So there's an addon that allows you to see other player's loot upon drop now...

Jeremy

cjthibs wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

ESO_Must_Be_F2P wrote: »

guys just ignore him
you saw what happend
he lied, and wont answer on direct question, because he wont be catched on his lie
obvious some kind of clever troll for me
i saw alot like him

So let me get this straight - you unprovoked (because I had said nothing to you) accuse me of lying and call me a whiny noob and I'm the troll supposedly according to you?

lol

It seems to me someone may need to look in the mirror if they want to see who the troll here is. Me? I am simply discussing the topic of this thread. You're the one who is name calling and trying to make this discussion about me instead of the topic.

Lies should always be exposed. With or without provocation.

Go ahead and outline these numerous occurrences of harassment caused by this addon, please, go on.

Nobody has a right to spout nonsense and not be called on it.

It's not nonsense. I have already read several accounts of people who have had to deal with harassment due to this addon.

I hope you don't expect me to go scour the forums and dig them up for you. If you want to believe I am lying, that's fine. I don't really care to be quite honest with you.

There was a guy on here just yesterday who was talking about how someone was talking about doing all kinds of things to his mother because he would not trade him his item. lol

I believe CODE was in that discussion as well. So ask him - he may remember that as well. So no - I am not lying, nor is it just me and OP who has dealt with this.

cjthibs

Jeremy wrote: »

...I don't really care to be quite honest with you.

THIS is the most amazing attempt at supporting a claim ever.
If this was happening to the extent you claim there would be no need to 'scour' the forums. People love to complain....haven't you noticed?

Cryptical

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

This thread ......

I read the first page, saw a bunch of people that didn't know how the add on worked... Flipped to the last page and... Huh?

Jeremy

cjthibs wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

...I don't really care to be quite honest with you.

THIS is the most amazing attempt at supporting a claim ever.
If this was happening to the extent you claim there would be no need to 'scour' the forums. People love to complain....haven't you noticed?

You're taking my comment out of context.

In my post, I actually did support my claim or what ever - and brought up another example just yesterday of someone who had to deal with harassment as a result of this add on. I even told the poster that code65536 was in that discussion as well, so to ask him if he doesn't believe me. He should be able to vouch for it.

But yes - otherwise I really don't care if you think I am lying. I know I am not. So why should I care? If you expect me to care what some anonymous video game poster thinks of me you are going to be disappointed.

TreeHugger1

oh pls guys dont be so angry,this add on can be really good...in the right hands:)

lets imagine the next scenario:
u just ended some Vdungeon/trial with your "best" friend and he got an amazing trait that will make him so rich!!
and then u whisper to him:"hi guy I am so sorry u got that trait maybe u will get a better one next time,anyway I got it with impen(lying u also got it prosperous)".
sorry for bad english,hope it helps u look at things differently:)
oh and I downloaded that add on thx to this thread,i am going to troll ppl all the weekend:)

Jeremy

TreeHugger1 wrote: »

oh pls guys dont be so angry,this add on can be really good...in the right hands:)

lets imagine the next scenario:
u just ended some Vdungeon/trial with your "best" friend and he got an amazing trait that will make him so rich!!
and then u whisper to him:"h guy I am so srry u got that trait maybe u will get a better one next time,anyway I got it with impen(lying u also got it prosperous)".
sorry for bad english,hope it helps u look at things differently:)
oh and I downloaded that add on thx to this thread,i am going to troll ppl all the weekend:)

lol

Well don't worry, you aren't the only one who will be using this addon for trolling purposes.

code65536

Jeremy wrote: »

I believe CODE was in that discussion as well. So ask him - he may remember that as well. So no - I am not lying, nor is it just me and OP who has dealt with this.

There was only one horror story in that entire thread, of someone who demanded a piece and threw a tantrum when he didn't get it. The person, in that same post, also shared the story of a good loot sharing outcome.

