Magicka Sorcerors OP !!??? Should the class be reworked? Will streak ever get buffed?

Minalan

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Shhh! Most stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

You mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence.

We can't have that. Sorcs need a nerf.

As a matter of fact the Scamp Pulse definitely needs a nerf. When I see that I'm pulling 46.4k on a magicka sorc with just drain and pulling more DPS than that on any my stamina classes (peaks at 45k), there's a problem. Not even the mighty Stam DK can compete with a magicka sorcs in PvE in SINGLE TARGET DPS. And I'm not even talking about AoE where magicka sorc is by far the strongest class at the moment. So yeah, no matter what, Sorcs are OP in at least one aspect of the game this patch, and you can't deny that.

Sure, they don't need a nerf in PVP. Magicka Sorcs are in a very comfortable spot right now.

And for the love of God, stop bringing stamina builds into magicka sorc discussions, since they have literally nothing to do with the class.

Something something PVE argument something something PVP forum.

When everyone sits still in my liquid lightning plus wall of elements instead of side stepping it... come back and bring this to the table. I don't give a rats behind what a sorc can do to some stupid mob.

NightbladeMechanics

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Shhh! Most stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

You mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence.

We can't have that. Sorcs need a nerf.

As a matter of fact the Scamp Pulse definitely needs a nerf. When I see that I'm pulling 46.4k on a magicka sorc with just drain and pulling more DPS than that on any my stamina classes (peaks at 45k), there's a problem. Not even the mighty Stam DK can compete with a magicka sorcs in PvE in SINGLE TARGET DPS. And I'm not even talking about AoE where magicka sorc is by far the strongest class at the moment. So yeah, no matter what, Sorcs are OP in at least one aspect of the game this patch, and you can't deny that.

Sure, they don't need a nerf in PVP. Magicka Sorcs are in a very comfortable spot right now.

And for the love of God, stop bringing stamina builds into magicka sorc discussions, since they have literally nothing to do with the class.

Something something PVE argument something something PVP forum.

When everyone sits still in my liquid lightning plus wall of elements instead of side stepping it... come back and bring this to the table. I don't give a rats behind what a sorc can do to some stupid mob.

I'm going to go get myself 1vXed by some guy using Liquid Lightning and post it on YouTube just for you.

Alite

Sounds like we need to some dueling vids to back up the claims made here.

Also this BS about sorcs being OP needs to die, the only thing OP about sorcs is the way shields interact with pirate, and that's not a class problem it's a gear one.

manny254

Can we just actually look things that need to be adjusted.

1.% Damage reductions should not apply to shields except for CP passives. Some examples are Pirate Skeleton, Vampire undeath, and resto ult.

2. Both morphs of Dark Exchange need a complete rework or some huge nerfs. One morph allows heavy armor stam sorcs to stack all damage, and play with almost no sustain investment. The other morph allows amberplasm magicka sorcs to have infinite magicka with careful play. This skill is one of the most over performing skills in the game. I am amazed that more people do not point this out.

3.Overall the available ults need rebalancing. Negate and destro ult are super powerful, but they are so powerful that group fights can be won just by spamming them. This makes battles even more numbers reliant. If a enemy group can stack more destro ult than you have people they can just walk forward and kill you, or they can layer an area with so many negates you can not even try to form some sort of counter play. Another ult that needs rebalancing is the resto ulti. It currently does too much for it's cost. This skill essentially makes the user unkillable while giving them major force for the duration. My suggestion would be forcing the user to choose between an offensive or defensive morph.

4. Endless fury's travel time needs to be adjusted. By this I am referencing when the execute damage hits. When the skill is cast a bolt of lightning lands on the target and applys the damage that occurs outside of execute . When in execute the explosion occurs before that bolt of lightning actually hits the target. I took the time to show this by testing it on a target skeleton.





On the subject of shields. As much as I want to say things like shields and heavy armor need some flat nerfs I think it is necessary to first adjust overall damage.

Minalan

manny254 wrote: »

Can we just actually look things that need to be adjusted.

1.% Damage reductions should not apply to shields except for CP passives. Some examples are Pirate Skeleton, Vampire undeath, and resto ult.

2. Both morphs of Dark Exchange need a complete rework or some huge nerfs. One morph allows heavy armor stam sorcs to stack all damage, and play with almost no sustain investment. The other morph allows amberplasm magicka sorcs to have infinite magicka with careful play. This skill is one of the most over performing skills in the game. I am amazed that more people do not point this out.

