Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

Stridig

So many people in here saying PvPers can just wear impen to mitigate crit damage. We wear impen because we HAVE to wear impen. So a whole community within this game is forced to wear a certain trait so another community within this game can brag about zero death speed runs. Sounds fair to me.

Clarkieson

tonemd wrote: »

AlienSlof wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Once again a bad change on the proc sets to try and make PvP happy. The burst is fine when fightning mobs with millions of health or that one shot or nearly one shot players. This should had either been left alone or figured out a way to turn the crit off while in Cyrodiil only.

You will never be able to balance PvE items in PvP settings it's impossible stop trying to do so, and just make items and skills that can only be used in PvE or PvP content.

^ This. ^

Yet again, PvPers cry a river and get stuff nerfed. Just turning off the crit in Cyrodiil would have sorted it. I was enjoying my Ilambris set.

I would not mind suppressing crit in cyro. It would waste traits in a lot of sets but most of the 5 piece bonuses will still apply.

The problem is that means TTK goes way up and the servers do not seems to handle large protracted battles well.

Another concern on these partial patch notes, reducing the effectiveness of the 12 man ball groups and not punishing the 60+ man zergs does not seem like a wise solution if your aim is to get people to spread out.Seems like your just promoting more faction stacking.

You already get entire server populations balling up, removing aoe caps will solve nothing

Zergs in a alliance versus alliance war, seem pretty normal, then zos consult the 1vx ers about how to make 1vx ing better. They dont know what they are doing.

Poor streamers, they only have the interests of their channel and viewers in mind and they dont care about the game. Look at the videos these guys post and it tells you that they cry nerf because they want to be "the man" in eso.

The pve nerf cryers dont want other players getting the good scores in the trials because it threatens their "world record" scores, they are acting like spoiled children "i can have my cookies but no one else can becuase im selfish"

Its even more comedy because zos are acting like the single parent tryng to passify these screaming babies

More lols await

Elsonso

Digerati wrote: »

Slylok wrote: »

I am sorry but disabling crits on proc sets in PvE is not the right thing to do. As I am sure many have pointed out by now that crit damage is very important in PvE.

1 ) Leave as is in PvE
2 ) Once entering Cyrodil disable gear gotten outside of Cyrodil and vice versa as well
3 ) Create Cyordil ONLY gear
4 ) Put beginner gear on an NPC at the zone ins bought for gold
5 ) New Gear is bought with AP / TV

Boom. Done.

I just saved you a headache ZOS for free.

Worst idea ever. Rift is a failure of a game because of the disconnect between PvP and PvE life.

What they need to do is make it so everything in the game is acquirable in Cyrodiil so PvPers can be exclusive.

As much as they might not want to be, it is good for the PVPers to get out and see the world.

Clarkieson

Stridig wrote: »

So many people in here saying PvPers can just wear impen to mitigate crit damage. We wear impen because we HAVE to wear impen. So a whole community within this game is forced to wear a certain trait so another community within this game can brag about zero death speed runs. Sounds fair to me.

And pve players have to wear divines trait gear

Whats your point?

Dagoth_Rac

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Inb4 people realize that wearing 2 pce Llambris, Kragh, or Velidreth is stiil excessively better than wearing a crafted two piece set.

Replacing Ilambris or Grothdarr with 2 pieces of Torug will of course not be as good as Ilambris/Grothdarr, even with no crit. But that is not the only option. Dropping the monster set will allow for wearing two 5-piece sets, which may very well be better than a no-crit monster set. It is really a question of whether the nerfed monster 2-piece bonus is better than a second 5-piece bonus like Burning Spellweave or Twice-Born Star or Moondancer. If not, pledges no longer drop BiS gear and you really hurt one of the main group PvE activities in the game. Are people really going to want to do pledges for the chance to get bound subpar gear?

Shinkhan

OHHHH NICE !! SO THNX FOR NERFING YOUR TEMPLARS AND STAM SORCs !! OHH WAIT NOO YOU CANT, BECAUSE ITS THE CLASSES YOU GUYS FROM ZOS ARE PLAYING IN PVP WITH YOUR SERG IM SORRY.
WE ARE PAYING YOU NOT TO HAVE A GAME FOR YOU GUYS BUT FOR EVERYONE !! AND ARE YOU SOO BAD THAT YOU CANT EVEN NERF SOMTHING ONLY FOR PVP ? OHH NO WAIT YOU GUYS DID IT ALREADY BY NERFING THE MAGIKA SORC, YOU GUYS NERFED THE SHIELDS "TWICE" !!
BUT ITS OK WE SHOULD BE HAPPY BECAUSE YOU ARE NERFING THE STAMINA ALSO IN PVE !! OHH NOOO WAIT THE FREAKING KRAGH SET WILL STILL DO THE SAME PENETRATION.

