Magicka Sorcerors OP !!??? Should the class be reworked? Will streak ever get buffed?

Lord_Invel

I've come to endeavor a certain proposition in regards to a problem that has been in the minds to many of my friends and acquaintances. A proposition that not only will speak to those that are seriously entrapped, and has us all in an enigma of why and how one class can remain so good for so long, but also to those that seriously think that this class is weak in other aspects of the game where it should in many respects shine! This class that I stride to make great in its unique way is Magicka Sorc.

The proposition before us today is are we willing to have a serious discussion about this gem of a class(mag sorc) to improve it for the good or to just bicker and be done with our emotionally long melancholy withdrawing war. Many say that the magicka sorc is in fact the most broken class in pvp , none can deny its strength that goes without say. By far I consider myself an objective observer to this debate. I do love the class considering it is my main and pretty much only class that I currently play, However ! I do not sit in bias respects and sheer loyalty for my own benefit.

I wish to make aware and give attention to many aspects that people complain toward the mechanics of this class that completely nullify its effectiveness and the other aspects of the class that completely break its balance in respects to how overpowered it may be in many cases.

The strengths of the class/weakness lack of the strength :
We all know that throughout all of eso time that shields have been the most complained about issue when facing off against a Mag Sorc. I myself see it as a great problem in the class itself that it has no other way to survive without shields, And Yet, These shields are known to be very overpowering to the general populous of the ESO community. It is relatively easy to roam around cyrodiil spamming shields without consequence of resources and without the possibility of in game death at all ! Not only are shields really strong but sorcerors have a base damage that is extremely effective and boisterous as well. No doubt when mag sorcs pvp in the fields of cyrodiil they are received some of the most repugnant hate whispers. How many a time, have I received complaints about sorc shields being immune to crit , how many a time have I been told that daedric mines are extremely overpowered and deal an insane amount of damage. I would only argue that the reason a sorc needs to use shields and mines is simply because those two things are the only tools available to ones open world success as a mag sorc. So I propose if these two abilities to be changed then sorcs in general need a complete overhaul.

One idea comes to mind that I think would please the majority of players is if damage shields in general become critable. Also if they follow suit to the previous proposition, they need to receive crit resistance and armor resistance passives that way mag sorcs wont be the only class that are successful in pvp at the same time wearing full infused and divines gear, rather than wearing impen gear as that is the common most competitive trait for pvp zones and duels. Right now the fact that shields are so strong being uncritable it allows mag sorcs to stack completely into the max magicka stat pool for everything they need without consequences.... this goes for other classes as well not just mag sorcs however that is a separate matter that as well deserves respectful resolution due to the integrity of the game

The second concept is that if mag sorcs have nerfed shields it would render them quite innefective so they would need a reliable but not overpowered form of defensive healing .... I would recommend to make power surge act in a different way so that it could both give magnificent crit heals based on damage done and at the same time have a cooldown that is reasonable and not make it overperforming.

The third idea I would like to magnify is the problem with sorcerer mines.... Everyone I run into complains about my sorc mines when I duel them or run solo in cyrodiil. My arguments aren't based off of the groveling and misfortunes of my opponents rather the supposition that I see how strong my class can be if I build it a certain way. I would say a healthy and balanced change to sorcerer mines would be to make them root ur opponent how they are now but lower the damage they dish out.... or not allow it to be an instant damage ability rather when they trigger the mine it inflicts a dot on the opponent.

The fourth and final idea I would like to toss in the mix so emphatically and with rigor is this.... FIX STREAK!!! Now I don't mean fix it as in mending the streak bug that has sorcs moving around cryodiil arduously like a man with two crutches who staggers to catch his breath and then out of nowhere one of the crutches breaks in half and he falls. That is how the bug feels in many respects to all players that play the class even stamina sorcs. But what I mean is I believe that if we were to nerf all these aspects of the mag sorc class like I previously listed then streak/ball of lightning should receive quit the significant buff in my opinion. The sorcerer class should be a class that hits hard and is squishy but should have the best mobility in the game. Streak should be and I believe all sorcs agree with me ... streak needs to be reverted back to its former glory. It is harsh to say that with all these nerfs listed above this paragraph that one cant grant us the wish of having streak be reliably used without consequence of our resources .... 50 percent is WAY TO BIG of a cost increase. If sorc is reworked and is in a balanced position with reducing the effectiveness of shields/mines sorc should be given a great defensive mechanic in their streak which is how the original game intended the sorc class to act.

