What do you think of Crown Store Random boxes/Lottery box?

Moloch1514

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Lysette wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

aheck1111_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

aheck1111_ESO wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:

1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB

2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)

3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.

There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.

@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?

To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.

That is a very important distinction. Your $ transaction is for crowns. You get what is described in your transaction (x Crowns for y $), so no laws are broken.

Doesn't work like that. At least not in the US. You can convert cash into a play currency, and gambling laws still apply. The obvious example are casino chips.

Fair enough, I'm no lawyer! I'd love to see this challenged if possible, even if only in EU.

It is not about challenge to me - I think that several german laws will be broken by this, which are in place to protect customers and to punish predatory business practices. I see it as my duty to bring this to the attention of officials and those will then act on it - it is not in my hand then, but I will have done my duty and my conscience is satisfied. All other isn't up to me, but to german officials and eventually judges, how they will handle this - it is their duty and costs me nothing.

@Lysette, that's not what @aheck1111_ESO means by "challenged."

In this context, "challenged" is the act of opposing another party through legal action. EG: "It was challenged in court."

Ah, I didn't know this idiom, thank you for pointing it out.

Ah yep, that's what I meant! Sorry for the confusion @Lysette!

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

aheck1111_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

aheck1111_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

aheck1111_ESO wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:

1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB

2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)

3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.

There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.

@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?

To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.

That is a very important distinction. Your $ transaction is for crowns. You get what is described in your transaction (x Crowns for y $), so no laws are broken.

Doesn't work like that. At least not in the US. You can convert cash into a play currency, and gambling laws still apply. The obvious example are casino chips.

Fair enough, I'm no lawyer! I'd love to see this challenged if possible, even if only in EU.

It is not about challenge to me - I think that several german laws will be broken by this, which are in place to protect customers and to punish predatory business practices. I see it as my duty to bring this to the attention of officials and those will then act on it - it is not in my hand then, but I will have done my duty and my conscience is satisfied. All other isn't up to me, but to german officials and eventually judges, how they will handle this - it is their duty and costs me nothing.

@Lysette, that's not what @aheck1111_ESO means by "challenged."

In this context, "challenged" is the act of opposing another party through legal action. EG: "It was challenged in court."

Ah, I didn't know this idiom, thank you for pointing it out.

Ah yep, that's what I meant! Sorry for the confusion @Lysette!

In fairness, I did kinda bjork up the definition as well. @Lysette, it's not really an idiom, it's just an alternate meaning of "to challenge." It can be synonymous with, "to oppose."

Vrath

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can even give a number about how many people play lottery in Germany at all - those were 31.5% of the population who bought at least one ticket throughout the year 2011. So the absolute majority of people do not play in a lottery at all. That is what I call "normal" people - some of those who buy a ticket can be normal as well, if they play like once around their birthday or something like this - some people do that like this. But most do not gamble - this is just normal to not gamble.

Good to know the German superiority complex is still alive and well. These boxes aren't gambling. If they were, no one in the state of New York could participate. It is a lottery system, plain and simple. No one is forcing you to participate. And frankly, you're assumption of anyone that lines to take little risk with their own money as "abnormal" is disgusting and abhorrent.

Exactly some US states saw this with the daily football leagues recently. In WA I still have money owed to me on an account that I was carrying over to the next NFL year before the site got shut down in WA -. Off topic.

I agree with another poster, the pole is slanted a bit with no option to choose "I dont care as long as it's not p2w" or a middle ground. Only a small minority of any game visits the forums with any regularity let alone posts.

Many MMOs and mobile games offer something similar with all cosmetic item that operate in Europe and North America. It is a grab bag and you get an item for your purchase, you just dont know what it is. It might be a crappy item but you get something in return. ZOS hasnt shown any inclination to move towards p2w it seems unlikely that starts now unless they pull a Pearl Abyss.

The addiction angle is brought up in multiple of there forums as well to no avail, along with litigation. But lets be real no one is opening a litigation against ZOS. I'd be curious if any attorney would actually even take it up, it is likely not a winnable case if it was with any substantial settlement involved you can be sure someone would have already done it.

It is up to each of us to be responsible with our income and what we spend it on. Some people in SWTOR spend $500 on new hypercrates, who am I or anyone else to judge them or tell them it is wrong? If they can afford it, go for it. Good for them for doing something they enjoy and supporting a game they love.

