So there's an addon that allows you to see other player's loot upon drop now...

Transairion

Given how quick the addon that allowed you to see other players DPS (among other things) was disapproved by Zenimax, will this receive a similar reaction?

I'll admit its gotten kind of annoying to, literally seconds after a boss has died to be receiving whispers from players with the addon wanting the the piece I just got. I mean darnit, let me see what the heck it even is first! A little privacy, I only just got the thing I'll link the stuff I don't want when I'm good and ready!

Nifty2g

Doubt it this add on has been around for over a year

timidobserver

This has been around for a while.

wayfarerx

This is not new, it has been around forever. It makes perfect sense to me that my character can see you pick up a maul off of a dead enemy.

"Hey guys look over there!" * inconspicuously decapitates the corpse of the boss *

Callous2208

Yea I always wondered about how that one would be received post dungeon trading. Had it myself for a while. Actually it's just a piece of a larger UI add on. FTC maybe? Can't remember.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Been around forever. Never used it, but since there are a few BOG items I am after, I just might. Haha.

All you have to do in that scenario is say "no thank you" or "make me an offer I can't refuse." Problem solved.

Transairion

wayfarerx wrote: »

This is not new, it has been around forever. It makes perfect sense to me that my character can see you pick up a maul off of a dead enemy.

"Hey guys look over there!" * inconspicuously decapitates the corpse of the boss *

Yet it's not part of the base game you can just enable at a whim, you essentially have to download an addon in order to snoop on other players.

Addons that effect you are fine, addons that effect players other than you is a no no. Why would someone possibly need to know what every group member is getting as a drop? If you ask and they don't tell you, there's good reason for that.

If someone in the street asks if I have a toaster and I don't reply, that doesn't give them the right to break into my house to find out. It's just plain creepy.

All you have to do in that scenario is say "no thank you" or "make me an offer I can't refuse." Problem solved.

Other people knowing private information without you sharing said information is the problem... BoP item trading has just blown the cover on it since now people are whispering "hey you want to sell that?" as soon as it drops.


It didn't fill me with confidence another topic about this got closed with a Z response but no actual comment on this... can't really see how knowing other players DPS is a no-no, but this is fine?

Averya_Teira

Transairion wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

This is not new, it has been around forever. It makes perfect sense to me that my character can see you pick up a maul off of a dead enemy.

"Hey guys look over there!" * inconspicuously decapitates the corpse of the boss *

Yet it's not part of the base game you can just enable at a whim, you essentially have to download an addon in order to snoop on other players.

Addons that effect you are fine, addons that effect players other than you is a no no. Why would someone possibly need to know what every group member is getting as a drop? If you ask and they don't tell you, there's good reason for that.

If someone in the street asks if I have a toaster and I don't reply, that doesn't give them the right to break into my house to find out. It's just plain creepy.

All you have to do in that scenario is say "no thank you" or "make me an offer I can't refuse." Problem solved.

Other people knowing private information without you sharing said information is the problem... BoP item trading has just blown the cover on it since now people are whispering "hey you want to sell that?" as soon as it drops.


It didn't fill me with confidence another topic about this got closed with a Z response but no actual comment on this... can't really see how knowing other players DPS is a no-no, but this is fine?

It shouldn't be private information .... Logically as people have said above, you can see the other character picking up a freeking chestplate out of a corpse...

Transairion

It shouldn't be private information .... Logically as people have said above, you can see the other character picking up a freeking chestplate out of a corpse...

The game has functioned fine for 2+ years without this being needed in the base game, and I've yet to encounter a game with personal loot (like ESO) where you can actually see what others players get... the whole point of personal loot is so that (unlike other games) you're not sitting around rolling numbers to divide up the loot.

What's the difference between knowing what loot someone gets, and outright being able to pull up their character sheet? Look at where they've put all their CP, Attributes etc? The addon that let you see other player's DPS (main function was your personal DPS, IIRC) was disowned by ZOS and had to be modified by the creator to remain usable.

