How to balance Mag Sorcs ?

DeHei

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

I dont see the problem at Magicka Sorcs. They have skills for every situation, exspecially in PvP. Magicka Warden are actually as strong as Magicka Sorcs (only in PvP). Stamina Nightblades are very strong too. In PvP you feel the very good single target damage from Nightblades. In PvE Mag Sorcs and stam Nightblades are superior as DDs, its just a fact. Sorcs have good single and area damage, but its ok for me.
Solution to fix that cant be several nerfs for Sorcs, until they all are on same niveau!
Magicka Warden need actually more rebalancing in PvP.. but how make it different to PvE?

The only fair solution would be buffing other classes. There are many ideas here in Forum how to buff them and what that classes need. I really hope for it

Chilly-McFreeze

Vaoh wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Only one change should be made to Magicka Sorcs in PvP, which would be to disable their ability to execute targets passively at 15% health. It is RNG-based which is just bad design for something that determines whether someone dies or not. Besides this, it is plainly just bad players crying and trying to justify themselves being outplayed in PvP to feel better about their crushed egos.

How about no? Would be no good design either to treat one class different. Does anyone complain about that passive from another class with grants them a 25% chance of a free dmg proc every half second while using their class spam, gap closer, ranged stun or aoe during the whole fight, not just in that tiny execute range? That sums up as well

You know how useless implosion is. The target would have died anyway since it needs actual damage done under that threshold. And that tiny proc chance not to mention.

Either change it to something reliable useful or leave it as it is. But don't put a handicap on one class only because pleps got mislead by their egos and that death recap.

Implosion is RNG-based to decide whether someone lives or dies..... no one likes this lol.

I don't feel good when I get a kill because my passive procced on someone at low health about to cast Rally and deservingly survive. I feel like they got bsed, and can only laugh at how cheap the design feels.

Sorry, but I think it is important to not put a blanket treatment across classes to balance. A blanket mentality for balancing ruins everything. In this specific case, I think most everyone would be okay with a passive being PvE-specific with a separate PvP effect.

The only reason this isn't the case right now is because Wrobel doesn't believe in giving skills separate PvP and PvE functionalities LOL they forgot Teleport Strike...

Hard to push that view through in a game that is floated with rng. Class passives, weapon line passives, countless sets. Even crit in general. But sure, this one is a problem, right? Again, I'm not against a change to implosion. I just think it's...strange...to deactivate something entirely without giving compensation.

Also. 15% of 25k is 3,75k. 6% chance to proc on dmg. Means he would drop dead on wrath, curse, frag or even force pulse. It's so situational.

Apherius

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

How the hell to you want to balance with a nerf ...

the difference between the tanking of the sorc and the dk tanking is bigger that the difference between the dps of the sorcerer and the dps of the dk ...

TequilaFire

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Implosion is so minor, I can't believe players are this worked up by it.

Work on improving your builds. Implosion will not be the deciding factor in 95% of your fights.

I don't find this to be true with most sorcs spamming mages wrath to kill steal.
Mages's wrath needs balancing just as RD finally got adjusted.

Where is killstealing an issue outside of BG? Would it make more sense to alter BG scoring than to nerf a class? Do you complain that a mT stole your kill when you defend a keep? This is less an issue with wrath or executes in general than with bad scoring design.

You don't see it coming or the sorc who applies it most of the time in Cyro so when you are busy melee fighting another player a sorc standing at the back of the zerg (sound familiar?) kills me ending the fight I was trying to have with the first player.
So effectively the sorc just stole a possible kill from my opponent or me from relative safety.
Reduce the range of wrath would help.

Chilly-McFreeze

TequilaFire wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Implosion is so minor, I can't believe players are this worked up by it.

Work on improving your builds. Implosion will not be the deciding factor in 95% of your fights.

I don't find this to be true with most sorcs spamming mages wrath to kill steal.
Mages's wrath needs balancing just as RD finally got adjusted.

Where is killstealing an issue outside of BG? Would it make more sense to alter BG scoring than to nerf a class? Do you complain that a mT stole your kill when you defend a keep? This is less an issue with wrath or executes in general than with bad scoring design.

You don't see it coming or the sorc who applies it most of the time in Cyro so when you are busy melee fighting another player a sorc standing at the back of the zerg (sound familiar?) kills me ending the fight I was trying to have with the first player.
So effectively the sorc just stole a possible kill from my opponent or me from relative safety.

What does that matter in cyro? People spamming skills / executes from back of the line is common and surely nothing sorc exclusive.

Vaoh

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Only one change should be made to Magicka Sorcs in PvP, which would be to disable their ability to execute targets passively at 15% health. It is RNG-based which is just bad design for something that determines whether someone dies or not. Besides this, it is plainly just bad players crying and trying to justify themselves being outplayed in PvP to feel better about their crushed egos.

