Dive

Valencer

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

SodanTok

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Thats why medium needs buff, not dive nerf. Your crit cliff racers would hit for less if medium received some damage/crit damage reduction (during dodge rolls or all the time). Things like this should happen, not make something dodgeable and essentially deal 0 damage.

Sneaky-Snurr

SodanTok wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Not to call you same name you called him, but it would fit on someone that thinks the sole reason of dive undodgeability is... being slow. And I know they said it during the eso live. You need half a brain to figure out dive being slow is what allows it to be undodgeable, not the reason.

@SodanTok
That makes no sense at all, so by your logic, Snipe should be undodgable too?
You're implying that I am dumb but your reasoning makes 0 sense. You have no legitimate reason as to why dive should be undodgable. Like I said, those abilities I mentioned (including Snipe) have cast time and their projectiles are all just as slow as dive.
Guess you don't even have half a brain. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What. How did you arrived at this I did imply you are dumb, but because you believe they made dive undodgeable because it is slow when it is painfully obvious they wanted to make dive undodgeable and because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could.

But when it comes to legitimate reasons why dive should be undodgeable. There are plenty. The biggest one is that warden cant fight against mobile dodge roll builds without it. Not that you would understand, you are very obviously very emotional about this subject. Probably got killed by mindless bird spam while were you trying next level tactic of... spamming dodge roll.

@SodanTok
There we go. A person who points that others are being emotional but the same person also ironically jumps on conclusions, a symptom of an emotional person.
No, I rarely die to CACAWW spams since I utilise a few indirect/direct counters against Dive spammers but because I always see non-NBs (especially when you see your groupmates get killed with it) always getting the short end of the stick from Dive, I feel that the skill needs to be relooked at, on at least the counter mechanics.

You are a thick one I'll give you that.
You didn't even answer my question as to why Dive is undodgable. As far as I'm concerned now, I feel that Dive being undodgable is somewhat acceptable after @Waffennacht's explanation which is eloquently put. Props for that.
Also, "You need half a brain to figure out dive being slow is what allows it to be undodgeable, not the reason" makes no sense at all, probably to your special kind of breed it may make some hint of sense but not to others.

*tries to wait patiently so as to not be 'emotional'*

SodanTok

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Not to call you same name you called him, but it would fit on someone that thinks the sole reason of dive undodgeability is... being slow. And I know they said it during the eso live. You need half a brain to figure out dive being slow is what allows it to be undodgeable, not the reason.

@SodanTok
That makes no sense at all, so by your logic, Snipe should be undodgable too?
You're implying that I am dumb but your reasoning makes 0 sense. You have no legitimate reason as to why dive should be undodgable. Like I said, those abilities I mentioned (including Snipe) have cast time and their projectiles are all just as slow as dive.
Guess you don't even have half a brain. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What. How did you arrived at this I did imply you are dumb, but because you believe they made dive undodgeable because it is slow when it is painfully obvious they wanted to make dive undodgeable and because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could.

But when it comes to legitimate reasons why dive should be undodgeable. There are plenty. The biggest one is that warden cant fight against mobile dodge roll builds without it. Not that you would understand, you are very obviously very emotional about this subject. Probably got killed by mindless bird spam while were you trying next level tactic of... spamming dodge roll.

@SodanTok
There we go. A person who points that others are being emotional but the same person also ironically jumps on conclusions, a symptom of an emotional person.
No, I rarely die to CACAWW spams since I utilise a few indirect/direct counters against Dive spammers but because I always see non-NBs (especially when you see your groupmates get killed with it) always getting the short end of the stick from Dive, I feel that the skill needs to be relooked at, on at least the counter mechanics.

You are a thick one I'll give you that.
You didn't even answer my question as to why Dive is undodgable. Also, "You need half a brain to figure out dive being slow is what allows it to be undodgeable, not the reason" makes no sense at all, probably to your special kind of breed it may make some hint of sense but not to others.

*tries to wait patiently so as to not be 'emotional'*

Sorry my post was too hard for you to understand.

