What's the point of running Templar healers now? (PTS natch potes)

SilverWF

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

The QQ coming from templars is pretty pathetic. The very idea that they might not be meta healers anymore is apparently too much for them to take.

Should they never ever add another class then? They have a healer, they have a tank, they have two DPS classes (ranged and melee).

By your logic it's done, no new classes ever. All because Templars want to retain superiority forever.

Templars were best healers, yes. But in the any another role they arent! Tanks? DK are best. DD? Sorc and NB.
What point in playing templar after this nerfs? Only if you like that word "templar" nothing else.
Even DK would be better healer than Templar.

LordSlif

Cinbri wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

Been away for few days and checked if ZoS has come to their senses about Templar funeral patch.

It seems not and not even suprised. Hope your Morrowind $$$$$$ profit plumtis due this nonsense.

It is healbot funeral patch and healbot ≠ templar. Templar is feeling alive and great, thx for concerning. But given that people love easy mode 1 button spam I not surprised with all this hysteria.

Its not about BoL, its about templars bro. Every patch... a nerf, first was the dps we lost: stun, crescent sweep, RD damage... and now heals. Everytime.

masterbroodub17_ESO

SilverWF wrote: »

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

The QQ coming from templars is pretty pathetic. The very idea that they might not be meta healers anymore is apparently too much for them to take.

Should they never ever add another class then? They have a healer, they have a tank, they have two DPS classes (ranged and melee).

By your logic it's done, no new classes ever. All because Templars want to retain superiority forever.

Templars were best healers, yes. But in the any another role they arent! Tanks? DK are best. DD? Sorc and NB.
What point in playing templar after this nerfs? Only if you like that word "templar" nothing else.
Even DK would be better healer than Templar.

If it wasn't healers it would be tanks or DPS. Remember when everyone was flipping their *** because of ice abilities? OMG DK IS DEAD11111!!!

Someone was going to get dethroned. Either that or Warden would be a roleplaying-only class. That's the reality of having competition.

simu_6b16_ESO

As a stamDK and TemplarHeal main..
This patchnotes is a mess...
If this goes live, Sorc will rule Teso in PVP and PVE

FENGRUSH

Lore_lai wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

Been away for few days and checked if ZoS has come to their senses about Templar funeral patch.

It seems not and not even suprised. Hope your Morrowind $$$$$$ profit plumtis due this nonsense.

It is healbot funeral patch and healbot ≠ templar. Templar is feeling alive and great, thx for concerning. But given that people love the way of less resistance with easy mode 1 button spam I not surprised with all this hysteria.

You do realize that Templar also means = StamPlar?
Magicka will be fine and some of the changes are actually quite nice - except fix the GD Luminous CC already - Luminous is going to be bittersweet.
But - while I think Stamplar will be fine too, I see no reason why some things are being gutted like they are in regards to sustain.
Not everyone is complaining about healbotting - actually if you look at it, most people don't even complain about the changes that would encourage healbotting. So I dunno where you're getting that from.

A lot of the stamplars seem to be OK with things on PTS Ive talked to. POTL, still can purge - great stam tools. I think the most concerning is the lack of holes they fill in for magplar being a well rounded offensive option. Its always been SO good at healing, but until they give it a rounded kit to handle itself on the magicka front offensively, its always dumped into the healbot category they are trying to wither away at.

Anyone adding comments like:

TheHsN wrote: »

as a quastion that title asks...

YOU are NOT going to run Templar Any More

isnt really providing much constructive thought and probably doesnt see how useful running a templar from a healing perspective with BOL still will be, and always be. There isnt another BOL in game, and warden isnt getting that either.


Magplar does have some good PvP offensive skills - but a couple of those morphs need to be changed. Shards stun again. I see these as no brainers. Then again - a couple classes have completely useless skills that seem like no brainers to change too.

Cinbri

Lore_lai wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

Been away for few days and checked if ZoS has come to their senses about Templar funeral patch.

It seems not and not even suprised. Hope your Morrowind $$$$$$ profit plumtis due this nonsense.

It is healbot funeral patch and healbot ≠ templar. Templar is feeling alive and great, thx for concerning. But given that people love the way of less resistance with easy mode 1 button spam I not surprised with all this hysteria.

You do realize that Templar also means = StamPlar?
Magicka will be fine and some of the changes are actually quite nice - except fix the GD Luminous CC already - Luminous is going to be bittersweet.
But - while I think Stamplar will be fine too, I see no reason why some things are being gutted like they are in regards to sustain.
Not everyone is complaining about healbotting - actually if you look at it, most people don't even complain about the changes that would encourage healbotting. So I dunno where you're getting that from.

