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So there's an addon that allows you to see other player's loot upon drop now...
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cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You are mischaracterizing my post. I never said I wanted to avoid people. That is a ridiculous interpretation of what I said.
Just because I recognize that this addon makes it more likely that others will have to interact with annoying people who want something they have that does not mean I want to generally just avoid people. And if you can't understand that difference, then I don't know what to tell you.
It's just the nature of interaction with people in an online world, where anonymity exists. You cannot expect to only encounter the 'good ones.' You've got to take the good with the bad, and if you're not willing, which is what it sounds like, then you'd be better served elsewhere.
The simple fact is that you've already agreed to interact with these annoying people by running a dungeon with them...so maybe rather than lobbying for a change that removes functionality others find useful, perhaps you should not run dungeons with annoying people in the first place?
Or should all the effort that goes into making your online experience fun and uber-safe for your feels fall on ZoS?1 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
You can still talk to group members or ask them if they got a certain piece of loot you are after without this addon.
I thought we were eliminating ways hostile people might try to be hostile. That means chat channels go bye bye. I mean obviously i could just ignore. Just like i could ignore these people. But the problem never would have come up if there were no chat channels.Edited by vyndral13preub18_ESO on August 19, 2016 8:14PM1 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭deathbyk1te wrote: »Yeah this addon been's around for awhile. Honestly I've never gotten hounded for items. .
That's irrelevant because the feature that allows players to trade personal loot with other group members is new.
That's why you weren't hounded for items before.
It's only new for BoP loot. You could always trade BoE items that other players picked up in dungeons. And while the sets in vWGT and vICP were all BoP, the ones in the vet dungeons before were split somewhat 50/50.Transairion wrote: »But i would disagree about it being different. Ive seen player health lead to harassment as well. People being yelled at to eat food. Or respec. Or kicked because they died to much with 10k health or kicked because people felt they shouldnt have to carry them. People opening up a trade window and trying to force them to take food without permission.
Doesnt really sound much different. Sounds like the same sort of treatment some people say they are getting about loot.
A fair point, but can't you see HP just by being grouped? It's within the base game and I'm (relatively) sure you can enable friendly player HP bars and is all freely available under options.
I can't see what another player has looted without downloading a 3rd party addon, and anyone who has said addon can see what I've looted with no input from me. Kind of the equivalent of giving people X-ray specs and putting them in a room with unaware people who's clothes suddenly no longer hide their... privacy, but only to X-ray spec holders.
You can't really spin it in a positive way, and the fact YOU can get pestered because of SOMEONE ELSE'S addon is just stupid. Again, that is the whole reason the Group DPS addon went bye bye. How is this any different to that?
I don't think so. You can see their health bar and *maybe* set percentages, but you can't see that they have 14k health as opposed to 18k, for example, like some addons allow you to. I've reminded more than one person to make sure their food buff hadn't run out because of it. But I've not used the Vanilla UI for grouping in a while, so I don't know if that's changed.
In regards to health - you can see numbersRemoving the feature would prevent problems.
I've yet to see any explanation or viable need to keep the feature.
Ergo, it should be removed. It's that simple.
If I complete ICP (or any harder dungeon) as part of a group, and gear drops that I need, I'd like the opportunity to ask the lucky recipient to give it or sell it to me.
I feel it's fair for me to ask, since the person wouldn't have completed the dungeon without the rest of the party's contribution.
To remove the feature would be to rob our younger generation of the opportunity to learn all about "no"
Saying it, and hearing it.
There's your viable need.
You can still ask other players if they got the loot you are after. Disabling this addon would not prevent you from doing that. So at best, all this addon does it offer you the convenience of not having to ask first.
Now ask yourself - is that small convenience worth the dozens (probably hundreds actually) of players who are going to find themselves in awkward or hostile situations because of this addon? I say no. But I'm a big boy, so we can agree to disagree.
Yeah, it's totally worth it!
Who am I to deprive dozens (probably hundreds actually) of players the opportunity to push their boundaries and learn to deal with real life uncomfortable situations in a safe environment?
This addon MUST continue to exist for the betterment of our children.
2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I disagree. I believe you can design the game in such a way that makes it less likely players are going to be at each other's throats.KoshkaMurka wrote: »Removing the feature would prevent problems.
I've yet to see any explanation or viable need to keep the feature.
Ergo, it should be removed. It's that simple.
If I complete ICP (or any harder dungeon) as part of a group, and gear drops that I need, I'd like the opportunity to ask the lucky recipient to give it or sell it to me.
I feel it's fair for me to ask, since the person wouldn't have completed the dungeon without the rest of the party's contribution.
To remove the feature would be to rob our younger generation of the opportunity to learn all about "no"
Saying it, and hearing it.
There's your viable need.
You can still ask other players if they got the loot you are after. Disabling this addon would not prevent you from doing that. So at best, all this addon does it offer you the convenience of not having to ask first.
