Magicka Sorcerors OP !!??? Should the class be reworked? Will streak ever get buffed?

Subversus

@Hexys do you still get transformed into an ugly ass skeleton if you use a disguise?

Izaki

TLDR PLZ

Good post btw.

Joy_Division

I actually read your thread.

Mines: They are not OP, they are a L2P issue. I don't know why players who refuse to bar a ranged weapon feel the game should 100% accommodate their one-trick ponies builds, but I've seen experienced players willingly explode 2 or 3 mines and engage the sorc without issue. Alternatively, be a vampire and remove all 5 without scratching your health bar. Alternatively, ignore the sorcerer.

Shields: Don't need to be turned into health (what you want to do), it's boring and non-distinctive. The issue is and has always been their ability to stack.

Surge criting: OK, now you just made stam sorcs pretty much invincible.

No cost-increase Streak: I play a sorcerer. I do not agree with your statement that streak should be such that it always enables a sorcerer to simply reset a fight whenever they wanted to. Such an ability to do so is way too strong, especially for a class that is already powerful to begin with.

I do think that if streak damages an opponent, then there should be no cost increase penalty. That way streak can still be used tactically without it turning into a cry home to mommy ability whenever a sorc is losing a fight or is in trouble.

As far as sorcerers being OP, even though crushing shock is not refelctable, a reflect ability still screws over this class because every sorc relies on frags for their burst. Problem is 90% of the people in Cyrodiil are only concerned with moar damage and instead of doing something apparently unthinkable like use sword and board instead of duel wield, they will come onto these boards and whine when they get killed.

Even as a magicka build, I can slot defensive posture and when I do, sorcerers can't kill me unless it's Xv1. This class is easy to neutralize by intelligent play and versatile builds, so I don't buy the argument they are OP. They are indeed very strong against pure DPS players, but that's a L2P issue.

Although I would agree Negate is stupid strong when compared to other 200 cost ultimates. But that is a different dusciussion.

thankyourat

Sorc is fine what needs to change with the class is all these op sets that allow sorcs to keep up shields 100% of the time. Lol people downplay there strength of mines they are crazy strong. I won't even fight a sorc in mines if I'm wearing light armor I'll just cloak away because I can't cc them while they are in the mines or use any of my ultimates. it's a pointless never ending fight that will result in me getting zerged down

thankyourat

And nerf the resource gain of harness magicka it's op

Biro123

Shields as they are, are an integral part of defence in this game - and therefore impacts offensive setups too.

I like that currently when building for offence, I have to decide between more pen to target heavy armour users - or simply more damage to better break down shields... More crit to burst ppl more - or simply more dmg to get those shields down... If we made shields crittable and use armour resistances... then everyone would run high-pen/high crit builds as they would affect every target. We would lose offensive build diversity

The other problem is that it would make them work in pretty much the same way as heals... ie the strength of the shield/heal only needs to make up for the amount of mitigated damge that gets through. Currently they are different - which is a good mechanic.

And lastly, I think you would see a new meta of heavy-armour wearing sorcs - wearing blackrose and sustaining with dark exchange... If their impen/resist makes the shields last longer... Hell - it would make them stronger in xv1 too.

I think my main issue is that there is no alternative to shields for a magsorc.. I mean you could try heavy armour/mitigation+heals - twilight matriarch can pump out some pretty decent heals - but how do you keep the pet alive? Fekkin Shields!!!

Minalan

Hexys wrote: »

The only changes sorcerer need is making curse not stack on an enemy. Another change is to a set that makes sorcerer just to strong which is pirate skeleton.

So one sorc can't curse someone else already cursed? Yeah not going to happen. Not to mention that would wreck PVE.

I can't agree more on the pirate skeleton, it's just too good on Sorcs and Templars right now.

I'd also be alright if they nixed harness and hardened ward stacking and buffed hardened ward to compensate for it. But not until they do something about heavy armor, blocking, and infinite sustain as well.

The_Saint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm9AHWRbUH0

76k (12k from pet) with 51k single target is not op ... no no

the other classes just cant play... everything balanced here

Lord_Invel

@HoloYoitsu @mafli1 @Hexys thanks for ur comments and taking time to read the post. So in ur opinions it seems that u would all agree that sorc isn't overpowered from ur standpoint only certain game mechanincs have made sorc a bit stronger than before .... that being said would u still like to see streak be buffed because that is one of the main reasons I posted this argument. If streak were to be buffed to reduce the cost increase penalty and increase the distance one can travel with streak I would say that sorc would have to trade off something for this to happen ... would u like to see that happen?

