Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

WeylandLabs

Destro ultimate nerf @ZOS_RichLambert its ruining pvp. And make it too easy for players to get kills for AP. (Not really fun)

Make getting AP more exciting besides running up and down a resources spamming and timing ultimates.

Suggestion: Make it skill based not you who kill thats killed alot of ppl its, how they are doing it. So gankers are worth more, ultimate spamming reduces AP in a global cooldown. Larger groups of 6 to 24 has gain even smaller ap.

My 2 cents... and if your a pve player im sorry you wouldnt understand. And if your both again you still wouldn't understand, i play pvp only and a very small bit of pve to get gear.

cpuScientist

kyle.wilson wrote: »

The proc sets have been massively overpowered since inception. When a set item can be as much as 20-30% of you damage in pve. Or 75% on an encounter in pvp. It needs changing.
But, the current state of pvp will need a lot more than just removing crit from proc sets to rebalance it. I've been running a viper, selene proctard in trueflame while running solo. It is the only thing that will let me in and out before their 10 friends roll me. I have many other chars I would rather play, but get frustrated by the massive zerg. But, by playing a proctard I can easily drop zerg leaders and bail.

But, I'm more looking to the changes in AOE caps. Maybe we can break up some of the notorious zergling groups in trueflame.

No offense but if they are doing that much of your damage, then you need to change your build...

Pops_ND_Irish

Dazza1968 wrote: »

Zeni should at least release another sneak peak at the natch potes, maybe something a little more positive to quell the forum rage.

Nothing will quell some peoples rage. They rage to rage

Lord_Etrigan

reiverx wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

reiverx wrote: »

Lord_Etrigan wrote: »

I have been reading alot of post in trying to get both sides of the proc set nerfing. On the one side you have PVP jumping for joy as they will still be able to use the proc sets with little to no difference in performance whilst stakking sets that are capable of one-shoting players with 20k health.

On the other side you have PVE players having to go up against one-shotting bosses with over 2 mil health.

Yes, I have heard the arguments about PVE players were able to do Dungeons and trails before the monster and proc sets came along. What most people seem to forget is that the game has evolved and so so has to content. Some will argue this so ask around a chat who wants to run vet Gold Towers or Imperial Prison and listen to the excuses of its their turn to do the dishes.
It's not that its so hard (OK, it is as I have seen many a rage quit.LOL),but makes you feel like you have just worked your butt of to get a monster piece that has a training trait ( yeah it sucks, I know). Even with monster sets there is still a lot of mecanics you need to know before you can bring that boss down and by nerfing PVE you are making it even harder to the point were no one is going to be interested in doing vet or even trail except for the elite among us.

Now lets put the shoe on the other foot. PVP: lets take of impen trait and for good cause nerf those poison, vipers, Jesus beams, two handed abilities....(you get my drift) and lets see if PVP players can still perform the way that they do.

Now you tell me who is getting the short end of the straw?

PVP did when they introduced all of those new sets. If PVE suffered the same way that PVP has, there would be a mass exodus from the game.

It really is that bad.

And it's not the PVP crowd who are making the decisions. I'm all for separating abilities and gear depending on which environment you're in. No PVPer with half a brain wants to see PVE wrecked the way that PVP has been for pretty much every update since IC.

Lemme put this in simple terms you'll understand @reiverx

This wont solve your problem. A dude wearing viper, red mountain and Veli will still do upwards of 10 K through the sheer volume of procs. Multiply it by five and that's still bad. This solves nothing.

And PVE isn't yours to *** with. We dont want this change. Your not helping us, stop pretending your the lightbringer trying to spread enlightenment to a disraught people.

Your a Conqueror, tramping the native people for your own greed. Stop acting like a savior on our behalf. The people yelling about how proc sets suck in PVE, usually dont PVE. So little about a build revolves around these proc sets that anyone who does think they do is provibly stupid.

So stop. Stop trying to 'save us from ourselves' or some such nonsense. We see right through it.

Jesus Christ dude. I'm on your side. I PVE half the time. I do the undaunted pledges every day. Did you just pick out random phrases from a lucky bag because they look cool?