Each person has to be responsible for themselves, the SoJ complex is a bit overkill when it comes to gaming. This is a business bottom line, if they need to do this to increase revenue so be it. It does not devalue the game or the community that is reaching.

The reality of this situation is nothing said in this thread is going to change the fact these are coming. There are 3 options, deal with it, bail or complain about it. Like most things in life.

The only thing that speaks is our wallets however it would be very vainglorious to think leaving the game is going to have any impact on this issue. If people think ZOS treats their players bad they havent been paying attention to Daum and Pearl Abyss with Black Desert.

Lastly, if people didn't buy these types of items they wouldn't be so prevalent in gaming today. Zos is just following the money making trend, a decision likely made by management to increase profits there is no villianous attempt to destroy lives, the game or the community.
If this is enough to make people stop playing sorry to see you go to me this is a rather petty annoyance, there are much larger issues that need to be addressed and are worth fighting for.

Mandragora

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

World of Warcraft is still listed as the biggest MMO out there and they have loot boxes so I guess there's no choice but for ZOS to add loot boxes to compete . WoW also went F2P so we can expect to see that as well in th future . Wow also has instant max level characters if you go back , so probably see that too at some point .

Open world PvP ? Well if there copying everything , maybe .

LOL, but seriously - I was thinking about it - a whole dark fantasy world is something, that WoW has above all other MMOs. A lot of players were crying about that in LOTRO. They mentioned open world PvP, but I think it is not really about PvP, but about dark PVE, as a side result of open world PvP.
To be able to play and roleplay a dark character with dark quests... that is the reason, why the dividing of the world worked in a white/dark world and not in the world of Elderscrolls, where the only really dark world is Oblivion. But my idea was, that if you would be able to finish the main quest as a follower of Molag Bal and play Silver in a really different version - to spread sickness, to try to murder a king and so on, and then to gain another - upgraded version - dark champion ranks, it would be atleast a bit close to this.
Also the reason, why thieves guild/dark brotherhood is so popular, is the possibility to roleplay a dark character. I don't know why I feel sick after being forced to help everybody, so I'm really glad for that

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Vrath wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I can even give a number about how many people play lottery in Germany at all - those were 31.5% of the population who bought at least one ticket throughout the year 2011. So the absolute majority of people do not play in a lottery at all. That is what I call "normal" people - some of those who buy a ticket can be normal as well, if they play like once around their birthday or something like this - some people do that like this. But most do not gamble - this is just normal to not gamble.

Good to know the German superiority complex is still alive and well. These boxes aren't gambling. If they were, no one in the state of New York could participate. It is a lottery system, plain and simple. No one is forcing you to participate. And frankly, you're assumption of anyone that lines to take little risk with their own money as "abnormal" is disgusting and abhorrent.

Exactly some US states saw this with the daily football leagues recently. In WA I still have money owed to me on an account that I was carrying over to the next NFL year before the site got shut down in WA -. Off topic.

I agree with another poster, the pole is slanted a bit with no option to choose "I dont care as long as it's not p2w" or a middle ground. Only a small minority of any game visits the forums with any regularity let alone posts.

Many MMOs and mobile games offer something similar with all cosmetic item that operate in Europe and North America. It is a grab bag and you get an item for your purchase, you just dont know what it is. It might be a crappy item but you get something in return. ZOS hasnt shown any inclination to move towards p2w it seems unlikely that starts now unless they pull a Pearl Abyss.

The addiction angle is brought up in multiple of there forums as well to no avail, along with litigation. But lets be real no one is opening a litigation against ZOS. I'd be curious if any attorney would actually even take it up, it is likely not a winnable case if it was with any substantial settlement involved you can be sure someone would have already done it.

It is up to each of us to be responsible with our income and what we spend it on. Some people in SWTOR spend $500 on new hypercrates, who am I or anyone else to judge them or tell them it is wrong? If they can afford it, go for it. Good for them for doing something they enjoy and supporting a game they love.

Each person has to be responsible for themselves, the SoJ complex is a bit overkill when it comes to gaming. This is a business bottom line, if they need to do this to increase revenue so be it. It does not devalue the game or the community that is reaching.

