starkerealm wrote: »This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:
1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB
2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)
3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.
There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.
@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?
To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.
Please, ZoS. I don't want to leave ESO but you're forcing me into a corner with this
aheck1111_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:
1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB
2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)
3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.
There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.
@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?
To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.
That is a very important distinction. Your $ transaction is for crowns. You get what is described in your transaction (x Crowns for y $), so no laws are broken.
starkerealm wrote: »This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:
1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB
2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)
3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.
There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.
@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?
To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.
Well, if it can be established that this is actually causing harm in the real world - which should be easy to do - then there is the connection required for §138 - which does not even require to be gambling at all, any form of such immoral business deal offer would work - this can be seen differently by different judges of course - so it is kind of a gamble to try to bring this down by law - but I rather gamble like this, fulfilling my duty as a lawful citizen, than to let go on this and look the other way.
starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:
1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB
2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)
3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.
There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.
@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?
To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.
Well, if it can be established that this is actually causing harm in the real world - which should be easy to do - then there is the connection required for §138 - which does not even require to be gambling at all, any form of such immoral business deal offer would work - this can be seen differently by different judges of course - so it is kind of a gamble to try to bring this down by law - but I rather gamble like this, fulfilling my duty as a lawful citizen, than to let go on this and look the other way.
It might actually be easier to make the case against other games that are already using this system, and have an actual history of related torts.
The_Undefined wrote: »The_Undefined wrote: »In either case, they're not taking these out. I can only hope the response to this feedback is a compromise with the items that they're putting in there and other options to obtain them, such as limited runs back on the Crown Store.
I really think the same thing. I don't think there's a chance of them removing these RNG gambling boxes, but I really do hope they at least reconsider making items exclusively available in them.
I think you may have misunderstood what I said. I DON'T want items to be exclusive in them. If they're exclusive in the lootboxes, there's no other option for players to get them and they'll be locked behind a gamble wall. I'm saying, a good compromise would be to rotate items out of the lootboxes onto the crown store.
That way, players that don't want to play the expensive price on the crown store, could have a chance with the lower priced lootbox.
Also, 400 crowns is not at all a reasonable price. The chance is going to be so low, that price is ridiculous. The price for lootboxes should be 50-100 crowns. Yeah that's too cheap for the consumables, but it was ZOS's decision to put these ridiculous things in the game in the first place.
No sorry, I did understand what you meant. I agree that I do NOT want exclusive items in these boxes. It was me that poorly worded my post @The_Undefined
Actually, the exclusive items is the only issue I hold with these RNG boxes. If the items were available on the crown store (even limited time/rotated, and at a ridiculous price) I would be more okay with that. As I can make an informed purchase, and not just gamble my money away.
starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:
1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB
2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)
3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.
There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.
@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?
To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.
Well, if it can be established that this is actually causing harm in the real world - which should be easy to do - then there is the connection required for §138 - which does not even require to be gambling at all, any form of such immoral business deal offer would work - this can be seen differently by different judges of course - so it is kind of a gamble to try to bring this down by law - but I rather gamble like this, fulfilling my duty as a lawful citizen, than to let go on this and look the other way.
It might actually be easier to make the case against other games that are already using this system, and have an actual history of related torts.
Not really, those do not have their servers in germany by a good reason, but for example in the UK - where they can get a casino license - in germany one cannot get a casion license, the state has the monopoly on this.
starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:
1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB
2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)
3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.
There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.
@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?
To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.
Well, if it can be established that this is actually causing harm in the real world - which should be easy to do - then there is the connection required for §138 - which does not even require to be gambling at all, any form of such immoral business deal offer would work - this can be seen differently by different judges of course - so it is kind of a gamble to try to bring this down by law - but I rather gamble like this, fulfilling my duty as a lawful citizen, than to let go on this and look the other way.
It might actually be easier to make the case against other games that are already using this system, and have an actual history of related torts.
Not really, those do not have their servers in germany by a good reason, but for example in the UK - where they can get a casino license - in germany one cannot get a casion license, the state has the monopoly on this.
Might be worth double checking. There are a lot of games that use lockboxes. It'd be surprising if none of them are operating out of a German server cluster. Also, subject matter jurisdiction may apply if the companies are simply doing business in the country. So charges may be in order anyway.
starkerealm wrote: »aheck1111_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:
1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB
2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)
3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.
There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.
@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?
To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.
That is a very important distinction. Your $ transaction is for crowns. You get what is described in your transaction (x Crowns for y $), so no laws are broken.
Doesn't work like that. At least not in the US. You can convert cash into a play currency, and gambling laws still apply. The obvious example are casino chips.
starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:
1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB
2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)
3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.