My feeling is and correct me if I'm wrong. Should people feel that monster and proc sets are to strong in PVP then why not make it similar to the momento feature in PVP, IOW when in PVE it is active and does not effect DPS but when going to PVP it becomes inactive similar to the mudball I would love to throw at that guy T-baging me after one_shotting me with those Stackable sets.

See! easy just like falling out of a tree, just let go of the branch. LOL

Publius_Scipio

Witar wrote: »

Global cooldown on proc sets seems to be much better idea. It will stop proc set abusing and oneshot builds without screwing capabilities of monster sets in pve.

If ZOS adds a global cooldown for procs or decreased the chance a proc would fire off, wouldn't that also decrease DPS? You might still have a higher DPS output with ZOS's current proposed change (no crit, but no change to proc chance itself) than any cooldown.

Is it even possible what the hardcore PvEers are asking? Make all the changes to proc sets only affect PvP zones and leave PvE zones alone?

What about when dueling in PvE zones? Do we need to connect IBM Watson to the mega server?

Ch4mpTW

Is anyone besides me anticipating a video from @FENGRUSH about the changes ZOS will be making regarding proc-based sets no longer being able to crit as a solution to 1 of the problems of proc-sets overperforming in PvP? Let alone a video about U13 once the patch notes are released, and it goes live on the PTS? Love that guy's videos. Lol. *Raises bicep.*

livingdeaddoll_zx

I don't get you ZOS , you have the game in a good place at the moment and want to go and mess with it, people work hard on their builds and you choose to tailor things to the lowest common denominator. This seems the result of listening to the wrong people's complaints

Johngo0036

personally i think that the changes to proc sets is a step in the right direction, (i dont think it will be enough though)
For both pve and pvp,

Pve'ers have may sets that can boost their damage and running in a well oiled group where players are wearing different setups to boost the teams damage is common.

We PVE'ers did fine before proc sets were introduced,

It is about time that pvp'ers got some love.

Before you fly off the handle insulting me over my comments i do both pvp and pve.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

livingdeaddoll_zx wrote: »

I don't get you ZOS , you have the game in a good place at the moment and want to go and mess with it, people work hard on their builds and you choose to tailor things to the lowest common denominator. This seems the result of listening to the wrong people's complaints

I honestly don't care about proc sets. they are a symptom of a greater problem in cyrodiil. I'm not mad about getting killed by a proc, im mad that everyone has to build for burst and/or use proc set to kill people because most builds have infinite regen and wont die unless you CC or burst them.

We need some form of limits in PvP on resources, regen, and the damage that your resource pool gives you. That is how you fix PvP, not nerfing proc sets. If feels good to acquire powerful gear and use powerful skills. Except that skills and gear keep getting nerfed because people have unlimited resources and regen.

We need something like we had in 1.5 in softcaps but smarter. Resource pools are boring. Sets, gear and skills are fun. But the controls have to go somewhere, so i'd rather have limited resource pools and regen than have people constantly cry for nerfs because damage and regen is too high due to attributes

f047ys3v3n

My thoughts:

Proc sets:
In all likelihood no raiding mag dps will use any of the 2 pc monster sets any more. Dps, especially in raids with the + crit raid buffs, is heavily based on crit to the point you are probably removing 30-40% of these sets dps. They will not be viable. As a mag NB this is good for me because you folks forgot how mag NB's do dps and didn't make a set that proced well for mag NB (ranged, relatively low dots, combination of flame and mag damage) anyway. Now everybody else is in my boat. Stam toons mostly use a weapon pen set of which no mag equivalent exists so they will gain a big edge over mag dps with this change. Stam gear sets are better than mag ones, basically, they become more better.

Also of note relating to proc sets; The change will not help your proc set PVP cancer problem as Impen makes crit a non-factor in PVP for decent players. Those who are bads and therefore not wearing impen will get blown up because they are bads either way so no change there. You guys should really know this. I know it and I rarely wander into the frustration of the PVP lagdome.