I appreciate everyone who took time to read this post, I appreciate ZOS and everyone in the community who listens with an open mind and I am open to the feedback given! Please give this post ur best opinion on what u think can make the sorc class better and more balanced.

Warm Regards Lord Invel

NightbladeMechanics

TLDR Invel.

zuto40

sooo what youre saying is.... nerf sorc?

Lord_Invel

@zuto40 I mean I don't want mag sorc to be an ass class , what I'm saying is that in some aspects like shields and mines sorc should be nerfed and in the other aspects like streak and power surge sorc should be buffed.... sorcs should be all about kiting and mobility not camping mines and shield stacking, spamming shields.

Lord_Invel

@NightbladeMechanics short summary of my post is ..... nerf sorc shields aka damage shields in general , nerf daedric mines as well.... buff streak and buff power surge. Sorc should be about mobility not tanking with shields in light armor lol.

DHale

Honestly a 13 to 20 k depending on gear i.e. necropotence and bastion shield that lasts for 6 seconds is not OP by any stretch of the imagination. When I am on my stam DK I can bust a sorc's shield down in lesss than four seconds and it takes very little effort actually. When I am on my sorc and get hit by stam builds the crit rush with VMSA weapons into dizzying swing with light attacks in between can get me into exectute range in about six seconds.

If I run bone pirate and immovable pots and two k crit resist then I have a chance. Otherwise there is no chance. That said sorcs are powerful... for six seconds. They are fine where they are. Good in pve and good in groups and ok solo. After the nerf to regen in a June I will retire my sorc again until the lich I run on her is viable again. But fear not, I have 11 other toons to play with.

Lord_Invel

@DHale I am in a position of agreement with ur idea that it is easy to burst a sorc down as magicka sorcerer is my main class. However to the general populous of eso players it is deemed that damage shields are way to strong. One could say it might be just a learn to play issue but I wouldn't take their word for it as I have dueled a great many players who are great at the game and still complain about mag sorcs. That is why I am trying to advocate for a change in the functionality of the class. Buff streak and power surge that way sorcs will be the most mobile and speedy class. Then when those two are buffed nerf shields and nerf daedric mines so it could balance out the buffs.

Thanks for your response.

FENGRUSH

This is now a nerf sorc thread

Lord_Invel

@FENGRUSH haha I do believe that I am advocating for mag sorcs to be nerfed, in some sense ur arrival has affirmed my position I would say lol. However if shields and mines are nerfed like I say they should be power surge and streak should be buffed... this would also benefit stam sorcs.

FENGRUSH

I think the first thing that needs to happen is the skeleton undaunted set needs to be impacted in a pretty serious way. This impacts a lot of builds - when it comes to shields that are not crittable - and shields arent really 'healing'. Healing ward is... but a lot of the damage absorbed is not 'healing'. That set has too much uptime.

This impacts mag sorc more than anything. Theyre already really strong - haunting buff was a lazy backwards unnerf too thats nothing short of obnoxious. I didnt get through the initial post though honestly. Just throwing that out for this patch.

Publius_Scipio

In all honesty something needs to be done to rework shields, or the class in order to rely less on shields. With the right setup and rotation you are looking at sorcs having shields up constantly. And there are sorcs that require a hurculean effort to kill. I guess that can be said of any of the other classes as well, but I feel as though the effort it takes to take down one of these sorcs is disproportionate when compared to the other classes right now in the game's current state.

As good as any of these sorc players are, there is a difference when in control of one of these magicians on screen. For example the Iryalia kid. Love him or hate him he somehow cooked up this crazy sorc build. I witnessed him duel Bill Nye the Science Guy (not the real person, the fake one on EP, and also an ESO build scientist) in Wayrest.

