How to balance Mag Sorcs ?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

For the love of god, we dont all agree.

Also, you poll is beyond useless. Th first three give no actual solutions, just buff this class or nerf that one, with the exception of the last option which discusses nerfing basically every sorc skill in the same poll result.

That is the point of sorc, they dont have the utility of a warden, the elusivenesss (or bombing capability) of a NB, the tankiness of a DK, or the heals of a templar. The have burst. Take this away and the class is useless. Yes I play a sorc, but I also think they are probably the easiest class to kill (except a true bomblade when you catch them).

Oreyn_Bearclaw

max_only wrote: »

None of these options appeal to me right now.


Sorcs are the favored son, no doubt, but I think that is because Zos has a unified vision of what the class should be. They have no idea what a nightblade should be which is why they keep messing about and smacking my babies with nerf bat. They have their golden trio in their head and nightblades are, to them, an annoying extra. If they were going for perfect all content, devs quite clearly envision a Dk tank, a Templar healer, Sorc ranged damage and (we assume) Nightblade melee damge.

Only problem is PvP that all falls apart. Dk executes? Nightblade, good enough in melee ranging to OP when proctato but 1to1 survival? Templar and Sorc got you covered in Pvp no matter how you build it. The only thing left for nightblades is to gank (which I refuse to do, AND which any class can do by crouching- I've been ganked by so many Sorcs this week)

It's a conundrum and I think the devs may need a fresh perspective on the direction they will take with the other 4 classes.
Either they need to stop trying to balance pvp and pve (who gets mad that they are clearing a dungeon too fast due to OP sorc dps?) Or they need to settle down on a vision.

Sorry for double, but what a biased post. They do have a vision for Nighblades, they are stealthy rouges, AKA bombers and gankers. Just like they have a vision of DKs as Tanks, Templars as Healers, Wardens with more utility than a swiss army knife, and yes, sorcs as bursty DPS. NBs are one of the strongest classes in the game right now in PVP if played effectively. If you dont like that direction, pick another class.

I will concede that sorc DPS was out of hand last patch, but it is nowhere near first place in PVE any longer.

Beardimus

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Honestly if Sorcs truly are this unstoppable god mode easy street just roll one and be done with it.

They ain't, and if you can't adapt to wipe one out then L2P. It takes differing tactics is all. Stop ramming the square brick in the round hole.

Betsararie

Grimick wrote: »

Yeah, I have a feeling that Mag Sorc is perceived as much stronger than it actually feels to play.

Having Full Health does not necessarily mean that a sorc isn't feeling pressure.
Implosion (which 95% of the time procs on dead men walking) is not nearly as useful as people seem to think.

A bad sorc is the easiest thing to kill in PvP, a good sorc one of the more difficult.
To me that says learn to play more than just about anything.

I agree with everything said here.

Bad sorcs are probably the easiest class to kill in pvp. Outside of shields, sorc's survivability is next to nothing.

Shields are the only way we can stay alive, and we do NOT have the best survivability in pvp, so no OP there.

I was just playing last night against an executioner spamming DK. Terrible player. But apparently what he's doing requires more skill than playing a sorc?

I've never once been killed by a sorc and thought it to be 'BS'. If I do die to a sorc (which is in the minority), it is because they are legitimately good players and have built well. Sorc is easy to pick up, but more difficult to master.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Vaoh wrote: »

Only one change should be made to Magicka Sorcs in PvP, which would be to disable their ability to execute targets passively at 15% health. It is RNG-based which is just bad design for something that determines whether someone dies or not. Besides this, it is plainly just bad players crying and trying to justify themselves being outplayed in PvP to feel better about their crushed egos.

Mag Sorcs have counters to their playstyle that I rarely even see people make use, such as rooting them while they face a wall to render Bolt Escape useless. Mag Sorcs also serve as the second most predictable/telegraphed class to fight as well, right behind Magicka Wardens. ESO even has sets that directly hard counter builds that rely heavily on shields which is a Mag Sorc's main defensive focus.

For PvE, they are actually in a perfect spot too. Both Pet and non-pet builds are strong and have their uses. They serve as a standard DPS to fill in spots once all of the necessary roles are fulfilled, meaning there can be a maximum of 4-5 Magicka Sorcs in a good raid composition, assuming no one chose Magicka NB, Magicka Templar, Magicka DK, or any Stamina class besides Warden. Next patch Mag Sorcs are indirectly nerfed (Ilambris nerf) while the other Magicka classes are buffed (improved critical bonuses better for NB/Temp), so the gap is now small enough to where Magicka Sorcs are not required and you can run on whatever you're best with..... just no Wardens.