3.Overall the available ults need rebalancing. Negate and destro ult are super powerful, but they are so powerful that group fights can be won just by spamming them. This makes battles even more numbers reliant. If a enemy group can stack more destro ult than you have people they can just walk forward and kill you, or they can layer an area with so many negates you can not even try to form some sort of counter play. Another ult that needs rebalancing is the resto ulti. It currently does too much for it's cost. This skill essentially makes the user unkillable while giving them major force for the duration. My suggestion would be forcing the user to choose between an offensive or defensive morph.

4. Endless fury's travel time needs to be adjusted. By this I am referencing when the execute damage hits. When the skill is cast a bolt of lightning lands on the target and applys the damage that occurs outside of execute . When in execute the explosion occurs before that bolt of lightning actually hits the target. I took the time to show this by testing it on a target skeleton.





On the subject of shields. As much as I want to say things like shields and heavy armor need some flat nerfs I think it is necessary to first adjust overall damage.

You are correct on the execute, that's not a bug. It was a change made in one of the old patch notes way back.

Izaki

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Shhh! Most stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

You mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence.

We can't have that. Sorcs need a nerf.

As a matter of fact the Scamp Pulse definitely needs a nerf. When I see that I'm pulling 46.4k on a magicka sorc with just drain and pulling more DPS than that on any my stamina classes (peaks at 45k), there's a problem. Not even the mighty Stam DK can compete with a magicka sorcs in PvE in SINGLE TARGET DPS. And I'm not even talking about AoE where magicka sorc is by far the strongest class at the moment. So yeah, no matter what, Sorcs are OP in at least one aspect of the game this patch, and you can't deny that.

Sure, they don't need a nerf in PVP. Magicka Sorcs are in a very comfortable spot right now.

And for the love of God, stop bringing stamina builds into magicka sorc discussions, since they have literally nothing to do with the class.

Something something PVE argument something something PVP forum.

When everyone sits still in my liquid lightning plus wall of elements instead of side stepping it... come back and bring this to the table. I don't give a rats behind what a sorc can do to some stupid mob.

Something something balance can't be limited to just one part of the game something something PvP is only one part of the game. So I don't give a rat's *** if its a PvP forum, when there's talk of balance, both part of the game must be included.

Don't think that you can balance the class in PvP without touching it in PvE. Wanna know why? Cause the abilities don't change.

Besides you know damn well that no one even thinks of walking out of those AOEs.

Minalan

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Shhh! Most stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

You mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence.

We can't have that. Sorcs need a nerf.

As a matter of fact the Scamp Pulse definitely needs a nerf. When I see that I'm pulling 46.4k on a magicka sorc with just drain and pulling more DPS than that on any my stamina classes (peaks at 45k), there's a problem. Not even the mighty Stam DK can compete with a magicka sorcs in PvE in SINGLE TARGET DPS. And I'm not even talking about AoE where magicka sorc is by far the strongest class at the moment. So yeah, no matter what, Sorcs are OP in at least one aspect of the game this patch, and you can't deny that.

Sure, they don't need a nerf in PVP. Magicka Sorcs are in a very comfortable spot right now.

And for the love of God, stop bringing stamina builds into magicka sorc discussions, since they have literally nothing to do with the class.

Something something PVE argument something something PVP forum.

When everyone sits still in my liquid lightning plus wall of elements instead of side stepping it... come back and bring this to the table. I don't give a rats behind what a sorc can do to some stupid mob.

Something something balance can't be limited to just one part of the game something something PvP is only one part of the game. So I don't give a rat's *** if its a PvP forum, when there's talk of balance, both part of the game must be included.

Don't think that you can balance the class in PvP without touching it in PvE. Wanna know why? Cause the abilities don't change.

Then nerf liquid lightning and wall of elements. Problem solved? That's a huge potion of your PVE damage per second right there.

I don't see why damage that a sorc can't bring to bear in PVP makes the class over performing in PVP, it's not relevant to the discussion.

Izaki

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Shhh! Most stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

You mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence.

We can't have that. Sorcs need a nerf.

As a matter of fact the Scamp Pulse definitely needs a nerf. When I see that I'm pulling 46.4k on a magicka sorc with just drain and pulling more DPS than that on any my stamina classes (peaks at 45k), there's a problem. Not even the mighty Stam DK can compete with a magicka sorcs in PvE in SINGLE TARGET DPS. And I'm not even talking about AoE where magicka sorc is by far the strongest class at the moment. So yeah, no matter what, Sorcs are OP in at least one aspect of the game this patch, and you can't deny that.

Sure, they don't need a nerf in PVP. Magicka Sorcs are in a very comfortable spot right now.

And for the love of God, stop bringing stamina builds into magicka sorc discussions, since they have literally nothing to do with the class.

