Cheating and Exploits

clayandaudrey_ESO

Pomaikai wrote: »

I also want to make it clear that while the vast majority of my disappointment and ire is directed at ZOS's upper management, a portion of it is reserved for the forum moderators here because of their heavy handedness regarding this issue. The forum mods had the opportunity from day one to make us feel like they were on our side, that they cared, and help ratchet down the rhetoric. Instead, they have singlehandedly made a bad situation worse.

Wish there was a way to awesome and agree at the same time.

clayandaudrey_ESO

Mureel wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

Saw more bots and speed hackers running around the coldharbour alchemy reagent route.

Followed one guy who hadn't programmed his bit correctly, so it was just going to the plants, standing over then without picking for 2 seconds, and then continuing the route.

After coming back to his computer after 2.5 hours I see him check his bag - he must have been p***ed at having no flowers - and then I tell him to stop botting. He calls me an a**hole and tells me he wasn't until I remind him I know he got no flowers because he screwed up his bot and he must be mad af.

He won't stop though. If a hacker gets off then why would people doing anything else be afraid of consequences?

Video proof of speedhacker or I don't believe you. My character is super fast because of gear and steed mundus. You'd probably call me a speed hacker.

CE speeds you up. You do everything faster not just run. You be gathering faster, attacking faster etc.

But from your post I am starting to think you already know this.

Turelus

Pomaikai wrote: »

I also want to make it clear that while the vast majority of my disappointment and ire is directed at ZOS's upper management, a portion of it is reserved for the forum moderators here because of their heavy handedness regarding this issue. The forum mods had the opportunity from day one to make us feel like they were on our side, that they cared, and help ratchet down the rhetoric. Instead, they have singlehandedly made a bad situation worse.

Not to get too far off topic but I do feel that's an unfair statement. I have not had a single post in this thread edited or removed and I have been very critical of ZOS in all forms.

The posts that get removed are the ones that either break their rules (which like or loathe are the rules) or the ones which are outright insulting/rude/offensive to ZOS. The mods also can't give us much information as they're forums mods not developers or community reps, so it's unfair to expect more than keeping the peace from them.

Manpoints

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

Saw more bots and speed hackers running around the coldharbour alchemy reagent route.

Followed one guy who hadn't programmed his bit correctly, so it was just going to the plants, standing over then without picking for 2 seconds, and then continuing the route.

After coming back to his computer after 2.5 hours I see him check his bag - he must have been p***ed at having no flowers - and then I tell him to stop botting. He calls me an a**hole and tells me he wasn't until I remind him I know he got no flowers because he screwed up his bot and he must be mad af.

He won't stop though. If a hacker gets off then why would people doing anything else be afraid of consequences?

Video proof of speedhacker or I don't believe you. My character is super fast because of gear and steed mundus. You'd probably call me a speed hacker.

CE speeds you up. You do everything faster not just run. You be gathering faster, attacking faster etc.

But from your post I am starting to think you already know this.

I'd say they do too, but if you see other threads, there are plenty of people seemingly against the idea of having any drive for banning these people.


And as for those asking for video proof or 'I dont believe you'. Well nobody is here to educate you #1. But #2, we aren't allowed to post videos on the forums anymore unless we edit them and take out all identifying characteristics. If you'd have any of the other posts, you would know this. Pretending like hacks haven't been used is disingenuous to the point that someone would have to question motivations.

Before the next person says 'link me proof' - please just Youtube it.

Waffennacht

As for the wall jumping...

You can't ban them, over half of the PvP population would be gone.

It's so common now that while playing it's rare to find walls being attacked.

Several AD (my team) jump in. Go to a new keep, enemies have jumped in there. An empty keep is getting rarer and rarer.

Something needs to be done

KingMagaw

Turelus wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

I also want to make it clear that while the vast majority of my disappointment and ire is directed at ZOS's upper management, a portion of it is reserved for the forum moderators here because of their heavy handedness regarding this issue. The forum mods had the opportunity from day one to make us feel like they were on our side, that they cared, and help ratchet down the rhetoric. Instead, they have singlehandedly made a bad situation worse.