From my point of view it looked like Bill was exerting so much energy during the duel whereas Iryalia with the sorc was calm just going through the rotation. Needless to say Iryalia won 3+ times against that meta 5k+ wep dmg DK. Bill must have lost 5 pounds from sweating irl during those duels. He did win one time that I witnessed, and that's probably because Iryalia's cat crapped on top of his PC distracting him.

Faso was supposed to have become the "king of all sorcs" as everyone was saying only a couple of months ago. And Iryalia with his sorc beats faso's multiple times in a row. So if Faso is a super troll sorc and Iryalia beat him.... Yeah something is off the charts with magicka sorcs right now.

But full disclosure is required, and with that, something needs to be done about regen in general, perma block, etc.

Airyus

I hate sorcs. I hate shields. I hate streak. But please don't nerf them for the sake of the general population. I hate senseless nerfs.

OP made a great case. But again, there should be a way to distinguish experienced players from new ones.

Lord_Invel

@FENGRUSH I absolutely agree that skeleton undaunted set is far to overpowered same with haunting curse it is an unnecessary buff following the destro staff passives being buffed in a large way as well. I believe that zos needs to make a calculated effort to make magicka sorc depend its survivability on its mobility mainly. Like I said before all of these minor buffs that weren't necessarily a class buff is a precursor as to why mag sorc is overpowered. However I use nearly fully crafted gear and have 49k magicka and a hardened ward that hits for 29k in pve and 15k in pvp without using pets at all. This is because I stack all infused and divines which in turn buffs my damage and my max magicka pool at the same time. This is another reason why mag sorc is really strong because it isn't forced to wear impen like every other class in the game is force to do so in pvp zones.

DHale

I see you in a lot of twitch streams and you watch them all, you know that not one of the great players will play a magic sorc for more than a day. None of them main one and why don't they. it's certainly not that they are over powered. If they were that strong there would be a lot more sorc EMP there would a lot more 1 v x sorcs there would be a lot more force siphon there aren't. On NA PC there is irylias, the Arcane and Force siphon who can legitametly do well on a Sorc. Then Faso then after that is really no one that can 1 v x with a sorc.

Yes Sypher and yoyui and even Kodi can do really well but they rarely play a Sorc. That said, I don't believe doing well in a duel is a legitimate evaluation of the class. Most duels with sorcs are mine camping and kiting while using the old stand by the curse heavy attack frag endless jury with a force pulse or crushing shock to proc the frag thrown in for good measure. Not much variety or variation whether or not the sorc is a novice or expert at the class or dueling in general.

I just don't believe that classes will ever be balanced as there is too much skill gap with the great players all the way to new players. We will all have classes we like and those we dislike. I just want ZIS to focus on fixing the game getting rid of bots fixing broken crap rather than trying to make everyone happy. Which they won't.

Lord_Invel

@Airyus Please I am sorry if my words were obscure. I in no way think that mag sorc should be nerfed for the sanity of the general populous lol. What I am saying is that mag sorc should be strong in mobility and kiting not spamming shields and camping mines like a dog chained to his doghouse. I simply mentioned as well that a lot of top tier players complain about mag sorc as well not just the general eso populous.

Publius_Scipio

I know people here get offended easily sometimes since they think their ESO character is their child or a representation of their genitalia, but just from my time in Cyrodiil, random encounters, videos, etc. I haven't seen Sypher, German, Xvenex, BenzyBoy, etc, etc. Perform like Iryalia. Even that guy with the weird personality Quivers Are Moriarty is no Iryalia.

So assuming all the names I mentioned are basically at the same skill level and ceiling ESO currently allows, you have to take into account the build itself. Nothing with that suggests to you magicka sorc can be way off the charts?

The wild card for me is Tamerlin. He's been around forever. His name is basically Tamriel. And I have never witnessed him really go all out in person in a duel for example. So I don't know what his sorc is truly capable of.

