How to balance Mag Sorcs ?

PsychoROFLit

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Apherius wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

Critable shields which scale with your crit resistance would balance MagSorcs in PvP. That's all it takes—one simple change. No need for the streak treatment, a nerf of Bastion or anything else which is class-breaking.

It is very, very stupid that a ward which costs 3k~ Magicka can absorb 8k~ Magicka worth of attacks.

at this moment ,shield should be able to crit ( scale on your spell crit % ).

why do you talk about " one simple change " don't you read what i have write ? this would be the 5th nerf of the shields !!! it's time for you guys to L2P .

then next one "topic" will named as: make everything like it was before! MagNBs cant play
guys, you're seriously idiots...

AtraisMachina

This argument is so old m8. Seriously it cant be done. Just make one. That the only way.

Beardimus

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Honestly, it's the standard setting to whine about Sorcs on here. It goes quiet for a bit, people whine about DLC / Chapter for a bit, Then an event, then BOOM back to default setting whine about sorcs.

MagSorc are THE easiest target to kill in PvP. Very clear and obvious counters.

And you know the resource problems EVERYONE whines about on here. Well trying adding shield stacking on top of that. No one can dish out offense while continually stacking shields now, I call BS on anyway saying otherwise.

I'm sure an AH thread will be next, almost as popular

dsalter

Nerf Mag Sorcs a bit while slightly buffing up other classes

as someone who mains a mag sorc (with the occasional stam sorc run to spice things up) i can tell you the main thing that makes sorcs so potent is the ability to apply chance bursts.

if you throw out curse, mage fury and streak to stun them and get lucky with a frag proc, you can steamroll burst well into the 20k range, throw up a shield, and repeat.

the issue lies mostly in curse being explosions rather than a punishing sustained damage as bomb trains or proctatos can tell you in the past the ability to prep everything to hit all at once is pretty much a winner in pvp.

it's a strong combo but it's not invincibility, mag sorcs are one of the only class setups that have access to such a potent burst that is somewhat reliable has an execute as an ability which has a window timer AND we even have a passive that can also execute on any shock/physical damage we deal.

my main solutions?

1: change curse into a 2 stage ability, every 2 seconds for 8 seconds deal an explosion (roughly 1/2 of current ones) the second stage is on the 4th tick (the 8th second) applies minor breach/fracture depending on morph for 9 seconds

so this allows curse to be one of those things that will over time get stronger as it will place a debuff on you to allow the next one to hit even harder by lowering resistances.
slows the burst potency but slightly buffs sustained damage.

2: remove the timer effect from mages fury but buff it's direct cast damage by 30% to compensate
this allows it to be a true execute that cant be used to overpower the enemy from full health via timer and the small damage is to compensate for this lost ability, mostly a nerf in terms of burst but helps sustained slightly

3: alter implosions function as a low health destroyer to a mid health sustained pressure.
so increase the health threshold to 30% health, increase chance to 10% BUUUT lower it's damage by half and apply it as an undispellable DoT.

are these changes perfect?

no.

but do we need them to help put us into a position that allows the other classes to be buffed up to par?

yes.

otherwise we'll end up either to strong or under powered if other classes only are buffed (depending how its done)

Appleblade

Every so often, RNGesus willing, a sorcerer's spell misfires and blows up in the sorc's face.

SnubbS

Apherius wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

Critable shields which scale with your crit resistance would balance MagSorcs in PvP. That's all it takes—one simple change. No need for the streak treatment, a nerf of Bastion or anything else which is class-breaking.

It is very, very stupid that a ward which costs 3k~ Magicka can absorb 8k~ Magicka worth of attacks.

at this moment ,shield should be able to crit ( scale on your spell crit % ).

why do you talk about " one simple change " don't you read what i have write ? this would be the 5th nerf of the shields !!! it's time for you guys to L2P .

I talk about "One Simple Change" because that's all that's needed. People like you do not understand that if you do not go the "One simple change" route you're going to wind up with a vastly different sorc experience that you aren't going to like.

