What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

dodgehopper_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

starkerealm wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

I don't think I understand why people are threatening to quit over this. If you don't like the idea of loot boxes, don't buy them. Your gameplay will not be affected by you not having something you didn't have before.

@Enodoc, I sorta glossed over this earlier... actually, I discussed it in detail in an earlier post, but when I was responding to you, I didn't really focus on it.

Lucky bags make a lot of money. From an RoI perspective they're incredibly attractive. But, this also means, when you're committing developer resources to a project, they get a disproportionate amount of attention.

Implementing Lucky Bags actually makes it less likely that glitches like the group finder being completely bjorked will get fixed. If there's a problem with the bags? Yeah, that we need to get someone on right now. The finder can wait.

Similarly, it distorts development of future content. If you're saying, "well, I can put these resources into a product that will get us 25 bucks from a lot of players once, or I can put a tiny fraction of that into a piece of content that a handful of players will, literally, through thousands of dollars at us for, each," then you can see why priorities distort.

Lucky Bags can easily pull in more than any other income revenue stream for an MMO. In turn, they become the tail that wags the dog. For some people, that doesn't matter. They can keep on chugging away. But, for those of us who actually liked ESO, it's entering an era when the game we knew and loved is in serious jeopardy.

This really encapsulates the problem doesn't it. The situation you describe is why I almost signed off MMO's for good. The things that were being said when ESO was released were antithetical to this lockbox idea, and I was very excited to play in an MMO version of Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim. I think a lot of gamers are getting weary of these practices, and if companies keep pushing these things they might just push us out of the market for good.

dodgehopper_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

elvenmad wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And what makes you believe, they are telling the truth, if they lied so often already?

Simple little motto I have: "Innocent until proven guilty."

ZoS has not lied about their promise to put in P2W items in the crown store and only have plans to put a few exclusive mounts into the loot table for the boxes. So their actions, so far, have given me a fair bit of trust that they'll will stick to their word.

Take a look at my edit - I have posted an example of how they dealt with the truth in the past - I could dig up more, there is a bunch of lies all over the place - but I am just tired to listen to their lies anymore.

This is not new seen this before many many times, from well known games like Tera, Archeage, Wildstar, Neverwinter, Blade and Soul and many many more, ALL have said exact same things in the past ALL have done the exact opposite ALL have ended up with these originally stated as 'cosmetic only' RNG boxes containing important game changing materials and consumables ............ALL also have servers in Germany........and ALL continue to do so

Its nothing new Welcome to western online game publishers and their 'Shady' practices.

The western companies are just picking up on what Asian mmo companies have been doing for a while. My first experience with lockboxes were on an Asian mmo that was utterly ruined by this system. Its a global phenomen now, and its ruining gaming. Like I've said before I had written off MMO's til ESO came along, and I think this might just be the nail in the coffin for me.

Marrtha

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I hope they don't add these. It is so pointless.. You either buy something you want or you don't. Items that have retired from the crown store may come back at any point, and don't even get me started on the monster sets that some are suggesting. That I would not tolerate one bit.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Another thing which comes to mind with this is - it overshadowed another new thing, which they promised will not happen - namely PvP activity in the PvE zones - dueling, it will allow players to PvP against each other in PvE zones. This would normally be part of a bigger debate, if we would not have to worry about the RNG boxes - this is again a step in the wrong direction - now we will have open PvP combat in PvE zones and they can annoy us with this, break immersion and hinder role play even more. ZOS just sneaked that in with One Tamriel under cover firing by the RNG box scheme.

But dueling in PvE zones can so easily be abused to bring chaos to the PvE zones, make cities even more annoying to be at and take away from a proper Elder Scrolls role play experience. This is another thing, where ZOS was just not sticking to what they said before. How can we trust them with anything now?

Edit: just to add this, I am not against PvP not even against open world everywhere PvP - but not in a game like ESO, which has another focus than this - open world everywhere PvP is perfect for a game like EVE, I really love this aspect of the game very much, but I do not like PvP in PvE zones in ESO with the same passion in which I support PvP in EVE. This feature does not belong into the Elder Scrolls world.

Doctordarkspawn

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

Another thing which comes to mind with this is - it overshadowed another new thing, which they promised will not happen - namely PvP activity in the PvE zones - dueling, it will allow players to PvP against each other in PvE zones. This would normally be part of a bigger debate, if we would not have to worry about the RNG boxes - this is again a step in the wrong direction - now we will have open PvP combat in PvE zones and they can annoy us with this, break immersion and hinder role play even more. ZOS just sneaked that in with One Tamriel under cover firing by the RNG box scheme.

