Morrowind...and ESO+

zaria

AManNamedJain wrote: »

The only point that should matter in this thread is that ESO+ members get free access to DLC. Yes, other games charge for xpacs, and yes, most ESO+ members mainly use it for the craft bag. But the point of contention here is that ZOS has sold a product to us, and is now saying that the same product is now somehow different. If Morrowind comes with ESO as a literal CORE then how does it not fall under the category of DLC?
If i had known that i would fall out of eligibility to access *all* future DLC then i would have probably bought the each of the expansions along the way. Now I sitting here, having spent real money on the wrong product, like a stooge.

Crafting bag is the main bonus for me, it let me play without thinking much about inventory, auto loot is very convenient.
Just stuff set who look decent in bank, look up sets and if worthless deconstruct else sell, much more playtime.
Free dlc is an bonus so is the crowns even if they tend to pile up.
Had been nice if Morrowind was free but no big issue.

SonofThunder

BoloBoffin wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

lmao why do ESO+ members who pay a few bucks a month think they're entitled to the world?

Get in line and pay the $40 for the expansion

Because that's how the sub was sold to us as?

This.

I remember the good ol days at launch when it was a subscription game and we were promised a steady stream of new content as a part of the subscription.

Then... barely any new content.
Then... switching to F2P and telling us "oh but it's B2P and that's totally different"
Now... "oh this is an expansion pack and that's totally different"

H0enir

Well, 60 Euros for the digital basic version.

An "expansion" with the price of a full game...

Subs should at least get some % discount (not 5%, 10-15 would be reasonable, win-win situation).

Guess i will be back 4 months after release, when the price is right for an expansion.

Sovaso

C'mon, close this post already!

old_mufasa

Sovaso wrote: »

C'mon, close this post already!

Why?

Its a legitimate issue and 36 pages of people commenting on it and no real response to it from the Devs keeps its a issue..

Chronicburn

old_mufasa wrote: »

Sovaso wrote: »

C'mon, close this post already!

Why?

Its a legitimate issue and 36 pages of people commenting on it and no real response to it from the Devs keeps its a issue..

Ha yeah right, but say something slightly politically incorrect and they will respond in under 10 minutes with a /closed thread and a friendly reminder about being nice in your inbox lol

They read all this stuff but only respond if it suits them

Duragon_Darko

Sorry, but as an MMO player since Ultima online, I'm 43 years old now and have ZERO issue with this. It's not a stupid DLC that we can burn through in 4 hours (see Thieves Guild, Brotherhood, Orcinium). It an entirely new expansion.... and like ALL other MMO's, you are required to purchase it.

If you're really this bent out of shape on the extra cost you shouldn't be playing on a subscription anyway.

If you think the subscription is too expensive, then you should double think about not spending 300 bucks on a video game system or 700 on a PC, and focusing on your mortgage (or rent for some) because you're obviously broke as ***.

old_mufasa

Duragon_Darko wrote: »

Sorry, but as an MMO player since Ultima online, I'm 43 years old now and have ZERO issue with this. It's not a stupid DLC that we can burn through in 4 hours (see Thieves Guild, Brotherhood, Orcinium). It an entirely new expansion.... and like ALL other MMO's, you are required to purchase it.

If you're really this bent out of shape on the extra cost you shouldn't be playing on a subscription anyway.

If you think the subscription is too expensive, then you should double think about not spending 300 bucks on a video game system or 700 on a PC, and focusing on your mortgage (or rent for some) because you're obviously broke as ***.

And you just don't grasp the issue.. its not the cost.. its the bait and switch..

That's what people are pissed about..

They said ALL DLC and Expansions would be included with the sub, then changed the wording for this to a chapter to say why it needs to be paid for.

They said that there would be paid DLC content every 12 weeks that the sub would pay for... its going to almost a year with out any new paid DLC and on top of that its not included in the sub that we have been paying on for said DLC instead they want to charge us more...

So maybe instead of posting on a issue that we are not even talking about aka "the cost" maybe you should of educated yourself on why people were upset with the bait and switch to the eso plus benefits.... because the cost of the expansion was not the issue.

nimander99

bearclawmcbainb16_ESO wrote: »

NovaShadow wrote: »

I'll just leave this here:



Notice where it says ALL downloadable content.

(http://gamerlogic.nickchevalier.com/news/elder-scrolls-online-drops-subscription-console-release-date-announced/)

The fact that they've since changed it to crown store only DLC's is simply a technicality to allow them to call future content 'expansions' and exclude them from the crown store so they can charge extra money.

I just don't understand how so many people are caught up in the hype and are overlooking it.

This^^

Personally, I'm am hyped about Morrowind, I believe they are pulling this because they know for a fact that Morrowind is going to blow our minds. So they are making use of nostalgia, an Island everyone wants to go back too and its forwarding the game storyline, something none of the DLC's did with the exception of a hint at the end of Orsinium.

