What's the point of running Templar healers now? (PTS natch potes)
-
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭
To provide insight to insanity on some of these posts. Ive got more templars than anything in my group. The changes impact me significantly. I also have experience with templar in its current broken state. Change was due. People that fail to accept that are in denial.
Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on April 24, 2017 8:38PM4 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Northern_Eve wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »He is a much better player then I could ever dream of being. So while I don't agree with him a lot I generally try not to get worked up over him yelling nerf over and over.
I also try to remember that a lot of his angst comes from being like 4 foot tall.
Well, being "a much better player" doesn't really grant anyone the right to belittle, ridicule and flame people. I bet plenty of people in this thread who play templars are much better at several things in life than "FENGRUSH" is, yet he talks to us like we are all some kind if simpletons - just because we play a class he doesn't seem to like in a MMO.
Im not talking to you like a simpleton. I asked you a question about why it didnt excel at a role - a claim you made. You ignored it twice. I made a response about a templars feels who said he wanted to play the game while eating a burrito and watching TV. That pretty much sums up where templar was at.0 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭As someone who has a Stamplar and Magplar, and dabbles with builds for solo and group play in PvP. After the patch, I'm confident they will be fine.
In the current meta-- When I run into a Templar that can't die in PvP because they can out sustain and run reactive, while healing, purging + getting buffed with Major Mending, something is over performing here. The sustain problem needed axing.
Now it'll be a thinking-mans PvP. No more of this silly meta we see right now. I am all for it. I would gladly trade some of my damage, and a bit of sustain for this new patch on the horizon. I always play a balanced gear archtype, aka Damage set + Sustain + monster. So nothing will change for me. Some folks? Well, they gonna need to learn how to play this and think before they go all out attacking now. Consequences to your actions!Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on April 24, 2017 8:50PM1 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Jemcrystal wrote: »I just want a healer that is easy. As in the one class you can eat a burrito, watch youtube, and run a dungeon all at the same time. There is no easy dungeon running class in this game with this balance obsession. It's to much like Square Enix's Final Fantasy XI. All of a sudden you have to work at being a healer. Research, builds, best armor. I miss the days (in general mmo gaming) when healer was harder to take down than a tank even if they showed up in the nude and could "/follow" the group and just had to hit a button if the screen started showing red. I don't want to work at a game. I want to play at a game. I miss the easy life. It made queue up on dungeon finders quicker - you only had to hunt high and low for a tank.
Every templars feels right now
What is your purpose here?
At this point it feels like you're just trying to flame people for no reason.
To provide insight to insanity on some of these posts. Ive got more templars than anything in my group. The changes impact me significantly. I also have experience with templar in its current broken state. Change was due. People that fail to accept that are in denial.
I guess you are looking forward to dark deal being nerfed into the ground where 'changes are due' too then.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast Podcast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)5 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Jemcrystal wrote: »I just want a healer that is easy. As in the one class you can eat a burrito, watch youtube, and run a dungeon all at the same time. There is no easy dungeon running class in this game with this balance obsession. It's to much like Square Enix's Final Fantasy XI. All of a sudden you have to work at being a healer. Research, builds, best armor. I miss the days (in general mmo gaming) when healer was harder to take down than a tank even if they showed up in the nude and could "/follow" the group and just had to hit a button if the screen started showing red. I don't want to work at a game. I want to play at a game. I miss the easy life. It made queue up on dungeon finders quicker - you only had to hunt high and low for a tank.
Every templars feels right now
What is your purpose here?
At this point it feels like you're just trying to flame people for no reason.
To provide insight to insanity on some of these posts. Ive got more templars than anything in my group. The changes impact me significantly. I also have experience with templar in its current broken state. Change was due. People that fail to accept that are in denial.
I guess you are looking forward to dark deal being nerfed into the ground where 'changes are due' too then.
If these other sustain changes hold then yes. I dont like the complete stripping of class sustain changes.1 -
Gomumon✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »I am getting really tired of these insults: "Templars are just a simple healing class" etc.
I wonder how many times us simple, privileged Templars that deserve to get nerfed to oblivion in your opinion have kept your asses alive and your resources going during the game?
Skip it already! A nightblade, dragonknight or a sorc would have done the same, but because they didn't get the CORE-supportskills, they where never chosen to be healer. You and all the other templars, who are used be the one and only, are just not capable to accept that YOU ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL ANYMORE
/rant
Are you serious? If you were all this time so envious to people who chose to play templars, why didn't you just make one yourself?
This is not about "being special". This is about crippling a class. Maybe you enjoy to see it happening to others, I certainly don't and wouldn't wish it on any sorc, NB (that is too late unfortunately) or DK.
It's difficult to understand people this spiteful exist.
Yeah right. I already play 2 of them. The people, which are playing it are not in my interest. You could feel special all day long. I don't care.
It is not about crippling a class. It is about to make an too good class comparable. The class was to good for healing and supporting and now this is gone. Now It is still good or even slightly better as the others. But you feel entiteled to be the unreachable healer for chosing the templar. Now you have to work for your place as a healer. And you can't accept it. You got 3 years of beeing the best by default. I hope you enjoyed this time enough. And when you major up, you can stop the salt in the end...
What's the point in even having classes if everyone is going to be able to do anything just as good as anyone else? The beauty of an RPG is that you PLAY a ROLE; usually a warrior, mage, cleric, rouge, ranger, or berserker, or a subclass of them.
The QQ coming from templars is pretty pathetic. The very idea that they might not be meta healers anymore is apparently too much for them to take.
Should they never ever add another class then? They have a healer, they have a tank, they have two DPS classes (ranged and melee).
By your logic it's done, no new classes ever. All because Templars want to retain superiority forever.
I'm talking about classes, not roles. What's pathetic has been the QQ all these years who want every class to be good at everything. By that logic, yes, there's no point in even having separate classes.
In any other RPG, nobody *** that the cleric can't do as much DPS as the mage, or that the warrior can't heal as much as the cleric. It should be no different here.
If you're more concerned with aesthetics (being able to heal on a Sorcerer, NB, or DK just as good as a Templar because you like the aesthetic of those classes better), then maybe an MMO RPG isn't for you. The point of an RPG is to play a class archetype that fits in with what you wanna do, but at a sacrifice of not being able to do another thing better.
Templars should be the best clerics.
Dragonknights should be the best warriors.
Sorcerers should be the best mages.
Nightblade should be the best rogues.
And Wardens should be the best rangers.
If you wanna play something where everything performs the same no matter how it looks, go play CS:GO/COD and paint your guns. ZOS pandering to players like you is why this game has turned into Participation Trophy Simulator 3.0.
100000+ person who assumes that Templar healers will be worse than NB/Sorc/DK healers. Welcome to the party.
Btw
Magicka Dragonknights are basically Pyromancers (aka Fire mages).
Magicka Nightblades are Mages mastered in Alteration Magic.
Not going to argue but it seems like your assumption of the archetype isn't entirely correct. Every class is a mage and every class is also a warrior.
I never said that any class can't fall into another archetype. I'm just saying each class should have pros/cons to their obvious archetype. I'm aware that ZOS wanted to give everyone the potential to be either a Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Assassin, or Ranger, but that doesn't mean that every class should see the same result in each.
As I've said before, if they want sameness they may as well do away with classes. Last I checked, this was still an RPG and not an adventure game. Differences in class performance should be more than superficial; ability choice more than aesthetic preference.
Of course every class has their pros and cons. Templar is the best healer and DK is the best tank. And they will still be. Doesn't mean we shouldn't make non-Templar healers as viable as we can, Templar will still be the best class in healing, so what's the deal?
Except it won't. For raw heals, Pet Sorc is looking better to most healers I talk to.
For tanking, with the nerf to resource recovery, you'll probably fare better taking with an Argonian NB or a Warden than a DK. The only thing that significantly helped as a DK was Battle Roar and Major Mending.
For other utility, now you'll be fine with generic skills like Bone Shield and Mystic Orb.
The deal is that they're removing so many of the pros, or making the difference of pros and cons so miniscule that it's nearing the point of classes being pointless or purely aesthetic.
What do these proposed changes boil down to? A vocal minority with the biggest crab mentality I've ever witnessed.Edited by Gomumon on April 24, 2017 10:58PM2 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »I am getting really tired of these insults: "Templars are just a simple healing class" etc.
I wonder how many times us simple, privileged Templars that deserve to get nerfed to oblivion in your opinion have kept your asses alive and your resources going during the game?
Skip it already! A nightblade, dragonknight or a sorc would have done the same, but because they didn't get the CORE-supportskills, they where never chosen to be healer. You and all the other templars, who are used be the one and only, are just not capable to accept that YOU ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL ANYMORE
/rant
Are you serious? If you were all this time so envious to people who chose to play templars, why didn't you just make one yourself?
This is not about "being special". This is about crippling a class. Maybe you enjoy to see it happening to others, I certainly don't and wouldn't wish it on any sorc, NB (that is too late unfortunately) or DK.
It's difficult to understand people this spiteful exist.
Yeah right. I already play 2 of them. The people, which are playing it are not in my interest. You could feel special all day long. I don't care.
It is not about crippling a class. It is about to make an too good class comparable. The class was to good for healing and supporting and now this is gone. Now It is still good or even slightly better as the others. But you feel entiteled to be the unreachable healer for chosing the templar. Now you have to work for your place as a healer. And you can't accept it. You got 3 years of beeing the best by default. I hope you enjoyed this time enough. And when you major up, you can stop the salt in the end...
