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Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

  • ginoboehm
    ginoboehm
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    Derra wrote: »
    Belicourt wrote: »
    ginoboehm wrote: »
    Proc sets
    We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)
    @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober
    Hello Mr Lambert,
    I think you understood our requests wrongly. Proc sets are a major problem in PVP not PVE you nerf them major for PVE and only marginally for PVP.
    THIS IS NOT WHAT ANYBODY WANTS.
    Look in pvp we wear a lot of impen to reduce crit damage. In pve we use thief or shadow to push the two crit stats(not even talking about the sets and traits who focus on crit). Now if you let those proc sets not crit you hugely nerf pve and leave pvp at it is (more or less)
    Ofc it will help somehow and it better than nothing because especially gankblades stack sooo much crit that you cannot mitigate it all with impen . nonetheless it is a silly change.The goal cannot be to make a pve huge nerf to help pvp a bit(if at all)
    My opinion:
    "Damage in my opionion should be reliable and skill should determin the outcome not silly procs that proc from simple light attacks and from 3 different sets"

    Please don't waste another patch with bad thought out changes and on mechanics you do not completly have thought through.
    Talk to knowledgable people like @sypherpk @FENGRUSH @Etaniel @Blobsky @Derra and leaders of big and good pvp guilds like smooky and @Hexys
    Thank you for your time.

    That moment when derra just negated your argument...


    Derra wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    Maybe the nerf to proc sets in PVE was intended and not just another nerf cause of PVP? Just maybe. I mean considering that most of those sets are OP af and there is no reason to run anything else then a nerf should be expected right?

    Arguable they were overperforming in both scenarios. So you could be right.

    Well i don´t think it´s the most elegant solution. It does not adress proccstacking and especially viper + monster2p is still going to be insanely good.
    But it will achieve something. When i die to proccs in pvp it´s crits in an estimated 70% of the cases.

    I´m also not convinced proccsets are going to be removed from pve builds. They´re just going to be a little less absolutely mandatory.

    are you running 7 impen with points in reduced crit damage?
    I haven't thought about sorcs yeah it is a buff on classes relying on shields to avoid damage. because we suffer from crits on burts way more then
    Edited by ginoboehm on December 27, 2016 4:50PM
  • Cinbri
    Cinbri
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    Sneak peak is awesome. hope all rest cahnges are same good.
  • MoTeets
    MoTeets
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    I too like this, and looking forward to the changes, content and improvements coming.

  • Prof_Bawbag
    Prof_Bawbag
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    When 2 or 3 monster sets are the only viable option out of around 30ish sets for a large portion of the player base, then something needs to be done. However, rather than bringing the others up to scratch they take the easy route and will probably nerf the good ones to Oblivion and back. Same with weapon traits, they will probably eventually nerf sharpened when there's nothing actually wrong with the trait, it's just the others could do with a boost or 2. Easier to destroy one trait than it is to give all the others some love and attention.
    Carebear Master Race
  • Akimbro
    Akimbro
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    Proc sets
    We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

    Please reconsider this. Although this does provide a solution to the massive burst potential the proc sets currently provide, it is a lazy fix. Removing crit from proc sets hurts PVE more than PVP. With the various options of proc sets available, removing crit from proc sets still provides PVPers with an extremely low time to kill (2-3s vs. 1s currently). This won't change the proc set meta in PVP. However in PVE, where these sets (monster helm sets specifically) account for nearly 10% of your dps, players will be affected the most. In a PVE perspective, removing the crit on procs means these monster helm sets will no longer be affected by the Elfborn/Precise Strikes CP and minor/major force.

    Instead of removing crit from proc sets altogether, it would be nice to see a "nerf" to wearing MULTIPLE proc sets to reduce the overall burst potential.
    Edited by Akimbro on December 27, 2016 4:56PM
    ALACRITY Emperors united RIP
    LAST PRODIGIES World first SO clear RIP

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  • Armitas
    Armitas
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    If the crit doesn't go far enough removing penetration from proc sets could also help. Though I think a battle spirit attachment would be in order.
  • Prof_Bawbag
    Prof_Bawbag
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    Shadeaux wrote: »
    All of these developers eventually *** off enough people one way or another with changes like this that the game dies.