Now ask yourself - is that small convenience worth the dozens (probably hundreds actually) of players who are going to find themselves in awkward or hostile situations because of this addon? I say no. But I'm a big boy, so we can agree to disagree.
You see, you cant balance things around hostile people and things they might do. Its like saying you shouldnt take your smartphone and wallet with you because you might be robbed by bandits.
Its a game and those hostile people cant do any harm except writing stuff in chat. But you can just block them and leave them in any case.
The just ignore them argument sounds good but it's not realistic. You can just ignore gold sellers too as I pointed out earlier. So does that mean the developers should not bother with trying to keep players from being annoyed by them?Edited by Jeremy on August 19, 2016 8:15PM1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You are mischaracterizing my post. I never said I wanted to avoid people. That is a ridiculous interpretation of what I said.
Just because I recognize that this addon makes it more likely that others will have to interact with annoying people who want something they have and expect that they give it to them - that does not follow that I want to generally just avoid people. And if you can't understand that difference, then I don't know what to tell you.
How does it make it more likely?
Annoying people are annoying people. They will find a way to troll or annoy you if they want.
If you dont want to encounter such people, dont pug. Because even without any addons you might join a random group that will make fun on your dps/tanking/healing, the way you play your char, your chars race, your faction choice, your accent or gender (if we're talking about consoles with voice chat). Should we remove racial choices because some people would think that your character sucks?Edited by LadyNalcarya on August 19, 2016 8:16PMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU2 -
Khaos_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »
But i would disagree about it being different. Ive seen player health lead to harassment as well. People being yelled at to eat food. Or respec. Or kicked because they died to much with 10k health or kicked because people felt they shouldnt have to carry them. People opening up a trade window and trying to force them to take food without permission.
Doesnt really sound much different. Sounds like the same sort of treatment some people say they are getting about loot.
I am certainly annoyed by some people and the loot, but that's typically because that person is just annoying in general.
Anyway, I have no issue kicking someone from a group either, depending on the situation. I like to explain to the person and tell them why like an adult. However, someone coming into certain veteran instances unprepared, under geared, or under CP is the insult to everyone else. I have no problem carrying one person a bit if we can still accomplish our goal. But having one persons spec, gear, CP problem making groups wipe over and over waiting the time of others isn't right. Please be prepared to run the toughest content when you decide to run it.
If you enjoy playing a "pet sorc" in heavy armor and chain cast frag because it looks cool go right ahead. Just don't do it in my vICP, vWGT, vCoS, vRoM group please, because it's ridiculous. If you wish to play anyway you want then play in that type of content.
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vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭deathbyk1te wrote: »Yeah this addon been's around for awhile. Honestly I've never gotten hounded for items. .
That's irrelevant because the feature that allows players to trade personal loot with other group members is new.
That's why you weren't hounded for items before.
It's only new for BoP loot. You could always trade BoE items that other players picked up in dungeons. And while the sets in vWGT and vICP were all BoP, the ones in the vet dungeons before were split somewhat 50/50.Transairion wrote: »But i would disagree about it being different. Ive seen player health lead to harassment as well. People being yelled at to eat food. Or respec. Or kicked because they died to much with 10k health or kicked because people felt they shouldnt have to carry them. People opening up a trade window and trying to force them to take food without permission.
Doesnt really sound much different. Sounds like the same sort of treatment some people say they are getting about loot.
A fair point, but can't you see HP just by being grouped? It's within the base game and I'm (relatively) sure you can enable friendly player HP bars and is all freely available under options.
I can't see what another player has looted without downloading a 3rd party addon, and anyone who has said addon can see what I've looted with no input from me. Kind of the equivalent of giving people X-ray specs and putting them in a room with unaware people who's clothes suddenly no longer hide their... privacy, but only to X-ray spec holders.
You can't really spin it in a positive way, and the fact YOU can get pestered because of SOMEONE ELSE'S addon is just stupid. Again, that is the whole reason the Group DPS addon went bye bye. How is this any different to that?
I don't think so. You can see their health bar and *maybe* set percentages, but you can't see that they have 14k health as opposed to 18k, for example, like some addons allow you to. I've reminded more than one person to make sure their food buff hadn't run out because of it. But I've not used the Vanilla UI for grouping in a while, so I don't know if that's changed.
In regards to health - you can see numbersRemoving the feature would prevent problems.
I've yet to see any explanation or viable need to keep the feature.
Ergo, it should be removed. It's that simple.
If I complete ICP (or any harder dungeon) as part of a group, and gear drops that I need, I'd like the opportunity to ask the lucky recipient to give it or sell it to me.
I feel it's fair for me to ask, since the person wouldn't have completed the dungeon without the rest of the party's contribution.
To remove the feature would be to rob our younger generation of the opportunity to learn all about "no"
Saying it, and hearing it.
There's your viable need.
You can still ask other players if they got the loot you are after. Disabling this addon would not prevent you from doing that. So at best, all this addon does it offer you the convenience of not having to ask first.