How about no? Would be no good design either to treat one class different. Does anyone complain about that passive from another class with grants them a 25% chance of a free dmg proc every half second while using their class spam, gap closer, ranged stun or aoe during the whole fight, not just in that tiny execute range? That sums up as well

You know how useless implosion is. The target would have died anyway since it needs actual damage done under that threshold. And that tiny proc chance not to mention.

Either change it to something reliable useful or leave it as it is. But don't put a handicap on one class only because pleps got mislead by their egos and that death recap.

Implosion is RNG-based to decide whether someone lives or dies..... no one likes this lol.

I don't feel good when I get a kill because my passive procced on someone at low health about to cast Rally and deservingly survive. I feel like they got bsed, and can only laugh at how cheap the design feels.

Sorry, but I think it is important to not put a blanket treatment across classes to balance. A blanket mentality for balancing ruins everything. In this specific case, I think most everyone would be okay with a passive being PvE-specific with a separate PvP effect.

The only reason this isn't the case right now is because Wrobel doesn't believe in giving skills separate PvP and PvE functionalities LOL they forgot Teleport Strike...

Hard to push that view through in a game that is floated with rng. Class passives, weapon line passives, countless sets. Even crit in general. But sure, this one is a problem, right? Again, I'm not against a change to implosion. I just think it's...strange...to deactivate something entirely without giving compensation.

Also. 15% of 25k is 3,75k. 6% chance to proc on dmg. Means he would drop dead on wrath, curse, frag or even force pulse. It's so situational.

I specifically mentioned giving compensation via different PvE and PvP effects...... you PvP people seriously want to find someone to argue about -_-

The situational nature of this passive is why it is in need of change. Sure you could kill the enemy with an execute at that point, but they could also survive and heal a lot before you cast it which is actually quite likely in many situations especially against good players. This passive decides what happens based strictly on RNG.

Passives don't care about the Global Cooldown. This passive essentially reads "6% chance to automatically kill an enemy below 15% health". It's unblockable too, so unlike your actual attacks, this skill will always finish the job if it goes off.

Just my own opinion on it. This passive is the singular outlier that has only negative effects on the PvP experience. Everyone I've ever spoken to seems to agree about this too. However, the issue remains as ZOS refusing to separatedly balance PvP and PvE, rather than this specific skill.

TequilaFire

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Implosion is so minor, I can't believe players are this worked up by it.

Work on improving your builds. Implosion will not be the deciding factor in 95% of your fights.

I don't find this to be true with most sorcs spamming mages wrath to kill steal.
Mages's wrath needs balancing just as RD finally got adjusted.

Where is killstealing an issue outside of BG? Would it make more sense to alter BG scoring than to nerf a class? Do you complain that a mT stole your kill when you defend a keep? This is less an issue with wrath or executes in general than with bad scoring design.

You don't see it coming or the sorc who applies it most of the time in Cyro so when you are busy melee fighting another player a sorc standing at the back of the zerg (sound familiar?) kills me ending the fight I was trying to have with the first player.
So effectively the sorc just stole a possible kill from my opponent or me from relative safety.

What does that matter in cyro? People spamming skills / executes from back of the line is common and surely nothing sorc exclusive.

No but they don't have the most powerful ranged execute in the game either which Wrath now is.
Take note I am not for nerfing Wrath's damage, just it's range.

Keep_Door

Reduce the duration of their sheilds ... wait

Nerf the damage on frags ... wait

Make sustain changes across the board ... wait

Increase the cost of streak after each use ... wait

Im out of ideas

Derra

I always ask myself if i´m in for a nice game of chess with a pidgeon when a topic like this pops up.

This time the answer is no.

agingerinohio

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

vpy wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

agingerinohio wrote: »

Don't need an entire class because of pvp. They are fine. The class was designed to be a high damage DD. The other classes in PvP have the same potential of having very high burst as well. As for the shields, any magica class has the ability to shield stack. What I want to see (being someone who has primarily played magica characters and now experimenting with stamina) is better shielding options for stamina builds.

Stam classes have vigor which is a ridiculous heal. Shields paired with vigor would actually be OP/broken.

Mate

You lose your credibility when you equate the PVP potency or Vigor with noncrittable shields

Exactly my point.