Nobody has ever said that it's impossible to have bad experiences. But they are rare. I've been in PUGs and in organized groups since BoP trading was enabled. And I will reiterate that I have had nothing but good experiences. The people sharing their anecdotes in yesterday's thread and today's thread are all sharing positive stories.

Frankly, it is completely, utterly asinine and irrational to latch onto one bad outcome and use that as a call to preempt the vast, vast majority of good outcomes. There have not been "numerous" horror stories. There has been just one.

There are all kinds of bad experiences that I can come across in a MMO. On multiple occasions, when in a PUG, people have blamed me, the tank, for their mistakes, including once when a DD sent me countless profanity-laced hate tells because he killed one of Nerien'eth's wraiths too early and instead of blaming himself for dropping his ultimate prematurely, he blamed me for doing my job of bringing the wraiths to the boss. On multiple occasions, I've had people shoot me hate tells in Cyrodiil after I kill them. On multiple occasions, I've had people shoot me hate tells when I reach a resource node before them. But in all my time playing ESO, I have never had a bad experience with someone who used a loot addon. Not saying that it's impossible. But that it's very uncommon, esp. relative to other sources of potential conflict. And yes, I still PUG, I still gather resources in popular spots, and I still step into PvP now and then. Because a few bad incidents don't outweigh all the good experiences and all the fun that I've had.

And as I've stated yesterday, it's in someone's interest to play nice and suck up to the person who got the loot--they have the final say in the matter, you're not going to convince them to trade it if you are a jerk about it, and if you throw a tantrum, you accomplish nothing except guaranteeing that you'll never get a trade in the future. Knowing someone has a piece of loot that you want actually incentives you to be extra-nice to that person. Yes, there will be sociopaths who will go ballistic, but they are probably also going to go ballistic in other ways, too, like blaming you for mistakes they make in the dungeon.

Jeremy

cjthibs wrote: »

Where are these throngs of players experiencing harassment...so far I see one guy who, I can only assume, just doesn't want to be equitable with loot... (Which is the purpose of both BOP Trading, and addons showing loot.)

And that's part of the issue right there.

Certain individuals are going to feel as if the person who has their desired loot is not being equitable, and that is going to justify their behavior in their own minds. And when a person feels justified - there is really no end to the amount of abuse that is going to follow.

And I still do not understand why you think it is just me who has had to deal with this. I am not the author of this OP - so there is two right there. And there was a guy on here yesterday who was discussing how he had to deal with some guy going after his mother because of it. lol

Code65536 was also in that discussion so you can ask him to vouch for that if you want proof because he commented at that poster as well. So he probably remembers.

Given my very limited time on this forum - I think the fact I can already specifically point to several examples says that this is actually happening and that it's not all just a figment of my imagination.

And I never said throngs by the way. What I said is I expect it is happening more than 1% of the time.

Jeremy

code65536 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I believe CODE was in that discussion as well. So ask him - he may remember that as well. So no - I am not lying, nor is it just me and OP who has dealt with this.

There was only one horror story in that entire thread, of someone who demanded a piece and threw a tantrum when he didn't get it. The person, in that same post, also shared the story of a good loot sharing outcome..

So there you go. I wasn't lying - and it wasn't just me and the OP who have had to deal with this.

There have been other examples as well, as the one both you and me saw yesterday.

ESO_Must_Be_F2P

only one = numerous

okay
and he told he didnt lied

SanTii.92

Jeremy wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Others in this thread have outlined the usefullness of these addons...

Which I found to be minor conveniences. Nothing to warrant the annoyance this addon contributes to.

Ah, see how flippantly he dismisses points that people try to make? We can play that game, too.

He has outlined a number of potential pitfalls. Which I found to be nothing more than minor inconveniences. Nothing to warrant trashing the good experiences that most posters in this thread have talked about.

Of course, the key difference here is that he is speaking speculatively, with virtually no personal experience in the matter. And the people who are defending are the people who have the experience and are not pulling phantom scenarios out of their imaginations. At this point, seeing how the last 4 pages of this thread has devolved into a back-and-forth between one person and everyone else with that one person dismissing all reasonable discourse, I'm going to follow my own advice from earlier in this thread and just ignore the troll.