But dueling in PvE zones can so easily be abused to bring chaos to the PvE zones, make cities even more annoying to be at and take away from a proper Elder Scrolls role play experience. This is another thing, where ZOS was just not sticking to what they said before. How can we trust them with anything now?

Edit: just to add this, I am not against PvP not even against open world everywhere PvP - but not in a game like ESO, which has another focus than this - open world everywhere PvP is perfect for a game like EVE, I really love this aspect of the game very much, but I do not like PvP in PvE zones in ESO with the same passion in which I support PvP in EVE. This feature does not belong into the Elder Scrolls world.

There's gonne be a whitelist option for that.

I'm personally more concerned about the 12 hour matinence times, the high density of connection and loading issues these patches and the general trouble Zenimax is having geting this game to -run correctly-. It only went downhill since thieves guild launch.

Adding to that, PVP in PVE zones might -lower- PVE performance. God only knows how *** that would be.

dodgehopper_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

starkerealm wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

elvenmad wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

THIS IS HOW A GAME DIES.

Zenimax. You wanna earn my trust in a big way? Officially condemn this practice and scrap this idea. You dont wanna do that? I'm gonna advise everyone not to buy ***, not the nice DLC bundle, not the deals, not the cosmetics until you remove and condemn this practice.

I dont have much trust left but your pushin' it.

No its not

This is hyperbole.

Games don't die from lockboxes selling items you can't even trade with other players, esp items that are purely cosmetic.

yes it is, but its also been stated they will contain consumables and 'rare' crate only exclusive items, the only thing stated not included is Gear and Weapons.

I can see, as many others can, and have seen in other games, they will in the end contain the the most important gear progression items, which are classed as consumables, the upgrade mats ie: Alloys and Wax etc.

This also gives me a Deja vu feeling from other games which have done this as I have already noticed a decline in the drop rates of these items in game, and I farm a lot, every day and since last patch in my own experience there as been a noticeable difference

Oh, I'm sure they'd never stick alloy and wax in the box. It'd be some new universal upgrade mat, like Aetherial dust, or something. That you could plug into any item, and upgrade it to any tier. Including a tier above gold... maybe cyan, magenta, orange, or something, that was only possible with this new material.

Or, with housing coming, they could add crafting nodes to the boxes like GW2 did. In GW2, it is a consumable that adds a top tier node to your home instance for daily gathering :T

In GW2, it was tradable though.

Why you gotta put that image in my head?

I suppose it could be worse. STO's player housing (Guild housing, really) had a real money value of somewhere around five or six hundred dollars, when you accounted for the dilithium costs.

Doesn't make me feel any better though.

It was well above that cost in the beginning - I have no idea what it costs now, because we finished it and I don't care any more. The time and cost put into making the starbases was more like 10,000 dollars worth of materials though as I recollect when dilithium exchange was compared. It was a ridiculous amount of money, and I'm not even including new holdings into it. STO is still around and they have some nice stories, but the fun and community have had their soul sucked out. Its a hollow memory of what it use to be. I'm not bitter because I'm not a paying customer (I subscribed there too, as I do here), I'm bitter because I've seen how lockboxes twisted the development process and managed to wreck game balance and story development on an MMO. I've never seen it work out for good. I'll admit that STO has done some good things, and I'll admit SWTOR has done some good things. Both of these games are still around of course, but there is a bit of joy that gets sucked away by the tedium of a game reliant on lockboxes. If I feel as though I should just throw money at a game so I can have the goodies so I don't need to play the game, I think to myself that perhaps I don't want to play at all. The alternative is to play against excessive odds, in a 'job' of gaming that feels nothing like having fun in order to acquire these end game goals. The ultimate choice is that bailing out of the game ends up being the most fun option.

code65536

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Lysette wrote: »

Another thing which comes to mind with this is - it overshadowed another new thing, which they promised will not happen - namely PvP activity in the PvE zones - dueling, it will allow players to PvP against each other in PvE zones. This would normally be part of a bigger debate, if we would not have to worry about the RNG boxes - this is again a step in the wrong direction - now we will have open PvP combat in PvE zones and they can annoy us with this, break immersion and hinder role play even more. ZOS just sneaked that in with One Tamriel under cover firing by the RNG box scheme.

But dueling in PvE zones can so easily be abused to bring chaos to the PvE zones, make cities even more annoying to be at and take away from a proper Elder Scrolls role play experience. This is another thing, where ZOS was just not sticking to what they said before. How can we trust them with anything now?