I detect ****** thought on this one. We have a problem (multiproc set burst damage), instead of addressing the problem with say a global cooldown on proc sets so that if you wear many only one will go off at a time or by changing burst to DOT damage (the best idea BTW) we will remove crit (presumably this is quick and easy to do) and thereby lower the burst damage. Whatever, it won't work, but it is good for my build so go for it even if it will *** off an entirely different group of players and not fix the problem you want to fix. Yay, indirect accidental mag NB relative buff.

AOE cap change in Cyr:
I don't do much PVP but everyone I have ever heard in PVP thinks this is a good idea and about time. Wasn't this one of ******'s first changes on being hired? I honestly thought there would be a personnel change before a major AOE cap one.

Stuck in Combat and Load screens:
Sounds like good news to me. Certainly steps twords making PVP something I might actually be interested in doing more than once in a blue moon. These were part of the reason that I find PVP an un-fun experience though they were a small one compared to say lag and the unbelievable and common rage whispers you get in there.

PVP AP changes:
I am not a PVP guy and even I recognize they don't get much extrinsic reward for their play time relative to what I get. My gold per hour and theirs is not in the same stratosphere and, for the most part, my content contains all of my, and their, gear. This moves in a good direction for them.


Changes I would like to see:

1) End Cheat Engine. No really, spend a concerted effort to end the thing. Create a subroutine that randomly occasionally takes a short snapshot of a players stats and damage outputs and back calculates everything based on their gear etc to make sure it is all legit. Perma-ban the cheaters. Looking for just the huge, laughable, cases of guys running 10k spell damage is not enough, 10% dps is huge in an MMO. It is not that hard to do the cheat engine thing better, and so important. I for one think that many of the best groups are infested with them making your leader-boards a joke in PVE not even to start on the issues in PVP. To put it another way, one of the largest and wealthiest MMO's in the world are being made a fool of by a couple punks who are likely doing this in their spare time to pay for college.

2) Genuinely make quick cast ground abilities a thing. Hit the button twice now and you are stuck at half cast preventing abilities from going off just like before. Basically your fix was not to make them quick cast but rather essentially add a macro internally that hits the button twice when the player pushes it once. Problem not solved.

3) Infal 5 pc needs to proc on all heavy and light attacks. So annoying that neither 5 pc of this, nor moondancer are BIS for endgame mag dps. Especially when you are a Mag NB and don't have a 2pc monster set for you worth anything (except Iceheart in vMA and that is not about dps). Also so annoying to be running Infal when I am healing. It is a freaking dps set, what do I need with a 5% dps bonus? Why do I have to run this thing because your glitchy channeled resto staff basically instantly counts as fully charged when a flame staff takes 2.2 seconds? Ridiculous.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Meh, you'll just have everyone dump everything into sharpened and penetration cp then. Either way, people will figure it out. Honestly, I've only ever run one proc set at a time anyways

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO

souravami wrote: »

Everybody was complaining about proc sets in pvp, nobody said anything about the use of them in pve. Why not change them only in Cyrodil through battlespirit? More over crit is much more important in pve than pvp as everyone wears impen gear there.

When the problem is high burst damage, you don't remove the critical part (as at least in PvE that is a high part of the overall damage for at least "some" DPS builds, see above) you just spread that damage out over time! Either as a damage over time (DOT) or by a delay (damage comes x seconds later) or both. Add a cool down timer if necessary.

Seriously: Poisons and diseases aren't instant and even fire burns are hurting you more over time then they do right this instance (as in blood loss or severe trauma / shock) in real life.

When you add a delay to when the proc damage actually fires, you solve a large portion of that burst damage problem (with a delay > 1-2 seconds at least) for PvP. Make the damage also an 'damage increases with time' DOT (problem gets larger if you don't purge it in time) you also solve / prevent the delay stacking / macro abuse problem.

Sure, people need to have to put ways to purge on their bar or in their sets and/or increase their resistance, but that is sure preferable to what we got now (and is almost mandatory now anyway).
In addition, you might want to (re-)add some more ways to purge DoTs to the skills again as additional countermeasure, too.