The problem with your post is these are not phantom scenarios. They happen. Other players are being harassed because of this addon allowing other players to see what their personal loot is.

To say this isn't happening is just denying reality.

Now if you believe I was being flippant I don't know what to tell you. I've tried my best to be respectful in this discussion. And it has not always been easy.

You are you aware that harrasment is a direct violation of the Tos and a bannable offense, right? If so, why don't you do the community a favour and you start to report those players you are afraid to encounter so often and we all get rid of such a toxic behaviour; instead of trying to ruin the enjoyment some are getting out of the feature this addon provides.

Taleof2Cities

It's a bit disheartening to see more flaming and lack of constructive posts (even after the first thread was locked).

I also saw a couple of woeful gross generalizations:

Randactyl wrote: »

>Suggests a wholesale change in fundamental game systems.

Yeah, either completely silly or trolling like crazy. Nothing more to see from this guy, folks.

liv3mind wrote: »

Please ban everyone who does not want me to install a publicly available addon on my private pc for use in a game I purchased for my own private enjoymemt, as it's an invasion of my privacy.

The OP in both threads aren't talking about add-ons or game systems as a whole. They're referring to this specific loot add-on ... which, in their opinion, is an invasion of privacy.


@code65536 is correct in that add-ons sincerely do add a convenience and spectrum of enjoyment for players.

To use a specific example, he mentions buff and de-buff tracking add-ons. Those are a very good example of a convenience factor that benefits nearly every player that's in any type of group, raid, or trial run. Consequently, I have never seen any complaint about a buff/de-buff add-on in the forums. Players generally consider this a useful and non-invasive add-on. Moreover, console players are now pleading with ZOS to add a buff/de-buff tracker to the console UI. It must be a good. In fact, I use the add-on.

But, for the loot add-on, we're starting to get complaints from a handful of players in the forums.

So, let me ask the question again:

If the add-on functionality that views group member loot did not exist, how easily could group members obtain that info while still in group or in the dungeon ... without the add-on?

Again, not looking for a ban-hammer, here ... but I'm not convinced this issue is as clear-cut as most think it is.

Sasky

It's rather ironic that the change allowing BoP trading causes people to not want to share drop information anymore.

As one poster noted, this has existed through incredibly rare loot (worth the equivalent of millions of current gold) without issue. Perhaps it's because it's limited-trade gear without a set market value.

Keep in mind BoP item trading was to increase sharing of group drops. It'd be counter-productive to limit information about those drops, and ZOS should actually look at including that option in the vanilla UI.

Daveheart

I can't believe that anyone would actually find it reasonable to compare an add-on that shares what loot drops for your fellow group members to bars banning guns. Anything that you've said after that should be immediately disregarded by anyone else reading this thread Jeremy.

newtinmpls

code65536 wrote: »

This is an officially-documented API.
This is information that is being sent to the player all the time.
Without addons, this stream of incoming information is simply ignored. Addons just allow you to see information that has always been there this entire time..

I am not disputing that much information is sent to my computer.

What I am saying is that without an addon, I do not see this information. It is not intended to display.

What I am hearing some people to say is that they do not like the behavior that they notice when this information is displayed (by use of an addon).

That having to be put in this position is uncomfortable.

I liken it to the gank/trashtalk kind of rough and tumble coarse interactions that one often sees in PVP, defended by PvPers and when PvEers express a dislike for it, they are generally treated even more poorly.

I don't like the idea of the "grow a thick skin" often harsh PvP attitude creeping into PvE so I'm sad to see this addon function.

And just like some people put "no soliciting" signs on their door because even though they COULD say 'no' to salesmen, surveyors and Jehovah's Witnesses, they really don't want to put up with it in the first place.

newtinmpls

code65536 wrote: »

We've presented the good from these kinds of addons. You ignore them.

We've told you that our experiences don't support the extreme levels of misanthropy you have.