C0ndor

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

Skander

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

Waffennacht

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Skander

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Pretty much every stun, when you get yourself stunned, is a free immunity. The metter is that shalks are 25% your dps for the combo

Waffennacht

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Pretty much every stun, when you get yourself stunned, is a free immunity. The metter is that shalks are 25% your dps for the combo

Yes, however, Shalk is the only CC that doesn't set up burst, and is every 3 seconds.

You, as a warden, would prefer to CC prior to shalk landing.

Edit: No other CC ability can happen without your interactions, Shalk can, it's not like you can cancel Shalk after hitting it

Xvorg

Skander wrote: »

It's a projectile (not a beam) but it's not reflectable.

Why?

coz Wrobel

C0ndor

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Pretty much every stun, when you get yourself stunned, is a free immunity. The metter is that shalks are 25% your dps for the combo

Yes, however, Shalk is the only CC that doesn't set up burst, and is every 3 seconds.

You, as a warden, would prefer to CC prior to shalk landing.

Edit: No other CC ability can happen without your interactions, Shalk can, it's not like you can cancel Shalk after hitting it

This.
I don’ t want to stun with shalk, I want my opponent stunned when shalk lands so he will take full damage, he can’t dodge or block. If the opponent is in heavy armor and is able to press block every 3s you will never be able to kill him on mag warden.

Skander

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Pretty much every stun, when you get yourself stunned, is a free immunity. The metter is that shalks are 25% your dps for the combo

Yes, however, Shalk is the only CC that doesn't set up burst, and is every 3 seconds.

You, as a warden, would prefer to CC prior to shalk landing.

Edit: No other CC ability can happen without your interactions, Shalk can, it's not like you can cancel Shalk after hitting it

Actually, it makes the class easier. With templar when i had spear shard with the stun (i want that back btw) i would slot my stun on back bar and use other on the front bar, so to actually have 6 skills (3 seconds delay with stun).
That's a pretty good tactic. Becouse we can all say, that shalks is way better then toppling and jav combined

Waffennacht

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Pretty much every stun, when you get yourself stunned, is a free immunity. The metter is that shalks are 25% your dps for the combo

Yes, however, Shalk is the only CC that doesn't set up burst, and is every 3 seconds.

You, as a warden, would prefer to CC prior to shalk landing.

Edit: No other CC ability can happen without your interactions, Shalk can, it's not like you can cancel Shalk after hitting it

Actually, it makes the class easier. With templar when i had spear shard with the stun (i want that back btw) i would slot my stun on back bar and use other on the front bar, so to actually have 6 skills (3 seconds delay with stun).
That's a pretty good tactic. Becouse we can all say, that shalks is way better then toppling and jav combined

Toppling blows - I've watched many videos of it just not working
Javelin is a secret counter to trees

If your Shalk is landing more than 25% of the time without a CC on your opponent, then your opponent is very inexperienced

Hutch679

C0ndor wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Btw nb sorc and dk has unblockable undodgable stun, the only stun that warden have is blockable and you can easily dodge it

Besides Manifestation of Terror (which requires other player to step on the trap), all those CCs NB, Sorc & DK have are actually "stamina drains" rather than CCs as they incur a GCD on the player casting them as well.

A good opponent will CC break & roll dodge/block/heal before any further burst lands after Fear, Fossilize or Rune Cage, hence there's no real effect on the fight besides draining the opponent's stamina.


The power of delayed CC such as the Shalks & Manifestation of Terror (actually the better fear morph) is that you can line up burst with it without having to worry about GCD & opponent's reaction time.

Another point worth noting is that Fear & Rune Cage deal no dmg at all, while Fossilize deals only small dmg - where as Shalks deal enormous amount of dmg.


Whether you can dodge them or not also has a lot to do with your opponent & how good he/she is at aiming them (much like templar Sweeps/Jabs).

Cyrodiil does not allow even godly players to break CCs that fast. Fear literally guarantees ~2sec of CC

Well, unless you start hitting break at/prior to it happening. I get accused of cheating because of how fast I sometimes CC break. It's because I can usually preemptively CC break on a predictable opponent

You really need to CC break when you see the opponent cast a CC not when it renders you as CC'ed. As soon as that NB shrugs his shoulder at me I've already hit break free and I'm back on offense

This. Some NB broke CC from my flame clench the second he was knocked back and was right back on top of me. That's just clever use of game mechanics and a good player.