People in this thread are talking about Disabling implosion, increasing streak cost and reducing damage—that's absurd, that's not how you balance this class—that's just ruining it.

Sorc shields at this moment are bypassing Crit damage and Major/Minor defile, as well as benefiting from Major Protection. Sorc shield stacking at this moment is bar none the best way to heal yourself in ESO—you're completely lost if you believe otherwise, I mean completely out of this world.

I don't care how many times they've been nerfed—they're overperforming right now.

You want Shields to crit based off spell crit right? Okay, let's let Major/Minor defile affect shield strength as well as having them be critable and I'm all for it.

There's nothing more annoying than having someone who's undoubtedly awful at the game tell you to "L2P".

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Stop the crying. Geez, will you ever stop the nerf train? Sorcs are fine, Nightblades are fine, DK's are fine. Etc....you nerfers are ruining the game. Enough already.

Father_X_Zombie

The only change i would like too see is mages fury being reworked into something more fair for fighting medium armor. Its not really fun getting insta killed at 20% health in medium armor. (Assuming implosion doesn't proc lol) It should just do more damage the lower health the target is.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Thogard wrote: »

We need to change the way health bars are read in this game so that scrubs like OP can see that they're actually making progress when fighting a mag sorc. When you're unable to get fully through a dmg shield, even if a sorc just BARELY wins, still looks like a flawless victory for the sorc and prompts whines from people who dont know better.

Exactly. Sick of people whining when they lose to "XXX Class". Let's jump on the forum and post "NERF IT!".

Feanor

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

SnubbS wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

Critable shields which scale with your crit resistance would balance MagSorcs in PvP. That's all it takes—one simple change. No need for the streak treatment, a nerf of Bastion or anything else which is class-breaking.

It is very, very stupid that a ward which costs 3k~ Magicka can absorb 8k~ Magicka worth of attacks.

at this moment ,shield should be able to crit ( scale on your spell crit % ).

why do you talk about " one simple change " don't you read what i have write ? this would be the 5th nerf of the shields !!! it's time for you guys to L2P .

I talk about "One Simple Change" because that's all that's needed. People like you do not understand that if you do not go the "One simple change" route you're going to wind up with a vastly different sorc experience that you aren't going to like.

People in this thread are talking about Disabling implosion, increasing streak cost and reducing damage—that's absurd, that's not how you balance this class—that's just ruining it.

Sorc shields at this moment are bypassing Crit damage and Major/Minor defile, as well as benefiting from Major Protection. Sorc shield stacking at this moment is bar none the best way to heal yourself in ESO—you're completely lost if you believe otherwise, I mean completely out of this world.

I don't care how many times they've been nerfed—they're overperforming right now.

You want Shields to crit based off spell crit right? Okay, let's let Major/Minor defile affect shield strength as well as having them be critable and I'm all for it.

There's nothing more annoying than having someone who's undoubtedly awful at the game tell you to "L2P".

Yeah I'm quite sure you want your Incap to take down the shield, apply the cc + major defile along with the left over crit damage on top, for 70 ult, with 1 button press. And if you really think hardened Ward into healing Ward is the best healing in the game on PvP you obviously never have seen a Warden or a Templar...

RinaldoGandolphi

Unreal Mag Sorc is the most nerfed class in the game by a long shot and it still isn't enough either. It will never end I swear

My mag nightblade is every bit as strong as my mag Sorc, in some ways he is stronger. My mag blade can face tank people without shields in light armor and duel staffs where my Sorc would be dead in the same conditions with no shields...did I mention my Soul Hsrvest hits heavy impen targets for 10k or so and is up all the time?

My point is EVERY class and Sorc is as strong as Mag Sorc if built and played to their strengths.

You keep asking for needs your going to end up with a game no one wants to play, with solo play killed off completely and nothing viable but zergs. Just let it go already

SnubbS

Feanor wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

Critable shields which scale with your crit resistance would balance MagSorcs in PvP. That's all it takes—one simple change. No need for the streak treatment, a nerf of Bastion or anything else which is class-breaking.