Actually discussing stam builds is relevant since they are part of the same game. Sorc doesn't exist in a vacuum. Keeping things in perspective is how you determine where balance is and what things already have appropriate counters.

Discussing stam builds is totally relevant, but "stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit" and "you mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence" isn't actually doing anything to the discussion on balance of the magicka sorcerer. Especially due to the fact that both of these statements are a pile of ***.

manny254

Minalan wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Can we just actually look things that need to be adjusted.

1.% Damage reductions should not apply to shields except for CP passives. Some examples are Pirate Skeleton, Vampire undeath, and resto ult.

2. Both morphs of Dark Exchange need a complete rework or some huge nerfs. One morph allows heavy armor stam sorcs to stack all damage, and play with almost no sustain investment. The other morph allows amberplasm magicka sorcs to have infinite magicka with careful play. This skill is one of the most over performing skills in the game. I am amazed that more people do not point this out.

3.Overall the available ults need rebalancing. Negate and destro ult are super powerful, but they are so powerful that group fights can be won just by spamming them. This makes battles even more numbers reliant. If a enemy group can stack more destro ult than you have people they can just walk forward and kill you, or they can layer an area with so many negates you can not even try to form some sort of counter play. Another ult that needs rebalancing is the resto ulti. It currently does too much for it's cost. This skill essentially makes the user unkillable while giving them major force for the duration. My suggestion would be forcing the user to choose between an offensive or defensive morph.

4. Endless fury's travel time needs to be adjusted. By this I am referencing when the execute damage hits. When the skill is cast a bolt of lightning lands on the target and applys the damage that occurs outside of execute . When in execute the explosion occurs before that bolt of lightning actually hits the target. I took the time to show this by testing it on a target skeleton.





On the subject of shields. As much as I want to say things like shields and heavy armor need some flat nerfs I think it is necessary to first adjust overall damage.

You are correct on the execute, that's not a bug. It was a change made in one of the old patch notes way back.

Bats costs being reducible to almost zero was considered working as intended. That does not mean it was balanced. The travel time should be consistent with the animation so players can react properly.

Izaki

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Shhh! Most stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

You mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence.

We can't have that. Sorcs need a nerf.

As a matter of fact the Scamp Pulse definitely needs a nerf. When I see that I'm pulling 46.4k on a magicka sorc with just drain and pulling more DPS than that on any my stamina classes (peaks at 45k), there's a problem. Not even the mighty Stam DK can compete with a magicka sorcs in PvE in SINGLE TARGET DPS. And I'm not even talking about AoE where magicka sorc is by far the strongest class at the moment. So yeah, no matter what, Sorcs are OP in at least one aspect of the game this patch, and you can't deny that.

Sure, they don't need a nerf in PVP. Magicka Sorcs are in a very comfortable spot right now.

And for the love of God, stop bringing stamina builds into magicka sorc discussions, since they have literally nothing to do with the class.

Something something PVE argument something something PVP forum.

When everyone sits still in my liquid lightning plus wall of elements instead of side stepping it... come back and bring this to the table. I don't give a rats behind what a sorc can do to some stupid mob.

Something something balance can't be limited to just one part of the game something something PvP is only one part of the game. So I don't give a rat's *** if its a PvP forum, when there's talk of balance, both part of the game must be included.

Don't think that you can balance the class in PvP without touching it in PvE. Wanna know why? Cause the abilities don't change.

Then nerf liquid lightning and wall of elements. Problem solved? That's a huge potion of your PVE damage per second right there.

I don't see why damage that a sorc can't bring to bear in PVP makes the class over performing in PVP, it's not relevant to the discussion.

Did you even read this yourself before posting? You said (sarcastically) " Sorcs need a nerf" as I pointed out that as a matter of fact they do. Specifically the Scamp. The nerf has something to do with PvP. It is very relevant to the discussion.

Izaki

manny254 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Can we just actually look things that need to be adjusted.

1.% Damage reductions should not apply to shields except for CP passives. Some examples are Pirate Skeleton, Vampire undeath, and resto ult.

2. Both morphs of Dark Exchange need a complete rework or some huge nerfs. One morph allows heavy armor stam sorcs to stack all damage, and play with almost no sustain investment. The other morph allows amberplasm magicka sorcs to have infinite magicka with careful play. This skill is one of the most over performing skills in the game. I am amazed that more people do not point this out.

3.Overall the available ults need rebalancing. Negate and destro ult are super powerful, but they are so powerful that group fights can be won just by spamming them. This makes battles even more numbers reliant. If a enemy group can stack more destro ult than you have people they can just walk forward and kill you, or they can layer an area with so many negates you can not even try to form some sort of counter play. Another ult that needs rebalancing is the resto ulti. It currently does too much for it's cost. This skill essentially makes the user unkillable while giving them major force for the duration. My suggestion would be forcing the user to choose between an offensive or defensive morph.