@Vaoh

Here is my pushback. Let's read this "passive" execute:

"Whenever you deal Shock Damage you have a 6% chance to instantly disintegrate enemies under 15% Health, dealing [y] Shock Damage."

First, calling it passive is misleading. I must deal shock (or physical) damage when you are below 15% health to proc this, and even if I do, it has a 6% chance to actually work. How might a sorc deal shock damage? Admittedly there are several ways, but most of them will kill you anyway. If you are at 15% health, darn near any skill will kill you anyway. 9/10 times, you have already lost the fight.

Basically, I need to hit you with a shock skill in this very narrow window of health to get a 1 out of 20 change to do some extra damage.

I will concede that the sorc execute can appear very strong, as it has the potential to "steal" killing blows. But even that skill triggers at 20%, so there is still a window where the explosion from mages wrath (endless fury) can occur and have no chance at procing the passive. Every other skill I can think of that does shock damage is going to kill you anyway when your health is that low. If my destro ult procs a passive on you at 15%, news flash, you were dead anyway.

As to "stealing" KBs, sure I have got a plenty where I was not the person who really won that fight. That said, every time it happens, you were already in your grave.

MehrunesFlagon

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

agingerinohio wrote: »

Don't need an entire class because of pvp. They are fine. The class was designed to be a high damage DD. The other classes in PvP have the same potential of having very high burst as well. As for the shields, any magica class has the ability to shield stack. What I want to see (being someone who has primarily played magica characters and now experimenting with stamina) is better shielding options for stamina builds.

Stam classes have vigor which is a ridiculous heal. Shields paired with vigor would actually be OP/broken.

Mate

You lose your credibility when you equate the PVP potency or Vigor with noncrittable shields

Mate

That's not even what happened I was saying vigor paired with shields would be OP.

You don't even know what's going on hence why you are starting these threads.

Sorcs are not OP you desperately need to L2P. I believe in you.

Sorcs are OP in comparison to the other classes.


I can show multiple Recaps of Implosion hittin my 5\7 heavy armor tank taking a 6k implosion in my face with capped out resistances and food buffs up. That passive execute hit harder than an entire skill tree

And that's just a single aspect of it. Shields not being critable allow sorcs to spec full damage with no repercussions. Because Max Magic= Stronger shields.


And that's just straight facts Mate

By passive execute.

You mean the one that has a 6% chance to proc on lightning damage when under 15% hp?

Chances are if implosion procs your was going to die anyway or would of died from the last skills damage.

Chance

A very apt description where people at 15% have plenty of health to recover but instead get an excute from nowhere without any prompt hitting for 6k on even a full heavy armor build with maxed out resistances and food buff.

I'm appalled to think what others ( who aren't already mag sorcs too) have to deal with for different armors if I'm wearing Heavy with max resistances.


How does none of that register with you

So then it's like getting hit with mages wrath then.can't avoid it.

SirMewser

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

Alite wrote: »

People suggesting making shields crittable without any other changes to compensate for this change have honestly no idea what they are talking about.
Maybe read up on the logic of WHY they aren't crittable then come back here to debate, until then your suggestions are a waste of time to read.

And people wonder why ZoS "doesn't read their comments".

I think Sorcs are fine... Other classes need to be made more fun is all...

Joy_Division

Hurika wrote: »

Shield absorbs 50% of inc damage, the other goes to health. Avoids perma protecting health bar - have to actually heal to stay alive.

The % I think is a too high, but that's not a bad idea and does still offer a means to attack even a shield stack sorc.

Edit: Now that I think about it, a sorc having no heal makes this mechanic a bit too problematic.

max_only

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

None of these options appeal to me right now.


Sorcs are the favored son, no doubt, but I think that is because Zos has a unified vision of what the class should be. They have no idea what a nightblade should be which is why they keep messing about and smacking my babies with nerf bat. They have their golden trio in their head and nightblades are, to them, an annoying extra. If they were going for perfect all content, devs quite clearly envision a Dk tank, a Templar healer, Sorc ranged damage and (we assume) Nightblade melee damge.

