Morrowind...and ESO+

rfennell_ESO

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

You specifically mention, in the ESO+ Purchase page, that I will receive ALL Future DLC Content. How will I be receiving ALL of this future DLC Content, when it's locked behind a paywall being Morrowind. You do not exclude additional content via expansions - so legally - I think you have to provide the Morrowind access from a DLC perspective



(Disclaimer - not a lawyer - not have I checked these "new" Additional Requirements that seems to be a recent addition....)

All they have to do is say it's a new chapter and not a dlc.

Ethyarion wrote: »

Zimnel wrote: »

To everyone complaining about paying for the expansion, I have an only question:
Did Blizzard gave for free any of their expansions just because "people pays every month to play"? No.

Eso has at this time one of the best premium subs, and I've been in some games that ask your blood to be in touch with endgame. Go ask any Skyforge player how much did they pay in order to raid. They would laugh at a 40 dollar complain.

Morrowind won't be a Dlc, they said it's a big expansion. It's not like I'm a Zos fanboy or something, it's the fact the complain seems to me out of place or too big compared with what they ask for it. 40 usd is what you pay for two costumes in other games, for a single costume set in other places, for a "pack" containing rng boxes... C'mon XD

Blizzard (by which you mean WoW) expansions are what I expect the meaning to be. Several zones, new races or classes, a number of dungeons and raids. Morrowind is significantly less content than most of their competitors release in a expansion but costs the same. This seems slightly bigger than Orsinum but is being sold as an expansion. That's what I believe many are annoyed about.

edited :Typos

Here is the thing about comparing it to blizzard expansions, or more accurately "things".

Most of the new zones added in a blizzard expansion are not very large and have very little relevance past having to level through them (and in many cases you usually can skip at least one of them). They are really just one big zone (hence the no zoning required in a new "continent" of wow) that they now disable flying in (so you don't realize how small they really are) until after you have quested through them "on foot". Overall it's a wash... or pretty much about the same.

New class is much like the blizzard model of adding a new class or race to an expansion. It could be argued that since a class in eso is more like 3-4 wow classes it's a bigger deal to add a new class.

Battlegrounds being a new part of a paid expansion is also a bit different than what wow offers (they included BGs at the onset for free, but really have never had a true pvp zone like cyrondil). Arenas were added for free during their first expansion. With every expansion since the wrath of the lich king they tried adding a relevant pvp zone you could compare to cyrondil, but cyrondil is actually very hard to compare with as it's really large and always relevant.

On the pve front it's much less than wow offers at first glance. But if you actually look at how wow does their expansion, they don't release anything but one raid at the onset and hit you with the storyline continuance as sub based dlcs. Yes there will be less "dungeons" added (in eso terms you could equate the new delves to wow dungeons, could). But, for the most part... the new and additional dungeons in wow are usually brief and nothing to remember... they are queued grindfests for new gear.

The only thing I would put a complaint in about is that no additions or changes being made to cyrondil is a major downside to an expansion. That alone would make it equal to a wow expansion. I agree it's overall a little bit less, but not overly so.

Lastly, compare what the rest of the year (2 more dlc type releases) offers and at least into the next year as well. Because that's how long the wow expansion takes to actually offer everything it's going to offer. The going rate on wow expansion is about 2 years and it takes about 1 1/2 years for the full expansion's raids to be released. It's not easy making apples to apples comparisons, but I think keeping in mind the plethora of content for pve that a wow expansion brings is not immediate... it's a handful of new zones that are meaningless, a handful of new dungeons which are also meaningless and then 3-4 raids over a 2 year period as content.

P.S. Zos really should have included something new in Cyrondil.

Marktoneth3

Eso plus only access to dlc that on crows store

old_mufasa

The original advertisement said ALL DLC CONTENT.. chapters, expansions anything you download to the game is downloadable content and was advertised that if you paid for ESO plus that you would get them.

They then went back with no notice and changed it to only DLC in the crown store.. but that is not what it was advertised at the start.. and is the definition of bait and switch.