For PvE - (boss) fights last longer there - and nobody really cares about mobs anyway. Unless the bosses are immune or automatically purge every second (which is pretty much the same as immune) you still get the same total damage per minute you got before.

Result: No harm done for PvE and the proc set / high burst problem got solved for PvP.

BohnT

Wasn't there a set which has the same 5pc as IA but had different 2-4pc bonuses. I think it is called wise mage but don't hold me on that

Knootewoot

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Destro ultimate nerf @ZOS_RichLambert its ruining pvp. And make it too easy for players to get kills for AP. (Not really fun)

Make getting AP more exciting besides running up and down a resources spamming and timing ultimates.

Suggestion: Make it skill based not you who kill thats killed alot of ppl its, how they are doing it. So gankers are worth more, ultimate spamming reduces AP in a global cooldown. Larger groups of 6 to 24 has gain even smaller ap.

My 2 cents... and if your a pve player im sorry you wouldnt understand. And if your both again you still wouldn't understand, i play pvp only and a very small bit of pve to get gear.

At least the destro ultimate is visible. If you ride your horse and hear a clunky sound and get jumped on my a stamblade and you don't die of the 3 proc sets he is wearing you will of the bow ultimate ballista which he placed before jumping on you. And before you realize what happened, in the 5 seconds you get of your horse, get your bearing and try to block the next attack of the stamblade you already had 40k damage from the ballista and the 30-40k from the initial attack of the stamblade,

Shalnark

Monster sets like grothdarr and illambris reduced the gap between stamina and magicka builds in PvE by a lot.
Back to stam now i guess?

Bobby_V_Rockit

Knootewoot wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Destro ultimate nerf @ZOS_RichLambert its ruining pvp. And make it too easy for players to get kills for AP. (Not really fun)

Make getting AP more exciting besides running up and down a resources spamming and timing ultimates.

Suggestion: Make it skill based not you who kill thats killed alot of ppl its, how they are doing it. So gankers are worth more, ultimate spamming reduces AP in a global cooldown. Larger groups of 6 to 24 has gain even smaller ap.

My 2 cents... and if your a pve player im sorry you wouldnt understand. And if your both again you still wouldn't understand, i play pvp only and a very small bit of pve to get gear.

At least the destro ultimate is visible. If you ride your horse and hear a clunky sound and get jumped on my a stamblade and you don't die of the 3 proc sets he is wearing you will of the bow ultimate ballista which he placed before jumping on you. And before you realize what happened, in the 5 seconds you get of your horse, get your bearing and try to block the next attack of the stamblade you already had 40k damage from the ballista and the 30-40k from the initial attack of the stamblade,

Neef PvP nightblades! WOO! But yeah, I dont play pvp purely because gankbladea *** me off too much with the insta kill crap. Then when they fail, straight to the forums bitching about how they were pulled out of stealth and that every other class and armour type must be nerfed...

AzraelKrieg

Shalnark wrote: »

Monster sets like grothdarr and illambris reduced the gap between stamina and magicka builds in PvE by a lot.
Back to stam now i guess?

I wouldn't just yet. Remember, this is the bare minimum for the patch notes and only really covers the PvP changes. There is nothing that says that the base damage for the some of the weaker sets that proc hasn't been increased to compensate the crit loss

Knootewoot

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Destro ultimate nerf @ZOS_RichLambert its ruining pvp. And make it too easy for players to get kills for AP. (Not really fun)

Make getting AP more exciting besides running up and down a resources spamming and timing ultimates.

Suggestion: Make it skill based not you who kill thats killed alot of ppl its, how they are doing it. So gankers are worth more, ultimate spamming reduces AP in a global cooldown. Larger groups of 6 to 24 has gain even smaller ap.

My 2 cents... and if your a pve player im sorry you wouldnt understand. And if your both again you still wouldn't understand, i play pvp only and a very small bit of pve to get gear.