It is very, very stupid that a ward which costs 3k~ Magicka can absorb 8k~ Magicka worth of attacks.

at this moment ,shield should be able to crit ( scale on your spell crit % ).

why do you talk about " one simple change " don't you read what i have write ? this would be the 5th nerf of the shields !!! it's time for you guys to L2P .

I talk about "One Simple Change" because that's all that's needed. People like you do not understand that if you do not go the "One simple change" route you're going to wind up with a vastly different sorc experience that you aren't going to like.

People in this thread are talking about Disabling implosion, increasing streak cost and reducing damage—that's absurd, that's not how you balance this class—that's just ruining it.

Sorc shields at this moment are bypassing Crit damage and Major/Minor defile, as well as benefiting from Major Protection. Sorc shield stacking at this moment is bar none the best way to heal yourself in ESO—you're completely lost if you believe otherwise, I mean completely out of this world.

I don't care how many times they've been nerfed—they're overperforming right now.

You want Shields to crit based off spell crit right? Okay, let's let Major/Minor defile affect shield strength as well as having them be critable and I'm all for it.

There's nothing more annoying than having someone who's undoubtedly awful at the game tell you to "L2P".

Yeah I'm quite sure you want your Incap to take down the shield, apply the cc + major defile along with the left over crit damage on top, for 70 ult, with 1 button press. And if you really think hardened Ward into healing Ward is the best healing in the game on PvP you obviously never have seen a Warden or a Templar...

All I want is for Shields to no longer bypass Crit damage. They already bypass Major/Minor Defile while benefitting from Major Protection—that's huge, and I'm not even asking for that to change.

In your example my Incap would be hitting for 11-14k? Do you run zero crit resist? Perhaps that's why you're terrified of Shields being Critable. Also, this presumes that my main is a StamBlade—it isn't. My Stamblade is AvA 9, and my main is AvA 47. Quite a noticeable difference there.

Hardened, Harness + Healing assuming no one steals your Healing Ward is bar none the best way to self-heal in ESO. You bypass both defiles and absorb a tremendous amount of damage which cannot be critically dealt. Templar self-healing isn't bad, however they can be defiled and when you cc a Magplar they're able to be hit by high bursts of crit unlike Sorc where you cc and the can wards absorb 16k worth of damage.

Warden self-healing if we exclude Ults—I don't think it's that good. I see a ton of MagWardens every day and none of them ever face-tank with Heals like a Sorc/Templar or even DK. Of course, when they're actually inside the Tree ult that's a different story—but if we're going to include ults then it goes back to Sorc being able to get 30% damage reduction on 16k worth of wards which cannot be crit, and Sorcs win again.

Feanor

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

You also know full well that 30% damage reduction comes with Minor Defile since one doesn't have the bar slots to run purge and relies on a Pirate Skeleton proc, which in turn means that you didn't have the shield up at all... sure, if shields take crit, Sorcs will be forced into impen. It's not the big deal you are making it out to be though. It's all about reliable protection. Critable shields don't offer that.

TheCaptainJosh

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

The grass is always greener on the other side. Please pick up a sorc and let me know how "OP" they are when you can't keep your shields up or run out of stamina in the first 10 seconds of every fight you're in

RT_Frank

Slightly reduce the overall burst or damage or usage of Mag Sorc PVP goodies like (shields (make them crittable), streak (increase cost etc), implosion (disable it in PVP), endless fury (reduce the burst or time), curse (reduce the burst etc) or )something else BUT SPECIFIC ONLY TO PVP

While I disagree with the whole nerf this nerf that argument, I pick this choice solely because it promotes the much needed PvE and PvP split

Olupajmibanan

I am sorry, but streak is fine. Stamina gap closers should have the same treatment as streak.

Implosion is ok. If you have 30k hp in pvp, you need to get under 4500 hp to give implosion chance to proc. Bro, seriously, with 4500 hp you are dead anyways.

Shields are the worst type of defense against multiple opponents. But I agree that shields shouldn't ignore physical and magical penetration, that's just plain wrong.