Hawco10

It's not an expansion. It's "an entirely new chapter" just like thieves guild, dark brotherhood etc........
So now we have moved from DLC to expansion to entirely new chapter.
I'm guessing the next new alternative factual will be-Saga

Elsonso

Hawco10 wrote: »

It's not an expansion. It's "an entirely new chapter" just like thieves guild, dark brotherhood etc........
So now we have moved from DLC to expansion to entirely new chapter.
I'm guessing the next new alternative factual will be-Saga

I guess I don't think of Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood to be "Chapters". I know a lot of people barely considered them to be "DLC", when they came out. They are pretty small, in terms of content and contribution to the game. Orsinium could be considered to be a "Chapter" in the sense that it had a large world, new world boss concept, self-contained quest line, and other new content. I would like to think that, if Orsinium could be considered a "Chapter", it would be a "small Chapter". Vvardenfell needs to be a real "Chapter" and start with a "Wrothgar", then take it to the next level. Even then, people will consider it a waste of money.

As for not calling it an "expansion", I do agree with them. Morrowind does not "expand" that game in the sense that I am used to. I am used to them adding to the end of the game, and Morrowind definitely does not do that.

Beaveri

Now I had to cancel my ESO+ membership. Sorry Zeni, it is not giving much value anymore....

Iselin

Beaveri wrote: »

Now I had to cancel my ESO+ membership. Sorry Zeni, it is not giving much value anymore....

It's still giving good value although clearly not as much as before, but I cancelled mine too. Why? Because I detest marketing spin that tries to sell black as white.

It's a monetization model change: be up front and call things what they are.

Beaveri

Iselin wrote: »

Beaveri wrote: »

Now I had to cancel my ESO+ membership. Sorry Zeni, it is not giving much value anymore....

It's still giving good value although clearly not as much as before, but I cancelled mine too. Why? Because I detest marketing spin that tries to sell black as white.

It's a monetization model change: be up front and call things what they are.

I fully agree. However the main thing I am going to miss is the crafting bag.

jircris11

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

An ESO Plus membership will not grant you access to The Elder Scroll Online: Morrowind content. As this is an entirely new Chapter of ESO, you'll need to purchase one of the five editions. If you already own ESO, though, you can purchase the Morrowind Upgrade or the Morrowind Collector's Edition Upgrade directly from online stores (The Elder Scrolls Online Store, Steam Store, Xbox Store, or PlayStation Store).

How will that work? So someone with, say, the Gold Edition, can play the game, encounter Wardens, but not have access to Wardens themselves?

it will work like GW2 and rev. if you do not own heart of thorn you cant access the class but you can run in to them.

old_mufasa

Beaveri wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Beaveri wrote: »

Now I had to cancel my ESO+ membership. Sorry Zeni, it is not giving much value anymore....

It's still giving good value although clearly not as much as before, but I cancelled mine too. Why? Because I detest marketing spin that tries to sell black as white.

It's a monetization model change: be up front and call things what they are.

I fully agree. However the main thing I am going to miss is the crafting bag.

Agreed but its not worth 180 a year heh

Troneon

old_mufasa wrote: »

The original advertisement said ALL DLC CONTENT.. chapters, expansions anything you download to the game is downloadable content and was advertised that if you paid for ESO plus that you would get them.

They then went back with no notice and changed it to only DLC in the crown store.. but that is not what it was advertised at the start.. and is the definition of bait and switch.

^^

josefcifkaeb17_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

An ESO Plus membership will not grant you access to The Elder Scroll Online: Morrowind content. As this is an entirely new Chapter of ESO, you'll need to purchase one of the five editions. If you already own ESO, though, you can purchase the Morrowind Upgrade or the Morrowind Collector's Edition Upgrade directly from online stores (The Elder Scrolls Online Store, Steam Store, Xbox Store, or PlayStation Store).

ESO9+ = Access to all DLC Game Packs available in the Crown Store as long as ESO Plus™ membership is current.

Call it expansion, chapter, or third leg, it's still by it's very definition a DLC (Downloadable content).

So what you did is, you put that "available in the Crown Store" part there so you could use that third leg to enter players behind, enjoy the ride, and have the players pay for it. I'll try that with the next female companion I meet, somehow I think her "shepherd" will quickly explain it to me though, just as the players should explain it to you. And by you I mean whoever came up with this crap at ZOS.

ralvdlindenpeb18_ESO

I think they need to tell the players more about morrowind because now it just looks like a dlc when zos is talking about it like its a total difrent game but what we see is just a new quest area and a update to pvp ... and i am sick of all the hate to zos but for the love of god tell us something more SOMETHING that makes us feel this is not a dlc but a new.."NEW" part of eso
And not a simple dlc like dark brotherhood
And the thieves guild (they were great but they are dlc so morrowind should be freaking amazing...right zos.?)

gamesandmoreb16_ESO

I am just learning the game, but I was considering becoming an ESO Plus member, this has made me decide against it.