Edit: just to add this, I am not against PvP not even against open world everywhere PvP - but not in a game like ESO, which has another focus than this - open world everywhere PvP is perfect for a game like EVE, I really love this aspect of the game very much, but I do not like PvP in PvE zones in ESO with the same passion in which I support PvP in EVE. This feature does not belong into the Elder Scrolls world.

I'm actually looking forward to that. And I'm speaking as someone who usually does not PvP. First, it's entirely voluntary. You don't have to fight strangers if you don't want to. It's a good way to fight friends who are at your skill level, learn some things, and try out stuff, in a purely voluntary engagement, all in the safety of a controlled environment. Finally, there is nothing immersion-breaking about it. Imagine a tavern brawl...

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Another thing which comes to mind with this is - it overshadowed another new thing, which they promised will not happen - namely PvP activity in the PvE zones - dueling, it will allow players to PvP against each other in PvE zones. This would normally be part of a bigger debate, if we would not have to worry about the RNG boxes - this is again a step in the wrong direction - now we will have open PvP combat in PvE zones and they can annoy us with this, break immersion and hinder role play even more. ZOS just sneaked that in with One Tamriel under cover firing by the RNG box scheme.

But dueling in PvE zones can so easily be abused to bring chaos to the PvE zones, make cities even more annoying to be at and take away from a proper Elder Scrolls role play experience. This is another thing, where ZOS was just not sticking to what they said before. How can we trust them with anything now?

Edit: just to add this, I am not against PvP not even against open world everywhere PvP - but not in a game like ESO, which has another focus than this - open world everywhere PvP is perfect for a game like EVE, I really love this aspect of the game very much, but I do not like PvP in PvE zones in ESO with the same passion in which I support PvP in EVE. This feature does not belong into the Elder Scrolls world.

There's gonne be a whitelist option for that.

I'm personally more concerned about the 12 hour matinence times, the high density of connection and loading issues these patches and the general trouble Zenimax is having geting this game to -run correctly-. It only went downhill since thieves guild launch.

Adding to that, PVP in PVE zones might -lower- PVE performance. God only knows how *** that would be.

I would like an option which would just not let me see these people when they enter a duel - I am really worried that this feature will make the atmosphere in a city even less enjoyable - we have already those piles of corpses due to the blade of woe achievements - and now even more killing in crowded towns which will even more be a burden on performance. People will not use that out in the country side - no, they will wait in hubs (towns, crafting stations, wayshrine in Elden Root and so) for someone to kill with a duel-request - this will increase lag in those hubs and not be a pleasant experience.

dodgehopper_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

kkordasb14_ESO wrote: »

What the f**k??!!! Are we ARCHEAGE, NEVERWINTER, STAR TREK ONLINE, SWTOR, EVERY OTHER FREE 2 Play, MMO??GAMBLING is not just a money suck, it's WRONG. It's BAD. It's GREEDY. One thing I loved about ESO was that it was not pay to win! It was not a greed fest with game makers taking you for everything they possibly could. I do not mind a cash shop, I do not mind that DLC is pay to play, I do not mind subscriptions or season passes. But I DO mind having to gamble with my money to get something I want. Just put up the items and let us buy it if we want it. That's it. No games, no GAMBLING. No GOTCHA's in ESO please!!!

ESO I DARE you to be Different, stay different! Don't fall for the standard MMO business model. Just make good content and I won't mind paying for cosmetics, subscriptions or DLC.

@kkordasb14_ESO gets it. This is the main concern by many of us. We want an MMO where what you see is what you get. I don't know why its so easy to get a game like Skyrim that is like this, but the moment you turn it into an MMO they screw it up with this gambling-styled nonsense. Its becoming wearying and I know I and a lot of other people are losing interest in gaming in general because of it.

jedtb16_ESO

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

code65536 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Another thing which comes to mind with this is - it overshadowed another new thing, which they promised will not happen - namely PvP activity in the PvE zones - dueling, it will allow players to PvP against each other in PvE zones. This would normally be part of a bigger debate, if we would not have to worry about the RNG boxes - this is again a step in the wrong direction - now we will have open PvP combat in PvE zones and they can annoy us with this, break immersion and hinder role play even more. ZOS just sneaked that in with One Tamriel under cover firing by the RNG box scheme.

But dueling in PvE zones can so easily be abused to bring chaos to the PvE zones, make cities even more annoying to be at and take away from a proper Elder Scrolls role play experience. This is another thing, where ZOS was just not sticking to what they said before. How can we trust them with anything now?