Now ask yourself - is that small convenience worth the dozens (probably hundreds actually) of players who are going to find themselves in awkward or hostile situations because of this addon? I say no. But I'm a big boy, so we can agree to disagree.
Yeah, it's totally worth it!
Who am I to deprive dozens (probably hundreds actually) of players the opportunity to push their boundaries and learn to deal with real life uncomfortable situations in a safe environment?
This addon MUST continue to exist for the betterment of our children.
Can you help me out here i was trying to set up the default ui to show health. All i get is a red bar. Can you point me in the right direction?0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You are mischaracterizing my post. I never said I wanted to avoid people. That is a ridiculous interpretation of what I said.
Just because I recognize that this addon makes it more likely that others will have to interact with annoying people who want something they have that does not mean I want to generally just avoid people. And if you can't understand that difference, then I don't know what to tell you.
It's just the nature of interaction with people in an online world, where anonymity exists. You cannot expect to only encounter the 'good ones.' You've got to take the good with the bad, and if you're not willing, which is what it sounds like, then you'd be better served elsewhere.
The simple fact is that you've already agreed to interact with these annoying people by running a dungeon with them...so maybe rather than lobbying for a change that removes functionality others find useful, perhaps you should not run dungeons with annoying people in the first place?
Or should all the effort that goes into making your online experience fun and uber-safe for your feels fall on ZoS?
I agreed to run a dungeon with them yes. But not to enter into a trade negotiation with them because they want something I have.
When the addons you choose to download start having an effect on my gaming experience - that's when I believe they deserve a closer looking into by the developers. So this isn't an example of taking the good along with the bad . This is an example of being able to download extra software that circumvents the normal functions of the game and allows you specific information about others which is not normally available - information that can possibly make players a target.
I could care less about feelings or being safe. But what I do care about is putting myself in a situation where I could be banned because some _______ wants something I have and started an argument with me in which I gave as good as I got. I'm not one to simply ignore others when they start crap with me. And due to the heavy-handed approach of ZOS when it comes to moderation the less situations like these I find myself in the better.
I can ignore bad playing or incompetence in a dungeon when I pug. When I join pugs I fully expect to have some tough runs. What I will not ignore is some jerk telling me off because I'm not interested in trading with him. That is not a situation I expect when I join pugs - nor should it become one.Edited by Jeremy on August 19, 2016 8:30PM0 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »
You are mischaracterizing my post. I never said I wanted to avoid people. That is a ridiculous interpretation of what I said.
Just because I recognize that this addon makes it more likely that others will have to interact with annoying people who want something they have and expect that they give it to them - that does not follow that I want to generally just avoid people. And if you can't understand that difference, then I don't know what to tell you.
How does it make it more likely?
Annoying people are annoying people. They will find a way to troll or annoy you if they want.
If you dont want to encounter such people, dont pug. Because even without any addons you might join a random group that will make fun on your dps/tanking/healing, the way you play your char, your chars race, your faction choice, your accent or gender (if we're talking about consoles with voice chat). Should we remove racial choices because some people would think that your character sucks?
Yes!
Because although I might be an ugly camel riding nightblade orc on the outside, I'm a Khajiit on the inside.
A beautiful shards dropping khajiit templar with biting jabs.
People are so mean to me.
1 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »
You are mischaracterizing my post. I never said I wanted to avoid people. That is a ridiculous interpretation of what I said.
Just because I recognize that this addon makes it more likely that others will have to interact with annoying people who want something they have and expect that they give it to them - that does not follow that I want to generally just avoid people. And if you can't understand that difference, then I don't know what to tell you.
How does it make it more likely?
Annoying people are annoying people. They will find a way to troll or annoy you if they want.
If you dont want to encounter such people, dont pug. Because even without any addons you might join a random group that will make fun on your dps/tanking/healing, the way you play your char, your chars race, your faction choice, your accent or gender (if we're talking about consoles with voice chat). Should we remove racial choices because some people would think that your character sucks?
Yes!
Because although I might be an ugly camel riding nightblade orc on the outside, I'm a Khajiit on the inside.
A beautiful shards dropping khajiit templar with biting jabs.
People are so mean to me.
I always wondered who that one person with a camel was.
1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You are mischaracterizing my post. I never said I wanted to avoid people. That is a ridiculous interpretation of what I said.
Just because I recognize that this addon makes it more likely that others will have to interact with annoying people who want something they have that does not mean I want to generally just avoid people. And if you can't understand that difference, then I don't know what to tell you.
It's just the nature of interaction with people in an online world, where anonymity exists. You cannot expect to only encounter the 'good ones.' You've got to take the good with the bad, and if you're not willing, which is what it sounds like, then you'd be better served elsewhere.
The simple fact is that you've already agreed to interact with these annoying people by running a dungeon with them...so maybe rather than lobbying for a change that removes functionality others find useful, perhaps you should not run dungeons with annoying people in the first place?
