Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

potirondb16_ESO · December 2016

It's actually kind of good, only matter now is to see if they expect raising the overall dps status or lowering it in order to keep the content difficulty where it's at. We are already noticing reduction to sustain as there's been in every patch increasing cp cap....

Hope they figure something with the class balance. Would be nice to dps magika again sometimes:)

Gal · December 2016

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

It's actually kind of good, only matter now is to see if they expect raising the overall dps status or lowering it in order to keep the content difficulty where it's at. We are already noticing reduction to sustain as there's been in every patch increasing cp cap....

Hope they figure something with the class balance. Would be nice to dps magika again sometimes:)

@potirondb16_ESO

Both classes pull very comparable dps my friend, magicka is actually preferred because they can survive better via shields and strong self heals. The change to proc sets critting, however, isn't beneficial at all. It takes away something that rewards groups for being very well coordinated just because people were QQing about certain sets that were overperforming by far in cyrodil. If you do start playing a magicka dps before update 13 passes you will see that grothdarr or illambris are extremely desirable for min/maxing your dps.

potirondb16_ESO · December 2016

Gal wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

It's actually kind of good, only matter now is to see if they expect raising the overall dps status or lowering it in order to keep the content difficulty where it's at. We are already noticing reduction to sustain as there's been in every patch increasing cp cap....

Hope they figure something with the class balance. Would be nice to dps magika again sometimes:)

@potirondb16_ESO

Both classes pull very comparable dps my friend, magicka is actually preferred because they can survive better via shields and strong self heals. The change to proc sets critting, however, isn't beneficial at all. It takes away something that rewards groups for being very well coordinated just because people were QQing about certain sets that were overperforming by far in cyrodil. If you do start playing a magicka dps before update 13 passes you will see that grothdarr or illambris are extremely desirable for min/maxing your dps.

I'm agreeing that magicka can work. I play a magicka sorc (sometimes) and he's ok. Nothing as strong as my stam class but still can reach the 30k game.

Biggest issue with magicka is the sustain. In sorc at least. It does required a better group setup then stamina base class. I never use grothdar or illandriss though.. Might help finish fight faster:). But still magicka light armor passive are pulling magicka class in a situation where group strat is more important. Using the undaunted bonus being more beneficial to magila user then stamina one

Sigtric · December 2016

Gal wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

The_Patriarch wrote: »

@TotallyNotVos

I'm totally not defending ZOS or anyone. Serious question: if a set (like Nerien'eth, per your example) is trash, doesn't that mean people are, for the most part, not using it? If so, how does a nerf change anything?

Because if only ilambris and grothdar were nerfed, they would be competing with the other monster helms. Some people already take the dps loss and use nerieneth and skoria for aesthetics etc.

But with all of them being nerfed, groth and ilambris are hardly going to be worth using over just plain stat boosting, and the helms that are already under performing are taking a hit as well making them even worse and making them see even less play. It makes no sense to me.

Someone a few pages back posted all of the damaging proc sets in the game. I have over 4K hours played and I have only seen a handful of them used in pvp or pve. A prime example is defending warrior. They just buffed it to heal based on damage done, it was already lackluster but now the heal is significantly nerfed since the damage can't crit.

As for the healing sets. Choke thorn, Bogdan and sentinel are already extremely obscure. Sentinel sees a little play because of the stam return but even that's lackluster. Now that their heals cannot crit, I do not see them being used for any purpose.

I know I keep repeating myself, but nerfing bad sets because a few are too strong is mind boggling.

It's not a nerf dude, it's a change of the mechanic. I don't know why you guys aren't getting it. ZOS decided they didn't like crits on that gear and that some sets could exploit it. You naming off a bunch of sets that are almost universally unused doesn't change the direction. If you want those specific sets buffed, say that, don't sit here and tell me the sky is falling when it rains.

It's a change in mechanic explicitly intended to make said mechanic weaker. That's pretty much the textbook definition of a nerf.

Let's assume 100 is base damage. That's the damage the devs have decided they want the players at to down content at the time they want the players to down it. Good builds and good players can get up to 120. Bad players down to 80.

They introduce proc sets. Lo! Someone discovers that proc sets stacking crit is a very easy way to push past 100, past 120, and land all the way at 140.

ZOS changing it isn't a "nerf", which is just a meaningless buzz term at this point in online gaming. (Right up there with "power creep") "Nerf" is dog whistle for "thing I don't like". They're altering the mechanics because it's giving power out of line with what's needed and what's acceptable, and it's causing a shift where the only real meta is proc stacking in both PvE and PvP.

It's broken. It's being fixed. I, and a lot of other people, are happy with it.

