Official Discussion Thread for Weapon Ultimates

olsborg

Bow Ultimate: Ballista morph (turret)

Is it intended that you cant cloak during the duration of this ultimate (4.1s)

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Toc de Malsvi

sAnn92 wrote: »

@Toc de Malsvi have you even tried the ult bro? If you didn't let me tell you its really strong, almost brutal. The ballista hits like a godamn truck and can be comboed pretty easily. Imo the best ult along with the shield one.

Nope on console, but I've watched video's and I've seen nothing that makes it look OP or very desirable. For mobile single target PVE fights it should beat Shooting Star, otherwise it should lose.

psychotic13

olsborg wrote: »

Bow Ultimate: Ballista morph (turret)

Is it intended that you cant cloak during the duration of this ultimate (4.1s)

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I would imagine so, be a bit unfair if you could be invisible and use things like that.

Strider_Roshin

olsborg wrote: »

Bow Ultimate: Ballista morph (turret)

Is it intended that you cant cloak during the duration of this ultimate (4.1s)

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Cloaking an ultimate is a cheese anyways. I think the fact that they got rid of cloaking meteor was appropriate. Abilities shouldn't trump ultimates IMO. They should do the same with Soul Strike as well.

olsborg

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Bow Ultimate: Ballista morph (turret)

Is it intended that you cant cloak during the duration of this ultimate (4.1s)

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Cloaking an ultimate is a cheese anyways. I think the fact that they got rid of cloaking meteor was appropriate. Abilities shouldn't trump ultimates IMO. They should do the same with Soul Strike as well.

Im all for meteor hitting through cloak, but this happens if you use "turret" yourself.. you cant cloak as long as your turret is hitting something. Its fine if its intended, just doesnt rly make sense imo while your turret is one place and you are another place, if you cloak you are revealed.

Strider_Roshin

olsborg wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Bow Ultimate: Ballista morph (turret)

Is it intended that you cant cloak during the duration of this ultimate (4.1s)

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Cloaking an ultimate is a cheese anyways. I think the fact that they got rid of cloaking meteor was appropriate. Abilities shouldn't trump ultimates IMO. They should do the same with Soul Strike as well.

Im all for meteor hitting through cloak, but this happens if you use "turret" yourself.. you cant cloak as long as your turret is hitting something. Its fine if its intended, just doesnt rly make sense imo while your turret is one place and you are another place, if you cloak you are revealed.

Oh I misunderstood. Yeah that's odd. Are you able to cloak turret if you're on the receiving end?

Ivan04

Time for a thorough post.

- What’s your favorite Weapon Ultimate, and why?
Shield wall, really good for cheap self-sustain while maintaining offence on a DK. I believe it deserves to be nerfed into non-automatic blocking, too easy.
- Are there any Weapon Ultimates that you’d like to see more powerful? Which one, and what would you like to see changed?
They're all incredibly overpowered, except magic ones. I personally would suggest making resto ultimate target at least two people, and either increase damage or decrease cost on Destruction ultimates. Also, I'd enjoy to see it apply different effects besides usual consussion/burning/chilled. I personally envisioned a great fireball when I thought about destro ultimate, something that'd show off your power as a mage.
- Are you considering using any of these new Ultimates in place of your current Ultimate? If so, why?
Yes, all of them, except magic ones.
- Do you have any other general feedback?
Berserker rage (2H) ultimate looks pretty ridiculous. It looks weak and light, and doing something like this with a heavy weapon would lead to immediate injuries. I suggest changing the animation into any sort of a more powerful two-handed movement. Also I'm a bit concerned about ultimate return, returning 150 ultimate is a bit too much in my opinion.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

1:destruction staff ult needs to be reworked. the one thing magica builds have access to is plenty of strong aoe ults. each class has a good one and we have meteor. the absolute last thing magica builds need is another expensive aoe ult.
also dawnbreaker does almost as much as meteor for half the cost + the dot sticks and is instant unlike meteor with a delay which makes it easily blockable.

in my opinion destro staff ult should be a very very strong single target ult OR (preferably) a powerful telegraph like dawnbreaker. obviously containing the flavor of each element. this is what magica builds are missing

2: as a magica pvp build that uses sword board ill test sword and board but most likely will want offenceive ults, although if the above changes were implemented id likely go back to using a destro staff on one bar for the ult

3:in my opinion dawnbreaker should be brought to 150 not 125, unless something is brought in for magica builds that is that powerful and cheap, like a destro staff ult!

