Magicka Sorcerors OP !!??? Should the class be reworked? Will streak ever get buffed?

BuggeX

sorcs are fine, shild stack is to strong imho, there isnt such a way to melt a effective health of 40-50k in seconds.
shields should be affected by Major deffile and Major mending

Aedaryl

The magicka Sorcerer classis very well balanced.

The only OP things about the class are

-The way to stack the same curse morph.

-The volatile familiar pulse need the damage nerf by 10%, but only if heavy armor is nerf.

Now, things that make sorc OP are :

Pirate skeleton : it should be 15% less damage instead of 30%

Shield stacking : it should be a major and minor system that make hardened ward and light armor ward not stackable like now,, maybe make the second major shield cut by 33%.

Irylia

@Lord_Invel If no one cares why bring it up.

You weren't outside of sej when xev and I dueled. I've never dueled xevenex outside of those duels. It's starting to sound like your classic response to everyone "Oh I dueled you by apprentice mundus and won all of them, don't you remember. smh lol"

Stfu. Xev has never dueled me since those sej duels.

"third of all did I mention no one cares like seriously nobody cares at all" You sure found it necessary to bring up players who "beat" me even though the discussion wasn't about me. Sit back down beta. Stay on topic or gtfo.

usmcjdking

Shields need to be non-freshable.

Irylia

Sorc Changes:

1. Change how Pirate skeleton applies/works with shields (This is the biggest set strength a sorc can obtain currently and the up time is pretty insane). I wouldn't mind this being changed which will help other classes kill sorcs.
2. Fix streak with 1 of the various options.
2a. Every time you streak the cost increase will remain the same but if you are gap closed by an enemy the next streak won't increase in cost. Every time someone gap closes you it will remain at the current "stacked" cost. You can apply this by saying are you gap closed 1-2 seconds after your streak cast? If so your next streak within 1/2 seconds wont have an increased cost.
2b. Remove the delay on the front or end of streak.
2c. Have streak remove slows/snares.

3. Destro ult should be completely reworked into a 150 ult based on your destro staff.
-Inferno: Lobs a fireball at a single target. Can't be dodge but can be blocked. increases your damage to that target by 8% for x seconds (6?).
-Ice: Creates an AOE ice ring (think of the ice atro boss in IC) that shoots out frost clenches in a radius. rooting enemies who enter and dealing damage over time.
-Lightning: A cone much like DB. Disorient targets in the cone and deal mag damage.

*Note* This change of ult removes the extra particles which could add to server strain and most importantly removes the aids gameplay that we now have. Pop destro and run around.
-If nothing else have destro ult deal damage based on enemies in the aoe. (Think of prox det)

I have issues with other skills but I'll leave it like this for now so it isn't saturated.

Thanks,

Irylia

Derra

usmcjdking wrote: »

Shields need to be non-freshable.

Nonsense.
This only leads to more shieldstacking.
Ie: You cast shield1 shield2 shield1 shield2 alternating all the time.

Congrats. You now effectively forced every sorc to utilize atleast 2 shields.

Minalan

Hexys wrote: »

I see that sorcerers are over performing damage-wise in PvE, a nerf to curse will probably hurt this high amount of damage but makes it more equal towards other classes.
In PvP I see curse equal as purifying light/power of the light, which the target can only have one active from at the time. This is a very reasonable decision and is fair/balanced if placed in the game. I know already what you are thinking, so deadric prey will not work as the tooltip says 'your pets deal additional damage?' Yes, then change it to a debuff, when you deadric prey a target it takes increased damage from all pets.

As for streak, I think it's quite balanced, maybe reduce the 4 seconds to 2 or 3 seconds so it can't be straight spammed, but keeps your magicka sustain reasonable.

@Publius_Scipio Medium armor Stamblade open world is only hard because your damage-window is really short while an above-averaged magicka sorc/tank dk/templar can stay alive really well during this window pushing the stamblade back on defence, if you yolo and give in you gonna die.