Slack

Slightly reduce the overall burst or damage or usage of Mag Sorc PVP goodies like (shields (make them crittable), streak (increase cost etc), implosion (disable it in PVP), endless fury (reduce the burst or time), curse (reduce the burst etc) or )something else BUT SPECIFIC ONLY TO PVP

I'll just repeat myself.
"don't nerf specific classes - change abilities in general "

-Add a damage penalty to ranged abilities, the longer the distance the higher the penalty
-make shields crittable

Vaoh

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Keep_Door wrote: »

Reduce the duration of their sheilds ... wait

Nerf the damage on frags ... wait

Make sustain changes across the board ... wait

Increase the cost of streak after each use ... wait

Im out of ideas

I hate the term, but honestly.... it is now a L2P issue.

I kill Magicka Sorcs like every other class rn. Only Stam DKs give me serious trouble,.

DeHei

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

Slack wrote: »

I'll just repeat myself.
"don't nerf classes - change abilities"

-Add a damage penalty to ranged abilities, the longer the distance the higher the penalty
-make shields crittable

That will not only nerf sorcs.. this will nerf all classes. Back to trials just for meleestaminaclasses??
This cant be the solution, when 1 class seems to be stronger like other..

Feanor

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

TequilaFire wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Implosion is so minor, I can't believe players are this worked up by it.

Work on improving your builds. Implosion will not be the deciding factor in 95% of your fights.

I don't find this to be true with most sorcs spamming mages wrath to kill steal.
Mages's wrath needs balancing just as RD finally got adjusted.

Where is killstealing an issue outside of BG? Would it make more sense to alter BG scoring than to nerf a class? Do you complain that a mT stole your kill when you defend a keep? This is less an issue with wrath or executes in general than with bad scoring design.

You don't see it coming or the sorc who applies it most of the time in Cyro so when you are busy melee fighting another player a sorc standing at the back of the zerg (sound familiar?) kills me ending the fight I was trying to have with the first player.
So effectively the sorc just stole a possible kill from my opponent or me from relative safety.

What does that matter in cyro? People spamming skills / executes from back of the line is common and surely nothing sorc exclusive.

No but they don't have the most powerful ranged execute in the game either which Wrath now is.
Take note I am not for nerfing Wrath's damage, just it's range.

Wrath is not the only skill with a range of 28m, and not even the only execute with that range.

@Vaoh

I don't think any Sorc would reject a more useful passive than implosion is now...

Slack

Slightly reduce the overall burst or damage or usage of Mag Sorc PVP goodies like (shields (make them crittable), streak (increase cost etc), implosion (disable it in PVP), endless fury (reduce the burst or time), curse (reduce the burst etc) or )something else BUT SPECIFIC ONLY TO PVP

DeHei wrote: »

Slack wrote: »

I'll just repeat myself.
"don't nerf classes - change abilities"

-Add a damage penalty to ranged abilities, the longer the distance the higher the penalty
-make shields crittable

That will not only nerf sorcs.. this will nerf all classes. Back to trials just for meleestaminaclasses??
This cant be the solution, when 1 class seems to be stronger like other..

Stay closer to combat then to keep the damage up.
If Stamina users manage to stay alive then Magicka should with ease. Especially when you got easy access to shields

Tai-Chi

Dear @vpy !

Where on Earth (or Nirn) are you getting your statistics and information from?

I am sorry to say but you have been well and truly duped. Never mind, it happens to the best of us from time-to-time. We all have to learn somehow.

Your opening remarks state; "Since we all agree the damage and burst of Mag Sorcs is way overboard". Well, it is quite apparent from your poll, that. We do not all agree.

My advice to you would be, do not believe everything you hear or read. The Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood are rife with con-merchants and crooks of every description and they infiltrate everywhere. Neither PvP nor PvE areas are safe from them. Check out your sources more thoroughly - then double check them again.

I hope you do not mind me speaking out but it was done with kindness and your best interests at heart.

Enslaved

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

buff others. Would be awesome for PvE as well.

DeHei

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

Slack wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Slack wrote: »

I'll just repeat myself.
"don't nerf classes - change abilities"

-Add a damage penalty to ranged abilities, the longer the distance the higher the penalty
-make shields crittable

That will not only nerf sorcs.. this will nerf all classes. Back to trials just for meleestaminaclasses??
This cant be the solution, when 1 class seems to be stronger like other..

Stay closer to combat then to keep the damage up.
If Stamina users manage to stay alive then Magicka should with ease. Especially when you got easy access to shields

I dont agree. Lets think about it:
Attacks on 18m+ range give a penalty for 10% less damage and attacks on 28m+ range get a penalty of 25% less damage or something like that...

This would really destroy most magickabuilds. In light armor you need to fight on distance, because your resistances are not high. This will buff staminabuilds and exspecially nightblades to hell...
We need a better solution!

ParaNostram

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Poll is tilted, so I voted against OP's expectation. Next time have your poll not be tilted by your feeling tilted.

