Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

MaxwellC

@ZOS_RichLambert
So about the tel var sets, will they finally have jewelry? I know it isn't the full patch notes but damn-it I want this disclosed nowz!

Derra

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?

Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.

Maybe not nerfed to the ground, but its definitely a reason to never use any of these sets in pve in any situation, when they cannot be used for either burst or sustained dps, and aggressive warhorn, twiceborn star and minor force are the main buffs used for pve.

2p sets are still going to be the best bang for the buck on any builds not using tbs in my opinion. Red mountain and Viper however are going to be a lot less desireable.

Elsonso

DoccEff wrote: »

Kr'agh: 3022 to 1717 dps ---> -43.2%.
Red Mountain: 2623 to 1446 dps ---> -44.9%
Viper (who even uses this for PvE?): 2587 to 1616 dps. ---> -37.5%

48079 to 44548 = -7.3%

There is more to life than proc crits, and if that is all people are seeing, then I can see why it needs to be changed.

Avidspark

Since pvpers will be getting more to spend AP on...will you FINALLY release Akaviri to the crown shop?!?
@ZOS_RichLambert

BohnT

@ZOS_RichLambert
Why did Coat of the Red mountain crit once in your testing without crits?
Tanks for the Data it helps to Stop the angry mob shouting witchcraft so please continue to answer our questions and concerns.

ginoboehm

lordrichter wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

Kr'agh: 3022 to 1717 dps ---> -43.2%.
Red Mountain: 2623 to 1446 dps ---> -44.9%
Viper (who even uses this for PvE?): 2587 to 1616 dps. ---> -37.5%

48079 to 44548 = -7.3%

There is more to life than proc crits, and if that is all people are seeing, then I can see why it needs to be changed.

you realize that this is exactly what we are saying? pve proc sets are not a problem. nerfing them for pve cannot be the goal ( and they are getting majorily nerfed). in pvp proc sets are a major problem. their crit is not the main issue there

Voxicity

AoE cap changes look beautiful

Toc de Malsvi

ginoboehm wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?

Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.

But you realize it is still affecting pve much worse?
and no crit is not the problem when you wearing 7 impen.
As i elaborated only gankers stack enough crit to really hurt you in 7 impen through crit.

Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.


Reading Comprehension.

Armitas

I'm still mulling over the proc set nerf, but I wanted to say the main reason, even larger than proc stacking is the way that stam procsets front load for huge opening damage. No one complains about skoria because its randomly occurring damage, not reliable damage. It isn't incorporated into an opener. Its the stacked and reliable opening damage of stam builds that stack proc/trigger sets that is the core issue with proc sets. If you will recal the complaints started with velidreth and viper remember? It is stamina based proc set problem not a general problem.

List the cancer builds on magicka?

• Infernal Guardian...maybe? cause spamming shields is now a damage ability

Now list the cancer on stamina

• Huntcancer
• Tremorcancer
• Viper cancer
• Velidreth cancer
• Selene double cancer.
• any I missed

^your problem is right up there, not procs in general. Add autododge, Major defile, perma roll, root/snare immunity, double hot ticks from rally/vigor upwards of 5k a tick coupled with tree hugging LOS and massive burst stacking potential and you begin to see exactly where the PvP became broken.

Meld777

@ZOS_RichLambert No itemization changes planned regarding vMA?

pattyLtd

8% is alot

Orgub_gro_Yagash

haha, zos took the stupidity to a higher lvl

datgladiatah

Please don't nerf proc sets for PvE.... there's so many build types centered around this. You're crippling so many builds...

Jaronking

ginoboehm wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

As before, we have to thank the YouTube PvP streamers for this PvE blow.

It always is the same trend:
Powerful YouTube streamers will become even more powerful (AoE+).
Powerless players (happy with a little monster set) will get less powerful (Proc-).

No pvp player asked for this.
This nerf is mostly affecting pve.
In pvp impen was reducing crit already.
This is intended as a pve nerf it is not planned as a pvp nerf.

tbh am agreeing with you.This is way more of a pve nerf then a PVP nerf.

Own

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:

• The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage
• The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)
• The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)
• Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

Poison fixes / adjustments
All poisons now share the same global cooldown and no longer have individual cooldowns. This means that when Update 13 goes live, it will no longer be possible to proc a poison more than once every 10 seconds.In addition, we’ve been able to track down and fix a separate issue where poisons could sometimes double proc.

Stuck in combat in Cyrodiil
This has been an ongoing issue in Cyrodiil for a long time now – due to the nature of combat in Cyrodiil there were cascading threat issues between players. (i.e. – You fight another player and all the threat they have on them is transferred to you) We’ve changed how threat is transferred between players and when Update 13 goes live, you should always drop combat properly after 6 seconds of ending a battle. Note: If you are grouped with other players and they are actively in combat, you will still be considered in combat as well.