So, does the fact that you have not had a negative experience mean that no one has?

code65536

newtinmpls wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

We've presented the good from these kinds of addons. You ignore them.

We've told you that our experiences don't support the extreme levels of misanthropy you have.

So, does the fact that you have not had a negative experience mean that no one has?

If you had taken the time to read my posts, you would see that I had also written, "Nobody has ever said that it's impossible to have bad experiences. But they are rare." and "But in all my time playing ESO, I have never had a bad experience with someone who used a loot addon. Not saying that it's impossible. But that it's very uncommon, esp. relative to other sources of potential conflict."

Never have I said that it's impossible. But comparing the number of bad experiences I've had (zero), the number of bad experiences I've read about (just one so far), and compared to the number of other kinds of people-being-bad experiences (Cyrodiil hate, dungeon blame games, resource harvest fights, etc.) that I've personally had and have read about, loot sharing problems are very uncommon. There is virtually no warrant for concern, and no reasonable person actually believes that the miniscule probability of a problem is worth shutting down the numerous upsides. It is utter folly to design a system around the 1% of baddies out there--if we were to do that, then we might as well not even make MMOs.

Blackbird71

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

You can still talk to group members or ask them if they got a certain piece of loot you are after without this addon.

I thought we were eliminating ways hostile people might try to be hostile. That means chat channels go bye bye. I mean obviously i could just ignore. Just like i could ignore these people. But the problem never would have come up if there were no chat channels.

The game actually gives us the option to disable any and all chat channels. The problem here is that we have no way of disabling someone else's addon that they use to interfere with our gameplay.

And by "interfere," I'm not talking about the people who may politely ask once about a particular item you picked up that keeps being used as an example in this thread of why there is nothing wrong with the addon. I'm talking about the jerks who constantly pester you about it with multiple messages, threats, etc., who may follow you around, and if you ignore them, may hit you up with alts or get their friends/guildies to start messaging you until you give in or log off. We all know that they exist; don't pretend that they don't.

Im sorry, but I really cant imagine a situation where someone goes so crazy about your loot that they buy alt accounts to pester you etc.
If youre so worried about your precious loot, just tell people that you need it for your chars and wont give it away. If its not ok for your group, join another one. Easy.

Who said anything about buying alt accounts specifically for that purpose? Do you think players don't already have alt accounts? Do you not think that players with obsessive personalities would be more likely to already have such accounts? It's really not that big of a leap, and frankly it's backed up by personal experience.

And as to your second point, as I stated before, the issue is not the reasonable characters who will respond to a simple statement; it is the ones who will not let it go. If you don't believe that such players exist, then you really haven't spent much time in MMOs.

NoMoreChillies

I had Dragon set ring drop, and immediately got a msg from trial member asking if i wanted to sell it.
I said yes price 90k. He said he would rather wait.
I placed ring on guild store and sold it for 99k within 24hrs.

Sellers just need to know your values

Blackbird71

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

You can still talk to group members or ask them if they got a certain piece of loot you are after without this addon.

I thought we were eliminating ways hostile people might try to be hostile. That means chat channels go bye bye. I mean obviously i could just ignore. Just like i could ignore these people. But the problem never would have come up if there were no chat channels.

The game actually gives us the option to disable any and all chat channels. The problem here is that we have no way of disabling someone else's addon that they use to interfere with our gameplay.

And by "interfere," I'm not talking about the people who may politely ask once about a particular item you picked up that keeps being used as an example in this thread of why there is nothing wrong with the addon. I'm talking about the jerks who constantly pester you about it with multiple messages, threats, etc., who may follow you around, and if you ignore them, may hit you up with alts or get their friends/guildies to start messaging you until you give in or log off. We all know that they exist; don't pretend that they don't.

It is interesting you list turning off chat as a way to solve the problem of being harassed on chat.

Then list a bunch of stuff someone might do if you didnt give them loot. The exact same stuff they could do if you ignore them on chat. Are you fighting to get the addon on and chat removed? That is a brave jump forward i suppose and would solve a lot of harassment issues.