Smells very much like bait and switch to me, and if this is general practice around here, then I'm out before I get in too far.

Charging a monthly fee AND charging for additional content AND having a cash shop (a very expensive one) that has all the cool armor/dyes/fun fluff stuff locked behind it's doors...

This company is holding out their hand while reaching around for your wallet.

exeeter702

God you people are ridiculous.....

Troneon

exeeter702 wrote: »

God you people are ridiculous.....

Personally I think the people who defend ZOS are ridiculous...

Spidersick

AzuraKin wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

It all depends, did you agree to allow them to make changes at any time for any reason like you did when you agreed to the TOS before you were allowed to play ESO?!?

They can make whatever changes they like. However that doesn't make it right or mean the customer has no right to feel aggrieved by it. And in some countries, due to consumer laws, taking money and not providing the promised services for that money is...shall we say, frowned upon. No matter what the T&C's might say.

well, there is this thing that rights and laws of nations generally do not apply to the internet, this is why american companies, run by americans have deleted, censored, posts and banned accounts for arbitrary reasons against american companies, all of which is a violation of the freedom of speech clause. you have no rights on the internet except what the company whose site you are using grants to you.

Freedom of speech has nothing to do with a forum hosted by a company. I am not sure if you are from the USA, but in the USA freedom of speech has no bearing on this, internet or not.

actually the constitution applies to all. fed gov, state gov, local gov, individual citizens, corporate entitiies.

It is so interesting seeing people talking about what they don't understand. It is like me talking about upcoming nano-technology to a robotics engineer graduated from MIT.

You don't have Freedom of Speech claim against a citizen or a corporate entities. You can only exercise your first amendment rights against the government (federal, state, municipal). While the constitution "applies to all", Freedom of Speech is only actionable if the violator is the government.

Wifeaggro13

GawdSB wrote: »

$15 a month for a crafting bag.

This right here. this is how ZOS kept the player who plays the whole game does the group content and crafting. If you are going to play the game in its entirety you needed the bag, and no gear restriction when they tried that. To all the casual Barbie doll players that dont actually play the game just roll a round on alts questing, you do not need the sub just continue to buy the crappy solo questing DLC's. but those that came to play a MMO .... You need a sub never in my wildest dreams did i consider sub was getting me the content for free. i could have spent 60 bucks if i just wanted to play the solo player RPG zos designed this game around. truthfully if i want to play a single player RPG ill go play the witche far better then ESO in that department. thats why i was mildly amused at the communities reaction to the expansion.

3 weeks ago all you ZOS boot lickers that have been heaping praise on ZOS for the solo player content with no game enrichment or group content. Were thrilled at the idea of a large land mass with more standard faceroll solo content.But now that you have to pay for it due to ZOS and their shady business model you want to have a witch burning lol. I can at least justify buying the expac because its not a 40 dollar poorly written single player RPG. It at least has a new class , trial and battle ground. It somewhat resembles a MMO expac albeit light on content and features its probably worth 25$ compared to what the competition provide for a pay for x pac.

DaveMoeDee

sevomd69 wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

But they should have had an idea, because ToS says they can change their services whenever they want, so if they had read the ToS they could have weighed the pros and cons of the 6 month sub and they would know that the discount they are getting for the 6 month sub comes with risks clearly stated in the ToS... not anyone else's problem that they failed to read the ToS...

So you buy the Morrowind Chapter. Only the advertised 12 man trial is only a 8 man trial. And the 30 hour content, turns out to be 10 hours. Would you a) be happy about it because after all the T&Cs say they can change anything at any time, and make no mention of the content they are delivering the 'chapter' pack. Or would you feel aggrieved that they told you there would be a 12 man trial, and they told you there would be 30 hours of content, and they also stated this on the web page you bought the DLC from, yet by using a clause in the DLC they didn't deliver on that content?