4. Endless fury's travel time needs to be adjusted. By this I am referencing when the execute damage hits. When the skill is cast a bolt of lightning lands on the target and applys the damage that occurs outside of execute . When in execute the explosion occurs before that bolt of lightning actually hits the target. I took the time to show this by testing it on a target skeleton.





On the subject of shields. As much as I want to say things like shields and heavy armor need some flat nerfs I think it is necessary to first adjust overall damage.

You are correct on the execute, that's not a bug. It was a change made in one of the old patch notes way back.

Bats costs being reducible to almost zero was considered working as intended. That does not mean it was balanced. The travel time should be consistent with the animation so players can react properly.

That was changed due to the fact that the animation was too obvious and the execute was never doing its job correctly (always blocked or dodged or outhealed before it hit), so they made it instant. The Mage's Wrath explosion has nothing to do with the projectile anymore. Its just as instant as Impale/Killer's Blade, Jesus Beam as Reverse Slice/Executionner.

Frondale

I am so sick and tired of the Nerf Brigades. QQ cotton wool factory is over that way

Irylia

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Publius_Scipio honestly ur comments just seem to be an advertisement of one player vs other, and has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I personally don't care if u have a shrine of iralia in ur closet. But I can tell u this that iralia has been beaten by xevenex and has never beaten him when he still played. Iralia has lost to german on his sorc, he has lost to kena on his sorc, he has lost to a variety of other players as well. Duels don't matter to me man. Iralia is a great top tier player but .... I don't care cause right now the discussion is about magicka sorc being reworked not ur fixation on iralia thanks.

1. I've never dueled German. I have dueled his newest acc and I have all the recordings of 5+ wins.
2. I've dueled kena sorc 2 times. I won 1 (my friends were all there) and the other one was called off as kena had to go.
3. I've dueled xevenex outside of sej and we went 1/1 I never dueled him after 1 tam.

Stop spreading rumors. This is how micah bayer met his downfall.

We dueled in Stormhaven during One Tamriel. I went 3/2 on my sorc and took over a dozen wins on FRIGHT. You won one against her because my Witchmother's drink ran out at the start, killing my sustain, but that one was still a pretty long fight with some near kills. I went back to look at the clips to make sure those numbers were right.

I barely play my sorc, though. so I don't know why I'm being dragged into this.

Derra wrote: »

@Hexys haunting curse pretty much is nonexistant for pve as a sorc currently.

Wasn't that supposed to be some huge deal for PvE?

Kena I've never dueled your magsorc outside of cyro. But if you are so sure of your 3/2 I'll do a best of 5 and record all of them. No harness/pirate/resto ult.
Your magnb beat my pet sorc build and a bunch of other set ups that I tried (no wards/self healing/etc). Nice. Yes you did beat it a bunch. Nice. Make sure you specify.

NightbladeMechanics

Irylia wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Publius_Scipio honestly ur comments just seem to be an advertisement of one player vs other, and has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I personally don't care if u have a shrine of iralia in ur closet. But I can tell u this that iralia has been beaten by xevenex and has never beaten him when he still played. Iralia has lost to german on his sorc, he has lost to kena on his sorc, he has lost to a variety of other players as well. Duels don't matter to me man. Iralia is a great top tier player but .... I don't care cause right now the discussion is about magicka sorc being reworked not ur fixation on iralia thanks.

1. I've never dueled German. I have dueled his newest acc and I have all the recordings of 5+ wins.
2. I've dueled kena sorc 2 times. I won 1 (my friends were all there) and the other one was called off as kena had to go.
3. I've dueled xevenex outside of sej and we went 1/1 I never dueled him after 1 tam.

Stop spreading rumors. This is how micah bayer met his downfall.

We dueled in Stormhaven during One Tamriel. I went 3/2 on my sorc and took over a dozen wins on FRIGHT. You won one against her because my Witchmother's drink ran out at the start, killing my sustain, but that one was still a pretty long fight with some near kills. I went back to look at the clips to make sure those numbers were right.

I barely play my sorc, though. so I don't know why I'm being dragged into this.

Derra wrote: »

@Hexys haunting curse pretty much is nonexistant for pve as a sorc currently.

Wasn't that supposed to be some huge deal for PvE?

Kena I've never dueled your magsorc outside of cyro. But if you are so sure of your 3/2 I'll do a best of 5 and record all of them. No harness/pirate/resto ult.
Your magnb beat my pet sorc build and a bunch of other set ups that I tried (no wards/self healing/etc). Nice. Yes you did beat it a bunch. Nice. Make sure you specify.