What's the point in even having classes if everyone is going to be able to do anything just as good as anyone else? The beauty of an RPG is that you PLAY a ROLE; usually a warrior, mage, cleric, rouge, ranger, or berserker, or a subclass of them.
The QQ coming from templars is pretty pathetic. The very idea that they might not be meta healers anymore is apparently too much for them to take.
Should they never ever add another class then? They have a healer, they have a tank, they have two DPS classes (ranged and melee).
By your logic it's done, no new classes ever. All because Templars want to retain superiority forever.
I'm talking about classes, not roles. What's pathetic has been the QQ all these years who want every class to be good at everything. By that logic, yes, there's no point in even having separate classes.
In any other RPG, nobody *** that the cleric can't do as much DPS as the mage, or that the warrior can't heal as much as the cleric. It should be no different here.
If you're more concerned with aesthetics (being able to heal on a Sorcerer, NB, or DK just as good as a Templar because you like the aesthetic of those classes better), then maybe an MMO RPG isn't for you. The point of an RPG is to play a class archetype that fits in with what you wanna do, but at a sacrifice of not being able to do another thing better.
Templars should be the best clerics.
Dragonknights should be the best warriors.
Sorcerers should be the best mages.
Nightblade should be the best rogues.
And Wardens should be the best rangers.
If you wanna play something where everything performs the same no matter how it looks, go play CS:GO/COD and paint your guns. ZOS pandering to players like you is why this game has turned into Participation Trophy Simulator 3.0.
100000+ person who assumes that Templar healers will be worse than NB/Sorc/DK healers. Welcome to the party.
Btw
Magicka Dragonknights are basically Pyromancers (aka Fire mages).
Magicka Nightblades are Mages mastered in Alteration Magic.
Not going to argue but it seems like your assumption of the archetype isn't entirely correct. Every class is a mage and every class is also a warrior.
I never said that any class can't fall into another archetype. I'm just saying each class should have pros/cons to their obvious archetype. I'm aware that ZOS wanted to give everyone the potential to be either a Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Assassin, or Ranger, but that doesn't mean that every class should see the same result in each.
As I've said before, if they want sameness they may as well do away with classes. Last I checked, this was still an RPG and not an adventure game. Differences in class performance should be more than superficial; ability choice more than aesthetic preference.
Of course every class has their pros and cons. Templar is the best healer and DK is the best tank. And they will still be. Doesn't mean we shouldn't make non-Templar healers as viable as we can, Templar will still be the best class in healing, so what's the deal?
Except it won't. For raw heals, Pet Sorc is looking better to most healers I talk to.
For tanking, with the nerf to resource recovery, you'll probably fare better taking with an Argonian NB or a Warden than a DK. The only thing that significantly helped as a DK was Battle Roar and Major Mending.
For other utility, now you'll be fine with generic skills like Bone Shield and Mystic Orb.
The deal is that they're removing so many of the pros, or making the difference of pros and cons so miniscule that it's nearing the point of classes being pointless or purely aesthetic.
What do these proposed changes boil down to? A vocal minority with the biggest crab mentality I've ever witnessed.
I really dont see twilight matriarchs panning out in group play with summon time that can be interuppted and PVE mechanics can be brutalized (hey they negated us, which happens every fight. All of the pets are locked down guys hang in there for 12 seconds.)
God bless if you want to run with that setup. It wont withstand a proper initiation.0 -
I reiterate, give Templars a staminasteal with with Repentence or Radiant Aura. Give generic healers stamina steal with Blood Funnel which is currently useless. Give two morphs of orbs - Mystic that restores Magicka and Energy that restores Stamina. That way every single healer variation can restore both stamina and magicka and Templars will still have retained utility in their Restoring Light skill tree. Nothing will be op because only thing you can stack is orbs + steal and you can adjust exactly how much sustain that equals out to in the new meta.
And give siphoning the sustain back. Buff nightblade damage. This isn't a Nightblade thread but their dps should be on par with sorc dps.1 -
Gomumon✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »I am getting really tired of these insults: "Templars are just a simple healing class" etc.
I wonder how many times us simple, privileged Templars that deserve to get nerfed to oblivion in your opinion have kept your asses alive and your resources going during the game?
Skip it already! A nightblade, dragonknight or a sorc would have done the same, but because they didn't get the CORE-supportskills, they where never chosen to be healer. You and all the other templars, who are used be the one and only, are just not capable to accept that YOU ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL ANYMORE
/rant
Are you serious? If you were all this time so envious to people who chose to play templars, why didn't you just make one yourself?
This is not about "being special". This is about crippling a class. Maybe you enjoy to see it happening to others, I certainly don't and wouldn't wish it on any sorc, NB (that is too late unfortunately) or DK.
It's difficult to understand people this spiteful exist.
Yeah right. I already play 2 of them. The people, which are playing it are not in my interest. You could feel special all day long. I don't care.
It is not about crippling a class. It is about to make an too good class comparable. The class was to good for healing and supporting and now this is gone. Now It is still good or even slightly better as the others. But you feel entiteled to be the unreachable healer for chosing the templar. Now you have to work for your place as a healer. And you can't accept it. You got 3 years of beeing the best by default. I hope you enjoyed this time enough. And when you major up, you can stop the salt in the end...
What's the point in even having classes if everyone is going to be able to do anything just as good as anyone else? The beauty of an RPG is that you PLAY a ROLE; usually a warrior, mage, cleric, rouge, ranger, or berserker, or a subclass of them.
The QQ coming from templars is pretty pathetic. The very idea that they might not be meta healers anymore is apparently too much for them to take.
Should they never ever add another class then? They have a healer, they have a tank, they have two DPS classes (ranged and melee).
By your logic it's done, no new classes ever. All because Templars want to retain superiority forever.
I'm talking about classes, not roles. What's pathetic has been the QQ all these years who want every class to be good at everything. By that logic, yes, there's no point in even having separate classes.
In any other RPG, nobody *** that the cleric can't do as much DPS as the mage, or that the warrior can't heal as much as the cleric. It should be no different here.
If you're more concerned with aesthetics (being able to heal on a Sorcerer, NB, or DK just as good as a Templar because you like the aesthetic of those classes better), then maybe an MMO RPG isn't for you. The point of an RPG is to play a class archetype that fits in with what you wanna do, but at a sacrifice of not being able to do another thing better.
Templars should be the best clerics.
Dragonknights should be the best warriors.
Sorcerers should be the best mages.
Nightblade should be the best rogues.
And Wardens should be the best rangers.
If you wanna play something where everything performs the same no matter how it looks, go play CS:GO/COD and paint your guns. ZOS pandering to players like you is why this game has turned into Participation Trophy Simulator 3.0.
100000+ person who assumes that Templar healers will be worse than NB/Sorc/DK healers. Welcome to the party.
Btw
Magicka Dragonknights are basically Pyromancers (aka Fire mages).
Magicka Nightblades are Mages mastered in Alteration Magic.
Not going to argue but it seems like your assumption of the archetype isn't entirely correct. Every class is a mage and every class is also a warrior.
I never said that any class can't fall into another archetype. I'm just saying each class should have pros/cons to their obvious archetype. I'm aware that ZOS wanted to give everyone the potential to be either a Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Assassin, or Ranger, but that doesn't mean that every class should see the same result in each.
As I've said before, if they want sameness they may as well do away with classes. Last I checked, this was still an RPG and not an adventure game. Differences in class performance should be more than superficial; ability choice more than aesthetic preference.
Of course every class has their pros and cons. Templar is the best healer and DK is the best tank. And they will still be. Doesn't mean we shouldn't make non-Templar healers as viable as we can, Templar will still be the best class in healing, so what's the deal?
Except it won't. For raw heals, Pet Sorc is looking better to most healers I talk to.
For tanking, with the nerf to resource recovery, you'll probably fare better taking with an Argonian NB or a Warden than a DK. The only thing that significantly helped as a DK was Battle Roar and Major Mending.
For other utility, now you'll be fine with generic skills like Bone Shield and Mystic Orb.
The deal is that they're removing so many of the pros, or making the difference of pros and cons so miniscule that it's nearing the point of classes being pointless or purely aesthetic.
What do these proposed changes boil down to? A vocal minority with the biggest crab mentality I've ever witnessed.
I really dont see twilight matriarchs panning out in group play with summon time that can be interuppted and PVE mechanics can be brutalized (hey they negated us, which happens every fight. All of the pets are locked down guys hang in there for 12 seconds.)
God bless if you want to run with that setup. It wont withstand a proper initiation.
It's still more reliable than spamming BOL until you get who needs it if you need burst. But in most cases, burst healing isn't needed. Most people I run with stopped slotting BoL after it's last nerf. Repentance in PVE was only useful to keep a trash fight moving but did nothing for boss fights and, again, most people swapped that out with Dressing Room accordingly.
The last three skills that made Templars great were Rune Focus, Purifying Ritual and Luminous Shards. The former two are RIP, and ritual could be replaced with Efficient Purge if needed, especially for the much needed 10% extra regen under support passives.
Now that Templars are useless to the tank and no longer have great burst, and resto staves have been the primary source of healing for some time, people will be better off using a class that can, at least, take care of itself better like...Well, every other class, actually.
3 -
Gomumon✭✭✭Jemcrystal wrote: »I just want a healer that is easy. As in the one class you can eat a burrito, watch youtube, and run a dungeon all at the same time. There is no easy dungeon running class in this game with this balance obsession. It's to much like Square Enix's Final Fantasy XI. All of a sudden you have to work at being a healer. Research, builds, best armor. I miss the days (in general mmo gaming) when healer was harder to take down than a tank even if they showed up in the nude and could "/follow" the group and just had to hit a button if the screen started showing red. I don't want to work at a game. I want to play at a game. I miss the easy life. It made queue up on dungeon finders quicker - you only had to hunt high and low for a tank.