I disagree that stamblades are getting stomped versus a magicka sorcerer, you just gotta play super defensive and dodge every single crystal fragment!

@Hexys any nerf to curse (other than maybe removing the 'haunting' explosion) would be the last nail in the coffin for dual wield sorc builds. Not all of us want to run in PVP with a fire stick and the Destro ultimate.

No thanks. How about we not beg ZOS for additional class nerfs. They'll do that all by themselves.

NightbladeMechanics

Irylia wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Publius_Scipio honestly ur comments just seem to be an advertisement of one player vs other, and has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I personally don't care if u have a shrine of iralia in ur closet. But I can tell u this that iralia has been beaten by xevenex and has never beaten him when he still played. Iralia has lost to german on his sorc, he has lost to kena on his sorc, he has lost to a variety of other players as well. Duels don't matter to me man. Iralia is a great top tier player but .... I don't care cause right now the discussion is about magicka sorc being reworked not ur fixation on iralia thanks.

1. I've never dueled German. I have dueled his newest acc and I have all the recordings of 5+ wins.
2. I've dueled kena sorc 2 times. I won 1 (my friends were all there) and the other one was called off as kena had to go.
3. I've dueled xevenex outside of sej and we went 1/1 I never dueled him after 1 tam.

Stop spreading rumors. This is how micah bayer met his downfall.

We dueled in Stormhaven during One Tamriel. I went 3/2 on my sorc and took over a dozen wins on FRIGHT. You won one against her because my Witchmother's drink ran out at the start, killing my sustain, but that one was still a pretty long fight with some near kills. I went back to look at the clips to make sure those numbers were right.

I barely play my sorc, though. so I don't know why I'm being dragged into this.

Derra wrote: »

@Hexys haunting curse pretty much is nonexistant for pve as a sorc currently.

Wasn't that supposed to be some huge deal for PvE?

Irylia

usmcjdking wrote: »

Shields need to be non-freshable.

Okay so now this is the line of play.

Magsorc: hard ward (10k-15k ward)
Stamdk: Dswing + Heavy (10-12k)
Magsorc: (3k) ward remains. Can't reward.
Options - 1. Cast harness thus covering hard ward and preventing it from falling. 2. Don't cast a ward. Wait for dmg to be dealt

Stamdk: Two lines of play.
1. If no ward placed over hard. Wait out cc immunity. (mag sorc has 3k ward). dswing/heavy leap execute. Dead before another shield can be placed
2. If harness is placed up. Just heavy to put harness at 1-3k. Both wards = 5-6k together. Wait out cc immunity. Do combo = kill in cc air.

Only counter is for the sorc to be ready or on point with a block for the cc thus draining stam bar more and eventually leading to death on top of cc break/roll/extra blocking.

Where is the risk for the stam guy?

I'd play max mag sorc at that point and just get obnoxious wards on top of dmg mit. Hate me more.

Or. every class defense/mitigation has to work the same way. Sorcs only have wards to prevent ALL incoming damage. Because they are forced to take all damage even if it's non crit.

Remove shuffle rng and how block works. Make everyone actively mitigate and get good.

Derra

Irylia wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Shields need to be non-freshable.

Okay so now this is the line of play.

Magsorc: hard ward (10k-15k ward)
Stamdk: Dswing + Heavy (10-12k)
Magsorc: (3k) ward remains. Can't reward.
Options - 1. Cast harness thus covering hard ward and preventing it from falling. 2. Don't cast a ward. Wait for dmg to be dealt

Stamdk: Two lines of play.
1. If no ward placed over hard. Wait out cc immunity. (mag sorc has 3k ward). dswing/heavy leap execute. Dead before another shield can be placed
2. If harness is placed up. Just heavy to put harness at 1-3k. Both wards = 5-6k together. Wait out cc immunity. Do combo = kill in cc air.

Only counter is for the sorc to be ready or on point with a block for the cc thus draining stam bar more and eventually leading to death on top of cc break/roll/extra blocking.

Where is the risk for the stam guy?

