What's the point of running Templar healers now? (PTS natch potes)

Illurian

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Templar

• Aedric Spear
  • Spear Shards: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restore Stamina or Magicka, whichever percentage is lower. The amount restored is now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. The synergy also has a shared cooldown with the Necrotic Orb synergy.
  • Luminous Shards (Spear Shards morph): This morph now causes the synergy to also restore an equal amount of Magicka or Stamina to the casting Templar, with a 20-second cooldown.
    Developer Comments:
    This reduces the need to have a Templar to constantly feed Stamina to your Stamina DPS and Tank, while making the Spear Shards synergy more useful to Magicka builds.

• Dawn’s Wrath
  • Eclipse:
    • This ability and its morphs now last for 3.5 seconds, down from 6 seconds, but can no longer be removed with Break Free. After the effect ends, enemies will gain CC-immunity.
    • Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 20%.
  • Power of the Light (Backlash morph): Fixed an issue where the damage from this morph could be dodged.
  • Purifying Light (Backlash morph): Fixed an issue where the heal from this morph could not critically strike.
• Restoring Light
  • Mending: This passive ability now increases the healing done by Restoring Light abilities by 6/12% based on the target’s missing health, up from 5/10%.
  • Repentance (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now restores Health and Stamina based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. It also only restores Stamina to the casting Templar, but continues to restore Health to the casting Templar and his allies.
    Developer Comments:
    This will be a buff if your Maximum Stamina is below 29,700 and a nerf if it is above.
  • Rushed Ceremony: This ability and its morphs now heal friendly targets in a 180 degree cone in front of you, instead of all targets in a radius around you.
    Developer Comments:
    Rushed Ceremony has been an extremely potent heal, and we wanted to adjust its effectiveness without making the ability heal for less. With these goals in mind, we made it so the ability only heals targets in front of the Templar. This makes the ability require more strategic positioning and gives the healer more control over who gets healed. You can now position yourself to ensure an ally being attacked will be healed, rather than another player standing in the back.
  • Sacred Ground: This passive ability now grants Minor Mending instead of Major Mending when you are standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage areas of effect.
    Developer Comments:
    With a similar goal to reducing uptime on Major Mending as noted with the Igneous Shield change, Templars having 100% uptime on Major Mending by just standing within their areas of protection is stronger than we’d like and is one of the reasons they are the most desirable healer in endgame situations. We’ve changed the bonus to Minor Mending instead, but have increased the bonus from the Mending passive to compensate slightly.

The one silver lining I saw with the Morrowind CP changes was the fact that Templars would still be able to aid in resource management. However, with Repentance no longer restoring stamina to the group, and Spear Shards sharing a synergy cooldown with Necrotic Orb, what is the point of running a Templar healer? The main niche of having a Templar over any other class as a healer was the fact that Templars could support resource management so efficiently. I understand the want to reduce that, but to remove it altogether? That's a bit too far.

I understand that Major Mending was too common, but removing it completely from Templars, the only class that has an entire skill line dedicated to healing, makes no sense.

Overall, I'm very disappointed by the patch notes, and hope that some serious reconsideration is done before it appears on live.

Also, I find it hilarious that the strongest class at the moment (mag sorcs) were completely untouched, while everything else suffered significant nerfs.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

Agreed, so what's the source of major mending now? Heavy attack with resto? lol

Paraflex

I main a Templar healer in pvp and I like the changes. You will have to run light armor to support a group and have less tools to bring to the table. We don't need to excel in every part of group play. BOL and minor mending is a good change my only issue is why does the Warden the new class the only one having access to major mending permanently? That's kind of unfair because its the new class to sell...

xaraan

There really is no reason.

You could have made the argument that shards/repentance made them worth running vs Warden, now that is gone. BoL, well, this is the third major nerf to it since launch (probably some other tweaks made also, not sure) and it's almost to the point where it's worthless (it's definitely not worthwhile vs many other abilities on other classes/weapons now). Add onto that the removal of major mending, and yeah, not really a great reason to run them. Warden is the way to go, which is probably what they wanted.

And yeah, it is crazy the most OP class in the game hasn't been touched.

Illurian

xaraan wrote: »

There really is no reason.

You could have made the argument that shards/repentance made them worth running vs Warden, now that is gone. BoL, well, this is the third major nerf to it since launch (probably some other tweaks made also, not sure) and it's almost to the point where it's worthless (it's definitely not worthwhile vs many other abilities on other classes/weapons now). Add onto that the removal of major mending, and yeah, not really a great reason to run them. Warden is the way to go, which is probably what they wanted.

And yeah, it is crazy the most OP class in the game hasn't been touched.