Edit: just to add this, I am not against PvP not even against open world everywhere PvP - but not in a game like ESO, which has another focus than this - open world everywhere PvP is perfect for a game like EVE, I really love this aspect of the game very much, but I do not like PvP in PvE zones in ESO with the same passion in which I support PvP in EVE. This feature does not belong into the Elder Scrolls world.

I'm actually looking forward to that. And I'm speaking as someone who usually does not PvP. First, it's entirely voluntary. You don't have to fight strangers if you don't want to. It's a good way to fight friends who are at your skill level, learn some things, and try out stuff, in a purely voluntary engagement, all in the safety of a controlled environment. Finally, there is nothing immersion-breaking about it. Imagine a tavern brawl...

tavern brawls would be a great addition.... particularly in the nord areas. zos could add an intoxication element to some of the brews so that we have drunken tavern brawls lol... i'd pay for that.

its not like it's open world pvp. just consensual duelling, a good addition.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

code65536 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Another thing which comes to mind with this is - it overshadowed another new thing, which they promised will not happen - namely PvP activity in the PvE zones - dueling, it will allow players to PvP against each other in PvE zones. This would normally be part of a bigger debate, if we would not have to worry about the RNG boxes - this is again a step in the wrong direction - now we will have open PvP combat in PvE zones and they can annoy us with this, break immersion and hinder role play even more. ZOS just sneaked that in with One Tamriel under cover firing by the RNG box scheme.

But dueling in PvE zones can so easily be abused to bring chaos to the PvE zones, make cities even more annoying to be at and take away from a proper Elder Scrolls role play experience. This is another thing, where ZOS was just not sticking to what they said before. How can we trust them with anything now?

Edit: just to add this, I am not against PvP not even against open world everywhere PvP - but not in a game like ESO, which has another focus than this - open world everywhere PvP is perfect for a game like EVE, I really love this aspect of the game very much, but I do not like PvP in PvE zones in ESO with the same passion in which I support PvP in EVE. This feature does not belong into the Elder Scrolls world.

I'm actually looking forward to that. And I'm speaking as someone who usually does not PvP. First, it's entirely voluntary. You don't have to fight strangers if you don't want to. It's a good way to fight friends who are at your skill level, learn some things, and try out stuff, in a purely voluntary engagement, all in the safety of a controlled environment. Finally, there is nothing immersion-breaking about it. Imagine a tavern brawl...

Knowing how people behave I can tell you that this will make the cities a lot more laggy then before - it is not unlike those swarms of duelists hanging around Jita and Amarr trade hubs in EVE, waiting for those, who undock, send them a duel request and hope for that those do not read the text and just try to close the window accepting the duel - and it will be a free unpunished kill for them in a high security system - this kind of thing will happen in ESO as well - you will have even more annoying stuff going on in trade hubs.

Another aspect from experience in EVE with the dueling system - pretty much all players have that feature on "auto-deny dueling requests" - it is just hitting the newbies, who did not see that they can switch of the feature yet - and those are the one, who are preyed on - and then it is no wonder that about half of the people, who ever try EVE quit in under 2 hours - if they make this experience, they are gone.

dodgehopper_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Just ignore trolls . Some people don't care if ZOS goes back on their word . They don't care if the cost of things go up and they just want to argue for argument sake . The facts remain , there is no game with this practice doing well , very much the opposite . Most everyone one of those games WAS doing well before fleecing customers . The stars are in alignment for F2P to show its ugly head next . How can we say that ? History with other MMOs ! You can't give people experience . You can't stop a troll from trolling either . Obviously if the majority of the room agrees on a issue and two or three are dismissive , you ignore the people with their heads in the sand ...

@Rohamad_Ali I think you miss the point. I think that lockboxes actually do well for the gaming company. It allows them to suction money from their customer like a tapeworm until eventually the customer bucks them altogether. They know that in general a gamer will start to grow less interested in their game after a while, but will likely trickle back and forth for years to come. Rather than lose them altogether, they (gaming companies) have sought a strategy which tries to take as much money as they can up front. While this engenders bad feelings by the gamer, the company looks at it as a fact that the gamer was going to leave anyway so it is better to take what they can get now. I really believe that is the strategy that is behind all of these gamble-methods existent in mmo's today. This explains why they have these graduated developments often from Lifetime/Subscriber to Buy-To-Play to Free-to-Play to gambling free for all to Dead game.

Games have a life cycle and the truth of the matter is they know this and want to suck as many dollars out of the system now that they can. I can't fault them for wanting to get as much as they can, but there really is a good and a bad way to do this. There's a reason the SWG emulators are still going strong (and are more or less free).