Not to get too far off topic but I do feel that's an unfair statement. I have not had a single post in this thread edited or removed and I have been very critical of ZOS in all forms.

The posts that get removed are the ones that either break their rules (which like or loathe are the rules) or the ones which are outright insulting/rude/offensive to ZOS. The mods also can't give us much information as they're forums mods not developers or community reps, so it's unfair to expect more than keeping the peace from them.

I would disagree. I have been continually modded (Over 8 posts that i know of) and suspended from forums. All i have done is talk out against people blatantly cheating using CE, the forum mods for sweeping away topics and not having them and/or boss comment on it, blatantly just trying to hush the cheating topic down instead of addressing it directly.

Took way over 1 week to have this thread stickied, hoping it would fade away after suspending people posting in it.

Saying in over 2 years of people using Cheat Engine, banned ~50 people and let some back in. Numbers make sense to you?

Customers of the game getting support tickets answered by, sorry cant help you cause were too busy.

ESO live is spent on pushing more broken and untested content. Was no more than 30 seconds they addressed the cheating, basically saying they on it. That is in no way reassuring. 33,700 view this topic has since the short time its been up, gets 30 seconds on ESO live.

So i totally agree with Pomaikai. Stopped my sub and wont renew to fund this shoddy treatment.

Pomaikai

Waffennacht wrote: »

As for the wall jumping...

You can't ban them, over half of the PvP population would be gone.

It's so common now that while playing it's rare to find walls being attacked.

Several AD (my team) jump in. Go to a new keep, enemies have jumped in there. An empty keep is getting rarer and rarer.

Something needs to be done

I'm all for temp banning half of the PVP population for 7 days, as well as zeroing out their PVP Leaderboard scores for that campaign.

Talk about quickly driving the point home and putting an end to people using the exploit.

Turelus

Pomaikai wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

As for the wall jumping...

You can't ban them, over half of the PvP population would be gone.

It's so common now that while playing it's rare to find walls being attacked.

Several AD (my team) jump in. Go to a new keep, enemies have jumped in there. An empty keep is getting rarer and rarer.

Something needs to be done

I'm all for temp banning half of the PVP population for 7 days, as well as zeroing out their PVP Leaderboard scores for that campaign.

Talk about quickly driving the point home and putting an end to people using the exploit.

This kind of goes back to what I have been shouting for a while now. When they're banning people they need to be taking away their gains, be that gold/AP, items, scores or anything they didn't earn in a fair way.

Cheating and being banned for a period of time to come back and not have anything you gained for the last days, week, month is going to send home the message that it wasn't worth it, where's right now everyone who has cheated is leaning back in their chair doing their best smug face while they enjoy their rewards.

Hawco10

For the umpteenth time. Fix the exploit of jumping on top of keeps and resource towers please.
Thank you.

Thornen

Lol still no official statement, Zos must care about us as much as the last turd they dropped off at the toilet....

Rohamad_Ali

Its Grand Theft Tamriel . You even got players challenging ZOS straight out to try and punish them lol . What a joke .

Pomaikai

LastAmbushOnEarth wrote: »

you will never got a ban for jumping to the keep walls

im doing it every day

and i feel myself very safe agains any bans

please ZOS, show me your hammer lol

but you will not
because you cant


i dont care what you said
but for me its intended mechanics and i will continue to play like that, to use gapclosers and jump to walls
until it will not be nerfed

Spoken like a true cheater.

UltimaJoe777

Ok I think I have a solution for keep jumpers that Zenimax can get behind without losing players (not as many anyway lol):

So someone gets caught keep jumping in Cyrodiil. Following the usual punishment methods that player could be booted from Cyrodiil and cannot return to it for an hour with a warning message saying why. If they return after the hour is up and persist I say ban that person from Cyrodiil entirely for a few days. They would be unable to enter campaigns at all until that expires, and to make the punishment stick more, for both the warning and the second punishment, it would be spread to EVERY CHARACTER in that account. A third time would result in that account being permanently kicked out of Cyrodiil, no matter how many times they delete and remake characters. This could also apply to any other exploits going on.