Or should all the effort that goes into making your online experience fun and uber-safe for your feels fall on ZoS?
I agreed to run a dungeon with them yes. But not to enter into a trade negotiation with them because they want something I have.
When the addons you choose to download start having an effect on my gaming experience - that's when I believe they deserve a closer looking into by the developers. So this isn't an example of taking the good along with the bad . This is an example of being able to download extra software that circumvents the normal functions of the game and allows you specific information about others which is not normally available - information that can possibly make players a target.
I could care less about feelings or being safe. But what I do care about is putting myself in a situation where I could be banned because some _______ wants something I have and started an argument with me in which I gave as good as I got. I'm not one to simply ignore others when they start crap with me. And due to the heavy-handed approach of ZOS when it comes to moderation the less situations like these I find myself in the better.
So you want to make certain features removed from the game because of some imaginary situation that might happen? Ok then I want my neighbor's car destroyed because I think he might hit someone someday.
And if you start writing stuff that can make you banned to everyone who you find annoying...
Well, I dont know what to say, really. Edited by LadyNalcarya on August 19, 2016 8:32PMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »
You are mischaracterizing my post. I never said I wanted to avoid people. That is a ridiculous interpretation of what I said.
Just because I recognize that this addon makes it more likely that others will have to interact with annoying people who want something they have and expect that they give it to them - that does not follow that I want to generally just avoid people. And if you can't understand that difference, then I don't know what to tell you.
How does it make it more likely?
It makes it more likely because without this add one they would not know that I have the loot they want - so how then could they harass me for it?
0 -
FortheloveofKrist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hmmm, console doesn't have this problem. Everyone can see the exact same thing as everyone else.
#PCMasterWhaaaa???
1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »
You are mischaracterizing my post. I never said I wanted to avoid people. That is a ridiculous interpretation of what I said.
Just because I recognize that this addon makes it more likely that others will have to interact with annoying people who want something they have and expect that they give it to them - that does not follow that I want to generally just avoid people. And if you can't understand that difference, then I don't know what to tell you.
How does it make it more likely?
It makes it more likely because without this add one they would not know that I have the loot they want - so how then could they harass me for it?
They might think that since youre not posting loot in chat, you're probably hiding something from them and harass you because of that.Edited by LadyNalcarya on August 19, 2016 8:41PMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭deathbyk1te wrote: »Yeah this addon been's around for awhile. Honestly I've never gotten hounded for items. .
That's irrelevant because the feature that allows players to trade personal loot with other group members is new.
That's why you weren't hounded for items before.
It's only new for BoP loot. You could always trade BoE items that other players picked up in dungeons. And while the sets in vWGT and vICP were all BoP, the ones in the vet dungeons before were split somewhat 50/50.Transairion wrote: »But i would disagree about it being different. Ive seen player health lead to harassment as well. People being yelled at to eat food. Or respec. Or kicked because they died to much with 10k health or kicked because people felt they shouldnt have to carry them. People opening up a trade window and trying to force them to take food without permission.
Doesnt really sound much different. Sounds like the same sort of treatment some people say they are getting about loot.
A fair point, but can't you see HP just by being grouped? It's within the base game and I'm (relatively) sure you can enable friendly player HP bars and is all freely available under options.
I can't see what another player has looted without downloading a 3rd party addon, and anyone who has said addon can see what I've looted with no input from me. Kind of the equivalent of giving people X-ray specs and putting them in a room with unaware people who's clothes suddenly no longer hide their... privacy, but only to X-ray spec holders.
You can't really spin it in a positive way, and the fact YOU can get pestered because of SOMEONE ELSE'S addon is just stupid. Again, that is the whole reason the Group DPS addon went bye bye. How is this any different to that?
I don't think so. You can see their health bar and *maybe* set percentages, but you can't see that they have 14k health as opposed to 18k, for example, like some addons allow you to. I've reminded more than one person to make sure their food buff hadn't run out because of it. But I've not used the Vanilla UI for grouping in a while, so I don't know if that's changed.
In regards to health - you can see numbersRemoving the feature would prevent problems.
I've yet to see any explanation or viable need to keep the feature.
Ergo, it should be removed. It's that simple.
If I complete ICP (or any harder dungeon) as part of a group, and gear drops that I need, I'd like the opportunity to ask the lucky recipient to give it or sell it to me.
I feel it's fair for me to ask, since the person wouldn't have completed the dungeon without the rest of the party's contribution.
To remove the feature would be to rob our younger generation of the opportunity to learn all about "no"
Saying it, and hearing it.
There's your viable need.
You can still ask other players if they got the loot you are after. Disabling this addon would not prevent you from doing that. So at best, all this addon does it offer you the convenience of not having to ask first.
Now ask yourself - is that small convenience worth the dozens (probably hundreds actually) of players who are going to find themselves in awkward or hostile situations because of this addon? I say no. But I'm a big boy, so we can agree to disagree.