Didn’t know you can do this honestly, but my perma lag probably will not allow me to do it (in vivec at least) btw I don’t see the problem of an undodgable spammable when other classes have undodgable unblockable stun, I will trade cr for that right now. Plz make cliff racer deal no damage but be an unblockable stun and I’ll do great things ^^

Breaking cc as soon as you get cc'd is a mechanic comparable to animation cancelling

Hutch679

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Not to call you same name you called him, but it would fit on someone that thinks the sole reason of dive undodgeability is... being slow. And I know they said it during the eso live. You need half a brain to figure out dive being slow is what allows it to be undodgeable, not the reason.

@SodanTok
That makes no sense at all, so by your logic, Snipe should be undodgable too?
You're implying that I am dumb but your reasoning makes 0 sense. You have no legitimate reason as to why dive should be undodgable. Like I said, those abilities I mentioned (including Snipe) have cast time and their projectiles are all just as slow as dive.
Guess you don't even have half a brain. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, then how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Darkflare does a lot, and Shards... da heck? There's a lot more wrong with shards apart from it's projectile speed.

Dive just shows a symptom of Medium armor's weakness, Dive itself isn't OP because it can't be roll dodged, Every undodgeable ability/effect preys upon medium's squishiness

@Waffennacht
Don't get me wrong. I'm super fine with undodgable abilities if they're AoE but Dive is a direct target damaging ability and it's just breathtakingly idiotic to make it undodgable.

And what about Snipe then? It doesn't hit as hard as shards and flare but its cast time is just as atrociously long as the other mentioned ones.

You lost me when you started comparing weapon skills that are available to every class, with class skills that's are not.

Pastas

Skander wrote: »

So, a flying surprise attack that can't be dodged nor reflected is balanced.

Ok, good to know



what a disgrace

In fact it hits harder than a SA, at leats the magika morf.

C0ndor wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

U got 12k health? If u took the deep fissure means that you was straight in front of him. Try not to. 6k cr compared to deep fissure means it critted for a lot, get some impen pieces/add some crit resistance in cp tree, will help a lot also against other classes burst. A mag dk can do exactly the same amount of dmg you showed here and in heavy armor if timed with skoria. Consider the full burst come every 3s so u got time to heal yourself.

1: i was escaping becouse it was a 2v1. You are not gonna kill shield spammers in medium if you can't cloak.
2: that hitted me more then once, i coudn't block it becouse they would have chased, coudn't dodge it beocuse you know. it HITS ANYWAY
3: i have 23k HP
4: that *** needs to be dodgiable.
5: skoria is a monster set, not a spammable skill, argument invalid.

Edit: i am full impen

Sorry I didn't read you are not a nb. The problem is that, I played all stam classes, you will die badly in medium if ur not a nb, maybe as sorc you can streak away, roll dodge on bow and run but as stamplar or dk you can just stand and die against decent players. The only thing that can keep you alive in medium are a healer and or troll king/pirate skeleton. Go heavy. Skoria is a set, not a skill that cost resources, so it's better than a spammable:). I asked bout your health because u uploaded just the wardens damage like it was a 1v1. Consider also that a warden that deals that damage and has high shield don't use an effective offensive ultimate (northern storm sucks if not for the mag passives). Dive is the only counter to perma roll and medium user but u will suck most of the time against a dk Permablock. Warden are counter to someone and can be countered by others, get over it people, you can't easily kill all classes and survive against all the others with any class, it's utopic balance that no game can archieve, there will always be a class that is better than another on 1v1 with a certain gear.

Dive the only counter to roll dodge?, you must be joking.

There isn't any other defensive mechanic in this game with so much counters.

C0ndor

Pastas wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

So, a flying surprise attack that can't be dodged nor reflected is balanced.

Ok, good to know



what a disgrace

In fact it hits harder than a SA, at leats the magika morf.

C0ndor wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

U got 12k health? If u took the deep fissure means that you was straight in front of him. Try not to. 6k cr compared to deep fissure means it critted for a lot, get some impen pieces/add some crit resistance in cp tree, will help a lot also against other classes burst. A mag dk can do exactly the same amount of dmg you showed here and in heavy armor if timed with skoria. Consider the full burst come every 3s so u got time to heal yourself.