Every templars feels right now
What is your purpose here?
At this point it feels like you're just trying to flame people for no reason.
Seems more like @FENGRUSH is an opportunist doing damage control/shilling on behalf of ZOS. I mean, he is finally nearing 20k subscribers on YouTube, with his monthly rate up 25% the last 30 days.
If that were me and I saw major creators like Deltia and Sypher were out of the way, I'd also want to seize the opportunity to fill that void. I certainly would try to convince as many people to stick around and that these changes aren't bad, too.
5 -
Lirkin✭✭✭✭Personal the game is way to complex as it is and you seem to be constantly making it more so. In order to be competitive you need to build at build that seems to limiting to me. I'm playing this game to have fun and relax not have it consume my life.The interactions of skills and such seem to be to complex and mashing of keys it going to give everyone carpal tunnel.
Why are not high-breed builds viable?
You also change things to often requiring us to change how we play. Linking skills for PVE to PVP is also a mistake and constantly disappoints me! I read the post by people on the web and find that I need to PVP to be a good tank for PVE because I need the skills from there to do a good job. This should not happen!!
Just my 2 cents
I'l have to see it I renew. This is not just because of the nerf to Templar's but a combination of the changes being made to the game.
2 -
emma666✭✭✭✭✭Jemcrystal wrote: »I just want a healer that is easy. As in the one class you can eat a burrito, watch youtube, and run a dungeon all at the same time. There is no easy dungeon running class in this game with this balance obsession. It's to much like Square Enix's Final Fantasy XI. All of a sudden you have to work at being a healer. Research, builds, best armor. I miss the days (in general mmo gaming) when healer was harder to take down than a tank even if they showed up in the nude and could "/follow" the group and just had to hit a button if the screen started showing red. I don't want to work at a game. I want to play at a game. I miss the easy life. It made queue up on dungeon finders quicker - you only had to hunt high and low for a tank.
Every templars feels right now
You're playing a stamsorc on Azuras Star wearing tumorscale and viper... And you're saying templars want easy mode, often ranting about how broken some builds (that you can't kill under 3 seconds) are.
Nymeria - Ebonheart - Grand Overlady - Imperial Templar - HavocI wish you good fortune in the wars to come.12 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To provide insight to insanity on some of these posts. Ive got more templars than anything in my group. The changes impact me significantly. I also have experience with templar in its current broken state. Change was due. People that fail to accept that are in denial.
Please provide with insight on what exactly was and was not broken then, but don't just try to generalize and ridicule.
That's just low.
So what exactly was so broken and needed fixing?
And your experience at playing Templar is very niche.
People have brought up different aspects of the class that got changed that have nothing to do with BoL spam qq.
Changes that will hurt, oh, say - small group play in pvp, for example.
Im pretty sure Ive quoted you in this thread, or another about the support changes and shared feedback on shards and repent. Im not randomly taking shots at templars for the sake of having fun. Im specifically interested in all of the people saying 'templar is dead, its not the best healer, it has no role'. I havent found a single one that knows what theyre talking about or has any ideas behind what they are saying.
People are frustrated and pissed off. I didn't exactly see you all calm and rationale those patches when stam sorc had nothing and they kept buffing pets. Just let them vent.
Edited by Joy_Division on April 25, 2017 4:12AM6 -
Majic✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »People are frustrated and pissed off. I didn't exactly see you all calm and rationale those patches when stam sorc had nothing and they kept buffing pets. Just let them vent.
I am always calm and rational, and that is why people fear me.
Epopt Of The Everspinning Logo, Church Of The Eternal Loading Screen
And verily, verily, spaketh the Lord: "Error <<1>>"0 -
Lore_lai✭✭✭✭✭All the Templar ladies hitting on Fengrush...and not in a good way.
@FENGRUSH - I understand the points you are trying to make, but you come in here and talk like that, while we try to either come to terms with the changes, provide (as unbiased as possible) feedback, work things out with what we have available and maybe cringe at incrementals - uncool.
Honestly, the only change I am upset about is gutting Repentance (and I am very upset about it). *For me* - everything else is fine, even a buff. But does that mean that other people should not get to share their frustration at what is basically a very drastic change?
Whether you, or me or Billy believe that it's warranted or not - it doesn't matter - a change like this, that basically takes away some of the class uniqueness, is going to create a lot of distress.
Especially since we're talking about a game here - you know - those things that are supposed to be fun?6 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't argue that some classes / players could oversustain and were basically undefeatable.
My objection is that I don't want a skill to sometimes do one thing or another based on something (as a caster) that I cannot detect - I have NO way to know how someone specs themselves without asking.
I would support a morph that has that option IF there was some other choice (i.e. only stamina or only magicka)Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jemcrystal wrote: »I just want a healer that is easy. As in the one class you can eat a burrito, watch youtube, and run a dungeon all at the same time. There is no easy dungeon running class in this game with this balance obsession. It's to much like Square Enix's Final Fantasy XI. All of a sudden you have to work at being a healer. Research, builds, best armor. I miss the days (in general mmo gaming) when healer was harder to take down than a tank even if they showed up in the nude and could "/follow" the group and just had to hit a button if the screen started showing red. I don't want to work at a game. I want to play at a game. I miss the easy life. It made queue up on dungeon finders quicker - you only had to hunt high and low for a tank.
Every templars feels right now
You're playing a stamsorc on Azuras Star wearing tumorscale and viper... And you're saying templars want easy mode, often ranting about how broken some builds (that you can't kill under 3 seconds) are.
Haha this
Hypocrisy all the way. We should care about in general balance, Ive seen so many games come to an end, because of things like this... One good player pulls 10 others, suddenly you wake up with low population and no matter what will you do, youre not able to bring them back as they have moved on. This is not WoW, GW or EVE, there is a lot of other titles much more famous than ESO, we cant let templar player base to leave!
Templars are so broken that everyone complain, but very few decides to play one (all I see in Cyrodiil are: 1. Stamblades, 2. Mag sorcs, 3. Stamdks. 4. Stam templars, Stamsorcs, Magplars equally. 5. Magblades and magdks) also no one quits because of them. Why? Because magplars are oposite of most of the classes. They are easy to keep alive but very hard to make them deadly, while all people want are frags.
Its not Im defending this class as many changes are ok, like taking away from them major mending (this wont hurt as much as everyone are thinkinh, its just a little nerf TBH because they get minor mending instead). Change to BoL? Well see how it works, personaly I rly like it, more controll over heals. But:
- Taking away cc element from shards? Why second morph wasnt changed to give hard cc to be also viable?
- Repentence total nerf for group utility, why? Because there is no spot on warden where we can implement it?
- Giving orbs the uniqe character of shards - its like giving pull to all classes - for solo play meaningless but for group play it makes templars obsolete.
In solo play, yeah templars wont feel much of a difference, but show me how much solo end game contet do we have? Hm? VMA? Something else? Yeah... I feel sorry for all of the people that have spent 3 years to make their toons perfect and now are useless.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »I am getting really tired of these insults: "Templars are just a simple healing class" etc.
I wonder how many times us simple, privileged Templars that deserve to get nerfed to oblivion in your opinion have kept your asses alive and your resources going during the game?
Skip it already! A nightblade, dragonknight or a sorc would have done the same, but because they didn't get the CORE-supportskills, they where never chosen to be healer. You and all the other templars, who are used be the one and only, are just not capable to accept that YOU ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL ANYMORE
/rant
Are you serious? If you were all this time so envious to people who chose to play templars, why didn't you just make one yourself?
This is not about "being special". This is about crippling a class. Maybe you enjoy to see it happening to others, I certainly don't and wouldn't wish it on any sorc, NB (that is too late unfortunately) or DK.
It's difficult to understand people this spiteful exist.
Yeah right. I already play 2 of them. The people, which are playing it are not in my interest. You could feel special all day long. I don't care.
It is not about crippling a class. It is about to make an too good class comparable. The class was to good for healing and supporting and now this is gone. Now It is still good or even slightly better as the others. But you feel entiteled to be the unreachable healer for chosing the templar. Now you have to work for your place as a healer. And you can't accept it. You got 3 years of beeing the best by default. I hope you enjoyed this time enough. And when you major up, you can stop the salt in the end...
What's the point in even having classes if everyone is going to be able to do anything just as good as anyone else? The beauty of an RPG is that you PLAY a ROLE; usually a warrior, mage, cleric, rouge, ranger, or berserker, or a subclass of them.
The QQ coming from templars is pretty pathetic. The very idea that they might not be meta healers anymore is apparently too much for them to take.
Should they never ever add another class then? They have a healer, they have a tank, they have two DPS classes (ranged and melee).
By your logic it's done, no new classes ever. All because Templars want to retain superiority forever.
I'm talking about classes, not roles. What's pathetic has been the QQ all these years who want every class to be good at everything. By that logic, yes, there's no point in even having separate classes.
In any other RPG, nobody *** that the cleric can't do as much DPS as the mage, or that the warrior can't heal as much as the cleric. It should be no different here.
If you're more concerned with aesthetics (being able to heal on a Sorcerer, NB, or DK just as good as a Templar because you like the aesthetic of those classes better), then maybe an MMO RPG isn't for you. The point of an RPG is to play a class archetype that fits in with what you wanna do, but at a sacrifice of not being able to do another thing better.
