What's the point of running Templar healers now? (PTS natch potes)

phbell

Kagoky wrote: »

You all know this is part of their plot to force everyone to pay for the Warden class if they want to heal, right?

Weakening the Templar to boost the Warden does suggest a shameless manipulation to sell Morrowind.

masterbroodub17_ESO

phbell wrote: »

Kagoky wrote: »

You all know this is part of their plot to force everyone to pay for the Warden class if they want to heal, right?

Weakening the Templar to boost the Warden does suggest a shameless manipulation to sell Morrowind.

That would be stupid. If they wanted to get as much money as possible they would make it so you had to buy Morrowind in order to DPS considering that's the majority of the population.

Take off the tinfoil hats

phbell

jaye63 wrote: »

...
Take some advice from a business owner. Look at the people in the forums and find out who actually plays. Like me. I play every day. Look at who spends money. Like me. Look at what it would take to get people to spend money. Like server and bug fixes, not an expansion that kills the game. And if your management cant do that, fire them and hire some one who does. Deadlines keep people on task. Forced deadline put out a garbage product. And nerfing everything to make that product sell loses customers.

If you implement this patch, me and my *sold my business and retired* wallet are going to walk. And when I do... please realize that you are the last straw in a long line of MMOs that look at their wallet before looking at mine. You want my money? Make me happy. Im fed up with half hearted effort, money grab tactics and overall lousy service from game companies.

I'll be at the PC store buying up all the single player games.

Yup and the majority of the [many] friends I have in this game feel the same.

masterbroodub17_ESO

phbell wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

...
Take some advice from a business owner. Look at the people in the forums and find out who actually plays. Like me. I play every day. Look at who spends money. Like me. Look at what it would take to get people to spend money. Like server and bug fixes, not an expansion that kills the game. And if your management cant do that, fire them and hire some one who does. Deadlines keep people on task. Forced deadline put out a garbage product. And nerfing everything to make that product sell loses customers.

If you implement this patch, me and my *sold my business and retired* wallet are going to walk. And when I do... please realize that you are the last straw in a long line of MMOs that look at their wallet before looking at mine. You want my money? Make me happy. Im fed up with half hearted effort, money grab tactics and overall lousy service from game companies.

I'll be at the PC store buying up all the single player games.

Yup and the majority of the [many] friends I have in this game feel the same.

Lolololol, yeah because they're going to just stop everything and hold off for a month or two and totally revert everything.

Walk now, no sense in waiting if you intend to leave if it's implemented.

Edit: Didn't mean that in a spiteful way, was being totally serious. I would *** my pants if they did that.

emma666

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

All the Templar ladies hitting on Fengrush...and not in a good way.

@FENGRUSH - I understand the points you are trying to make, but you come in here and talk like that, while we try to either come to terms with the changes, provide (as unbiased as possible) feedback, work things out with what we have available and maybe cringe at incrementals - uncool.

Honestly, the only change I am upset about is gutting Repentance (and I am very upset about it). *For me* - everything else is fine, even a buff. But does that mean that other people should not get to share their frustration at what is basically a very drastic change?
Whether you, or me or Billy believe that it's warranted or not - it doesn't matter - a change like this, that basically takes away some of the class uniqueness, is going to create a lot of distress.
Especially since we're talking about a game here - you know - those things that are supposed to be fun?

I wasnt really poking at the templar population in a serious fashion - I dont even know if a post that argues against the changes for the sake of playing the game while eating a burrito should be taken that serious. Im sorry that offended people on a serious level. Ive been arguing against changes that you seem to agree with and will continue to do so in the ways I can. I also am trying to stop the doom + gloom PoVs that state the templar is officially a worthless class on all fronts from people that dont have the ability to back that claim.

emma666 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Jemcrystal wrote: »

I just want a healer that is easy. As in the one class you can eat a burrito, watch youtube, and run a dungeon all at the same time. There is no easy dungeon running class in this game with this balance obsession. It's to much like Square Enix's Final Fantasy XI. All of a sudden you have to work at being a healer. Research, builds, best armor. I miss the days (in general mmo gaming) when healer was harder to take down than a tank even if they showed up in the nude and could "/follow" the group and just had to hit a button if the screen started showing red. I don't want to work at a game. I want to play at a game. I miss the easy life. It made queue up on dungeon finders quicker - you only had to hunt high and low for a tank.

Every templars feels right now

You're playing a stamsorc on Azuras Star wearing tumorscale and viper... And you're saying templars want easy mode, often ranting about how broken some builds (that you can't kill under 3 seconds) are.

I do argue against broken builds. Ive been talking about tremor for awhile - they finally adjusted the snare time this PTS patch. They should still make the actual proc time of it longer than 4 though. It snares on cooldown and does decent damage - its a strong set.