WE DONT NEED TO TELL YOU WHAT YOU NEED T DO CUZ YOU GUYS ALREADY KNOW THAT ! YOU ARE MAKING A GAME ONLY FOR YOU AND NOT FOR THE COMUNITY AND ONE DAY YOU WILL FIND YOURSELFS ALONE IN YOUR GAME.

Loc2262

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

It is really a question of whether the nerfed monster 2-piece bonus is better than a second 5-piece bonus like Burning Spellweave or Twice-Born Star or Moondancer. If not, pledges no longer drop BiS gear and you really hurt one of the main group PvE activities in the game.

Very much this!

Also, if you use dual wield or sword+shield, you can have two 5-piece sets plus monster set. Which is what my stamblade and stamsorc have. So in that case, you get nerfed anyway with no alternative. (Replacing the monster set with a three-piece jewelry set means you'd only have 4 pieces of one of your sets.)

Clarkieson

Shinkhan wrote: »

OHHHH NICE !! SO THNX FOR NERFING YOUR TEMPLARS AND STAM SORCs !! OHH WAIT NOO YOU CANT, BECAUSE ITS THE CLASSES YOU GUYS FROM ZOS ARE PLAYING IN PVP WITH YOUR SERG IM SORRY.
WE ARE PAYING YOU NOT TO HAVE A GAME FOR YOU GUYS BUT FOR EVERYONE !! AND ARE YOU SOO BAD THAT YOU CANT EVEN NERF SOMTHING ONLY FOR PVP ? OHH NO WAIT YOU GUYS DID IT ALREADY BY NERFING THE MAGIKA SORC, YOU GUYS NERFED THE SHIELDS "TWICE" !!
BUT ITS OK WE SHOULD BE HAPPY BECAUSE YOU ARE NERFING THE STAMINA ALSO IN PVE !! OHH NOOO WAIT THE FREAKING KRAGH SET WILL STILL DO THE SAME PENETRATION.

WE DONT NEED TO TELL YOU WHAT YOU NEED T DO CUZ YOU GUYS ALREADY KNOW THAT ! YOU ARE MAKING A GAME ONLY FOR YOU AND NOT FOR THE COMUNITY AND ONE DAY YOU WILL FIND YOURSELFS ALONE IN YOUR GAME.

You know there is a lot of truth in this comment

Patouf

^ Even jesus beam does not blind me like your text does ^

Abeille

I hit the road for a few days and everything happens

Clarkieson

Patouf wrote: »

^ Even jesus beam does not blind me like your text does ^

Lol

But that person is just one more angry voice that zenimax wont give a f about

worsttankever

Hi @ZOS_RichLambert ! Just want to say - I appreciate the sneak peek! There's been a lot of discussion in the forums (as you can surely tell), and people are looking for a solution to "proc sets" being the defining damage mechanic in PVP.

I like the incremental approach you are pursuing with procs not critting.

I'm also hoping to hear some good news for crafters. What I most want to see is *crafted jewelry*. I love theorycrafting using crafted sets, as I prefer crafting to farming. But with 3 slots (jewelry) unusable by crafters, I almost always have to farm a set in addition. This is more frustrating for my low level alts, who outlevel their gear very quickly.

SunfireKnight86

"Blanket fixes hurt everyone! Remove crit from PvP instead!

Just accept that you're going to have to learn your rotations when you aren't doubling the damage from procs 3 times every 6 seconds and move on. It was a broken mechanic. Period. Way stronger than it should have been. This brings it more in line with other items, skills, and abilities. One mechanic should not have ruled the entire PvE meta.

Every piece of content in this game is still easily doable, even off meta. Stop crying because you don't get to be overpowered for the price of farming two weeks worth of dailies.

Stridig

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"Blanket fixes hurt everyone! Remove crit from PvP instead!

Just accept that you're going to have to learn your rotations when you aren't doubling the damage from procs 3 times every 6 seconds and move on. It was a broken mechanic. Period. Way stronger than it should have been. This brings it more in line with other items, skills, and abilities. One mechanic should not have ruled the entire PvE meta.