Way to try to twist words. You used the example of harassment in chat to make the clearly ridiculous suggestion that chat should be removed as a (false) demonstration of the absurdity of removing the ability to see personal loot. I merely pointed out that there is already an option for participating in chat channels or not, so why should there not be a parallel option to the display of personal loot? If you are claiming the two are equivalent and should be treated equally (even if you were doing so mockingly), then you have to be consistent in your application of equality in comparison.

Tia413

Some of you are clearly stuck in a bubble obviously. Almost every MMO I have played thus far has had this as a built-in in the game itself. When you group up everything a person in your group is automatically shown. Rift has it, WoW has it, Swtor has it, PWI has it, FW has it (just to name a few).

And I use one of these Loot addons in this game myself, because it makes my game play a lot easier on me.
Ofc I only group up with the person whom turned me on to this game, so my use of the addon is not a big thing between the 2 of us.
I use it because it is a convenience item for me.
I have bad eye sight. So i use a Minimap addon (which allows me to resize the minimap to where I can see where I am going),and I use a Quest Tracker addon because I can see it better than the built in one.
Both of these are QoL convenience items for me.

But because of the size I have to expand my Minimap to and the Quest tracker having to both be on the Right Side of my screen it overlaps the built in Loot Drop UI. So I use a Loot addon that shows it in my chat box, So I know what is picked up without having to stop every few seconds to open my Inventory to look at what was just picked up. For me it saves me from getting killed every few minutes also.

I play this game with Physical Disabilities. I use my number pad for all my skills and my arrow keys to move with. I don't like that I have to play this way, but its how I have to live. I deal with it.

But asking to have an addon banned/removed just because you don't know how to say No or how to add someone to your Ignore List is Discriminating to people like me who play this game with disabilities and use these addons to help make the game easier to play.


* EDIT: Typo

Sophieous

I don't mind it really, saves time to have to link the stuff you got. Then again I only run with friends, then again I genuinely don't even bother or mind while doing trials. It's personal preference.

LadyNalcarya

@Blackbird71 wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

You can still talk to group members or ask them if they got a certain piece of loot you are after without this addon.

I thought we were eliminating ways hostile people might try to be hostile. That means chat channels go bye bye. I mean obviously i could just ignore. Just like i could ignore these people. But the problem never would have come up if there were no chat channels.

The game actually gives us the option to disable any and all chat channels. The problem here is that we have no way of disabling someone else's addon that they use to interfere with our gameplay.

And by "interfere," I'm not talking about the people who may politely ask once about a particular item you picked up that keeps being used as an example in this thread of why there is nothing wrong with the addon. I'm talking about the jerks who constantly pester you about it with multiple messages, threats, etc., who may follow you around, and if you ignore them, may hit you up with alts or get their friends/guildies to start messaging you until you give in or log off. We all know that they exist; don't pretend that they don't.

Im sorry, but I really cant imagine a situation where someone goes so crazy about your loot that they buy alt accounts to pester you etc.
If youre so worried about your precious loot, just tell people that you need it for your chars and wont give it away. If its not ok for your group, join another one. Easy.

Who said anything about buying alt accounts specifically for that purpose? Do you think players don't already have alt accounts? Do you not think that players with obsessive personalities would be more likely to already have such accounts? It's really not that big of a leap, and frankly it's backed up by personal experience.

And as to your second point, as I stated before, the issue is not the reasonable characters who will respond to a simple statement; it is the ones who will not let it go. If you don't believe that such players exist, then you really haven't spent much time in MMOs.

So what?
There are people in games who harass or stalk female gamers, and its absolutely awful and unacceptable. But its not a legit reason to ban all male gamers from the game, forbid them to message females at all, or something like that. Because most of them, you know, are adequate.
And the maniac you've described (that would go nuts because someone refused to give him an item) is VERY likely to start drama because of anything. With unadequate people like this, you never know...
As I said, addons cannot harm people, theyre just tools. Asking to ban them is like asking to ban all kitchen knives because someone killed someone with such knife... And in case of addons, the worst thing that can possibly happen is some petty chat drama, not a murder or something.