If you think Im running an *honorable build only stream* - I am not. If you go out to Cyrodiil and put yourself in situations where youre outnumbered constantly and cut out concepts 'that are broken'... youre not going to get very far. Proc sets are strong, but having put a minimal amount of time on my templar Ive made a templar build that would be completely unharmed by my stam sorc as well in group play. It would not only keep itself alive, but any others around taking a substantial amount of pressure. Add 2 more of these templars and suddenly you have a fortress that takes an unbelievable amount of pressure to take down. Healing is good, teamplay should be encouraged, but broken design should be addressed. The reality is, any stam build could use the setup I have on my stam sorc, and do very well with it. This is something Ive talked about plenty.

Its fine to complain about what Im doing on my stam sorc, if you take it to CP campaign it becomes even less effective. CP environment lags and is overall much less enjoyable gameplay from that perspective from me. But make no mistake, it is not as bad as templar healing in group play to the overall health of Cyrodiil on current live build. So yes - if you are a templar that is arguing against knocking down their healing in any way, call it 'wanting easy mode', call it whatever you want. I say its bad for the game. The fact that they recognize this and are trying to take action is a good thing. It must be kept in balance - and from templars Ive talked to on PTS they are able to adapt thus far. Eliminating team synergies doesnt do anyone favors, and were fighting against that.

Thanks for taking jabs though. If youd like to try to take out my templar with any class build feel free to let me know - I will show you how little you can do to me on any class setups.. CP or nonCP - while still providing full coverage of healing to an entire group. Its OK to be a full blown tank, but not if youre also providing an extremely high coverage of healing to your group with no downtime.

Let me clarify, you are on the opposite side of the extreme spectrum of tankiness vs damage. Alot of people would say your build is broken, especially in Azura. You can do close to 20K damage under one second because of the sets you wear, and healers can tank it because of the sets they wear. To put it simple, your build is maximal damage output and tank healers are built to be able to outlive max damage builds like yours.

And honestly... You aren't taking jabs at every templar when you say we all want easymode gameplay, but I am taking jabs at you for calling you out on your hypocritical bs? Reality check, you aren't a lord and people will hold you accountable by what you say, especially if it's stupid. Spamming reverb and puncture til viper and tremor procs on Azura would be considered easymode, sorry to burst your bubble.

Gomumon

phbell wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

...
Take some advice from a business owner. Look at the people in the forums and find out who actually plays. Like me. I play every day. Look at who spends money. Like me. Look at what it would take to get people to spend money. Like server and bug fixes, not an expansion that kills the game. And if your management cant do that, fire them and hire some one who does. Deadlines keep people on task. Forced deadline put out a garbage product. And nerfing everything to make that product sell loses customers.

If you implement this patch, me and my *sold my business and retired* wallet are going to walk. And when I do... please realize that you are the last straw in a long line of MMOs that look at their wallet before looking at mine. You want my money? Make me happy. Im fed up with half hearted effort, money grab tactics and overall lousy service from game companies.

I'll be at the PC store buying up all the single player games.

Yup and the majority of the [many] friends I have in this game feel the same.

Whatever the change, I just wish they'd get their ducks in a row and fix what's actually broken and stabilize it before you start incorporating new changes. What they're doing with new content is akin to taking a customer's car who wants their transmission, brake, and radiator issues fixed, and giving it a new paintjob, stereo system, and tires instead, charging them for it, and telling them that their new ride will surely be much more enjoyable now.

phbell

masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »

phbell wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

...
Take some advice from a business owner. Look at the people in the forums and find out who actually plays. Like me. I play every day. Look at who spends money. Like me. Look at what it would take to get people to spend money. Like server and bug fixes, not an expansion that kills the game. And if your management cant do that, fire them and hire some one who does. Deadlines keep people on task. Forced deadline put out a garbage product. And nerfing everything to make that product sell loses customers.

If you implement this patch, me and my *sold my business and retired* wallet are going to walk. And when I do... please realize that you are the last straw in a long line of MMOs that look at their wallet before looking at mine. You want my money? Make me happy. Im fed up with half hearted effort, money grab tactics and overall lousy service from game companies.

I'll be at the PC store buying up all the single player games.

Yup and the majority of the [many] friends I have in this game feel the same.

Lolololol, yeah because they're going to just stop everything and hold off for a month or two and totally revert everything.

Walk now, no sense in waiting if you intend to leave if it's implemented.

Edit: Didn't mean that in a spiteful way, was being totally serious. I would *** my pants if they did that.

Thanks for the addendum. Without it your reply read a bit condescending.

But yes - this is exactly what I mean. For clarity. I hang with a group of like minded adults, in a guild, and we all play together. What we have in common is age (50+) and intelligence. Among us are Network Professionals, theoretical physicists, Electrical Engineers, CPA's, retired managers of international airports, etc. My point is simply that we are not millennials living in our parents basements. We all subscribe, buy crowns, and substitute this game as recreation for television. We have all been with the game since launch and play together regularly, mostly in PvE content (dungeons and trials), but also cryodill from time to time. We are the perfect customer because we have money and will spend it.