PURPLE245

No, don't ever add these into the game.

pretty funny how over 50% people dont want this but its still goin to come to the game no matter what

dodgehopper_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Sylance9 wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

Sylance9 wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

From the percentages I'm seeing, looks like ZOS might have a bit of a NGE on their hands. (67%)

Hope it works out better for ZOS heads than it did for Smed. Sony sold Smed right out from under him, the new owners sent him home, and he didn't get enough of crowd funding to do a 2D game.

Adding boxes to a game is nowhere NEAR or even in the same BALLPARK as the NGE was.....

It is if 67% look the other way. Unless of course they are as willing as Rubinfield was to get rid of the existing player base thinking they'll get a boat-load more.

Thing is... Elder Scrolls is nowhere near as massive a property as Star Wars. Even after Skyrim's success, they've got a long way to go before they can afford to just blow off large chunks of their community.

You bet. SWG didn't and couldn't come back from about 2/3rds of their playerbase taking a hike, either. And it had that IP and was the only game in town with that IP at that time.

The reason SWG lost 2/3 of their player base was because they LITERALLY BROKE THE GAME. The NGE made it a completely different game then it was prior. Please see my above statement. You cant compare the NGE to adding lockboxes to the game. Your argument is absurd and has no basis on what is being announced. Please stop repeating yourself as it is literally mind boggling to think you consider this even close to the same thing.

You do realize ESO was remade as well right? It needed to be in large part because there were some broken systems. The problem is when they dumped the whole overcharging/softcap system in favor of 'stack all the damage you want online' they completely upended all manner of balance and theme issues without thinking it through (Or maybe they didn't care). At any regard it fundamentally changed this game, where functional Khajiit Mage-Sorcerers suddenly sucked where before they did fine. Where Altmer warriors became a joke. Now the solution is to sell us a racial change, for them *** up the game, a year later. I think they did a lot of good things with the game balance, but I'm already upset about the design of inherent and blatant flaws in a system that you can later bank on and profit from. I'm not happy about this when we are paying them to do this to us. I like ESO, but I've seen this behavior in MMO's before, and its not acceptable. There's a reason I will never race change. If I find the game becomes unplayable because they want to change mechanics to drive income by the switch of a lever, I'll be done at least financially speaking with the game.

I think there are some good observations that can be made from the way other mmo's were managed. A lot of the businesspeople, programmers, and marketers in these companies have worked for other companies. They share ideas with each other at conventions, from their other job experiences, etc. Its preposterous to think that past performances between other games are not related.

At any regard, there's a good reason the SWG emulators are going strong. That game had a lot of fantastic elements that people would still be happy to pay for if they had left the core concept alone, and didn't screw it up.

Rosveen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

@Lysette Dueling is fun, immersive and lore-friendly. As long as we have an auto-decline option, there's absolutely nothing wrong with this addition - and I'm saying this as a longtime TES fan and a declared PvEer. The only thing I'm worried about is lag.
Moreover, I don't understand why you bring this up in the context of trust. ZOS never said they wouldn't mix PvP and PvE, on the contrary: they gave us Imperial City, planned a PvP side of the justice system and remained open to dueling when they were asked about it before.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Just ignore trolls . Some people don't care if ZOS goes back on their word . They don't care if the cost of things go up and they just want to argue for argument sake . The facts remain , there is no game with this practice doing well , very much the opposite . Most everyone one of those games WAS doing well before fleecing customers . The stars are in alignment for F2P to show its ugly head next . How can we say that ? History with other MMOs ! You can't give people experience . You can't stop a troll from trolling either . Obviously if the majority of the room agrees on a issue and two or three are dismissive , you ignore the people with their heads in the sand ...

@Rohamad_Ali I think you miss the point. I think that lockboxes actually do well for the gaming company. It allows them to suction money from their customer like a tapeworm until eventually the customer bucks them altogether. They know that in general a gamer will start to grow less interested in their game after a while, but will likely trickle back and forth for years to come. Rather than lose them altogether, they (gaming companies) have sought a strategy which tries to take as much money as they can up front. While this engenders bad feelings by the gamer, the company looks at it as a fact that the gamer was going to leave anyway so it is better to take what they can get now. I really believe that is the strategy that is behind all of these gamble-methods existent in mmo's today. This explains why they have these graduated developments often from Lifetime/Subscriber to Buy-To-Play to Free-to-Play to gambling free for all to Dead game.

Games have a life cycle and the truth of the matter is they know this and want to suck as many dollars out of the system now that they can. I can't fault them for wanting to get as much as they can, but there really is a good and a bad way to do this. There's a reason the SWG emulators are still going strong (and are more or less free).