The reality of this situation is nothing said in this thread is going to change the fact these are coming. There are 3 options, deal with it, bail or complain about it. Like most things in life.

The only thing that speaks is our wallets however it would be very vainglorious to think leaving the game is going to have any impact on this issue. If people think ZOS treats their players bad they havent been paying attention to Daum and Pearl Abyss with Black Desert.

Lastly, if people didn't buy these types of items they wouldn't be so prevalent in gaming today. Zos is just following the money making trend, a decision likely made by management to increase profits there is no villianous attempt to destroy lives, the game or the community.
If this is enough to make people stop playing sorry to see you go to me this is a rather petty annoyance, there are much larger issues that need to be addressed and are worth fighting for.

Well, the german justice system is a little different - I do not need to find an attorney, I am just giving a hint that there are german laws violated which are based on §138 BGB, PAngV for hiding the actual price of the product and ISTG in regards of gambling, where the monopoly of the state for any game of chance is violated. §138 BGB covers immoral business offers/deals which can be considered a crime with up to 10 years in prison (which is the normal time for murder in the 2nd degree), just that you see how serious this kind of thing is taken in Germany. The whole thing is done by officials and if it goes to court a state's prosecutor is bringing this forward. All related costs are covered by tax payer's money.

Furthermore I can bring forward, that an "einstweilige Verfügung" would have to be considered, because of ZOS could remotely cover up evidence which is on the server and a judge might shut the server down and seal it, so that this evidence cannot be destroyed. So there could be a service interruption, possibly for many months - it just has to be argued well enough - and "intention" is now very easy to bring forward as well - ZOS has read all of these concerns of us and if they implement it nevertheless this is "intentionally" then.

Mandragora

No, don't ever add these into the game.

nimander99 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for your thoughts on the upcoming Crown Crates, everyone. Just want to clarify a few points -

First, Crown Crates will be available later this year, and will only include cosmetic or convenience items. You'll find things like potions and other consumables, pets, costumes, and - yes - sometimes even mounts. This will give you a chance to try and obtain previous limited time offers, or even some very unique items as Matt mentioned. It will not include things like armor or weapons.

In the event you get an item that you already own, you can exchange it for a currency called Crown Gems which will allow you to buy a different item of your choice.

So PvP and hardcore players don't have to care, but roleplayers, who need costumes will be forced to buy boxes with potions?
If I do PVE, I don't really care about PtW boxes or "only cosmetic". Because there is no other way really to have costumes, other then from the store - now the ones, which players missed, will be locked behind boxes?
I would prefer Professions section with different costumes there and some time limited return of the old ones, rather than this...

jircris11

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

if the RNG boxes do not effect my game play then i do not mind. those who do are more worried about them selves getting addicted to the gambling aspect of those boxes. the thrill of getting something good and the constant nagging of "one more"

Recremen

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Mandragora wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for your thoughts on the upcoming Crown Crates, everyone. Just want to clarify a few points -

First, Crown Crates will be available later this year, and will only include cosmetic or convenience items. You'll find things like potions and other consumables, pets, costumes, and - yes - sometimes even mounts. This will give you a chance to try and obtain previous limited time offers, or even some very unique items as Matt mentioned. It will not include things like armor or weapons.

In the event you get an item that you already own, you can exchange it for a currency called Crown Gems which will allow you to buy a different item of your choice.

So PvP and hardcore players don't have to care, but roleplayers, who need costumes will be forced to buy boxes with potions?
If I do PVE, I don't really care about PtW boxes or "only cosmetic". Because there is no other way really to have costumes, other then from the store - now the ones, which players missed, will be locked behind boxes?
I would prefer Professions section with different costumes there and some time limited return of the old ones, rather than this...

Ironically, the PvP crowd are HUGE investors in mounts and costumes. We're the ones who get to show them off the most. I have a feeling we're not as big into pets, though. >.>

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

jircris11 wrote: »

if the RNG boxes do not effect my game play then i do not mind. those who do are more worried about them selves getting addicted to the gambling aspect of those boxes. the thrill of getting something good and the constant nagging of "one more"

Yeah that's it and not the principle of the matter. They are selling exclusive items in random boxes to enhance the players gaming experience.