@SunfireKnight86 Have you ever experienced endgame content? Or have you ever gone into Cyrodil with a legitimate pvp build? Do you even have the brain power to understand the repercussions that this change will have on the game? First of all, preventing proc sets from critting will do absolutely nothing in pvp, any player worth a damn will be wearing inpen and have some cp into reduce crit damage taken. If a proc set doesn't crit in pvp, it will make no difference, you will still lose a massive amount of health and if its the widowmaker veli viper combo, you could even be oneshot regardless of crits.

Also, the only proc sets that are useful in pve are Velidreth Illambris Stormfist and Grothdarr but they aren't crutches for dps players. You need to learn to play in order to pull good dps, not put on one of those said monster helms and suddenly you're some OP player that's ready for content like vMoL HM. Now yes I will agree that they are very strong, but they essentially are what made magicka a desirable class again. I remember before the monster helms were added, I would show up for a guild raid and there would be like 6 stam dk dps and maybe 1 stamblade and a stamsorc. Almost nobody played magicka because it simply couldn't perform. Now, however, both classes can pull very comparable dps and both are used to the benefit of the raid in order to clear content as quickly and as easily as possible. Id recommend knowing what you are talking about before you base an entire argument.

Also I want to ask you, does me wearing grothdarr and moondancer (both sets that have some 'proc' element to them) does that make me a proctato following your meta? Cheers mate

If losing crit from procs on magicka characters makes them suddenly undesirable: the issues isn't proc crits. There are other things that need looking at here, which... is happening in U13

I wear Grothdarr on my mDK. I encounter this bug with her that sometimes Grothdarr just stops procing all together and I have to go unequip and re-equip to get it to work again.

During big pulls or fights, I don't take the time to do so, and... DK still performs with out it.

People already pulling good DPS, you're right, it is not a crutch. If taking the crit component off proc damage hurts to levels things are unplayable, it is a crutch. That could be poor character build. That could be poor player ability. That could be poor game design. Either way, crit on proc seems to be the magic force holding them up.

phbell · December 2016

WOW - PvP complains and PvE pays the price. This is a pattern that seems endless. Is there no concern for PvE trial and dungeon groups and the effect this has on their gaming experience?

I have a suggestion: Take a page from NASCAR and just make it so that everyone in PvP plays with the same base set of armor, enchantments, and proc sets. In this way every one has equality with only their individual skills to separate them.

This would solve many issues - chief among them being the ability to identify those using Cheat Engine. It would put a stop to the endless calls for nerfing every time one PvP player loses to another. Any future adjustments made to the gear would affect all PvP players equally. It is eminently the fairest approach and insulates PvE players from all the drama that PvP seems to continuously stir up.

To repeatedly degrade the gaming experience of the majority PvE players to quiet the complaining of the minority PvP is far more unfair than the problem it is trying to solve.

Dreyloch · December 2016

"PvPers want more things to spend AP on
We've been working on ways to add more things that you can purchase with AP. With Update 13, we are updating the PVP vendors in your home keeps and adding a new item - Zone Bags. These Zone Bags contain a set item from an overland zone and will scale to your level. For example: the Auridon Zone Bag will only have Queen's Elegance, Twin Sisters and Veiled Heritance item sets in it. The bags will cost 5K AP and always contain one green or blue quality item in them."

Yes Mr Dev. this is true. We do want things to spend AP on. However, if I'm reading this correctly. This has got to be the most horrible RNG based way to get any item in the entire game. Please at least consider doing individual bags for each set type. To lump them all into one "zone bag" like that will make it so:

1) No one could ever complete a set of any kind. 1 set of any sort is hard enough with RNG to get the pieces and traits you want. Now times that by 3? I pray it's suddenly April fool's day. I seriously do. Unless weapons only come in sharpened/defensive/powered from these bags...unless the armor only comes in Impen or infused (for those that like more stat pools). Then these bags are a total waste of anyone's time and AP.
2) Green or blue only? This matters when it comes to jewelry. Armor, not so much. I'd rather wait till the end of time for Gold bling and have enough AP to buy a couple sets of it off the weekly vendor, then to use AP on this stupidity.

So, please. Don't even bother putting things into the game for us PvP'ers if this is what your brain trust is coming up with. FYI, no one is buying the 50k AP bags as it is. They are garbage sets for the most part. If I would suggest anything, it'd be to make those bags cost 5k AP.

Sigtric · December 2016

Dreyloch wrote: »

"PvPers want more things to spend AP on
We've been working on ways to add more things that you can purchase with AP. With Update 13, we are updating the PVP vendors in your home keeps and adding a new item - Zone Bags. These Zone Bags contain a set item from an overland zone and will scale to your level. For example: the Auridon Zone Bag will only have Queen's Elegance, Twin Sisters and Veiled Heritance item sets in it. The bags will cost 5K AP and always contain one green or blue quality item in them."