Look at thread name.

LordSlif wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

Been away for few days and checked if ZoS has come to their senses about Templar funeral patch.

It seems not and not even suprised. Hope your Morrowind $$$$$$ profit plumtis due this nonsense.

It is healbot funeral patch and healbot ≠ templar. Templar is feeling alive and great, thx for concerning. But given that people love easy mode 1 button spam I not surprised with all this hysteria.

Its not about BoL, its about templars bro. Every patch... a nerf, first was the dps we lost: stun, crescent sweep, RD damage... and now heals. Everytime.

Every patch people focusing on nerfs and for some unknown reason completely ignoring buffs, and buffs are ver strong including many side buffs that doesn't seen on first. Try to play battleground as templar now, you will fastely notice how good templar benefit with all the changes. Also it is not all changes - there will be more changes next weeks.

OrphanHelgen

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

With that being said, one of the main concerns we want to address is the worry that we’re nerfing Templars in order to make the Warden a stronger healing class, particularly by nerfing Major Mending and giving it to Wardens. We’ve made it so all classes have to meet conditional requirements to gain Major Mending. DK’s need to have their damage shields up, Wardens have to heal low health targets, and Resto Staff users have to complete a fully charged heavy attack. It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

I think the 3 second duration of major mending after complete a fully charged heavy attack is too little. Should be atleast 5 seconds or on most same as wardens duration of major mending.

masterbroodub17_ESO

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

With that being said, one of the main concerns we want to address is the worry that we’re nerfing Templars in order to make the Warden a stronger healing class, particularly by nerfing Major Mending and giving it to Wardens. We’ve made it so all classes have to meet conditional requirements to gain Major Mending. DK’s need to have their damage shields up, Wardens have to heal low health targets, and Resto Staff users have to complete a fully charged heavy attack. It’s also worth noting that we’re planning on adjusting the Warden passive, Accelerated Growth, because it’s currently too easy to keep it active for long periods of time.

I think the 3 second duration of major mending after complete a fully charged heavy attack is too little. Should be atleast 5 seconds and on most same as wardens duration of major mending.

This I could get behind, as it benefits most everyone. 3 Seconds is very very short and you would have to constantly heavy attack to keep it up. I say 6 seconds so that you can have a cadence of sorts. This is without PTS testing though mind you.

SilverWF

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

If it wasn't healers it would be tanks or DPS.

I feel I need to repeat this and make it in different rows:
Templars ARE NOT best Tanks or DDs now and they wouldn't be it after patch.

So what a point to play Templars then?

Now it's only(!) because they are best healers and supports.

FENGRUSH

SilverWF wrote: »

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

If it wasn't healers it would be tanks or DPS.

I feel I need to repeat this and make it in different rows:
Templars ARE NOT best Tanks or DDs now and they wouldn't be it after patch.

So what a point to play Templars then?

Now it's only(!) because they are best healers and supports.

Theyre not best healers?

They were just best DPS in raids last patch. Ultimately, if theres 3 roles - someone is not going to be the 'best' at something. Welcome to nightblades life for some time. Frankly this argument holds no water for that very reason. Being the best means youre assuming some other class will suffer the same fate you dont want for yours. Great stuff!

masterbroodub17_ESO

FENGRUSH wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

If it wasn't healers it would be tanks or DPS.

I feel I need to repeat this and make it in different rows:
Templars ARE NOT best Tanks or DDs now and they wouldn't be it after patch.

So what a point to play Templars then?

Now it's only(!) because they are best healers and supports.

Theyre not best healers?

They were just best DPS in raids last patch. Ultimately, if theres 3 roles - someone is not going to be the 'best' at something. Welcome to nightblades life for some time. Frankly this argument holds no water for that very reason. Being the best means youre assuming some other class will suffer the same fate you dont want for yours. Great stuff!

This was the exact statement/sentiment I've been using since the QQ'ing started LOL

Welcome to the gimp party!

Lore_lai

Cinbri wrote: »

Look at thread name.

Yes. Look beyond thread name too, and you will see most comments are not even about "healbotting" and people QQing that ohnoses healbotting will no longer be a thing (which I somehow feel that it will still be a thing, because ppl always find a way around it).

I am very happy about some of these changes, but some of them make no sense.
Look beyond the perspective of a solo player (Magplar or Stamplar).
But when did it become a stigma to support your partner or smaller group if you are a Templar?