For cheat engine users though it's clear that the culprits need to be banned from the entire game, regardless of how many people Zenimax loses. If that many people are cheating then something went wrong in the first place, and I'd say Zenimax should take legal action against the makers of the cheat engine to get to the root of the problem. Also it's only PC players that have access to CE so at MOST they lose 1/3rd of their entire population.

Whatzituyah

@UltimaJoe777 That would brake their game even for pvp because there are skyshards and lore books are in the zone.

UltimaJoe777

Whatzituyah wrote: »

@UltimaJoe777 That would brake their game even for pvp because there are skyshards and lore books are in the zone.

It's a compromise to punish the cheaters without banning them entirely. A small portion of the game made unavailable to them rather than the entire game. If Zenimax ever cares to punish those people then even they cannot deny this as a plausible solution to their conflict of banning too many players.

dday3six

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ok I think I have a solution for keep jumpers that Zenimax can get behind without losing players (not as many anyway lol):

So someone gets caught keep jumping in Cyrodiil. Following the usual punishment methods that player could be booted from Cyrodiil and cannot return to it for an hour with a warning message saying why. If they return after the hour is up and persist I say ban that person from Cyrodiil entirely for a few days. They would be unable to enter campaigns at all until that expires, and to make the punishment stick more, for both the warning and the second punishment, it would be spread to EVERY CHARACTER in that account. A third time would result in that account being permanently kicked out of Cyrodiil, no matter how many times they delete and remake characters. This could also apply to any other exploits going on.

For cheat engine users though it's clear that the culprits need to be banned from the entire game, regardless of how many people Zenimax loses. If that many people are cheating then something went wrong in the first place, and I'd say Zenimax should take legal action against the makers of the cheat engine to get to the root of the problem.Also it's only PC players that have access to CE so at MOST they lose 1/3rd of their entire population.

Legal action, really? What laws have been broken? You've any idea how hard it is to extradite foreign nationals, should the culpurts be residing citizens of a foreign country? That the the program was likely traded anonymously and altered by several users along the way. It could take years to find who actually wrote the program. There is a reason developers ban exploiters and patch the holes in their programming (you know the actual root of the problem) rather than try to sue, at great cost I might add, program writers.

UltimaJoe777

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ok I think I have a solution for keep jumpers that Zenimax can get behind without losing players (not as many anyway lol):

So someone gets caught keep jumping in Cyrodiil. Following the usual punishment methods that player could be booted from Cyrodiil and cannot return to it for an hour with a warning message saying why. If they return after the hour is up and persist I say ban that person from Cyrodiil entirely for a few days. They would be unable to enter campaigns at all until that expires, and to make the punishment stick more, for both the warning and the second punishment, it would be spread to EVERY CHARACTER in that account. A third time would result in that account being permanently kicked out of Cyrodiil, no matter how many times they delete and remake characters. This could also apply to any other exploits going on.

For cheat engine users though it's clear that the culprits need to be banned from the entire game, regardless of how many people Zenimax loses. If that many people are cheating then something went wrong in the first place, and I'd say Zenimax should take legal action against the makers of the cheat engine to get to the root of the problem.Also it's only PC players that have access to CE so at MOST they lose 1/3rd of their entire population.

Legal action, really? What laws have been broken? You've any idea how hard it is to extradite foreign nationals, should the culpurts be residing citizens of a foreign country? That the the program was likely traded anonymously and altered by several users along the way. It could take years to find who actually wrote the program. There is a reason developers ban exploiters and patch the holes in their programming (you know the actual root of the problem) rather than try at great to sue, at great cost I might add, program writers.

If Zenimax manages to find even 1 legal reason to take action against them then they are entitled to do so. It's mostly dependent on how persistently they modify the software to bypass their protection specifically and how many players the program costs them due to having to ban them. If they really wanted to they could find ways to track down the owner of the software, or at the very least the owner of their website and the owner of the website could then take action against the website on their behest. There are many things they can do even if it doesn't seem feasible in order to protect their clientele.

