Dive

Skander

C0ndor wrote: »

U got 12k health? If u took the deep fissure means that you was straight in front of him. Try not to. 6k cr compared to deep fissure means it critted for a lot, get some impen pieces/add some crit resistance in cp tree, will help a lot also against other classes burst. A mag dk can do exactly the same amount of dmg you showed here and in heavy armor if timed with skoria. Consider the full burst come every 3s so u got time to heal yourself.

1: i was escaping becouse it was a 2v1. You are not gonna kill shield spammers in medium if you can't cloak.
2: that hitted me more then once, i coudn't block it becouse they would have chased, coudn't dodge it beocuse you know. it HITS ANYWAY
3: i have 23k HP
4: that *** needs to be dodgiable.
5: skoria is a monster set, not a spammable skill, argument invalid.

Edit: i am full impen

DDuke

Hmm... and that wasn't even comboe'd with Soul Assault (or Meteor)


and some people still insist medium is fine lul

Skander

DDuke wrote: »

Hmm... and that wasn't even comboe'd with Soul Assault (or Meteor)


and some people still insist medium is fine lul

I know right? I can understand people defending their meta becouse they can't kill anything without it, and becouse it's easy to play. But not agreeing on a blazing problem like this, is kinda ***.

C0ndor

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

U got 12k health? If u took the deep fissure means that you was straight in front of him. Try not to. 6k cr compared to deep fissure means it critted for a lot, get some impen pieces/add some crit resistance in cp tree, will help a lot also against other classes burst. A mag dk can do exactly the same amount of dmg you showed here and in heavy armor if timed with skoria. Consider the full burst come every 3s so u got time to heal yourself.

1: i was escaping becouse it was a 2v1. You are not gonna kill shield spammers in medium if you can't cloak.
2: that hitted me more then once, i coudn't block it becouse they would have chased, coudn't dodge it beocuse you know. it HITS ANYWAY
3: i have 23k HP
4: that *** needs to be dodgiable.
5: skoria is a monster set, not a spammable skill, argument invalid.

Edit: i am full impen

Sorry I didn't read you are not a nb. The problem is that, I played all stam classes, you will die badly in medium if ur not a nb, maybe as sorc you can streak away, roll dodge on bow and run but as stamplar or dk you can just stand and die against decent players. The only thing that can keep you alive in medium are a healer and or troll king/pirate skeleton. Go heavy. Skoria is a set, not a skill that cost resources, so it's better than a spammable:). I asked bout your health because u uploaded just the wardens damage like it was a 1v1. Consider also that a warden that deals that damage and has high shield don't use an effective offensive ultimate (northern storm sucks if not for the mag passives). Dive is the only counter to perma roll and medium user but u will suck most of the time against a dk Permablock. Warden are counter to someone and can be countered by others, get over it people, you can't easily kill all classes and survive against all the others with any class, it's utopic balance that no game can archieve, there will always be a class that is better than another on 1v1 with a certain gear.

Skander

C0ndor wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

U got 12k health? If u took the deep fissure means that you was straight in front of him. Try not to. 6k cr compared to deep fissure means it critted for a lot, get some impen pieces/add some crit resistance in cp tree, will help a lot also against other classes burst. A mag dk can do exactly the same amount of dmg you showed here and in heavy armor if timed with skoria. Consider the full burst come every 3s so u got time to heal yourself.

1: i was escaping becouse it was a 2v1. You are not gonna kill shield spammers in medium if you can't cloak.
2: that hitted me more then once, i coudn't block it becouse they would have chased, coudn't dodge it beocuse you know. it HITS ANYWAY
3: i have 23k HP
4: that *** needs to be dodgiable.
5: skoria is a monster set, not a spammable skill, argument invalid.

Edit: i am full impen

Sorry I didn't read you are not a nb. The problem is that, I played all stam classes, you will die badly in medium if ur not a nb, maybe as sorc you can streak away, roll dodge on bow and run but as stamplar or dk you can just stand and die against decent players. The only thing that can keep you alive in medium are a healer and or troll king/pirate skeleton. Go heavy. Skoria is a set, not a skill that cost resources, so it's better than a spammable:). I asked bout your health because u uploaded just the wardens damage like it was a 1v1. Consider also that a warden that deals that damage and has high shield don't use an effective offensive ultimate (northern storm sucks if not for the mag passives). Dive is the only counter to perma roll and medium user but u will suck most of the time against a dk Permablock. Warden are counter to someone and can be countered by others, get over it people, you can't easily kill all classes and survive against all the others with any class, it's utopic balance that no game can archieve, there will always be a class that is better than another on 1v1 with a certain gear.