I have followed this thread with all the back and forth and it really seems that all the changes (past and present) are constantly driven by PvP. No one in my group is interested in running out of resources in a delve against a boss with 3.5M HP because of a "balancing adjustment" cried for by PvP. Simply put - this is damaging our enjoyment of the game. When this happens, customers with money simply go elsewhere for their recreation.

Time will tell the tale. About 5 weeks, I'd say....

FENGRUSH

emma666 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

All the Templar ladies hitting on Fengrush...and not in a good way.

@FENGRUSH - I understand the points you are trying to make, but you come in here and talk like that, while we try to either come to terms with the changes, provide (as unbiased as possible) feedback, work things out with what we have available and maybe cringe at incrementals - uncool.

Honestly, the only change I am upset about is gutting Repentance (and I am very upset about it). *For me* - everything else is fine, even a buff. But does that mean that other people should not get to share their frustration at what is basically a very drastic change?
Whether you, or me or Billy believe that it's warranted or not - it doesn't matter - a change like this, that basically takes away some of the class uniqueness, is going to create a lot of distress.
Especially since we're talking about a game here - you know - those things that are supposed to be fun?

I wasnt really poking at the templar population in a serious fashion - I dont even know if a post that argues against the changes for the sake of playing the game while eating a burrito should be taken that serious. Im sorry that offended people on a serious level. Ive been arguing against changes that you seem to agree with and will continue to do so in the ways I can. I also am trying to stop the doom + gloom PoVs that state the templar is officially a worthless class on all fronts from people that dont have the ability to back that claim.

emma666 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Jemcrystal wrote: »

I just want a healer that is easy. As in the one class you can eat a burrito, watch youtube, and run a dungeon all at the same time. There is no easy dungeon running class in this game with this balance obsession. It's to much like Square Enix's Final Fantasy XI. All of a sudden you have to work at being a healer. Research, builds, best armor. I miss the days (in general mmo gaming) when healer was harder to take down than a tank even if they showed up in the nude and could "/follow" the group and just had to hit a button if the screen started showing red. I don't want to work at a game. I want to play at a game. I miss the easy life. It made queue up on dungeon finders quicker - you only had to hunt high and low for a tank.

Every templars feels right now

You're playing a stamsorc on Azuras Star wearing tumorscale and viper... And you're saying templars want easy mode, often ranting about how broken some builds (that you can't kill under 3 seconds) are.

I do argue against broken builds. Ive been talking about tremor for awhile - they finally adjusted the snare time this PTS patch. They should still make the actual proc time of it longer than 4 though. It snares on cooldown and does decent damage - its a strong set.

If you think Im running an *honorable build only stream* - I am not. If you go out to Cyrodiil and put yourself in situations where youre outnumbered constantly and cut out concepts 'that are broken'... youre not going to get very far. Proc sets are strong, but having put a minimal amount of time on my templar Ive made a templar build that would be completely unharmed by my stam sorc as well in group play. It would not only keep itself alive, but any others around taking a substantial amount of pressure. Add 2 more of these templars and suddenly you have a fortress that takes an unbelievable amount of pressure to take down. Healing is good, teamplay should be encouraged, but broken design should be addressed. The reality is, any stam build could use the setup I have on my stam sorc, and do very well with it. This is something Ive talked about plenty.

Its fine to complain about what Im doing on my stam sorc, if you take it to CP campaign it becomes even less effective. CP environment lags and is overall much less enjoyable gameplay from that perspective from me. But make no mistake, it is not as bad as templar healing in group play to the overall health of Cyrodiil on current live build. So yes - if you are a templar that is arguing against knocking down their healing in any way, call it 'wanting easy mode', call it whatever you want. I say its bad for the game. The fact that they recognize this and are trying to take action is a good thing. It must be kept in balance - and from templars Ive talked to on PTS they are able to adapt thus far. Eliminating team synergies doesnt do anyone favors, and were fighting against that.

Thanks for taking jabs though. If youd like to try to take out my templar with any class build feel free to let me know - I will show you how little you can do to me on any class setups.. CP or nonCP - while still providing full coverage of healing to an entire group. Its OK to be a full blown tank, but not if youre also providing an extremely high coverage of healing to your group with no downtime.

Let me clarify, you are on the opposite side of the extreme spectrum of tankiness vs damage. Alot of people would say your build is broken, especially in Azura. You can do close to 20K damage under one second because of the sets you wear, and healers can tank it because of the sets they wear. To put it simple, your build is maximal damage output and tank healers are built to be able to outlive max damage builds like yours.

And honestly... You aren't taking jabs at every templar when you say we all want easymode gameplay, but I am taking jabs at you for calling you out on your hypocritical bs? Reality check, you aren't a lord and people will hold you accountable by what you say, especially if it's stupid. Spamming reverb and puncture til viper and tremor procs on Azura would be considered easymode, sorry to burst your bubble.

Proc sets do have built in damage, the actual game play of skill rotations I do is actually no different from when I used s+b before proc sets were a thing. The damage is dealt in a different way, and in noncp, it's higher than if I used a weapon damage setup on that build. That's the reality of it. I still use the same skills and same survival techniques I would use otherwise whether I'm in cp, noncp, proc or no proc.