There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.
@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?
To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.
Well, if it can be established that this is actually causing harm in the real world - which should be easy to do - then there is the connection required for §138 - which does not even require to be gambling at all, any form of such immoral business deal offer would work - this can be seen differently by different judges of course - so it is kind of a gamble to try to bring this down by law - but I rather gamble like this, fulfilling my duty as a lawful citizen, than to let go on this and look the other way.
It might actually be easier to make the case against other games that are already using this system, and have an actual history of related torts.
Not really, those do not have their servers in germany by a good reason, but for example in the UK - where they can get a casino license - in germany one cannot get a casion license, the state has the monopoly on this.
Might be worth double checking. There are a lot of games that use lockboxes. It'd be surprising if none of them are operating out of a German server cluster. Also, subject matter jurisdiction may apply if the companies are simply doing business in the country. So charges may be in order anyway.
I made an edit, please read that as well.
aheck1111_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »aheck1111_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:
1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB
2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)
3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.
There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.
@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?
To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.
That is a very important distinction. Your $ transaction is for crowns. You get what is described in your transaction (x Crowns for y $), so no laws are broken.
Doesn't work like that. At least not in the US. You can convert cash into a play currency, and gambling laws still apply. The obvious example are casino chips.
Fair enough, I'm no lawyer! I'd love to see this challenged if possible, even if only in EU.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for your thoughts on the upcoming Crown Crates, everyone. Just want to clarify a few points -
First, Crown Crates will be available later this year, and will only include cosmetic or convenience items. You'll find things like potions and other consumables, pets, costumes, and - yes - sometimes even mounts. This will give you a chance to try and obtain previous limited time offers, or even some very unique items as Matt mentioned. It will not include things like armor or weapons.
In the event you get an item that you already own, you can exchange it for a currency called Crown Gems which will allow you to buy a different item of your choice.
aheck1111_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »aheck1111_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:
1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB
2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)
3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.
There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.
@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?
To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.
That is a very important distinction. Your $ transaction is for crowns. You get what is described in your transaction (x Crowns for y $), so no laws are broken.
Doesn't work like that. At least not in the US. You can convert cash into a play currency, and gambling laws still apply. The obvious example are casino chips.
Fair enough, I'm no lawyer! I'd love to see this challenged if possible, even if only in EU.
aheck1111_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »aheck1111_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:
1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB
2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)
3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.
There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.
@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?
To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.
That is a very important distinction. Your $ transaction is for crowns. You get what is described in your transaction (x Crowns for y $), so no laws are broken.
Doesn't work like that. At least not in the US. You can convert cash into a play currency, and gambling laws still apply. The obvious example are casino chips.
Fair enough, I'm no lawyer! I'd love to see this challenged if possible, even if only in EU.
It is not about challenge to me - I think that several german laws will be broken by this, which are in place to protect customers and to punish predatory business practices. I see it as my duty to bring this to the attention of officials and those will then act on it - it is not in my hand then, but I will have done my duty and my conscience is satisfied. All other isn't up to me, but to german officials and eventually judges, how they will handle this - it is their duty and costs me nothing.
starkerealm wrote: »aheck1111_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »aheck1111_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »This thing has a lot of facts, which go against german laws - and the EU servers in Frankfurt are subject to these laws:
1. it is most likely an immoral business offer/deal designed in a way to achieve a significantly higher price by abusing a weakness of a contract partner - this is covered by §138 BGB
2. due to the randomization it is not clear what the price of the product is - this is against the Preisangabenverordnung (PAngV)
3. gambling in any form offered by a private organization is banned in Germany since 2008 - Interstate treaty on gambling (ISTG) was updated in 2012, but in germany the state has a monopoly on this kind of thing and online gambling is banned.
There might be other arguments to put forward, but these 3 are severe enough already.
@Lysette, I'm curious, what's the procedure for bringing a civil tort over a criminal violation to trial in Germany?
To be straight up, I'm Canadian and definitely not a lawyer... but in theory.. you are never paying money for the box. You are purchasing crowns. You are never "actually" paying money for the RNG box... Obviously, I'm not sure of the laws, but in the weird ways law works I imagine there is some ridiculous loophole.
That is a very important distinction. Your $ transaction is for crowns. You get what is described in your transaction (x Crowns for y $), so no laws are broken.
Doesn't work like that. At least not in the US. You can convert cash into a play currency, and gambling laws still apply. The obvious example are casino chips.
Fair enough, I'm no lawyer! I'd love to see this challenged if possible, even if only in EU.