Lord_Invel

@DHale I am not only speaking in terms of dueling as this game isn't balanced towards competitive dueling AT ALL. However I don't rule it out. I still think in terms of 1v1 combat it does reveal some truths to be told about some classes like in stam dks. The stamina dk has been overpowered for a number of patches now take a look at xinthisis post on tanks that can dps lol that is just one example. However to stick to the topic of mag sorcs. I can say with confidence that 1vxing is not a problem with mag sorc I can 1vx a lot in a given night. I have also been known to have been chased from brk to brindle several times by an ep raid group. But what I want from the class is dependable mobility. I want to be able streak turn around burst , streak turn around burst. Not streak into a corner, run out of magicka for streaking like 4 times to get to the corner, stack mines and spamm shields and pray to Sheogorath to save me from the madness of 20 man zergs.

Lord_Invel

@Publius_Scipio honestly ur comments just seem to be an advertisement of one player vs other, and has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I personally don't care if u have a shrine of iralia in ur closet. But I can tell u this that iralia has been beaten by xevenex and has never beaten him when he still played. Iralia has lost to german on his sorc, he has lost to kena on his sorc, he has lost to a variety of other players as well. Duels don't matter to me man. Iralia is a great top tier player but .... I don't care cause right now the discussion is about magicka sorc being reworked not ur fixation on iralia thanks.

Publius_Scipio

You obviously missed my whole point about shields then and that when taking players with similar "pro" skills into account a certain magicka sorc build wins. I don't care if Iryalia wins or loses. I care that a down in his luck fart sandwich eating stam NB really has very little chance just by function of the game in a duel.

And I have no shrines. But I have an American flag flying. If you needed to know about closets shrines and whatever else!

Lord_Invel

@Publius_Scipio lol sorry if I missed ur point I read the part of shields... but ur comments seemed to be ur fixation and amazement that there is no other mag sorc like iralia that u have ever seen.... that is either hinting that his build is op compared to every other mag sorc he has ever dueled.... which has no relevance to the subject matter at hand that's all I was saying lol. I hope I didn't sound like a *** I just say things in sarcastic tones IRL as well

Publius_Scipio

It absolutely has relevance to the subject matter for me. If you take people of the same skill and one build is just running through the others then you leave the realm of skill and enter the realm of what ESO allows magicka sorc to do currently.

But like I said, every class can be "op". But I've seen much more effort required to take down magicka sorcs compared to pretty much any of the other classes right now. Sure there are perma block tanks, but their DPS isn't scaring anyone. Magicka sorcs are incinerating other players right now with the burst potential.

Lord_Invel

@Publius_Scipio Yes I absolutely agree with u that mag sorc burst is really good and I believe it should remain the same cause it is quit effective. The thing that I believe makes it so hard to take down a mag sorc is not their burst potential however it is the fact that they have Uncritable shields and can camp mines. I say sorc burst should stay relatively high but zos should nerf shields and mines and zos should buff the living hell out of streak and ball of lightning.

Publius_Scipio

Well yeah that's my whole point. Shields that can't be crit and sorc builds that can basically have shields up constantly. Then the sorc lights you up.

Wtf is a NB going to do against a mega meta magicka sorc in a duel?

Brrrofski

The destro staff chance was huge. Straight up 8% damage for sorc exclusively pretty much. In PvP they are the only ones that benefit. Mageblade (lol, what are those) doesn't usually slot a destro skill, Templars do for the ult but sweeps doesn't get buffed by a flame staff anyway.

Sorcs will need addressing if the heavy armor meta goes. They already are in a good spot with most people in heavy. Put more people in light/medium and they'll be killing people way too easily.

HoloYoitsu

OP, the only ppl that complain about mines are raw potatoes.

Why should damage shields be crittable when they have 0 resists? What is your fixation with shields when they simply do not scale as you add more players - unlike block/dodge.

Buffing crit surge to offset shield nerfs is a nonstarter. Tying main healing to doing dmg doesn't work: just look at how dead in the water mag DK was for a year when Burning Embers was their main heal.

Unnerfing Bolt Escape is nice and all, but that will never happen. The forum warriors whined and whined incessantly for 2 whole years about sorcs blinking around. It wasn't until BE was nerfed into the ground that the whiners took up the new cry about shields as their main contention.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Well yeah that's my whole point. Shields that can't be crit and sorc builds that can basically have shields up constantly. Then the sorc lights you up.

Wtf is a NB going to do against a mega meta magicka sorc in a duel?