I wouldn't be happy about it, but I made the decision pre-order, knowing their ToS and history, so the only person that I could blame is myself... Like I said... you have the option to not pre-order and wait to see what exactly is in the new content, but if you choose to pre-order than its on you if they change their content not to your liking...

No, you could also blame ZOS for being dishonest. It is within the rights of a restaurant to make food that tastes horrible, but they will get horrible Yelp reviews.

You are also conflating false advertising with not being good. The risk of pre-ordering is that the game won't be good. If you pre-order ME:A and and find the story dumb and game buggy and awkward, it is your fault for pre-ordering. If you pre-order ME:A and get space invaders, that is now false advertising and it is the fault of the publisher for being deceptive.

As has been discussed in various threads, the EU does not let publishers get away with that kind of deceit.

DaveMoeDee

probablyafk wrote: »

lordrichter wrote:

As I have said before, ZOS needs to get this right. Not just in their mind, but in the mind of the players. They might shoot for average, to cut development costs, and use marketing spin to fill the gap. In their mind, this would be getting it right. Marketing hype is a poor filler, for me, and probably many of us.

Gold Coast was nice, but not as good as Hew's Bane, which was not as good as Wrothgar. Vvardenfell needs to be noticeably better than Wrothgar.

I agree with this ten times over. A paid for expansion is not a bad idea. In fact, as a subscriber, I think it's great. Money doesn't bother me but the amount of content does.

I hope they're just disorganised and there's an extra trial on top of the one announce, plus 3-4 dungeons coming, and Vvardenfell is huge and amazing (3 times Orsinium would be small but ok if the qualities there) and we get a whole slew of other smaller features and changes that will allow replay value. Without that all these people who are complaining are not going to shut up. They'll keep raging or they'll go away and the games gonna get lonely.

They really have to deliver. And putting a big, inaccessible mountain in the middle of a zone to pad it won't impress anyone.

It will be interesting to see how much accumulated content is needed to reach WOW expansion depth. Would a year's worth of updates be equal (1 expansion and 3 crown dlc)? Total cost of access would still be less for ESO subbers than playing WOW in that case. Based on Wikipedia, it seems WOW has an expansion every 2 years. That means that if you have ESO+ and get 2 expansions a year, the total cost to play ESO is more than WOW. ESO needs to make sure that 2 years of ESO downloadable content adds more value than a single WOW expansion.

It would also be nice if ZOS avoids any future bait-and-switch moves.

FlaviusVoyage

About crowns, did you guys noticed that in the last two showcases there is no mount? Just a desert lynx and a black cat (both pets). All the interesting mounts are locked within the crates (black mane lion, red wolf, lightning mounts, etc). The only way to get an interesting mount is to gamble with crown crates.

About housing: I finished my house yesterday, spent (purposefully) every crown I have. It is beautiful, kept coming in and out yesterday to admire it. Now, what can I do with it? Sit down in one of my magnificent chairs. That's it?? I cannot store my stuff in my fantastic chests, cannot showcase my laundered items on my neat desk, cannot even go to sleep in my gorgeous bed? I still love it, but what is the point of housing? Maybe show it off to friends?

FlaviusVoyage

I am just trying to understand which direction Zenimax is going with this game.

Balad

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

About crowns, did you guys noticed that in the last two showcases there is no mount? Just a desert lynx and a black cat (both pets). All the interesting mounts are locked within the crates (black mane lion, red wolf, lightning mounts, etc). The only way to get an interesting mount is to gamble with crown crates.

About housing: I finished my house yesterday, spent (purposefully) every crown I have. It is beautiful, kept coming in and out yesterday to admire it. Now, what can I do with it? Sit down in one of my magnificent chairs. That's it?? I cannot store my stuff in my fantastic chests, cannot showcase my laundered items on my neat desk, cannot even go to sleep in my gorgeous bed? I still love it, but what is the point of housing? Maybe show it off to friends?

Maybe they will make it more interactive in the future? It would be nice if they make it like Hearthfire DLC (Skyrim). Who knows.

Spidersick

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

About crowns, did you guys noticed that in the last two showcases there is no mount? Just a desert lynx and a black cat (both pets). All the interesting mounts are locked within the crates (black mane lion, red wolf, lightning mounts, etc). The only way to get an interesting mount is to gamble with crown crates.