You were on your pet sorc build in the sorc v sorc fights too. I only ever saw you dueling with pets during One Tamriel. Pet sorc is the best class for duels, and that was the big dueling patch, so I assumed you specced to pets because they were strong. You were using shields and Twilight Matriarch for healing when I saw you, too.

I brought the fights up to specify because you and Invel started talking about me for some reason, and you said that some other duel that I don't even remember was our only fight. When did that fight happen anyway?

Irylia

@NightbladeMechanics South of Alesw along the road to ash. Slightly to the SW of the open world tower. You died to meteor and said you swapped bars when you had to block. Went on to whisper me about what I was running/you had amberplasm. That it was a non-toxic conversation. I'm also pretty sure your messages were showing up in the video that I recorded. "tower shenanigans" 5 min in.

The other duel was by DC lock to chal and you postponed it because someone was at the door.

I didn't bring you up, invel did. I was correcting it.

I was using pets for fun because they are enjoyable to fight with 1v1. It's more of an entertainment troll build for me when I don't really want to play. But yes you beat the pet build/permafrost build/etc.

NightbladeMechanics

Irylia wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics South of Alesw along the road to ash. Slightly to the SW of the open world tower. You died to meteor and said you swapped bars when you had to block.

The other duel was by DC lock to chal and you postponed it because someone was at the door.

I didn't bring you up, invel did. I was correcting it.

I was using pets for fun because they are enjoyable to fight with 1v1. It's more of an entertainment troll build for me when I don't really want to play. But yes you beat the pet build/permafrost build/etc.

That pet build was bloody obnoxious.

I remember that duel south of Ales. That was in early Dark Brotherhood patch right after I made my sorc. I remember because it was also the fight when I learned weapon swapping now drops block. I did some digging later that patch and learned that's a bug which had existed prior to DB patch, but the animation priority changes mucked it up even more.

Idk who brought me up originally, and I don't care. I'm here to lend insight to the balance discussion, not to be pulled into a sorc forum PvP *** measuring contest.

Joy_Division

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Joy_Division I appreciate ur reply... that is why I am saying if sorcs are buffed with streak in that they can successfully use it to make distance turn around and burst and rinse and repeat then mag sorcs should give up some survivability because shield stacking has been complained about forever now. So my proposition is that zos should get rid of being able to stack multiple shields at once namely harness and hardened together because that poses a serious problem. And by doing so removing the ability to spam stack shields zos should buff the crap out of streak because that way sorcs will rely on mobility for defense and really be close to their original design of the game. ( A glass canon kiting class)

I understand your reasoning. But your proposal gives sorcerers what is in essence a speed hack, which is abusive and much stronger than losing a single shield. Indeed, Zos nerfed streak long before shield stacking became fashionable.

Derra

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Joy_Division I appreciate ur reply... that is why I am saying if sorcs are buffed with streak in that they can successfully use it to make distance turn around and burst and rinse and repeat then mag sorcs should give up some survivability because shield stacking has been complained about forever now. So my proposition is that zos should get rid of being able to stack multiple shields at once namely harness and hardened together because that poses a serious problem. And by doing so removing the ability to spam stack shields zos should buff the crap out of streak because that way sorcs will rely on mobility for defense and really be close to their original design of the game. ( A glass canon kiting class)

I understand your reasoning. But your proposal gives sorcerers what is in essence a speed hack, which is abusive and much stronger than losing a single shield. Indeed, Zos nerfed streak long before shield stacking became fashionable.

Atleast from what i know shieldstacking (against magica builds) was a thing already in patch 1.3?

Most of the streak nerfs came after that.

Lord_Invel

@Joy_Division it might be abusive as in a mag sorc can harass a group if he just constantly spams streak in and out licks his wounds and rinses and repeats the process I understand that. But that is when that group when being harassed by the same mag sorc should make an effort to snare the sorc root him and gap close him all the more and if that doesn't work then they should send their own sorc to chase him/her down in an effort to implement a unique combat in the game that is accustomed to sorcs only. This will honestly also help people spread out more instead of constantly zerging. And by the way I will be making a thread about mobility as well. I don't just want sorc mobility to be buffed I want all the classes to have a comparable form of being mobile in their unique ways.