I won't go heavy becouse the meta says it. I'll complain till the meta is balanced

C0ndor

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

U got 12k health? If u took the deep fissure means that you was straight in front of him. Try not to. 6k cr compared to deep fissure means it critted for a lot, get some impen pieces/add some crit resistance in cp tree, will help a lot also against other classes burst. A mag dk can do exactly the same amount of dmg you showed here and in heavy armor if timed with skoria. Consider the full burst come every 3s so u got time to heal yourself.

1: i was escaping becouse it was a 2v1. You are not gonna kill shield spammers in medium if you can't cloak.
2: that hitted me more then once, i coudn't block it becouse they would have chased, coudn't dodge it beocuse you know. it HITS ANYWAY
3: i have 23k HP
4: that *** needs to be dodgiable.
5: skoria is a monster set, not a spammable skill, argument invalid.

Edit: i am full impen

Sorry I didn't read you are not a nb. The problem is that, I played all stam classes, you will die badly in medium if ur not a nb, maybe as sorc you can streak away, roll dodge on bow and run but as stamplar or dk you can just stand and die against decent players. The only thing that can keep you alive in medium are a healer and or troll king/pirate skeleton. Go heavy. Skoria is a set, not a skill that cost resources, so it's better than a spammable:). I asked bout your health because u uploaded just the wardens damage like it was a 1v1. Consider also that a warden that deals that damage and has high shield don't use an effective offensive ultimate (northern storm sucks if not for the mag passives). Dive is the only counter to perma roll and medium user but u will suck most of the time against a dk Permablock. Warden are counter to someone and can be countered by others, get over it people, you can't easily kill all classes and survive against all the others with any class, it's utopic balance that no game can archieve, there will always be a class that is better than another on 1v1 with a certain gear.

I won't go heavy becouse the meta says it. I'll complain till the meta is balanced

Don't ask for other classes nerf and make them more useless than already are, ask for medium armor buff. The game will never be balanced with all these sets and all the combo you can do with any class, one will always defeat one and suck against another

C0ndor

Btw nb sorc and dk has unblockable undodgable stun, the only stun that warden have is blockable and you can easily dodge it

Waffennacht

C0ndor wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

U got 12k health? If u took the deep fissure means that you was straight in front of him. Try not to. 6k cr compared to deep fissure means it critted for a lot, get some impen pieces/add some crit resistance in cp tree, will help a lot also against other classes burst. A mag dk can do exactly the same amount of dmg you showed here and in heavy armor if timed with skoria. Consider the full burst come every 3s so u got time to heal yourself.

1: i was escaping becouse it was a 2v1. You are not gonna kill shield spammers in medium if you can't cloak.
2: that hitted me more then once, i coudn't block it becouse they would have chased, coudn't dodge it beocuse you know. it HITS ANYWAY
3: i have 23k HP
4: that *** needs to be dodgiable.
5: skoria is a monster set, not a spammable skill, argument invalid.

Edit: i am full impen

Sorry I didn't read you are not a nb. The problem is that, I played all stam classes, you will die badly in medium if ur not a nb, maybe as sorc you can streak away, roll dodge on bow and run but as stamplar or dk you can just stand and die against decent players. The only thing that can keep you alive in medium are a healer and or troll king/pirate skeleton. Go heavy. Skoria is a set, not a skill that cost resources, so it's better than a spammable:). I asked bout your health because u uploaded just the wardens damage like it was a 1v1. Consider also that a warden that deals that damage and has high shield don't use an effective offensive ultimate (northern storm sucks if not for the mag passives). Dive is the only counter to perma roll and medium user but u will suck most of the time against a dk Permablock. Warden are counter to someone and can be countered by others, get over it people, you can't easily kill all classes and survive against all the others with any class, it's utopic balance that no game can archieve, there will always be a class that is better than another on 1v1 with a certain gear.