Exactly! So instead of making a class appealing to play through having a fun, well designed kit, they make it a must play by nerfing its main competitor to the ground.

Phinix1

Why are we nerfing a support class's resource management tools in the same patch as we are removing CP resource passives?!?

Feels like I just wasted the entire bonus XP even leveling a healer just so it can be nerfed to the ground with largely pointless changes probably designed to hype Warden.

Illurian wrote: »

Also, I find it hilarious that the strongest class at the moment (mag sorcs) were completely untouched, while everything else suffered significant nerfs.

Shad0wfire99

Phinix1 wrote: »

Why are we nerfing a support class's resource management tools in the same patch as we are removing CP resource passives?!?

Feels like I just wasted the entire bonus XP even leveling a healer just so it can be nerfed to the ground with largely pointless changes probably designed to hype Warden.

Illurian wrote: »

Also, I find it hilarious that the strongest class at the moment (mag sorcs) were completely untouched, while everything else suffered significant nerfs.

This exactly. Nerf regen and cost reduction AND any tools that might be used for support? Way too much.

Lylith

templars getting *** - slapped again?

some things never change.

once more, fixing things that are not broken while what is truly broken remains.

Phinix1

Why is it so difficult to balance abilities separately for PVE and PVP?

lauykanson

In case some of the people don't know, the light and medium armor cost reduction passives have been nerfed as well from 3% each piece to 2% each piece. So for magic classes its another 5% off , so 16% from CP and 5% from LA passive = 21%

Also magicka steal nerfed as well, will restore 300 magic instead of 400

Won't be surprised if 7/7 LA becomes viable again, or people will have to put 3 cost reduction glyphs on jewelry

Cadbury

MFW I saw the Templar nerfs:





...well...I'm speechless.

KochDerDamonen

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

Lyserus

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

so...are u saying

Make any class can dps
Make any class can tank
Templar is never good healer, they are not best dps and tank either, they are just broken so nerf them even more
Sorceror can doing anything best, but not healer, so let them op at healling too?

KochDerDamonen

Lyserus wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

so...are u saying

Make any class can dps
Make any class can tank
Templar is never good healer, they are not best dps and tank either, they are just broken so nerf them even more
Sorceror can doing anything best, but not healer, so let them op at healling too?

@Lyserus I'm saying Templar was not providing a healthy amount of support and healing, they were grossly over-supplying in both categories and preventing other classes from even being a choice. They should have received dps-usability and mitigation buffs in the same patch, but the nerfs to their healing and utility is absolutely justified.

I say this as someone who mains a templar healer.

CutestCorgi

At least Wardens will have easy access to Major Mending.

Illurian

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

so...are u saying

Make any class can dps
Make any class can tank
Templar is never good healer, they are not best dps and tank either, they are just broken so nerf them even more
Sorceror can doing anything best, but not healer, so let them op at healling too?

@Lyserus I'm saying Templar was not providing a healthy amount of support and healing, they were grossly over-supplying in both categories and preventing other classes from even being a choice. They should have received dps-usability and mitigation buffs in the same patch, but the nerfs to their healing and utility is absolutely justified.

I say this as someone who mains a templar healer.

By this logic, magsorcs should also be thrown off a cliff. Why play a magicka dps that isn't a Sorcerer? But no, they weren't even touched.

Templar may have over-compensated in terms of resource support live, but with the global CP changes and overall resource reduction, I would argue that current Templars would have had an adequate amount of resource support.

NewBlacksmurf

On a serious note....I'm done with this game.

I need to figure out how to cancel Morrowind possibly as well.

If y'all need anything I'll read the forums but moving to Elite Dangerous and some GR Wildlands off and on

KochDerDamonen

Illurian wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

so...are u saying

Make any class can dps
Make any class can tank
Templar is never good healer, they are not best dps and tank either, they are just broken so nerf them even more
Sorceror can doing anything best, but not healer, so let them op at healling too?

@Lyserus I'm saying Templar was not providing a healthy amount of support and healing, they were grossly over-supplying in both categories and preventing other classes from even being a choice. They should have received dps-usability and mitigation buffs in the same patch, but the nerfs to their healing and utility is absolutely justified.

I say this as someone who mains a templar healer.

By this logic, magsorcs should also be thrown off a cliff. Why play a magicka dps that isn't a Sorcerer? But no, they weren't even touched.

Templar may have over-compensated in terms of resource support live, but with the global CP changes and overall resource reduction, I would argue that current Templars would have had an adequate amount of resource support.

@Illurian i did not say anything about sorcerers being fine, did i? This contradicts nothing of what I had said. Regardless of the status of the classes in terms of dps and mitigation disparity, templar has provided too much group health and resource sustain. It provided more than other classes, and more than was necessary to complete any content while othet classes could barely provide any resource support and less health.