Do you think I'm happier proc sets are in the game? No, but they are a reality... like poisons or any other mechanic that's been introduced and not addressed. At the end of the day, you're a healing templar angry I've taken the lead on reducing overly simplistic healing of templars. Yes, Zos heard it and they listened. I am a better and more well rounded player than you for sure. But you'd have to get out from behind a zerg to ever see how good you'll be. There is a reason zos listened to me over you. You don't know any better.

Let me know if you want to do a 1v1 or 4v4 or something Emma. I will demonstrate what ez mode looks like.

emma666

FENGRUSH wrote: »

emma666 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

All the Templar ladies hitting on Fengrush...and not in a good way.

@FENGRUSH - I understand the points you are trying to make, but you come in here and talk like that, while we try to either come to terms with the changes, provide (as unbiased as possible) feedback, work things out with what we have available and maybe cringe at incrementals - uncool.

Honestly, the only change I am upset about is gutting Repentance (and I am very upset about it). *For me* - everything else is fine, even a buff. But does that mean that other people should not get to share their frustration at what is basically a very drastic change?
Whether you, or me or Billy believe that it's warranted or not - it doesn't matter - a change like this, that basically takes away some of the class uniqueness, is going to create a lot of distress.
Especially since we're talking about a game here - you know - those things that are supposed to be fun?

I wasnt really poking at the templar population in a serious fashion - I dont even know if a post that argues against the changes for the sake of playing the game while eating a burrito should be taken that serious. Im sorry that offended people on a serious level. Ive been arguing against changes that you seem to agree with and will continue to do so in the ways I can. I also am trying to stop the doom + gloom PoVs that state the templar is officially a worthless class on all fronts from people that dont have the ability to back that claim.

emma666 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Jemcrystal wrote: »

I just want a healer that is easy. As in the one class you can eat a burrito, watch youtube, and run a dungeon all at the same time. There is no easy dungeon running class in this game with this balance obsession. It's to much like Square Enix's Final Fantasy XI. All of a sudden you have to work at being a healer. Research, builds, best armor. I miss the days (in general mmo gaming) when healer was harder to take down than a tank even if they showed up in the nude and could "/follow" the group and just had to hit a button if the screen started showing red. I don't want to work at a game. I want to play at a game. I miss the easy life. It made queue up on dungeon finders quicker - you only had to hunt high and low for a tank.

Every templars feels right now

You're playing a stamsorc on Azuras Star wearing tumorscale and viper... And you're saying templars want easy mode, often ranting about how broken some builds (that you can't kill under 3 seconds) are.

I do argue against broken builds. Ive been talking about tremor for awhile - they finally adjusted the snare time this PTS patch. They should still make the actual proc time of it longer than 4 though. It snares on cooldown and does decent damage - its a strong set.

If you think Im running an *honorable build only stream* - I am not. If you go out to Cyrodiil and put yourself in situations where youre outnumbered constantly and cut out concepts 'that are broken'... youre not going to get very far. Proc sets are strong, but having put a minimal amount of time on my templar Ive made a templar build that would be completely unharmed by my stam sorc as well in group play. It would not only keep itself alive, but any others around taking a substantial amount of pressure. Add 2 more of these templars and suddenly you have a fortress that takes an unbelievable amount of pressure to take down. Healing is good, teamplay should be encouraged, but broken design should be addressed. The reality is, any stam build could use the setup I have on my stam sorc, and do very well with it. This is something Ive talked about plenty.

Its fine to complain about what Im doing on my stam sorc, if you take it to CP campaign it becomes even less effective. CP environment lags and is overall much less enjoyable gameplay from that perspective from me. But make no mistake, it is not as bad as templar healing in group play to the overall health of Cyrodiil on current live build. So yes - if you are a templar that is arguing against knocking down their healing in any way, call it 'wanting easy mode', call it whatever you want. I say its bad for the game. The fact that they recognize this and are trying to take action is a good thing. It must be kept in balance - and from templars Ive talked to on PTS they are able to adapt thus far. Eliminating team synergies doesnt do anyone favors, and were fighting against that.

Thanks for taking jabs though. If youd like to try to take out my templar with any class build feel free to let me know - I will show you how little you can do to me on any class setups.. CP or nonCP - while still providing full coverage of healing to an entire group. Its OK to be a full blown tank, but not if youre also providing an extremely high coverage of healing to your group with no downtime.

Let me clarify, you are on the opposite side of the extreme spectrum of tankiness vs damage. Alot of people would say your build is broken, especially in Azura. You can do close to 20K damage under one second because of the sets you wear, and healers can tank it because of the sets they wear. To put it simple, your build is maximal damage output and tank healers are built to be able to outlive max damage builds like yours.

And honestly... You aren't taking jabs at every templar when you say we all want easymode gameplay, but I am taking jabs at you for calling you out on your hypocritical bs? Reality check, you aren't a lord and people will hold you accountable by what you say, especially if it's stupid. Spamming reverb and puncture til viper and tremor procs on Azura would be considered easymode, sorry to burst your bubble.