Templars should be the best clerics.
Dragonknights should be the best warriors.
Sorcerers should be the best mages.
Nightblade should be the best rogues.
And Wardens should be the best rangers.
If you wanna play something where everything performs the same no matter how it looks, go play CS:GO/COD and paint your guns. ZOS pandering to players like you is why this game has turned into Participation Trophy Simulator 3.0.
100000+ person who assumes that Templar healers will be worse than NB/Sorc/DK healers. Welcome to the party.
Btw
Magicka Dragonknights are basically Pyromancers (aka Fire mages).
Magicka Nightblades are Mages mastered in Alteration Magic.
Not going to argue but it seems like your assumption of the archetype isn't entirely correct. Every class is a mage and every class is also a warrior.
I never said that any class can't fall into another archetype. I'm just saying each class should have pros/cons to their obvious archetype. I'm aware that ZOS wanted to give everyone the potential to be either a Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Assassin, or Ranger, but that doesn't mean that every class should see the same result in each.
As I've said before, if they want sameness they may as well do away with classes. Last I checked, this was still an RPG and not an adventure game. Differences in class performance should be more than superficial; ability choice more than aesthetic preference.
Of course every class has their pros and cons. Templar is the best healer and DK is the best tank. And they will still be. Doesn't mean we shouldn't make non-Templar healers as viable as we can, Templar will still be the best class in healing, so what's the deal?
Except it won't. For raw heals, Pet Sorc is looking better to most healers I talk to.
For tanking, with the nerf to resource recovery, you'll probably fare better taking with an Argonian NB or a Warden than a DK. The only thing that significantly helped as a DK was Battle Roar and Major Mending.
For other utility, now you'll be fine with generic skills like Bone Shield and Mystic Orb.
The deal is that they're removing so many of the pros, or making the difference of pros and cons so miniscule that it's nearing the point of classes being pointless or purely aesthetic.
What do these proposed changes boil down to? A vocal minority with the biggest crab mentality I've ever witnessed.
Pet sorc healer is looking better? If so Nightblade DD is the best DD in PvE. Sorc healer will still be the worst class in healing (not saying they won't be viable, with the change to orb they will be viable, but will still fall behind DK/NB/Templar healers). If you think spamming twilight is how a sorc heals, that's incorrect. Sorc healer also spam spring, and as they don't have minor mending, they fall behind templar in spring spamming. Twilight is just an oh-**** button that takes 2 slots on your bars.
For tanking, you can watch Woeler's video regarding that issue. He is a very good tank player and very knowledgable in his role, and he assured that the sustain changes will be fine for tanks.
For utilities, I have said this before:hmsdragonfly wrote: »Back to the root of the issue, this is absolutely ZoS's fault at class designing. They gave Templar's Shard, but they didn't anticipate that the ability to restore stamina to the group would become the job of a healer. Now that they give everyone else something similar to shard, people who rolled a Templar feel threaten by the competition, they don't even care if Templar still has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, but, that's just human nature, I don'T blame them.
Good thing ZoS didn't monopolize Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK lol, imagine all the uproar it would have caused if ZoS had monopolized Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK then decided to change later by introducing something similar in 1HS skill line. "OMG ZOS you kill DK tanks, what's the reason to play a DK tank now that everyone has access to Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash! They are DK's class defining abilities! Those Non-DK tanks can use Tormentor and Knightmare, who care about them! Try to give them something else instead without nerfing DK tanks to the ground!", yep, that would have happened.
But then again, given time, people will soon realize that Templar is still be the best class in healing and competitive raids will still be full of Templar healers. Then people will completely forget what happened
Edited by hmsdragonfly on April 25, 2017 9:17AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »I am getting really tired of these insults: "Templars are just a simple healing class" etc.
I wonder how many times us simple, privileged Templars that deserve to get nerfed to oblivion in your opinion have kept your asses alive and your resources going during the game?
Skip it already! A nightblade, dragonknight or a sorc would have done the same, but because they didn't get the CORE-supportskills, they where never chosen to be healer. You and all the other templars, who are used be the one and only, are just not capable to accept that YOU ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL ANYMORE
/rant
Are you serious? If you were all this time so envious to people who chose to play templars, why didn't you just make one yourself?
This is not about "being special". This is about crippling a class. Maybe you enjoy to see it happening to others, I certainly don't and wouldn't wish it on any sorc, NB (that is too late unfortunately) or DK.
It's difficult to understand people this spiteful exist.
Yeah right. I already play 2 of them. The people, which are playing it are not in my interest. You could feel special all day long. I don't care.
It is not about crippling a class. It is about to make an too good class comparable. The class was to good for healing and supporting and now this is gone. Now It is still good or even slightly better as the others. But you feel entiteled to be the unreachable healer for chosing the templar. Now you have to work for your place as a healer. And you can't accept it. You got 3 years of beeing the best by default. I hope you enjoyed this time enough. And when you major up, you can stop the salt in the end...
What's the point in even having classes if everyone is going to be able to do anything just as good as anyone else? The beauty of an RPG is that you PLAY a ROLE; usually a warrior, mage, cleric, rouge, ranger, or berserker, or a subclass of them.
The QQ coming from templars is pretty pathetic. The very idea that they might not be meta healers anymore is apparently too much for them to take.
Should they never ever add another class then? They have a healer, they have a tank, they have two DPS classes (ranged and melee).
By your logic it's done, no new classes ever. All because Templars want to retain superiority forever.
I'm talking about classes, not roles. What's pathetic has been the QQ all these years who want every class to be good at everything. By that logic, yes, there's no point in even having separate classes.
In any other RPG, nobody *** that the cleric can't do as much DPS as the mage, or that the warrior can't heal as much as the cleric. It should be no different here.
If you're more concerned with aesthetics (being able to heal on a Sorcerer, NB, or DK just as good as a Templar because you like the aesthetic of those classes better), then maybe an MMO RPG isn't for you. The point of an RPG is to play a class archetype that fits in with what you wanna do, but at a sacrifice of not being able to do another thing better.
Templars should be the best clerics.
Dragonknights should be the best warriors.
Sorcerers should be the best mages.
Nightblade should be the best rogues.
And Wardens should be the best rangers.
If you wanna play something where everything performs the same no matter how it looks, go play CS:GO/COD and paint your guns. ZOS pandering to players like you is why this game has turned into Participation Trophy Simulator 3.0.
100000+ person who assumes that Templar healers will be worse than NB/Sorc/DK healers. Welcome to the party.
Btw
Magicka Dragonknights are basically Pyromancers (aka Fire mages).
Magicka Nightblades are Mages mastered in Alteration Magic.
Not going to argue but it seems like your assumption of the archetype isn't entirely correct. Every class is a mage and every class is also a warrior.
I never said that any class can't fall into another archetype. I'm just saying each class should have pros/cons to their obvious archetype. I'm aware that ZOS wanted to give everyone the potential to be either a Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Assassin, or Ranger, but that doesn't mean that every class should see the same result in each.
As I've said before, if they want sameness they may as well do away with classes. Last I checked, this was still an RPG and not an adventure game. Differences in class performance should be more than superficial; ability choice more than aesthetic preference.
Of course every class has their pros and cons. Templar is the best healer and DK is the best tank. And they will still be. Doesn't mean we shouldn't make non-Templar healers as viable as we can, Templar will still be the best class in healing, so what's the deal?
Except it won't. For raw heals, Pet Sorc is looking better to most healers I talk to.
For tanking, with the nerf to resource recovery, you'll probably fare better taking with an Argonian NB or a Warden than a DK. The only thing that significantly helped as a DK was Battle Roar and Major Mending.
For other utility, now you'll be fine with generic skills like Bone Shield and Mystic Orb.
The deal is that they're removing so many of the pros, or making the difference of pros and cons so miniscule that it's nearing the point of classes being pointless or purely aesthetic.
What do these proposed changes boil down to? A vocal minority with the biggest crab mentality I've ever witnessed.
Pet sorc healer is looking better? If so Nightblade DD is the best DD in PvE. Sorc healer will still be the worst class in healing (not saying they won't be viable, with the change to orb they will be viable, but will still fall behind DK/NB/Templar healers). If you think spamming twilight is how a sorc heals, that's incorrect. Sorc healer also spam spring, and as they don't have minor mending, they fall behind templar in spring spamming. Twilight is just an oh-**** button that takes 2 slots on your bars.
For tanking, you can watch Woeler's video regarding that issue. He is a very good tank player and very knowledgable in his role, and he assured that the sustain changes will be fine for tanks.
For utilities, I have said this before:hmsdragonfly wrote: »Back to the root of the issue, this is absolutely ZoS's fault at class designing. They gave Templar's Shard, but they didn't anticipate that the ability to restore stamina to the group would become the job of a healer. Now that they give everyone else something similar to shard, people who rolled a Templar feel threaten by the competition, they don't even care if Templar still has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, but, that's just human nature, I don'T blame them.
Good thing ZoS didn't monopolize Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK lol, imagine all the uproar it would have caused if ZoS had monopolized Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK then decided to change later by introducing something similar in 1HS skill line. "OMG ZOS you kill DK tanks, what's the reason to play a DK tank now that everyone has access to Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash! They are DK's class defining abilities! Those Non-DK tanks can use Tormentor and Knightmare, who care about them! Try to give them something else instead without nerfing DK tanks to the ground!", yep, that would have happened.