Yes Mr Dev. this is true. We do want things to spend AP on. However, if I'm reading this correctly. This has got to be the most horrible RNG based way to get any item in the entire game. Please at least consider doing individual bags for each set type. To lump them all into one "zone bag" like that will make it so:

1) No one could ever complete a set of any kind. 1 set of any sort is hard enough with RNG to get the pieces and traits you want. Now times that by 3? I pray it's suddenly April fool's day. I seriously do. Unless weapons only come in sharpened/defensive/powered from these bags...unless the armor only comes in Impen or infused (for those that like more stat pools). Then these bags are a total waste of anyone's time and AP.
2) Green or blue only? This matters when it comes to jewelry. Armor, not so much. I'd rather wait till the end of time for Gold bling and have enough AP to buy a couple sets of it off the weekly vendor, then to use AP on this stupidity.

So, please. Don't even bother putting things into the game for us PvP'ers if this is what your brain trust is coming up with. FYI, no one is buying the 50k AP bags as it is. They are garbage sets for the most part. If I would suggest anything, it'd be to make those bags cost 5k AP.

On the other hand

I have a bit of AP that is just sitting there with nothing to spend it on and several set items that I need, that after countless hours of farming I've still not obtained, so I'll be throwing some AP at the zone bags to add to my chances of getting what I want.

Darnathian · December 2016

DPShiro wrote: »

And once again PVE players are affected by the whining PVP players because reasons.

CAN YOU PLEASE KEEP THIS CRAP IN PVP AND LEAVE PVE ALONE!!

Your making yorself look ignorant. No pvper asked for this. There are quite a few threads asking to allow only one proc. Quite a few of those that said not to do it for pve as we recognize that this crowd would be mad it would take them 2 seconds longer to kill the computer.

Reco · December 2016

WTF? Why do you nerf PVE burst damage? There is already a cooldown on all of those extra procs. Fix PVP, leave PVE alone FFS.

melloni_aleb16_ESO · December 2016

" and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list "

i expect :

- decent fix stam proc build ( not this ) , only one active offensive proc
- rebalance mist form ( it must be to run away , mobility , not to tank ) from 75% to 30/40 %
- rebalance destro ulti staff
- rebalance inc. strike or another morph , 50 ultimate is ridicoulous or 50 ultimate but remove healing debuff , major defile and stun ( according to the morph obviously )
- remove critical strike 100% for hidden
- correct the bug when you are on mount and Crippling gasp or fear hit you , break free not working
- no buff DK magicka , superman already exists
- rebalance heavy armour , it for tank non DPS . When you wear 5 piece HA your effective damage decreased x valor ( 25 % ? ) and your resistance increases x valor . for stamina dps need Medium , for magicka dps need light.
- rebalance tremor scale ( It is the most embarrassing Set )
- armour abilities as Shufffle , immovable or annulment ( and concerning morphs ) can be used only with a full set with relative armour ( ex : shuffle only with medium armour )

this is only 10% of what you should do ...rebalanced the game and only then insert new contents.
For now the pvp is just stam proc build ( with Nb is incommentable ) and ultimate destru staff spam

my 2 cent

Clarkieson · December 2016

Another day of outrage from the majority, and another day that zos just dont give a f about you or your opinions

If our names were sypher or fengrush or alcast, they might listen

All hail the minority who have just f'd our game

Three cheeres for the youtube cry babies

Hip hip hooray

UppGRAYxDD · December 2016

Clarkieson · December 2016

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Looooooool

And still zos dont give a f

Koensol · December 2016

phbell wrote: »

WOW - PvP complains and PvE pays the price.

I'm getting so tired of comments like these.

Conclusion made by angry player: "ZOS nerfed this because of the PvP whine. And because we didn't ask for it to also be nerfed in PvE, ZOS is making PvE players pay for the whining of PvP players."

Let me break down why that is just an utter fallacy. There are a couple of false assumptions made before people arrive to that conclusion:
1. "Because we didn't ask for a nerf in PvE, it doesn't need to be nerfed." FALSE. Players aren't the ones who decide what needs to be nerfed and what doesn't. They have a voice, but are not an authority.
2. "Because there wasn't any complaining, it was balanced." FALSE. Simple case of an everything that isn't a disadvantage to me is fine kind of mentality.
3. "ZOS bases their decisions solely on forum whine." FALSE. Do you people really think ZOS doesn't do any research of their own, or that they don't play their own game?
4. "PvE dps will suffer significantly under this change." FALSE until proven. We haven't seen the rest of the patch notes and balance changes. There are so many factors to balance.