I won't go heavy becouse the meta says it. I'll complain till the meta is balanced

Don't ask for other classes nerf and make them more useless than already are, ask for medium armor buff. The game will never be balanced with all these sets and all the combo you can do with any class, one will always defeat one and suck against another

Medium armor has trouble with SA
Medium armor has trouble with Dive
Medium armor had trouble with Curse
Medium armor has the most trouble blocking

I'm more for buffing medium (crit resistance was a good idea imo)

DDuke

C0ndor wrote: »

Btw nb sorc and dk has unblockable undodgable stun, the only stun that warden have is blockable and you can easily dodge it

Besides Manifestation of Terror (which requires other player to step on the trap), all those CCs NB, Sorc & DK have are actually "stamina drains" rather than CCs as they incur a GCD on the player casting them as well.

A good opponent will CC break & roll dodge/block/heal before any further burst lands after Fear, Fossilize or Rune Cage, hence there's no real effect on the fight besides draining the opponent's stamina.


The power of delayed CC such as the Shalks & Manifestation of Terror (actually the better fear morph) is that you can line up burst with it without having to worry about GCD & opponent's reaction time.

Another point worth noting is that Fear & Rune Cage deal no dmg at all, while Fossilize deals only small dmg - where as Shalks deal enormous amount of dmg.


Whether you can dodge them or not also has a lot to do with your opponent & how good he/she is at aiming them (much like templar Sweeps/Jabs).

SodanTok

DDuke wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Btw nb sorc and dk has unblockable undodgable stun, the only stun that warden have is blockable and you can easily dodge it

Besides Manifestation of Terror (which requires other player to step on the trap), all those CCs NB, Sorc & DK have are actually "stamina drains" rather than CCs as they incur a GCD on the player casting them as well.

A good opponent will CC break & roll dodge/block/heal before any further burst lands after Fear, Fossilize or Rune Cage, hence there's no real effect on the fight besides draining the opponent's stamina.


The power of delayed CC such as the Shalks & Manifestation of Terror (actually the better fear morph) is that you can line up burst with it without having to worry about GCD & opponent's reaction time.

Another point worth noting is that Fear & Rune Cage deal no dmg at all, while Fossilize deals only small dmg - where as Shalks deal enormous amount of dmg.


Whether you can dodge them or not also has a lot to do with your opponent & how good he/she is at aiming them (much like templar Sweeps/Jabs).

Cyrodiil does not allow even godly players to break CCs that fast. Fear literally guarantees ~2sec of CC

DDuke

SodanTok wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Btw nb sorc and dk has unblockable undodgable stun, the only stun that warden have is blockable and you can easily dodge it

Besides Manifestation of Terror (which requires other player to step on the trap), all those CCs NB, Sorc & DK have are actually "stamina drains" rather than CCs as they incur a GCD on the player casting them as well.

A good opponent will CC break & roll dodge/block/heal before any further burst lands after Fear, Fossilize or Rune Cage, hence there's no real effect on the fight besides draining the opponent's stamina.


The power of delayed CC such as the Shalks & Manifestation of Terror (actually the better fear morph) is that you can line up burst with it without having to worry about GCD & opponent's reaction time.

Another point worth noting is that Fear & Rune Cage deal no dmg at all, while Fossilize deals only small dmg - where as Shalks deal enormous amount of dmg.


Whether you can dodge them or not also has a lot to do with your opponent & how good he/she is at aiming them (much like templar Sweeps/Jabs).

Cyrodiil does not allow even godly players to break CCs that fast. Fear literally guarantees ~2sec of CC

That's why I never play on prime time. When there's less lag, CC break works & keyboards and chairs won't get broken.

Waffennacht

SodanTok wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Btw nb sorc and dk has unblockable undodgable stun, the only stun that warden have is blockable and you can easily dodge it

Besides Manifestation of Terror (which requires other player to step on the trap), all those CCs NB, Sorc & DK have are actually "stamina drains" rather than CCs as they incur a GCD on the player casting them as well.

A good opponent will CC break & roll dodge/block/heal before any further burst lands after Fear, Fossilize or Rune Cage, hence there's no real effect on the fight besides draining the opponent's stamina.