Lord_Invel

@Irylia @NightbladeMechanics for the record I never brought u guys up .... without pointing the finger in a childish manor publius did but I kinda understand what he was trying to explain now. However at the same time he could have done it in a non braggadocious way in comparing other players to each other which is a non valid way to asses a class' potential

Lord_Invel

@Lord_Hev I do agree with u in a way that sorc is in a comfortable position in spite of the nerfs it previously received following after thieves guild patch. However I would like to see mag sorc changed where kiting isn't so easily countered and punishable by snares and gap close spamming and roots and talons haha. I would like zos to balance out streak a bit if that means that zos wants to nerf shields or daedric mines I am ok with that. I am just simply suggesting that zos needs to make a calculated effort to support mobility in pvp rather than zerging and being tanky as they are currently promoting the pvp zones in cyrodiil. And I think a good place to start is with sorcerer streak.

Irylia

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Joy_Division it might be abusive as in a mag sorc can harass a group if he just constantly spams streak in and out licks his wounds and rinses and repeats the process I understand that. But that is when that group when being harassed by the same mag sorc should make an effort to snare the sorc root him and gap close him all the more and if that doesn't work then they should send their own sorc to chase him/her down in an effort to implement a unique combat in the game that is accustomed to sorcs only. This will honestly also help people spread out more instead of constantly zerging. And by the way I will be making a thread about mobility as well. I don't just want sorc mobility to be buffed I want all the classes to have a comparable form of being mobile in their unique ways.

Having sorcs be a way to react and potentially chase after the harassing sorc would be cool.

Lord_Invel

@Irylia YES if sorcs in cyrodiil had some intrinsic value, as in the way to counter sorcs is with another sorc imagine how enjoyable the battles would be!!! Like it would be a streak vs streak battle around cyrodiil which would honestly spread many players out and allow for some fun and unique pvp playstyles!

Minalan

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Shhh! Most stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

You mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence.

We can't have that. Sorcs need a nerf.

As a matter of fact the Scamp Pulse definitely needs a nerf. When I see that I'm pulling 46.4k on a magicka sorc with just drain and pulling more DPS than that on any my stamina classes (peaks at 45k), there's a problem. Not even the mighty Stam DK can compete with a magicka sorcs in PvE in SINGLE TARGET DPS. And I'm not even talking about AoE where magicka sorc is by far the strongest class at the moment. So yeah, no matter what, Sorcs are OP in at least one aspect of the game this patch, and you can't deny that.

Sure, they don't need a nerf in PVP. Magicka Sorcs are in a very comfortable spot right now.

And for the love of God, stop bringing stamina builds into magicka sorc discussions, since they have literally nothing to do with the class.

Something something PVE argument something something PVP forum.

When everyone sits still in my liquid lightning plus wall of elements instead of side stepping it... come back and bring this to the table. I don't give a rats behind what a sorc can do to some stupid mob.

Something something balance can't be limited to just one part of the game something something PvP is only one part of the game. So I don't give a rat's *** if its a PvP forum, when there's talk of balance, both part of the game must be included.

Don't think that you can balance the class in PvP without touching it in PvE. Wanna know why? Cause the abilities don't change.

Then nerf liquid lightning and wall of elements. Problem solved? That's a huge potion of your PVE damage per second right there.

I don't see why damage that a sorc can't bring to bear in PVP makes the class over performing in PVP, it's not relevant to the discussion.

Did you even read this yourself before posting? You said (sarcastically) " Sorcs need a nerf" as I pointed out that as a matter of fact they do. Specifically the Scamp. The nerf has something to do with PvP. It is very relevant to the discussion.

Apparently I put more thought into my post than you just did. PVE performance has very little to do with PVP balance. Does anyone seriously use the scamp pulse in open PVP? Is it really that relevant?

Answers:
1. A few.
2. Not really. Nobody is dying left and right to scamp pulse.

Honestly, I thought we were cool. Guess not?

Derra

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Shhh! Most stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

You mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence.

We can't have that. Sorcs need a nerf.

As a matter of fact the Scamp Pulse definitely needs a nerf. When I see that I'm pulling 46.4k on a magicka sorc with just drain and pulling more DPS than that on any my stamina classes (peaks at 45k), there's a problem. Not even the mighty Stam DK can compete with a magicka sorcs in PvE in SINGLE TARGET DPS. And I'm not even talking about AoE where magicka sorc is by far the strongest class at the moment. So yeah, no matter what, Sorcs are OP in at least one aspect of the game this patch, and you can't deny that.

Sure, they don't need a nerf in PVP. Magicka Sorcs are in a very comfortable spot right now.

And for the love of God, stop bringing stamina builds into magicka sorc discussions, since they have literally nothing to do with the class.

Something something PVE argument something something PVP forum.

When everyone sits still in my liquid lightning plus wall of elements instead of side stepping it... come back and bring this to the table. I don't give a rats behind what a sorc can do to some stupid mob.

Something something balance can't be limited to just one part of the game something something PvP is only one part of the game. So I don't give a rat's *** if its a PvP forum, when there's talk of balance, both part of the game must be included.