At least the destro ultimate is visible. If you ride your horse and hear a clunky sound and get jumped on my a stamblade and you don't die of the 3 proc sets he is wearing you will of the bow ultimate ballista which he placed before jumping on you. And before you realize what happened, in the 5 seconds you get of your horse, get your bearing and try to block the next attack of the stamblade you already had 40k damage from the ballista and the 30-40k from the initial attack of the stamblade,

Neef PvP nightblades! WOO! But yeah, I dont play pvp purely because gankbladea *** me off too much with the insta kill crap. Then when they fail, straight to the forums bitching about how they were pulled out of stealth and that every other class and armour type must be nerfed...

Agree

I am a nightblade myself and come out of stealth to gank. But I am a melee magblade so I don't one shot. I get the upperhand because I can attack first. After my initial attack the fight should continue and be good.

Sadly, either I get *** because I wear light armor or I cannot outdamage any stamina build. And I when I het ganked myself it's insta death for me because it's always a stamblade with procsets.

I can switch to stamblade easily as I also have velidrerth and viper. But I don't like it and rather stay magblade melee. But it's getting frustrating being one shotted all the time even with full impenetrable when using LA while I hit like a sponge against all those HA even when using spinner to get more spell penetration.

Its so out of balance.

Next update I see what happens. else I will throw away my magicka build and go stamina myself. Although I will not use the proc sets.

User_Name

Regarding the proc set fix, it actually seems to be more minded at PVE than PVP.

As people have stated in PVP it probably won't have all that much of an effect on burst when people wear several proc damage sets, but for PVE it will be an overall DPS-loss. I think this is a PVE-fix more than anything, and rightly so since dungeon mechanics can be skipped by having enough DPS which is hardly the intention.

If it was a PVP solution, I feel like the fix would need to be a bit more drastic, as in converting to dots or a global cooldown.

cpuScientist

Geez just decrease the tooltip in grithdar and valkyn and leave crits alone. It's honestly the only thing keeping me in the game sometimes, hoping I get that illambris or grothdar set. But nopers. It will still probably be bis. But it's just akward to have some things benefit from CRIT and not others. BAND-AID ZOS!

WillhelmBlack

All I can say is "I don't have to be here".So I probably won't if multiple procs, Radiant Destruction and Destro Ultimates aren't being nerfed properly. 2017 is looking good for new PvP games, so do it right Zenimax. Currently all you seem to be doing is nerfing PvE DPS.

ZoM_Head

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Global cooldown on proc sets seems to be much better idea. It will stop proc set abusing and oneshot builds without screwing capabilities of monster sets in pve.

If ZOS adds a global cooldown for procs or decreased the chance a proc would fire off, wouldn't that also decrease DPS? You might still have a higher DPS output with ZOS's current proposed change (no crit, but no change to proc chance itself) than any cooldown.

Is it even possible what the hardcore PvEers are asking? Make all the changes to proc sets only affect PvP zones and leave PvE zones alone?

What about when dueling in PvE zones? Do we need to connect IBM Watson to the mega server?

Are you aware, that the only proc sets used in PvE are the Monster Sets? And even then its Grothdarr, LLambris and Kragh's sets, sets that are not really the issue in PvP?

Are you Also aware, that sets such as Velindreth, Viper, Selene and Widowmaker are not used in competitive trails? There are no similar sets for Magicka builds, meaning there are no 5 piece magicka sets that proc once every 4 seconds like viper, nothing similar to widowmaker and nothing hard hitting as Velindreth and Viper? Valkyn can not be compared due to it proccing from applying a DOT, the low proc chance and the cooldown?

Yet PvE is getting hit with this planned crit change, while all alone it is the stamiina proc sets (specific ones) that are causing the issues....

Finisherofwar

Is there any way that we can convince u guys that removing crits on proc sets in pve is a bad idea?

I'm all for it in pvp but in pve it's frankly just unnecessary and a step backwards.

reiverx

Lord_Etrigan wrote: »

reiverx wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

reiverx wrote: »

Lord_Etrigan wrote: »

I have been reading alot of post in trying to get both sides of the proc set nerfing. On the one side you have PVP jumping for joy as they will still be able to use the proc sets with little to no difference in performance whilst stakking sets that are capable of one-shoting players with 20k health.

