What's the point of running Templar healers now? (PTS natch potes)

timidobserver

For me, the nerf to our healing and support would be fine if there were any improvements of note to other things.

The issue is all of the loss with very little gain. I'd like to see some noticeable improvements to balance out the nerfs. For example, adding CC, mobility, or improving tanking viability.

This patch makes Templar worse in every way and better in no way.

UppGRAYxDD

Lore_lai

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Anyone ever stop to think that maybe just maybe it's gear that is causing problems?

YAS PLEASE REPEAT THIS PLEEEEEASE.

Been saying this FOREVER. It's GEAR. GEAR IS AN ISSUE. Take out these stupid sets like reactive, malubeth, tremorscale, viper, selene's, troll king, etc. and you will see that literally gear is the biggest issue out of all the other "issues". You can't kill a Templar in Reactive/Black-Rose/Malubeth? LOOK at what they're running. Of course they're hard to kill, the game is literally playing itself for these players.

Pretty much this.
And I doubt stuff like that is going to change any time soon.
CP is over the top and yet classes are nerfed - what happens in nonCP then?
Gear is overperforming and especially certain gear combinations, and yet classes are nerfed - what happens to specs who *don't* use those?
Overperforming set combinations + CP allinOne = well you draw your own conclusion.
Gear and CP are IMO very strong variables and I don't know how they will ever manage to balance around those.

phbell

ashenb14_ESO wrote: »

Fuxo wrote: »

This is getting ridiculous. The real problem in PvP is..

they fact they insist on balancing pvp and pve at the same time with the same "tweaks" despite the fact a huge % of the pve players have less then zero interest in pvp.... and alot of pvp players arent really into pve unless its in a world pvp setting....

you really cant blanace them and keep them connected you endup screwing over PvE players because PvP is unbalanced over and over...and over and over...

perhaps its time to have 2 live servers, one with full world pvp and factions re-enabled, and one without pvp... could change cyrodil into a pve swarm defense against AI attackers setup (something we talked about from the start...that i still thinks a great idea....as it would allow them to use the same content just with tweaks to skills/sets/cp/etc targeted at the content the player base is actually playing...

i still say, gw2's spvp is far supperior to how eso handles pvp... spvp everybody has the same gear/skill sets/options it all comes down to how well you play, your skill, not what gear somebody has or how many cp they have, or any of that crap...

it was one of the few times i enjoied pvp from time to time...because unlike games such as neverwinter and eso...nobody had gear or skills that anybody else couldnt access.... it really does come down to skill.... and...im not that skilled 1v1 but, im evil as support ranged dps ...or was LOL (really only tried it because a friend begged me to take the last spot so they had a full team and he knew i could learn quickly to hold my own/get away...LOL)

if this patch goes live i think gw2 is getting dusted off till they get some sort of pve balance back...and my sub will be going bye bye...

Well stated! I always get flamed when I suggest that ESO PvP should adopt the NASCAR approach and just make everyone run with the same build, skills, and gear. Then all the whining about the FOTM being OP would be gone with the added benefit of detecting the Cheat Engine users much more easily.

Perhaps an exploration of GW2 is in order. I resent the practice of PvP balancing (no mater how valid the complaint) on the back of PvE.

Illurian

phbell wrote: »

Perhaps an exploration of GW2 is in order. I resent the practice of PvP balancing (no mater how valid the complaint) on the back of PvE.

GW2 has also suffered from this syndrome quite a bit (Alacrity nerf being the biggest example).

But I agree, PvP and PvE should not be merged in terms of balance. What's annoying is that they are already balancing PvP and PvE separately for specific skills and effects.

Gomumon

phbell wrote: »

ashenb14_ESO wrote: »

Fuxo wrote: »

This is getting ridiculous. The real problem in PvP is..

they fact they insist on balancing pvp and pve at the same time with the same "tweaks" despite the fact a huge % of the pve players have less then zero interest in pvp.... and alot of pvp players arent really into pve unless its in a world pvp setting....

you really cant blanace them and keep them connected you endup screwing over PvE players because PvP is unbalanced over and over...and over and over...

perhaps its time to have 2 live servers, one with full world pvp and factions re-enabled, and one without pvp... could change cyrodil into a pve swarm defense against AI attackers setup (something we talked about from the start...that i still thinks a great idea....as it would allow them to use the same content just with tweaks to skills/sets/cp/etc targeted at the content the player base is actually playing...