Yeah, it's totally worth it!
Who am I to deprive dozens (probably hundreds actually) of players the opportunity to push their boundaries and learn to deal with real life uncomfortable situations in a safe environment?
This addon MUST continue to exist for the betterment of our children.
Oh I"ll deal with the situation alright. The developers may just not like how I deal with it.
In any case - It's not totally worth it. Just because some players don't want to have to actually ask other players if they got the loot they want - that does not justify putting so many other players into annoying situations like these.
Edited by Jeremy on August 19, 2016 8:36PM0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FortheloveofKrist wrote: »Hmmm, console doesn't have this problem. Everyone can see the exact same thing as everyone else.
#PCMasterWhaaaa???
You have text chat now right? It is 100 times more annoying then anything else in this thread.0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
FTFYDisabling this addon will make it easier anti-social players to avoid interacting with other humans while playing a highly social MMO.
Nothing wrong with being anti-social in an MMO. Just turn off /tell while doing dungeons and only talk in group. There are plenty of things you can do to your OWN game to accommodate your odd playstyle. The problem occurs when you cry to ZOS to change EVERYONE's gaming experience to accommodate your odd playstyle.Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on August 19, 2016 8:36PM3 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
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In any case - It's not totally worth it. Just because some players don't want to have to actually ask other players if they got the loot they want - that does not justify putting so many other players into annoying situations like these.
Imaginary situations.
Any knife can be used to kill people. Any car can technically cause a deadly accident. This is not the reason to ban cars and knives, right?Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »
FTFYDisabling this addon will make it easier anti-social players to avoid interacting with other humans while playing a highly social MMO.
Nothing wrong with being anti-social in an MMO. Just turn off /tell while doing dungeons and only talk in group. There are plenty of things you can do to your OWN game to accommodate your odd playstyle. The problem occurs when you cry to ZOS to change EVERYONE's gaming experience to accommodate your odd playstyle.
The anti-social player is the one who is harassing the other player because they are not interested in trading.
Fixed that for you.
And I don't really consider cussing each other out as a particularly valuable social experience either. If anything - it's this addon that is more preventive of so-called being social.
Also in reality: it's this addon that is actually for the anti-social players because it seems many are too frightened just to simply ask other players if they got a certain piece of loot or not. Just ask: if the other player wants to tell you they will. That's called mature social interaction - not downloading software that lets you peek into their bags first so you don't have to ask.Edited by Jeremy on August 19, 2016 8:46PM1 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭deathbyk1te wrote: »Yeah this addon been's around for awhile. Honestly I've never gotten hounded for items. .
That's irrelevant because the feature that allows players to trade personal loot with other group members is new.
That's why you weren't hounded for items before.
It's only new for BoP loot. You could always trade BoE items that other players picked up in dungeons. And while the sets in vWGT and vICP were all BoP, the ones in the vet dungeons before were split somewhat 50/50.Transairion wrote: »But i would disagree about it being different. Ive seen player health lead to harassment as well. People being yelled at to eat food. Or respec. Or kicked because they died to much with 10k health or kicked because people felt they shouldnt have to carry them. People opening up a trade window and trying to force them to take food without permission.
Doesnt really sound much different. Sounds like the same sort of treatment some people say they are getting about loot.
A fair point, but can't you see HP just by being grouped? It's within the base game and I'm (relatively) sure you can enable friendly player HP bars and is all freely available under options.
I can't see what another player has looted without downloading a 3rd party addon, and anyone who has said addon can see what I've looted with no input from me. Kind of the equivalent of giving people X-ray specs and putting them in a room with unaware people who's clothes suddenly no longer hide their... privacy, but only to X-ray spec holders.
You can't really spin it in a positive way, and the fact YOU can get pestered because of SOMEONE ELSE'S addon is just stupid. Again, that is the whole reason the Group DPS addon went bye bye. How is this any different to that?
I don't think so. You can see their health bar and *maybe* set percentages, but you can't see that they have 14k health as opposed to 18k, for example, like some addons allow you to. I've reminded more than one person to make sure their food buff hadn't run out because of it. But I've not used the Vanilla UI for grouping in a while, so I don't know if that's changed.
In regards to health - you can see numbersRemoving the feature would prevent problems.
I've yet to see any explanation or viable need to keep the feature.
Ergo, it should be removed. It's that simple.
If I complete ICP (or any harder dungeon) as part of a group, and gear drops that I need, I'd like the opportunity to ask the lucky recipient to give it or sell it to me.
I feel it's fair for me to ask, since the person wouldn't have completed the dungeon without the rest of the party's contribution.
To remove the feature would be to rob our younger generation of the opportunity to learn all about "no"
Saying it, and hearing it.
There's your viable need.
You can still ask other players if they got the loot you are after. Disabling this addon would not prevent you from doing that. So at best, all this addon does it offer you the convenience of not having to ask first.