The power of delayed CC such as the Shalks & Manifestation of Terror (actually the better fear morph) is that you can line up burst with it without having to worry about GCD & opponent's reaction time.

Another point worth noting is that Fear & Rune Cage deal no dmg at all, while Fossilize deals only small dmg - where as Shalks deal enormous amount of dmg.


Whether you can dodge them or not also has a lot to do with your opponent & how good he/she is at aiming them (much like templar Sweeps/Jabs).

Cyrodiil does not allow even godly players to break CCs that fast. Fear literally guarantees ~2sec of CC

Well, unless you start hitting break at/prior to it happening. I get accused of cheating because of how fast I sometimes CC break. It's because I can usually preemptively CC break on a predictable opponent

Lexxypwns

Waffennacht wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Btw nb sorc and dk has unblockable undodgable stun, the only stun that warden have is blockable and you can easily dodge it

Besides Manifestation of Terror (which requires other player to step on the trap), all those CCs NB, Sorc & DK have are actually "stamina drains" rather than CCs as they incur a GCD on the player casting them as well.

A good opponent will CC break & roll dodge/block/heal before any further burst lands after Fear, Fossilize or Rune Cage, hence there's no real effect on the fight besides draining the opponent's stamina.


The power of delayed CC such as the Shalks & Manifestation of Terror (actually the better fear morph) is that you can line up burst with it without having to worry about GCD & opponent's reaction time.

Another point worth noting is that Fear & Rune Cage deal no dmg at all, while Fossilize deals only small dmg - where as Shalks deal enormous amount of dmg.


Whether you can dodge them or not also has a lot to do with your opponent & how good he/she is at aiming them (much like templar Sweeps/Jabs).

Cyrodiil does not allow even godly players to break CCs that fast. Fear literally guarantees ~2sec of CC

Well, unless you start hitting break at/prior to it happening. I get accused of cheating because of how fast I sometimes CC break. It's because I can usually preemptively CC break on a predictable opponent

You really need to CC break when you see the opponent cast a CC not when it renders you as CC'ed. As soon as that NB shrugs his shoulder at me I've already hit break free and I'm back on offense

C0ndor

DDuke wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Btw nb sorc and dk has unblockable undodgable stun, the only stun that warden have is blockable and you can easily dodge it

Besides Manifestation of Terror (which requires other player to step on the trap), all those CCs NB, Sorc & DK have are actually "stamina drains" rather than CCs as they incur a GCD on the player casting them as well.

A good opponent will CC break & roll dodge/block/heal before any further burst lands after Fear, Fossilize or Rune Cage, hence there's no real effect on the fight besides draining the opponent's stamina.


The power of delayed CC such as the Shalks & Manifestation of Terror (actually the better fear morph) is that you can line up burst with it without having to worry about GCD & opponent's reaction time.

Another point worth noting is that Fear & Rune Cage deal no dmg at all, while Fossilize deals only small dmg - where as Shalks deal enormous amount of dmg.


Whether you can dodge them or not also has a lot to do with your opponent & how good he/she is at aiming them (much like templar Sweeps/Jabs).

U can use the cc to be sure to land your timed burst damage and make sure the target will not block it or dodge it. You can time meteor/leap with inferno and whip with a well placed pietrify, you can't on a warden, cause you can easily dodge half of the burst and don't have an "easy" stun and you have to trade an offensive ulti for northern storm (and loose 8% max mag) or the trees. warden is not op or easy win against good players

Skander

Don't get out of topic, we are discussing dive. One thing at a time

AverageJo3Gam3r

Dive isn't the issue with wardens. Trees are. The correct response to dive spam is to apply pressure because it's slow. But trees protect the warden from pressure.

Comparing dive to dark flare is nonsensical. Wardens have shalks and dive as the only pvp viable skills (maybe fetchers but they tick super slowly). In addition to flare, templars have sweeps, power of the light, radiant, vampires bane, toppling charge, and javelin that are all pvp viable.

C0ndor

It's not ot, we're talking about undodgable skills and I talked about undodgable skills, not spammable but in the right way more useful

Sneaky-Snurr

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Waffennacht

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, then how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Darkflare does a lot, and Shards... da heck? There's a lot more wrong with shards apart from it's projectile speed.