But then again, given time, people will soon realize that Templar is still be the best class in healing and competitive raids will still be full of Templar healers. Then people will completely forget what happened
And still DK has tools no other class has for tanking, maybe warden has some of them pull and reflect, but still this wasnt taken away from DK + still its the only class that combines things like buffs for whole group, roots, pull, reflect... Show me one, just one uniqe ability for templar now that will justify presence of a templar in group
Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge2 -
Gomumon✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »I am getting really tired of these insults: "Templars are just a simple healing class" etc.
I wonder how many times us simple, privileged Templars that deserve to get nerfed to oblivion in your opinion have kept your asses alive and your resources going during the game?
Skip it already! A nightblade, dragonknight or a sorc would have done the same, but because they didn't get the CORE-supportskills, they where never chosen to be healer. You and all the other templars, who are used be the one and only, are just not capable to accept that YOU ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL ANYMORE
/rant
Are you serious? If you were all this time so envious to people who chose to play templars, why didn't you just make one yourself?
This is not about "being special". This is about crippling a class. Maybe you enjoy to see it happening to others, I certainly don't and wouldn't wish it on any sorc, NB (that is too late unfortunately) or DK.
It's difficult to understand people this spiteful exist.
Yeah right. I already play 2 of them. The people, which are playing it are not in my interest. You could feel special all day long. I don't care.
It is not about crippling a class. It is about to make an too good class comparable. The class was to good for healing and supporting and now this is gone. Now It is still good or even slightly better as the others. But you feel entiteled to be the unreachable healer for chosing the templar. Now you have to work for your place as a healer. And you can't accept it. You got 3 years of beeing the best by default. I hope you enjoyed this time enough. And when you major up, you can stop the salt in the end...
What's the point in even having classes if everyone is going to be able to do anything just as good as anyone else? The beauty of an RPG is that you PLAY a ROLE; usually a warrior, mage, cleric, rouge, ranger, or berserker, or a subclass of them.
The QQ coming from templars is pretty pathetic. The very idea that they might not be meta healers anymore is apparently too much for them to take.
Should they never ever add another class then? They have a healer, they have a tank, they have two DPS classes (ranged and melee).
By your logic it's done, no new classes ever. All because Templars want to retain superiority forever.
I'm talking about classes, not roles. What's pathetic has been the QQ all these years who want every class to be good at everything. By that logic, yes, there's no point in even having separate classes.
In any other RPG, nobody *** that the cleric can't do as much DPS as the mage, or that the warrior can't heal as much as the cleric. It should be no different here.
If you're more concerned with aesthetics (being able to heal on a Sorcerer, NB, or DK just as good as a Templar because you like the aesthetic of those classes better), then maybe an MMO RPG isn't for you. The point of an RPG is to play a class archetype that fits in with what you wanna do, but at a sacrifice of not being able to do another thing better.
Templars should be the best clerics.
Dragonknights should be the best warriors.
Sorcerers should be the best mages.
Nightblade should be the best rogues.
And Wardens should be the best rangers.
If you wanna play something where everything performs the same no matter how it looks, go play CS:GO/COD and paint your guns. ZOS pandering to players like you is why this game has turned into Participation Trophy Simulator 3.0.
100000+ person who assumes that Templar healers will be worse than NB/Sorc/DK healers. Welcome to the party.
Btw
Magicka Dragonknights are basically Pyromancers (aka Fire mages).
Magicka Nightblades are Mages mastered in Alteration Magic.
Not going to argue but it seems like your assumption of the archetype isn't entirely correct. Every class is a mage and every class is also a warrior.
I never said that any class can't fall into another archetype. I'm just saying each class should have pros/cons to their obvious archetype. I'm aware that ZOS wanted to give everyone the potential to be either a Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Assassin, or Ranger, but that doesn't mean that every class should see the same result in each.
As I've said before, if they want sameness they may as well do away with classes. Last I checked, this was still an RPG and not an adventure game. Differences in class performance should be more than superficial; ability choice more than aesthetic preference.
Of course every class has their pros and cons. Templar is the best healer and DK is the best tank. And they will still be. Doesn't mean we shouldn't make non-Templar healers as viable as we can, Templar will still be the best class in healing, so what's the deal?
Except it won't. For raw heals, Pet Sorc is looking better to most healers I talk to.
For tanking, with the nerf to resource recovery, you'll probably fare better taking with an Argonian NB or a Warden than a DK. The only thing that significantly helped as a DK was Battle Roar and Major Mending.
For other utility, now you'll be fine with generic skills like Bone Shield and Mystic Orb.
The deal is that they're removing so many of the pros, or making the difference of pros and cons so miniscule that it's nearing the point of classes being pointless or purely aesthetic.
What do these proposed changes boil down to? A vocal minority with the biggest crab mentality I've ever witnessed.
Pet sorc healer is looking better? If so Nightblade DD is the best DD in PvE. Sorc healer will still be the worst class in healing (not saying they won't be viable, with the change to orb they will be viable, but will still fall behind DK/NB/Templar healers). If you think spamming twilight is how a sorc heals, that's incorrect. Sorc healer also spam spring, and as they don't have minor mending, they fall behind templar in spring spamming. Twilight is just an oh-**** button that takes 2 slots on your bars.
For tanking, you can watch Woeler's video regarding that issue. He is a very good tank player and very knowledgable in his role, and he assured that the sustain changes will be fine for tanks.
For utilities, I have said this before:hmsdragonfly wrote: »Back to the root of the issue, this is absolutely ZoS's fault at class designing. They gave Templar's Shard, but they didn't anticipate that the ability to restore stamina to the group would become the job of a healer. Now that they give everyone else something similar to shard, people who rolled a Templar feel threaten by the competition, they don't even care if Templar still has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, but, that's just human nature, I don'T blame them.
Good thing ZoS didn't monopolize Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK lol, imagine all the uproar it would have caused if ZoS had monopolized Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK then decided to change later by introducing something similar in 1HS skill line. "OMG ZOS you kill DK tanks, what's the reason to play a DK tank now that everyone has access to Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash! They are DK's class defining abilities! Those Non-DK tanks can use Tormentor and Knightmare, who care about them! Try to give them something else instead without nerfing DK tanks to the ground!", yep, that would have happened.
But then again, given time, people will soon realize that Templar is still be the best class in healing and competitive raids will still be full of Templar healers. Then people will completely forget what happened
And still DK has tools no other class has for tanking, maybe warden has some of them pull and reflect, but still this wasnt taken away from DK + still its the only class that combines things like buffs for whole group, roots, pull, reflect... Show me one, just one uniqe ability for templar now that will justify presence of a templar in group
The only DK skills most tanks slot are extended chains, Hardened Armor and Igneous Shield.
Front Bar: Absorb Magicka, Pierce Armor, Heroic Slash, Hardened Armor, Igneous Shield, Reviving Barrier.
Back Bar: Extended Chains, Inner Fire, Echoing Vigor, Flex 1, Flex 2, and Aggressive Warhorn. For my flex slots I usually do fine with Purge and Circle of Protection. Most DPS are (should be) chugging pots so Igneous Weapons is pointless.
With Igneous Shield being trash now, Hardened Armor having other replacements, and Battle Roar being nerfed, there's no reason to really tank with that opposed to a NB. Chains isn't that important.
Spear Shards, however, still get where they need to go faster and more accurately, and don't have to be picked up right then and there. Orbs will still float past and if the tank missed the synergy due to bad timing (like needing to block), then it'll take forever for the next one to get there.
That said, I still think a Sorc will be more useful if things don't go perfectly. Now that BoL isn't omnidirectional, it should at least get back the +2 target heal.0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭All the Templar ladies hitting on Fengrush...and not in a good way.
@FENGRUSH - I understand the points you are trying to make, but you come in here and talk like that, while we try to either come to terms with the changes, provide (as unbiased as possible) feedback, work things out with what we have available and maybe cringe at incrementals - uncool.
Honestly, the only change I am upset about is gutting Repentance (and I am very upset about it). *For me* - everything else is fine, even a buff. But does that mean that other people should not get to share their frustration at what is basically a very drastic change?
Whether you, or me or Billy believe that it's warranted or not - it doesn't matter - a change like this, that basically takes away some of the class uniqueness, is going to create a lot of distress.
Especially since we're talking about a game here - you know - those things that are supposed to be fun?
I wasnt really poking at the templar population in a serious fashion - I dont even know if a post that argues against the changes for the sake of playing the game while eating a burrito should be taken that serious. Im sorry that offended people on a serious level. Ive been arguing against changes that you seem to agree with and will continue to do so in the ways I can. I also am trying to stop the doom + gloom PoVs that state the templar is officially a worthless class on all fronts from people that dont have the ability to back that claim.Jemcrystal wrote: »I just want a healer that is easy. As in the one class you can eat a burrito, watch youtube, and run a dungeon all at the same time. There is no easy dungeon running class in this game with this balance obsession. It's to much like Square Enix's Final Fantasy XI. All of a sudden you have to work at being a healer. Research, builds, best armor. I miss the days (in general mmo gaming) when healer was harder to take down than a tank even if they showed up in the nude and could "/follow" the group and just had to hit a button if the screen started showing red. I don't want to work at a game. I want to play at a game. I miss the easy life. It made queue up on dungeon finders quicker - you only had to hunt high and low for a tank.
Every templars feels right now
You're playing a stamsorc on Azuras Star wearing tumorscale and viper... And you're saying templars want easy mode, often ranting about how broken some builds (that you can't kill under 3 seconds) are.
I do argue against broken builds. Ive been talking about tremor for awhile - they finally adjusted the snare time this PTS patch. They should still make the actual proc time of it longer than 4 though. It snares on cooldown and does decent damage - its a strong set.