Charging into loadscreens in Cyrodiil
We think we have a fix! It’s been really, really hard for us to repro this one internally, and therefore really difficult to fix. A huge thank you to everyone who has submitted locations and videos of how to repro the issue. If you get it again after Update 13, please let us know. (Provide the date/time & campaign - if you have a video of it, even better)

PvPers want more things to spend AP on
We've been working on ways to add more things that you can purchase with AP. With Update 13, we are updating the PVP vendors in your home keeps and adding a new item - Zone Bags. These Zone Bags contain a set item from an overland zone and will scale to your level. For example: the Auridon Zone Bag will only have Queen's Elegance, Twin Sisters and Veiled Heritance item sets in it. The bags will cost 5K AP and always contain one green or blue quality item in them.

Again, this is just a sneak peak... not an exhaustive list. There is a lot more coming in Update 13, including a whole bunch of balance fixes. (Patch Notes aren't quite done yet, so hang in there for awhile longer)

Enjoy your holidays and please be safe on New Years!

NICE! Haters will keep on being potaters, keep it up! maybe look into adjusting poison effects though? It's a little overpowered if that's all you need to drop someone. Kind of the same thing with fasallas

KerinKor

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

A late christmas present for the PVP'ers.

Pity PVEers yet again get screwed in the name of lolPVPbalance.

RebornV3x

A step in the right direction can't wait for the full notes hopefully eye of flame ..etc gets nerfed

Durikas75

Reading all these freak out posts about these proc sets not criting only proves that they were really OP in PvP and PvE, and this nerf was needed. A 2p set should not make your build and if did then you were just exploiting a broken mechanic.

leepalmer95

ginoboehm wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

Kr'agh: 3022 to 1717 dps ---> -43.2%.
Red Mountain: 2623 to 1446 dps ---> -44.9%
Viper (who even uses this for PvE?): 2587 to 1616 dps. ---> -37.5%

48079 to 44548 = -7.3%

There is more to life than proc crits, and if that is all people are seeing, then I can see why it needs to be changed.

you realize that this is exactly what we are saying? pve proc sets are not a problem. nerfing them for pve cannot be the goal ( and they are getting majorily nerfed). in pvp proc sets are a major problem. their crit is not the main issue there

Honestly the power creep in pve is kind of stupid at the moment anyway, considering most groups can skip the majority of content by dpsing past it anyway.

It's not a major nerf to pve and most groups won't even notice it. The 7.3% is on a build with 3x proc sets, it'll be much lower on standard pve builds with 1x proc set.

Koolio

RebornV3x wrote: »

A step in the right direction can't wait for the full notes hopefully eye of flame ..etc gets nerfed

Yea curious as well. It just got buffed via Aoe Caps

Destyran

Why neef proc sets on pve cant you split it?????

DPShiro

And once again PVE players are affected by the whining PVP players because reasons.

CAN YOU PLEASE KEEP THIS CRAP IN PVP AND LEAVE PVE ALONE!!

Shader_Shibes

No sooner they give pve mag dps a boost with proc sets Ilambris/Grothdaar, they take it away with this lazy ass "fix"

Good job ZOS, good job!

Jaronking

Ashtaris wrote: »

Again, PVE'ers get the shaft at the expense of trying to keep the PVP crowd happy.

the thing is they didn't even make us happy with this change it wasn't a good change at all.No one complained about them criting we hated that they could be stacked and how much damage they deal.

ManwithBeard9

The lack of ability to read properly regarding AoE caps and the rabble rousing and pitchfork gathering regarding proc sets shows how quick this community is to over react. Wait until you have the full PTS patch notes and proper testing done before you burn down the village.

GilGalad

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?

Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.

Ok so your Kra'gh went from 3k DPS to, 1.7k DPS with a 32% aggressive Warhorn uptime, so only 10% major force (30% krit dmg). In a decent raidgroup You will have a 100% warhorn uptime and at least 30% major force.

Going from 3k to 1.7k DPS is a 43% nerf for this set. Citing the overall dmg nerf is biased, since the actual nerf is supressed by the rest of your dmg done by your rotation.

So we have a 50% dmg nerf for all monster sets in a trial setup. So Ilambris, Grothdarr, and Kra'gh builds gor needed by 2k DPS because you could not come up with a better solution.

If you want to reduce burst in PVP add a base critical resistance to the battlespirit buff. Or make sure that you can't stack 2 or 3 procs.

TreeHugger1

They changed nothing,procs don't crit shields and yet they burst it easily...
The only benefit is that I will not need to run impen anymore against proctagonists who use 3 proc sets./sarcasm

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Love it. Can't wait for the AOE cap change..this is about to be insane!

Toc de Malsvi

lordrichter wrote: »

DoccEff wrote: »

Kr'agh: 3022 to 1717 dps ---> -43.2%.
Red Mountain: 2623 to 1446 dps ---> -44.9%
Viper (who even uses this for PvE?): 2587 to 1616 dps. ---> -37.5%

48079 to 44548 = -7.3%

There is more to life than proc crits, and if that is all people are seeing, then I can see why it needs to be changed.

What is being overlooked is that this build he is running is using 3 different proc's, and lost 7% total. Most builds do not use 3 proc's and will not be nerfed by 7%.

MLRPZ

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?

Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.

beast uptime on trap but you should get the alchemy passif for dat weap power =P