Please, get this stupid mentality out of your minds. Why do you think there is no complaining about incredible dps in PvE? Do I really have to spell out that there is no other party that is victimized by those big numbers? PvE mobs can hardly complain, now can they?

These kind of comments are so *** ridiculous, it is killing me. Please think before posting. All of the constructive, logically sound feedback and expressions of genuine concern get completely drowned in the simplified bs and exaggerated nonsense that we see all over the forums right now.

ZoM_Head · December 2016

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

User_Name wrote: »

When you meet a Tremorscale tank player on PS4 at least, chances are he will only spam Pierce Armor and nothing else, and actually have moderate success with that strategy since a lot of players min/max and forget to focus on defensive attributes of their build. A lot of NB's wont even slot Fear and just rely on one-/two-shotting mechanics even as defense, because it works.

You can't seriously say that proc damage set builds takes time to learn to play or that it is somehow skillful. Yes, there are super good players that have taken up proc sets too and are very dangerous, but they'd also be really dangerous if they didn't use these sets.

The proc damage sets are a crutch, simple as, and the discussions on the subject proves it: Some players are trying to make the case that PVE content will be near impossible to complete without crits from proc damage sets, but having played since release when these sets weren't in the game, I can testify that this is absolutely false.

Thank you! This thread reminds me of the vampire ult DK spam builds on launch that could kill raid groups worth of PvP players in seconds. The same sort of people were on the forums making the same sort of arguments. "It'll ruin PvE! Working as intended! I'll quit!" The same people had the same level of "skill" which is why they got stomped after that change was made and they didn't have a cookie cutter build to fall back on anymore.

I suspect half of them are PvP players who don't want their "I win" toys taken away. And even if they're not, they're PvE players crying for the same reason.

We never said "it will be nearly impossible to complete PvE content without crits from proc sets", we are stating that it will effect PvE hard, when you have Skoria dealing 12K base damage and nearly 27K dmg with group buffs, that is incredible.

Same thing with Grothdarr, Llambris and Kraghs sets. Sets that are hardly used in PvP and if they are they are not causing issues, serious ones anyways when compared to the combination of Selene(Or Velindreth)/Widowmaker/Viper setup.

As i stated, there is a very specific combo for PvP that needs a look at, why should all proc sets, PvE and PvP take a hit because of this specific combo? In my opinion it is not a valid solution at all. Trails, Dungeons, vDSA vMSA, and generally all PvE magicka builds will suffer the most from this (some stamina PvE builds as well but not as much as Magicka Builds).

So, in summary, your "I win" button is being taken away. Exactly like I just said. By your own admission an insane amount of damage is coming from one source. A source so common that it's the meta and everyone and their mother is running it. But that's "working as intended" to you people. Steamrolling content is "working as intended". lol

It was never "i win" button at all, why are you so focused that we "rely" on proc sets in pve to "win" everything?I said it will EFFECT PvE HARD. In PvE we run ONE proc set that the game is heavily basing us to focus on crit and crit damage + group buffs to push that even further. You take away that one proc set from PvE you can see how DPS will be hit by this change of no crits from proc sets. PvE Trails have bosses with 60-80 million health, so you can see how PvE requires to build around high crit and crit damage.

Yet again, you didnt mention how players are running THREE proc sets in PvP, and specificially the problem lies with a specific combination of proc sets that is causing large burst damage with one light attack (Proccing Velindreth/Selene, Widowmaker and Viper by pressing ONE button), yet you call PvE "i win" button? what is that then? when in PvP you can proc THREE sets + a poison with a light attack? Why should PvE running ONE proc set that is relying on crit be hit with this, when the majority if not all the problems is casued in PvP by running sets never used in PvE?

So much for the "i win" button, PvP has had this since Shadows of the Hist update, specifically the stamina NB builds.

Sigtric · December 2016

Koensol wrote: »

phbell wrote: »

WOW - PvP complains and PvE pays the price.

I'm getting so tired of comments like these.

Conclusion made by angry player: "ZOS nerfed this because of the PvP whine. And because we didn't ask for it to also be nerfed in PvE, ZOS is making PvE players pay for the whining of PvP players."

Let me break down why that is just an utter fallacy. There are a couple of false assumptions made before people arrive to that conclusion:
1. "Because we didn't ask for a nerf in PvE, it doesn't need to be nerfed." FALSE. Players aren't the ones who decide what needs to be nerfed and what doesn't. They have a voice, but are not an authority.
2. "Because there wasn't any complaining, it was balanced." FALSE. Simple case of an everything that isn't a disadvantage to me is fine kind of mentality.
3. "ZOS bases their decisions solely on forum whine." FALSE. Do you people really think ZOS doesn't do any research of their own, or that they don't play their own game?
4. "PvE dps will suffer significantly under this change." FALSE until proven. We haven't seen the rest of the patch notes and balance changes. There are so many factors to balance.