Slack

Slightly reduce the overall burst or damage or usage of Mag Sorc PVP goodies like (shields (make them crittable), streak (increase cost etc), implosion (disable it in PVP), endless fury (reduce the burst or time), curse (reduce the burst etc) or )something else BUT SPECIFIC ONLY TO PVP

DeHei wrote: »

Slack wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Slack wrote: »

I'll just repeat myself.
"don't nerf classes - change abilities"

-Add a damage penalty to ranged abilities, the longer the distance the higher the penalty
-make shields crittable

That will not only nerf sorcs.. this will nerf all classes. Back to trials just for meleestaminaclasses??
This cant be the solution, when 1 class seems to be stronger like other..

Stay closer to combat then to keep the damage up.
If Stamina users manage to stay alive then Magicka should with ease. Especially when you got easy access to shields

I dont agree. Lets think about it:
Attacks on 18m+ range give a penalty for 10% less damage and attacks on 28m+ range get a penalty of 25% less damage or something like that...

This would really destroy most magickabuilds. In light armor you need to fight on distance, because your resistances are not high. This will buff staminabuilds and exspecially nightblades to hell...
We need a better solution!

Spell resistance is actually higher and physical resistance is maybe lower by 3 - 4 k.
That's also not gamebreaking if you allocate your champion points right. In addition to that you got strong shields which can "double" your HP for a few seconds

DeHei

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

There is a difference between gameplay from PvE and PvP...

IcyDeadPeople

Only tweak needed is slight reduction in size of hardened ward. This one is a bit too beaucoup and scales on the offensive stat pool, so you can be extremely tanky and deal higher damage at same time.

...or perhaps adjust some other shields so they also scale on max magicka or stamina instead of health (bone shield, igneous shield, blazing shield).

Eirella

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

It amazes me that people STILL think mag sorcs are OP. I find mag NBs way stronger (at least playing one feels way stronger than my sorc.)

The ONLY thing I think needs adjusting (as in, SLIGHT nerf) on a mag sorc is the execute.

Anlace

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

...or perhaps adjust some other shields so they also scale on max magicka or stamina instead of health (bone shield, igneous shield, blazing shield).

Yes please.

PsychoROFLit

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

lmao, again whining about sorcs... I know lot of players who playing cool vs mag sorc.

So, i have one thing for all of you:

Learn to play, i guess

SnubbS

Critable shields which scale with your crit resistance would balance MagSorcs in PvP. That's all it takes—one simple change. No need for the streak treatment, a nerf of Bastion or anything else which is class-breaking.

It is very, very stupid that a ward which costs 3k~ Magicka can absorb 8k~ Magicka worth of attacks.

quake89

Yet again another lets nerf mag sorcs because well I cant kill them. please learn to play and time your burst in your opportunities that happen against Sorcs.

TequilaFire

Feanor wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Implosion is so minor, I can't believe players are this worked up by it.

Work on improving your builds. Implosion will not be the deciding factor in 95% of your fights.

I don't find this to be true with most sorcs spamming mages wrath to kill steal.
Mages's wrath needs balancing just as RD finally got adjusted.

Where is killstealing an issue outside of BG? Would it make more sense to alter BG scoring than to nerf a class? Do you complain that a mT stole your kill when you defend a keep? This is less an issue with wrath or executes in general than with bad scoring design.

You don't see it coming or the sorc who applies it most of the time in Cyro so when you are busy melee fighting another player a sorc standing at the back of the zerg (sound familiar?) kills me ending the fight I was trying to have with the first player.
So effectively the sorc just stole a possible kill from my opponent or me from relative safety.

What does that matter in cyro? People spamming skills / executes from back of the line is common and surely nothing sorc exclusive.

No but they don't have the most powerful ranged execute in the game either which Wrath now is.
Take note I am not for nerfing Wrath's damage, just it's range.

Wrath is not the only skill with a range of 28m, and not even the only execute with that range.

@Vaoh

I don't think any Sorc would reject a more useful passive than implosion is now...

I never said it was the only ranged execute, but RD already had it's nerf, albeit nerfed the wrong way.
RD only needed it's range reduced as well, but ZOS.

Apherius

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

SnubbS wrote: »

Critable shields which scale with your crit resistance would balance MagSorcs in PvP. That's all it takes—one simple change. No need for the streak treatment, a nerf of Bastion or anything else which is class-breaking.

It is very, very stupid that a ward which costs 3k~ Magicka can absorb 8k~ Magicka worth of attacks.

at this moment ,shield should be able to crit ( scale on your spell crit % ).

why do you talk about " one simple change " don't you read what i have write ? this would be the 5th nerf of the shields !!! it's time for you guys to L2P .

Gothren

let me translate this thread for you.... please nerf X because im such a bad player and need to take a crap on others without fully realizing the implications of such nerf.