1: i was escaping becouse it was a 2v1. You are not gonna kill shield spammers in medium if you can't cloak.
2: that hitted me more then once, i coudn't block it becouse they would have chased, coudn't dodge it beocuse you know. it HITS ANYWAY
3: i have 23k HP
4: that *** needs to be dodgiable.
5: skoria is a monster set, not a spammable skill, argument invalid.

Edit: i am full impen

Sorry I didn't read you are not a nb. The problem is that, I played all stam classes, you will die badly in medium if ur not a nb, maybe as sorc you can streak away, roll dodge on bow and run but as stamplar or dk you can just stand and die against decent players. The only thing that can keep you alive in medium are a healer and or troll king/pirate skeleton. Go heavy. Skoria is a set, not a skill that cost resources, so it's better than a spammable:). I asked bout your health because u uploaded just the wardens damage like it was a 1v1. Consider also that a warden that deals that damage and has high shield don't use an effective offensive ultimate (northern storm sucks if not for the mag passives). Dive is the only counter to perma roll and medium user but u will suck most of the time against a dk Permablock. Warden are counter to someone and can be countered by others, get over it people, you can't easily kill all classes and survive against all the others with any class, it's utopic balance that no game can archieve, there will always be a class that is better than another on 1v1 with a certain gear.

Dive the only counter to roll dodge?, you must be joking.

There isn't any other defensive mechanic in this game with so much counters.

For warden* forgot to mention that. Make dive undodgable and warden will simply become impossible to play as it is atm. you can easily avoid the burst of the other skills, you will more easily dodge dive, a warden will never hit a medium user, will never deal enough damage to put down a heavy armor user (the delay of dive can’t finish a target after the burst, he will just heal and come back) or a light armor guy with decent shield. Don’t try to sell me the burst combo is easy to land, as someone said before

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Pretty much every stun, when you get yourself stunned, is a free immunity. The metter is that shalks are 25% your dps for the combo

Yes, however, Shalk is the only CC that doesn't set up burst, and is every 3 seconds.

You, as a warden, would prefer to CC prior to shalk landing.

Edit: No other CC ability can happen without your interactions, Shalk can, it's not like you can cancel Shalk after hitting it

Actually, it makes the class easier. With templar when i had spear shard with the stun (i want that back btw) i would slot my stun on back bar and use other on the front bar, so to actually have 6 skills (3 seconds delay with stun).
That's a pretty good tactic. Becouse we can all say, that shalks is way better then toppling and jav combined

Toppling blows - I've watched many videos of it just not working
Javelin is a secret counter to trees

If your Shalk is landing more than 25% of the time without a CC on your opponent, then your opponent is very inexperienced

Skander

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Pretty much every stun, when you get yourself stunned, is a free immunity. The metter is that shalks are 25% your dps for the combo

Yes, however, Shalk is the only CC that doesn't set up burst, and is every 3 seconds.

You, as a warden, would prefer to CC prior to shalk landing.

Edit: No other CC ability can happen without your interactions, Shalk can, it's not like you can cancel Shalk after hitting it

Actually, it makes the class easier. With templar when i had spear shard with the stun (i want that back btw) i would slot my stun on back bar and use other on the front bar, so to actually have 6 skills (3 seconds delay with stun).
That's a pretty good tactic. Becouse we can all say, that shalks is way better then toppling and jav combined

Toppling blows - I've watched many videos of it just not working
Javelin is a secret counter to trees

If your Shalk is landing more than 25% of the time without a CC on your opponent, then your opponent is very inexperienced

Shalks proc where you are looking. So it's pretty easy to land actually.

The javeling is a counter to tree? you know that the mag version isn't even worth a cc free right? The stamina costs a lot, it can be deflected, isn' a aoe stun, dodged. Ecc ecc

Gan Xing

Skander wrote: »

This is why it should be dodgiable:











Light armor, full dmg, carried by immanse shields.
The screenshot was taken by a medium armor user (not a nightblade so you can't even cloack it)

I've had my cliff racers cloaked by night blades...