Pls go watch some competent NBs fight first, or at least put it in proper Pubes RP format if you're gona claim that.

If only someone were willing to give a talk on @NightbladeMechanics

Lord_Invel

@HoloYoitsu I feel like u did not read my post then because I clearly said that if damage shields become critable like I said they should be then they should be given armor resistances and crit resistances based off of the armor type and trait that u have on lol. Plus it is relatively easy for a sorc to build into max magicka or full damage and not feel any consequence or sacrifice anything within their build setup such as sustain and lack of damge or mitigation. Same goes for other classes but I made this post to focus on my favorite class first lol.

Subversus

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

OP, the only ppl that complain about mines are raw potatoes.

Why should damage shields be crittable when they have 0 resists? What is your fixation with shields when they simply do not scale as you add more players - unlike block/dodge.

Buffing crit surge to offset shield nerfs is a nonstarter. Tying main healing to doing dmg doesn't work: just look at how dead in the water mag DK was for a year when Burning Embers was their main heal.

Unnerfing Bolt Escape is nice and all, but that will never happen. The forum warriors whined and whined incessantly for 2 whole years about sorcs blinking around. It wasn't until BE was nerfed into the ground that the whiners took up the new cry about shields as their main contention.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Well yeah that's my whole point. Shields that can't be crit and sorc builds that can basically have shields up constantly. Then the sorc lights you up.

Wtf is a NB going to do against a mega meta magicka sorc in a duel?

Pls go watch some competent NBs fight first, or at least put it in proper Pubes RP format if you're gona claim that.

If only someone were willing to give a talk on @NightbladeMechanics

Lmfao rip OP

Lord_Invel

@Publius_Scipio oh and magblades and stamblades are really good at pressuring a mag sorc just sayin lol. There are many great nightblades that I and every other mag sorc wont beat simply due to heavy armor and magblade burst/defensive mechanics. However that is an entirely different discussion and can be addressed in another forum post in the future.

HoloYoitsu

Lord_Invel wrote: »

@HoloYoitsu I feel like u did not read my post then because I clearly said that if damage shields become critable like I said they should be then they should be given armor resistances and crit resistances based off of the armor type and trait that u have on lol. Plus it is relatively easy for a sorc to build into max magicka or full damage and not feel any consequence or sacrifice anything within their build setup such as sustain and lack of damge or mitigation. Same goes for other classes but I made this post to focus on my favorite class first lol.

So......shields having the 11k resist of light armor which gets over penetrated down to 0 by most dps builds anyways (resulting in zero change from the current dmg numbers) is somehow compensation for taking crit dmg now?

You can't expect me to take you seriously as a sorc when you tell me that sorcs don't have to build for sustain. As a sorc, with bolt escape cost penalty and shields that only last 6 seconds which need to be constantly spammed, you absolutely do have to build for sustain, running sets like seducer/lich/amberplasm. If we want to start talking about builds running around w/ low regen why don't we talk about mag DK that works fine w/ just 1k regen?

Can we just take a minute and appreciate the multiple systems in place that work against shields?

• Shields only last 6 seconds now.
• Shield benefits do not scale up as dmg scales up.
• There is a whole CP perk for increased dmg to shields.
• There is set to specifically counter shields.

mafli1

Shields:
Every class can use shields (resto and light armor skills). Having more than two shields up at the same time during a fight is nearly impossible due the duration and the inc dmg. Every dps from an experianced DD is higher then one shield of a sorc.
While casting shields you are unable to do serious damage or get away otherwise.

Mines:
range fighters want to avoid close combat / melee fighers want to avoid range fights...
It is really easy to get in your oponents face if you are a melee fighter and stay there. cap close, using traps, talons, fossilize...
Mag Sorcs create distance with mines. what else do they have? The buged streak that can easely be cap closed with a moiety of costs...?!

I dont see the problem. Create a build and use skills to counter shield stacker or mine camper if they annoys you. it is clear that high crit and penetration builds doesnt work on shield users, thats part of the diversity in eso

Hexys

The only changes sorcerer need is making curse not stack on an enemy. Another change is to a set that makes sorcerer just to strong which is pirate skeleton.