On the other side you have PVE players having to go up against one-shotting bosses with over 2 mil health.

Yes, I have heard the arguments about PVE players were able to do Dungeons and trails before the monster and proc sets came along. What most people seem to forget is that the game has evolved and so so has to content. Some will argue this so ask around a chat who wants to run vet Gold Towers or Imperial Prison and listen to the excuses of its their turn to do the dishes.
It's not that its so hard (OK, it is as I have seen many a rage quit.LOL),but makes you feel like you have just worked your butt of to get a monster piece that has a training trait ( yeah it sucks, I know). Even with monster sets there is still a lot of mecanics you need to know before you can bring that boss down and by nerfing PVE you are making it even harder to the point were no one is going to be interested in doing vet or even trail except for the elite among us.

Now lets put the shoe on the other foot. PVP: lets take of impen trait and for good cause nerf those poison, vipers, Jesus beams, two handed abilities....(you get my drift) and lets see if PVP players can still perform the way that they do.

Now you tell me who is getting the short end of the straw?

PVP did when they introduced all of those new sets. If PVE suffered the same way that PVP has, there would be a mass exodus from the game.

It really is that bad.

And it's not the PVP crowd who are making the decisions. I'm all for separating abilities and gear depending on which environment you're in. No PVPer with half a brain wants to see PVE wrecked the way that PVP has been for pretty much every update since IC.

Lemme put this in simple terms you'll understand @reiverx

This wont solve your problem. A dude wearing viper, red mountain and Veli will still do upwards of 10 K through the sheer volume of procs. Multiply it by five and that's still bad. This solves nothing.

And PVE isn't yours to *** with. We dont want this change. Your not helping us, stop pretending your the lightbringer trying to spread enlightenment to a disraught people.

Your a Conqueror, tramping the native people for your own greed. Stop acting like a savior on our behalf. The people yelling about how proc sets suck in PVE, usually dont PVE. So little about a build revolves around these proc sets that anyone who does think they do is provibly stupid.

So stop. Stop trying to 'save us from ourselves' or some such nonsense. We see right through it.

Jesus Christ dude. I'm on your side. I PVE half the time. I do the undaunted pledges every day. Did you just pick out random phrases from a lucky bag because they look cool?

My feeling is and correct me if I'm wrong. Should people feel that monster and proc sets are to strong in PVP then why not make it similar to the momento feature in PVP, IOW when in PVE it is active and does not effect DPS but when going to PVP it becomes inactive similar to the mudball I would love to throw at that guy T-baging me after one_shotting me with those Stackable sets.

See! easy just like falling out of a tree, just let go of the branch. LOL

I said in my first post...

I'm all for separating abilities and gear depending on which environment you're in.

IMHO that's something that should have been done a long time ago. I don't think the game can sustain itself by going the route it's going. I also don't think that removing crits is a monumental disaster but it doesn't help either PVP or PVE. Crits are not the problem in PVP.

Zenimax already knows this. I mean, they must. Right?

Gal

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

All I can say is "I don't have to be here".So I probably won't if multiple procs, Radiant Destruction and Destro Ultimates aren't being nerfed properly. 2017 is looking good for new PvP games, so do it right Zenimax. Currently all you seem to be doing is nerfing PvE DPS.

Lol I like how this is coming back to a nerf radiant oppression thread. @WillhelmBlack radiant is not OP you can negate the *** out of it in cyro and in pve its what makes Templars valuable to have. As for the comments related to the "sneak peek"
the fact that monster helms aren't going to crit anymore is a pretty substantial nerf to every magicka build in pve, and will also affect stamina builds too, especially in vMA. those 600k stamsorc scores are only possible because velidreth can crit for upwards of 25k damage making it much faster to burn enemies. All of you in favour of this nerf need to look at the damages to both sides, even though it is a 'pvp fix' it solves nothing there, and in pve it only serves to become a hindrance to raiders who use those sets to min/max their dps and (with their combined skill) clear some tough content.