Don't think that you can balance the class in PvP without touching it in PvE. Wanna know why? Cause the abilities don't change.

Then nerf liquid lightning and wall of elements. Problem solved? That's a huge potion of your PVE damage per second right there.

I don't see why damage that a sorc can't bring to bear in PVP makes the class over performing in PVP, it's not relevant to the discussion.

Did you even read this yourself before posting? You said (sarcastically) " Sorcs need a nerf" as I pointed out that as a matter of fact they do. Specifically the Scamp. The nerf has something to do with PvP. It is very relevant to the discussion.

Apparently I put more thought into my post than you just did. PVE performance has very little to do with PVP balance. Does anyone seriously use the scamp pulse in open PVP? Is it really that relevant?

Answers:
1. A few.
2. Not really. Nobody is dying left and right to scamp pulse.

Honestly, I thought we were cool. Guess not?

Scamp pulse might get highly relevant for battlegrounds. It hits way harder than impulse and 2 scamps + 4 people all get healed by healing springs.

Izaki

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Shhh! Most stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

You mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence.

We can't have that. Sorcs need a nerf.

As a matter of fact the Scamp Pulse definitely needs a nerf. When I see that I'm pulling 46.4k on a magicka sorc with just drain and pulling more DPS than that on any my stamina classes (peaks at 45k), there's a problem. Not even the mighty Stam DK can compete with a magicka sorcs in PvE in SINGLE TARGET DPS. And I'm not even talking about AoE where magicka sorc is by far the strongest class at the moment. So yeah, no matter what, Sorcs are OP in at least one aspect of the game this patch, and you can't deny that.

Sure, they don't need a nerf in PVP. Magicka Sorcs are in a very comfortable spot right now.

And for the love of God, stop bringing stamina builds into magicka sorc discussions, since they have literally nothing to do with the class.

Something something PVE argument something something PVP forum.

When everyone sits still in my liquid lightning plus wall of elements instead of side stepping it... come back and bring this to the table. I don't give a rats behind what a sorc can do to some stupid mob.

Something something balance can't be limited to just one part of the game something something PvP is only one part of the game. So I don't give a rat's *** if its a PvP forum, when there's talk of balance, both part of the game must be included.

Don't think that you can balance the class in PvP without touching it in PvE. Wanna know why? Cause the abilities don't change.

Then nerf liquid lightning and wall of elements. Problem solved? That's a huge potion of your PVE damage per second right there.

I don't see why damage that a sorc can't bring to bear in PVP makes the class over performing in PVP, it's not relevant to the discussion.

Did you even read this yourself before posting? You said (sarcastically) " Sorcs need a nerf" as I pointed out that as a matter of fact they do. Specifically the Scamp. The nerf has something to do with PvP. It is very relevant to the discussion.

Apparently I put more thought into my post than you just did. PVE performance has very little to do with PVP balance. Does anyone seriously use the scamp pulse in open PVP? Is it really that relevant?

Answers:
1. A few.
2. Not really. Nobody is dying left and right to scamp pulse.

Honestly, I thought we were cool. Guess not?

Nah man, we're still cool, I just got triggered big time by the stamblade part.

But you'd be surprised, pets are actually pretty popular these days in PvP. Unlike Liquid Lightning, the Scamps are totally a valid point for both PvP and PvE, due to the fact that you can effectively use the Scamps in PvP. They are well over the top in PvE, so they totally need some kind of a nerf and it still affects PvP cause people do use the Scamp in PvP as part of their actual build (Nerco and stuff). So in that respect Sorcs do need a nerf. I'm well aware of the fact that they are far from overperforming in your usual PvP build though.

Like Derra said, pets will probably make a big impression in battlegrounds. Close quarters, targeting system... Yeah I reckon they will be pretty common in there.

NBrookus

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Irylia YES if sorcs in cyrodiil had some intrinsic value, as in the way to counter sorcs is with another sorc imagine how enjoyable the battles would be!!! Like it would be a streak vs streak battle around cyrodiil which would honestly spread many players out and allow for some fun and unique pvp playstyles!

So anyone who ISN'T a sorc has to eat their damage, be unable to catch them, and have the sorc keep coming back and taking another whack at it? I can see how that would be fun for the sorcs.

If the answer to sorcs having an OP skill (which streak isn't atm, IMO) is to bring more players, then that can be a justifiable solution for any class imbalance problem.

Publius_Scipio

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Irylia @NightbladeMechanics for the record I never brought u guys up .... without pointing the finger in a childish manor publius did but I kinda understand what he was trying to explain now. However at the same time he could have done it in a non braggadocious way in comparing other players to each other which is a non valid way to asses a class' potential

Again with me. I brought up Iryalia to make present my opinion that magicka sorcs are op. I also never mentioned Kena. Not once. You seem to have thought way too much into me having mentioned Iryalia.