Thanks for opening our eyes. Wanting transparent purchases is a foolish thing to ask for.

/sarcasm

Come on, it's exploitation. Plain and simple. It's wrong.

GhostwalkerLD

No, don't ever add these into the game.

No. Absolutely NOT. I have seen what these "lockboxes" have done to every other MMO that put them in (regardless of what the devs always promise at first). NO. I do not want these in this game.

But hey, they went back on their "we will always stay subbed" promise, so I'm frankly not surprised that they went back on this one too. But that's why I"m no longer subbed.

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

[edited to remove reference to removed content]

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/4yweyl/tavern_day_2_new_infos_crown_store_loot_boxes/

"I'll start with the most discussed thing, you shoud first read the day 1 recap to not miss what this is about:
Crown Store loot boxes: I asked 4 questions I collected from this sub to Rich Lambert:
Will the boxes be pay2win? Answer: No. You won't be able to sell the boxes or the loot you get out of it to other players and also not to a NPC vendor."

Lysette

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Guess you do not have a single costume from the crown store nor any other item from there, otherwise you would know, that you cannot sell this stuff.

Graydon

Yes but I just want it to be pay to win items, plus cosmetics

Awww all the hurt feelings.

There is no official word. Not an official ZOS video.

Sorry guys. [SNIP]

[Edited for baiting]

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Graydon wrote: »

Awww all the hurt feelings.

There is no official word. Not an official ZOS video.

Sorry guys. [SNIP]

[Edited for baiting]

If you are just going to ignore all the information given at Gamescom as "not official", along with the actual mechanic for crown store items not being tradeable that is already in the game, then it is not really possible to strike an actual conversation.

Be well

JimT722

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Graydon wrote: »

Awww all the hurt feelings.

There is no official word. Not an official ZOS video.

Sorry guys. [snip]

[Edited for baiting]

People are upset because they care about the game. What game has been made better by the introduction of this. If these rng boxes for money are supported then that's what we will get. Is that good for the gaming industry? I say no.

Annalyse

No, don't ever add these into the game.

nimander99 wrote: »

Pretty soon we will start seeing in bold letters across our screens during play:

@suchandsuch JUST WON THE MOUNT OF EPIC RARITY ONLY OBTAINABLE VIA THE GAMBLING BOX!

This makes me sick. To see this coming to Tamriel makes me want to vomit. I love this game... But to see this coming... Well I guess that's that.

The day that happens (and I don't doubt it, happened when my last game brought in gamble boxes) I will be leaving the game.

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

Annalyse wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Pretty soon we will start seeing in bold letters across our screens during play:

@suchandsuch JUST WON THE MOUNT OF EPIC RARITY ONLY OBTAINABLE VIA THE GAMBLING BOX!

This makes me sick. To see this coming to Tamriel makes me want to vomit. I love this game... But to see this coming... Well I guess that's that.

The day that happens (and I don't doubt it, happened when my last game brought in gamble boxes) I will be leaving the game.

I think this has a low chance of happening in ESO because of what happened when they introduced the dogs and they tried flashing text to market them to us. People threw a fit, and they removed the announcement in just a few hours. Nothing of the sort ever happened again.

But of course, things change.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Abeille wrote: »

Annalyse wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Pretty soon we will start seeing in bold letters across our screens during play:

@suchandsuch JUST WON THE MOUNT OF EPIC RARITY ONLY OBTAINABLE VIA THE GAMBLING BOX!

This makes me sick. To see this coming to Tamriel makes me want to vomit. I love this game... But to see this coming... Well I guess that's that.

The day that happens (and I don't doubt it, happened when my last game brought in gamble boxes) I will be leaving the game.

I think this has a low chance of happening in ESO because of what happened when they introduced the dogs and they tried flashing text to market them to us. People threw a fit, and they removed the announcement in just a few hours. Nothing of the sort ever happened again.

But of course, things change.

Wait, what dogs?

Abeille

No I dislike the random crown store boxes, to much of a gamble

starkerealm wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Annalyse wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Pretty soon we will start seeing in bold letters across our screens during play:

@suchandsuch JUST WON THE MOUNT OF EPIC RARITY ONLY OBTAINABLE VIA THE GAMBLING BOX!