I'd play max mag sorc at that point and just get obnoxious wards on top of dmg mit. Hate me more.

Bolded does not work.

The shield that was casted first gets used up first. That ensures that casting alternate shields always uses one up before the other is touched. You can always recast either harness or hardened.

The only thing nonrefreshable shields achieve is everyone running with more shields.

Lord_Invel

@Irylia Actually ur correct on one thing the problem is that I never brought ur name up publius scipio was the one worshipping u not me so get that in check. I simply stated that ur not a god and that u have been beaten by kena in reapers march twice when u and I were "cool" with each other we both dueled kena I lost and won once, and u lost twice against him and we both beat him once that was back in the day. Then the time u dueled german was at syphers one tamriel tournament and u lost to him twice this was when I was on my other eso account. The time I am talking about when u dueled xevenex was not at the mundus stone lol it was near faregyl aside from the mundus stone where u and sam and I were testing new builds and bound armor to see if it was viable. I beat u once, u beat me twice. Sam beat me once and I beat sam once this was when I had 387 cp points. Then I asked if we should duel with xevenex as he and I run the same seutp but I had lower cp points so for u guys to test ur builds against me would be kinda useless since I had not as much cp and undaunted passives as xevenex did. You guys both dueled him and lost and nothing.... absolutely nothing is wrong with losing lol. Its not my fault ur insecure about it.

Lord_Invel

lol don't know what happened and why my message got sent multiple times.

Lord_Invel

sorry lol my messages keep getting sent multiple times making look like I'm spamming the same message over and over again lol

Lord_Invel

@Irylia As far as ur ideas go for the class changes I thank u for ur feedback. I believe ur idea for streak/ball of lightning is a healthy change for the class and that destro ult definitely needs a rework. Also pirates skeleton is super op on magicka sorc as of now and that needs to be addressed ASAP.

Publius_Scipio

I mean, I don't know what else there is for me to say about this. You're hung up on me having brought up his name. This thread is about whether or not people feel magicka sorc is or isn't op. I feel as though magicka sorc can be super op right now. All I did to make my point was point to Iryalia (I don't think the examples I gave are fake news). If you feel as though his magicka sorc isn't some crazy op build, well then, i'd hate to run into in-game your definition of "op".

Lord_Hev

This thread is so much disappoint.

Lord_Invel

@Publius_Scipio I wasn't hung up on it u mentioned iralia twice before I responded to your comments lol but I really don't care sorry if that wasn't ur intention but I simply said its not appropriate to bring up people vs other people as a basis of defining a class. Especially when u are comparing really good players with high ass egos lol. On that note I would like to focus our attention on ideas to rework the class and bring it to zos attention.

Lord_Invel

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

HoloYoitsu

usmcjdking wrote: »

Shields need to be non-freshable.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

This thread is so much disappoint.

usmcjdking

Irylia wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Shields need to be non-freshable.

Okay so now this is the line of play.

Magsorc: hard ward (10k-15k ward)
Stamdk: Dswing + Heavy (10-12k)
Magsorc: (3k) ward remains. Can't reward.
Options - 1. Cast harness thus covering hard ward and preventing it from falling. 2. Don't cast a ward. Wait for dmg to be dealt

Stamdk: Two lines of play.
1. If no ward placed over hard. Wait out cc immunity. (mag sorc has 3k ward). dswing/heavy leap execute. Dead before another shield can be placed
2. If harness is placed up. Just heavy to put harness at 1-3k. Both wards = 5-6k together. Wait out cc immunity. Do combo = kill in cc air.

Only counter is for the sorc to be ready or on point with a block for the cc thus draining stam bar more and eventually leading to death on top of cc break/roll/extra blocking.

Where is the risk for the stam guy?

I'd play max mag sorc at that point and just get obnoxious wards on top of dmg mit. Hate me more.

Or. every class defense/mitigation has to work the same way. Sorcs only have wards to prevent ALL incoming damage. Because they are forced to take all damage even if it's non crit.