Rykmaar

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

1:destruction staff ult needs to be reworked. the one thing magica builds have access to is plenty of strong aoe ults. each class has a good one and we have meteor. the absolute last thing magica builds need is another expensive aoe ult.
also dawnbreaker does almost as much as meteor for half the cost + the dot sticks and is instant unlike meteor with a delay which makes it easily blockable.

in my opinion destro staff ult should be a very very strong single target ult OR (preferably) a powerful telegraph like dawnbreaker. obviously containing the flavor of each element. this is what magica builds are missing

2: as a magica pvp build that uses sword board ill test sword and board but most likely will want offenceive ults, although if the above changes were implemented id likely go back to using a destro staff on one bar for the ult

3:in my opinion dawnbreaker should be brought to 150 not 125, unless something is brought in for magica builds that is that powerful and cheap, like a destro staff ult!

Dawnbreaker of Facerolling will still be used often at 125 ult. It is simply too strong an ability to ignore, does far too much damage, and is very, very cheap.

It needs to go to 150-175 at least and the cc needs to be separated from the damage morph.

Doctordarkspawn

old_mufasa wrote: »

Really wish the sword and board ultimate would of have a aoe tuant added to it.. it would of been perfect.. you tuant all mobs blocking all attacks for x amount of time....

You ain' the only one.

dro_rasec

Destro staff ultimate need a buff, is too expensive, 2 seconds delay before doing anything and do less damaage that meteor.

Clarkieson

Lots of interesting points made here guys

I bet 5 jejota ZOS pay no attention and leave the ultimates as they are

Strider_Roshin

Clarkieson wrote: »

Lots of interesting points made here guys

I bet 5 jejota ZOS pay no attention and leave the ultimates as they are

Nah, I'm sure ZOS will nerf the 2H Ultimate, and buff the Destro one. Do you remember the Maelstrom weapons before they went live? They ended up nerfing the 2H and buffing the Destro due to player feedback. Give them some credit.

Glory

... is there a reason we can't purify/purge the bow ultimate DoT? I understand that the channel may not be (although soul assault can...), but the DoT afterwards?

Seriously?

Strider_Roshin

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

... is there a reason we can't purify/purge the bow ultimate DoT? I understand that the channel may not be (although soul assault can...), but the DoT afterwards?

Seriously?

It should stay that way, and they need to make it so that Soul Strike acts in the same manner.

Xsorus

SanTii.92 wrote: »

All this talk about destro and 2h ults is overlooking thhe most outragouse one, Shield. 100 cost and not only keeps pushing the perma block / unkillables tank meta but also has a HARD counter to almost all magicka builds like nothing else. Something has to be done here.

Most won't choose the Reflect Morph

The Stamina Morph will save around 10k stamina alone which is worth way more then Reflect

Not to mention; you can pop reflect for free with Defensive Posture.

Xsorus

I think a lot of people are underestimating how freakin Powerful Ballista is...I personally thought it was going to suck ass like Soul Assault but after using it I'm pretty much plopping it on my Backbar for burst...

its Insanely nasty...

Glory

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

... is there a reason we can't purify/purge the bow ultimate DoT? I understand that the channel may not be (although soul assault can...), but the DoT afterwards?

Seriously?

It should stay that way, and they need to make it so that Soul Strike acts in the same manner.

You also can't interrupt it like you can soul assault...

Strider_Roshin

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

... is there a reason we can't purify/purge the bow ultimate DoT? I understand that the channel may not be (although soul assault can...), but the DoT afterwards?

Seriously?

It should stay that way, and they need to make it so that Soul Strike acts in the same manner.

You also can't interrupt it like you can soul assault...

Well that I disagree with. It should be interruptable.

SublimeSparo

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

... is there a reason we can't purify/purge the bow ultimate DoT? I understand that the channel may not be (although soul assault can...), but the DoT afterwards?

Seriously?

It should stay that way, and they need to make it so that Soul Strike acts in the same manner.

You also can't interrupt it like you can soul assault...