Cêltic421

So repentance no longer restores stamina to the group, shards and orbs share the same timer...Ugh

The only good thing I like us now shards will give templars resources. At a cost.

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

You are the only one that thinks they are not good healers lol

brandonv516

Does this nerf to templar BoL make sorcerer pet healer more desired (no cone)?

I've personally found the sorcerer pet heal to be really good with the right build.

KochDerDamonen

Cêltic421 wrote: »

So repentance no longer restores stamina to the group, shards and orbs share the same timer...Ugh

The only good thing I like us now shards will give templars resources. At a cost.

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

You are the only one that thinks they are not good healers lol

@Cêltic421 Broken, I said they are not good but broken. As in, they were grossly outperforming other classes while the other classes were mostly incapable of filling the healer role in serious content at all.

Sorry if I worded this in an unclear way.

Phinix1

Cêltic421 wrote: »

So repentance no longer restores stamina to the group, shards and orbs share the same timer...Ugh

The only good thing I like us now shards will give templars resources. At a cost.

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

You are the only one that thinks they are not good healers lol

You forgot that both Shards and Orbs now restore Stamina or Magicka whichever is lower. So if you are a magicka user that just roll dodged, too bad for you no useful resources!

Pointless patch of pointlessness has determined not enough RNG in game. Proceeding to add RNG to critical resource management tools.

Illurian

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

so...are u saying

Make any class can dps
Make any class can tank
Templar is never good healer, they are not best dps and tank either, they are just broken so nerf them even more
Sorceror can doing anything best, but not healer, so let them op at healling too?

@Lyserus I'm saying Templar was not providing a healthy amount of support and healing, they were grossly over-supplying in both categories and preventing other classes from even being a choice. They should have received dps-usability and mitigation buffs in the same patch, but the nerfs to their healing and utility is absolutely justified.

I say this as someone who mains a templar healer.

By this logic, magsorcs should also be thrown off a cliff. Why play a magicka dps that isn't a Sorcerer? But no, they weren't even touched.

Templar may have over-compensated in terms of resource support live, but with the global CP changes and overall resource reduction, I would argue that current Templars would have had an adequate amount of resource support.

@Illurian i did not say anything about sorcerers being fine, did i? This contradicts nothing of what I had said. Regardless of the status of the classes in terms of dps and mitigation disparity, templar has provided too much group health and resource sustain. It provided more than other classes, and more than was necessary to complete any content while othet classes could barely provide any resource support and less health.

Exactly, Templars had a niche of being chosen as healers. DKs (and NBs) worked great as tanks, and Sorcerers as dps because god damage.

You might have had a case if you advocated reducing the amount of resource support Templars provided, but agreeing with its removal entirely is simply a knee-jerk reaction that isn't justified, especially taking into account the global resource management nerfs. There is literally no reason to run a Templar at all. They aren't the best tanks, aren't the best dps, and now aren't the best healers.

s7732425ub17_ESO

What is the nerf to Breath of Life? Can't find it in patch notes.

Disregard. Rushed Ceremony = Breath of Life. Boo 180 degrees.

Illurian

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

What is the nerf to Breathe of Life? Can't find it in patch notes.

Rushed Ceremony: This ability and its morphs now heal friendly targets in a 180 degree cone in front of you, instead of all targets in a radius around you.

Nerouyn

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Templar

• Aedric Spear
  • Spear Shards: The synergy from this ability and its morphs now restore Stamina or Magicka, whichever percentage is lower. The amount restored is now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource. The synergy also has a shared cooldown with the Necrotic Orb synergy.
  • Luminous Shards (Spear Shards morph): This morph now causes the synergy to also restore an equal amount of Magicka or Stamina to the casting Templar, with a 20-second cooldown.
    Developer Comments:
    This reduces the need to have a Templar to constantly feed Stamina to your Stamina DPS and Tank, while making the Spear Shards synergy more useful to Magicka builds.

I like the new luminous shards.

I'd noticed a similar restoring-lowest-resource thing on several warden abilities so had half expected similar to be rolled out across the board. That I don't like but kind of understand. I think they're trying to make the abilities more flexible to benefit both magicka and stamina characters, but one big downside is that if you're using these abilities for yourself, you need to check which of your own stamina and magicka is lower to know what effect the ability will have.

That's more look-at-the-UI which isn't ideal.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Rushed Ceremony: This ability and its morphs now heal friendly targets in a 180 degree cone in front of you, instead of all targets in a radius around you.

OMG this is a great one. Finally.