I will reserve judgment, right now it does seem like dirty trick, but if this Chapter is something very amazing... Like end game PVE Molag Bal amazing then it will be worth the money. And we will get one of this huge content and storyline dumps per year, I'm pleased with that.

So to sum up, we shall see if this is just a scuzzy trick or if Morrowind is really worth changing the tacit agreement that ZeniMax had with the community.

But no one should be surprised, they have made business model changes on us several times now and added things they said would never be added. If you are surprised ny this then you haven't been paying attention.

Duragon_Darko

@old_mufasa

... not a bait and switch. ZOS has never said expansions were included. Only DLC content. I've never seen them confirm to an expansion being included, it's never typed anywhere, only future DLC content.

... OP is LITERALLY complaining that after 2 years of paying for a sub, he still has to shell out more cash to purchase it. That pretty much means it's about money. Then, in bold, types that ZOS has said all future DLC's will be included.... then makes the assumption that all DLC's actually include expansions, which is false of course.

... OP then goes on about how it's word trickery and is going to leave.

... then, every third post is about shelling out more money.... and at some point or another, or maybe even a different thread, one person even complains that the expansion is too expensive.

.... the entire premise behind the thread is about money. So please, let me "educate" myself more and dive into the entire thread again on this laughable "bait and switch" theory, on how us subscribers "only" get Orcinium, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Homestead, all for free with a craft bag that actually allows us to be master crafters without 800 mules all during a year where ZOS actually looked at the game itself and said "wow, know what, the players are right, let's go with One Tamriel" and ALL THE WAY THROUGH getting an additional 1500 crowns each month for even EXTRA stuff.

You're right, there is a bait and switch. It's the bait that ZOS would get mature and competent players and instead got switched to immature whiners who want everything for free or feel entitled for their "massive" deposit of $180 a year.

Thanks though. Appreciate the feedback.

MaxwellC

The issue in my opinion still stands that you cannot use crowns that you get from ESO+ or have bought to pay for the expansion. I'm still curious what the 4th free dlc we will receive as ESO+ subs is/will be because there hasn't been any word other than morrowind.

Ep1kMalware

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Am I right in saying, that the ESO+ players will still get everything - just not the collection edition addons like the bear, horse, gear, etc....

£40.00 for the expansion - after 2 years of ESO Plus Membership.

Edit1: YOU CAN NOT BUY THIS EXPANSION WITH CROWNS!!!! ONLY CASH.

Edit2: Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror
You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective (Disclaimer - not a lawyer)

Edit3: @ZOS_GinaBruno Has stated there will be an update for ESO+ Subscribers tomorrow. We shall see.


That's it, I'm done. Have fun folks but I'm certainly not paying for this.

It better be DAMN good because if cash I spent subscribing for this content, and the cashnI spent to buy crowns (the actual in-game currency you are pidgeonholed to use) to buy said content aren't good enough then you by definition scammed us.

Ep1kMalware

Erasure wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

An ESO Plus membership will not grant you access to The Elder Scroll Online: Morrowind content. As this is an entirely new Chapter of ESO, you'll need to purchase one of the five editions. If you already own ESO, though, you can purchase the Morrowind Upgrade or the Morrowind Collector's Edition Upgrade directly from online stores (The Elder Scrolls Online Store, Steam Store, Xbox Store, or PlayStation Store).

Tie a trial to it, tie a highly-anticipated zone to it, tie battlegrounds to it, and force everyone to buck up.

RP'ers, PvE'ers, PvP'ers all caught in the gambit.

Well played.

If the trials don't drop substantially better bis gear I won't even look at it at this point

Sigma957

This is straight from the store

ESO Plus™ is our premium membership service. Sign up now to receive in-game benefits that let you get the most out of your journeys in Tamriel. Members receive increased experience, faster crafting progression and bonus gold, along with access to all DLC Game Packs available in the Crown Store./

It's in simple writing and since Morrowind is not in the crown store therefore we pay.

ThoraxtheDark

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Seems absurd to not give access to people with a sub. If they don't, that would mean 3 straight quarters where the people with subs did not get access to a new paid DLC. That would basically mean that people are just paying for a crafting bag. $15 * 9 months for a crafting bag. $135 in less than a year for a crafting bag.

yep, you basically are paying for a craft bag.. anddddd thats how they get you.

Cherryblossom

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

IF Morrowind is a true expansion, what is everyone upset for?

15 bucks a month gets you some decent perks and keeps the game healthy.

A legit expansion has traditionally always cost real money or is ESO everyone's first MMO? This is honestly the first MMO I have seen anyone think their 15 bucks a month nets them a free expansion.