Dive just shows a symptom of Medium armor's weakness, Dive itself isn't OP because it can't be roll dodged, Every undodgeable ability/effect preys upon medium's squishiness

SodanTok

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Not to call you same name you called him, but it would fit on someone that thinks the sole reason of dive undodgeability is... being slow. And I know they said it during the eso live. You need half a brain to figure out dive being slow is what allows it to be undodgeable, not the reason.

Hutch679

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Btw nb sorc and dk has unblockable undodgable stun, the only stun that warden have is blockable and you can easily dodge it

Besides Manifestation of Terror (which requires other player to step on the trap), all those CCs NB, Sorc & DK have are actually "stamina drains" rather than CCs as they incur a GCD on the player casting them as well.

A good opponent will CC break & roll dodge/block/heal before any further burst lands after Fear, Fossilize or Rune Cage, hence there's no real effect on the fight besides draining the opponent's stamina.


The power of delayed CC such as the Shalks & Manifestation of Terror (actually the better fear morph) is that you can line up burst with it without having to worry about GCD & opponent's reaction time.

Another point worth noting is that Fear & Rune Cage deal no dmg at all, while Fossilize deals only small dmg - where as Shalks deal enormous amount of dmg.


Whether you can dodge them or not also has a lot to do with your opponent & how good he/she is at aiming them (much like templar Sweeps/Jabs).

Cyrodiil does not allow even godly players to break CCs that fast. Fear literally guarantees ~2sec of CC

Well, unless you start hitting break at/prior to it happening. I get accused of cheating because of how fast I sometimes CC break. It's because I can usually preemptively CC break on a predictable opponent

You really need to CC break when you see the opponent cast a CC not when it renders you as CC'ed. As soon as that NB shrugs his shoulder at me I've already hit break free and I'm back on offense

This. Some NB broke CC from my flame clench the second he was knocked back and was right back on top of me. That's just clever use of game mechanics and a good player.

C0ndor

Hutch679 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Btw nb sorc and dk has unblockable undodgable stun, the only stun that warden have is blockable and you can easily dodge it

Besides Manifestation of Terror (which requires other player to step on the trap), all those CCs NB, Sorc & DK have are actually "stamina drains" rather than CCs as they incur a GCD on the player casting them as well.

A good opponent will CC break & roll dodge/block/heal before any further burst lands after Fear, Fossilize or Rune Cage, hence there's no real effect on the fight besides draining the opponent's stamina.


The power of delayed CC such as the Shalks & Manifestation of Terror (actually the better fear morph) is that you can line up burst with it without having to worry about GCD & opponent's reaction time.

Another point worth noting is that Fear & Rune Cage deal no dmg at all, while Fossilize deals only small dmg - where as Shalks deal enormous amount of dmg.


Whether you can dodge them or not also has a lot to do with your opponent & how good he/she is at aiming them (much like templar Sweeps/Jabs).

Cyrodiil does not allow even godly players to break CCs that fast. Fear literally guarantees ~2sec of CC

Well, unless you start hitting break at/prior to it happening. I get accused of cheating because of how fast I sometimes CC break. It's because I can usually preemptively CC break on a predictable opponent

You really need to CC break when you see the opponent cast a CC not when it renders you as CC'ed. As soon as that NB shrugs his shoulder at me I've already hit break free and I'm back on offense

This. Some NB broke CC from my flame clench the second he was knocked back and was right back on top of me. That's just clever use of game mechanics and a good player.

Didn’t know you can do this honestly, but my perma lag probably will not allow me to do it (in vivec at least) btw I don’t see the problem of an undodgable spammable when other classes have undodgable unblockable stun, I will trade cr for that right now. Plz make cliff racer deal no damage but be an unblockable stun and I’ll do great things ^^

Sneaky-Snurr

SodanTok wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Not to call you same name you called him, but it would fit on someone that thinks the sole reason of dive undodgeability is... being slow. And I know they said it during the eso live. You need half a brain to figure out dive being slow is what allows it to be undodgeable, not the reason.