i still say, gw2's spvp is far supperior to how eso handles pvp... spvp everybody has the same gear/skill sets/options it all comes down to how well you play, your skill, not what gear somebody has or how many cp they have, or any of that crap...

it was one of the few times i enjoied pvp from time to time...because unlike games such as neverwinter and eso...nobody had gear or skills that anybody else couldnt access.... it really does come down to skill.... and...im not that skilled 1v1 but, im evil as support ranged dps ...or was LOL (really only tried it because a friend begged me to take the last spot so they had a full team and he knew i could learn quickly to hold my own/get away...LOL)

if this patch goes live i think gw2 is getting dusted off till they get some sort of pve balance back...and my sub will be going bye bye...

Well stated! I always get flamed when I suggest that ESO PvP should adopt the NASCAR approach and just make everyone run with the same build, skills, and gear. Then all the whining about the FOTM being OP would be gone with the added benefit of detecting the Cheat Engine users much more easily.

Perhaps an exploration of GW2 is in order. I resent the practice of PvP balancing (no mater how valid the complaint) on the back of PvE.

I just don't get why they're effing messing with CP, or raising the floor, when literally all the content in the game can be done before 50, minus vet trials and some DLC dungeons. Most people are capable of everything but vet trials by C160. And there's an option for new players to PVP and level their AP without needing CP already. So wtf is the point in messing with the CP? We all know PVErs aren't complaining about *** being too easy. "YEah, ZOS, can you please add 5-10 minutes to these dungeon runs that I've farmed 200 times, adding an extra 30+ hours of artificial gameply to GRINDING? THANKS!"

Yeah, no. This is all just a ploy to push the warden, change the meta, and keep people busy farming.

maxjapank

Nifty2g wrote: »

Anyone ever stop to think that maybe just maybe it's gear that is causing problems?

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Anyone ever stop to think that maybe just maybe it's gear that is causing problems?

YAS PLEASE REPEAT THIS PLEEEEEASE.

Been saying this FOREVER. It's GEAR. GEAR IS AN ISSUE. Take out these stupid sets like reactive, malubeth, tremorscale, viper, selene's, troll king, etc. and you will see that literally gear is the biggest issue out of all the other "issues". You can't kill a Templar in Reactive/Black-Rose/Malubeth? LOOK at what they're running. Of course they're hard to kill, the game is literally playing itself for these players.

In general, this has always been the case. And I don't know how many times I've stated this to posters seeking to nerf Templars. But they just can't grasp this for some reason. In their mind, it's the Templar, and they cannot see anything else.

masterbroodub17_ESO

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

phbell wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

...
Take some advice from a business owner. Look at the people in the forums and find out who actually plays. Like me. I play every day. Look at who spends money. Like me. Look at what it would take to get people to spend money. Like server and bug fixes, not an expansion that kills the game. And if your management cant do that, fire them and hire some one who does. Deadlines keep people on task. Forced deadline put out a garbage product. And nerfing everything to make that product sell loses customers.

If you implement this patch, me and my *sold my business and retired* wallet are going to walk. And when I do... please realize that you are the last straw in a long line of MMOs that look at their wallet before looking at mine. You want my money? Make me happy. Im fed up with half hearted effort, money grab tactics and overall lousy service from game companies.

I'll be at the PC store buying up all the single player games.

Yup and the majority of the [many] friends I have in this game feel the same.

Lolololol, yeah because they're going to just stop everything and hold off for a month or two and totally revert everything.

Walk now, no sense in waiting if you intend to leave if it's implemented.

maxjapank wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Anyone ever stop to think that maybe just maybe it's gear that is causing problems?

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Anyone ever stop to think that maybe just maybe it's gear that is causing problems?

YAS PLEASE REPEAT THIS PLEEEEEASE.

Been saying this FOREVER. It's GEAR. GEAR IS AN ISSUE. Take out these stupid sets like reactive, malubeth, tremorscale, viper, selene's, troll king, etc. and you will see that literally gear is the biggest issue out of all the other "issues". You can't kill a Templar in Reactive/Black-Rose/Malubeth? LOOK at what they're running. Of course they're hard to kill, the game is literally playing itself for these players.

