Wrobel when they were showcasing the Warden before Morrowind launch.

Sounds like Dark Flare

Exactly, dark flare has the lower end of the stick, ofc. Templar op pls nerf

Idinuse

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Because they thought that reflecting a bird would look really stupid (and it would) and that the animation and travel time were so slow and obvious that it would never land if it was reflectable or dodgable. This was all said on an ESO live by Wrobel when they were showcasing the Warden before Morrowind launch.

All good, but then it should have a 1.6 second cast time just like Dark Flare which also has a similar travel time.

This way it's raining, no pouring Birds from the same player.

raasdal

Dive is not considered a Projectile.

It is a summoned Pet, which suicides into your enemy.

Luigi_Vampa

Destruent wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Because they thought that reflecting a bird would look really stupid (and it would) and that the animation and travel time were so slow and obvious that it would never land if it was reflectable or dodgable. This was all said on an ESO live by Wrobel when they were showcasing the Warden before Morrowind launch.

Sounds like Dark Flare

Yeah, if ZOS is anything it is consistently inconsistent.

Skander

raasdal wrote: »

Dive is not considered a Projectile.

It is a summoned Pet, which suicides into your enemy.

It's a projectile. No matter how you want to look at it.

Taylor_MB

Ball of Lightening also absorbs Soul Strike for some reason, while we are on the topic of inconsistencies.

Luigi_Vampa

Idinuse wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Because they thought that reflecting a bird would look really stupid (and it would) and that the animation and travel time were so slow and obvious that it would never land if it was reflectable or dodgable. This was all said on an ESO live by Wrobel when they were showcasing the Warden before Morrowind launch.

All good, but then it should have a 1.6 second cast time just like Dark Flare which also has a similar travel time.

This way it's raining, no pouring Birds from the same player.

I think their reasoning is Dark Flare hits harder and defiles where Dive just does damage. If Dark Flare was made like Dive it would be absolutly brutal. They didn't talk about that on the ESO live if I remember correctly. It's just my guess.

Honestly, even on my Warden I don't use dive much. I don't like the way it looks or sounds. I think the bird kammakazi animation is odd. I would have preferred a summon or something. Maybe summon a cliffracer that flies around a target and attacks them for x seconds. Sort of how the sword from the Morkuldan set works.

Zer0oo

Because of pvp devs

SodanTok

I love these threads where people take one skill from class A and compare it with skill from class B. It is always very insightful... not

It is not projectile any more or less you are projectile headbutting someone.

Mojmir

SodanTok wrote: »

I love these threads where people take one skill from class A and compare it with skill from class B. It is always very insightful... not

It is not projectile any more or less you are projectile headbutting someone.

An object in motion with thrust of some kind behind it, sounds like a projectile. Now if you were vomiting at the same time, that would be exceptional.

Skander

SodanTok wrote: »

I love these threads where people take one skill from class A and compare it with skill from class B. It is always very insightful... not

It is not projectile any more or less you are projectile headbutting someone.

If dive isn't a projectile, Flare is not too:

If you see Flare description it says: CONJURE a ecc ecc

Your argument is invalid

DDuke

raasdal wrote: »

Dive is not considered a Projectile.

It is a summoned Pet, which suicides into your enemy.

It's not counted as a pet though, otherwise it'd proc sets like Necropotence & Hunt Leader.

Tryxus

DDuke wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Dive is not considered a Projectile.

It is a summoned Pet, which suicides into your enemy.

It's not counted as a pet though, otherwise it'd proc sets like Necropotence & Hunt Leader.

Bond with Nature

SodanTok

Skander wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

I love these threads where people take one skill from class A and compare it with skill from class B. It is always very insightful... not

It is not projectile any more or less you are projectile headbutting someone.

If dive isn't a projectile, Flare is not too:

If you see Flare description it says: CONJURE a ecc ecc

Your argument is invalid

We can argue all day if living thing in self induced motion is projectile and it would not matter (birds arent considered projectiles in normal word, so there's that). Because there are no rules that says projectiles must be dodgeable/reflectable, all your arguments are invalid. The only thing you can argue about is effect of this on your perceived balance.

Mojmir wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

I love these threads where people take one skill from class A and compare it with skill from class B. It is always very insightful... not

It is not projectile any more or less you are projectile headbutting someone.

An object in motion with thrust of some kind behind it, sounds like a projectile. Now if you were vomiting at the same time, that would be exceptional.

I think you never saw Dive in action in this game. Otherwise you would notice warden is not thrusting anything.

Luigi_Vampa

Why do people argue the definition of a projectile? It doesn't matter. It isn't like ZOS is going to say "Oh, well they proved that it is, by definition, a projectile. Due to the laws of the English Language we must change the game mechanics to follow." They will simply say, "yeah, well this is an unreflectable projectile so eat my bird spam!"