Whatzituyah

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ok I think I have a solution for keep jumpers that Zenimax can get behind without losing players (not as many anyway lol):

So someone gets caught keep jumping in Cyrodiil. Following the usual punishment methods that player could be booted from Cyrodiil and cannot return to it for an hour with a warning message saying why. If they return after the hour is up and persist I say ban that person from Cyrodiil entirely for a few days. They would be unable to enter campaigns at all until that expires, and to make the punishment stick more, for both the warning and the second punishment, it would be spread to EVERY CHARACTER in that account. A third time would result in that account being permanently kicked out of Cyrodiil, no matter how many times they delete and remake characters. This could also apply to any other exploits going on.

For cheat engine users though it's clear that the culprits need to be banned from the entire game, regardless of how many people Zenimax loses. If that many people are cheating then something went wrong in the first place, and I'd say Zenimax should take legal action against the makers of the cheat engine to get to the root of the problem.Also it's only PC players that have access to CE so at MOST they lose 1/3rd of their entire population.

Legal action, really? What laws have been broken? You've any idea how hard it is to extradite foreign nationals, should the culpurts be residing citizens of a foreign country? That the the program was likely traded anonymously and altered by several users along the way. It could take years to find who actually wrote the program. There is a reason developers ban exploiters and patch the holes in their programming (you know the actual root of the problem) rather than try at great to sue, at great cost I might add, program writers.

If Zenimax manages to find even 1 legal reason to take action against them then they are entitled to do so. It's mostly dependent on how persistently they modify the software to bypass their protection specifically and how many players the program costs them due to having to ban them. If they really wanted to they could find ways to track down the owner of the software, or at the very least the owner of their website and the owner of the website could then take action against the website on their behest. There are many things they can do even if it doesn't seem feasible in order to protect their clientele.

@UltimaJoe777 Can you even find which law this would be under? There must be tons.

UltimaJoe777

Whatzituyah wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ok I think I have a solution for keep jumpers that Zenimax can get behind without losing players (not as many anyway lol):

So someone gets caught keep jumping in Cyrodiil. Following the usual punishment methods that player could be booted from Cyrodiil and cannot return to it for an hour with a warning message saying why. If they return after the hour is up and persist I say ban that person from Cyrodiil entirely for a few days. They would be unable to enter campaigns at all until that expires, and to make the punishment stick more, for both the warning and the second punishment, it would be spread to EVERY CHARACTER in that account. A third time would result in that account being permanently kicked out of Cyrodiil, no matter how many times they delete and remake characters. This could also apply to any other exploits going on.

For cheat engine users though it's clear that the culprits need to be banned from the entire game, regardless of how many people Zenimax loses. If that many people are cheating then something went wrong in the first place, and I'd say Zenimax should take legal action against the makers of the cheat engine to get to the root of the problem.Also it's only PC players that have access to CE so at MOST they lose 1/3rd of their entire population.

Legal action, really? What laws have been broken? You've any idea how hard it is to extradite foreign nationals, should the culpurts be residing citizens of a foreign country? That the the program was likely traded anonymously and altered by several users along the way. It could take years to find who actually wrote the program. There is a reason developers ban exploiters and patch the holes in their programming (you know the actual root of the problem) rather than try at great to sue, at great cost I might add, program writers.

If Zenimax manages to find even 1 legal reason to take action against them then they are entitled to do so. It's mostly dependent on how persistently they modify the software to bypass their protection specifically and how many players the program costs them due to having to ban them. If they really wanted to they could find ways to track down the owner of the software, or at the very least the owner of their website and the owner of the website could then take action against the website on their behest. There are many things they can do even if it doesn't seem feasible in order to protect their clientele.

@UltimaJoe777 Can you even find which law this would be under? There must be tons.