Remove shuffle rng and how block works. Make everyone actively mitigate and get good.

The Stam DK has no risk because the sorceror made no offensive ploys to threaten the stam DK. Thus the sorcerer is now in a poor defensive posture just like any other class in light armor would be. The mistake that was made would have been letting the Dizzy go through when sorc has by far the most disruptive skills in the game.

You also missed quite a few valid options in your list.

A) Cast a different shield
Block
C) Dodge Roll
D) Root - sidestep
E) Bolt
F) CC
G) Breakfree - Tripot
H) Do nothing

Light armor has it's issues and is due for some rework, but buffing light armor while LA Sorc continues on it's warpath does not lend to a balanced future.

Lord_Invel

@usmcjdking I agree that light armor needs some rework as well if sorcs shields and mines get toned down as well that is a good idea. I would also like to take into account that streak/ball of lightning needs to be looked at. Sorc mobility is very key if they nerf shields and mines.

Lord_Hev

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Thelon

Lord_Hev wrote: »

This thread is so much disappoint.

HoloYoitsu

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Izaki

Most of the suggestions in this thread are pretty crap. Just let the devs do their job, they are doing it much better than you guys are.

Minalan

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Shhh! Most stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

You mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack all landing in one second from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence.

We can't have that. Sorcs need a nerf. Stop double stacking and surviving that garbage.

NightbladeMechanics

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 34k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

ftfy

Izaki

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Shhh! Most stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

You mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence.

We can't have that. Sorcs need a nerf.

As a matter of fact the Scamp Pulse definitely needs a nerf. When I see that I'm pulling 46.4k on a magicka sorc with just drain and pulling more DPS than that on any my stamina classes (peaks at 45k), there's a problem. Not even the mighty Stam DK can compete with a magicka sorcs in PvE in SINGLE TARGET DPS. And I'm not even talking about AoE where magicka sorc is by far the strongest class at the moment. So yeah, no matter what, Sorcs are OP in at least one aspect of the game this patch, and you can't deny that.

Sure, they don't need a nerf in PVP. Magicka Sorcs are in a very comfortable spot right now.

And for the love of God, stop bringing stamina builds into magicka sorc discussions, since they have literally nothing to do with the class.

Publius_Scipio

HoloYoitsu

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

Meanwhile Onslaught Potatos can literally one shot anything under 28k HP with zero counterplay after engagement because there is no engagement, yet I don't see a single thread about that.

Shhh! Most stam nightblades are too busy complaining that they can't one button gank anymore now that proc sets can't crit.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@Lord_Hev yeah I agree quit disappointing cause I want ideas for class readjustments not peoples egos getting in the way. lmao

I was actually more disappointed in the content and premise of this thread. Sorcerer is not OP, other then Stam Sorcs and pretty much every stam build having the complete package fed to them on a silver platter.


For the first time since the DB changes, I feel like sorc is back in a comfortable spot akin to Thieves Guild patch.

You mean for the first time since DB, a crit rush/dizzy/heavy attack from a stam DK with 6000 weapon damage in heavy armor isn't an instant death sentence.

We can't have that. Sorcs need a nerf.

As a matter of fact the Scamp Pulse definitely needs a nerf. When I see that I'm pulling 46.4k on a magicka sorc with just drain and pulling more DPS than that on any my stamina classes (peaks at 45k), there's a problem. Not even the mighty Stam DK can compete with a magicka sorcs in PvE in SINGLE TARGET DPS. And I'm not even talking about AoE where magicka sorc is by far the strongest class at the moment. So yeah, no matter what, Sorcs are OP in at least one aspect of the game this patch, and you can't deny that.

Sure, they don't need a nerf in PVP. Magicka Sorcs are in a very comfortable spot right now.

And for the love of God, stop bringing stamina builds into magicka sorc discussions, since they have literally nothing to do with the class.

Actually discussing stam builds is relevant since they are part of the same game. Sorc doesn't exist in a vacuum. Keeping things in perspective is how you determine where balance is and what things already have appropriate counters.