Minalan

The_Saint wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm9AHWRbUH0

76k (12k from pet) with 51k single target is not op ... no no

the other classes just cant play... everything balanced here

THIS. IS. A. PVP. FORUM!



Take your parses and stationary DOT damage field crap somewhere else.

Lord_Invel

@Joy_Division thanks for reading my thread! I would like to ask u what ur opinion on streak is right now. Because as it is right now I can kite really well to say in the least. However when I run into a competent player that has speed pots or bow passive up and runs like a maniac and gap closes me I cant get away from that opponenet that gap close spams me and snares me to oblivion.... nor can I chase them down with streak as well because I would run out of magicka completely when and if I would ever arrive to catch them. Is this fair ? Because knowing that this happens honestly makes me think that streak is pretty useless right now. In my mind who cares if a sorc streaks away from a 1v1 if he runs away completely that means YOU WON THE FIGHT. If I a sorc completely runs from a fight would u like to see the person that stayed in the fight receive AP for the fight ?

NightbladeMechanics

@HoloYoitsu @Publius_Scipio magicka sorc dumps on stamblade and melee mageblade in duels, and ranged destro mageblade dumps on magicka sorc. They're very polarized matchups because of how the class mechanics interact. Mercy on the stamblade if he's in medium.. I can elaborate if you'd like.

To the rest of the conversation...the only, I repeat only thing related to sorc requiring a nerf at the moment is Pirate Skeleton, which distorts all class and armor weight balance efforts at the moment. Any direct nerfs to sorc would need to be evaluated following a Pirate nerf, otherwise they'll just be bandaid fixes further pigeonholing sorc into wearing and relying on a blatantly overpowered 2pc.

Lord_Invel

@IzakiBrotherSs haha sorry I like writing a lot lol. Anyway the summary of my post is basically that I would like to see streak buffed because that would make sorc function in cyrodiil very differently and in a fun way I believe. Its not op if a sorc runs away from a zerg that was chasing him or her down how is running away from a zerg going to kill them lol. And if a zerg is really annoyed by the sorc harassing them then they should send their own sorcs to chase the sorc down that way it becomes an entirely unique battle of its own in cyrodiil.

NBrookus

When you see tons of new sorcs in Cyro (the re-roll mDKs having already given up), you know there's an issue. Zergs don't need anything but templars and sorcs now, and maybe a debuff tank.

The reality is that mag sorcs got a damage buff when they didn't need one. Sorcs could already pump out tons of burst damage and now they have both burst and sustained, unreflectable pressure if they use destro. What they needed were QoL improvements with pets and toggles. And I'd agree with removing the scaling cost of streak if it does damage. (And get rid of the %$*&^! gap closer snare.)

Personally, I have no issues with mines and don't think they are OP at all. A little OP in no-CP, but manageable. Any less damage and they'd be useless, especially given the cost.

Lord_Invel

@NBrookus Hey long time no see ! I'm glad u posted on my thread haha to see where u stand on the sorc issue. I would agree that in some respects sorc is really strong in burst and that it was an unnecessary buff in that manner to buff destro staff passives. However I would really like to see zos buff streak because as it is right now it is pretty useless if I am gap close spammed or snared to oblivion. Zos needs to address these issues especially snares because SNARES are the one mechanic in this game that stops everyone from being successful in 1vx no matter what.... and poisons (cough).

NightbladeMechanics

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@IzakiBrotherSs haha sorry I like writing a lot lol. Anyway the summary of my post is basically that I would like to see streak buffed because that would make sorc function in cyrodiil very differently and in a fun way I believe. Its not op if a sorc runs away from a zerg that was chasing him or her down how is running away from a zerg going to kill them lol. And if a zerg is really annoyed by the sorc harassing them then they should send their own sorcs to chase the sorc down that way it becomes an entirely unique battle of its own in cyrodiil.

So builds that don't kill things aren't capable of being op, and non-sorcs should have zero counterplay against sorcs' escape? Hmmm.

I would support removing streak's stacking cost penalty if ZOS severely cut sustain in the game so that normal streaks actually pressured your magicka.

But even in the current state of the game, I don't know why you think streak needs a buff... Even in Azura's, I can streak around all I want and kite zergs for days. Are you using Dark Conversion, or waiting for your cost increase to wear off every 2-3 streaks, or slotting rapids on your Overload bar for extra speed and snare immunity? There are lots of ways to play around the cost increase.