C0ndor

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Pretty much every stun, when you get yourself stunned, is a free immunity. The metter is that shalks are 25% your dps for the combo

Yes, however, Shalk is the only CC that doesn't set up burst, and is every 3 seconds.

You, as a warden, would prefer to CC prior to shalk landing.

Edit: No other CC ability can happen without your interactions, Shalk can, it's not like you can cancel Shalk after hitting it

Actually, it makes the class easier. With templar when i had spear shard with the stun (i want that back btw) i would slot my stun on back bar and use other on the front bar, so to actually have 6 skills (3 seconds delay with stun).
That's a pretty good tactic. Becouse we can all say, that shalks is way better then toppling and jav combined

Toppling blows - I've watched many videos of it just not working
Javelin is a secret counter to trees

If your Shalk is landing more than 25% of the time without a CC on your opponent, then your opponent is very inexperienced

Shalks proc where you are looking. So it's pretty easy to land actually.

The javeling is a counter to tree? you know that the mag version isn't even worth a cc free right? The stamina costs a lot, it can be deflected, isn' a aoe stun, dodged. Ecc ecc

Where the warden is looking, not where the camera is looking. A good player knows that and stand on the side, dodge right before the shalk a hits, if a dk perma root , if a sorc can streak through easily and stun instead get stunned.

Skander

C0ndor wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Pretty much every stun, when you get yourself stunned, is a free immunity. The metter is that shalks are 25% your dps for the combo

Yes, however, Shalk is the only CC that doesn't set up burst, and is every 3 seconds.

You, as a warden, would prefer to CC prior to shalk landing.

Edit: No other CC ability can happen without your interactions, Shalk can, it's not like you can cancel Shalk after hitting it

Actually, it makes the class easier. With templar when i had spear shard with the stun (i want that back btw) i would slot my stun on back bar and use other on the front bar, so to actually have 6 skills (3 seconds delay with stun).
That's a pretty good tactic. Becouse we can all say, that shalks is way better then toppling and jav combined

Toppling blows - I've watched many videos of it just not working
Javelin is a secret counter to trees

If your Shalk is landing more than 25% of the time without a CC on your opponent, then your opponent is very inexperienced

Shalks proc where you are looking. So it's pretty easy to land actually.

The javeling is a counter to tree? you know that the mag version isn't even worth a cc free right? The stamina costs a lot, it can be deflected, isn' a aoe stun, dodged. Ecc ecc

Where the warden is looking, not where the camera is looking. A good player knows that and stand on the side, dodge right before the shalk a hits, if a dk perma root , if a sorc can streak through easily and stun instead get stunned.

A good player knows when to time his shalks and when to use them. ofc. We are not talking to of good player we are talking about statistichs and skills

Waffennacht

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Pretty much every stun, when you get yourself stunned, is a free immunity. The metter is that shalks are 25% your dps for the combo

Yes, however, Shalk is the only CC that doesn't set up burst, and is every 3 seconds.

You, as a warden, would prefer to CC prior to shalk landing.

Edit: No other CC ability can happen without your interactions, Shalk can, it's not like you can cancel Shalk after hitting it

Actually, it makes the class easier. With templar when i had spear shard with the stun (i want that back btw) i would slot my stun on back bar and use other on the front bar, so to actually have 6 skills (3 seconds delay with stun).
That's a pretty good tactic. Becouse we can all say, that shalks is way better then toppling and jav combined

Toppling blows - I've watched many videos of it just not working
Javelin is a secret counter to trees

If your Shalk is landing more than 25% of the time without a CC on your opponent, then your opponent is very inexperienced

Shalks proc where you are looking. So it's pretty easy to land actually.

The javeling is a counter to tree? you know that the mag version isn't even worth a cc free right? The stamina costs a lot, it can be deflected, isn' a aoe stun, dodged. Ecc ecc

Where the warden is looking, not where the camera is looking. A good player knows that and stand on the side, dodge right before the shalk a hits, if a dk perma root , if a sorc can streak through easily and stun instead get stunned.

A good player knows when to time his shalks and when to use them. ofc. We are not talking to of good player we are talking about statistichs and skills

First off, where your character is looking is not entirely within your control - your camera is. Not to mention console users not having access to as accurate equipment, UIs, Mods, etc that PC users do

Second, you'll be hard pressed to find many players with even a fraction of experience in PvP with a Warden as I do.