I would also like to point out, monster helms like groth and illambris aren't crutches for dps players, equipping groth doesn't automatically make you pull 50k dps, you need to l2p on your build and run with some damn good healers and tanks to pull that off. the rest of it relies on how well the dps knows how to play their build

leepalmer95

Gal wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

All I can say is "I don't have to be here".So I probably won't if multiple procs, Radiant Destruction and Destro Ultimates aren't being nerfed properly. 2017 is looking good for new PvP games, so do it right Zenimax. Currently all you seem to be doing is nerfing PvE DPS.

Lol I like how this is coming back to a nerf radiant oppression thread. @WillhelmBlack radiant is not OP you can negate the *** out of it in cyro and in pve its what makes Templars valuable to have. As for the comments related to the "sneak peek"
the fact that monster helms aren't going to crit anymore is a pretty substantial nerf to every magicka build in pve, and will also affect stamina builds too, especially in vMA. those 600k stamsorc scores are only possible because velidreth can crit for upwards of 25k damage making it much faster to burn enemies. All of you in favour of this nerf need to look at the damages to both sides, even though it is a 'pvp fix' it solves nothing there, and in pve it only serves to become a hindrance to raiders who use those sets to min/max their dps and (with their combined skill) clear some tough content.

I would also like to point out, monster helms like groth and illambris aren't crutches for dps players, equipping groth doesn't automatically make you pull 50k dps, you need to l2p on your build and run with some damn good healers and tanks to pull that off. the rest of it relies on how well the dps knows how to play their build

Hahaha, i had a good laugh there.

User_Name

When you meet a Tremorscale tank player on PS4 at least, chances are he will only spam Pierce Armor and nothing else, and actually have moderate success with that strategy since a lot of players min/max and forget to focus on defensive attributes of their build. A lot of NB's wont even slot Fear and just rely on one-/two-shotting mechanics even as defense, because it works.

You can't seriously say that proc damage set builds takes time to learn to play or that it is somehow skillful. Yes, there are super good players that have taken up proc sets too and are very dangerous, but they'd also be really dangerous if they didn't use these sets.

The proc damage sets are a crutch, simple as, and the discussions on the subject proves it: Some players are trying to make the case that PVE content will be near impossible to complete without crits from proc damage sets, but having played since release when these sets weren't in the game, I can testify that this is absolutely false.

SunfireKnight86

User_Name wrote: »

When you meet a Tremorscale tank player on PS4 at least, chances are he will only spam Pierce Armor and nothing else, and actually have moderate success with that strategy since a lot of players min/max and forget to focus on defensive attributes of their build. A lot of NB's wont even slot Fear and just rely on one-/two-shotting mechanics even as defense, because it works.

You can't seriously say that proc damage set builds takes time to learn to play or that it is somehow skillful. Yes, there are super good players that have taken up proc sets too and are very dangerous, but they'd also be really dangerous if they didn't use these sets.

The proc damage sets are a crutch, simple as, and the discussions on the subject proves it: Some players are trying to make the case that PVE content will be near impossible to complete without crits from proc damage sets, but having played since release when these sets weren't in the game, I can testify that this is absolutely false.

Thank you! This thread reminds me of the vampire ult DK spam builds on launch that could kill raid groups worth of PvP players in seconds. The same sort of people were on the forums making the same sort of arguments. "It'll ruin PvE! Working as intended! I'll quit!" The same people had the same level of "skill" which is why they got stomped after that change was made and they didn't have a cookie cutter build to fall back on anymore.

I suspect half of them are PvP players who don't want their "I win" toys taken away. And even if they're not, they're PvE players crying for the same reason.

Riga_Mortis

If its mainly the stam proc sets that are causing all this pvp uproar, wouldnt it be logical to maybe try and sort them out first, then have a look at the mag sets that are overperforming in pve?

Ch4mpTW

Dazza1968 wrote: »

If its mainly the stam proc sets that are causing all this pvp uproar, wouldnt it be logical to maybe try and sort them out first, then have a look at the mag sets that are overperforming in pve?

That would be too logical. Lol. Come on now. This is ZOS we are dealing with here.