Endless fury, I would reduce the execution percentage to 15% but upped the damage to not screw pve. This way, most the damage in pvp would be just overkill and wasted.

SnubbS

TheCaptainJosh wrote: »

The grass is always greener on the other side. Please pick up a sorc and let me know how "OP" they are when you can't keep your shields up or run out of stamina in the first 10 seconds of every fight you're in

I actually feel like most of the sorc mains in this thread are the players which cannot keep up their shields. Also, if you're running Amberplasm and run out of Stam I feel very bad for you.

Feanor wrote: »

You also know full well that 30% damage reduction comes with Minor Defile since one doesn't have the bar slots to run purge and relies on a Pirate Skeleton proc, which in turn means that you didn't have the shield up at all... sure, if shields take crit, Sorcs will be forced into impen. It's not the big deal you are making it out to be though. It's all about reliable protection. Critable shields don't offer that.

I was actually talking about Resto ults 30% damage reduction—but Pirate Skele also provides the buff. Minor defile simply doesn't matter that much on MagSorc—you're apparently AR 35 on MagSorc so I have a very hard time believing that you believe differently. If you're shield stacking properly then your Healing Ward will go off and fill your healthbar completely. I get 9k non crits constantly with the Minor Defile proc. I can't even get a 9k Crit heal with Dragon blood if I'm inside a keep.

Every decent Sorc on Xbox NA has been running Impen for months—I have a hard time believing this is any different on any other platform/server. I'm not making a big deal out of Magicka Sorc being this OP unkillable god-class—I believe it's fine apart from being too tanky for what it is. You're just not looking at the numbers if you believe that Critable shields will kill the classes survivability. As far as Sorc "Nerf" suggestions in this thread, my position is by far the most Sorc-friendly. The chance of an attack dealing 2-4k extra damage to a ward is not class killing.

Lord_Eomer

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Some whiney got killed by a mag sorc and decided to create a thread and start asking nerf nerf nerf!

Many good players are getting tired of such post and eventually will quit eso!

Its future is nerf nerf and nerf!

idk

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Zer0oo wrote: »

@vpy are you a stam nb?

I really think it is some kind of stam nb passive to permanently QQing about sorcs.

First year in the game a NB in guild constantly QQed about the three other classes being to OP. He ended up rolling a sorc and stilled QQed about the other three classes.

It depended on what class he played which classes were OP. See the pattern?

Drdeath20

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

Other classes need a few tweaks to some skills. Most of the other classes were gutted. The things that make sorcs better than other classes still remain.

Yes their shield got nerfed but it still scales off max magicka and you have options to have a longer lasting shield.

Streak got a bunch of nerfs but it can still help a smart player disengage a fight rather easily.

Frags still hits hard and can be insta casted to help with their burst rotation.

Sustain is never an issue

If you compare world skill alternatives to a sorc defining skill you will notice a sea of difference.

If you look at other classes, their class defining skills (for the most part) has a sonewhat comparible alternative in the wold skill tree. Ofcourse their are exceptions, like cloak.

thankyourat

Keep_Door wrote: »

Reduce the duration of their sheilds ... wait

Nerf the damage on frags ... wait

Make sustain changes across the board ... wait

Increase the cost of streak after each use ... wait

Im out of ideas

Really the nerf to frag wasn't needed, but just because a class receives constant nerfs doesn't mean it's fixed or balanced. I think ZoS is just missing the issue with sorcs. the problem has never been burst damage it's always been damage shields. The ability to stack two damage shields is too strong. If ZoS would've just addressed this in the beginning none of these other sorc nerfs would've been necessary. The way it is right now if you play a meta sorc build and you are 1v1 you should not lose at most you should just draw. Damage shields should not be stackable and if sorc defense is found to be weak buff one of the classes defensive abilities. Even though I personally think it would be unnecessary because sorcs already have amazing abilities like boundless storm and crit surge that get completely over looked.