@SodanTok
That makes no sense at all, so by your logic, Snipe should be undodgable too?
You're implying that I am dumb but your reasoning makes 0 sense. You have no legitimate reason as to why dive should be undodgable. Like I said, those abilities I mentioned (including Snipe) have cast time and their projectiles are all just as slow as dive.
Guess you don't even have half a brain. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, then how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Darkflare does a lot, and Shards... da heck? There's a lot more wrong with shards apart from it's projectile speed.

Dive just shows a symptom of Medium armor's weakness, Dive itself isn't OP because it can't be roll dodged, Every undodgeable ability/effect preys upon medium's squishiness

@Waffennacht
Don't get me wrong. I'm super fine with undodgable abilities if they're AoE but Dive is a direct target damaging ability and it's just breathtakingly idiotic to make it undodgable.

And what about Snipe then? It doesn't hit as hard as shards and flare but its cast time is just as atrociously long as the other mentioned ones.

Waffennacht

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Not to call you same name you called him, but it would fit on someone that thinks the sole reason of dive undodgeability is... being slow. And I know they said it during the eso live. You need half a brain to figure out dive being slow is what allows it to be undodgeable, not the reason.

@SodanTok
That makes no sense at all, so by your logic, Snipe should be undodgable too?
You're implying that I am dumb but your reasoning makes 0 sense. You have no legitimate reason as to why dive should be undodgable. Like I said, those abilities I mentioned (including Snipe) have cast time and their projectiles are all just as slow as dive.
Guess you don't even have half a brain. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, then how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Darkflare does a lot, and Shards... da heck? There's a lot more wrong with shards apart from it's projectile speed.

Dive just shows a symptom of Medium armor's weakness, Dive itself isn't OP because it can't be roll dodged, Every undodgeable ability/effect preys upon medium's squishiness

@Waffennacht
Don't get me wrong. I'm super fine with undodgable abilities if they're AoE but Dive is a direct target damaging ability and it's just breathtakingly idiotic to make it undodgable.

And what about Snipe then? It doesn't hit as hard as shards and flare but its cast time is just as atrociously long as the other mentioned ones.

Keep in mind, Templar, Bow, Sorc, all have access to an instant non travel time direct damage ability too,. Warden does not.

Without a Weapon based instant ability that does decent damage, a warden will learn to hate the delay on Dive.

Sure against a medium armor build it's hella good, but when wanna finish off a resto user, that delay on dive let's them get back on their way.

If your Shalk, Dive, Combo doesn't kill em, spamming Pulse doesn't cut it as a finisher. Just something to keep in mind

C0ndor

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Not to call you same name you called him, but it would fit on someone that thinks the sole reason of dive undodgeability is... being slow. And I know they said it during the eso live. You need half a brain to figure out dive being slow is what allows it to be undodgeable, not the reason.

@SodanTok
That makes no sense at all, so by your logic, Snipe should be undodgable too?
You're implying that I am dumb but your reasoning makes 0 sense. You have no legitimate reason as to why dive should be undodgable. Like I said, those abilities I mentioned (including Snipe) have cast time and their projectiles are all just as slow as dive.
Guess you don't even have half a brain. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, then how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Darkflare does a lot, and Shards... da heck? There's a lot more wrong with shards apart from it's projectile speed.

Dive just shows a symptom of Medium armor's weakness, Dive itself isn't OP because it can't be roll dodged, Every undodgeable ability/effect preys upon medium's squishiness

@Waffennacht
Don't get me wrong. I'm super fine with undodgable abilities if they're AoE but Dive is a direct target damaging ability and it's just breathtakingly idiotic to make it undodgable.

And what about Snipe then? It doesn't hit as hard as shards and flare but its cast time is just as atrociously long as the other mentioned ones.

Make dive deal 0 damage and transform it in an undodgable unblockable cc like all other classes has

Sneaky-Snurr

Waffennacht wrote: »

Keep in mind, Templar, Bow, Sorc, all have access to an instant non travel time direct damage ability too,. Warden does not.

Without a Weapon based instant ability that does decent damage, a warden will learn to hate the delay on Dive.

Sure against a medium armor build it's hella good, but when wanna finish off a resto user, that delay on dive let's them get back on their way.