This makes me sick. To see this coming to Tamriel makes me want to vomit. I love this game... But to see this coming... Well I guess that's that.

The day that happens (and I don't doubt it, happened when my last game brought in gamble boxes) I will be leaving the game.

I think this has a low chance of happening in ESO because of what happened when they introduced the dogs and they tried flashing text to market them to us. People threw a fit, and they removed the announcement in just a few hours. Nothing of the sort ever happened again.

But of course, things change.

Wait, what dogs?

Oh right, I think they were already removed. It's hard to keep track of all the stuff being removed lately. The Bravil Retriever and the Shornhelm Shepherd, they were pets being sold for I think 400 Crowns. When they were introduced, ZOS not only put it on the launcher, they also broadcasted throughout the game, in big yellow letters, for us to check them out and "adopt" a dog or something like that.

I was in Cyrodiil when it happened, and people were really angry. We used the /feedback tool and then went to reddit and to the forums to complain. I only saw it two times, then never again. ZOS removed it pretty fast.

starkerealm

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Abeille wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Annalyse wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Pretty soon we will start seeing in bold letters across our screens during play:

@suchandsuch JUST WON THE MOUNT OF EPIC RARITY ONLY OBTAINABLE VIA THE GAMBLING BOX!

This makes me sick. To see this coming to Tamriel makes me want to vomit. I love this game... But to see this coming... Well I guess that's that.

The day that happens (and I don't doubt it, happened when my last game brought in gamble boxes) I will be leaving the game.

I think this has a low chance of happening in ESO because of what happened when they introduced the dogs and they tried flashing text to market them to us. People threw a fit, and they removed the announcement in just a few hours. Nothing of the sort ever happened again.

But of course, things change.

Wait, what dogs?

Oh right, I think they were already removed. It's hard to keep track of all the stuff being removed lately. The Bravil Retriever and the Shornhelm Shepherd, they were pets being sold for I think 400 Crowns. When they were introduced, ZOS not only put it on the launcher, they also broadcasted throughout the game, in big yellow letters, for us to check them out and "adopt" a dog or something like that.

I was in Cyrodiil when it happened, and people were really angry. We used the /feedback tool and then went to reddit and to the forums to complain. I only saw it two times, then never again. ZOS removed it pretty fast.

Yeah, those were both pulled. I forgot about the pet messages though. I think it happened while I was offline.

Doctordarkspawn

No, don't ever add these into the game.

JimT722 wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

Awww all the hurt feelings.

There is no official word. Not an official ZOS video.

Sorry guys. [sinp]

[Edited for baiting]

People are upset because they care about the game. What game has been made better by the introduction of this. If these rng boxes for money are supported then that's what we will get. Is that good for the gaming industry? I say no.

Dont give him the traffic.

People are asking for specific lines in the video when Gina has come onto this thread to clarrify how the system will work. It's semantics. They want this thread shut down.

potirondb16_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Loll could actually be nice that some item you bought ingame goes to a foundation/charity (money gather from the sell)

Random Box ! STOP WITH THAT !! Have you identify your playerbase as person with gambling issue what's up with the RNG in everything !

The_Undefined

No, don't ever add these into the game.

67% out of 844 people have said no. I really hope ZOS takes note, but I'm afraid all they'll focus on is the 33% that say yes.

We could have a compromise. Like I posted, rotate any item in the lootboxes for the Crown Store occasionally, even past items / mounts. This wouldn't be a stupid arrangement or make the lootboxes worthless. People who don't want to pay the more expensive price can wait until their chance at a cheaper lootbox. People who don't want to see items completely blocked by a gamble wall can pay the extra price.

CROWN GEMS IS NOT THE ANSWER TO THE GAMBLE WALL. The point is, the lootboxes cannot be ignored if you want the item.

Lastly, all the sales that could've been given to the items in the lootboxes if they had been on the crown store will be lost due to burned players or those smart enough to see how completely unfair this system is to the player. So instead of having a steady stream of Crown Store purchases, ZOS has taken a gamble at screwing over players with this atrocious system.

ZOS, please give us a compromise here. Do not lock items behind this gamble. You want to get the money from those that would purchase these items? Throw them in there. You ALSO want to get money from those that would not purchase these lootboxes? Throw the items on the Crown Store too. This is a WIN / WIN for you.