One of the things I've always hated most about Templars is their PBAOE design because they were originally designed as melee healers, with wardens being the ranged guys. This is a great new morph which significantly increases the appeal of Templars for me, without ruining the ability for those who like it as PBAOE. Cos they can take the other morph.

More morphs should be like this.

• Sacred Ground: This passive ability now grants Minor Mending instead of Major Mending when you are standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage areas of effect.

Also glad of this one because I always thought it was too OP for Templars to have perma major mending.

Cadbury

Good thing I use Honor the Dead.


...Oh.

Illurian

Nerouyn wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Rushed Ceremony: This ability and its morphs now heal friendly targets in a 180 degree cone in front of you, instead of all targets in a radius around you.

OMG this is a great one. Finally.

One of the things I've always hated most about Templars is their PBAOE design because they were originally designed as melee healers, with wardens being the ranged guys. This is a great new morph which significantly increases the appeal of Templars for me, without ruining the ability for those who like it as PBAOE. Cos they can take the other morph.

More morphs should be like this.

Uhm. Read the bolded part again. Both morphs are affected.

Nerouyn wrote: »

• Sacred Ground: This passive ability now grants Minor Mending instead of Major Mending when you are standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage areas of effect.

Also glad of this one because I always thought it was too OP for Templars to have perma major mending.

And yet Wardens will get perma major mending, but you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Templars have no source of Major Mending now, aside from heavy attacking with the restoration staff.

KochDerDamonen

Illurian wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Lyserus wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

This is a good thing.

Templars were never good healers/supports, they've been broken. Any class can dps, any class can tank (DK and NB moreso in vTrials) but you might maybe see a sorc off-healer rarely.

Down with the op free sustain

so...are u saying

Make any class can dps
Make any class can tank
Templar is never good healer, they are not best dps and tank either, they are just broken so nerf them even more
Sorceror can doing anything best, but not healer, so let them op at healling too?

@Lyserus I'm saying Templar was not providing a healthy amount of support and healing, they were grossly over-supplying in both categories and preventing other classes from even being a choice. They should have received dps-usability and mitigation buffs in the same patch, but the nerfs to their healing and utility is absolutely justified.

I say this as someone who mains a templar healer.

By this logic, magsorcs should also be thrown off a cliff. Why play a magicka dps that isn't a Sorcerer? But no, they weren't even touched.

Templar may have over-compensated in terms of resource support live, but with the global CP changes and overall resource reduction, I would argue that current Templars would have had an adequate amount of resource support.

@Illurian i did not say anything about sorcerers being fine, did i? This contradicts nothing of what I had said. Regardless of the status of the classes in terms of dps and mitigation disparity, templar has provided too much group health and resource sustain. It provided more than other classes, and more than was necessary to complete any content while othet classes could barely provide any resource support and less health.

Exactly, Templars had a niche of being chosen as healers. DKs (and NBs) worked great as tanks, and Sorcerers as dps because god damage.

You might have had a case if you advocated reducing the amount of resource support Templars provided, but agreeing with its removal entirely is simply a knee-jerk reaction that isn't justified, especially taking into account the global resource management nerfs. There is literally no reason to run a Templar at all. They aren't the best tanks, aren't the best dps, and now aren't the best healers.

It is precisely not my fault that Zos doesn't have balance in whack. When the reason to use templars as healers is "no one else can restore a noticable fraction of the resources" my thought is that it's broken. It's not a good unique reason to use a class for something if they're simply the only one that can do it correctly.

I stand by saying the nerf is justified. I also think the classes are imbalanced and suffer from a lack of (or too much) identity. Enemies all take the same damage from different damage types, crits, no locational damage, no reason to want to be in melee range over ranged. Hence there's very little zos can do to make the classes unique without just giving them a very core mechanic that is necessary to perform a role and keeping it from others.

Abolish classes, make mobs more varied that meaningful unique traits could be given to the classes without shoehorning them into a role, or club classes into dedicated roles. These are the three extremes that ESO seems deadly afraid to move towards. Until they do, we're in a limbo of imbalance where everything 'works' up until certain content difficulties.

s7732425ub17_ESO

I'm not in favor of ZOS touching fundamental class skills.

Every class has fundamental skills that are very strong. Looked at individually, they seem OP. But when you know that every class has a few of these, you start to see the balance in having them. If ZOS nerfs these skills for one class but doesn't touch every other class, then things start to get off balance.

Repentance is a Templar fundamental skill. Major nerf.
Breath of Life is a Templar fundamental skill. Major nerf.

Nebthet78

These changes to cp and the major nerfing happening is basically proving to me that it is now time to quit this game and go get a real life.