Proc sets do have built in damage, the actual game play of skill rotations I do is actually no different from when I used s+b before proc sets were a thing. The damage is dealt in a different way, and in noncp, it's higher than if I used a weapon damage setup on that build. That's the reality of it. I still use the same skills and same survival techniques I would use otherwise whether I'm in cp, noncp, proc or no proc.

Do you think I'm happier proc sets are in the game? No, but they are a reality... like poisons or any other mechanic that's been introduced and not addressed. At the end of the day, you're a healing templar angry I've taken the lead on reducing overly simplistic healing of templars. Yes, Zos heard it and they listened. I am a better and more well rounded player than you for sure. But you'd have to get out from behind a zerg to ever see how good you'll be. There is a reason zos listened to me over you. You don't know any better.

Let me know if you want to do a 1v1 or 4v4 or something Emma. I will demonstrate what ez mode looks like.

Did I hurt your feelings Fengrush? If ZoS did listen to you regarding the patch notes then you don't have much to be proud over, it only demonstrates how out of touch they are with this game in many aspects, which they've been forever. Sorc not touched at all, my favourite classes templar and DK nerfed. And really, you'd use tauntx10 without proc sets? Interesting, never heard of that build before.

Not even going to deeply adress the other stuff you wrote, since you sound like Dubzug having a hissyfit to be honest. I'll say this though, it's a running joke that you call other people zergers but cling to zergs, just like you rage that people zerg you down when you can be found surfing one and Xv1ing people, including me multiple times. Mojican put it nicely to you in a thread some time ago.

Again, hypocrisy. You aren't untouchable, and all I really did was say the exact same thing you told ''all templars'', you play a ezmode build, a build whos damage is carried by sets that are OP on Azuras Star, just like how tanky healers rely on OP sets to stay alive.

Accept or deny it, that's how people see it. You aren't capable of taking the same criticism you dish out without insulting me. You're not a lord, no, but your character remind me of someone else.





I'm out.

hmsdragonfly

emma666 wrote: »

If ZoS did listen to you regarding the patch notes then you don't have much to be proud over, it only demonstrates how out of touch they are with this game in many aspects, which they've been forever. Sorc not touched at all, my favourite classes templar and DK nerfed.

So, ummm, the root of the problem is that they nerf your favourite classes?

Illurian

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I am a better and more well rounded player than you for sure. But you'd have to get out from behind a zerg to ever see how good you'll be. There is a reason zos listened to me over you. You don't know any better.

Let me know if you want to do a 1v1 or 4v4 or something Emma. I will demonstrate what ez mode looks like.

I laughed. Hard.

This is why you will never be as popular as Deltia or as respected as Alcast.

You sound like one of those League of Legends keyboard warriors "1V1 ME AT BARON BRUH"! And it's really quite amusing.

visionality

I'm playing a templar healer myself, but I cant help thinking these changes are for the better. Templars are indeed outperforming, and I highly doubt that Warden will be the "new best templar because the old one got nerfed".

Zenimax obviously wants players to go for higher self-sustain. The nerf to passive sustains (cps etc) is a clear indication of that, the nerf or removal of templar ressource support another one.

Templars are atm the best healer class not because they heal so much better than anybody else (although I think they do that, too) - they are the best support class. No other class can generate so much sustain for their group, especially when it comes to stamina. The result: "lf1m templar healer" when people form groups for difficult dungeons and a very clear rule that you have to play a templar healer if you want to heal in a vet trial.

In cp-PVP, current templar healbuilds are cancerous. Major mending makes their heals way too strong, continuous repentence while battling zergs keeps their whole group alive and with full stamina to rolldodge and break free. In solo-mode, a well-built templar is beyond toxic, unkillable by even 10 experienced DDs if he's playing clever and using the environment. Combine mistform, ritual and BOL and as long as he has a rock (preferrably two with a passable gap) to run around, he simply cant be brought down.

LilySix

PVe healer are not that nerfed.

We heal too much, we will heal as just as needed, it's not our job to cast the spears (= so where's the problem ?), orbs don't give us magicka ATM....

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

Sorry, but it's our job to give shards and if close enough we had magicka back from orbs.

Lieblingsjunge

Oh for god's sake, stop with the "I'm leaving the game if this goes live ))))) QQQQQ"-posts. These empty threats doesn't work, m'kay? 'Cus we've seen it before that people threaten to leave the game, yet they keep playing.

For templars; I love the changes, mostly. It was far too easy to play a healer, both in PvE & PvP. "Oh, I'm just gonna turn my back on you and spam BoL, because I can he-heeeeeee". And selective healing is good - I can now *not* heal people in my group that trashtalks or otherwise bullies me. #PowerToTheHealers!!! #HealersUnite.