If the information isn't publically viewable in the base game, you shouldn't be able to slap on an addon to see that stuff and it's really creepy that this is even a thing to begin with. Worry about your own character stats, loot, DPS whatever... don't snoop on other players.

clayandaudrey_ESO

Wasn't a thread on this just closed?

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Transairion wrote: »

If someone in the street asks if I have a toaster and I don't reply, that doesn't give them the right to break into my house to find out. It's just plain creepy.

Actually it is more like someone in the street asking you if you have a toaster, you not answering, and them responding, Sir I can see it, you are holding a toaster in your hands.

Not creepy at all. Closer to mildly amusing.

Tib

Transairion wrote: »

If someone in the street asks if I have a toaster and I don't reply, that doesn't give them the right to break into my house to find out. It's just plain creepy.

What? That's just an incredibly bad comparison.

If somebody sees you carrying a toaster on the street, do you accuse them of intruding your privacy? That's a much more accurate one rofl :P

Transairion

Actually it is more like someone in the street asking you if you have a toaster, you not answering, and them responding, Sir I can see it, you are holding a toaster in your hands.

Not creepy at all. Closer to mildly amusing.

What? That's just an incredibly bad comparison.

If somebody sees you carrying a toaster on the street, do you accuse them of intruding your privacy? That's a much more accurate one rofl :P

Er no it is not, because ESO's loot isn't publically viewable except for your own personal loot.

"Do you have a toaster?"

"....."

"Sir I just looked in the back of your car and you do indeed have a brand new toaster"

"What the hell were you doing near my car?"

"Want to sell that toaster? I'll trade you this wooden blender for it"


You literally cannot see other people's loot in ESO without snooping via an addon, or asking like a normal person might.

idk

Nifty2g wrote: »

Doubt it this add on has been around for over a year

+1

Shadesofkin

Transairion wrote: »

It shouldn't be private information .... Logically as people have said above, you can see the other character picking up a freeking chestplate out of a corpse...

The game has functioned fine for 2+ years without this being needed in the base game, and I've yet to encounter a game with personal loot (like ESO) where you can actually see what others players get... the whole point of personal loot is so that (unlike other games) you're not sitting around rolling numbers to divide up the loot.

What's the difference between knowing what loot someone gets, and outright being able to pull up their character sheet? Look at where they've put all their CP, Attributes etc? The addon that let you see other player's DPS (main function was your personal DPS, IIRC) was disowned by ZOS and had to be modified by the creator to remain usable.

If the information isn't publically viewable in the base game, you shouldn't be able to slap on an addon to see that stuff and it's really creepy that this is even a thing to begin with. Worry about your own character stats, loot, DPS whatever... don't snoop on other players.

LUI has always had this as part of its addon functionality, I'm really surprised anyone is just now noticing.

Personally I don't see a problem with it, I think I get why you do, you feel as if they're stepping on your tail so to speak by bugging you about your gear drops. In any proper guild run though we all link our stuff anyways because we like each other, so it's rarely an issue with my guild.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Transairion wrote: »

Actually it is more like someone in the street asking you if you have a toaster, you not answering, and them responding, Sir I can see it, you are holding a toaster in your hands.

Not creepy at all. Closer to mildly amusing.

What? That's just an incredibly bad comparison.

If somebody sees you carrying a toaster on the street, do you accuse them of intruding your privacy? That's a much more accurate one rofl :P

Er no it is not, because ESO's loot isn't publically viewable except for your own personal loot.

"Do you have a toaster?"

"....."

"Sir I just looked in the back of your car and you do indeed have a brand new toaster"

"What the hell were you doing near my car?"

"Want to sell that toaster? I'll trade you this wooden blender for it"


You literally cannot see other people's loot in ESO without snooping via an addon, or asking like a normal person might.

I disagree. While it is true that i have to have an addon to see it. It is something ESO does and is working as intended. The game is designed this way. Now you may not like it, but to say it is sneaky or snooping is silly. It was the way it was designed.

Transairion

LUI has always had this as part of its addon functionality, I'm really surprised anyone is just now noticing.