Joy_Division

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Joy_Division it might be abusive as in a mag sorc can harass a group if he just constantly spams streak in and out licks his wounds and rinses and repeats the process I understand that. But that is when that group when being harassed by the same mag sorc should make an effort to snare the sorc root him and gap close him all the more and if that doesn't work then they should send their own sorc to chase him/her down in an effort to implement a unique combat in the game that is accustomed to sorcs only. This will honestly also help people spread out more instead of constantly zerging. And by the way I will be making a thread about mobility as well. I don't just want sorc mobility to be buffed I want all the classes to have a comparable form of being mobile in their unique ways.

It's not just a sorc Vs a group.

If log on my templar and am all by myself and outplay a sorcerer only to see her constantly and consistently streak away and then come back to reengage, that is the type of mechanic that will cause me to log off and play another game. Not just because it's incredibly frustrating, but because it's incredibly overpowered.

I will remind you that you yourself admitted you can already do this against most players who are not experienced or invest resources in mobility.

If DKs and templars have a comparable form of mobility as you wish, ask me again for my opinion. I'll probably change it. But if that were to happen, then wouldn't that make Streak pointless as the very function in the game - a mobility advantage - becomes moot?

Minalan

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Shhh! Most stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

You mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence.

We can't have that. Sorcs need a nerf.

As a matter of fact the Scamp Pulse definitely needs a nerf. When I see that I'm pulling 46.4k on a magicka sorc with just drain and pulling more DPS than that on any my stamina classes (peaks at 45k), there's a problem. Not even the mighty Stam DK can compete with a magicka sorcs in PvE in SINGLE TARGET DPS. And I'm not even talking about AoE where magicka sorc is by far the strongest class at the moment. So yeah, no matter what, Sorcs are OP in at least one aspect of the game this patch, and you can't deny that.

Sure, they don't need a nerf in PVP. Magicka Sorcs are in a very comfortable spot right now.

And for the love of God, stop bringing stamina builds into magicka sorc discussions, since they have literally nothing to do with the class.

Something something PVE argument something something PVP forum.

When everyone sits still in my liquid lightning plus wall of elements instead of side stepping it... come back and bring this to the table. I don't give a rats behind what a sorc can do to some stupid mob.

Something something balance can't be limited to just one part of the game something something PvP is only one part of the game. So I don't give a rat's *** if its a PvP forum, when there's talk of balance, both part of the game must be included.

Don't think that you can balance the class in PvP without touching it in PvE. Wanna know why? Cause the abilities don't change.

Then nerf liquid lightning and wall of elements. Problem solved? That's a huge potion of your PVE damage per second right there.

I don't see why damage that a sorc can't bring to bear in PVP makes the class over performing in PVP, it's not relevant to the discussion.

Did you even read this yourself before posting? You said (sarcastically) " Sorcs need a nerf" as I pointed out that as a matter of fact they do. Specifically the Scamp. The nerf has something to do with PvP. It is very relevant to the discussion.

Apparently I put more thought into my post than you just did. PVE performance has very little to do with PVP balance. Does anyone seriously use the scamp pulse in open PVP? Is it really that relevant?

Answers:
1. A few.
2. Not really. Nobody is dying left and right to scamp pulse.

Honestly, I thought we were cool. Guess not?

Nah man, we're still cool, I just got triggered big time by the stamblade part.

But you'd be surprised, pets are actually pretty popular these days in PvP. Unlike Liquid Lightning, the Scamps are totally a valid point for both PvP and PvE, due to the fact that you can effectively use the Scamps in PvP. They are well over the top in PvE, so they totally need some kind of a nerf and it still affects PvP cause people do use the Scamp in PvP as part of their actual build (Nerco and stuff). So in that respect Sorcs do need a nerf. I'm well aware of the fact that they are far from overperforming in your usual PvP build though.

Like Derra said, pets will probably make a big impression in battlegrounds. Close quarters, targeting system... Yeah I reckon they will be pretty common in there.

I was messing with pets last night, I tried a conjurer type build in no-CP for the hell of it. Standard Lich and Necropotence setup with Maw, nothing imaginative. I figured Maw might not suck in a No-CP campaign with lower damage and limited resources.

My scamp kept getting lost. The maw daedroth got stuck on a rock, twice. Then he got confused and broken when the guy he chased cloaked off. Maybe there were just too many enemies and lag did it?

Maybe that'll be different in battlegrounds, but I still wasn't feeling it.