Only problem is PvP that all falls apart. Dk executes? Nightblade, good enough in melee ranging to OP when proctato but 1to1 survival? Templar and Sorc got you covered in Pvp no matter how you build it. The only thing left for nightblades is to gank (which I refuse to do, AND which any class can do by crouching- I've been ganked by so many Sorcs this week)

It's a conundrum and I think the devs may need a fresh perspective on the direction they will take with the other 4 classes.
Either they need to stop trying to balance pvp and pve (who gets mad that they are clearing a dungeon too fast due to OP sorc dps?) Or they need to settle down on a vision.

Sorry for double, but what a biased post. They do have a vision for Nighblades, they are stealthy rouges, AKA bombers and gankers. Just like they have a vision of DKs as Tanks, Templars as Healers, Wardens with more utility than a swiss army knife, and yes, sorcs as bursty DPS. NBs are one of the strongest classes in the game right now in PVP if played effectively. If you dont like that direction, pick another class.

I will concede that sorc DPS was out of hand last patch, but it is nowhere near first place in PVE any longer.

Your feelings are valid. I know I'm not biased, but you don't know me so *shrug*. I don't pvp so to me, I have no problem with Sorcerers having a lot of damage. Zos doesn't have a vision that nightblades are stealthy rogue gankers and bombers, if they did they wouldn't keep carving away at the sneak and cloak skills/bonuses. If nightblades were meant to be rogues, why are the bulk of their skills magicka based? Believe me, when I first installed this game I believed as you do, that nightblades were rogues. I thought "okay medium armor, dagger and axe for the bleed, stamina stacking, get in there, burst and cloak away to drop aggro". Thats what I honestly believed. I was wrong, all my skills scaled with magika. Several patches later.... the best nightblades still use staves. Also, recently they literally said they wanted to give stamina nightblades more survivability outside of ganking. Why? If they are stealthy rogue dps like you claim Zos wants them to be, why is Zos cutting the stealthiness and ganking bonus and adding survival?

Furthermore, even though Zos has a vision of Dk tanks, Templar healers and Sorcerer dps, they also "promised" that all classes will be ABLE to do the three different roles if the player really wanted. Don't deny that in the original passives of each class is some unique boon to a different roles than is obvious. Dk healers, dk dps, sorc tanks, sorc healers, Templar tanks, Templar dps... all these exist and can do the content. Therefore I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation to play a nightblade like a tank or a healer. (Don't bring up the obvious veteran trials by competitive guilds, there will always be a mathematical Best in every game no matter what the devs do).

Irylia

Hmmm yes.

Except I can survive just the same by using only hard + healing ward as I could if I used harness + hard + healing.
Adding another ward isn't going to prevent me from dying and the "stacking" is unnecessary because they are 6 seconds. Shield stacking was an issue when they were 20. Now you can either time your own burst around shield downtime or constant pressure until the sorc crumples/burns mag from costly wards with low sustain and even high sustain.
Healing 3.6 k mag
Hard 3k mag
Harness 3.9
Mines 5.3
Streak 3k scaling

These defensive abilities also need to be recanted frequently and that's a huge strain on resources and also a players ability to manage bar flicking from damage to mitigation. Mess up or get caught without a ward and you will most likely die to a competent player. Wards are pretty good 1v1 but meh vs x enemies.

I'd also say over 90% of sorcs running around are chump change ap.

But please, present your argument and I'll respond.

TrueGreenSmoker

If shields can be crit give mag sorcs atleast their old shield back 20-30K shields because people already do so much damage and on top of that a crit. Also don't forget sorc's ain't the only one's using shields so other classes get f***ed

br0steen

Anyone have any pepper to go with all this salt?

NordJitsu

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

MagSorc could use some buffs to Physical and Spell resistances.

Damage is fine.

I have a MagSorc and a StamTemplar. The Templar is much easier to play in PvP because he does pretty much just as much damage as the MagSorc but I don't need to sustain with damage shields or evade with Bolt Escape. I can focus on my skills and time on damage.

MagSorc has the highest skill cap.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

max_only wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

None of these options appeal to me right now.


Sorcs are the favored son, no doubt, but I think that is because Zos has a unified vision of what the class should be. They have no idea what a nightblade should be which is why they keep messing about and smacking my babies with nerf bat. They have their golden trio in their head and nightblades are, to them, an annoying extra. If they were going for perfect all content, devs quite clearly envision a Dk tank, a Templar healer, Sorc ranged damage and (we assume) Nightblade melee damge.