Now ask yourself - is that small convenience worth the dozens (probably hundreds actually) of players who are going to find themselves in awkward or hostile situations because of this addon? I say no. But I'm a big boy, so we can agree to disagree.
Yeah, it's totally worth it!
Who am I to deprive dozens (probably hundreds actually) of players the opportunity to push their boundaries and learn to deal with real life uncomfortable situations in a safe environment?
This addon MUST continue to exist for the betterment of our children.
Oh I"ll deal with the situation alright. The developers may just not like how I deal with it.
In any case - It's not totally worth it. Just because some players don't want to have to actually ask other players if they got the loot they want - that does not justify putting so many other players into annoying situations like these.
There will be new annoying situations. Like the stop after every fight to ask what people what they got. I mean we are talking about the annoying people here. I cant wait to get in a dungeon where the tank stops after each boss and wont go on until people link what they got.
They know this stuff is tradeable now. The solution ill just hide from them isnt really one.
2 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Someone help me! I Joined this group and now these people are trying to talk to me!
You can still talk to group members or ask them if they got a certain piece of loot you are after without this addon.
You're missing the convenience factor.
Take, for example, a run that I was on earlier today. We were speed-running through, so I was basically auto-looting everything and not even looking to see what I got. There was a piece of gear that I didn't realize that I had even gotten. It was a piece of gear that, if I had noticed, I would've considered to be trash and wouldn't have bothered to link it. And I had no idea that someone in the group thought that piece of gear was useful to them.
I looted that gear, and someone whispered me, saying if I wanted it. I gave it to them because it was, in my view, decon junk.
That trade never would've happened if they didn't have a loot addon. Because I didn't notice I had looted it. Because even if I did notice, I wouldn't have bothered to link to.
Something similar happened on another day, when someone looted a piece that they didn't think was even worth mentioning. But it was the perfect piece for something that I wanted to experiment with. I noticed it in my loot log, I asked them about it, and they were surprised that I even wanted what they thought was trash.
These are all trades that never would've happened without loot-sharing addons.
Or, consider a 12-person raid. At the beginning, lots of people are saying, "If you get X, I'd like it." Do you expect me to remember all that? Which pieces of which sets are people after? And was it Bob who wanted the boot or was it Alice? I'm not going to remember what all to look out for, and it's a lot of hassle to, after each loot moment, to open up my inventory, find the new item, and post it in chat.
Addons like this are a huge convenience not just to the person looking for an item, but to the people looting the items. Because I don't have to stop what I'm doing to manually broadcast what I got, and I don't have to remember who was looking for what and what pieces I should be on the lookout for. If everyone in the group has the addon, I'll just wait for them to whisper me.
And what's the cost of this inconvenience. Every now and then, I might have to say, "sorry, no". Or maybe even just "no". I don't know about you, but I think that's a pretty damn good tradeoff.
Also: There are a lot of different addons that report the group's loot. I am the author of one of these many addons, and there is one additional point of convenience that people have when using my addon: mine reports the trait of an item so that you don't have to click on an item to see what trait it has. In a vet trial, it's not unusual for most of the people to get Infallible and Vicious items off of a boss, but for there to be maybe just one--if any at all--of those items to be actually worth using due to traits. If we were living in the dark ages of manual loot link, 12 people would have to manually open their bags and link their loot, and then I'll have to manually click on 12 links to see if each item is actually worthwhile or if it's worthless because of its trash trait. With my addon, I can just glance in the chat window and see that nothing good dropped on that boss, and I can move on.Edited by code65536 on August 19, 2016 8:47PMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
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Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
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- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
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- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
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- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
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- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information9 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »
FTFYDisabling this addon will make it easier anti-social players to avoid interacting with other humans while playing a highly social MMO.
Nothing wrong with being anti-social in an MMO. Just turn off /tell while doing dungeons and only talk in group. There are plenty of things you can do to your OWN game to accommodate your odd playstyle. The problem occurs when you cry to ZOS to change EVERYONE's gaming experience to accommodate your odd playstyle.
The anti-social player is the one who is harassing the other player because they are not interested in trading.
Fixed that for you.
Try looking up the definition of words before you use them. Words are like builds in ESO. Some combinations just don't work.
If only we had an addon to figure out which builds those were...Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on August 19, 2016 8:43PM1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »deathbyk1te wrote: »Yeah this addon been's around for awhile. Honestly I've never gotten hounded for items. .
That's irrelevant because the feature that allows players to trade personal loot with other group members is new.
That's why you weren't hounded for items before.
It's only new for BoP loot. You could always trade BoE items that other players picked up in dungeons. And while the sets in vWGT and vICP were all BoP, the ones in the vet dungeons before were split somewhat 50/50.Transairion wrote: »But i would disagree about it being different. Ive seen player health lead to harassment as well. People being yelled at to eat food. Or respec. Or kicked because they died to much with 10k health or kicked because people felt they shouldnt have to carry them. People opening up a trade window and trying to force them to take food without permission.