NightbladeMechanics

The number of times I have to stop my autocorrect from changing streak back into steak... lmao

Lord_Invel

@NightbladeMechanics oh no don't get me wrong I slot multiple things in order for me to kite successfully and to escape from zergs I'm well known for evading zergs XD. However what I am saying is that it is such a pain for a mag sorc to kite successfully. One has to slot a varietly amount of skills and combos to evade a zerg successfully, especially when there are gap close spamming fiords stam sorc orcs , mag dks spamming chains, and other sorcs just snareing u to death lol. What I am saying is that sorcs should get streak buffed in exchange for some of the other aspects that make them super strong like mine camping and shield stacking.... if u have any other ideas please throw them out there. But I functionally want sorc to be about pure kiting and not spamming shields and being stationary with mines.

Joy_Division

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Joy_Division thanks for reading my thread! I would like to ask u what ur opinion on streak is right now. Because as it is right now I can kite really well to say in the least. However when I run into a competent player that has speed pots or bow passive up and runs like a maniac and gap closes me I cant get away from that opponenet that gap close spams me and snares me to oblivion.... nor can I chase them down with streak as well because I would run out of magicka completely when and if I would ever arrive to catch them. Is this fair ? Because knowing that this happens honestly makes me think that streak is pretty useless right now. In my mind who cares if a sorc streaks away from a 1v1 if he runs away completely that means YOU WON THE FIGHT. If I a sorc completely runs from a fight would u like to see the person that stayed in the fight receive AP for the fight ?

@Lord_Invel

My opinion is that what you are describing is working as it should. It sounds like you typically can kite except when you run into a skilled opponent who has actually invest resources into speed and mobility. If we want a game where skill and counterplay mean something, then pressing the streak button should not equate into an automatic getaway or automatically means to pursue a fleeing opponent. That's absolutely fair. My experience is similar to yours and it's something I can accept, because there is the option to stop streaking and killed an unsuspecting pursuer with a high burst (you did proc frags while streaking, right?)

I would say the gap-closer auto snare is an abomination that needs to be immediately purged and forever removed from ESO and all MMOs that come out in the future.

I do not agree that if a magicka sorc streaks away from me in a 1v1, then I won the fight. Because that same magicka sorc will come back in 7 or 8 seconds ago with a full health bar, fully buffed, and shielded up.

NBrookus

Compared to every other class in the game, sorcs still have insane mobility. (Stam sorcs especially.) Roll a magDK and deal with all those snares, roots, gap closers and chains and THEN complain about mobility on a sorc.

I don't even try to go after a sorc. But chances are he's going to buff up, heal up and come back.

@Lord_Invel I'm mostly on EP lately. Holler any time you want to putter around on AD tho.

Lord_Invel

@Joy_Division I appreciate ur reply... that is why I am saying if sorcs are buffed with streak in that they can successfully use it to make distance turn around and burst and rinse and repeat then mag sorcs should give up some survivability because shield stacking has been complained about forever now. So my proposition is that zos should get rid of being able to stack multiple shields at once namely harness and hardened together because that poses a serious problem. And by doing so removing the ability to spam stack shields zos should buff the crap out of streak because that way sorcs will rely on mobility for defense and really be close to their original design of the game. ( A glass canon kiting class)

Alpheu5

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

The number of times I have to stop my autocorrect from changing streak back into steak... lmao

The stacking cost of steak is really hurting my wallet.

NightbladeMechanics

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics oh no don't get me wrong I slot multiple things in order for me to kite successfully and to escape from zergs I'm well known for evading zergs XD. However what I am saying is that it is such a pain for a mag sorc to kite successfully. One has to slot a varietly amount of skills and combos to evade a zerg successfully, especially when there are gap close spamming fiords stam sorc orcs , mag dks spamming chains, and other sorcs just snareing u to death lol. What I am saying is that sorcs should get streak buffed in exchange for some of the other aspects that make them super strong like mine camping and shield stacking.... if u have any other ideas please throw them out there. But I functionally want sorc to be about pure kiting and not spamming shields and being stationary with mines.

I think needing to use multiple tools in a synergistic manner instead of spamming one button in order to escape from a whole zerg is working fine.

Alpheu5 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

The number of times I have to stop my autocorrect from changing streak back into steak... lmao

The stacking cost of steak is really hurting my wallet.

This is now a nerf steak thread. ^_^

Irylia

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Publius_Scipio honestly ur comments just seem to be an advertisement of one player vs other, and has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I personally don't care if u have a shrine of iralia in ur closet. But I can tell u this that iralia has been beaten by xevenex and has never beaten him when he still played. Iralia has lost to german on his sorc, he has lost to kena on his sorc, he has lost to a variety of other players as well. Duels don't matter to me man. Iralia is a great top tier player but .... I don't care cause right now the discussion is about magicka sorc being reworked not ur fixation on iralia thanks.