Only problem is PvP that all falls apart. Dk executes? Nightblade, good enough in melee ranging to OP when proctato but 1to1 survival? Templar and Sorc got you covered in Pvp no matter how you build it. The only thing left for nightblades is to gank (which I refuse to do, AND which any class can do by crouching- I've been ganked by so many Sorcs this week)

It's a conundrum and I think the devs may need a fresh perspective on the direction they will take with the other 4 classes.
Either they need to stop trying to balance pvp and pve (who gets mad that they are clearing a dungeon too fast due to OP sorc dps?) Or they need to settle down on a vision.

Sorry for double, but what a biased post. They do have a vision for Nighblades, they are stealthy rouges, AKA bombers and gankers. Just like they have a vision of DKs as Tanks, Templars as Healers, Wardens with more utility than a swiss army knife, and yes, sorcs as bursty DPS. NBs are one of the strongest classes in the game right now in PVP if played effectively. If you dont like that direction, pick another class.

I will concede that sorc DPS was out of hand last patch, but it is nowhere near first place in PVE any longer.

Your feelings are valid. I know I'm not biased, but you don't know me so *shrug*. I don't pvp so to me, I have no problem with Sorcerers having a lot of damage. Zos doesn't have a vision that nightblades are stealthy rogue gankers and bombers, if they did they wouldn't keep carving away at the sneak and cloak skills/bonuses. If nightblades were meant to be rogues, why are the bulk of their skills magicka based? Believe me, when I first installed this game I believed as you do, that nightblades were rogues. I thought "okay medium armor, dagger and axe for the bleed, stamina stacking, get in there, burst and cloak away to drop aggro". Thats what I honestly believed. I was wrong, all my skills scaled with magika. Several patches later.... the best nightblades still use staves. Also, recently they literally said they wanted to give stamina nightblades more survivability outside of ganking. Why? If they are stealthy rogue dps like you claim Zos wants them to be, why is Zos cutting the stealthiness and ganking bonus and adding survival?

Furthermore, even though Zos has a vision of Dk tanks, Templar healers and Sorcerer dps, they also "promised" that all classes will be ABLE to do the three different roles if the player really wanted. Don't deny that in the original passives of each class is some unique boon to a different roles than is obvious. Dk healers, dk dps, sorc tanks, sorc healers, Templar tanks, Templar dps... all these exist and can do the content. Therefore I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation to play a nightblade like a tank or a healer. (Don't bring up the obvious veteran trials by competitive guilds, there will always be a mathematical Best in every game no matter what the devs do).

Agree with parts, disagree with others. If you dont think nightblades can be a good rouge class, to be honest, you have never fought a good one. Cloak is an amazingly powerful tool when used correctly and no class can gank as well as a NB. Whether you play magic or stam, you can gank just about anyone in cryo if you do it correctly. Just because you nerf a skill that is over performing, doesnt mean you have changed the vision for the class.

As to classes and their roles, of course all classes can play anything. That is a stated objective of theirs and is consistent with TES games. That said, if you want the best tank, you are going to play a DK, and if you want the best healer, you are going to likely play a templar. That doesnt mean you can't do both on another class.

Dont confuse the capability to play all roles on a single class with all classes doing all roles equally. If the later were true, then what's the point of classes?

IcyDeadPeople

Apherius wrote: »

• Nerf shield by making them unstackable will make us unable to use hardened ward + healing ward simultaneously
  ... and a lot of players will use the healing morph of pets ... this will result on a pile of thread about " Pets are healing to much !!! " " Pets are doing too much damage ! i take something like 1K damage ! OP OP OP " and " i can't target the players cause there is pets in front of him ! " of course these thread that should all deserve a " L2P " will get the support of all the sorcerer haters ... and 5 month later we will get criticable damage on our shields ... then the bastion star will be nerf ...

Maybe instead just slightly reduce the size of hardened ward. Do you really need more than 20-25k hardened ward in PVE? In PVP that would be 10-12k, and would still stack on top of healing ward or dampen magic if you want it bigger.

Currently when we have close to 50k magicka, hardened ward is massive tbh, and it scales on our offensive stat pool, so allows for very high damage and tankiness at the same time.

pieratsos

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

• Nerf shield by making them unstackable will make us unable to use hardened ward + healing ward simultaneously
  ... and a lot of players will use the healing morph of pets ... this will result on a pile of thread about " Pets are healing to much !!! " " Pets are doing too much damage ! i take something like 1K damage ! OP OP OP " and " i can't target the players cause there is pets in front of him ! " of course these thread that should all deserve a " L2P " will get the support of all the sorcerer haters ... and 5 month later we will get criticable damage on our shields ... then the bastion star will be nerf ...