Doesnt really sound much different. Sounds like the same sort of treatment some people say they are getting about loot.
A fair point, but can't you see HP just by being grouped? It's within the base game and I'm (relatively) sure you can enable friendly player HP bars and is all freely available under options.
I can't see what another player has looted without downloading a 3rd party addon, and anyone who has said addon can see what I've looted with no input from me. Kind of the equivalent of giving people X-ray specs and putting them in a room with unaware people who's clothes suddenly no longer hide their... privacy, but only to X-ray spec holders.
You can't really spin it in a positive way, and the fact YOU can get pestered because of SOMEONE ELSE'S addon is just stupid. Again, that is the whole reason the Group DPS addon went bye bye. How is this any different to that?
I don't think so. You can see their health bar and *maybe* set percentages, but you can't see that they have 14k health as opposed to 18k, for example, like some addons allow you to. I've reminded more than one person to make sure their food buff hadn't run out because of it. But I've not used the Vanilla UI for grouping in a while, so I don't know if that's changed.
In regards to health - you can see numbersRemoving the feature would prevent problems.
I've yet to see any explanation or viable need to keep the feature.
Ergo, it should be removed. It's that simple.
If I complete ICP (or any harder dungeon) as part of a group, and gear drops that I need, I'd like the opportunity to ask the lucky recipient to give it or sell it to me.
I feel it's fair for me to ask, since the person wouldn't have completed the dungeon without the rest of the party's contribution.
To remove the feature would be to rob our younger generation of the opportunity to learn all about "no"
Saying it, and hearing it.
There's your viable need.
You can still ask other players if they got the loot you are after. Disabling this addon would not prevent you from doing that. So at best, all this addon does it offer you the convenience of not having to ask first.
Now ask yourself - is that small convenience worth the dozens (probably hundreds actually) of players who are going to find themselves in awkward or hostile situations because of this addon? I say no. But I'm a big boy, so we can agree to disagree.
Yeah, it's totally worth it!
Who am I to deprive dozens (probably hundreds actually) of players the opportunity to push their boundaries and learn to deal with real life uncomfortable situations in a safe environment?
This addon MUST continue to exist for the betterment of our children.
Oh I"ll deal with the situation alright. The developers may just not like how I deal with it.
In any case - It's not totally worth it. Just because some players don't want to have to actually ask other players if they got the loot they want - that does not justify putting so many other players into annoying situations like these.
There will be new annoying situations. Like the stop after every fight to ask what people what they got. I mean we are talking about the annoying people here. I cant wait to get in a dungeon where the tank stops after each boss and wont go on until people link what they got.
They know this stuff is tradeable now. The solution ill just hide from them isnt really one.
This.
Those bullies that would start a drama over a gear piece would probably notice that someone in group is not posting their loot and might assume that its actually BiS items and that person is just greedy and wants to hide said items from the group.
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »
You are mischaracterizing my post. I never said I wanted to avoid people. That is a ridiculous interpretation of what I said.
Just because I recognize that this addon makes it more likely that others will have to interact with annoying people who want something they have and expect that they give it to them - that does not follow that I want to generally just avoid people. And if you can't understand that difference, then I don't know what to tell you.
How does it make it more likely?
It makes it more likely because without this add one they would not know that I have the loot they want - so how then could they harass me for it?
They might think that since youre not posting loot in chat, you're probably hiding something from them and harass you because of that.
But they would not know for sure that I have the piece of equipment they want. So it would make it a lot less likely.Edited by Jeremy on August 19, 2016 8:47PM0 -
Blackbird71✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »Transairion wrote: »It shouldn't be private information .... Logically as people have said above, you can see the other character picking up a freeking chestplate out of a corpse...
The game has functioned fine for 2+ years without this being needed in the base game, and I've yet to encounter a game with personal loot (like ESO) where you can actually see what others players get... the whole point of personal loot is so that (unlike other games) you're not sitting around rolling numbers to divide up the loot.
What's the difference between knowing what loot someone gets, and outright being able to pull up their character sheet? Look at where they've put all their CP, Attributes etc? The addon that let you see other player's DPS (main function was your personal DPS, IIRC) was disowned by ZOS and had to be modified by the creator to remain usable.
If the information isn't publically viewable in the base game, you shouldn't be able to slap on an addon to see that stuff and it's really creepy that this is even a thing to begin with. Worry about your own character stats, loot, DPS whatever... don't snoop on other players.
Uhm..... The most popular MMO has personal loot viewable by everyone..... Hell the loot pops In your screen when someone gets something.... So, you don't seem VERY informed on the subject lol.
Speaking of WoW obviously.