If your Shalk, Dive, Combo doesn't kill em, spamming Pulse doesn't cut it as a finisher. Just something to keep in mind

@Waffennacht
Happy to hear something that actually has concrete reasoning unlike some other poster here. >_>

In that sense I agree with you, though all I'm saying is the cast time and the projectile travel time for shards, flare and snipe are all very similar if not exactly the same and they are dodgable whilst Dive is instant but undodgable despite having a projectile travel time.
Seeing that you've reminded me that Warden doesn't have any non travel time single direct damage, I suppose having Dive undodgable is somewhat acceptable in one sense or another.

SodanTok

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

The thing that really bothers me about @Wrobel is the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine for cliff racers to be undodgable just because he thinks the projectile is slow and thus easily dodged.

Well then Mr. Dumb, how do you explain crystal shards and dark flare? They're definitely slow and have cast time while Dive is instant.
I mean what the actual fark right?

I'm just wondering why he said what he said about the skill. Just make Dive dodgable god damn it.

Not to call you same name you called him, but it would fit on someone that thinks the sole reason of dive undodgeability is... being slow. And I know they said it during the eso live. You need half a brain to figure out dive being slow is what allows it to be undodgeable, not the reason.

@SodanTok
That makes no sense at all, so by your logic, Snipe should be undodgable too?
You're implying that I am dumb but your reasoning makes 0 sense. You have no legitimate reason as to why dive should be undodgable. Like I said, those abilities I mentioned (including Snipe) have cast time and their projectiles are all just as slow as dive.
Guess you don't even have half a brain. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What. How did you arrived at this I did imply you are dumb, but because you believe they made dive undodgeable because it is slow when it is painfully obvious they wanted to make dive undodgeable and because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could.

But when it comes to legitimate reasons why dive should be undodgeable. There are plenty. The biggest one is that warden cant fight against mobile dodge roll builds without it. Not that you would understand, you are very obviously very emotional about this subject. Probably got killed by mindless bird spam while were you trying next level tactic of... spamming dodge roll.

Valencer

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

SodanTok

Valencer wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

... because it is slow ability with relatively low damage, they could ...

I'm sorry, but it hits as hard as a surprise attack. Are you going to tell us next that SA is also an ability with "relatively low damage"? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but please don't make up nonsense.

Even without undodgeable birds magicka wardens arent that much worse off vs dodge roll spam compared to other classes. Magicka sorcs can only really get through dodge roll with Streak and Curse while mag wardens have Deep Fissure (which is undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time) and a number of DoTs/AoEs that also go through dodge roll. That's just 1 example.

Even if you had a point, your point would be that 1 class' *** design justifies making PvP a less pleasant experience for everyone else involved, which is just stupid.

Oh, if you consider surprise attack high damage then fine it is high damage. That's why I said relatively. Because it does not come even close to most mentioned slow abilities like dark flare snipe or frag.

I think you need to play warden. Or just overall l2p if you get it by that "undodgeable damage and a stun at the same time" too often. That stuff is harder to hit than actual dodgeable abilities vs dodge rolling builds (those that know what to do). You make it sound like guaranteed undodgeable CC, guaranteed (unblockable) high damage hit and guaranteed execute proc are somehow lesser than ability that you have to aim every 3s to hit someone and... swarm?

All classes make PVP less pleasant experience for everyone. Warden is just the newest one of the bunch. You and most people like you are the one that want to gut one class, because 10 of them in zerg you are running away from make it unpleasant experience. Treat the cause, not the symptom.

I highly recommend you to pickup mag warden, but not use birds. You will greatly enjoy the experience.

//edit:
I am not even interested in defending dive. I dont think they will ever make it dodgeable so nothing to gain from fighting over it. I just think it is stupid to think that it is undodgeable because it is slow (so all suggestion about making it fast and dodgeable just make me chuckle) or that it is some high damage ability that can even be compared to frag or snipe (posts saying they should make snipe undodgeable because it is also slow make me laught at intelligence of the poster tho I agree snipe and all other similar abilities should lose cast time)

amir412

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

Because they thought that reflecting a bird would look really stupid (and it would) and that the animation and travel time were so slow and obvious that it would never land if it was reflectable or dodgable. This was all said on an ESO live by Wrobel when they were showcasing the Warden before Morrowind launch.

that "slow" is giving warden insane burst potential/