Maybe instead just slightly reduce the size of hardened ward. Do you really need more than 20-25k hardened ward in PVE? In PVP that would be 10-12k, and would still stack on top of healing ward or dampen magic if you want it bigger.

Currently when we have close to 50k magicka, hardened ward is massive tbh, and it scales on our offensive stat pool, so allows for very high damage and tankiness at the same time.

Leave hardened ward alone. Its sorcs main defense. Shieldstacking is the issue not hardened ward. Shields shouldnt stack and then just work something with how healing ward + dampen/hardened work.

IcyDeadPeople

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

• Nerf shield by making them unstackable will make us unable to use hardened ward + healing ward simultaneously
  ... and a lot of players will use the healing morph of pets ... this will result on a pile of thread about " Pets are healing to much !!! " " Pets are doing too much damage ! i take something like 1K damage ! OP OP OP " and " i can't target the players cause there is pets in front of him ! " of course these thread that should all deserve a " L2P " will get the support of all the sorcerer haters ... and 5 month later we will get criticable damage on our shields ... then the bastion star will be nerf ...

Maybe instead just slightly reduce the size of hardened ward. Do you really need more than 20-25k hardened ward in PVE? In PVP that would be 10-12k, and would still stack on top of healing ward or dampen magic if you want it bigger.

Currently when we have close to 50k magicka, hardened ward is massive tbh, and it scales on our offensive stat pool, so allows for very high damage and tankiness at the same time.

Leave hardened ward alone. Its sorcs main defense. Shieldstacking is the issue not hardened ward. Shields shouldnt stack and then just work something with how healing ward + dampen/hardened work.

Stacking various shields is open to every class and each shield you cast, you are sacrificing significant resources as well as ability slot. Hardened ward however, scales on max magicka, so when we spec into max magicka sets, we end up with extremely large shield and high damage output at the same time.

Likely too extreme of a change, but I suppose if this ability scaled based on max health instead of max magicka (like blazing shield, igneous shield, healing ward and bone shield), it could open up more potential for sorc tank builds. People aren't complaining about sorc tanks with low damage output. They are complaining about us being tanky due to large shields and doing high burst damage at same time.

Otherwise, if it still scaled on max magicka but were reduced slightly in size, it could address these concerns but still be quite large and provide a lot of protection. I suppose capping out the shield around 20-25k in PVE when you have 50k magicka would still be more than enough for me, I mean this is more than doubling my health bar. That's still a lot bigger than dampen magic.

TheRealSniker

Slightly reduce the overall burst or damage or usage of Mag Sorc PVP goodies like (shields (make them crittable), streak (increase cost etc), implosion (disable it in PVP), endless fury (reduce the burst or time), curse (reduce the burst etc) or )something else BUT SPECIFIC ONLY TO PVP

Electrone_Magnus wrote: »

If you think mag sorc is easy mode and can't be killed why not play one yourself?

because choosing the easiest class ingame isnt fun, but playing against something that feels so unfair is not fun either

pieratsos

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

• Nerf shield by making them unstackable will make us unable to use hardened ward + healing ward simultaneously
  ... and a lot of players will use the healing morph of pets ... this will result on a pile of thread about " Pets are healing to much !!! " " Pets are doing too much damage ! i take something like 1K damage ! OP OP OP " and " i can't target the players cause there is pets in front of him ! " of course these thread that should all deserve a " L2P " will get the support of all the sorcerer haters ... and 5 month later we will get criticable damage on our shields ... then the bastion star will be nerf ...

Maybe instead just slightly reduce the size of hardened ward. Do you really need more than 20-25k hardened ward in PVE? In PVP that would be 10-12k, and would still stack on top of healing ward or dampen magic if you want it bigger.

Currently when we have close to 50k magicka, hardened ward is massive tbh, and it scales on our offensive stat pool, so allows for very high damage and tankiness at the same time.

Leave hardened ward alone. Its sorcs main defense. Shieldstacking is the issue not hardened ward. Shields shouldnt stack and then just work something with how healing ward + dampen/hardened work.

Stacking various shields is open to every class and each shield you cast, you are sacrificing significant resources as well as ability slot. Hardened ward however, scales on max magicka, so when we spec into max magicka sets, we end up with extremely large shield and high damage output at the same time.