Next patch if I duo with a Stamplar and I want to proactively support them with a shard for their stamina, chances are that will be down the drain, because they will most likely get the magicka synergy.
And, IMO, this will hurt Stamplar the most (probably StamNB too) because they do not have a direct *convert mag to stam* like other classes do.

SilverWF

If adding new class requires ruining some of the previous ones - I don't need any new classes then.

FENGRUSH

SilverWF wrote: »

If adding new class requires ruining some of the previous ones - I don't need any new classes then.

If adding new replies to the thread requires ignoring posts that counter your last post - I dont need any new replies from you.

masterbroodub17_ESO

SilverWF wrote: »

If adding new class requires ruining some of the previous ones - I don't need any new classes then.

Drama llama. Also, you only care because it's a class you play.

Drdeath20 wrote: »

If templars were top 3 dps you would have seen more of them que

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

Gomumon wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Northern_Eve wrote: »

I am getting really tired of these insults: "Templars are just a simple healing class" etc.

I wonder how many times us simple, privileged Templars that deserve to get nerfed to oblivion in your opinion have kept your asses alive and your resources going during the game?

Skip it already! A nightblade, dragonknight or a sorc would have done the same, but because they didn't get the CORE-supportskills, they where never chosen to be healer. You and all the other templars, who are used be the one and only, are just not capable to accept that YOU ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL ANYMORE

/rant

Are you serious? If you were all this time so envious to people who chose to play templars, why didn't you just make one yourself?

This is not about "being special". This is about crippling a class. Maybe you enjoy to see it happening to others, I certainly don't and wouldn't wish it on any sorc, NB (that is too late unfortunately) or DK.

It's difficult to understand people this spiteful exist.

Yeah right. I already play 2 of them. The people, which are playing it are not in my interest. You could feel special all day long. I don't care.

It is not about crippling a class. It is about to make an too good class comparable. The class was to good for healing and supporting and now this is gone. Now It is still good or even slightly better as the others. But you feel entiteled to be the unreachable healer for chosing the templar. Now you have to work for your place as a healer. And you can't accept it. You got 3 years of beeing the best by default. I hope you enjoyed this time enough. And when you major up, you can stop the salt in the end...

What's the point in even having classes if everyone is going to be able to do anything just as good as anyone else? The beauty of an RPG is that you PLAY a ROLE; usually a warrior, mage, cleric, rouge, ranger, or berserker, or a subclass of them.

The QQ coming from templars is pretty pathetic. The very idea that they might not be meta healers anymore is apparently too much for them to take.

Should they never ever add another class then? They have a healer, they have a tank, they have two DPS classes (ranged and melee).

By your logic it's done, no new classes ever. All because Templars want to retain superiority forever.

This is just drivel. Do you honestly believe this?

So no counter-point? Next.

Silver_Strider

SilverWF wrote: »

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

If it wasn't healers it would be tanks or DPS.

I feel I need to repeat this and make it in different rows:
Templars ARE NOT best Tanks or DDs now and they wouldn't be it after patch.

So what a point to play Templars then?

Now it's only(!) because they are best healers and supports.

The same could be said about NBs. No reason to really play NB right now outside of gank builds in PvP but with stealth damage being removed they lose that as well and their sustain is going to be terrible as well after the nerf to Siphoning Attacks, so what's the point of playing a NB in Morrowind?

"Oh but you got mobility." Oh yeah, that'll be useful in running away from everyone because I can't kill a damn thing anymore. We have 0 group utility that can't be replicated with better results via other means. Veil? Nova dos the same thing, has a much greater radius, has a useful synergy, and is ranged. Shades? Heroic Slash is practically required of tanks to use anyways to help build the tank's Ultimate and for the longest time the risk of Shades stealing buffs was possible and to an extent, it still is. Funnel? Healing is STUPID easy to do without it and is a DPS loss for the group as Force Pulse > Funnel. There is absolutely nothing a NB can do at all to help out the group.

You're still going to be strong healers, you're still going to be able to give shards to people, you still have the only AoE magicka steal debuff; the only thing you're really losing is free Stamina from Repentance. Just because other classes are going to finally catch up to you in the support department does not instantly remove your purpose in the game.

Hazethemadman

It's not like Templar healers are unplayable now... so why is everyone so hot and bothered?

I mean there are multiple class choices for the dps and tank roles, but it is generally agreed that the Templar was the only class with a healing discipline (dedicated skill tree).