    I dislike farming the sets, but even more, I dislike farming them only to have them arbitrarily changed AFTER all the boring farming. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of money/time to upgrade them to gold.

    If they are going to do stuff like this, they need to allow deconstructed items to return ALL the materials (i.e. 8 tempering, not just 1).

    Then you'd get people buying up all the gold items, deconstructing them and then the people who have tons of gold already would be swimming in gold materials. The fact you only get 1 back is the reason this doesn't happen.

    Carebear Master Race
  • TequilaFire
    TequilaFire
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    @ZOS_RichLambert

    Thank you for the heads up looks like you guys are moving in the right direction.
    One thing, could you guys look at making anti-personnel siege do a little more damage to players?
    Lately many players are just able to stand in my ballista fire remaining at full health and just taunt me by bunny hopping! lol
    This with 100 points in mighty.
    Siege should be the ultimate ball zerg buster.

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  • Sugaroverdose
    Sugaroverdose
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    @ZOS_RichLambert So to get load screens fixed, you must wait update 13 which is releases somewhere at February and doesn't even guarantee that issue is resolved?
    Nothing about constant PS4 Pro crashes with 4k display and graphics downgrade in >1.19 version, i guess we'll get sneak peak about fixing second one 3 month before release of update 14 and first one - never?
    Edited by Sugaroverdose on December 27, 2016 5:02PM
    Tasty
  • OrphanHelgen
    OrphanHelgen
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    MoTeets wrote: »
    No update, complain
    Yes update, complain
    Specifically told partial list, complain not complete
    List of updates, not enough on list

    You cannot satisfy individuals that cannot be satisfied.
    Should spend more time enjoying the game instead up keeping track of percentages, and bursts, etc.
    Just enjoy it !

    maybe a hint that they are doing it wrong then?
    So many good ideas from experienced players, and zenimax doing the complete oposite. Thats why all the rage. Now proc sets was a pvp problem, and they nerf it for pve only. Thats purely a missunderstanding of the problem combined with the wrong solution of the update. Also, update should contain new sets, skills and content, not unnescesary nerfs, making the purpose of a MMO game a step in the wrong direction, where we get the feeling we lose progress and value time spend, instead of the oposite.
    Edited by OrphanHelgen on December 27, 2016 4:59PM
    PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
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  • rotaugen454
    rotaugen454
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    SanTii.92 wrote: »
    Once again a bad change on the proc sets to try and make PvP happy. The burst is fine when fightning mobs with millions of health or that one shot or nearly one shot players. This should had either been left alone or figured out a way to turn the crit off while in Cyrodiil only.

    You will never be able to balance PvE items in PvP settings it's impossible stop trying to do so, and just make items and skills that can only be used in PvE or PvP content.

    Both ilambris and grothdarr are clealry overperfoming compared to anything else on current patch. Change is welcomed as maybe will open up some builf diversity, allowing a second full 5p set without using dw,

    Naw it won't and here's why.

    The number crunching folks will do some math and go "X set is better than Ilambris and Grothdarr now", and guess what, everyone will use X now.

    Great, now I have to grind for X. What zone is X located in?
    "Get off my lawn!"
  • Sigtric
    Sigtric
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    ginoboehm wrote: »
    @ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?

    Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.

    152ncyg.jpg



    Clearly this is the end of the world, looking at this dps comparison. Lolol

    Imo good changes for pve and pvp
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  • MrTtheDK
    MrTtheDK
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    "Proc sets
    We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)"

    @ZOS_RichLambert Coming from a PVEr and PVPer; I like the change for pvp (I would like more of a dot process being placed instead of instant damage). The problem that I always see though in addressing the issues of PVP is the constant affect that these changes have on PVE. Is it a technical problem that prevent's the team from having different affects in PVE and PVP? (IE Barrier, purge ect having to be changed in PVE because of PVP being another example)
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  • Alliedrex
    Alliedrex
    This game has had many sets based on limited AOEs in combat. Does the removal of AOE caps affect healing as well? There are many sets that would have very overpowered abilities when I can place them on 60 people; give everyone a 5k shield, give them major evasion, debuff entire regions of the battlefield with 400 lower weapon damage, or buff spell damage. I don't know if people really understand what they ask for when they want to remove AOE caps.