Likely too extreme of a change, but I suppose if this ability scaled based on max health instead of max magicka (like blazing shield, igneous shield, healing ward and bone shield), it could open up more potential for sorc tank builds. People aren't complaining about sorc tanks with low damage output. They are complaining about us being tanky due to large shields and doing high burst damage at same time.

Otherwise, if it still scaled on max magicka but were reduced slightly in size, it could address these concerns but still be quite large and provide a lot of protection. I suppose capping out the shield around 20-25k in PVE when you have 50k magicka would still be more than enough for me, I mean this is more than doubling my health bar. That's still a lot bigger than dampen magic.

Making hardened scaling with max hp. Seriously? Do you even PVP? So your suggestion is to make the shield useless.

Comparing hardened with blazing and igneous is stupid and shows that u lack basic knowledge on how the classes work. When was the last time you saw a templar or DK with normal hp bar using blazing or igneous as main defence. Blazing shield and igneous are not main defences for their respective classes. They are secondary defence/utility abilities. How about dragon blood scaling off max hp. Do you remember it? It was trash for over 2 years. Or maybe make breath of life scaling off max hp. How would that go down for templars? Those 2 heals are main defences for their classes. Thats why they scale with their main stats. How about making rally and vigor scaling of max hp. Stam builds become prety much trash.

Just think before dropping a suggestion. Sorc's main defense is shield. They have nothing else. They dont have burst heals, block mechanics, evasion etc. They rely on shields. If you take their shield away they have nothing else. Hardened ward is fine. It doesnt need a nerf. Learn to identify the problem. The problem is stacking dampen/harness on top hardened assuming you can sustain it. Have you ever seen people complaining about magblades stacking ridiculous shields in PVP? No. That should tell you what the issue is.

IcyDeadPeople

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

• Nerf shield by making them unstackable will make us unable to use hardened ward + healing ward simultaneously
  ... and a lot of players will use the healing morph of pets ... this will result on a pile of thread about " Pets are healing to much !!! " " Pets are doing too much damage ! i take something like 1K damage ! OP OP OP " and " i can't target the players cause there is pets in front of him ! " of course these thread that should all deserve a " L2P " will get the support of all the sorcerer haters ... and 5 month later we will get criticable damage on our shields ... then the bastion star will be nerf ...

Maybe instead just slightly reduce the size of hardened ward. Do you really need more than 20-25k hardened ward in PVE? In PVP that would be 10-12k, and would still stack on top of healing ward or dampen magic if you want it bigger.

Currently when we have close to 50k magicka, hardened ward is massive tbh, and it scales on our offensive stat pool, so allows for very high damage and tankiness at the same time.

Leave hardened ward alone. Its sorcs main defense. Shieldstacking is the issue not hardened ward. Shields shouldnt stack and then just work something with how healing ward + dampen/hardened work.

Stacking various shields is open to every class and each shield you cast, you are sacrificing significant resources as well as ability slot. Hardened ward however, scales on max magicka, so when we spec into max magicka sets, we end up with extremely large shield and high damage output at the same time.

Likely too extreme of a change, but I suppose if this ability scaled based on max health instead of max magicka (like blazing shield, igneous shield, healing ward and bone shield), it could open up more potential for sorc tank builds. People aren't complaining about sorc tanks with low damage output. They are complaining about us being tanky due to large shields and doing high burst damage at same time.

Otherwise, if it still scaled on max magicka but were reduced slightly in size, it could address these concerns but still be quite large and provide a lot of protection. I suppose capping out the shield around 20-25k in PVE when you have 50k magicka would still be more than enough for me, I mean this is more than doubling my health bar. That's still a lot bigger than dampen magic.

Making hardened scaling with max hp. Seriously? Do you even PVP? So your suggestion is to make the shield useless.

Comparing hardened with blazing and igneous is stupid and shows that u lack basic knowledge on how the classes work. When was the last time you saw a templar or DK with normal hp bar using blazing or igneous as main defence. Blazing shield and igneous are not main defences for their respective classes. They are secondary defence/utility abilities. How about dragon blood scaling off max hp. Do you remember it? It was trash for over 2 years. Or maybe make breath of life scaling off max hp. How would that go down for templars? Those 2 heals are main defences for their classes. Thats why they scale with their main stats. How about making rally and vigor scaling of max hp. Stam builds become prety much trash.