I understand Templars that QQs. It won't be as easy to heal next patch. But I like it. Now templars actually require some sort of brains and not "HEHE LOOK AT ME! I'm standing here spamming one button while holding right-click. I'm so guuuuuuud at this game".


The only thing I want back is Remembrance. At least make it into Major protection so it won't stack with Pirate Skeleton/WArden if that's the issue.

LilySix

jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry, but it's our job to give shards and if close enough we had magicka back from orbs.

No. If you have a really good well construct and synergistic group, templars DD give the shards. And as HM healer you don't use the one that gives back magicka, but the others. Useless to have 4 toons that can give them.... You have better skills to cast as a healer.

Orbs give you back magicka only if (if they're blue) they touch an annemy (from whom you are far away "normally") and (if they're white) if they heal a friend (and you're not that close to them).

DarkAedin

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Oh for god's sake, stop with the "I'm leaving the game if this goes live ))))) QQQQQ"-posts. These empty threats doesn't work, m'kay? 'Cus we've seen it before that people threaten to leave the game, yet they keep playing.

For templars; I love the changes, mostly. It was far too easy to play a healer, both in PvE & PvP. "Oh, I'm just gonna turn my back on you and spam BoL, because I can he-heeeeeee". And selective healing is good - I can now *not* heal people in my group that trashtalks or otherwise bullies me. #PowerToTheHealers!!! #HealersUnite.

I understand Templars that QQs. It won't be as easy to heal next patch. But I like it. Now templars actually require some sort of brains and not "HEHE LOOK AT ME! I'm standing here spamming one button while holding right-click. I'm so guuuuuuud at this game".


The only thing I want back is Remembrance. At least make it into Major protection so it won't stack with Pirate Skeleton/WArden if that's the issue.

Its not the healing that bothers most of us templars. Tanks and stamplars were hit much harder then healplars.

4 man dungeon healing templars are king atm bc they have a second hot, not to mention the support. This means that between rapid regen and and ritual all i have to do is keep combat prayer at 100% uptime and ill never ever ever use bol.

My stamplar however...got his entire group support skillset removed. And since stamlar dps has been bottom of the barrel since release, this further puts nails in the coffin to be able to be competative in end game pve. Before at least, i couod allow non templar healers in group b/c i am able to do the support. This is now gutted and my dps is lower then enough of the other classes that im not going to be able to bring him to competative raids

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

LilySix wrote: »

jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry, but it's our job to give shards and if close enough we had magicka back from orbs.

No. If you have a really good well construct and synergistic group, templars DD give the shards. And as HM healer you don't use the one that gives back magicka, but the others. Useless to have 4 toons that can give them.... You have better skills to cast as a healer.

Orbs give you back magicka only if (if they're blue) they touch an annemy (from whom you are far away "normally") and (if they're white) if they heal a friend (and you're not that close to them).

Have you read the patch notes? They are changing a lot of what you just described.

What is better a skill then shards?


Also YOU might not like tossing shards for your team but *I* like to be relied on like that, I like being the reason that my team can pull everything into dps and not worry about regen.

You seem really selfish to me.

Fuxo

This is getting ridiculous. The real problem in PvP is not just major mending and infinite sustain. The real problem is major mending combined with healing received bonus from HA, sustain granted in HA, damage mitigation of reactive set, etc. Any class spamming Healing Springs would probably have a similar survivability even without major mending. And this survivability is a problem only because it is supported by the design of HA and sustain in PvP. This is addressed in the PTS with changes to sustain and a heavy buff to Befoul. A change to reactive set is also due.

LilySix

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LilySix wrote: »

jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry, but it's our job to give shards and if close enough we had magicka back from orbs.

No. If you have a really good well construct and synergistic group, templars DD give the shards. And as HM healer you don't use the one that gives back magicka, but the others. Useless to have 4 toons that can give them.... You have better skills to cast as a healer.

Orbs give you back magicka only if (if they're blue) they touch an annemy (from whom you are far away "normally") and (if they're white) if they heal a friend (and you're not that close to them).

Have you read the patch notes? They are changing a lot of what you just described.

What is better a skill then shards?

I can't read ... Of course i've read it ! And :

shards => IDC as when i play it I play the one that gives back stamina and not magicka.
orbs => people think blues orbs are better => that's wrong. Just choose the good ones. In Sanctum white orbs are a master piece.... They heal and gives back so much magicka... That sometimes is not needed.

They've change how the whole thing works. Now it gives you back the mana you have most (obviously if you're a magdk => magicka, if you're a stamdk => stam).

Sustain management will be hard for tanks and DDs but not for healers.

I run all the HM with my team (except Lorkhaj let's be fair), I'm never under half of my magicka basis. I only have 2 rings that give me regene, I play magicka mundus.

Healplars already heal too much. I just want to wait and see if the changes make it very bad or if it will be still ok. ATM you don't need to over heal and it is what we do... Useless...

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

LilySix wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LilySix wrote: »

jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry, but it's our job to give shards and if close enough we had magicka back from orbs.