If you think Im running an *honorable build only stream* - I am not. If you go out to Cyrodiil and put yourself in situations where youre outnumbered constantly and cut out concepts 'that are broken'... youre not going to get very far. Proc sets are strong, but having put a minimal amount of time on my templar Ive made a templar build that would be completely unharmed by my stam sorc as well in group play. It would not only keep itself alive, but any others around taking a substantial amount of pressure. Add 2 more of these templars and suddenly you have a fortress that takes an unbelievable amount of pressure to take down. Healing is good, teamplay should be encouraged, but broken design should be addressed. The reality is, any stam build could use the setup I have on my stam sorc, and do very well with it. This is something Ive talked about plenty.
Its fine to complain about what Im doing on my stam sorc, if you take it to CP campaign it becomes even less effective. CP environment lags and is overall much less enjoyable gameplay from that perspective from me. But make no mistake, it is not as bad as templar healing in group play to the overall health of Cyrodiil on current live build. So yes - if you are a templar that is arguing against knocking down their healing in any way, call it 'wanting easy mode', call it whatever you want. I say its bad for the game. The fact that they recognize this and are trying to take action is a good thing. It must be kept in balance - and from templars Ive talked to on PTS they are able to adapt thus far. Eliminating team synergies doesnt do anyone favors, and were fighting against that.
Thanks for taking jabs though. If youd like to try to take out my templar with any class build feel free to let me know - I will show you how little you can do to me on any class setups.. CP or nonCP - while still providing full coverage of healing to an entire group. Its OK to be a full blown tank, but not if youre also providing an extremely high coverage of healing to your group with no downtime.
Edited by FENGRUSH on April 25, 2017 1:57PM0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »I am getting really tired of these insults: "Templars are just a simple healing class" etc.
I wonder how many times us simple, privileged Templars that deserve to get nerfed to oblivion in your opinion have kept your asses alive and your resources going during the game?
Skip it already! A nightblade, dragonknight or a sorc would have done the same, but because they didn't get the CORE-supportskills, they where never chosen to be healer. You and all the other templars, who are used be the one and only, are just not capable to accept that YOU ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL ANYMORE
/rant
Are you serious? If you were all this time so envious to people who chose to play templars, why didn't you just make one yourself?
This is not about "being special". This is about crippling a class. Maybe you enjoy to see it happening to others, I certainly don't and wouldn't wish it on any sorc, NB (that is too late unfortunately) or DK.
It's difficult to understand people this spiteful exist.
Yeah right. I already play 2 of them. The people, which are playing it are not in my interest. You could feel special all day long. I don't care.
It is not about crippling a class. It is about to make an too good class comparable. The class was to good for healing and supporting and now this is gone. Now It is still good or even slightly better as the others. But you feel entiteled to be the unreachable healer for chosing the templar. Now you have to work for your place as a healer. And you can't accept it. You got 3 years of beeing the best by default. I hope you enjoyed this time enough. And when you major up, you can stop the salt in the end...
What's the point in even having classes if everyone is going to be able to do anything just as good as anyone else? The beauty of an RPG is that you PLAY a ROLE; usually a warrior, mage, cleric, rouge, ranger, or berserker, or a subclass of them.
The QQ coming from templars is pretty pathetic. The very idea that they might not be meta healers anymore is apparently too much for them to take.
Should they never ever add another class then? They have a healer, they have a tank, they have two DPS classes (ranged and melee).
By your logic it's done, no new classes ever. All because Templars want to retain superiority forever.
I'm talking about classes, not roles. What's pathetic has been the QQ all these years who want every class to be good at everything. By that logic, yes, there's no point in even having separate classes.
In any other RPG, nobody *** that the cleric can't do as much DPS as the mage, or that the warrior can't heal as much as the cleric. It should be no different here.
If you're more concerned with aesthetics (being able to heal on a Sorcerer, NB, or DK just as good as a Templar because you like the aesthetic of those classes better), then maybe an MMO RPG isn't for you. The point of an RPG is to play a class archetype that fits in with what you wanna do, but at a sacrifice of not being able to do another thing better.
Templars should be the best clerics.
Dragonknights should be the best warriors.
Sorcerers should be the best mages.
Nightblade should be the best rogues.
And Wardens should be the best rangers.
If you wanna play something where everything performs the same no matter how it looks, go play CS:GO/COD and paint your guns. ZOS pandering to players like you is why this game has turned into Participation Trophy Simulator 3.0.
100000+ person who assumes that Templar healers will be worse than NB/Sorc/DK healers. Welcome to the party.
Btw
Magicka Dragonknights are basically Pyromancers (aka Fire mages).
Magicka Nightblades are Mages mastered in Alteration Magic.
Not going to argue but it seems like your assumption of the archetype isn't entirely correct. Every class is a mage and every class is also a warrior.
I never said that any class can't fall into another archetype. I'm just saying each class should have pros/cons to their obvious archetype. I'm aware that ZOS wanted to give everyone the potential to be either a Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Assassin, or Ranger, but that doesn't mean that every class should see the same result in each.
As I've said before, if they want sameness they may as well do away with classes. Last I checked, this was still an RPG and not an adventure game. Differences in class performance should be more than superficial; ability choice more than aesthetic preference.
Of course every class has their pros and cons. Templar is the best healer and DK is the best tank. And they will still be. Doesn't mean we shouldn't make non-Templar healers as viable as we can, Templar will still be the best class in healing, so what's the deal?
Except it won't. For raw heals, Pet Sorc is looking better to most healers I talk to.
For tanking, with the nerf to resource recovery, you'll probably fare better taking with an Argonian NB or a Warden than a DK. The only thing that significantly helped as a DK was Battle Roar and Major Mending.
For other utility, now you'll be fine with generic skills like Bone Shield and Mystic Orb.
The deal is that they're removing so many of the pros, or making the difference of pros and cons so miniscule that it's nearing the point of classes being pointless or purely aesthetic.
What do these proposed changes boil down to? A vocal minority with the biggest crab mentality I've ever witnessed.
Pet sorc healer is looking better? If so Nightblade DD is the best DD in PvE. Sorc healer will still be the worst class in healing (not saying they won't be viable, with the change to orb they will be viable, but will still fall behind DK/NB/Templar healers). If you think spamming twilight is how a sorc heals, that's incorrect. Sorc healer also spam spring, and as they don't have minor mending, they fall behind templar in spring spamming. Twilight is just an oh-**** button that takes 2 slots on your bars.
For tanking, you can watch Woeler's video regarding that issue. He is a very good tank player and very knowledgable in his role, and he assured that the sustain changes will be fine for tanks.
For utilities, I have said this before:hmsdragonfly wrote: »Back to the root of the issue, this is absolutely ZoS's fault at class designing. They gave Templar's Shard, but they didn't anticipate that the ability to restore stamina to the group would become the job of a healer. Now that they give everyone else something similar to shard, people who rolled a Templar feel threaten by the competition, they don't even care if Templar still has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, but, that's just human nature, I don'T blame them.
Good thing ZoS didn't monopolize Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK lol, imagine all the uproar it would have caused if ZoS had monopolized Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK then decided to change later by introducing something similar in 1HS skill line. "OMG ZOS you kill DK tanks, what's the reason to play a DK tank now that everyone has access to Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash! They are DK's class defining abilities! Those Non-DK tanks can use Tormentor and Knightmare, who care about them! Try to give them something else instead without nerfing DK tanks to the ground!", yep, that would have happened.
But then again, given time, people will soon realize that Templar is still be the best class in healing and competitive raids will still be full of Templar healers. Then people will completely forget what happened
And still DK has tools no other class has for tanking, maybe warden has some of them pull and reflect, but still this wasnt taken away from DK + still its the only class that combines things like buffs for whole group, roots, pull, reflect... Show me one, just one uniqe ability for templar now that will justify presence of a templar in group
Chain isn't as important as Shard.
Anyway, Repentance if they revert the nerf, we all know that nerf is BS so there's a high chance they will revert it. Backlash. That's two for you. Eclipse will see a lot of use in PvP after the buff. Remembrance in PvP.
Also, only class that has access to Minor Mending and group buff minor sorcery.Edited by hmsdragonfly on April 25, 2017 2:07PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Gomumon✭✭✭Seems more like @FENGRUSH is an opportunist...I do argue against broken builds. [...] If you think Im running an *honorable build only stream* - I am not. If you go out to Cyrodiil and put yourself in situations where youre outnumbered constantly and cut out concepts 'that are broken'... youre not going to get very far. Proc sets are strong......doing damage control/shilling on behalf of ZOS. I mean, he is finally nearing 20k subscribers on YouTube, with his monthly rate up 25% the last 30 days.The fact that they recognize this and are trying to take action is a good thing. It must be kept in balance - and from templars Ive talked to on PTS they are able to adapt thus far.If that were me and I saw major creators like Deltia and Sypher were out of the way, I'd also want to seize the opportunity to fill that void. I certainly would try to convince as many people to stick around and that these changes aren't bad, too.I also am trying to stop the doom + gloom PoVs that state the templar is officially a worthless class. [...] If youd like to try to take out my templar with any class build feel free to let me know - I will show you how little you can do to me on any class setups.. CP or nonCP - while still providing full coverage of healing to an entire group.
Illuminati confirmed.
Edited by Gomumon on April 25, 2017 2:59PM2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »I am getting really tired of these insults: "Templars are just a simple healing class" etc.
I wonder how many times us simple, privileged Templars that deserve to get nerfed to oblivion in your opinion have kept your asses alive and your resources going during the game?