Bad games are like this, they have to suck money out of players - but do we want to orientate on the loser in the industry?- There are meanwhile a couple of MMOs out there, which are older than 10 years and they do something right, otherwise they would no longer be there. I am pretty certain that EVE will be there in 10 years from now and we might have a huge party in iceland at it's 25th anniversary and look at how old we got meanwhile - and there is a time capsule to unearth as well then. EVE is a game made for the long haul, it can be like that - it does not have to be a short-lived MMO with cash-grab mentality .

Doctordarkspawn

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Rosveen wrote: »

@Lysette Dueling is fun, immersive and lore-friendly. As long as we have an auto-decline option, there's absolutely nothing wrong with this addition - and I'm saying this as a longtime TES fan and a declared PvEer. The only thing I'm worried about is lag.
Moreover, I don't understand why you bring this up in the context of trust. ZOS never said they wouldn't mix PvP and PvE, on the contrary: they gave us Imperial City, planned a PvP side of the justice system and remained open to dueling when they were asked about it before.

Someone get me the quote where they said they were wary of puting PVP and PVE in the same zone around the time the PVP element of the justice system (which ended up scrapped) was being thrown around? I dont have it on hand but I know I've heard that quote before.

elvenmad

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Thing is guys they have obviously been working and developing this RNG loot box system for quite a while. we have just found out about it but the whole fully working system is going onto PTS in a couple of weeks.

I am pretty sure they know from other games it has a potential for huge returns, that to them is what makes it worthwhile, they are a business and the potential for huge returns have more than certainly been the drive behind developing it and investing time into it, they won't use development time on anything unless it has a return.

The uproar from the community as been pretty overwhelming just has it was in all the other games, BUT they still went ahead with implementation anyways for the one main reason the already proven huge revenue returns are just to good pass on.

The introduction of the boxes/crates is only the start the REAL concern is just how far they will go with them, all we can really do is wait and see. I expect the worse, I expect to see in the near future 'one off' special crate events containing the 'chance' necessary game items, special Alloys or wax etc, THIS is when its time to run

Personally from experience I see the worse coming how long it will be, I don't know, but I will be very very surprised if it does not, I'm already looking to move on and ready to run, certainly wont be spending any more more until I see how this plays out.

I don't mind investing into a game I know it helps it keep going, but when you start being pushed into a corner and required to pay to stay competitive, then I'm sorry thats just wrong.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

@Lysette Dueling is fun, immersive and lore-friendly. As long as we have an auto-decline option, there's absolutely nothing wrong with this addition - and I'm saying this as a longtime TES fan and a declared PvEer. The only thing I'm worried about is lag.
Moreover, I don't understand why you bring this up in the context of trust. ZOS never said they wouldn't mix PvP and PvE, on the contrary: they gave us Imperial City, planned a PvP side of the justice system and remained open to dueling when they were asked about it before.

Someone get me the quote where they said they were wary of puting PVP and PVE in the same zone around the time the PVP element of the justice system (which ended up scrapped) was being thrown around? I dont have it on hand but I know I've heard that quote before.

Yeah after the bad resonance after IC launch and when they canceled the PvP part of the justice system, they basically said, they do that because they do not want to introduce PvP activity in PvE zones. I am not against dueling, but I think this option should not be active in hubs like cities or wayshrines - there it is not beneficial, but I have nothing against people dueling in the open wild - just not in hubs.

Hand_Bacon

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

I'd still like to know from the more litigious among us, how this differs from card game packs? Both physical and online.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

I do not even have a clue what you mean by card game packs - I am not a gambler - the only card game I play is Qwen in Witcher 3 and not because I would like it, but to make people more likely to give me information and hints.

Mercutio

After reading most of this thread, can the majority of us agree on this statement:

"Have the lockboxes, but make everything also purchasable in the Crown Store as well."

Would that compromise suit most? For a rare mount you can spend 400 crowns for a random chance to get it, or 4000 in the store for a sure thing.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Mercutio wrote: »

After reading most of this thread, can the majority of us agree on this statement:

"Have the lockboxes, but make everything also purchasable in the Crown Store as well."

Would that compromise suit most? For a rare mount you can spend 400 crowns for a random chance to get it, or 4000 in the store for a sure thing.

This and "limit the amount of boxes, which can be bought to 15 boxes per month and account this would help with the addiction and ICD problem.

Furthermore be transparent about the actual chances like any real lottery is doing it - they do not hide how low the chance are.