Just think before dropping a suggestion. Sorc's main defense is shield. They have nothing else. They dont have burst heals, block mechanics, evasion etc. They rely on shields. If you take their shield away they have nothing else. Hardened ward is fine. It doesnt need a nerf. Learn to identify the problem. The problem is stacking dampen/harness on top hardened assuming you can sustain it. Have you ever seen people complaining about magblades stacking ridiculous shields in PVP? No. That should tell you what the issue is.

I don't know about you, but hardened ward maxing out around 20-25k in PVE / 10-12k in PVP would still be quite large enough for me. If I ever want a bigger shield for whatever reason, it could still be stacked with dampen magic and/or healing ward.

pieratsos

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

• Nerf shield by making them unstackable will make us unable to use hardened ward + healing ward simultaneously
  ... and a lot of players will use the healing morph of pets ... this will result on a pile of thread about " Pets are healing to much !!! " " Pets are doing too much damage ! i take something like 1K damage ! OP OP OP " and " i can't target the players cause there is pets in front of him ! " of course these thread that should all deserve a " L2P " will get the support of all the sorcerer haters ... and 5 month later we will get criticable damage on our shields ... then the bastion star will be nerf ...

Maybe instead just slightly reduce the size of hardened ward. Do you really need more than 20-25k hardened ward in PVE? In PVP that would be 10-12k, and would still stack on top of healing ward or dampen magic if you want it bigger.

Currently when we have close to 50k magicka, hardened ward is massive tbh, and it scales on our offensive stat pool, so allows for very high damage and tankiness at the same time.

Leave hardened ward alone. Its sorcs main defense. Shieldstacking is the issue not hardened ward. Shields shouldnt stack and then just work something with how healing ward + dampen/hardened work.

Stacking various shields is open to every class and each shield you cast, you are sacrificing significant resources as well as ability slot. Hardened ward however, scales on max magicka, so when we spec into max magicka sets, we end up with extremely large shield and high damage output at the same time.

Likely too extreme of a change, but I suppose if this ability scaled based on max health instead of max magicka (like blazing shield, igneous shield, healing ward and bone shield), it could open up more potential for sorc tank builds. People aren't complaining about sorc tanks with low damage output. They are complaining about us being tanky due to large shields and doing high burst damage at same time.

Otherwise, if it still scaled on max magicka but were reduced slightly in size, it could address these concerns but still be quite large and provide a lot of protection. I suppose capping out the shield around 20-25k in PVE when you have 50k magicka would still be more than enough for me, I mean this is more than doubling my health bar. That's still a lot bigger than dampen magic.

Making hardened scaling with max hp. Seriously? Do you even PVP? So your suggestion is to make the shield useless.

Comparing hardened with blazing and igneous is stupid and shows that u lack basic knowledge on how the classes work. When was the last time you saw a templar or DK with normal hp bar using blazing or igneous as main defence. Blazing shield and igneous are not main defences for their respective classes. They are secondary defence/utility abilities. How about dragon blood scaling off max hp. Do you remember it? It was trash for over 2 years. Or maybe make breath of life scaling off max hp. How would that go down for templars? Those 2 heals are main defences for their classes. Thats why they scale with their main stats. How about making rally and vigor scaling of max hp. Stam builds become prety much trash.

Just think before dropping a suggestion. Sorc's main defense is shield. They have nothing else. They dont have burst heals, block mechanics, evasion etc. They rely on shields. If you take their shield away they have nothing else. Hardened ward is fine. It doesnt need a nerf. Learn to identify the problem. The problem is stacking dampen/harness on top hardened assuming you can sustain it. Have you ever seen people complaining about magblades stacking ridiculous shields in PVP? No. That should tell you what the issue is.

I don't know about you, but hardened ward maxing out around 20-25k in PVE / 10-12k in PVP would still be quite large enough for me. If I ever want a bigger shield for whatever reason, it could still be stacked with dampen magic and/or healing ward.

If you have issues with big shields in PVE then suggest battle spirit to affect shields in PVE. Destroying a class defining skill by making it scale of hp isnt the way to go.

Having 50k+ magicka and getting ridiculously big shields isnt an issue with sorcs. Its an issue with gear sets that allow that playstyle in the first place. And with 50k+ magicka, dampen is also an incredibly big shield. So again its not an issue with hardened ward.

10-12k hardened ward is the average shield size of normal sorcs and by itself its fine. The problem is when dampen/harness stacks on top and u get to 20k shields. Shieldstacking is the issue in PVP. Not the shield.

Like i said learn to identify the issue before asking for random nerfs all over the place.