Please, get this stupid mentality out of your minds. Why do you think there is no complaining about incredible dps in PvE? Do I really have to spell out that there is no other party that is victimized by those big numbers? PvE mobs can hardly complain, now can they?

These kind of comments are so *** ridiculous, it is killing me. Please think before posting. All of the constructive, logically sound feedback and expressions of genuine concern get completely drowned in the simplified bs and exaggerated nonsense that we see all over the forums right now.

I wish forum whine actually worked.

I'd be riding around on a Red Pit Wolf and the Great Elk, and have the Frostcaster motif.

Uriel_Nocturne · December 2016

Yeah, that Great Elk cost was absurd... 4500 Crowns ($50 USD package of Crowns) for a VANITY Mount!?

Absolutely ridiculous.

Clarkieson · December 2016

Koensol wrote: »

phbell wrote: »

WOW - PvP complains and PvE pays the price.

I'm getting so tired of comments like these.

Conclusion made by angry player: "ZOS nerfed this because of the PvP whine. And because we didn't ask for it to also be nerfed in PvE, ZOS is making PvE players pay for the whining of PvP players."

Let me break down why that is just an utter fallacy. There are a couple of false assumptions made before people arrive to that conclusion:
1. "Because we didn't ask for a nerf in PvE, it doesn't need to be nerfed." FALSE. Players aren't the ones who decide what needs to be nerfed and what doesn't. They have a voice, but are not an authority.
2. "Because there wasn't any complaining, it was balanced." FALSE. Simple case of an everything that isn't a disadvantage to me is fine kind of mentality.
3. "ZOS bases their decisions solely on forum whine." FALSE. Do you people really think ZOS doesn't do any research of their own, or that they don't play their own game?
4. "PvE dps will suffer significantly under this change." FALSE until proven. We haven't seen the rest of the patch notes and balance changes. There are so many factors to balance.

Please, get this stupid mentality out of your minds. Why do you think there is no complaining about incredible dps in PvE? Do I really have to spell out that there is no other party that is victimized by those big numbers? PvE mobs can hardly complain, now can they?

These kind of comments are so *** ridiculous, it is killing me. Please think before posting. All of the constructive, logically sound feedback and expressions of genuine concern get completely drowned in the simplified bs and exaggerated nonsense that we see all over the forums right now.

While this is true, all the evidence points to zenimax doing exactly what youtubers tell them to do

Look at who they get on these eso live sessions, its not you or me is it?

The main thing here is that pve does in no way need a nerf. Go and do some random daily dungeons and you will find players who really really struggle with tanking, with healing and with dps

Experienced players can see this straight away that some players do need some op gear to succeed.

We can all agree that pvp is not right atm. Zos seem to be pulling in 2 different directions when it comes to pvp.
They claim that cyrodiil is a 3 way war between alliances. 3 armies fighting over emperorship and at the same time they want to give solo players almighty power and not get rolled over by an army.

Well that makes no sense, zenimax either want alliance versus alliance or they want people in god mode where one person can wipe a zerg

The problems come when you have a whole zerg of people in god mode, so naturally zos solve this problem by flat nerfing the entire game

Wtf is that all about? Ok so you can be op in pve so what? Who cares? Its fun to melt monsters its what pve is all about, and even with these op sets some people still struggle with pvp content

How many people can claim to have done a veteran trail? Vmsa? Vdsa? A minority of pve players.

Zenimax are missing the point in a massive way but they just dont want to invest the time, money and effort in fixing the real problem which is pvp

Not cost effective at the end of the day and eventually players will get sick of it and just leave the game and it the holy crown store will lose out on customers

Gg zenimax

Strider_Roshin · December 2016

I like how no one is considering the possibility that this nerf to proc sets is in response to PvE just as much as PvP.

Clarkieson · December 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I like how no one is considering the possibility that this nerf to proc sets is in response to PvE just as much as PvP.

Because getting the flawless conquer title is too easy?

Becuase getting the dromathra destroyer title is too easy?

Uriel_Nocturne · December 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I like how no one is considering the possibility that this nerf to proc sets is in response to PvE just as much as PvP.

1) It's not.
2) I would like an explanation of how Proc'ing Damage/Healing off of a Set in PvE was ever a problem.

Sigtric · December 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I like how no one is considering the possibility that this nerf to proc sets is in response to PvE just as much as PvP.

Oh there are people considering that, it's just being pushed under by the high pitched crying going on.