It is not about challenge to me - I think that several german laws will be broken by this, which are in place to protect customers and to punish predatory business practices. I see it as my duty to bring this to the attention of officials and those will then act on it - it is not in my hand then, but I will have done my duty and my conscience is satisfied. All other isn't up to me, but to german officials and eventually judges, how they will handle this - it is their duty and costs me nothing.
@Lysette, that's not what @aheck1111_ESO means by "challenged."
In this context, "challenged" is the act of opposing another party through legal action. EG: "It was challenged in court."
Doctordarkspawn wrote: »We just hit 50 pages and there is just a sea of orange.
If this is ignored I dont know if I'm sticking around.
There's not a MMO out there which has been made better by introducing RNG lottery boxes into the game. They are nothing other than a method for milking the player base, either because the game is sinking and it's a desparate revenue stream, or because of sheer greed.
In every game you hear the same "don't like it don't buy it" and "it's only cosmetic, what's the problem" defences. But try telling that to the games where new content development has become totally dominated by the RNG boxes and where the devs are constantly filling the boxes with half-baked junk with worse and worse odds on winning anything worthwhile.
RNG boxes are not audited, the odds are not published anywhere and you've no way of knowing if you have a genuine chance of winning anything or if it's totally fixed.
Until such time as the laws and regulations that govern real world lotteries, games of chance and gambling etc are properly extended to digital products, it's buyer beware because it's essentially a 'wild west' of non-regulation.
The_Undefined wrote: »There's not a MMO out there which has been made better by introducing RNG lottery boxes into the game. They are nothing other than a method for milking the player base, either because the game is sinking and it's a desparate revenue stream, or because of sheer greed.
In every game you hear the same "don't like it don't buy it" and "it's only cosmetic, what's the problem" defences. But try telling that to the games where new content development has become totally dominated by the RNG boxes and where the devs are constantly filling the boxes with half-baked junk with worse and worse odds on winning anything worthwhile.
RNG boxes are not audited, the odds are not published anywhere and you've no way of knowing if you have a genuine chance of winning anything or if it's totally fixed.
Until such time as the laws and regulations that govern real world lotteries, games of chance and gambling etc are properly extended to digital products, it's buyer beware because it's essentially a 'wild west' of non-regulation.
I completely agree with this. Like I've said in my previous posts, there is NOTHING good that comes out of this for players. This does not make the game better, b/c we don't know where our money is going to in these purchases. "Of course it's going back to the game," right, well look at all the other games that added cash grabs or games that started out with it, they're not any better for it. It's just really frustrating to be squabbling amongst community members imo. People are fighting those that are trying to challenge this just b/c I honestly don't know. They don't care, they think people are being dramatic, or w/e. Each and everytime I've seen this system implemented, the game has gone downhill REALLY fast and the quality players that made the game fun left.
Why risk it? More players are joining the game, picking up subs for DLCs or just buying them outright, and there's even a gold edition new players will most likely pick up. Profits are good, but to go for profits without ethics is unacceptable.
Seriously, greed sucks.
starkerealm wrote: »The_Undefined wrote: »There's not a MMO out there which has been made better by introducing RNG lottery boxes into the game. They are nothing other than a method for milking the player base, either because the game is sinking and it's a desparate revenue stream, or because of sheer greed.
In every game you hear the same "don't like it don't buy it" and "it's only cosmetic, what's the problem" defences. But try telling that to the games where new content development has become totally dominated by the RNG boxes and where the devs are constantly filling the boxes with half-baked junk with worse and worse odds on winning anything worthwhile.
RNG boxes are not audited, the odds are not published anywhere and you've no way of knowing if you have a genuine chance of winning anything or if it's totally fixed.
Until such time as the laws and regulations that govern real world lotteries, games of chance and gambling etc are properly extended to digital products, it's buyer beware because it's essentially a 'wild west' of non-regulation.
I completely agree with this. Like I've said in my previous posts, there is NOTHING good that comes out of this for players. This does not make the game better, b/c we don't know where our money is going to in these purchases. "Of course it's going back to the game," right, well look at all the other games that added cash grabs or games that started out with it, they're not any better for it. It's just really frustrating to be squabbling amongst community members imo. People are fighting those that are trying to challenge this just b/c I honestly don't know. They don't care, they think people are being dramatic, or w/e. Each and everytime I've seen this system implemented, the game has gone downhill REALLY fast and the quality players that made the game fun left.
Why risk it? More players are joining the game, picking up subs for DLCs or just buying them outright, and there's even a gold edition new players will most likely pick up. Profits are good, but to go for profits without ethics is unacceptable.
Seriously, greed sucks.