Elsonso

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

aheck1111_ESO wrote: »

I'm in the camp that would gladly pay 2000-4000 Crowns for a cool mount, but am now concerned those will be RNG box exclusive.

It might be.

They have designed the Crown Crates like a game, which is to be expected from a company in an industry that makes games. The whole thing, including the Gems concept, is game play. The Crown Crates are sort of a Carnival game, and the players are trying to win that big stuffed animal.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

So if I'm understanding this correctly there are two camps that are against this?

1. Slippery slope to P2W and eventual early death of the game.

2. Preys on gambling addicts.

There is a third, and that is just that the Crown Store does not attract new players to the game. No one, or near enough for this conversation, goes to a play game because they have a cool Cash Shop. This means that the insane focus that they placed upon developing this one feature, with the additional Gem currency and the second Cash Shop to handle duplicates, is adding a revenue stream, but does not attract new players to the game.

The_Undefined wrote: »

67% out of 844 people have said no. I really hope ZOS takes note, but I'm afraid all they'll focus on is the 33% that say yes.

Honestly, they only care about the <1% that will say YES! YES! YES! I think that person commented here in the thread a while back, but I might be wrong.

Driving back to my point above, I would prefer they spend the development money attracting a few thousand new players, instead of spending development money making a real-money gambling system for a few dozen players. Even if that results in less overall revenue.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

How does this differ from those little mystery boxes you can buy in game stores, including those minecraft boxes? Contents are random and cost real money. What about baseball cards, football cards, any card game from Hearthstone to Magic?

Honestly, I think the Crown Crates come from Fallout Shelter. I suspect that Bethesda was stunned to find out how many people purchase Lunchboxes. I mean, on some level, they knew it would happen, but I think that reality blew them out of the water. If they do a fraction of the business with Crown Crates as it sounds like they did with Lunchboxes, the bean counters will be pleased enough to put new gold floor tiles down over the old tarnished ones.

Lysette wrote: »

I do not even have a clue what you mean by card game packs - I am not a gambler - the only card game I play is Qwen in Witcher 3 and not because I would like it, but to make people more likely to give me information and hints.

Magic card packs. You buy them looking for the rare drop, and toss away what you don't need. After a pretty short period of time, everything in the average card pack is something you don't need. If they sell Magic card packs in Germany, then it is unlikely that ZOS will run into any trouble at all.

Mercutio

Lysette wrote: »

I do not even have a clue what you mean by card game packs - I am not a gambler - the only card game I play is Qwen in Witcher 3 and not because I would like it, but to make people more likely to give me information and hints.

My kids (ages 7-12) are really into these things called "blind bags". I'd never heard of them till a month ago. They have little toys and trinkets in them based on games they like such as 'Five Nights at Freddies' and 'Minecraft'. I think I even saw some for 'The Walking Dead'.

The consumer doesn't know what they get till they open the package, hence the 'blind'. Some of the toys are more rare than others. My son got a 'Gold Freddy' recently which is the cat's meow apparently.

Edit: I'm with you on the gambling. I may buy a lottery ticket once a year, that's it. I don't understand the draw of these 'blind bags'. I told my kids: why not just wait till the toy you want goes up on Ebay and spend your allowance on it instead of getting all this crap you don't want?

Apparently I am an old geezer and 'not hip' to these newfangled trends.

ZOS_Ragnar

We have removed several threads that were off topic and nonconstructive. We understand that this is an issue that many of you are passionate about. However, please keep the conversation civil and constructive and on topic.

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

lordrichter wrote: »

aheck1111_ESO wrote: »

I'm in the camp that would gladly pay 2000-4000 Crowns for a cool mount, but am now concerned those will be RNG box exclusive.

It might be.

They have designed the Crown Crates like a game, which is to be expected from a company in an industry that makes games. The whole thing, including the Gems concept, is game play. The Crown Crates are sort of a Carnival game, and the players are trying to win that big stuffed animal.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

So if I'm understanding this correctly there are two camps that are against this?

1. Slippery slope to P2W and eventual early death of the game.

2. Preys on gambling addicts.

There is a third, and that is just that the Crown Store does not attract new players to the game. No one, or near enough for this conversation, goes to a play game because they have a cool Cash Shop. This means that the insane focus that they placed upon developing this one feature, with the additional Gem currency and the second Cash Shop to handle duplicates, is adding a revenue stream, but does not attract new players to the game.

The_Undefined wrote: »

67% out of 844 people have said no. I really hope ZOS takes note, but I'm afraid all they'll focus on is the 33% that say yes.