Flameheart

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

vpy wrote: »

Since we all agree the damage and burst of Mag Sorcs is way overboard (especially in PVP)

It seems as if we do not all agree :-)

IcyDeadPeople

thankyourat wrote: »

Keep_Door wrote: »

Reduce the duration of their sheilds ... wait

Nerf the damage on frags ... wait

Make sustain changes across the board ... wait

Increase the cost of streak after each use ... wait

Im out of ideas

Really the nerf to frag wasn't needed, but just because a class receives constant nerfs doesn't mean it's fixed or balanced. I think ZoS is just missing the issue with sorcs. the problem has never been burst damage it's always been damage shields. The ability to stack two damage shields is too strong. If ZoS would've just addressed this in the beginning none of these other sorc nerfs would've been necessary. The way it is right now if you play a meta sorc build and you are 1v1 you should not lose at most you should just draw. Damage shields should not be stackable and if sorc defense is found to be weak buff one of the classes defensive abilities. Even though I personally think it would be unnecessary because sorcs already have amazing abilities like boundless storm and crit surge that get completely over looked.

IMO stacking different shield abilities is not a significant issue, just the relatively large size of hardened ward compared to other shields in the game.

Absolut_Turkey

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Terrible poll is terrible.

max_only

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Unreal Mag Sorc is the most nerfed class in the game by a long shot and it still isn't enough either. It will never end I swear

My mag nightblade is every bit as strong as my mag Sorc, in some ways he is stronger. My mag blade can face tank people without shields in light armor and duel staffs where my Sorc would be dead in the same conditions with no shields...did I mention my Soul Hsrvest hits heavy impen targets for 10k or so and is up all the time?

My point is EVERY class and Sorc is as strong as Mag Sorc if built and played to their strengths.

You keep asking for needs your going to end up with a game no one wants to play, with solo play killed off completely and nothing viable but zergs. Just let it go already

Hey link me your magNB build.

Unless it's staff/staff. I don't want to play a nightblade like a red color sorc.

All in all I don't want sorcs to be nerfed because PvE benefits from their OP dps. On the other hand, I don't know how you keep their damage up for dungeons and trials but make them "fair" in pvp.

If ZOS could visit the original designers and pick their brain it would be best. I noticed all these heals and buffs when I first started for DK that I thought it was a healer. I noticed all these health and resistance passives on NB that I thought it was a tank. All I'm saying is, there's a solution in there somewhere but just beating Sorcs with a numbers nerf bat isn't going to solve it.

WreckfulAbandon

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

Most of these change/nerf ideas are crap, stow it and L2P or keep getting killed by scrub sorcs

Savos_Saren

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

Buff other classes (or introduce skills/item sets) to achieve fair gameplay and balance:

-Give MagPlars a decent CC.
-Give mDKs and Wardens an execute.
-Give a stamina-based "purge" ability.
-Give mWardens a gapcloser.
-Provide a something that allows Templars and DKs the ability to use Necropotence. (they have no access to "pets")

I'm not one to cry for Nerfs. But, at least allow everyone to have access to common abilities through weapon skills, guild skills, or armor sets.

SoLooney

Mag Sorcs are fine bro...yes...surely they are ....i swear

So can we stop with the nerfs please? ZOS is already trigger happy with that...

Apherius

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

jaburns wrote: »

Buff other classes (or introduce skills/item sets) to achieve fair gameplay and balance:

-Give MagPlars a decent CC.
-Give mDKs and Wardens an execute.
-Give a stamina-based "purge" ability.
-Give mWardens a gapcloser.
-Provide a something that allows Templars and DKs the ability to use Necropotence. (they have no access to "pets")

I'm not one to cry for Nerfs. But, at least allow everyone to have access to common abilities through weapon skills, guild skills, or armor sets.

At this moment , if you want everyone to have acess to common abilities , magsorc should get a spammable.

WuffyCerulei

Buff other classes but dont nerf Mag Sorcs

The other classes need serious buffing and reworking to be on par with magsorcs. Whether it be active skills, damage output, or passives, most of the other mag classes can't perform as well. I think magDKs are up there, but the issue is that they're melee, while sorcs can stand a fair distance away.