Draxys

Or you could just tell those people no instead of getting another useful add on taken away. Block them if they persist to the point of annoyance, pretty simple.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Blackbird71 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Blackbird71 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

You can still talk to group members or ask them if they got a certain piece of loot you are after without this addon.

I thought we were eliminating ways hostile people might try to be hostile. That means chat channels go bye bye. I mean obviously i could just ignore. Just like i could ignore these people. But the problem never would have come up if there were no chat channels.

The game actually gives us the option to disable any and all chat channels. The problem here is that we have no way of disabling someone else's addon that they use to interfere with our gameplay.

And by "interfere," I'm not talking about the people who may politely ask once about a particular item you picked up that keeps being used as an example in this thread of why there is nothing wrong with the addon. I'm talking about the jerks who constantly pester you about it with multiple messages, threats, etc., who may follow you around, and if you ignore them, may hit you up with alts or get their friends/guildies to start messaging you until you give in or log off. We all know that they exist; don't pretend that they don't.

It is interesting you list turning off chat as a way to solve the problem of being harassed on chat.

Then list a bunch of stuff someone might do if you didnt give them loot. The exact same stuff they could do if you ignore them on chat. Are you fighting to get the addon on and chat removed? That is a brave jump forward i suppose and would solve a lot of harassment issues.

Way to try to twist words. You used the example of harassment in chat to make the clearly ridiculous suggestion that chat should be removed as a (false) demonstration of the absurdity of removing the ability to see personal loot. I merely pointed out that there is already an option for participating in chat channels or not, so why should there not be a parallel option to the display of personal loot? If you are claiming the two are equivalent and should be treated equally (even if you were doing so mockingly), then you have to be consistent in your application of equality in comparison.

Twist your words? The arguement being made is that this addon needs to be broken because it can be used to harass people. Seems pretty straight forward. If that is the standard set then other things that can be used to harass people need to be stopped like chat.

You said there is a solution already in place to stop chat harassment. I would also argue it is the same solution in place to stop any problems you might have with people and this addon.

But that isnt good enough for some. Since you then you went further to add stalking scenarios and things that could happen because of this addon in and attempt to prove that this addon is so much worse. All the things you listed could also bypass the solution to stopping chat harassment.

Im not trying to be silly or ridiculous. What I am trying to do is point out that there is a system in the game that is used daily to harass more people then this addon will ever do. So if this addon needs to be removed because of harassment then there are several systems that need to go.

Sophieous

I think you're being overly dramatic when suggesting the add on should be broken cus it encourages harassment. they can be avoided with a simple 'No' or a simple "Ignore".

No reason to go to such extreme extends. I like using this add on, with whatever comes with it, others like it too. You can use it in a healthy way. No reason to create drama cus one person apparently 'harassed' someone. You can get harassed in all forms in this game, so let's just break the game? Wtf am i reading? You can simply not let this happen if you do the things stated above. End of story.

[Edit to remove insensitive content]

altemriel

Transairion wrote: »

Given how quick the addon that allowed you to see other players DPS (among other things) was disapproved by Zenimax, will this receive a similar reaction?

I'll admit its gotten kind of annoying to, literally seconds after a boss has died to be receiving whispers from players with the addon wanting the the piece I just got. I mean darnit, let me see what the heck it even is first! A little privacy, I only just got the thing I'll link the stuff I don't want when I'm good and ready!

what is the name of this addon pls?

ESO_Must_Be_F2P

its not working anymore

Jaronking

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Maybe a lot of you people need to go back to playing single player games where you are not bothered.

Please this because players like this are ruining the game for a lot of other players.

Cously

First lesson of being an Alpha Male: Learn to say no! There is no problem with people seeing the loot. That is common in most games where there are Roll systems. A real violation of player privacy in my opinion would be reveal their Friends & Ignore list. Compare that with the loot case and you will understand there is no problem what so ever.