Renoaku_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

EVEN IF ESO Still worked on Windows Vista, and wasn't broken as the developers ruined it for some players running older systems, I wouldn't return to it even if I had windows 10 this instance simply because of RNG Boxes, I Don't care if they are just for cosmetics...

There is a reason RNG or "Gachas" were banned in certain countries around the world because its gambling just using a Loop Hole that you get an item every single time so it is allowed to get away with it although such Gachas or RNG Boxes have came to so many U.S Games where there are currently no laws against it.

IMO however anyone playing ESO should take a look at this and stop playing, I played "Arche Age" and other MMO's longer than ESO to know that "RNG Boxes" kill the game eventually it comes down to "LIMITED TIME ITEMS" which can only be open for a limited time where you have to spend hundreds of dollars to get what you want and do it within a time limit for seasonal items and such, even games like Black Desert desrt ruined by Cosmetic prices costing about $30+ every single costume.

Just because Korean Company do RNG boxes doesn't mean ESO Should, and I am strictly against such RNG boxes in games instead players should be allowed to buy "Costumes whenever they want." which are put into a game straight out for money. This is a reason why I quit Guild Wars 2 they make everything so difficult to obtain, including costumes having to spend real cash to get them all within "LIMITED TIME" or lose them.

Instead the game should be developed around "Buying Cosmetic Items" Straight out that a person wants to buy allow them to be sold on the in game markets for in game cash, and make the game better in many ways that ESO felt so dull to begin with when I last played it rather than adding RNG Boxes for profit.

How about adding "UNLIMITED CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION as long as Premium subscriber " "Expansion Content Everyone can buy for a flat rate" "Cosmetic Packs" and letting players enjoy the game for once? Similiar to what "Rift Does" the one thing Trion got right in that game.

Maybe ESO wont be "PAY 2 WIN" but its now " PAY 2 ENJOY" like Arche Age did making players have to buy $100 packs for exclusive items its the reason I quit the game Let my 7 premium accounts go with Thousands of USD worth of land because they decided to screw people over constantly. ESO is no different, and its a shame that even new games released like Riders OF Icarus have to also be Pay 2 Enjoy or Pay 2 Win.

Coolio_Wolfus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for your thoughts on the upcoming Crown Crates, everyone. Just want to clarify a few points -

First, Crown Crates will be available later this year, and will only include cosmetic or convenience items. You'll find things like potions and other consumables, pets, costumes, and - yes - sometimes even mounts. This will give you a chance to try and obtain previous limited time offers, or even some very unique items as Matt mentioned. It will not include things like armor or weapons.

In the event you get an item that you already own, you can exchange it for a currency called Crown Gems which will allow you to buy a different item of your choice.

I would say NO to these crates, but felt I had to post based on the FACT that ZOS will release them anyway, so am trying to suggest a better way of handling the future limited exclusives in these.

I would prefer these to have non exclusive items, at least after a limited duration* the 'exclusives' should be available in the regular crown store.

This would give the option to get a 'hopefully cheaper' crate chance, but the eventual option to buy the item directly - I could live with a higher price than the crate for crate exclusives after said limited exclusivity*.

* Limited exclusivity duration - The time span we currently get for limited time items, allocated as a crate exclusive duration.

This would allow for both sides of the I only have a few crowns it's worth a shot and the I only want ... exclusive item, a chance to get what they want...

Dro'Mathra Senche Mount - Crate price w/Random chance Vs 4k Crowns

---

...with them getting the funds to spend on taking Oculus to court... See quote below.

gameinformer.com - Mike Futter on August 22, 2016 at 01:42 PM wrote:

ZeniMax Lawsuit Against Oculus...
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2016/08/22/zenimax-lawsuit-against-oculus-now-direcly-accuses-john-carmack-of-theft.aspx
https://www.scribd.com/document/321898098/Zenimax-v-Oculus-Amended-Complaint

Hand_Bacon

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

How does this differ from those little mystery boxes you can buy in game stores, including those minecraft boxes? Contents are random and cost real money. What about baseball cards, football cards, any card game from Hearthstone to Magic?

AlienSlof

No, don't ever add these into the game.

Don't buy those either, despite being a Minecraft fan.