It's been a few years since I've played WoW, so maybe I'm misremembering, or maybe things have changed, but as I recall, WoW does not have "personal" loot viewable by everyone. Rather it has group loot which everyone rolls one, with the options to roll "need" or "greed" depending on one's intentions for the loot. The loot actually pops up before anyone rolls on it, so at the time it is viewable, it's not in anyone's inventory. ESO is something different in that the loot is personal and individual, and so is clearly not intended as a group or public display.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It has nothing to do with being a bad ass. Some of us are just not the ignore others type. And on a game like ESO that has such strict rules of conduct, that is very relevant to this situation.Edited by Jeremy on August 19, 2016 8:55PM0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »
You are mischaracterizing my post. I never said I wanted to avoid people. That is a ridiculous interpretation of what I said.
Just because I recognize that this addon makes it more likely that others will have to interact with annoying people who want something they have and expect that they give it to them - that does not follow that I want to generally just avoid people. And if you can't understand that difference, then I don't know what to tell you.
How does it make it more likely?
It makes it more likely because without this add one they would not know that I have the loot they want - so how then could they harass me for it?
They might think that since youre not posting loot in chat, you're probably hiding something from them and harass you because of that.
But they would know for sure that I have the piece of equipment they want. So it would make it a lot less likely.
No. It makes everything open to assumptions. And believe me or not, assumptions can make many ingame (and even rl) situations very tricky. You admitted you might start doing something that can make you banned during such arguments, so it wont make any difference for you.
Actually there is an easy solution - just make things clear before the run. Like, "I still need spell power cure gloves for my alt, but can trade/sell/give away all other parts".Edited by LadyNalcarya on August 19, 2016 8:51PMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
Blackbird71✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »
You can still talk to group members or ask them if they got a certain piece of loot you are after without this addon.
I thought we were eliminating ways hostile people might try to be hostile. That means chat channels go bye bye. I mean obviously i could just ignore. Just like i could ignore these people. But the problem never would have come up if there were no chat channels.
The game actually gives us the option to disable any and all chat channels. The problem here is that we have no way of disabling someone else's addon that they use to interfere with our gameplay.
And by "interfere," I'm not talking about the people who may politely ask once about a particular item you picked up that keeps being used as an example in this thread of why there is nothing wrong with the addon. I'm talking about the jerks who constantly pester you about it with multiple messages, threats, etc., who may follow you around, and if you ignore them, may hit you up with alts or get their friends/guildies to start messaging you until you give in or log off. We all know that they exist; don't pretend that they don't.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Someone help me! I Joined this group and now these people are trying to talk to me!
You can still talk to group members or ask them if they got a certain piece of loot you are after without this addon.
You're missing the convenience factor.
Take, for example, a run that I was on earlier today. We were speed-running through, so I was basically auto-looting everything and not even looking to see what I got. There was a piece of gear that I didn't realize that I had even gotten. It was a piece of gear that, if I had noticed, I would've considered to be trash and wouldn't have bothered to link it. And I had no idea that someone in the group thought that piece of gear was useful to them.
I looted that gear, and someone whispered me, saying if I wanted it. I gave it to them because it was, in my view, decon junk.
That trade never would've happened if they didn't have a loot addon. Because I didn't notice I had looted it. Because even if I did notice, I wouldn't have bothered to link to.
Something similar happened on another day, when someone looted a piece that they didn't think was even worth mentioning. But it was the perfect piece for something that I wanted to experiment with. I noticed it in my loot log, I asked them about it, and they were surprised that I even wanted what they thought was trash.
These are all trades that never would've happened without loot-sharing addons.
Or, consider a 12-person raid. At the beginning, lots of people are saying, "If you get X, I'd like it." Do you expect me to remember all that? Which pieces of which sets are people after? And was it Bob who wanted the boot or was it Alice? I'm not going to remember what all to look out for, and it's a lot of hassle to, after each loot moment, to open up my inventory, find the new item, and post it in chat.
Addons like this are a huge convenience not just to the person looking for an item, but to the people looting the items. Because I don't have to stop what I'm doing to manually broadcast what I got, and I don't have to remember who was looking for what and what pieces I should be on the lookout for. If everyone in the group has the addon, I'll just wait for them to whisper me.
And what's the cost of this inconvenience. Every now and then, I might have to say, "sorry, no". Or maybe even just "no". I don't know about you, but I think that's a pretty damn good tradeoff.
Also: There are a lot of different addons that report the group's loot. I am the author of one of these many addons, and there is one additional point of convenience that people have when using my addon: mine reports the trait of an item so that you don't have to click on an item to see what trait it has. In a vet trial, it's not unusual for most of the people to get Infallible and Vicious items off of a boss, but for there to be maybe just one--if any at all--of those items to be actually worth using due to traits. If we were living in the dark ages of manual loot link, 12 people would have to manually open their bags and link their loot, and then I'll have to manually click on 12 links to see if each item is actually worthwhile or if it's worthless because of its trash trait. With my addon, I can just glance in the chat window and see that nothing good dropped on that boss, and I can move on.
If this is so important to the game they should make it a basic feature as I said. Or better yet - why don't they do like some other games and allow relevant jobs to roll on the loot that drops.
This is the worst way imaginable to go about dealing with loot.0