Technically if you google how illegal third party programs are you will find nothing saying it is punishable by law of any sort, but it is generally considered illegal. However, illegal activities including piracy and scamming occur all the time and are difficult to tackle due to how widespread it is. Action can only be taken if it actually costs someone or some company considerable money and/or clientele, depending on how said clientele is effected. Feel free to dig as deep into it as you like but fact of the matter is even if it is unlikely to do anything Zenimax can still try if they so desire.

dday3six

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ok I think I have a solution for keep jumpers that Zenimax can get behind without losing players (not as many anyway lol):

So someone gets caught keep jumping in Cyrodiil. Following the usual punishment methods that player could be booted from Cyrodiil and cannot return to it for an hour with a warning message saying why. If they return after the hour is up and persist I say ban that person from Cyrodiil entirely for a few days. They would be unable to enter campaigns at all until that expires, and to make the punishment stick more, for both the warning and the second punishment, it would be spread to EVERY CHARACTER in that account. A third time would result in that account being permanently kicked out of Cyrodiil, no matter how many times they delete and remake characters. This could also apply to any other exploits going on.

For cheat engine users though it's clear that the culprits need to be banned from the entire game, regardless of how many people Zenimax loses. If that many people are cheating then something went wrong in the first place, and I'd say Zenimax should take legal action against the makers of the cheat engine to get to the root of the problem.Also it's only PC players that have access to CE so at MOST they lose 1/3rd of their entire population.

Legal action, really? What laws have been broken? You've any idea how hard it is to extradite foreign nationals, should the culpurts be residing citizens of a foreign country? That the the program was likely traded anonymously and altered by several users along the way. It could take years to find who actually wrote the program. There is a reason developers ban exploiters and patch the holes in their programming (you know the actual root of the problem) rather than try at great to sue, at great cost I might add, program writers.

If Zenimax manages to find even 1 legal reason to take action against them then they are entitled to do so. It's mostly dependent on how persistently they modify the software to bypass their protection specifically and how many players the program costs them due to having to ban them. If they really wanted to they could find ways to track down the owner of the software, or at the very least the owner of their website and the owner of the website could then take action against the website on their behest. There are many things they can do even if it doesn't seem feasible in order to protect their clientele.

You know most of that software is share via bit torrent, right? There's no website it's hosted on. Oh, I know. You think they'll sue chan boards, LoL. You really don't know anything about that sort of stuff...

Let me enlighten you on how this would go. The counter argument would be how did the program get into the closed server in the first place. You mention protecting cilents, well if their server is breach-able have they done enough to protect their cilents? That's a massive gamble which leads to 'expert' against 'expert' testimony. The kind of position you really don't want to be in, in a court of law.

UltimaJoe777

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ok I think I have a solution for keep jumpers that Zenimax can get behind without losing players (not as many anyway lol):

So someone gets caught keep jumping in Cyrodiil. Following the usual punishment methods that player could be booted from Cyrodiil and cannot return to it for an hour with a warning message saying why. If they return after the hour is up and persist I say ban that person from Cyrodiil entirely for a few days. They would be unable to enter campaigns at all until that expires, and to make the punishment stick more, for both the warning and the second punishment, it would be spread to EVERY CHARACTER in that account. A third time would result in that account being permanently kicked out of Cyrodiil, no matter how many times they delete and remake characters. This could also apply to any other exploits going on.

For cheat engine users though it's clear that the culprits need to be banned from the entire game, regardless of how many people Zenimax loses. If that many people are cheating then something went wrong in the first place, and I'd say Zenimax should take legal action against the makers of the cheat engine to get to the root of the problem.Also it's only PC players that have access to CE so at MOST they lose 1/3rd of their entire population.

Legal action, really? What laws have been broken? You've any idea how hard it is to extradite foreign nationals, should the culpurts be residing citizens of a foreign country? That the the program was likely traded anonymously and altered by several users along the way. It could take years to find who actually wrote the program. There is a reason developers ban exploiters and patch the holes in their programming (you know the actual root of the problem) rather than try at great to sue, at great cost I might add, program writers.

If Zenimax manages to find even 1 legal reason to take action against them then they are entitled to do so. It's mostly dependent on how persistently they modify the software to bypass their protection specifically and how many players the program costs them due to having to ban them. If they really wanted to they could find ways to track down the owner of the software, or at the very least the owner of their website and the owner of the website could then take action against the website on their behest. There are many things they can do even if it doesn't seem feasible in order to protect their clientele.