Every piece of content in this game is still easily doable, even off meta. Stop crying because you don't get to be overpowered for the price of farming two weeks worth of dailies.

I would actually be fine with crits being removed from PvP.

Izaki

@ginoboehm you just got rekt by Rich mate. The 8% DPS loss was with 3 proc sets and without proper trials gear. That means that the difference with be barely noticeable in PvE with just 1 proc set. So I'm not entirely happy either about this change, but there's no point in crying before the full patch notes are released. Plus I'm pretty sure that the proc sets were over performing even in PvE. When you see that Ilambris or Grothdarr pulls as much DPS as Velocious Curse (~4k) you start to question things. So wait for the patch notes before saying that ZOS wasted a patch, etc.

Doctordarkspawn

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"Blanket fixes hurt everyone! Remove crit from PvP instead!

Just accept that you're going to have to learn your rotations when you aren't doubling the damage from procs 3 times every 6 seconds and move on. It was a broken mechanic. Period. Way stronger than it should have been. This brings it more in line with other items, skills, and abilities. One mechanic should not have ruled the entire PvE meta.

Every piece of content in this game is still easily doable, even off meta. Stop crying because you don't get to be overpowered for the price of farming two weeks worth of dailies.

I'd be fine with removing crits from PVP.

technohic

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"Blanket fixes hurt everyone! Remove crit from PvP instead!

Just accept that you're going to have to learn your rotations when you aren't doubling the damage from procs 3 times every 6 seconds and move on. It was a broken mechanic. Period. Way stronger than it should have been. This brings it more in line with other items, skills, and abilities. One mechanic should not have ruled the entire PvE meta.

Every piece of content in this game is still easily doable, even off meta. Stop crying because you don't get to be overpowered for the price of farming two weeks worth of dailies.

I'd be fine with removing crits from PVP.

Thats fine, but what would that fix with sets? All I see it doing is switching peoples traits out from impen to divines, infused, or whatever they overly buff/under nerf.

Clarkieson

Removing crit from pvp will have no effect

Proc sets will just hit for thier base number

Viper and velidreth will still hit for 10k+

Impenetrable will not reduce the damage

Doctordarkspawn

technohic wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"Blanket fixes hurt everyone! Remove crit from PvP instead!

Just accept that you're going to have to learn your rotations when you aren't doubling the damage from procs 3 times every 6 seconds and move on. It was a broken mechanic. Period. Way stronger than it should have been. This brings it more in line with other items, skills, and abilities. One mechanic should not have ruled the entire PvE meta.

Every piece of content in this game is still easily doable, even off meta. Stop crying because you don't get to be overpowered for the price of farming two weeks worth of dailies.

I'd be fine with removing crits from PVP.

Thats fine, but what would that fix with sets? All I see it doing is switching peoples traits out from impen to divines, infused, or whatever they overly buff/under nerf.

It wouldn't. That's the point I keep trying to make that people dont seem to get.

The crits arrent the problem, it's the volume of procs that are the problem. And it can be fixed reletively easily. Just add a universal cooldown of proc sets.

Problem is people dont want that to happen because Malicious people wanna see PVE nerfed for no reason.

Clarkieson

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"Blanket fixes hurt everyone! Remove crit from PvP instead!

Just accept that you're going to have to learn your rotations when you aren't doubling the damage from procs 3 times every 6 seconds and move on. It was a broken mechanic. Period. Way stronger than it should have been. This brings it more in line with other items, skills, and abilities. One mechanic should not have ruled the entire PvE meta.

Every piece of content in this game is still easily doable, even off meta. Stop crying because you don't get to be overpowered for the price of farming two weeks worth of dailies.

I'd be fine with removing crits from PVP.

Thats fine, but what would that fix with sets? All I see it doing is switching peoples traits out from impen to divines, infused, or whatever they overly buff/under nerf.

It wouldn't. That's the point I keep trying to make that people dont seem to get.

The crits arrent the problem, it's the volume of procs that are the problem. And it can be fixed reletively easily. Just add a universal cooldown of proc sets.

This

Dracane

Do something about Tremorscale, Viper, Velidreth and Selene. But leave other sets alone, that's not good.
And in case of the mentioned ones, I don't think removing their crit is enough to make them less overpowered.

ManwithBeard9

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"Blanket fixes hurt everyone! Remove crit from PvP instead!