Balance by ZoS, the new fragrance that smells unmistakeably like bullsh*t

MrGorv

• What’s your favorite Weapon Ultimate, and why?
  Shield Wall. With both morphs. It really makes a difference for the 1H+S builds in PvP and, in terms of class balance, gives everyone a reflect ability.
• Are there any Weapon Ultimates that you’d like to see more powerful? Which one, and what would you like to see changed?
  More powerful? Panacea. It should heal both you and an ally. Not one of two. Again, for the class balance compared to templar healers.
• Are you considering using any of these new Ultimates in place of your current Ultimate? If so, why?
  If nothing changes, I'll use Onslaught instead of Dawnbreaker. I'm a stamina-DK and this Ultimate return will be a great game change, though I understand it's OP.
• Do you have any other general feedback?
  As it have already been said, stamina-weapon based Ultimates are overpowered. Why? Let's see.
  Berserker Strike. It drains all the resistances from the target. That's too much for a 150u cost. In my opinion it should be draining half of it, or ignoring fully, but not giving anything to the attacker, except, maybe Major Resolve and Major Ward. Or just make it cost more, like 200u. That'll be much more balanced. For the Onslaught morph full Ultimate repayment is also too powerful, returning like 2/3 of it would be more fair.
  Rapid Fire. It's damage is crazy. If you look at the Soul Assaut Ultimate it's really much the same, but it does 3 times less damage, and your movement is slowed down. To make Rapid Fire more balanced, I think, damage should be reduced for around 25% and Ultimate itself still should be interruptable and reflectable.
  Lacerate. It's generally OK, but 50% healing is a little too much. 35% will be more fitting, as I see it.

olsborg

Btw, even at 150 cost the 2h Onslaught and other morph is a tad op, it hits about 2k harder then incapacatating strike but also ignores resist, this will result in pretty ridiculous dmg.

OdinForge

After all this time and testing, I don't actually see the issue with any these stamina ultimate abilities. I think everyone just jumped to the conclusion of "Wow this is new, so OP". Incapacitating Strike* cost 50 ultimate, hits almost as hard in rotation as the 2H, adds critical rating, applies a heal debuff and increases damage done, as well as CCs. You can build it much faster and will cast it more than the 2H ult.

I might slot the 2H ult on my back bar for those moments where I can finish a low HP target off. But the DW one probably won't see much use from me, the bow one is nice but I don't think I'll use it either.

The only clear feedback that ZOS should focus on, is that the destruction staff ultimate is so poorly designed. Looks nice but come on. It's a shame that they probably won't redesign it now, but it should have helped burst for magicka builds more. I was quite looking forward to the destruction staff ultimate for my magblade.

Pandorii

OdinForge wrote: »

After all this time and testing, I don't actually see the issue with any these stamina ultimate abilities. I think everyone just jumped to the conclusion of "Wow this is new, so OP". Soul Harvest cost 50 ultimate, hits almost as hard in rotation as the 2H, adds critical rating, applies a heal debuff and increases damage done. You can build it much faster and will cast it more than the 2H ult.

I might slot the 2H ult on my back bar for those moments where I can finish a low HP target off. But the DW one probably won't see much use from me, the bow one is nice but I don't think I'll use it either.

The only clear feedback that ZOS should focus on, is that the destruction staff ultimate is so poorly designed. Looks nice but come on. It's a shame that they probably won't redesign it now, but it should have helped burst for magicka builds more. I was quite looking forward to the destruction staff ultimate for my magblade.

Soul Harvest is a skill only available to one class: nightblades. They've always had the best ultimates. I think people are more worried about the 2H ultimate being used on a stam DK build, another front runner along with sNB for top DPS in PvP and PvE.

OdinForge

Pandorii wrote: »

Soul Harvest is a skill only available to one class: nightblades. They've always had the best ultimates. I think people are more worried about the 2H ultimate being used on a stam DK build, another front runner along with sNB for top DPS in PvP and PvE.

Soul harvest didn't start scaling properly for stamina builds until the CP change in DB. DK was the only class for a very long time that had a physical damage scaling ultimate. I don't think it's logical or truthful to say that NB has always had the best ultimate's. Soul harvest was decent and soul tether is great for magicka builds mostly, but all three ultimate's for DK are fantastic.

Regardless of that, stamina builds needed more physical ultimate options.

Jar_Ek

Ok my take on it all for what its worth:

2H is too cheap for its effects - it needs to cost significantly more and not have a morph that refunds it's full cost.

Sword and shield needs to have a morph that applies cc immunity whilst its operational or even as part of the default (if part of the default the cost would probably need to be higher). It might be nice for pvp if it prevented resistance reduction for the duration as a morph (inc. 2h ultimate effect, poisons, sharpened, mauls, ...).

Restoration staff heal should be a group aoe burst or mega dot heal - it either needs to effect more targets or provide better secondary effects.

Destruction stave should not have a 2s wind-up (I know its because its ranged, but its a dot and it doesn't root), should do ramping damage as hurricane does (starting at current and ramping to +200% over its duration, in steps of +50% per 2s). The elemental effects should be part of the base spell effect. The morph should debuff the targets resistance to magic, or their health, or their healing.

The bow needs to have an effect even if dodge rolled, as one dodge roll will completely negate this ultimate otherwise.

Haven't looked at DW yet.