In general, this has always been the case. And I don't know how many times I've stated this to posters seeking to nerf Templars. But they just can't grasp this for some reason. In their mind, it's the Templar, and they cannot see anything else.

Gear is usually a runaway train in games where you have a ton of sets and set bonuses.

It has to be very carefully power-checked.

I think ZoS in their fervor to provide more and more interesting sets they've introduced power creep in a different way from most mmos.

Meanwhile crafted gear becomes more obsolete every update.

Lirkin

Here is my problem with where things are going.

When you make changes that effect both solo and other play like PVP it doesn't seem that you test it with the solo.
One of the reasons that I left other games and I have played most of the MMO RPG games is that they start trying to force grouping and make solo less viable. Changing resources so that they are more difficult effect the solo player way more than the group play! I am also not a PVPer so hate it when you make changes for PVP that effect PVE.

Also you have already modified the game to make PVP different from PVE you should do more of that instead of changing both because of how PVP is working.

Gomumon

maxjapank wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Anyone ever stop to think that maybe just maybe it's gear that is causing problems?

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Anyone ever stop to think that maybe just maybe it's gear that is causing problems?

YAS PLEASE REPEAT THIS PLEEEEEASE.

Been saying this FOREVER. It's GEAR. GEAR IS AN ISSUE. Take out these stupid sets like reactive, malubeth, tremorscale, viper, selene's, troll king, etc. and you will see that literally gear is the biggest issue out of all the other "issues". You can't kill a Templar in Reactive/Black-Rose/Malubeth? LOOK at what they're running. Of course they're hard to kill, the game is literally playing itself for these players.

In general, this has always been the case. And I don't know how many times I've stated this to posters seeking to nerf Templars.

I think there are many variables at play when something is broken. However, I do think gear plays a bigger factor than class skills for sure. Sets should definitely get an overhaul before class skills and sustain.

One thing I think would be interesting is to put set gear in tiers the way the did CP. Reduce the impact of no activity sets (sets with a broad and static buff like Hunding's Rage or Julianos), low activity sets (ones that proc with little effort like Alkosh, Clever Alchemist, Viper, etc), and increase the impact of sets that require more effort to sustain, well thought out combos or provide support, (like SPC, Tava's Favor, Netch's touch). Basically low risk/effort = low reward; high risk/effort, higher reward.

Monster Sets should be completely overhauled as well. Ever since Mega Man, I've liked the concept of being able to take away something from a boss and use it. However, Monster Sets are either too good/trash. Basically, they should be good supplements to builds like 3 piece sets and not things people focus builds entirely around. That should be reserved for 5 piece sets.

Also, some don't resemble the boss very closely. Like, Valkyn Skoria: It would make more sense to cast Igneous Shield and Petrify for free than it would summoning a meteor he never used. Engine Guardian would make more sense to summon a Dwarven spider that randomly does fire, lightning, or poison within a SMALL radius around you.

Gomumon

Lirkin wrote: »

Here is my problem with where things are going.

When you make changes that effect both solo and other play like PVP it doesn't seem that you test it with the solo.
One of the reasons that I left other games and I have played most of the MMO RPG games is that they start trying to force grouping and make solo less viable. Changing resources so that they are more difficult effect the solo player way more than the group play! I am also not a PVPer so hate it when you make changes for PVP that effect PVE.

Also you have already modified the game to make PVP different from PVE you should do more of that instead of changing both because of how PVP is working.

The problem is that most of the content is designed to be played with a group, especially PVE. If they have sets that make a solo player more powerful than 1/4 of a 4 man group using synergistic gear, then everyone just runs solo optimized sets in a group.

I don't like being "that guy" but wanting to play an MMO solo is just seems counterintuitive. You'd probably have more fun in a single player RPG that seed less changes than you would here.

Jamascus

ZOS wants us to be able to heal with any class equally but yet they have 2 classes with healing specific lines….that makes no sense, but this is from a company that removed deer from Cyrodiil to help with lag….If they really want us to heal the same with all classes they should make a healing line that combines resto. line and restoring light line and place it in a “healers” guild line.  Then have spear shards, necro orb and a warden ability do similar things.  Also replace the Templar/Warden healing lines with something else.