Just accept that you're going to have to learn your rotations when you aren't doubling the damage from procs 3 times every 6 seconds and move on. It was a broken mechanic. Period. Way stronger than it should have been. This brings it more in line with other items, skills, and abilities. One mechanic should not have ruled the entire PvE meta.

Every piece of content in this game is still easily doable, even off meta. Stop crying because you don't get to be overpowered for the price of farming two weeks worth of dailies.

I'd be fine with removing crits from PVP.

Thats fine, but what would that fix with sets? All I see it doing is switching peoples traits out from impen to divines, infused, or whatever they overly buff/under nerf.

It wouldn't. That's the point I keep trying to make that people dont seem to get.

The crits arrent the problem, it's the volume of procs that are the problem. And it can be fixed reletively easily. Just add a universal cooldown of proc sets.

Problem is people dont want that to happen because Malicious people wanna see PVE nerfed for no reason.

If it's so easy, explain to is using the game code from ZOS hour you would write the proc cool down into the game.

BuddyAces

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"Blanket fixes hurt everyone! Remove crit from PvP instead!

Just accept that you're going to have to learn your rotations when you aren't doubling the damage from procs 3 times every 6 seconds and move on. It was a broken mechanic. Period. Way stronger than it should have been. This brings it more in line with other items, skills, and abilities. One mechanic should not have ruled the entire PvE meta.

Every piece of content in this game is still easily doable, even off meta. Stop crying because you don't get to be overpowered for the price of farming two weeks worth of dailies.

I'd be fine with removing crits from PVP.

Thats fine, but what would that fix with sets? All I see it doing is switching peoples traits out from impen to divines, infused, or whatever they overly buff/under nerf.

It wouldn't. That's the point I keep trying to make that people dont seem to get.

The crits arrent the problem, it's the volume of procs that are the problem. And it can be fixed reletively easily. Just add a universal cooldown of proc sets.

Problem is people dont want that to happen because Malicious people wanna see PVE nerfed for no reason.

I'll bet ya a penny they also add a c/d to proc sets.

User_Name

Much needed and anticipated change to proc sets, thank you ZOS! It's a start, at least.

One thing I don't get from this stream of tears I spent the past 30 minutes paddling through: People that exclusively PVE are complaining that the DPS-loss will lead to slower completion of dungeons, as if that is a problem - but if PVE is what you enjoy, why look at it as a chore?

I find it really confusing. Games are supposed to be for fun and recreation. The daily quests and dungeons are also not mandatory but optional - no one forces anyone to sit and play through the same dungeons over and over every day with 12 different characters, and in fact I would highly advise against it if you find it to be "hard work". It's entirely optional.

To add to that I have no problem admitting that I am a bit of a PVE-noob, but I can still (using a PVP-build with no monster set, purple self-crafted gear and 200 CP) solo the non-dlc non-vet dungeons with ease (only found out a week ago that I can get keys this way too, yay), and from what I have tried of solo Vet dungeon bosses they don't seem entirely impossible either with a little more CP, Legendary gear and a bit of research. PVE in this game seem very easy, even for players inexperienced with PVE, the dungeon mechanics and the set pieces - I don't really think you need the proc set crit damage unless you are entirely useless, but please correct me if I am wrong, as I said I am not particularly skilled nor experienced in the world of PVE.

In what dungeons / under which circumstances is proc damage set criticals absolutely vital?

ginoboehm

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

@ginoboehm you just got rekt by Rich mate. The 8% DPS loss was with 3 proc sets and without proper trials gear. That means that the difference with be barely noticeable in PvE with just 1 proc set. So I'm not entirely happy either about this change, but there's no point in crying before the full patch notes are released. Plus I'm pretty sure that the proc sets were over performing even in PvE. When you see that Ilambris or Grothdarr pulls as much DPS as Velocious Curse (~4k) you start to question things. So wait for the patch notes before saying that ZOS wasted a patch, etc.

@IzakiBrotheSs
you have no idea what you are talking about he lost 40 or smth % of damage of those sets.
I don't care one *** about the pve nerfs. It is just the wrong way to remove their crit because crit is way more important in pve and they are problematic for pvp not pve. who cares what is viable in pve. you can always switch around sets and use the next best stuff they are annoying in pvp because they take 0 skill to use get triggered in a burst after doing a light attack and are completly outperforming any other type of damage.

goldenarcher1

Sounds like good news for the super-tanks of Cyro,even harder to take down after this update.