You know most of that software is share via bit torrent, right? There's no website it's hosted on. Oh, I know. You think they'll sue chan boards, LoL. You really don't know anything about that sort of stuff...

Let me enlighten you on how this would go. The counter argument would be how did the program get into the closed server in the first place. You mention protecting cilents, well if their server is breach-able have they done enough to protect their cilents? That's a massive gamble which leads to 'expert' against 'expert' testimony. The kind of position you really don't want to be in, in a court of law.

If Zenimax is taking proper procedures to block such software from their server then yes there is plenty of evidence they try to protect it. Also any already-downloaded software would no longer work with the new protective measures which would require the users download the updated software made to combat the protection. You're right in the fact I do not dabble enough with bit torrent to know what's what with their terms of service but any respectable web service would not turn down attempts to stop shady practices. If they do then they themselves are at risk...

XDragonDoomX

LastAmbushOnEarth wrote: »

you will never got a ban for jumping to the keep walls

im doing it every day

and i feel myself very safe agains any bans

please ZOS, show me your hammer lol

but you will not
because you cant


i dont care what you said
but for me its intended mechanics and i will continue to play like that, to use gapclosers and jump to walls
until it will not be nerfed

I hope you get your wish. It's not intended mechanics. ZoS have already stated that gaining entry to a keep without sieging is an exploit.

Turelus

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

LastAmbushOnEarth wrote: »

you will never got a ban for jumping to the keep walls

im doing it every day

and i feel myself very safe agains any bans

please ZOS, show me your hammer lol

but you will not
because you cant


i dont care what you said
but for me its intended mechanics and i will continue to play like that, to use gapclosers and jump to walls
until it will not be nerfed

I hope you get your wish. It's not intended mechanics. ZoS have already stated that gaining entry to a keep without sieging is an exploit.

If ZOS start enforcing this they better bet ready to enforce a while lot more.

I think the only time I ever saw them take action against skill/set abuse was the Mundas exploit, and even then it was only talk of action I saw, never heard of anyone who was actually banned for it. When you had some EU PVP guilds posting pictures of themselves in PvP with all the Mundas stones active at once...

Manpoints

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ok I think I have a solution for keep jumpers that Zenimax can get behind without losing players (not as many anyway lol):

So someone gets caught keep jumping in Cyrodiil. Following the usual punishment methods that player could be booted from Cyrodiil and cannot return to it for an hour with a warning message saying why. If they return after the hour is up and persist I say ban that person from Cyrodiil entirely for a few days. They would be unable to enter campaigns at all until that expires, and to make the punishment stick more, for both the warning and the second punishment, it would be spread to EVERY CHARACTER in that account. A third time would result in that account being permanently kicked out of Cyrodiil, no matter how many times they delete and remake characters. This could also apply to any other exploits going on.

For cheat engine users though it's clear that the culprits need to be banned from the entire game, regardless of how many people Zenimax loses. If that many people are cheating then something went wrong in the first place, and I'd say Zenimax should take legal action against the makers of the cheat engine to get to the root of the problem. Also it's only PC players that have access to CE so at MOST they lose 1/3rd of their entire population.

There wont be legal action against CE. CE Specifically advises not to use their tool for multiplayer games and removes posts on their forums of development for multiplayer use. The problem isn't CE, its the players - ban the players, then there's no problem. YES, you will cut what I assume now is a surprisingly large amount of the population (maybe the cause of their hesitation) BUT you will help repair your damaged reputation and start to instill some level of confidence in you from your customer base.

I dont think they're going to do anything though, baby definitely got put in the corner so our complaints about the hacking are contained.