Waffennacht

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Y'all play in CP

Even at 44k+ in No CP a shield is not reaching more than 7-8k

NordJitsu

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

I'm still disappointed that there aren't any poll options for buffing Sorcs.

ak_pvp

Nerf Mag Sorcs a bit while slightly buffing up other classes

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

ITT crybaby sorcs upset that the FOTY class might get nerfed.

Sorcs have the best;

Mobility, sustain, damage (burst and sustained), 2 executes, tankiness and decent healing.

Shields need to be crittable, or have a penalty on stacking them somehow like increased cost, or diminishing returns. And the implosion passive needs to be changed, removed or given to DKs.

Wow. Just wow.

Dozends of complains that Implosion is oh so unfair because you would have survived 100% when it wouldn't have procced. Dozends of posts from actual sorcs that rather trade that passive for something reliable. And I came to the conclusion that Implosion might actual should be removed from the game.

But then there is this guy who first let's shine through how OP implosion is but then will keep it for some other class. Either it is OP and should be dealt with or it's not and can leave as it is.

The only time I think it's a problem is when it procs from a DoT that wouldn't have killed someone below 3.5k health or whatever 15% is on your char. That might is an issue. But when it procs from wrath or pulse you would be done anyway. So instead of removing this we give it to a class that throws dots around to no end? Will definitely make the teardrops stop.

BTW I would even faster trade Implosion for an stamina based class execute or spammable. Sucks to completely build your playstyle around what options your two weapons gives you.

And surely, make shields crittable. But only if they take armor mitigation into account AND can crit themself. Or remove shieldstacking and remove streak/BoL fatigue as well.

You know I said changed as well.

Also if DKs have it, it wouldn't be as OP as they couldn't have 2 executes together.
I am also all for removing streak fatigue and beefing shields to make sorcs the lightning fast class and less tanky.

ak_pvp

Nerf Mag Sorcs a bit while slightly buffing up other classes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

For the love of god, we dont all agree.

Also, you poll is beyond useless. Th first three give no actual solutions, just buff this class or nerf that one, with the exception of the last option which discusses nerfing basically every sorc skill in the same poll result.

That is the point of sorc, they dont have the utility of a warden, the elusivenesss (or bombing capability) of a NB, the tankiness of a DK, or the heals of a templar. The have burst. Take this away and the class is useless. Yes I play a sorc, but I also think they are probably the easiest class to kill (except a true bomblade when you catch them).

For pvp sorcs have utility in negate, and mines. Cc with frontal root. They have streak and mines to be elusive. Shields for tanking, and pet of life for burst heals.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Hurika wrote: »

Shield absorbs 50% of inc damage, the other goes to health. Avoids perma protecting health bar - have to actually heal to stay alive.

The % I think is a too high, but that's not a bad idea and does still offer a means to attack even a shield stack sorc.

Edit: Now that I think about it, a sorc having no heal makes this mechanic a bit too problematic.

Free hot surge or pet of life/resto staff stuff?

Apherius

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

The sorc have pets for heal . We know.

If the shields are nerfed are make unstackable we will be obblige to use the heal morph of the pets ... of course this could be fix the " shield problem " but as everyone know ... the sorc is ALWAYS TO OP for someone ... .
i'm 100% sure that if they make the shields unstackable , the next nerf sorc thread will be about the pet who heal too much or who make the caster impossible to target.

Biro123

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

I'm slightly dumbfounded..

After seeing some other recent posts from the OP, it seems he doesn't have a lot of knowledge about the game yet - and has only just passed cp160.

I've always thought my sorc build was great at exploding potatoes, but poor against good players.. I guess this explains where many of the 'nerf sorcs' threads come from.

idk.. I tend to keep quiet and listen when the subject is one I know nothing about...

Lord_Wrath

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Considering how squishy sorcs are without a shield, i dont think nerfing shields will provide solutions.

Im very experienced yet I have my fair share of defeats. Every class has its macroers, ridiculously good players, experienced and not so experienced players. Personally I think there is just too much damage all around for all classes. At some point we have all died so fast that before the game can register youre dead, youre trying to heal and nothing happens.

Its all about skill. When BIS builds become too common and outshine other variations we think nerf it instead of looking beyond.

Rohaus

Nerf Mag Sorcs to the same level as other classes

The kind of damage a mag Sorc can do should be classified as glass cannon... they are anything but.

olsborg

Shieldstacking and restoult is the only thing that needs to get nerfed, not sorcs specifcly.