Yes, against an inexperienced player Shalks will destroy, But against, @Lexxypwns @NightbladeMechanics Fengrush etc you'll find their knowledge of movement, kiting, LoS, CC, knock back etc will have your Shalks missing practically every time Unless you're able to CC PRIOR to Shalks.

I don't care how good you are, the act of lining up a cross hair against a potato is far easier than an expert

Lexxypwns

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Pretty much every stun, when you get yourself stunned, is a free immunity. The metter is that shalks are 25% your dps for the combo

Yes, however, Shalk is the only CC that doesn't set up burst, and is every 3 seconds.

You, as a warden, would prefer to CC prior to shalk landing.

Edit: No other CC ability can happen without your interactions, Shalk can, it's not like you can cancel Shalk after hitting it

Actually, it makes the class easier. With templar when i had spear shard with the stun (i want that back btw) i would slot my stun on back bar and use other on the front bar, so to actually have 6 skills (3 seconds delay with stun).
That's a pretty good tactic. Becouse we can all say, that shalks is way better then toppling and jav combined

Toppling blows - I've watched many videos of it just not working
Javelin is a secret counter to trees

If your Shalk is landing more than 25% of the time without a CC on your opponent, then your opponent is very inexperienced

Shalks proc where you are looking. So it's pretty easy to land actually.

The javeling is a counter to tree? you know that the mag version isn't even worth a cc free right? The stamina costs a lot, it can be deflected, isn' a aoe stun, dodged. Ecc ecc

Where the warden is looking, not where the camera is looking. A good player knows that and stand on the side, dodge right before the shalk a hits, if a dk perma root , if a sorc can streak through easily and stun instead get stunned.

A good player knows when to time his shalks and when to use them. ofc. We are not talking to of good player we are talking about statistichs and skills

First off, where your character is looking is not entirely within your control - your camera is. Not to mention console users not having access to as accurate equipment, UIs, Mods, etc that PC users do

Second, you'll be hard pressed to find many players with even a fraction of experience in PvP with a Warden as I do.

Yes, against an inexperienced player Shalks will destroy, But against, @Lexxypwns @NightbladeMechanics Fengrush etc you'll find their knowledge of movement, kiting, LoS, CC, knock back etc will have your Shalks missing practically every time Unless you're able to CC PRIOR to Shalks.

I don't care how good you are, the act of lining up a cross hair against a potato is far easier than an expert

I've literally only ever lost a 1v1 to 1 warden ever and it was @Waffennacht and despite his considerable skill, I'm quite certain he never gets that kill if I don't get distracted playing around with his bear. There's been lots of wardens who have been able to tank and tank and tank then eventually get worn down and killed and there's been a bunch that melted fast, but there's never been one that's going to reliably land shalks on me. That *** hits like a damned truck and once you realize that getting caught in it means almost certain death you do whatever it takes to make the warden engage you on your terms. The only time I will eat a shalk is when the warden has set his combo up perfectly and outplayed me to bait me into bad position, its the epitome of skill shots in ESO against a good player. Furthermore, a warden who is spamming dive is never going to have the ability to burst down a good player who is running a complete build. If you're a medium or light armor glass cannon then you'll have trouble with wardens, but that's also true for mag sorcs and any other really bursty build.

Dive isn't all that dangerous, a warden spamming dive is much like a stamblade spamming surprise attack, they're just putting out pressure but nothing especially threatening. As long as you understand that the racer is really just pressure and that all the burst is tied to shalks you'll stop having problems with dying to wardens.

Valencer

The difference of course being that a surprise attack is close ranged and dodgeable, while bird spam is long ranged and for people who dont rely on block or damage shields for defense there is no counter whatsoever.

Nobody cares about 1v1s. Running into a reasonable 1v1 fight in Cyrodiil or BGs is not a thing anymore anyway, as people just tank until you get zerged. So the only thing that matters is how particular abilities play out in zerg scenarios and thats exactly where the uncounterable pressure of bird spam is just too much.

