Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

psychotic13

You mentioned poisons double proc'ing, but you haven't mentioned viper or selene and there multiple procs? I hope they're getting fixed.

But yeah, agree with the majority that you should split PvE and PvP, monster sets will become very underpowered if they can't crit in PvE. Just delete viper instead.

leepalmer95

The non crit in pve in proc sets shouldn't be a thing to be honest.

But either way the burst of some sets still won't be beat in pvp.

Also this non crit nerf seems like it will affect some classes more than other.

Nb's will receive the biggest blow as they have passives to increase crit dmg and crit chance.
Templars next because of crit dmg
Sorc and dk will be affected the least.

I was kind of hoping for more to be honest, a simple only allow 1 proc in pvp would be better, or an internal cooldown of like 5s for all proc sets.

Sheezabeast

buh-bye crit heals from Chokethorn and Troll-King

BalticBlues

It looks like we PvE players wasted tons of golden material for monster sets,
monster sets that we will probably not use anymore with these fixes.
Thank you ZOS. NOT. Another striking blow to PvE because of PvP whiners.

Why building crit builds if crit is not working anymore correctly?

actosh

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Will u, when the Update hits the Live Servers RESET all Trial Leaderboards???
Would like to see how high the scores can get after the massive Nerf to proc sets.

For some sets i agree and it is totaly okay, cause some of them are overperforming.

Mayrael

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:

• The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage
• The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)
• The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)
• Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

How this will solve blob groups problem? Its encouraging to stack! When you stack 6 or more players rest will gain a free 25% ressistance while spreaded players take 100% dmg from blob group... This will just make things worse... It should be turned in other way:

• 6 or less players they deal 100% dmg
• 7-30 players - they deal 75% dmg
• 31-60 - 50% dmg
• 60 or more deal no dmg

I may be wrong but it doesnt look good for me...

Flameheart

Why did I gather over 400 keys to get all my shoulders (Grothdarr, Ilambris, Kragh) - some even twice for the right armor type to fit to light armor drop sets like BSW too and not just to adapted TBS sets - and farmed the dungeons in addition for the helms für 5 chars, if wearing two five-piece-sets now will most likely out dps a 5-set-piece + 3-set-Piece + 2x monsterset combination ?

I damned hope you will at least up the proc chance and maybe the base damage ?

leepalmer95

Mayrael wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:

• The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage
• The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)
• The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)
• Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

How this will solve blob groups problem? Its encouraging to stack! When you stack 6 or more players rest will gain a free 25% ressistance while spreaded players take 100% dmg from blob group... This will just make things worse... It should be turned in other way:

• 6 or less players they deal 100% dmg
• 7-30 players - they deal 75% dmg
• 31-60 - 50% dmg
• 60 or more deal no dmg

I may be wrong but it doesnt look good for me...

AOE caps are already a thing, this is basically increasing the dmg groups take.

7-30 take 50% less dmg on the live server currently, they'll take 25% more with the proposed change so 75%.

OrphanHelgen

Yeah, the pvp balance are affecting pve way too much.

MLRPZ

Mayrael wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:

• The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage
• The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)
• The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)
• Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

How this will solve blob groups problem? Its encouraging to stack! When you stack 6 or more players rest will gain a free 25% ressistance while spreaded players take 100% dmg from blob group... This will just make things worse... It should be turned in other way:

• 6 or less players they deal 100% dmg
• 7-30 players - they deal 75% dmg
• 31-60 - 50% dmg
• 60 or more deal no dmg

I may be wrong but it doesnt look good for me...

the change they bring is gonna allow you to hit harder on stacked ppl so It is a good change.

UppGRAYxDD

Wow, pve dps just got screwed

leepalmer95

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Please tell me that sweeps aren't gonna be lumped into the aoe nerf...

What aoe nerf....?

SanTii.92

Good Lord, forum warrior's reaction... Stop acting like the world is ending, can't you understand that IF monster set end up being underused it can SIMPLY be adressed by fixing the TOOLTIP VALUES ¡?

The sooner you understand that sometimes nerfs are needed the least it will bother you. Consider this, the reason why it upsets you so much is probably because you are abusing an overpowered machinc.

Stay classy forums.