Well, it actually devalues the game. I mean, makes the game less valuable as a product. MMOs require a community to keep going. All that random blathering in zone that's tempered by longtime players who can actually provide coherent information? What happens when they start to leave? When no one can actually answer the questions getting asked in those zones? And, granted, that's an extreme example, but it's one I've logged into on other games that went to boxes and gutted their community. When the vets leave, the game becomes less accessible for newbies.
starkerealm wrote: »The_Undefined wrote: »There's not a MMO out there which has been made better by introducing RNG lottery boxes into the game. They are nothing other than a method for milking the player base, either because the game is sinking and it's a desparate revenue stream, or because of sheer greed.
In every game you hear the same "don't like it don't buy it" and "it's only cosmetic, what's the problem" defences. But try telling that to the games where new content development has become totally dominated by the RNG boxes and where the devs are constantly filling the boxes with half-baked junk with worse and worse odds on winning anything worthwhile.
RNG boxes are not audited, the odds are not published anywhere and you've no way of knowing if you have a genuine chance of winning anything or if it's totally fixed.
Until such time as the laws and regulations that govern real world lotteries, games of chance and gambling etc are properly extended to digital products, it's buyer beware because it's essentially a 'wild west' of non-regulation.
I completely agree with this. Like I've said in my previous posts, there is NOTHING good that comes out of this for players. This does not make the game better, b/c we don't know where our money is going to in these purchases. "Of course it's going back to the game," right, well look at all the other games that added cash grabs or games that started out with it, they're not any better for it. It's just really frustrating to be squabbling amongst community members imo. People are fighting those that are trying to challenge this just b/c I honestly don't know. They don't care, they think people are being dramatic, or w/e. Each and everytime I've seen this system implemented, the game has gone downhill REALLY fast and the quality players that made the game fun left.
Why risk it? More players are joining the game, picking up subs for DLCs or just buying them outright, and there's even a gold edition new players will most likely pick up. Profits are good, but to go for profits without ethics is unacceptable.
Seriously, greed sucks.
Well, it actually devalues the game. I mean, makes the game less valuable as a product. MMOs require a community to keep going. All that random blathering in zone that's tempered by longtime players who can actually provide coherent information? What happens when they start to leave? When no one can actually answer the questions getting asked in those zones? And, granted, that's an extreme example, but it's one I've logged into on other games that went to boxes and gutted their community. When the vets leave, the game becomes less accessible for newbies.
starkerealm wrote: »The_Undefined wrote: »There's not a MMO out there which has been made better by introducing RNG lottery boxes into the game. They are nothing other than a method for milking the player base, either because the game is sinking and it's a desparate revenue stream, or because of sheer greed.
In every game you hear the same "don't like it don't buy it" and "it's only cosmetic, what's the problem" defences. But try telling that to the games where new content development has become totally dominated by the RNG boxes and where the devs are constantly filling the boxes with half-baked junk with worse and worse odds on winning anything worthwhile.
RNG boxes are not audited, the odds are not published anywhere and you've no way of knowing if you have a genuine chance of winning anything or if it's totally fixed.
Until such time as the laws and regulations that govern real world lotteries, games of chance and gambling etc are properly extended to digital products, it's buyer beware because it's essentially a 'wild west' of non-regulation.
I completely agree with this. Like I've said in my previous posts, there is NOTHING good that comes out of this for players. This does not make the game better, b/c we don't know where our money is going to in these purchases. "Of course it's going back to the game," right, well look at all the other games that added cash grabs or games that started out with it, they're not any better for it. It's just really frustrating to be squabbling amongst community members imo. People are fighting those that are trying to challenge this just b/c I honestly don't know. They don't care, they think people are being dramatic, or w/e. Each and everytime I've seen this system implemented, the game has gone downhill REALLY fast and the quality players that made the game fun left.
Why risk it? More players are joining the game, picking up subs for DLCs or just buying them outright, and there's even a gold edition new players will most likely pick up. Profits are good, but to go for profits without ethics is unacceptable.
Seriously, greed sucks.
Well, it actually devalues the game. I mean, makes the game less valuable as a product. MMOs require a community to keep going. All that random blathering in zone that's tempered by longtime players who can actually provide coherent information? What happens when they start to leave? When no one can actually answer the questions getting asked in those zones? And, granted, that's an extreme example, but it's one I've logged into on other games that went to boxes and gutted their community. When the vets leave, the game becomes less accessible for newbies.
I can agree, seen it in a few games post RNG boxes, vet players leave and not long after all there is left is the 'whales' who do nothing but stand afk in major cities all day and the naive new players asking in zone chat 'were do we get keys for lock boxes ?' if they are very lucky someone will answer 'cash shop' ...then it all goes quiet.............