Frankly, I think it's completely irrelevant how much experience anyone has on warden. The class has only been out for 4 months and is still fundamentally broken in so many ways, from many of its' abilities completely bypassing fundamental defense mechanics to almost total (and sustainable) immunity to ranged projectiles to the whole class being too squishy if not relying on tree ulti spam. What a mess.

C0ndor

Valencer wrote: »

The difference of course being that a surprise attack is close ranged and dodgeable, while bird spam is long ranged and for people who dont rely on block or damage shields for defense there is no counter whatsoever.

Nobody cares about 1v1s. Running into a reasonable 1v1 fight in Cyrodiil or BGs is not a thing anymore anyway, as people just tank until you get zerged. So the only thing that matters is how particular abilities play out in zerg scenarios and thats exactly where the uncounterable pressure of bird spam is just too much.

Frankly, I think it's completely irrelevant how much experience anyone has on warden. The class has only been out for 4 months and is still fundamentally broken in so many ways, from many of its' abilities completely bypassing fundamental defense mechanics to almost total (and sustainable) immunity to ranged projectiles to the whole class being too squishy if not relying on tree ulti spam. What a mess.

Guess what, I don’t care bout zerglings. You are still focusing a class because of what he can do with other 6/7. Guess what, you will die anyways of you got zerged by 6/7 sorcs, nb or dk if you are alone. You can be stunned and die in a sec and you can block or do cheese rolling but you’ll get stunned and die
Plz dude just go in buff medium armor thread, you can have your dive dogable and then what? Keep on die but from other classes and open a nerf thread for other classes? Almost every class have their undodgable skills, some has more than one and none of them aoe

Valencer

Well then, person "maining" a class that isnt even 4 months old yet, Im sure you can point me at all the undodgeable single target spammable abilities in the game?

Skander

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Pretty much every stun, when you get yourself stunned, is a free immunity. The metter is that shalks are 25% your dps for the combo

Yes, however, Shalk is the only CC that doesn't set up burst, and is every 3 seconds.

You, as a warden, would prefer to CC prior to shalk landing.

Edit: No other CC ability can happen without your interactions, Shalk can, it's not like you can cancel Shalk after hitting it

Actually, it makes the class easier. With templar when i had spear shard with the stun (i want that back btw) i would slot my stun on back bar and use other on the front bar, so to actually have 6 skills (3 seconds delay with stun).
That's a pretty good tactic. Becouse we can all say, that shalks is way better then toppling and jav combined

Toppling blows - I've watched many videos of it just not working
Javelin is a secret counter to trees

If your Shalk is landing more than 25% of the time without a CC on your opponent, then your opponent is very inexperienced

Shalks proc where you are looking. So it's pretty easy to land actually.

The javeling is a counter to tree? you know that the mag version isn't even worth a cc free right? The stamina costs a lot, it can be deflected, isn' a aoe stun, dodged. Ecc ecc

Where the warden is looking, not where the camera is looking. A good player knows that and stand on the side, dodge right before the shalk a hits, if a dk perma root , if a sorc can streak through easily and stun instead get stunned.

A good player knows when to time his shalks and when to use them. ofc. We are not talking to of good player we are talking about statistichs and skills

First off, where your character is looking is not entirely within your control - your camera is. Not to mention console users not having access to as accurate equipment, UIs, Mods, etc that PC users do

Second, you'll be hard pressed to find many players with even a fraction of experience in PvP with a Warden as I do.

Yes, against an inexperienced player Shalks will destroy, But against, @Lexxypwns @NightbladeMechanics Fengrush etc you'll find their knowledge of movement, kiting, LoS, CC, knock back etc will have your Shalks missing practically every time Unless you're able to CC PRIOR to Shalks.

I don't care how good you are, the act of lining up a cross hair against a potato is far easier than an expert

First off, your character is not looking where your camera is only if stunned or sof-cced
Second off: if you think that's hard vs good player, try imagine templar stuns. One of those is useless (charge) the other throws the enemy away from your jabs.



But you were one of the many defending the resto ult on another topic, i don't expect much

Skander

Valencer wrote: »

Well then, person "maining" a class that isnt even 4 months old yet, Im sure you can point me at all the undodgeable single target spammable abilities in the game?