ZoM_Head · December 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Global cooldown on proc sets seems to be much better idea. It will stop proc set abusing and oneshot builds without screwing capabilities of monster sets in pve.

If ZOS adds a global cooldown for procs or decreased the chance a proc would fire off, wouldn't that also decrease DPS? You might still have a higher DPS output with ZOS's current proposed change (no crit, but no change to proc chance itself) than any cooldown.

Is it even possible what the hardcore PvEers are asking? Make all the changes to proc sets only affect PvP zones and leave PvE zones alone?

What about when dueling in PvE zones? Do we need to connect IBM Watson to the mega server?

Are you aware, that the only proc sets used in PvE are the Monster Sets? And even then its Grothdarr, LLambris and Kragh's sets, sets that are not really the issue in PvP?

Are you Also aware, that sets such as Velindreth, Viper, Selene and Widowmaker are not used in competitive trails? There are no similar sets for Magicka builds, meaning there are no 5 piece magicka sets that proc once every 4 seconds like viper, nothing similar to widowmaker and nothing hard hitting as Velindreth and Viper? Valkyn can not be compared due to it proccing from applying a DOT, the low proc chance and the cooldown?

Yet PvE is getting hit with this planned crit change, while all alone it is the stamiina proc sets (specific ones) that are causing the issues....

No I was not aware. Are you aware that everyone PvE'd and lived before the era of proc sets? Are you aware PvE always (generally speaking) was in a much better place than PvP was in ESO? Are you aware that all the uproar over this proposed change to proc sets is actually not that PvE quality of life will collapse into an abyss? You must be aware it's players just complaining that they want things to stay the same for the sake of things staying the same correct? Are you aware this whole thread Mr. Lambert started was just a tiny "sneak peak" of what's to come? Are you aware no one else knows what the other game balance changes coming are, in order to factor into the discussion of "omg PvE is toast like Casper the friendly ghost!"?

Are you aware of the change causing a slight change to sustain as Mr. Lambert stated and a large change to burst? Are you aware that only means spending a couple of more minutes time as top shelf builds still sit there and pound mobs and bosses into dust as they always have?

Did you know when proc sets were introduced, we were still without Champion points? did you also know that mDKs were using crushing shock in their build since whip was not scaling correctly? As well as we were still revolving around precise weapons and crit instead of penetration? mDKs were using crushing shock in their rotation, since it was scaling in funny way from max magicka and weapon dmg and spell crit?

You guys are making me repeat myself, its a specific setup designed and executed by stamina nightblades that is causing the issue here, a setup never or hardly used in PvE, why should PvE get effected by that? Do you PvE at all? If you did, competitively you woudl see my argument.

Clarkieson · December 2016

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Global cooldown on proc sets seems to be much better idea. It will stop proc set abusing and oneshot builds without screwing capabilities of monster sets in pve.

If ZOS adds a global cooldown for procs or decreased the chance a proc would fire off, wouldn't that also decrease DPS? You might still have a higher DPS output with ZOS's current proposed change (no crit, but no change to proc chance itself) than any cooldown.

Is it even possible what the hardcore PvEers are asking? Make all the changes to proc sets only affect PvP zones and leave PvE zones alone?

What about when dueling in PvE zones? Do we need to connect IBM Watson to the mega server?

Are you aware, that the only proc sets used in PvE are the Monster Sets? And even then its Grothdarr, LLambris and Kragh's sets, sets that are not really the issue in PvP?

Are you Also aware, that sets such as Velindreth, Viper, Selene and Widowmaker are not used in competitive trails? There are no similar sets for Magicka builds, meaning there are no 5 piece magicka sets that proc once every 4 seconds like viper, nothing similar to widowmaker and nothing hard hitting as Velindreth and Viper? Valkyn can not be compared due to it proccing from applying a DOT, the low proc chance and the cooldown?

Yet PvE is getting hit with this planned crit change, while all alone it is the stamiina proc sets (specific ones) that are causing the issues....

No I was not aware. Are you aware that everyone PvE'd and lived before the era of proc sets? Are you aware PvE always (generally speaking) was in a much better place than PvP was in ESO? Are you aware that all the uproar over this proposed change to proc sets is actually not that PvE quality of life will collapse into an abyss? You must be aware it's players just complaining that they want things to stay the same for the sake of things staying the same correct? Are you aware this whole thread Mr. Lambert started was just a tiny "sneak peak" of what's to come? Are you aware no one else knows what the other game balance changes coming are, in order to factor into the discussion of "omg PvE is toast like Casper the friendly ghost!"?

Are you aware of the change causing a slight change to sustain as Mr. Lambert stated and a large change to burst? Are you aware that only means spending a couple of more minutes time as top shelf builds still sit there and pound mobs and bosses into dust as they always have?