ZOS isn't bound to provide consistency in language and logic when it comes to gameplay. Calling them on that won't change anything.

Izaki

Dive is a joke of a skill. In both PvE and PvP. In PvE its way too slow. In PvP due to the fact that its way too slow its undodgeable. Just make the damn thing faster. It would also make the Warden feel less clunky and clumsy to play.

Waffennacht

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Dive is a joke of a skill. In both PvE and PvP. In PvE its way too slow. In PvP due to the fact that its way too slow its undodgeable. Just make the damn thing faster. It would also make the Warden feel less clunky and clumsy to play.

Get use to it, it won't feel clunky at all - it's like living in the future

olsborg

Skander wrote: »

So, a flying surprise attack that can't be dodged nor reflected is balanced.

Ok, good to know



what a disgrace

@Skander It has a higher tooltip dmg then surprise attack on identical stats fyi, so yea...fun.

artal

Well sadly

DDuke wrote: »

It's not counted as a pet though, otherwise it'd proc sets like Necropotence & Hunt Leader.

Sadly its still counted as some sort of pet since it proc bound with nature... btw did you tested hunt leader, i was curious if it proc that.

But all that aside I was saying even on pts that its to strong for spamable ability to be undodgable and unreflectable. When I'm 1vxing on stamblade even super bad wardens can be proper annoyance and cant get you killed if you are not close to los.
Its like Hitchcock movie out there sometimes.

Waffennacht

artal wrote: »

Well sadly

DDuke wrote: »

It's not counted as a pet though, otherwise it'd proc sets like Necropotence & Hunt Leader.

Sadly its still counted as some sort of pet since it proc bound with nature... btw did you tested hunt leader, i was curious if it proc that.

But all that aside I was saying even on pts that its to strong for spamable ability to be undodgable and unreflectable. When I'm 1vxing on stamblade even super bad wardens can be proper annoyance and cant get you killed if you are not close to los.
Its like Hitchcock movie out there sometimes.

Does not trigger hunt leader

Neoauspex

SodanTok wrote: »

I love these threads where people take one skill from class A and compare it with skill from class B. It is always very insightful... not

It is not projectile any more or less you are projectile headbutting someone.

Well, the Templar gap closer is a perfect example of flying through the air to headbutt someone and it IS reflectable.

Minno

Neoauspex wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

I love these threads where people take one skill from class A and compare it with skill from class B. It is always very insightful... not

It is not projectile any more or less you are projectile headbutting someone.

Well, the Templar gap closer is a perfect example of flying through the air to headbutt someone and it IS reflectable.

The secondary morph of that gap closer deals it's DMG as AOE DMG but it's still considered a direct DMG ability. So master at arms/fire staff will buff it but it will ignore dodge. It might still reflect.

Either way, can't compare a ranged spamable with an AOE/direct cc gap closer.

scipionumatia

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Why do people argue the definition of a projectile? It doesn't matter. It isn't like ZOS is going to say "Oh, well they proved that it is, by definition, a projectile. Due to the laws of the English Language we must change the game mechanics to follow." They will simply say, "yeah, well this is an unreflectable projectile so eat my bird spam!"

ZOS isn't bound to provide consistency in language and logic when it comes to gameplay. Calling them on that won't change anything.

@Luigi_Vampa
you are exactly right. its like arguing with your parent when your a child. you might be able to prove them wrong but your still not getting what you want.

@Neoauspex toppling charge can be reflected with scale? what???

Neoauspex

Minno wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

I love these threads where people take one skill from class A and compare it with skill from class B. It is always very insightful... not

It is not projectile any more or less you are projectile headbutting someone.

Well, the Templar gap closer is a perfect example of flying through the air to headbutt someone and it IS reflectable.

The secondary morph of that gap closer deals it's DMG as AOE DMG but it's still considered a direct DMG ability. So master at arms/fire staff will buff it but it will ignore dodge. It might still reflect.

Either way, can't compare a ranged spamable with an AOE/direct cc gap closer.

That's what I'm saying, it's ridiculous that the headbutt is reflectable and the ranged spammable is not. @scipionumatia it's reflectable by tower guard eclipse... Probably the Templar version too but nobody ever uses it so there's no way of knowing.

Skander

This is why it should be dodgiable:











Light armor, full dmg, carried by immanse shields.
The screenshot was taken by a medium armor user (not a nightblade so you can't even cloack it)

C0ndor

U got 12k health? If u took the deep fissure means that you was straight in front of him. Try not to. 6k cr compared to deep fissure means it critted for a lot, get some impen pieces/add some crit resistance in cp tree, will help a lot also against other classes burst. A mag dk can do exactly the same amount of dmg you showed here and in heavy armor if timed with skoria. Consider the full burst come every 3s so u got time to heal yourself.