Honestly, they only care about the <1% that will say YES! YES! YES! I think that person commented here in the thread a while back, but I might be wrong.

Driving back to my point above, I would prefer they spend the development money attracting a few thousand new players, instead of spending development money making a real-money gambling system for a few dozen players. Even if that results in less overall revenue.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

How does this differ from those little mystery boxes you can buy in game stores, including those minecraft boxes? Contents are random and cost real money. What about baseball cards, football cards, any card game from Hearthstone to Magic?

Honestly, I think the Crown Crates come from Fallout Shelter. I suspect that Bethesda was stunned to find out how many people purchase Lunchboxes. I mean, on some level, they knew it would happen, but I think that reality blew them out of the water. If they do a fraction of the business with Crown Crates as it sounds like they did with Lunchboxes, the bean counters will be pleased enough to put new gold floor tiles down over the old tarnished ones.

Lysette wrote: »

I do not even have a clue what you mean by card game packs - I am not a gambler - the only card game I play is Qwen in Witcher 3 and not because I would like it, but to make people more likely to give me information and hints.

Magic card packs. You buy them looking for the rare drop, and toss away what you don't need. After a pretty short period of time, everything in the average card pack is something you don't need. If they sell Magic card packs in Germany, then it is unlikely that ZOS will run into any trouble at all.

This with the lunch boxes in Fallout Shelter could have truth to it actually - I was surprised to see that they have an actual cash shop in a game like Fallout Shelter.

Rohamad_Ali

No, don't ever add these into the game.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Just ignore trolls . Some people don't care if ZOS goes back on their word . They don't care if the cost of things go up and they just want to argue for argument sake . The facts remain , there is no game with this practice doing well , very much the opposite . Most everyone one of those games WAS doing well before fleecing customers . The stars are in alignment for F2P to show its ugly head next . How can we say that ? History with other MMOs ! You can't give people experience . You can't stop a troll from trolling either . Obviously if the majority of the room agrees on a issue and two or three are dismissive , you ignore the people with their heads in the sand ...

@Rohamad_Ali I think you miss the point. I think that lockboxes actually do well for the gaming company. It allows them to suction money from their customer like a tapeworm until eventually the customer bucks them altogether. They know that in general a gamer will start to grow less interested in their game after a while, but will likely trickle back and forth for years to come. Rather than lose them altogether, they (gaming companies) have sought a strategy which tries to take as much money as they can up front. While this engenders bad feelings by the gamer, the company looks at it as a fact that the gamer was going to leave anyway so it is better to take what they can get now. I really believe that is the strategy that is behind all of these gamble-methods existent in mmo's today. This explains why they have these graduated developments often from Lifetime/Subscriber to Buy-To-Play to Free-to-Play to gambling free for all to Dead game.

Games have a life cycle and the truth of the matter is they know this and want to suck as many dollars out of the system now that they can. I can't fault them for wanting to get as much as they can, but there really is a good and a bad way to do this. There's a reason the SWG emulators are still going strong (and are more or less free).

Thank you for taking the time to explain this side of things my friend . I do understand these are most profitable to the gaming companies . However , these are not profitable for Us the players as they are RNG based sales gimmicks . I do not liking to give "parasite" relationship example but I'm at a loss for describing things . It feels more invasive parasitic like say flees on camel then a mutual relationship parasite like kindly birds on Galápagos Islands pecking growths of turtle shell .

When generating revenue businesses can giving fair deals without used car cheap cigar smoking salesman techniques . It's reason now most new car places sell older cars with warranties and consumer satisfaction . Old practice went dead as cheap tactic fleeced customers and eventually going out of business .

Hand_Bacon

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

Lysette wrote: »

I do not even have a clue what you mean by card game packs - I am not a gambler - the only card game I play is Qwen in Witcher 3 and not because I would like it, but to make people more likely to give me information and hints.

Hearthstone, Magic the Gathering, ESO's own card game, Pokemon to name a few. You buy packs of cards for real money and there is a chance for a rare or legendary like card, but most of the time there is just crap or cards you already have. I don't see that as any different from the RNG loot boxes. Most of the time you'll get crap, but there is always a chance.

Rohamad_Ali

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Mercutio wrote: »

After reading most of this thread, can the majority of us agree on this statement:

"Have the lockboxes, but make everything also purchasable in the Crown Store as well."

Would that compromise suit most? For a rare mount you can spend 400 crowns for a random chance to get it, or 4000 in the store for a sure thing.

This would eliminate the gambling aspects yes . A much better way to swallow bad pill . Still a bad pill though .