Skip it already! A nightblade, dragonknight or a sorc would have done the same, but because they didn't get the CORE-supportskills, they where never chosen to be healer. You and all the other templars, who are used be the one and only, are just not capable to accept that YOU ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL ANYMORE
/rant
Are you serious? If you were all this time so envious to people who chose to play templars, why didn't you just make one yourself?
This is not about "being special". This is about crippling a class. Maybe you enjoy to see it happening to others, I certainly don't and wouldn't wish it on any sorc, NB (that is too late unfortunately) or DK.
It's difficult to understand people this spiteful exist.
Yeah right. I already play 2 of them. The people, which are playing it are not in my interest. You could feel special all day long. I don't care.
It is not about crippling a class. It is about to make an too good class comparable. The class was to good for healing and supporting and now this is gone. Now It is still good or even slightly better as the others. But you feel entiteled to be the unreachable healer for chosing the templar. Now you have to work for your place as a healer. And you can't accept it. You got 3 years of beeing the best by default. I hope you enjoyed this time enough. And when you major up, you can stop the salt in the end...
What's the point in even having classes if everyone is going to be able to do anything just as good as anyone else? The beauty of an RPG is that you PLAY a ROLE; usually a warrior, mage, cleric, rouge, ranger, or berserker, or a subclass of them.
The QQ coming from templars is pretty pathetic. The very idea that they might not be meta healers anymore is apparently too much for them to take.
Should they never ever add another class then? They have a healer, they have a tank, they have two DPS classes (ranged and melee).
By your logic it's done, no new classes ever. All because Templars want to retain superiority forever.
I'm talking about classes, not roles. What's pathetic has been the QQ all these years who want every class to be good at everything. By that logic, yes, there's no point in even having separate classes.
In any other RPG, nobody *** that the cleric can't do as much DPS as the mage, or that the warrior can't heal as much as the cleric. It should be no different here.
If you're more concerned with aesthetics (being able to heal on a Sorcerer, NB, or DK just as good as a Templar because you like the aesthetic of those classes better), then maybe an MMO RPG isn't for you. The point of an RPG is to play a class archetype that fits in with what you wanna do, but at a sacrifice of not being able to do another thing better.
Templars should be the best clerics.
Dragonknights should be the best warriors.
Sorcerers should be the best mages.
Nightblade should be the best rogues.
And Wardens should be the best rangers.
If you wanna play something where everything performs the same no matter how it looks, go play CS:GO/COD and paint your guns. ZOS pandering to players like you is why this game has turned into Participation Trophy Simulator 3.0.
100000+ person who assumes that Templar healers will be worse than NB/Sorc/DK healers. Welcome to the party.
Btw
Magicka Dragonknights are basically Pyromancers (aka Fire mages).
Magicka Nightblades are Mages mastered in Alteration Magic.
Not going to argue but it seems like your assumption of the archetype isn't entirely correct. Every class is a mage and every class is also a warrior.
I never said that any class can't fall into another archetype. I'm just saying each class should have pros/cons to their obvious archetype. I'm aware that ZOS wanted to give everyone the potential to be either a Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Assassin, or Ranger, but that doesn't mean that every class should see the same result in each.
As I've said before, if they want sameness they may as well do away with classes. Last I checked, this was still an RPG and not an adventure game. Differences in class performance should be more than superficial; ability choice more than aesthetic preference.
Of course every class has their pros and cons. Templar is the best healer and DK is the best tank. And they will still be. Doesn't mean we shouldn't make non-Templar healers as viable as we can, Templar will still be the best class in healing, so what's the deal?
Except it won't. For raw heals, Pet Sorc is looking better to most healers I talk to.
For tanking, with the nerf to resource recovery, you'll probably fare better taking with an Argonian NB or a Warden than a DK. The only thing that significantly helped as a DK was Battle Roar and Major Mending.
For other utility, now you'll be fine with generic skills like Bone Shield and Mystic Orb.
The deal is that they're removing so many of the pros, or making the difference of pros and cons so miniscule that it's nearing the point of classes being pointless or purely aesthetic.
What do these proposed changes boil down to? A vocal minority with the biggest crab mentality I've ever witnessed.
Pet sorc healer is looking better? If so Nightblade DD is the best DD in PvE. Sorc healer will still be the worst class in healing (not saying they won't be viable, with the change to orb they will be viable, but will still fall behind DK/NB/Templar healers). If you think spamming twilight is how a sorc heals, that's incorrect. Sorc healer also spam spring, and as they don't have minor mending, they fall behind templar in spring spamming. Twilight is just an oh-**** button that takes 2 slots on your bars.
For tanking, you can watch Woeler's video regarding that issue. He is a very good tank player and very knowledgable in his role, and he assured that the sustain changes will be fine for tanks.
For utilities, I have said this before:hmsdragonfly wrote: »Back to the root of the issue, this is absolutely ZoS's fault at class designing. They gave Templar's Shard, but they didn't anticipate that the ability to restore stamina to the group would become the job of a healer. Now that they give everyone else something similar to shard, people who rolled a Templar feel threaten by the competition, they don't even care if Templar still has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, but, that's just human nature, I don'T blame them.
Good thing ZoS didn't monopolize Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK lol, imagine all the uproar it would have caused if ZoS had monopolized Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK then decided to change later by introducing something similar in 1HS skill line. "OMG ZOS you kill DK tanks, what's the reason to play a DK tank now that everyone has access to Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash! They are DK's class defining abilities! Those Non-DK tanks can use Tormentor and Knightmare, who care about them! Try to give them something else instead without nerfing DK tanks to the ground!", yep, that would have happened.
But then again, given time, people will soon realize that Templar is still be the best class in healing and competitive raids will still be full of Templar healers. Then people will completely forget what happened
And still DK has tools no other class has for tanking, maybe warden has some of them pull and reflect, but still this wasnt taken away from DK + still its the only class that combines things like buffs for whole group, roots, pull, reflect... Show me one, just one uniqe ability for templar now that will justify presence of a templar in group
Chain isn't as important as Shard.
Anyway, Repentance if they revert the nerf, we all know that nerf is BS so there's a high chance they will revert it. Backlash. That's two for you. Eclipse will see a lot of use in PvP after the buff. Remembrance in PvP.
Also, only class that has access to Minor Mending and group buff minor sorcery.
IF repentance changes will be reverted, then you can post it here as an example, till then just dont. Minor mending! Wow... While DK and Warden will have major mending... Minor sorcery! Wow! DK can buff everyone with major sorcery AND major brutality, but yeah, youre right! Templar can give whole group minor sorcery! Simply amazing! And backlash! Dont forget about backlash! This is must have skill for any templar healer! Well it may find some usage in PvP, when you and your group mates will find some solo guy and he will live longer than 6s, for sure it will be useful... Like a group would need a way to kill one guy but ok. For solo play, its worthless. And eclipse. Nice change, must admit it, but its still giving free cc immunity for everyone, 3s is like what? I can block, I can roll, I can heal, I can melee attack you, I can channel attack you, I can AoE attack you, I can heavy attack you (except of flame, frost and bow) and then Ill get my cc immunity? Ok cast it on me, cast it
Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »SorataArisugawa wrote: »Northern_Eve wrote: »I am getting really tired of these insults: "Templars are just a simple healing class" etc.
I wonder how many times us simple, privileged Templars that deserve to get nerfed to oblivion in your opinion have kept your asses alive and your resources going during the game?
Skip it already! A nightblade, dragonknight or a sorc would have done the same, but because they didn't get the CORE-supportskills, they where never chosen to be healer. You and all the other templars, who are used be the one and only, are just not capable to accept that YOU ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL ANYMORE
/rant
Are you serious? If you were all this time so envious to people who chose to play templars, why didn't you just make one yourself?
This is not about "being special". This is about crippling a class. Maybe you enjoy to see it happening to others, I certainly don't and wouldn't wish it on any sorc, NB (that is too late unfortunately) or DK.
It's difficult to understand people this spiteful exist.
Yeah right. I already play 2 of them. The people, which are playing it are not in my interest. You could feel special all day long. I don't care.
It is not about crippling a class. It is about to make an too good class comparable. The class was to good for healing and supporting and now this is gone. Now It is still good or even slightly better as the others. But you feel entiteled to be the unreachable healer for chosing the templar. Now you have to work for your place as a healer. And you can't accept it. You got 3 years of beeing the best by default. I hope you enjoyed this time enough. And when you major up, you can stop the salt in the end...
What's the point in even having classes if everyone is going to be able to do anything just as good as anyone else? The beauty of an RPG is that you PLAY a ROLE; usually a warrior, mage, cleric, rouge, ranger, or berserker, or a subclass of them.
The QQ coming from templars is pretty pathetic. The very idea that they might not be meta healers anymore is apparently too much for them to take.
Should they never ever add another class then? They have a healer, they have a tank, they have two DPS classes (ranged and melee).
By your logic it's done, no new classes ever. All because Templars want to retain superiority forever.
I'm talking about classes, not roles. What's pathetic has been the QQ all these years who want every class to be good at everything. By that logic, yes, there's no point in even having separate classes.
In any other RPG, nobody *** that the cleric can't do as much DPS as the mage, or that the warrior can't heal as much as the cleric. It should be no different here.
If you're more concerned with aesthetics (being able to heal on a Sorcerer, NB, or DK just as good as a Templar because you like the aesthetic of those classes better), then maybe an MMO RPG isn't for you. The point of an RPG is to play a class archetype that fits in with what you wanna do, but at a sacrifice of not being able to do another thing better.