    There is a blind rage at zergs. I feel you. I would like to remove them as well, but there are many implications that are overlooked. This doesn't just affect healing either. The destro staff that everyone loves to hate, yeah, they just improved its power by an order of magnitude. Individual players will be able to do increased damage against zergs, but my experience in Cyrodiil is that organized zergs tend to abuse these abilities much more than what individual players are capable of doing. I would like to remind the community of past decisions that ZOS has done from user feedback like the destro staff and "tanking" in pvp, sometimes you get more than you ask for. If this is something that ZOS is determined to reintroduce please give feedback that is well researched, fair, and includes thought as to how it can be abused as well as how you think it should be used.
    Edited by Alliedrex on December 27, 2016 5:01PM
  • Derra
    Derra
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    ginoboehm wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Belicourt wrote: »
    ginoboehm wrote: »
    Proc sets
    We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)
    @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober
    Hello Mr Lambert,
    I think you understood our requests wrongly. Proc sets are a major problem in PVP not PVE you nerf them major for PVE and only marginally for PVP.
    THIS IS NOT WHAT ANYBODY WANTS.
    Look in pvp we wear a lot of impen to reduce crit damage. In pve we use thief or shadow to push the two crit stats(not even talking about the sets and traits who focus on crit). Now if you let those proc sets not crit you hugely nerf pve and leave pvp at it is (more or less)
    Ofc it will help somehow and it better than nothing because especially gankblades stack sooo much crit that you cannot mitigate it all with impen . nonetheless it is a silly change.The goal cannot be to make a pve huge nerf to help pvp a bit(if at all)
    My opinion:
    "Damage in my opionion should be reliable and skill should determin the outcome not silly procs that proc from simple light attacks and from 3 different sets"

    Please don't waste another patch with bad thought out changes and on mechanics you do not completly have thought through.
    Talk to knowledgable people like @sypherpk @FENGRUSH @Etaniel @Blobsky @Derra and leaders of big and good pvp guilds like smooky and @Hexys
    Thank you for your time.

    That moment when derra just negated your argument...


    Derra wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    Maybe the nerf to proc sets in PVE was intended and not just another nerf cause of PVP? Just maybe. I mean considering that most of those sets are OP af and there is no reason to run anything else then a nerf should be expected right?

    Arguable they were overperforming in both scenarios. So you could be right.

    Well i don´t think it´s the most elegant solution. It does not adress proccstacking and especially viper + monster2p is still going to be insanely good.
    But it will achieve something. When i die to proccs in pvp it´s crits in an estimated 70% of the cases.

    I´m also not convinced proccsets are going to be removed from pve builds. They´re just going to be a little less absolutely mandatory.

    are you running 7 impen with points in reduced crit damage?
    I haven't thought about sorcs yeah it is a buff on classes relying on shields to avoid damage. because we suffer from crits on burts way more than

    I´m running ~ 2300 to 2700 impen depending on the build i´m running (not all monstersets have perfect traits).

    The builds i´m having the most problem with are usually selenes with high dmg and a random selene crit for 10k+ dmg in my recap. Those are usually NBs with shadow and very high crit CP.

    Personally i don´t know if it will fix proccs for pvp. I think viper still needs a rework. It´s still too good even without critting.

    My personal list of desireable solutions to proccs would be/was:
    1. turn highdmg instant proccs into dots (selene, tremor, viper, skoria, velidreth, redmountain)
    2. no crits
    3. procc gcd
    4. deactivate dmg proccs for pvp
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  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list. :)

    Thank you very much for the updates!
    Proc sets
    We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

    I have to agree with everyone else that it is the stacking of sets, not the crit chance that is the fundamental issue.

    I do think AoE caps should go altogether -- it just further empowers larger groups that already have the advantage of more damage, heals and utility. Nonetheless, I appreciate the smaller steps being taken here instead of the huge changes we've seen in the past. I hope that these smaller steps, if they aren't sufficient, will happen more frequently than they have in the past.
    Poison fixes / adjustments
    All poisons now share the same global cooldown and no longer have individual cooldowns. This means that when Update 13 goes live, it will no longer be possible to proc a poison more than once every 10 seconds.In addition, we’ve been able to track down and fix a separate issue where poisons could sometimes double proc.

    Can you please clarify - does that mean a single player can't proc multiple poisons on you? Or you can only have one poison debuff on you at a time?

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