We only recently got BoP trading within the group, so previously "unavailable" loot has been opened up: now if someone gets an Aether Hat you always wanted, you can pester them for it instead of just being jealous.

I didn't even know this addon existed before Update 11 added the BoP trading, but within this short time I've already been bugged multiple times via whispers/messages by people asking for loot I haven't shared. I can only see it becoming more popular by people wanting certain drops they can't get themselves.

I disagree. While it is true that i have to have an addon to see it. It is something ESO does and is working as intended. The game is designed this way. Now you may not like it, but to say it is sneaky or snooping is silly. It was the way it was designed.

If it's part of ESO's "hidden code" and cannot be enabled WITHOUT the use of addon, then I would say no you're not intended to be able to see or use it at all. The only loot that shows up in the base game is your own loot.

Shadesofkin

Transairion wrote: »

LUI has always had this as part of its addon functionality, I'm really surprised anyone is just now noticing.

We only recently got BoP trading within the group, so previously "unavailable" loot has been opened up: now if someone gets an Aether Hat you always wanted, you can pester them for it instead of just being jealous.

I didn't even know this addon existed before Update 11 added the BoP trading, but within this short time I've already been bugged multiple times via whispers/messages by people asking for loot I haven't shared. I can only see it becoming more popular by people wanting certain drops they can't get themselves.

You could always do what I do. In the beginning of a dungeon/raid state that you will only be open to trades of things you don't want and any asking for things that you do want should be filed up their derrieres

Also, most of the reason why LUI is suddenly so prevalent is that we've lost FTC as a regularly updated Add-on. If FTC was still being updated this wouldn't have become the regular alternative.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Transairion wrote: »

LUI has always had this as part of its addon functionality, I'm really surprised anyone is just now noticing.

We only recently got BoP trading within the group, so previously "unavailable" loot has been opened up: now if someone gets an Aether Hat you always wanted, you can pester them for it instead of just being jealous.

I didn't even know this addon existed before Update 11 added the BoP trading, but within this short time I've already been bugged multiple times via whispers/messages by people asking for loot I haven't shared. I can only see it becoming more popular by people wanting certain drops they can't get themselves.

I disagree. While it is true that i have to have an addon to see it. It is something ESO does and is working as intended. The game is designed this way. Now you may not like it, but to say it is sneaky or snooping is silly. It was the way it was designed.

If it's part of ESO's "hidden code" and cannot be enabled WITHOUT the use of addon, then I would say no you're not intended to be able to see or use it at all. The only loot that shows up in the base game is your own loot.

So you feel we should disable all addons then? They all use ESOs 'hidden' code. I can tell exactly how much health you have. That is far more creepy then any imaginary loot scenario you can come up with.

That is like someone breaking into your house while you are asleep drugging you and the doing all sorts of entertaining things to you to find out how healthy you are without you knowing. Far more scary then finding out what is in your house.

Transairion

So you feel we should disable all addons then? They all use ESOs 'hidden' code. I can tell exactly how much health you have. That is far more creepy the. Any loot scenario.

That is like someone breaking into your house while you are asleep drugging you and the doing all sorts of ebtertaining things to you to find out how healthy you are without you knowing. Far more scary then finding out what is in your house.

There's a big difference between an addon that, say, puts a fish icon on your map VS an addon that let's you see how another player does stuff with their personal character and gives that information away to you without their consent. Since you could, yes, actually ask them that stuff. Rather than asking (and giving them a choice in the matter whether to give said information) you're just viewing it anyway no matter what they wanted.

The "see group member DPS" addon was disavowed by ZOS and changed because it led to harassment. Seeing other player's personal loot, some could argue, has already led to harassment. Better to just do away with it so it can't do more harm than good.

I mean, someone explain to me really, why does anyone need to see another players loot if you're not going to ask or whisper them for the stuff you want? Just for curiosity? You've got your own loot to worry about.

Reorx_Holybeard

Transairion wrote: »

So you feel we should disable all addons then? They all use ESOs 'hidden' code. I can tell exactly how much health you have. That is far more creepy the. Any loot scenario.