What, did the Templars think they would have a monopoly on healing capability forever?

Calandrae

Hazethemadman wrote: »

It's not like Templar healers are unplayable now... so why is everyone so hot and bothered?

I mean there are multiple class choices for the dps and tank roles, but it is generally agreed that the Templar was the only class with a healing discipline (dedicated skill tree).

What, did the Templars think they would have a monopoly on healing capability forever?

Well, please give my templar some useful skills to replace the healing/support skills that are now made redundant/duplicates of non-class skills?

And yes, as long as the class has the full skill-line for healing/support, I expect it to excel in that role. What would be the point of all those skills otherwise? Look pretty?

FENGRUSH

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Hazethemadman wrote: »

It's not like Templar healers are unplayable now... so why is everyone so hot and bothered?

I mean there are multiple class choices for the dps and tank roles, but it is generally agreed that the Templar was the only class with a healing discipline (dedicated skill tree).

What, did the Templars think they would have a monopoly on healing capability forever?

And yes, as long as the class has the full skill-line for healing/support, I expect it to excel in that role. What would be the point of all those skills otherwise? Look pretty?

How do you feel it does not excel in the roll?

SilverWF

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

Also, you only care because it's a class you play.

Your ability to read signatures is awesome.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

The same could be said about NBs. No reason to really play NB right now outside of gank builds in PvP but with stealth damage being removed they lose that as well and their sustain is going to be terrible as well after the nerf to Siphoning Attacks, so what's the point of playing a NB in Morrowind?

You can create thread about that and bring your points there.

hmsdragonfly

Northern_Eve wrote: »

Hazethemadman wrote: »

It's not like Templar healers are unplayable now... so why is everyone so hot and bothered?

I mean there are multiple class choices for the dps and tank roles, but it is generally agreed that the Templar was the only class with a healing discipline (dedicated skill tree).

What, did the Templars think they would have a monopoly on healing capability forever?

Well, please give my templar some useful skills to replace the healing/support skills that are now made redundant/duplicates of non-class skills?

And yes, as long as the class has the full skill-line for healing/support, I expect it to excel in that role. What would be the point of all those skills otherwise? Look pretty?

9999th person who assumes that Templar won't excel in healing/support.

Welcome to the party.

hmsdragonfly

SilverWF wrote: »

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

If it wasn't healers it would be tanks or DPS.

I feel I need to repeat this and make it in different rows:
Templars ARE NOT best Tanks or DDs now and they wouldn't be it after patch.

So what a point to play Templars then?

Now it's only(!) because they are best healers and supports.

And they will still be the best healers and supports. That is not going to change.

Grabmoore

Hazethemadman wrote: »

It's not like Templar healers are unplayable now... so why is everyone so hot and bothered?

I mean there are multiple class choices for the dps and tank roles, but it is generally agreed that the Templar was the only class with a healing discipline (dedicated skill tree).

What, did the Templars think they would have a monopoly on healing capability forever?

Worst tank, worst DDs after the radiant nerf (forced to meele), so yeah, I did expect them to be good at something....
no mobility, no source of major expedition/ sorcery ans Now mending, a non working gap closer for years and no good resource management aren't helping either!

I don't want them to be the OP class, I just want a fair environment for all, a purpose for each class.

SilverWF

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

And they will still be the best healers and supports. That is not going to change.

Not. Major mending loss removes best healer title.
Changes in Repentance and Shards removing best support title.
Try better next time.

masterbroodub17_ESO

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

If it wasn't healers it would be tanks or DPS.

I feel I need to repeat this and make it in different rows:
Templars ARE NOT best Tanks or DDs now and they wouldn't be it after patch.

So what a point to play Templars then?

Now it's only(!) because they are best healers and supports.

The same could be said about NBs. No reason to really play NB right now outside of gank builds in PvP but with stealth damage being removed they lose that as well and their sustain is going to be terrible as well after the nerf to Siphoning Attacks, so what's the point of playing a NB in Morrowind?

"Oh but you got mobility." Oh yeah, that'll be useful in running away from everyone because I can't kill a damn thing anymore. We have 0 group utility that can't be replicated with better results via other means. Veil? Nova dos the same thing, has a much greater radius, has a useful synergy, and is ranged. Shades? Heroic Slash is practically required of tanks to use anyways to help build the tank's Ultimate and for the longest time the risk of Shades stealing buffs was possible and to an extent, it still is. Funnel? Healing is STUPID easy to do without it and is a DPS loss for the group as Force Pulse > Funnel. There is absolutely nothing a NB can do at all to help out the group.