Be nice if they would do something about useless traits on armour and weapons in the update.

Dev

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.

@ZOS_RichLambert

Why are you using a 3rd party add on? Doesn't the company have better test harnesses available that can run a sim a few hundred times? 1 sample each is hardly scientific... also at over 44k in both examples, means that you are using above average gear. Not everyone who will be impacted by this has the ability to use a debug command to get all the gold gear in best traits.

The data does not make the point i think you were trying for.
While your screenshot shows a 6.5% decrease, the fact that is easy to overlook is that was 3453 points less dps you were doing, and a net loss of 346k total damage.
Considering the Deltia video which you responded back was more then 20% off the coded distribution, would mean those numbers can be much worse.

The mob in your example lived 10 seconds longer, and since some mobs have rage timers, you just made it so some groups will not be able to clear it that were able to clear it prior. 10 seconds is a long time when mobs have any timed mechanics.

Also why is your weapon crit different in the middle section. You somehow lost 5% crit base stat? Is this a sign of yet another nerf?

All in all the data shown is garbage, the rotations used were not the same, the percents and numbers are so skewed that if anyone ever submitted a report to me like this, i would have them either re-trained or fired.


Considering that this change will make so much gear useless, will there be a means to get all the tempers back, or a reduction in the garbage traits for rng, or in general any method to reduce the amount of time and effort that this poor decision will cause?

Probably not since the longer a player has to farm their gear, the more money you can make off of them... That is the current business model isn't?

MoTeets wrote: »

Or you could relax and wait for the update and see exactly what is coming out.

relax, no way in hell!!! why should we? They are so out of touch that waiting will do nothing but make it worse. It is better to cut off their income then to just keep paying for poor quality products. I doubt anyone is going to quit over this one update, but collectively, this just makes what was already broken that much worse.

We should keep paying them after they basically told every pve player we need to suffer so that pvp players can get a barely marginal improvement. We have to take a 3k dps loss, and have some content become more annoying so that it takes a best 1 extra weapon skill to kill a pvp player?


This is a horrible idea and it would be really nice if ZoS kept their people accountable for the bad decisions instead of playing hot potato with the nerf bat.

SunfireKnight86

Shinkhan wrote: »

OHHHH NICE !! SO THNX FOR NERFING YOUR TEMPLARS AND STAM SORCs !! OHH WAIT NOO YOU CANT, BECAUSE ITS THE CLASSES YOU GUYS FROM ZOS ARE PLAYING IN PVP WITH YOUR SERG IM SORRY.
WE ARE PAYING YOU NOT TO HAVE A GAME FOR YOU GUYS BUT FOR EVERYONE !! AND ARE YOU SOO BAD THAT YOU CANT EVEN NERF SOMTHING ONLY FOR PVP ? OHH NO WAIT YOU GUYS DID IT ALREADY BY NERFING THE MAGIKA SORC, YOU GUYS NERFED THE SHIELDS "TWICE" !!
BUT ITS OK WE SHOULD BE HAPPY BECAUSE YOU ARE NERFING THE STAMINA ALSO IN PVE !! OHH NOOO WAIT THE FREAKING KRAGH SET WILL STILL DO THE SAME PENETRATION.

WE DONT NEED TO TELL YOU WHAT YOU NEED T DO CUZ YOU GUYS ALREADY KNOW THAT ! YOU ARE MAKING A GAME ONLY FOR YOU AND NOT FOR THE COMUNITY AND ONE DAY YOU WILL FIND YOURSELFS ALONE IN YOUR GAME.

Take your finger off the shift button, take a breath, then leave the room and let the adults finish talking.

SunfireKnight86

Stridig wrote: »

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

"Blanket fixes hurt everyone! Remove crit from PvP instead!

Just accept that you're going to have to learn your rotations when you aren't doubling the damage from procs 3 times every 6 seconds and move on. It was a broken mechanic. Period. Way stronger than it should have been. This brings it more in line with other items, skills, and abilities. One mechanic should not have ruled the entire PvE meta.

Every piece of content in this game is still easily doable, even off meta. Stop crying because you don't get to be overpowered for the price of farming two weeks worth of dailies.

I would actually be fine with crits being removed from PvP.

Well, ***. If Stridig is fine with it, we better make it happen.

ArcVelarian

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:

• The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage
• The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)
• The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)
• Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

This is the best birthday present ever! Thanks ZoS.