No. If you have a really good well construct and synergistic group, templars DD give the shards. And as HM healer you don't use the one that gives back magicka, but the others. Useless to have 4 toons that can give them.... You have better skills to cast as a healer.

Orbs give you back magicka only if (if they're blue) they touch an annemy (from whom you are far away "normally") and (if they're white) if they heal a friend (and you're not that close to them).

Have you read the patch notes? They are changing a lot of what you just described.

What is better a skill then shards?

I can't read ... Of course i've read it ! And :

shards => IDC as when i play it I play the one that gives back stamina and not magicka.
orbs => people think blues orbs are better => that's wrong. Just choose the good ones. In Sanctum white orbs are a master piece.... They heal and gives back so much magicka... That sometimes is not needed.


They've change how the whole thing works. Now it gives you back the mana you have most (obviously if you're a magdk => magicka, if you're a stamdk => stam).

Sustain management will be hard for tanks and DDs but not for healers.

I run all the HM with my team (except Lorkhaj let's be fair), I'm never under half of my magicka basis. I only have 2 rings that give me regene, I play magicka mundus.

Healplars already heal too much. I just want to wait and see if the changes make it very bad or if it will be still ok. ATM you don't need to over heal and it is what we do... Useless...

Okay so you have read the patch note but are still bringing the way they used to act up for some reason. Please clarify what you intend to convey by this.

Of course healers are the least impacted, we can get away with much more regen and no one cares.

Your set up is completely different then the one I use, I healing with on around 1k regen, with worm/SPC/master staff I have 2.5k spell damage and 40k magic, I run the ritual mundus, 15% more heals is too good to pass up, that mundas is the best for healers, my breath of Life on live costs 2.7k, my springs cost 1.7k, on the pts my regen went down further and my breath costs 3.5, my springs is 2.3k. this is an incredible increase of around 23%, that is way too much.


I really don't want to stack regen and literally only heal. I like being able to sustain the group and I like that my shards do 10k per, the way you play sounds really boring to me.

Jemcrystal

This game has the second worse healer class of any fantasy mmo I have ever played (RIFT has the worst). At least for the practical purpose of healing in dungeons. I am not saying I don't like TESO. This is the best mmorpg I have ever played. And the best looking mmorpg up and running. Beats all Final Fantasy's and Black Desert Online hands down no competition in appearance. But if anyone asks me if they should join TESO as a healer I will have to say, "Noooooooooooooooooooooo. Run away!" Final Fantasy 11 (not 14) and WoW probably have the best dungeon healer class.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Jemcrystal wrote: »

This game has the second worse healer class of any fantasy mmo I have ever played (RIFT has the worst). At least for the practical purpose of healing in dungeons. I am not saying I don't like TESO. This is the best mmorpg I have ever played. And the best looking mmorpg up and running. Beats all Final Fantasy's and Black Desert Online hands down no competition in appearance. But if anyone asks me if they should join TESO as a healer I will have to say, "Noooooooooooooooooooooo. Run away!" Final Fantasy 11 (not 14) and WoW probably have the best dungeon healer class.

All those words and you don't explain What about healing in ESO do you have a problem with?

ashenb14_ESO

Fuxo wrote: »

This is getting ridiculous. The real problem in PvP is..

they fact they insist on balancing pvp and pve at the same time with the same "tweaks" despite the fact a huge % of the pve players have less then zero interest in pvp.... and alot of pvp players arent really into pve unless its in a world pvp setting....

you really cant blanace them and keep them connected you endup screwing over PvE players because PvP is unbalanced over and over...and over and over...

perhaps its time to have 2 live servers, one with full world pvp and factions re-enabled, and one without pvp... could change cyrodil into a pve swarm defense against AI attackers setup (something we talked about from the start...that i still thinks a great idea....as it would allow them to use the same content just with tweaks to skills/sets/cp/etc targeted at the content the player base is actually playing...

i still say, gw2's spvp is far supperior to how eso handles pvp... spvp everybody has the same gear/skill sets/options it all comes down to how well you play, your skill, not what gear somebody has or how many cp they have, or any of that crap...

it was one of the few times i enjoied pvp from time to time...because unlike games such as neverwinter and eso...nobody had gear or skills that anybody else couldnt access.... it really does come down to skill.... and...im not that skilled 1v1 but, im evil as support ranged dps ...or was LOL (really only tried it because a friend begged me to take the last spot so they had a full team and he knew i could learn quickly to hold my own/get away...LOL)

if this patch goes live i think gw2 is getting dusted off till they get some sort of pve balance back...and my sub will be going bye bye...

Feanor

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Oh for god's sake, stop with the "I'm leaving the game if this goes live ))))) QQQQQ"-posts. These empty threats doesn't work, m'kay? 'Cus we've seen it before that people threaten to leave the game, yet they keep playing.

For templars; I love the changes, mostly. It was far too easy to play a healer, both in PvE & PvP. "Oh, I'm just gonna turn my back on you and spam BoL, because I can he-heeeeeee". And selective healing is good - I can now *not* heal people in my group that trashtalks or otherwise bullies me. #PowerToTheHealers!!! #HealersUnite.