That is like someone breaking into your house while you are asleep drugging you and the doing all sorts of ebtertaining things to you to find out how healthy you are without you knowing. Far more scary then finding out what is in your house.

There's a big difference between an addon that, say, puts a fish icon on your map VS an addon that let's you see how another player does stuff with their personal character and gives that information away to you without their consent. Since you could, yes, actually ask them that stuff. Rather than asking (and giving them a choice in the matter whether to give said information) you're just viewing it anyway no matter what they wanted.

The "see group member DPS" addon was disavowed by ZOS and changed because it led to harassment. Seeing other player's personal loot, some could argue, has already led to harassment. Better to just do away with it so it can't do more harm than good.

I mean, someone explain to me really, why does anyone need to see another players loot if you're not going to ask or whisper them for the stuff you want? Just for curiosity? You've got your own loot to worry about.

The problem is you can use the "harassment" thing for just about anything:

• Hearing other players voice can lead to harassment.
• Seeing other players text chat can lead to harassment.
• Seeing other players emotes can lead to harassment.
• Seeing other players animations can lead to harassment.
• Seeing other players can lead to harassment.

So I say we vote to just get rid of this whole "multiplayer" thing anyways.

NolaArch

It doesn't bother me. Prior to a dungeon or trial, I'll say, "I'm after X set from here. If you need any other sets I get, just let me know. If you're up to trade pieces I'm looking for, please send me a message after the dungeon/trial." Seems to work out really well without feeling hounded.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Transairion wrote: »

So you feel we should disable all addons then? They all use ESOs 'hidden' code. I can tell exactly how much health you have. That is far more creepy the. Any loot scenario.

That is like someone breaking into your house while you are asleep drugging you and the doing all sorts of ebtertaining things to you to find out how healthy you are without you knowing. Far more scary then finding out what is in your house.

There's a big difference between an addon that, say, puts a fish icon on your map VS an addon that let's you see how another player does stuff with their personal character and gives that information away to you without their consent. Since you could, yes, actually ask them that stuff. Rather than asking (and giving them a choice in the matter whether to give said information) you're just viewing it anyway no matter what they wanted.

The "see group member DPS" addon was disavowed by ZOS and changed because it led to harassment. Seeing other player's personal loot, some could argue, has already led to harassment. Better to just do away with it so it can't do more harm than good.

I mean, someone explain to me really, why does anyone need to see another players loot if you're not going to ask or whisper them for the stuff you want? Just for curiosity? You've got your own loot to worry about.

Now you are making a much better arguement then the silly this is creepy. Or trying to make some silly connection to someone breaking into your house.

But i would disagree about it being different. Ive seen player health lead to harassment as well. People being yelled at to eat food. Or respec. Or kicked because they died to much with 10k health or kicked because people felt they shouldnt have to carry them. People opening up a trade window and trying to force them to take food without permission.

Doesnt really sound much different. Sounds like the same sort of treatment some people say they are getting about loot.

Osteos

I don't like it either. Maybe its not rational but you worry about your own loot and quit peeping in my bags!

Personofsecrets

Meta Post

The important idea about loot trading meeting loot spying was OP's major point of contention.

The first five responses discuss the insignificant and unimportant fact that loot spying has been around for longer than OP knew.

This is why we can't have nice things. People who could make a difference with their discussion just go after low hanging fruit.

Transairion

But i would disagree about it being different. Ive seen player health lead to harassment as well. People being yelled at to eat food. Or respec. Or kicked because they died to much with 10k health or kicked because people felt they shouldnt have to carry them. People opening up a trade window and trying to force them to take food without permission.

Doesnt really sound much different. Sounds like the same sort of treatment some people say they are getting about loot.

A fair point, but can't you see HP just by being grouped? It's within the base game and I'm (relatively) sure you can enable friendly player HP bars and is all freely available under options.

I can't see what another player has looted without downloading a 3rd party addon, and anyone who has said addon can see what I've looted with no input from me. Kind of the equivalent of giving people X-ray specs and putting them in a room with unaware people who's clothes suddenly no longer hide their... privacy, but only to X-ray spec holders.