Changes they could make instead:

“Smart” Heals- will now heal allies in  your group  before ungrouped allies that have less health

Two-hand-no longer grants inherent bonus to spell damage while using two handed weapons
Passive-
Heavy weapons- the bonus damage while using a two handed sword no longer increases spell damage

Dual wield- no longer grants inherent bonus to spell damage while dual wielding.
Passive-
Twin Blade and Blunt- the bonus to damage done  while equipping a sword(s) no longer increases spell damage

Templar-
Aedric Spear line-
Spear shards-roll back stun nerf-player may not activate this synergy if they have used necrotic orb  in the last 6 seconds
Morph 1- stuns and does the dot, restores magicka to caster and ally that uses synergy
Morph 2- stuns and does the dot, restores stamina to caster and ally that uses synergy

Restoring Light line-
Rushed Ceremony- no change
Radiant aura-
Morph 1- on use, restores magicka and health to caster and all nearby allies
Morph 2- on use, restores stamina and health to caster and all nearby allies
Passives-
Sacred Ground-remove Major mending
Mending-add the following to current state: caster is granted major mending for 6 seconds when healing self or allies under 30% health

Warden
Skills and passives will obviously need tweaking after testing but the following should happen now
Passive-
Accelerated Growth- caster is granted major mending for 6 seconds after healing yourself or an ally under 30% health

Restoration Staff-
Blessing of Protection-remove ground effect, make it do what rushed ceremony does, have each morph do what rushed ceremony morphs do.
Force Siphon- remove cast time
Morph 1- restores magicka and health when ally hits affected target
Morph 2- restores stamina and health when ally hits affected target
Passive-
Essence Drain- remove major mending buff
Restoration Master- add the following- caster is granted major mending when healing yourself or an ally under 30% health

Undaunted-

Necrotic orb- player may not activate this synergy if they have used spear shards in the last 6 seconds
Morph 1- restores stamina to caster and ally that activates the synergy
Morph 2- restores magicka to caster and ally that activates the synergy

eliisra

Holy *** they're butchering templars

So happy I quit this game over a year ago. I don't think I would have been able to cope with these massive nerfs emotionally, if still invested in ESO and my templar lol. I feel truly sorry for you guys.

Was actually thinking of coming back for Morrowind because felt a bit nostalgic about the lore and atmosphere, than I see these utter *** changes. No thanks. I'm not masochist, so why on earth would I be interested in playing a game where my main got nerfed into a vegetable? Think I'll stick to my current MMORPG.

These sustain nerfs looks just as bad and I don't get it. No one likes playing a game based on auto attacking! It's like basic knowledge among gaming publishers and developers. Players wants to use skills, abilities and combos, not press one button.

Fun ting about ESO tho, it's so slack and casual friendly you can be inactive for a year and still not be behind in terms of progression lol. So maybe 6-12 months from now they reverted some of these mindless nerfs and I'll check again if it's worth playing.

ValeriaLencolia

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game.

Then you are committed to living in a fantasy dream world where that is even possible, no game has ever managed to fully balance PVP and PVE together, let alone a game featuring as many possible skill combinations and gear setups as this one does. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge this fact and continue to stick to your guns is I suppose admirable, but its US the people playing the game who have to deal with the awful balance while you continuously try to do the impossible.

Pops_ND_Irish

eliisra wrote: »

Holy *** they're butchering templars

So happy I quit this game over a year ago. I don't think I would have been able to cope with these massive nerfs emotionally, if still invested in ESO and my templar lol. I feel truly sorry for you guys.

Was actually thinking of coming back for Morrowind because felt a bit nostalgic about the lore and atmosphere, than I see these utter *** changes. No thanks. I'm not masochist, so why on earth would I be interested in playing a game where my main got nerfed into a vegetable? Think I'll stick to my current MMORPG.

These sustain nerfs looks just as bad and I don't get it. No one likes playing a game based on auto attacking! It's like basic knowledge among gaming publishers and developers. Players wants to use skills, abilities and combos, not press one button.

Fun ting about ESO tho, it's so slack and casual friendly you can be inactive for a year and still not be behind in terms of progression lol. So maybe 6-12 months from now they reverted some of these mindless nerfs and I'll check again if it's worth playing.

Quit the game but still whinning. Seems you need someone to tell you that it will be ok to come back.

Hehe Join the minority, Bye !