About housing: I finished my house yesterday, spent (purposefully) every crown I have. It is beautiful, kept coming in and out yesterday to admire it. Now, what can I do with it? Sit down in one of my magnificent chairs. That's it?? I cannot store my stuff in my fantastic chests, cannot showcase my laundered items on my neat desk, cannot even go to sleep in my gorgeous bed? I still love it, but what is the point of housing? Maybe show it off to friends?

INVITE ME OVER!!!

drakanor

It's actually not about how you name that thing, be it DLC, expansion, chapter, whatever. It's about ZOS giving ESO+ customers the false impression in the past that everything new will be for free or a DLC and therefore suggesting that as an ESO+ customer I will cover everything with my sub. And I'm sure they actually planned to do it like that until they got greedy and came up with "chapters". Let's milk that cow even more.
It's so obvious and it's a clean and simple slap in to the face of all ESO+ players. You just grin and say: look how much we care about the money to spent on us already. For instance, I have subbed from the very first month of ESO (April 2014). I even kept the sub after the free-to-play switch. It's 442,- Euro up to now, and it will be almost 500,- when Morrowind is going to be released.

Seriously, ZOS, I would expect you to give ESO+ customers that "chapter" as a DLC after we have invested up to 500,- into the game. It's not about the 40,- you charge for it, it's about commensurability.

corrosivechains

So. I can now literally buy every WoW product, be it game, expansion, hearthstone cards, heroes of the storm heroes, mounts and pets in their store...every damned thing Blizzard makes with WoW gold.

Tell me again how not offering this content to subscribers and for crowns, both of which cost real money, and can not be earned for free in game, is defensible and comparable to WoW and their expansions again?

vyndral13preub18_ESO

corrosivechains wrote: »

So. I can now literally buy every WoW product, be it game, expansion, hearthstone cards, heroes of the storm heroes, mounts and pets in their store...every damned thing Blizzard makes with WoW gold.

Tell me again how not offering this content to subscribers and for crowns, both of which cost real money, and can not be earned for free in game, is defensible and comparable to WoW and their expansions again?

Rut-roh! Time to switch back to WoW sucks and we dont want to be like WoW! We are different!

JKorr

AzuraKin wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

It all depends, did you agree to allow them to make changes at any time for any reason like you did when you agreed to the TOS before you were allowed to play ESO?!?

They can make whatever changes they like. However that doesn't make it right or mean the customer has no right to feel aggrieved by it. And in some countries, due to consumer laws, taking money and not providing the promised services for that money is...shall we say, frowned upon. No matter what the T&C's might say.

well, there is this thing that rights and laws of nations generally do not apply to the internet, this is why american companies, run by americans have deleted, censored, posts and banned accounts for arbitrary reasons against american companies, all of which is a violation of the freedom of speech clause. you have no rights on the internet except what the company whose site you are using grants to you.

Freedom of speech has nothing to do with a forum hosted by a company. I am not sure if you are from the USA, but in the USA freedom of speech has no bearing on this, internet or not.

actually the constitution applies to all. fed gov, state gov, local gov, individual citizens, corporate entitiies.

Big difference between public spaces and private spaces.

You can rant, rave, scream obscenities, or whatever else you want in public, at least until someone calls the cops on you for creating a public disturbance.

However in a private space, where you agreed to the terms of service and a code of conduct before entering, you no longer have "freedom of speech". These forums are private. Everyone agreed to the code of conduct and tos when joining. http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2009/09/free-speech-in-online-communities-the-delusion-of-entitlement/

Skilledzerob14_ESO

It is really sad that MMO communities have turned into this. I really do miss the days of sub if you want to play and you have to pay for every expansion without a f2p with shop if you want extras mentality.

ChandraNalaar

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

lmao why do ESO+ members who pay a few bucks a month think they're entitled to the world?

Get in line and pay the $40 for the expansion

Because they promised that any additional DLC would be for free. Now, you can just rename it "expansion" to get away with charging more.

This is my concern here. I'm obviously going to get Morrowind, but it's rather unfair that ZOS can decide at whim what falls in the ESO+ boundary and what doesn't. What happens if the dungeon dlc quarter is renamed the "adventurer" expansion, and all adventurer expansions don't count under ESO+ either? I don't think it's the cost of an expansion that is upsetting people, but rather the precedent being set that ZOS can and will change the names of things whenever they like and say it doesn't count for ESO+.