Belicourt

Thanks for the sneak peak sir! @ZOS_RichLambert . Hope some of the negative posts don't scare you off or deter you from doing this early again. I mention this because many people asked for more communication and you are doing that. But people overreact and that's really ungrateful. I'm sorry for my gaming peers.

On a side note, pve must have been impossible before these proc sets.... Balance should come from original classes skills, not gear. [SNIp]

[Edited for bait]

ZOS_RichLambert

psychotic13 wrote: »

You mentioned poisons double proc'ing, but you haven't mentioned viper or selene and there multiple procs? I hope they're getting fixed.

The sneak peak isn't a list of all the patch notes. There's lots more fixes coming.

MLRPZ

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

You mentioned poisons double proc'ing, but you haven't mentioned viper or selene and there multiple procs? I hope they're getting fixed.

The sneak peak isn't a list of all the patch notes. There's lots more fixes coming.

does it mean you fixed that aswell ?

ComboBreaker88

ZOS in the embodiment for the metaphor, when you're a hammer everything is a nail.

This isn't going to solve the issue with proc sets. All this does is to make them less effective in PvE.

People running 3 damage proc sets in PvP will still be OP. Because even non crit the combination is still too powerful.

Implementing a 4 second global cooldown would solve the problem and still allow PvE procs to be useful. And prevent the 1 hit from stealth gank fest that is now cryodil.

sirinsidiator

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:

• The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage
• The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)
• The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)
• Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

Poison fixes / adjustments
All poisons now share the same global cooldown and no longer have individual cooldowns. This means that when Update 13 goes live, it will no longer be possible to proc a poison more than once every 10 seconds.In addition, we’ve been able to track down and fix a separate issue where poisons could sometimes double proc.

Stuck in combat in Cyrodiil
This has been an ongoing issue in Cyrodiil for a long time now – due to the nature of combat in Cyrodiil there were cascading threat issues between players. (i.e. – You fight another player and all the threat they have on them is transferred to you) We’ve changed how threat is transferred between players and when Update 13 goes live, you should always drop combat properly after 6 seconds of ending a battle. Note: If you are grouped with other players and they are actively in combat, you will still be considered in combat as well.

Charging into loadscreens in Cyrodiil
We think we have a fix! It’s been really, really hard for us to repro this one internally, and therefore really difficult to fix. A huge thank you to everyone who has submitted locations and videos of how to repro the issue. If you get it again after Update 13, please let us know. (Provide the date/time & campaign - if you have a video of it, even better)

PvPers want more things to spend AP on
We've been working on ways to add more things that you can purchase with AP. With Update 13, we are updating the PVP vendors in your home keeps and adding a new item - Zone Bags. These Zone Bags contain a set item from an overland zone and will scale to your level. For example: the Auridon Zone Bag will only have Queen's Elegance, Twin Sisters and Veiled Heritance item sets in it. The bags will cost 5K AP and always contain one green or blue quality item in them.

Again, this is just a sneak peak... not an exhaustive list. There is a lot more coming in Update 13, including a whole bunch of balance fixes. (Patch Notes aren't quite done yet, so hang in there for awhile longer)

Enjoy your holidays and please be safe on New Years!

This post is what I have been missing for a long time! Finally we get some insights into a highly controversal topic and hear what will be done with the next update and what the developers are thinking, even before it hits the PTS. Please keep it up and don't mind the people who obviously have no idea how to write constructive criticism.

Regarding the stuck in combat issue, does this mean we can now heal people and no longer have to run on foot afterwards?
And going forward what are your plans to fix the stuck in combat issues while grouped? For example when I am in some keep and one group member is on the other side of the map fighting someone, I cannot use the transit shrine or my horse, because I am stuck in combat without even having seen an enemy.

pieratsos

Maybe next time dont mention how broken those sets are in every single PVE build video u make so they dont get nerfed. If you want to blame someone blame those who were saying that they are broken.

leepalmer95

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

You mentioned poisons double proc'ing, but you haven't mentioned viper or selene and there multiple procs? I hope they're getting fixed.

The sneak peak isn't a list of all the patch notes. There's lots more fixes coming.

When you have to literally post what you've just written again because people can't read or fail to understand the OP...

magnusthorek

I always played considering the worst case scenario which is what I could do if my attacks didn't crit and because of this personal behavior I learned, more or less, how to stay cool facing such situations in which, because of half of the player base is complaining about something, the other half is screwed as well. So at least for now, I'm cool with these changes.