You're still going to be strong healers, you're still going to be able to give shards to people, you still have the only AoE magicka steal debuff; the only thing you're really losing is free Stamina from Repentance. Just because other classes are going to finally catch up to you in the support department does not instantly remove your purpose in the game.

This. Cry me a river.

hmsdragonfly

Back to the root of the issue, this is absolutely ZoS's fault at class designing. They gave Templar's Shard, but they didn't anticipate that the ability to restore stamina to the group would become the job of a healer. Now that they give everyone else something similar to shard, people who rolled a Templar feel threaten by the competition, they don't even care if Templar still has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, but, that's just human nature, I don'T blame them.

Good thing ZoS didn't monopolize Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK lol, imagine all the uproar it would have caused if ZoS had monopolized Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK then decided to change later by introducing something similar in 1HS skill line. "OMG ZOS you kill DK tanks, what's the reason to play a DK tank now that everyone has access to Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash! They are DK's class defining abilities! Those Non-DK tanks can use Tormentor and Knightmare, who care about them! Try to give them something else instead without nerfing DK tanks to the ground!", yep, that would have happened.

But then again, given time, people will soon realize that Templar is still be the best class in healing and competitive raids will still be full of Templar healers. Then people will completely forget what happened

hmsdragonfly

SilverWF wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

And they will still be the best healers and supports. That is not going to change.

Not. Major mending loss removes best healer title.
Changes in Repentance and Shards removing best support title.
Try better next time.

Sorc/NB healers don't have Major Mending.
DK's Major Mending will be pathetic next patch.
No one has Minor Mending except for Templar.
So who will become the best healer? Warden? Have you seen Warden's major mending uptime? No? So how do you assume that they will become the best healer?

Shard's removing? What? They are still there. Shard will be more effective than Orb so it shouldn't be any issue.

Yeah but repentance nerf is BS, that shouldn't go live.

Thealteregoroman

Northern_Eve wrote: »

If this goes live, I will quit the game.

I have mained a templar healer for 3 years now. I enjoy playing the character, I have become really good at healing.

However, I also have a fulltime job and other responsibilities. I will have no time to develop a warden healer from scratch to the level where my skill and experience with my templar is today.

If this is done to force people to switch to a warden, it will not work with me at least. I have spent too much time with my templar to start all over from scratch.

I realise I'm just one person and my opinion matters very little, but this is just too big a slap to a face.

Same.........and I love The Elderscrolls series.....so this is gonna suck. There are other games that will be coming out so I would rather start new there than start new here.

I also main a Templar Healer.

SilverWF

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Back to the root of the issue, this is absolutely ZoS's fault at class designing. They gave Templar's Shard, but they didn't anticipate that the ability to restore stamina to the group would become the job of a healer. Now that they give everyone else something similar to shard, people who rolled a Templar feel threaten by the competition, they don't even care if Templar still has all the edges in the world when it comes to healing, but, that's just human nature, I don'T blame them.

Good thing ZoS didn't monopolize Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK lol, imagine all the uproar it would have caused if ZoS had monopolized Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash to DK then decided to change later by moving it from DK class skill line to 1HS skill line. "OMG ZOS you kill DK tanks, what's the reason to play a DK tank now that everyone has access to Pierce Armour and Heroic Slash! They are DK's class defining abilities! Those Non-DK tanks can use Tormentor and Knightmare, who care about them! Try to give them something else instead without nerfing DK tanks to the ground!", yep, that would have happened.

But then again, given time, people will soon realize that Templar is still be the best class in healing and competitive raids will still be full of Templar healers. Then people will completely forget what happened

You have 3 templars at your account, I hope, some of them are healers.
And you still think, that without Major mending someone would call Templars as best healer? While there will be Warden or even DK-healer!

CaiWenji

Paraflex wrote: »

I main a Templar healer in pvp and I like the changes. You will have to run light armor to support a group and have less tools to bring to the table. We don't need to excel in every part of group play. BOL and minor mending is a good change my only issue is why does the Warden the new class the only one having access to major mending permanently? That's kind of unfair because its the new class to sell...

I used run Templar healer in PvP too. I stopped once I read that Total Dark(black ball skill and best offense against Magicka players) would now give them cc immunity once it pops. With cc immunity you can still cast on them but then it's only more like proximity detonation but crappy. If they don't have cc immunity it reflects most spells back at them. Their strength becomes their demise.