As long as Morrowind is a true expansion with loads to do and explore - a box cost is legit.

@WalkingLegacy

I totally agree, however that is not what seems to be on offer.
I've cancelled my ESO+ and have purchased morrowind, once I have seen it, I'll determine if it's worth the extra on top of the SUB. If not I'll buy what I want À la carte.

Diesosoon

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective



(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

It is an expansion, not a DLC. Expansion is the same as a sequel but connecting the 2 games.

JasonSilverSpring

Diesosoon wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective



(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

It is an expansion, not a DLC. Expansion is the same as a sequel but connecting the 2 games.

They have also stated that future DLC will not be gated behind Morrowind. So anyone with ESO+ will continue to get access to all DLCs available in the crown store.

Cherryblossom

Duragon_Darko wrote: »

@old_mufasa

... not a bait and switch. ZOS has never said expansions were included. Only DLC content. I've never seen them confirm to an expansion being included, it's never typed anywhere, only future DLC content.

... OP is LITERALLY complaining that after 2 years of paying for a sub, he still has to shell out more cash to purchase it. That pretty much means it's about money. Then, in bold, types that ZOS has said all future DLC's will be included.... then makes the assumption that all DLC's actually include expansions, which is false of course.

... OP then goes on about how it's word trickery and is going to leave.

... then, every third post is about shelling out more money.... and at some point or another, or maybe even a different thread, one person even complains that the expansion is too expensive.

.... the entire premise behind the thread is about money. So please, let me "educate" myself more and dive into the entire thread again on this laughable "bait and switch" theory, on how us subscribers "only" get Orcinium, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Homestead, all for free with a craft bag that actually allows us to be master crafters without 800 mules all during a year where ZOS actually looked at the game itself and said "wow, know what, the players are right, let's go with One Tamriel" and ALL THE WAY THROUGH getting an additional 1500 crowns each month for even EXTRA stuff.

You're right, there is a bait and switch. It's the bait that ZOS would get mature and competent players and instead got switched to immature whiners who want everything for free or feel entitled for their "massive" deposit of $180 a year.

Thanks though. Appreciate the feedback.

@Duragon_Darko

A fool and his money are soon parted.

You mention Orsinium which is a DLC, you do know that Morrowind is only a few hour more of game play? This appears to be nothing more than ZOS monetising an ordinary DLC.

I was quite happy when they added the crafting bags to ESO+ it gave some mean to it, as lets face it, you get very little else, now you get even less!

Cherryblossom

Sigma957 wrote: »

This is straight from the store

ESO Plus™ is our premium membership service. Sign up now to receive in-game benefits that let you get the most out of your journeys in Tamriel. Members receive increased experience, faster crafting progression and bonus gold, along with access to all DLC Game Packs available in the Crown Store./

It's in simple writing and since Morrowind is not in the crown store therefore we pay.

@Sigma957
@Diesosoon
However this is what we were all sold

Chilly-McFreeze

While I tend to agree that ESO+ needs some revamp I can't wrap my head around "only a few hours more."

AFAIK Orsinium was advertised with 20h gameplay. Morrowind with 30. That's 50% more. It's one thing to say that's 30 hours are not enough but it's false to say it's comparable to Orsinium.

Cherryblossom

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

While I tend to agree that ESO+ needs some revamp I can't wrap my head around "only a few hours more."

AFAIK Orsinium was advertised with 20h gameplay. Morrowind with 30. That's 50% more. It's one thing to say that's 30 hours are not enough but it's false to say it's comparable to Orsinium.

@Chilly-McFreeze
I suppose this will depend on how they calculated the time! How much of this is the new Tutorial, or Arenas?
As I've said a few times, I'll hold my judgement until I see the new zone, if you look at the map in game you will be able to see where morrowind will be and then compare size with Wrothgar, there is very little difference in size!

Chilly-McFreeze

Right, we can't judge before we get our hands on Morrowind. But that being said one should not forget that just because a Zone appears small on the world map it holds no information if that is comparable to the real zone map and how much content is pressed inside the zone one cannot see from the map. Mind big delves you get ported to, they won't increase the map size at all.

stephbay123

I sub and I don't mind - even though all I really benefit from now is a craft bag.

I don't think I will be paying extra for this expansion, chapter, DLC whatever. It is a play on words by zos and a way for zos to be guaranteed more money. I have thousands of crowns available, at least I should be able to use them for the expansion if access is not automatic.

The only reason I would want this would be for battlegrounds but I will hold off until folk mention if there is issue with game play first.

daedalusAI

ThoraxtheDark wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Seems absurd to not give access to people with a sub. If they don't, that would mean 3 straight quarters where the people with subs did not get access to a new paid DLC. That would basically mean that people are just paying for a crafting bag. $15 * 9 months for a crafting bag. $135 in less than a year for a crafting bag.

yep, you basically are paying for a craft bag.. anddddd thats how they get you.