Ourorboros

When I saw this poll I thought it was someone's lame idea as a crown store feature. I had no idea it would be a real thing. It seems like a variation of online gambling. I don't have money to toss at lottery boxes, but don't care if people with means (or no sense) spend like crazy on them. It's their choice. However, I will be very displeased if these boxes are the only way to get the yet-to-be-released Ice Wolf and Red Wolf mounts. I have crowns to spend on them, just patiently waiting for their release. If these mounts were only in lotto boxes, I would have to weigh the entertainment value of ESO to the greed of zos. Hard to say if my disappointment from such a decision regarding unreleased mounts would be enough to pull the plug on ESO and play any one of a multitude of games bought cheap on Steam that will surely also be a lot of fun.

Enodoc

Yes I like the random boxes idea so Long as they only have cosmetics

starkerealm wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

The_Undefined wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

The_Undefined wrote: »

In either case, they're not taking these out. I can only hope the response to this feedback is a compromise with the items that they're putting in there and other options to obtain them, such as limited runs back on the Crown Store.

I really think the same thing. I don't think there's a chance of them removing these RNG gambling boxes, but I really do hope they at least reconsider making items exclusively available in them.

I think you may have misunderstood what I said. I DON'T want items to be exclusive in them. If they're exclusive in the lootboxes, there's no other option for players to get them and they'll be locked behind a gamble wall. I'm saying, a good compromise would be to rotate items out of the lootboxes onto the crown store.

That way, players that don't want to play the expensive price on the crown store, could have a chance with the lower priced lootbox.

Also, 400 crowns is not at all a reasonable price. The chance is going to be so low, that price is ridiculous. The price for lootboxes should be 50-100 crowns. Yeah that's too cheap for the consumables, but it was ZOS's decision to put these ridiculous things in the game in the first place.

No sorry, I did understand what you meant. I agree that I do NOT want exclusive items in these boxes. It was me that poorly worded my post The_Undefined

Actually, the exclusive items is the only issue I hold with these RNG boxes. If the items were available on the crown store (even limited time/rotated, and at a ridiculous price) I would be more okay with that. As I can make an informed purchase, and not just gamble my money away.

Oddly enough, this is also where I'm at.

Same here. I don't mind the boxes in theory, but I don't like the idea of box-only exclusives.

dodgehopper_ESO

No, don't ever add these into the game.

starkerealm wrote: »

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

I think what seems to be the main issue is the way it might be implemented. That's where some valid points can be made. Maybe they should have it so that gold keys can sometimes drop key or chest fragments so that we have a way to gain these items if you put time into it.

That's actually a far worse situation. You'll often see people defending games like STO as not being pay to win, because you can grind for months to get all of the endgame crap from the store that is flat out, statistically, better than anything you can obtain without interacting with the real money currencies. And... it's technically true. Except, it is still pay to win. Because you will get massively better items from the lockboxes and the store than from any other source, and because of how the grind currency is mashed into the game everywhere, it creates a situation where there's a serious incentive for someone to buy it (from other players) with cash. The game becomes horrifically pay to win, even if you're getting someone else to foot the bill.

In this case, you'd see it used as a justification for items that were statistically better than anything else in the game getting dropped into the lucky bags. Maybe upgrade mats for a new, above legendary, gear quality, or new sets with very attractive bonus combinations. But, you'd have people babbling going, "but, it's not pay to win, because if you collect 10 key fragments, that drop a maximum of once per week, with a drop chance of 1:500k, then you can get a chest, and maybe get one of those awesome things." "Or spend 40 bucks on chests?" "Yeah, but it's not pay to win, see?"

This is why I say lockboxes sucked the soul out of STO. The game is operated more like a Ferengi Consortium than a Roddenberry vision (not that I'm in agreement with Roddenberry on a great many things). The point is that the lockbox system killed the fun of the game and changed the community in ways that were less than pleasant. STO is only fun to muck about with new missions there every so often and logoff. They've lost a lot of their heavier fans due to the greed. Nothing at all is meaningful on that game because it is based upon continued gambling boxes in a 3 month cycle. If they link these boxes to something overpowered, it will ultimately kill pvp, and much of this game as well. STO is not the only game I've seen this kind of thing before. Its common practice nowadays on many games, specifically because it is so effective in parting people with money for the least amount of effort.