1. I've never dueled German. I have dueled his newest acc and I have all the recordings of 5+ wins.
2. I've dueled kena sorc 2 times. I won 1 (my friends were all there) and the other one was called off as kena had to go.
3. I've dueled xevenex outside of sej and we went 1/1 I never dueled him after 1 tam.

Stop spreading rumors. This is how micah bayer met his downfall.

Derra

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@zuto40 I mean I don't want mag sorc to be an ass class , what I'm saying is that in some aspects like shields and mines sorc should be nerfed and in the other aspects like streak and power surge sorc should be buffed.... sorcs should be all about kiting and mobility not camping mines and shield stacking, spamming shields.

That´s precisely the opposite of what zos thinks.

They´ve patched the class into a turrent camping mine monstrosity with stacked shields.

If i were to nerf something about sorcs i´d make either stacking harness + hardened impossible or implement a mechanic that does not allow for anyone to have a shield greater than 75% of their HP in cyro.
On top of that pirate skeleton in general needs to be toned down.

Publius_Scipio

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@HoloYoitsu @Publius_Scipio magicka sorc dumps on stamblade and melee mageblade in duels, and ranged destro mageblade dumps on magicka sorc. They're very polarized matchups because of how the class mechanics interact. Mercy on the stamblade if he's in medium.. I can elaborate if you'd like.

To the rest of the conversation...the only, I repeat only thing related to sorc requiring a nerf at the moment is Pirate Skeleton, which distorts all class and armor weight balance efforts at the moment. Any direct nerfs to sorc would need to be evaluated following a Pirate nerf, otherwise they'll just be bandaid fixes further pigeonholing sorc into wearing and relying on a blatantly overpowered 2pc.

Yup. I've only been a stam NB in ESO. I can attest to the myth that stam NB (for sure right now in current game) is some terror like most on forums make it seem. Stam NB is a terror in the hands of a highschooler video game scientist like Kodi for example who makes "meta" builds and then practices with it.

Any average to above average more casual ESO player is in a world of pain as a stam NB against magicka sorc (and for good measure against magicka DK and Templar too) in a duel. Open world PvP alleviates that of course.

Magicka sorc on a macro level stomps stam NB. If you pitted magicka sorc against a stam NB in a computer simulation, sorc would win 3 out of 5 times.

This is the Scipio truth.

Hexys

I see that sorcerers are over performing damage-wise in PvE, a nerf to curse will probably hurt this high amount of damage but makes it more equal towards other classes.
In PvP I see curse equal as purifying light/power of the light, which the target can only have one active from at the time. This is a very reasonable decision and is fair/balanced if placed in the game. I know already what you are thinking, so deadric prey will not work as the tooltip says 'your pets deal additional damage?' Yes, then change it to a debuff, when you deadric prey a target it takes increased damage from all pets.

As for streak, I think it's quite balanced, maybe reduce the 4 seconds to 2 or 3 seconds so it can't be straight spammed, but keeps your magicka sustain reasonable.

@Publius_Scipio Medium armor Stamblade open world is only hard because your damage-window is really short while an above-averaged magicka sorc/tank dk/templar can stay alive really well during this window pushing the stamblade back on defence, if you yolo and give in you gonna die.

I disagree that stamblades are getting stomped versus a magicka sorcerer, you just gotta play super defensive and dodge every single crystal fragment!

Lord_Invel

@Irylia You have never beaten xevenex I watched all three duels u and Sam were attempting to fight him and he won all three in a row in dark brother hood before u used ball of lightning and everyone was wearing the same armor set seducer and shadowdancer. I was there watching the duels with adam lol so first off don't say u beat xevenex. Second of all if u did beat all these players congratulations KOWTOW irylia ( no one gives a ****) and third of all did I mention no one cares like seriously nobody cares at all. My point was publius just seemed like he was talking more about you rather than class balance and that is not the point of my thread I don't care about one player vs another at all tbh I care about the functionality of this class being changed to be more enjoyable for everyone who plays it and faces off against it as its counterparts.

Lord_Invel

@Hexys @Derra both those ideas are great IMO because seeing how mag sorc vs mag sorc duels never end it would be a great factor to not allow harness and hardened ward to stack that would be in my opinon a more balanced approach to the class. What makes more sense having magicka sorcs kite and streak to the horizon in light armor and be squishy.... or having mag sorcs camp mines and spam shields and face tank their opponenets in light armor lol. I think the choice is clear we need mag sorcs to be more mobile and less tanky with their in game mechanics.

Derra

@Hexys haunting curse pretty much is nonexistant for pve as a sorc currently.