I'm still pondering why people are throwing money at ZOS for a crafting bag which could be done just fine using your bank and/or multiple characters as mules.

And considering the bigger picture: the current game with all its issues and the behavior(or non-existent behavior) of ZOS employees for me is only worth the 24€ I paid for the gold edition - and not a single dime more.

The whole thing about naming morrowind DLC or expansion is just an arbitrary technicality to force all the willing lambs who paid a monthly fee for a crafting bag and empty promises to pay again.

I'm not familiar with the english law which is applicable in this case - but their advertised perks of ESO+ should provide current subs with a target for potential legal actions.

Edit: ZOS uses the word chapter and avoids the terms DLC and expansion. If you consider that SW:TOR only releases new content called chapters which are only accessible if you are a sub the wording used is shady at best.

Nermy

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

An ESO Plus membership will not grant you access to The Elder Scroll Online: Morrowind content. As this is an entirely new Chapter of ESO, you'll need to purchase one of the five editions. If you already own ESO, though, you can purchase the Morrowind Upgrade or the Morrowind Collector's Edition Upgrade directly from online stores (The Elder Scrolls Online Store, Steam Store, Xbox Store, or PlayStation Store).

Okay... I've been expecting this
But... we were promised 4 DLC (or "major updates") / year ... are we still getting a DLC or a major update in Q2/2017, separate from "Morrowind" and included with ESO+ or purchasable in crowns - or even free, like Homestead ?

Good questions. We'll be getting into this more tomorrow - stay tuned for an article on our website that should give some insight.

Was there ever an article from ZoS on this?

stephbay123

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThoraxtheDark wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Seems absurd to not give access to people with a sub. If they don't, that would mean 3 straight quarters where the people with subs did not get access to a new paid DLC. That would basically mean that people are just paying for a crafting bag. $15 * 9 months for a crafting bag. $135 in less than a year for a crafting bag.

yep, you basically are paying for a craft bag.. anddddd thats how they get you.

I'm still pondering why people are throwing money at ZOS for a crafting bag which could be done just fine using your bank and/or multiple characters as mules.

And considering the bigger picture: the current game with all its issues and the behavior(or non-existent behavior) of ZOS employees for me is only worth the 24€ I paid for the gold edition - and not a single dime more.

The whole thing about naming morrowind DLC or expansion is just an arbitrary technicality to force all the willing lambs who paid a monthly fee for a crafting bag and empty promises to pay again.

I'm not familiar with the english law which is applicable in this case - but their advertised perks of ESO+ should provide current subs with a target for potential legal actions.

Edit: ZOS uses the word chapter and avoids the terms DLC and expansion. If you consider that SW:TOR only releases new content called chapters which are only accessible if you are a sub the wording used is shady at best.

Good point regarding craft bags- I am going to make a few more characters, I have millions of gold so I will increase their bank spaces and just use them for items in my craft bag. I do not farm much now just mainly PVP so it wont be an issue and the crowns I have I can purchase the most important DLC's. Zos have been very unfair on this 'chapter' nonsense. I will be cancelling my sub and will only purchase other extras, dlc's, expansions, chapters when I want. I always hoped supporting the game would mean they would put money in to improving servers for pvp but that's not the case- they only use the money to make other things that they want to force their customers to buy on top of a monthly sub. not good

LordGavus

Regarding the crafting bags, the $15 sub is not just access to the crafting bag.
You also get 1500 crowns. 1500 crowns would cost me $15 alone, so I'm basically getting the bag free with my crowns.

Anyway, I'll throw my comment on the pile.
I have no problem with the distinction between chapter and DLC. If what we've been told is true, we are getting the largest new zone to date, new class, new trial and battlegrounds.
I'm happy to pay extra for a larger chuck of content.

The biggest issue I see people bring up is the wording of eso+. Stating that all DLC content was included, now changed to crown store DLC only.

I can see how this will annoy some people, but 5 months notice has been given before ESO:MW letting subscribers know of the change. This is pretty generous heads up.

Plenty of time to decide if the value is there for you or not.

esotoon

Nermy wrote: »

Good questions. We'll be getting into this more tomorrow - stay tuned for an article on our website that should give some insight.

Was there ever an article from ZoS on this?

@Nermy - This was the article:

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

Then this thread was started 3 days later in the Crown Store & ESO Plus section of the forum:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318400/ideas-for-eso-plus/p1

t3hdubzy

Has ZOS ever thought "hey we have a game plan for how we do business... lets share that with out customer base upfront and be transparent?"

Unless there is some big push to drive sales and money and decisions are being made on a whim, they probably have a 2 to 5 year plan. If not, then I see the problem.