You can't really spin it in a positive way, and the fact YOU can get pestered because of SOMEONE ELSE'S addon is just stupid. Again, that is the whole reason the Group DPS addon went bye bye. How is this any different to that?

Jade1986

This seems like a privacy issue, and really should not be allowed.

Jade1986

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

This is not new, it has been around forever. It makes perfect sense to me that my character can see you pick up a maul off of a dead enemy.

"Hey guys look over there!" * inconspicuously decapitates the corpse of the boss *

Yet it's not part of the base game you can just enable at a whim, you essentially have to download an addon in order to snoop on other players.

Addons that effect you are fine, addons that effect players other than you is a no no. Why would someone possibly need to know what every group member is getting as a drop? If you ask and they don't tell you, there's good reason for that.

If someone in the street asks if I have a toaster and I don't reply, that doesn't give them the right to break into my house to find out. It's just plain creepy.

All you have to do in that scenario is say "no thank you" or "make me an offer I can't refuse." Problem solved.

Other people knowing private information without you sharing said information is the problem... BoP item trading has just blown the cover on it since now people are whispering "hey you want to sell that?" as soon as it drops.


It didn't fill me with confidence another topic about this got closed with a Z response but no actual comment on this... can't really see how knowing other players DPS is a no-no, but this is fine?

It shouldn't be private information .... Logically as people have said above, you can see the other character picking up a freeking chestplate out of a corpse...

You can also see your other players stabbing the enemy in the heart really hard, but the dps add on was banned. So..............

Function

Transairion wrote: »

But i would disagree about it being different. Ive seen player health lead to harassment as well. People being yelled at to eat food. Or respec. Or kicked because they died to much with 10k health or kicked because people felt they shouldnt have to carry them. People opening up a trade window and trying to force them to take food without permission.

Doesnt really sound much different. Sounds like the same sort of treatment some people say they are getting about loot.

A fair point, but can't you see HP just by being grouped? It's within the base game and I'm (relatively) sure you can enable friendly player HP bars and is all freely available under options.

I can't see what another player has looted without downloading a 3rd party addon, and anyone who has said addon can see what I've looted with no input from me. Kind of the equivalent of giving people X-ray specs and putting them in a room with unaware people who's clothes suddenly no longer hide their... privacy, but only to X-ray spec holders.

You can't really spin it in a positive way, and the fact YOU can get pestered because of SOMEONE ELSE'S addon is just stupid. Again, that is the whole reason the Group DPS addon went bye bye. How is this any different to that?

Seriously? That comparison is completely unjustified, I feel like you are trolling at this point. The addon API provided by ZoS specifically and intentionally allows for us to see what other group members loot. It is different from GroupDamage because the way that addon received its information was unintentional and therefore patched out.

Jeremy

Either get rid of this add on or allow everyone to see what other group members get. Otherwise - this is going to continue to be an issue with this particular addon. Because if ESO intends for people to bargain/fight for other people's loot after it drops then let's just let everyone get in on it.

Averya_Teira

Transairion wrote: »

It shouldn't be private information .... Logically as people have said above, you can see the other character picking up a freeking chestplate out of a corpse...

The game has functioned fine for 2+ years without this being needed in the base game, and I've yet to encounter a game with personal loot (like ESO) where you can actually see what others players get... the whole point of personal loot is so that (unlike other games) you're not sitting around rolling numbers to divide up the loot.

What's the difference between knowing what loot someone gets, and outright being able to pull up their character sheet? Look at where they've put all their CP, Attributes etc? The addon that let you see other player's DPS (main function was your personal DPS, IIRC) was disowned by ZOS and had to be modified by the creator to remain usable.

If the information isn't publically viewable in the base game, you shouldn't be able to slap on an addon to see that stuff and it's really creepy that this is even a thing to begin with. Worry about your own character stats, loot, DPS whatever... don't snoop on other players.

Uhm..... The most popular MMO has personal loot viewable by everyone..... Hell the loot pops In your screen when someone gets something.... So, you don't seem VERY informed on the subject lol.

Speaking of WoW obviously.