Did you know when proc sets were introduced, we were still without Champion points? did you also know that mDKs were using crushing shock in their build since whip was not scaling correctly? As well as we were still revolving around precise weapons and crit instead of penetration? mDKs were using crushing shock in their rotation, since it was scaling in funny way from max magicka and weapon dmg and spell crit?

You guys are making me repeat myself, its a specific setup designed and executed by stamina nightblades that is causing the issue here, a setup never or hardly used in PvE, why should PvE get effected by that? Do you PvE at all? If you did, competitively you woudl see my argument.

Lol stamina nightblades

Incapacitating strike needs an increse to its cost, 200 ultimate and fear needs nerfing to the ground

Thelon · December 2016

Clarkieson wrote: »

Three cheeres for the youtube cry babies

f047ys3v3n · December 2016

Paneross wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

For once in the life #ZOS please listen to the PVE players and leave us alone in peace. We dont need the PVP changes... PVP ers do but we not. We already losed too much thanks to keep alive the laggy pvp...

Stop saying we. Because it's not true. Plenty of PvE players wants this and or don't care.

Yea, I don't care, I play mostly a mag NB and because of ZOS quality of understanding of how mag NB's dps works I didn't get a useful set anyhow. Part of me says ha, not so shiny now without your llambris mr magica sorc welcome back to my world.

On the other hand, the change is the utter definition of stupid. Because it is crit, and crit doesn't matter in PVP they will not fix the problem they claim to address. The change hits all proc sets equally and both magica and stamina when it is only about roughly 4 sets, all stamina, that are causing their particular problem. The change really hits 80% garbage sets since few proc sets are worth anything. The change, by being a crit change and not a base damage change, makes a mess of trying to figure builds out. The change, by hitting the new principle mag dps sets, llambris and grothdar, but not the principle stam one, krags, will push stam dps further in front, a direction that it did not appear ZOS was going.

Like I said though, it is good for me since I didn't get a nice proc set anyway. Still stupid.

Oh, if the change really is about PVE stam vs mag balance and ZOS are trying to get groups to the point that they are half stam and half mag let me try to to disavow them of this goal. Because stam and mag buffs in group are often different. Shards, repent, etc for stam and eled, balls, worm, etc. for mag, top groups will be likely to always try to be almost solely one or the other as it takes a lot of pressure off of the support roles and requires fewer buff sets to be worn. Re-balancing the dps will only change which type the groups are made of, not get them to mix. And ZOS should be aware by now that most endgame raiders prefer mag to be stronger or at lest equal. Even at a little dps loss they, and I, tend to go magica if it is at all viable. We like the versatility of our mag toons and the far greater differences between the mag classes. We also like a bit of a range option as it opens up far more potential strategies. Mag is much more fun to play in PVE. It probably would be in PVP as well if it were at all viable but the better cc's, massively greater burst damage, better sets, and general harder hit per skill cast make this a non-starter.

Clarkieson · December 2016

Thelon wrote: »

Clarkieson wrote: »

Three cheeres for the youtube cry babies

You ought to know mr youtuber, i was bending over to mop up your floods of tears and boom! Didnt even see it coming

Paneross · December 2016

Clarkieson wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Global cooldown on proc sets seems to be much better idea. It will stop proc set abusing and oneshot builds without screwing capabilities of monster sets in pve.

If ZOS adds a global cooldown for procs or decreased the chance a proc would fire off, wouldn't that also decrease DPS? You might still have a higher DPS output with ZOS's current proposed change (no crit, but no change to proc chance itself) than any cooldown.

Is it even possible what the hardcore PvEers are asking? Make all the changes to proc sets only affect PvP zones and leave PvE zones alone?

What about when dueling in PvE zones? Do we need to connect IBM Watson to the mega server?

Are you aware, that the only proc sets used in PvE are the Monster Sets? And even then its Grothdarr, LLambris and Kragh's sets, sets that are not really the issue in PvP?

Are you Also aware, that sets such as Velindreth, Viper, Selene and Widowmaker are not used in competitive trails? There are no similar sets for Magicka builds, meaning there are no 5 piece magicka sets that proc once every 4 seconds like viper, nothing similar to widowmaker and nothing hard hitting as Velindreth and Viper? Valkyn can not be compared due to it proccing from applying a DOT, the low proc chance and the cooldown?

Yet PvE is getting hit with this planned crit change, while all alone it is the stamiina proc sets (specific ones) that are causing the issues....