But since for the first time (as far as I know) we had public sneak peak from one of the top dog bosses in the company, I would like to ask if you or anyone else can do the same bringing news from the PvE side that doesn't refer to Homestead, like, for examplel reducing the zone overhead, specially Alliance Capitals, so we don't have two or three loading screens or even having our bars locked, preventing switching, because the game still loading assets of tons of players

I wouldn't touch the subject of most od Stamina classes/races/combos being much stronger than most of Magicka because I think the people responsible for such balancing do play as Stamina and don't want to get projudiced themselves.

But the performance is the biggest of my concerns because it's what prevents me and lots of fellows from my country to, for example, achieve those stratospheric DPS marks because of our latency.

wolfie1.0.

Dear ZOS,

I really want to attend one of these meetings where you come up with stuff to improve on.

THE GEAR CHANGE:
A while back you released several high powered BOE and BOP sets that you didn't test and when players said they were OP you released them anyway. Then realizing that there were only 1-2 of these sets you decided that to balance these sets out you would just release more OP sets instead of toning down the effects of the OP ones.

Now realizing that PVP has become Proc crit heaven instead of a place where people use their skills you decided NOW to remove the crit feature, and again hinder PVE'ers. Further causing problems and conflict between the two player classes ( which really we need less of)


THE REAL SOLUTION:

How about this ZOS. We know that you can implement changes that affect soley PVP (ie AOE caps, Battle Spirit, etc) How about a compromise. Make it so that the sets don't crit in PVP areas only. Its that simple. make your changes this way and players will be more content with your decision.

ginoboehm

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

You mentioned poisons double proc'ing, but you haven't mentioned viper or selene and there multiple procs? I hope they're getting fixed.

The sneak peak isn't a list of all the patch notes. There's lots more fixes coming.

@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?

FloppyTouch

like any of this matter in pve, pve is so stupid easy they can nerf ur gear and skills and class into the ground and you can still do everything just fine.

DoccEff

This "fix" to proc-sets is just lazy! I mean do you even take like 5 min to think about how this will affect the game?

Developers must be like:
"Oh, there is a set with a 100% damage proc-change and another one with 50%? Well, we better not decrease the percent, or the damage they do. We better remove critdamage, which is more important in PvE than in PvP, for ALL proc-sets! Including those that aren't even used in PvP, and therefore making sets like Kragh, Ilambris and Grothdar useless in PvE. But hey, we can just bring some overpriced stuff into the crown store and people will have something else to rage about!"

Jaronking

texassob wrote: »

@Jaronking @Ron_Burgundy_79 here we go lol

Well I guess am still playing overwatch and uninstalling eso today @Ron_Burgundy_79 @texassob .

@ZOS_RichLambert I understand your thought process on this but you haven't fixed people issue with proc sets in pvp.People have issue with the damage and the ability to stack multiple proc sets at once.Making proc sets not able to be crit hurts pve and doesn't fix them in pvp at all.Please have your team look into another change for proc sets because as it is right now it just pisses off a lot of pvpers and end game pvers at the same time.So can we please discuss another change to proc sets that not this?This change is bade overall for both sides of the fence.

Sigtric

One thing I've learned in this thread is that a lot can't seem to comprehend what they are reading.

Most specifically that this is just a small list of things going into the update. It's not all.

leepalmer95

ginoboehm wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

You mentioned poisons double proc'ing, but you haven't mentioned viper or selene and there multiple procs? I hope they're getting fixed.

The sneak peak isn't a list of all the patch notes. There's lots more fixes coming.

@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?

Well to be honest i'm kind of happy i won't be able to be crit of sets like selene or viper.

Selene having a 16k tooltip
Veli having 12k...

And thats without incap boosting it or the potential of critting.

Beware13

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Will the next update also put my missing VMA sharpened inferno staff back in my bank?

texassob

Sigtric wrote: »

One thing I've learned in this thread is that a lot can't seem to comprehend what they are reading.

Most specifically that this is just a small list of things going into the update. It's not all.

yeah cuz we know how they ever fix anything right. regardless if they fix one thing they will screw up 2 more things.