Toc de Malsvi

In reality it is going to take more than PTS testing to flesh out the real performance of these changes. I remember before TG dropped it looked like Mag DK was getting buffed through the roof and was going to be OP, that never happened, the massive healing from Burning Embers(even after a slight nerf) never lived up to the hype. It was far to easy to purge or keep at range and prevent the healing, while Mag DK still lacked the burst needed to kill targets.

The Draining Shot heal change looked to be pathetic and easily negated, and there was almost unanimous agreement, but in practical use I and many others found it quite functional and strong if used right.

I don't find the Bow ultimate enticing and I don't think it will work as well as people imagine, but only given time on live servers will we see its functionality proven or dis-proven.

The 2H ultimate looks incredibly strong, the destro and resto ultimates look incredibly weak. However we need more PVP and PVE centered testing to prove their value or lack there of. So far all too many of the ultimate video's I've seen are just shown on some random world monster which offers very little value in delineating their functionality.

SodanTok

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Weapon Ultimates. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• What’s your favorite Weapon Ultimate, and why?
• Are there any Weapon Ultimates that you’d like to see more powerful? Which one, and what would you like to see changed?
• Are you considering using any of these new Ultimates in place of your current Ultimate? If so, why?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

• Compared to current ultimates? None (dawnbreaker and/or comet are still the best). If I had to choose it would be bow ult, just because I like using bow.
• Bow ultimate, most importantly the Toxic Barrage morph. This ult needs to offer much more than ok-ish DoT. Ballista is bonus dmg on top of your regular, Toxic Barrage is just that ult and later DoT dmg on top of your regular, not worth it DPS wise imho.
  From PvE persp. the channeling ult needs some flavor (or bigger dmg) in terms of applying some effect/debuff on target (penetration, vulnerability, almost anything but snare or defile).
  From PvP persp. Its ok, but it definitely must not be dodgeable. I dont know how it works on players, but the damage should not be avoidable by dodging - same as comet or RD)
  
• Probably not, but I will try using the bow ult for a while. For now it doesnt look good for players using bow as main weapon. Dawnbreaker offers so much more.

Jerdeh

I really like the new ultimates, but there are couple changes that I would like to see. First of all, the destruction staff ultimate morph could be a single target and self, instead of the spawn in place or self, as it is now. The other change is the dual wield ultimate, it would be better if the effect would be 360 degrees.

STEVIL

my 2c on the DESTRO Staff Ult:

The 2 seconds buil-up is IMO a boon for eye of the storm. it is a moveable AOE and having it take 2 seconds before the duration starts is good thing. it means you can launch it at range without triggering aggro then rush or streak in and get the full duration against an enemy. imagine launching it at the 4 seconds of tic in a duel countdown (if possible.) then streak to enemy.

HOWEVER, even with that the ults for Staff seem weak and uninspired.

So first revisit its damage to keep it on par with other ults considering all effects. but i believe the main gain would be it REFRESH and RESET so damage at less than optimal is OK.

but it needs to be unique.

My suggestion is: ADD A SIGNIFICANT SUSTAIN (refresh and reset) COMPONENT.
Toi the base ULT add the following:
On ACTIVATION restore 5% of your max magica per second including build time.)
Returns damage done as magica.
Scale damage up as rank increases.

To the non-eye of the storm morph add: When slotted reduce magica costs for all abilities by 2% (raise to 5% at 1 % per rank )

leave eye of the storm as is because the gains from mobile storm following you will increase the magica gain too.

RATIONALE: For me in play the difference between magica chars running destro staff and other options such as DW was that the staff wielders had better sustain capabilkity because of the staff ability to return magica AND the weave which took some damage and made it free (while the dw pretty much relied on just magica costing abilities for all the damage and had no real ability to heavy for magica.)

So what i would like to see Destro staff do is take that to a higher level with its ultimate - which gives it a pretty unique to me niche.

Sure, it could become a higher damage snaring effect or meteor sub but there are plenty of those.

but if it became a "SLAM and RESET" which gives your character a significant refresh ability - enabling a low magica mage to in essence "RESET" his magica pool, at least to half and then come out swinging.

Think of it as a "second wind" effect with some damage as the filler in between.

As stated above, the specifics of how the "second wind" is generated is up for grabs... but it needs to be significant not just cosmetic.

basically this crates the option of a magica burner with destro using lots of high power high magica offense, getting low on magica and then hitting the "refresh ult" to get the second wind. it can also serve plenty of characters who have sustain issues.

basically i am not interested in another high damage ult... got those already. But i dont know off hand of any significant magica recovery ults.