No I was not aware. Are you aware that everyone PvE'd and lived before the era of proc sets? Are you aware PvE always (generally speaking) was in a much better place than PvP was in ESO? Are you aware that all the uproar over this proposed change to proc sets is actually not that PvE quality of life will collapse into an abyss? You must be aware it's players just complaining that they want things to stay the same for the sake of things staying the same correct? Are you aware this whole thread Mr. Lambert started was just a tiny "sneak peak" of what's to come? Are you aware no one else knows what the other game balance changes coming are, in order to factor into the discussion of "omg PvE is toast like Casper the friendly ghost!"?

Are you aware of the change causing a slight change to sustain as Mr. Lambert stated and a large change to burst? Are you aware that only means spending a couple of more minutes time as top shelf builds still sit there and pound mobs and bosses into dust as they always have?

Did you know when proc sets were introduced, we were still without Champion points? did you also know that mDKs were using crushing shock in their build since whip was not scaling correctly? As well as we were still revolving around precise weapons and crit instead of penetration? mDKs were using crushing shock in their rotation, since it was scaling in funny way from max magicka and weapon dmg and spell crit?

You guys are making me repeat myself, its a specific setup designed and executed by stamina nightblades that is causing the issue here, a setup never or hardly used in PvE, why should PvE get effected by that? Do you PvE at all? If you did, competitively you woudl see my argument.

Lol stamina nightblades

Incapacitating strike needs an increse to its cost, 200 ultimate and fear needs nerfing to the ground

Indeed.

mr_wazzabi · December 2016

Please leave PVE dps alone. Proc set crit nerf should apply in pvp ONLY!

Publius_Scipio · December 2016

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Global cooldown on proc sets seems to be much better idea. It will stop proc set abusing and oneshot builds without screwing capabilities of monster sets in pve.

If ZOS adds a global cooldown for procs or decreased the chance a proc would fire off, wouldn't that also decrease DPS? You might still have a higher DPS output with ZOS's current proposed change (no crit, but no change to proc chance itself) than any cooldown.

Is it even possible what the hardcore PvEers are asking? Make all the changes to proc sets only affect PvP zones and leave PvE zones alone?

What about when dueling in PvE zones? Do we need to connect IBM Watson to the mega server?

Are you aware, that the only proc sets used in PvE are the Monster Sets? And even then its Grothdarr, LLambris and Kragh's sets, sets that are not really the issue in PvP?

Are you Also aware, that sets such as Velindreth, Viper, Selene and Widowmaker are not used in competitive trails? There are no similar sets for Magicka builds, meaning there are no 5 piece magicka sets that proc once every 4 seconds like viper, nothing similar to widowmaker and nothing hard hitting as Velindreth and Viper? Valkyn can not be compared due to it proccing from applying a DOT, the low proc chance and the cooldown?

Yet PvE is getting hit with this planned crit change, while all alone it is the stamiina proc sets (specific ones) that are causing the issues....

No I was not aware. Are you aware that everyone PvE'd and lived before the era of proc sets? Are you aware PvE always (generally speaking) was in a much better place than PvP was in ESO? Are you aware that all the uproar over this proposed change to proc sets is actually not that PvE quality of life will collapse into an abyss? You must be aware it's players just complaining that they want things to stay the same for the sake of things staying the same correct? Are you aware this whole thread Mr. Lambert started was just a tiny "sneak peak" of what's to come? Are you aware no one else knows what the other game balance changes coming are, in order to factor into the discussion of "omg PvE is toast like Casper the friendly ghost!"?

Are you aware of the change causing a slight change to sustain as Mr. Lambert stated and a large change to burst? Are you aware that only means spending a couple of more minutes time as top shelf builds still sit there and pound mobs and bosses into dust as they always have?

Did you know when proc sets were introduced, we were still without Champion points? did you also know that mDKs were using crushing shock in their build since whip was not scaling correctly? As well as we were still revolving around precise weapons and crit instead of penetration? mDKs were using crushing shock in their rotation, since it was scaling in funny way from max magicka and weapon dmg and spell crit?

You guys are making me repeat myself, its a specific setup designed and executed by stamina nightblades that is causing the issue here, a setup never or hardly used in PvE, why should PvE get effected by that? Do you PvE at all? If you did, competitively you woudl see my argument.

I don't know why you think it's NB. There are unkillable tanks that require 5+ to take down in many encounters. Destro ult storm clouds all over. Infernal guardian magically targeting those that are stealthed. Viper procing on ranged attacks and double procing, etc.

Why NB? ZOS wants to make a change to see if they can swing the pace of the game how they would like too see it hopefully. You are arguing about something that literally means you just need a minute or two more to kill a boss because the only thing affected is crit chance of the proc.

There is no scenario with what ZOS is proposing that would sink PvE. Literally nothing changes but the burst that you seem to treasure so much.