Templars should be the best clerics.
Dragonknights should be the best warriors.
Sorcerers should be the best mages.
Nightblade should be the best rogues.
And Wardens should be the best rangers.
If you wanna play something where everything performs the same no matter how it looks, go play CS:GO/COD and paint your guns. ZOS pandering to players like you is why this game has turned into Participation Trophy Simulator 3.0.
100000+ person who assumes that Templar healers will be worse than NB/Sorc/DK healers. Welcome to the party.
Btw
Magicka Dragonknights are basically Pyromancers (aka Fire mages).
Magicka Nightblades are Mages mastered in Alteration Magic.
Not going to argue but it seems like your assumption of the archetype isn't entirely correct. Every class is a mage and every class is also a warrior.
I never said that any class can't fall into another archetype. I'm just saying each class should have pros/cons to their obvious archetype. I'm aware that ZOS wanted to give everyone the potential to be either a Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Assassin, or Ranger, but that doesn't mean that every class should see the same result in each.
As I've said before, if they want sameness they may as well do away with classes. Last I checked, this was still an RPG and not an adventure game. Differences in class performance should be more than superficial; ability choice more than aesthetic preference.
Of course every class has their pros and cons. Templar is the best healer and DK is the best tank. And they will still be. Doesn't mean we shouldn't make non-Templar healers as viable as we can, Templar will still be the best class in healing, so what's the deal?
Except it won't. For raw heals, Pet Sorc is looking better to most healers I talk to.
For tanking, with the nerf to resource recovery, you'll probably fare better taking with an Argonian NB or a Warden than a DK. The only thing that significantly helped as a DK was Battle Roar and Major Mending.
For other utility, now you'll be fine with generic skills like Bone Shield and Mystic Orb.
The deal is that they're removing so many of the pros, or making the difference of pros and cons so miniscule that it's nearing the point of classes being pointless or purely aesthetic.
What do these proposed changes boil down to? A vocal minority with the biggest crab mentality I've ever witnessed.
Pet sorc healer is looking better? If so Nightblade DD is the best DD in PvE. Sorc healer will still be the worst class in healing (not saying they won't be viable, with the change to orb they will be viable, but will still fall behind DK/NB/Templar healers). If you think spamming twilight is how a sorc heals, that's incorrect. Sorc healer also spam spring, and as they don't have minor mending, they fall behind templar in spring spamming. Twilight is just an oh-**** button that takes 2 slots on your bars.
For tanking, you can watch Woeler's video regarding that issue. He is a very good tank player and very knowledgable in his role, and he assured that the sustain changes will be fine for tanks.
For utilities, I have said this before:hmsdragonfly wrote: »Back to the root of the issue, this is absolutely ZoS's fault at class designing. They gave Templar's Shard, but they didn't anticipate that the ability to restore stamina to the group would become the job of a healer. Now that they give everyone else something similar to shard, people who rolled a Templar feel threaten by the competition, they don't even care if Templar still has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, but, that's just human nature, I don'T blame them.
Good thing ZoS didn't monopolize Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK lol, imagine all the uproar it would have caused if ZoS had monopolized Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK then decided to change later by introducing something similar in 1HS skill line. "OMG ZOS you kill DK tanks, what's the reason to play a DK tank now that everyone has access to Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash! They are DK's class defining abilities! Those Non-DK tanks can use Tormentor and Knightmare, who care about them! Try to give them something else instead without nerfing DK tanks to the ground!", yep, that would have happened.
But then again, given time, people will soon realize that Templar is still be the best class in healing and competitive raids will still be full of Templar healers. Then people will completely forget what happened
And still DK has tools no other class has for tanking, maybe warden has some of them pull and reflect, but still this wasnt taken away from DK + still its the only class that combines things like buffs for whole group, roots, pull, reflect... Show me one, just one uniqe ability for templar now that will justify presence of a templar in group
Chain isn't as important as Shard.
Anyway, Repentance if they revert the nerf, we all know that nerf is BS so there's a high chance they will revert it. Backlash. That's two for you. Eclipse will see a lot of use in PvP after the buff. Remembrance in PvP.
Also, only class that has access to Minor Mending and group buff minor sorcery.
IF repentance changes will be reverted, then you can post it here as an example, till then just dont. Minor mending! Wow... While DK and Warden will have major mending... Minor sorcery! Wow! DK can buff everyone with major sorcery AND major brutality, but yeah, youre right! Templar can give whole group minor sorcery! Simply amazing! And backlash! Dont forget about backlash! This is must have skill for any templar healer! Well it may find some usage in PvP, when you and your group mates will find some solo guy and he will live longer than 6s, for sure it will be useful... Like a group would need a way to kill one guy but ok. For solo play, its worthless. And eclipse. Nice change, must admit it, but its still giving free cc immunity for everyone, 3s is like what? I can block, I can roll, I can heal, I can melee attack you, I can channel attack you, I can AoE attack you, I can heavy attack you (except of flame, frost and bow) and then Ill get my cc immunity? Ok cast it on me, cast it
- Ok then there are 4 others skills i listed. You asked for one. I gave you 4+1.
- A lot of Templar healers are running Power of the Light right now because of the unique debuff. It's the only source of Minor Breach. Not a must-have skill? Chain isn't must have skill for DK tank either if you want to put it that way. The other morph is only good to zerg down solo players? Well, it's great for group v group fight (Battleground, hello?), because in group fights what you should do is to burst down a single target one by one, it's called "focus fire". If you play any group based MOBA or FPS you will know how important "focus fire" is in group fights. For solo it's worthless? Dude, you are talking about Templar healers/Supports and how to "justify presence of a templar in group", and now you are saying something is worthless for solo.
- Everyone has access to Major Sorcery/Brutality, the only source of Minor Sorcery is from Templar.
- About eclipse, you basically cripple a magicka player, remove him completely from a fight for 3 seconds, imagine how strong it will be in battleground, you can basically keep your fight 4v3 all the time by eclipse each target one by one. Cast it on you? OK. Don't cry when some Templar casts in on your group in BG :P
- DK's major mending uptime will be pathetic next patch. Warden's major mending uptime will also be low, 3 seconds of Major mending when you heal target below 40% HP xD. I laugh. Meanwhile, Templar's minor mending has high uptime, it's so easy to keep up 100% of the time.
Edited by hmsdragonfly on April 25, 2017 3:39PMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The thing that scares me the most about the repent change is how unbalanced it is. And how that seems to be ok with them. How do you balance templar regen when 1 templar in the group during fights with adds has free stamina regen?
Do you balance for that? Are stamplars expected to be running this to get good numbers? Well to bad it only works on 1 in a group. Are they not expected to run it to get good numbers? Well then in the times they have near unlimited stamina they will be very very strong.
It would be the same issue with any class. Oh sorcs/nbs have a way to have near infinite magika in fights? Ok well then you sort of need to plan for that when you balance them, oh but only one in a group/raid the others are hosed...
i know the game has bigger issues and balance really isn't so close that this matters to much. But the idea of it makes me scratch my head. If you are messing around with the skill anyway, why give yourself a possible headache in the future?
0 -
NightbladeMechanics✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game.
Do you have plans for removing Battle Spirit in the future? Halve player damage and healing and shield tooltips, halve PvE mob health pools to compensate, a few other tweaks, what else would go into that?Edited by NightbladeMechanics on April 25, 2017 4:15PMKena
Legion XIII
Excellence without elitism
Premier small scale PvP
Legend
NA/PC's original dueling and PvP community guild
Now NA/PC's dueling, BGs, small scale, GvG, and general PvP community. We float just under 500 members. Mail me in game for an invite.
Apex Predator.
Here's a great thread collecting community ideas for PvP updates.
[MEGATHREAD] Feedback Threads for Class Reps
Class Representative Feedback Discords:Nightblade Discussion:
https://discord.gg/t2Xhnu6
Dragonknight Discussion:
https://discord.gg/UHtZhz8
Sorcerer Discussion:
https://discord.gg/e3QkCS8
Templar Discussion:
https://discord.gg/WvVuSw7
Warden Discussion:
https://discord.gg/sTFY4ys
General Healing Discussion:
https://discord.gg/6CmzBFb
TONKS!
https://discord.gg/DRNYd39
Werewolf Discussion:
https://discord.gg/aDEx2ev
Vampire Discussion:
https://discord.gg/yfzck8Q0 -
phbell✭✭✭✭I have been at this game since launch and have to add my name to the lengthy list of VERY unhappy customers.
Remember Business 101 states that it costs 10x more to get a new customer than it does to keep an existing customer. Whether I stay and continue to spend my recreational $$ with ZOS depends on what happens in early June. Everyone that I know currently playing Morrowind are considering leaving the game if the game proceeds as currently planned. Of course, if enough like minded players do the same then the performance issues will sort themselves out by default.Did few hours gameplay today and my oldest classes are magic and stamina templars.
Just why the f is ZoS trying to destroy this class is beyond me.
You don't want them to do dps? You don't want them to heal either? So wtf do you developers want?
The Gina's response is this thread was just dollars, dollars, dollars and more dollars.
Yes I'am pissed off since spend a lot of time to get that class sorted and now... well..
ZOS is about to nerf themselves out of a lot of players and money....Edited by phbell on April 25, 2017 4:27PM6 -
Pops_ND_Irish✭✭✭✭✭Solution:
Dont play as one of you dont like it !
Ill just play as something else. But I will not quit.Edited by Pops_ND_Irish on April 25, 2017 4:28PM0