I understand Templars that QQs. It won't be as easy to heal next patch. But I like it. Now templars actually require some sort of brains and not "HEHE LOOK AT ME! I'm standing here spamming one button while holding right-click. I'm so guuuuuuud at this game".


The only thing I want back is Remembrance. At least make it into Major protection so it won't stack with Pirate Skeleton/WArden if that's the issue.

If that's true I'm going to call you out whenever I see you on another non Templar char in Azura. And I'll talk to Nylá - no more non Templar trial runs for you. No ez mode, right?

LilySix

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Okay so you have read the patch note but are still bringing the way they used to act up for some reason. Please clarify what you intend to convey by this.

Of course healers are the least impacted, we can get away with much more regen and no one cares.

Your set up is completely different then the one I use, I healing with on around 1k regen, with worm/SPC/master staff I have 2.5k spell damage and 40k magic, I run the ritual mundus, 15% more heals is too good to pass up, that mundas is the best for healers, my breath of Life on live costs 2.7k, my springs cost 1.7k, on the pts my regen went down further and my breath costs 3.5, my springs is 2.3k. this is an incredible increase of around 23%, that is way too much.


I really don't want to stack regen and literally only heal. I like being able to sustain the group and I like that my shards do 10k per, the way you play sounds really boring to me.

You are over healing... that is useless...Again. Try to convince yourself that both your ritual stone and spell damages help you to have enough healing, this is wrong. I got 45k magicka on my main bar and 42k (43 , depends) on my second. Without master staff cause it's pimp to get 1k magika more for me...

One of my BoL full heal a tank.... Where is the point to have ritual + spell damages ? Why would i want more heal as i'm already healing full life all of my friends ? I never run out of mana, and if I switch my mundus to regene, it will not changes a lot my gameplay...

DisgracefulMind

visionality wrote: »

I'm playing a templar healer myself, but I cant help thinking these changes are for the better. Templars are indeed outperforming, and I highly doubt that Warden will be the "new best templar because the old one got nerfed".

Zenimax obviously wants players to go for higher self-sustain. The nerf to passive sustains (cps etc) is a clear indication of that, the nerf or removal of templar ressource support another one.

Templars are atm the best healer class not because they heal so much better than anybody else (although I think they do that, too) - they are the best support class. No other class can generate so much sustain for their group, especially when it comes to stamina. The result: "lf1m templar healer" when people form groups for difficult dungeons and a very clear rule that you have to play a templar healer if you want to heal in a vet trial.

In cp-PVP, current templar healbuilds are cancerous. Major mending makes their heals way too strong, continuous repentence while battling zergs keeps their whole group alive and with full stamina to rolldodge and break free. In solo-mode, a well-built templar is beyond toxic, unkillable by even 10 experienced DDs if he's playing clever and using the environment. Combine mistform, ritual and BOL and as long as he has a rock (preferrably two with a passable gap) to run around, he simply cant be brought down.

1. You do realize that Templar has an entire dedicated tree to healing, unlike the other classes (Warden is the new exception), right? So of course Templar is the go to Support class, it's literally made for that.

2. This is any class, actually. As long as you have good LoS and potatoes chase you without using their brain, you can kite literally forever on any class. The only difference is that a magicka Templar or a magicka DK will eventually die because we don't, in fact, have endless resources when we're getting zerged down. Don't get me started on how much a stamina build (even stamplar) can roll around a rock with evasion and troll king up and not die easily.

Nifty2g

Anyone ever stop to think that maybe just maybe it's gear that is causing problems?

DisgracefulMind

Nifty2g wrote: »

Anyone ever stop to think that maybe just maybe it's gear that is causing problems?

YAS PLEASE REPEAT THIS PLEEEEEASE.

Been saying this FOREVER. It's GEAR. GEAR IS AN ISSUE. Take out these stupid sets like reactive, malubeth, tremorscale, viper, selene's, troll king, etc. and you will see that literally gear is the biggest issue out of all the other "issues". You can't kill a Templar in Reactive/Black-Rose/Malubeth? LOOK at what they're running. Of course they're hard to kill, the game is literally playing itself for these players.

NobleNerd

I have to say after reading the patch notes and watching some videos and listening to a few podcasts on the subject I am a bit concerned with these massive changes right before an expansion/new class release!

I just came back to the game recently to see if the performance and other issues had been addressed so I could decide on purchasing Morrowind. I was very pleased and even rebuilt the guild, but NOW..... now I am rethinking whether I want to purchase Morrowind and continue.

The changes specifically to Templars is just unnecessary. Addressing with a bandaid an open wound is kind of silly. A lot of the issues came into the game when we transitioned from Vet to CP. CP should have never been a way to empower your character's overall damage, but more to enhance game play and play style. Furthermore using resource as the power modifier for healing/damage was not the best choice and then with One Tamriel and Battle Leveling everyone to max stat levels just further convoluted the design.