Only beams are undodgiable. (crushing shock is a beam but dodgiable)

C0ndor

Valencer wrote: »

Well then, person "maining" a class that isnt even 4 months old yet, Im sure you can point me at all the undodgeable single target spammable abilities in the game?

Skander wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Well then, person "maining" a class that isnt even 4 months old yet, Im sure you can point me at all the undodgeable single target spammable abilities in the game?

Only beams are undodgiable. (crushing shock is a beam but dodgiable)

Errrr nope, i’m talking about skills and cc, not about spammables.
You want a list of undodgable skills? Are u serious? Next patch (for example) if you are running from a zerg in medium and you’re not a nb you need just one (1, not 2 or 3) sorc (or dk) in the group chasing you and you will die. you need an undodgable hard cc (pietrify or rune cage for example) and you will take all the zerg spammable without dodge a single one.

Waffennacht

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

Don't worry, Ive been enjoying the hell out of my stamina warden and hitting up to 10k cliff racers on people. Block or die is basically the only option people have and when Im grouped blocking just means you will get overrun by my group members. Kind of a non-ulti version of soul assault.

If you think Deep Fissure is unreliable youre welcome to try playing magplar and enjoy the lack of any kind of reliable (and undodgeable) CC. My point is - there's plenty to appreciate in the mag warden's toolkit and this is just "the grass is greener on the other side" thinking.

I don't disagree with you on your last point - it's painfully obvious the devs don't give a crap so Im mostly just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Stam warden is broken af, but the magika in light armor is another story

I totally agree on templars, but magden has the same reliable stun, templar and warden are on the same boat for cc

well no. Warden stunsa re 1000% better then Templars. And a warden stun will be used for onebang

There is 1 warden stun and it's attached to your win combo

It's better to use something like Reverb to set up the combo imo

I hate it when Shalks land right when I get CC'd, it's like, here have some free immunity

Pretty much every stun, when you get yourself stunned, is a free immunity. The metter is that shalks are 25% your dps for the combo

Yes, however, Shalk is the only CC that doesn't set up burst, and is every 3 seconds.

You, as a warden, would prefer to CC prior to shalk landing.

Edit: No other CC ability can happen without your interactions, Shalk can, it's not like you can cancel Shalk after hitting it

Actually, it makes the class easier. With templar when i had spear shard with the stun (i want that back btw) i would slot my stun on back bar and use other on the front bar, so to actually have 6 skills (3 seconds delay with stun).
That's a pretty good tactic. Becouse we can all say, that shalks is way better then toppling and jav combined

Toppling blows - I've watched many videos of it just not working
Javelin is a secret counter to trees

If your Shalk is landing more than 25% of the time without a CC on your opponent, then your opponent is very inexperienced

Shalks proc where you are looking. So it's pretty easy to land actually.

The javeling is a counter to tree? you know that the mag version isn't even worth a cc free right? The stamina costs a lot, it can be deflected, isn' a aoe stun, dodged. Ecc ecc

Where the warden is looking, not where the camera is looking. A good player knows that and stand on the side, dodge right before the shalk a hits, if a dk perma root , if a sorc can streak through easily and stun instead get stunned.

A good player knows when to time his shalks and when to use them. ofc. We are not talking to of good player we are talking about statistichs and skills

First off, where your character is looking is not entirely within your control - your camera is. Not to mention console users not having access to as accurate equipment, UIs, Mods, etc that PC users do

Second, you'll be hard pressed to find many players with even a fraction of experience in PvP with a Warden as I do.

Yes, against an inexperienced player Shalks will destroy, But against, @Lexxypwns @NightbladeMechanics Fengrush etc you'll find their knowledge of movement, kiting, LoS, CC, knock back etc will have your Shalks missing practically every time Unless you're able to CC PRIOR to Shalks.

I don't care how good you are, the act of lining up a cross hair against a potato is far easier than an expert

First off, your character is not looking where your camera is only if stunned or sof-cced
Second off: if you think that's hard vs good player, try imagine templar stuns. One of those is useless (charge) the other throws the enemy away from your jabs.



But you were one of the many defending the resto ult on another topic, i don't expect much

Already said the first half of your comment, like almost word for word.

Let me just end this whole conversation:
Dive will ALWAYS remain undodgeable