UltimaJoe777

Manpoints wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ok I think I have a solution for keep jumpers that Zenimax can get behind without losing players (not as many anyway lol):

So someone gets caught keep jumping in Cyrodiil. Following the usual punishment methods that player could be booted from Cyrodiil and cannot return to it for an hour with a warning message saying why. If they return after the hour is up and persist I say ban that person from Cyrodiil entirely for a few days. They would be unable to enter campaigns at all until that expires, and to make the punishment stick more, for both the warning and the second punishment, it would be spread to EVERY CHARACTER in that account. A third time would result in that account being permanently kicked out of Cyrodiil, no matter how many times they delete and remake characters. This could also apply to any other exploits going on.

For cheat engine users though it's clear that the culprits need to be banned from the entire game, regardless of how many people Zenimax loses. If that many people are cheating then something went wrong in the first place, and I'd say Zenimax should take legal action against the makers of the cheat engine to get to the root of the problem. Also it's only PC players that have access to CE so at MOST they lose 1/3rd of their entire population.

There wont be legal action against CE. CE Specifically advises not to use their tool for multiplayer games and removes posts on their forums of development for multiplayer use. The problem isn't CE, its the players - ban the players, then there's no problem. YES, you will cut what I assume now is a surprisingly large amount of the population (maybe the cause of their hesitation) BUT you will help repair your damaged reputation and start to instill some level of confidence in you from your customer base.

I dont think they're going to do anything though, baby definitely got put in the corner so our complaints about the hacking are contained.

If CE is actually against their product being used on MMORPGs and advises against it then yes legal action cannot be taken and it is the sole fault of the users. However, you still have to wonder how it is able to be used that way in the first place, and how protective measures to prevent its use can be bypassed, if it has been.

LastAmbushOnEarth

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

LastAmbushOnEarth wrote: »

you will never got a ban for jumping to the keep walls

im doing it every day

and i feel myself very safe agains any bans

please ZOS, show me your hammer lol

but you will not
because you cant


i dont care what you said
but for me its intended mechanics and i will continue to play like that, to use gapclosers and jump to walls
until it will not be nerfed

I hope you get your wish. It's not intended mechanics. ZoS have already stated that gaining entry to a keep without sieging is an exploit.

not fixed for 2 years of game - intended
will be nerfed - okay
until this all pvp player will use it like me

maybe zos said its not intended
well, i dont care

but its logically and obviously looks very natural for me
i have a skill to jump for big distance
im using it to up on the big wall

nothing against the nature of pvp, nothing against game atmosphere and logic

Manpoints

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Manpoints wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ok I think I have a solution for keep jumpers that Zenimax can get behind without losing players (not as many anyway lol):

So someone gets caught keep jumping in Cyrodiil. Following the usual punishment methods that player could be booted from Cyrodiil and cannot return to it for an hour with a warning message saying why. If they return after the hour is up and persist I say ban that person from Cyrodiil entirely for a few days. They would be unable to enter campaigns at all until that expires, and to make the punishment stick more, for both the warning and the second punishment, it would be spread to EVERY CHARACTER in that account. A third time would result in that account being permanently kicked out of Cyrodiil, no matter how many times they delete and remake characters. This could also apply to any other exploits going on.

For cheat engine users though it's clear that the culprits need to be banned from the entire game, regardless of how many people Zenimax loses. If that many people are cheating then something went wrong in the first place, and I'd say Zenimax should take legal action against the makers of the cheat engine to get to the root of the problem. Also it's only PC players that have access to CE so at MOST they lose 1/3rd of their entire population.

There wont be legal action against CE. CE Specifically advises not to use their tool for multiplayer games and removes posts on their forums of development for multiplayer use. The problem isn't CE, its the players - ban the players, then there's no problem. YES, you will cut what I assume now is a surprisingly large amount of the population (maybe the cause of their hesitation) BUT you will help repair your damaged reputation and start to instill some level of confidence in you from your customer base.

I dont think they're going to do anything though, baby definitely got put in the corner so our complaints about the hacking are contained.

If CE is actually against their product being used on MMORPGs and advises against it then yes legal action cannot be taken and it is the sole fault of the users. However, you still have to wonder how it is able to be used that way in the first place, and how protective measures to prevent its use can be bypassed, if it has been.

Its able to be used for anything done client side - as far as Im aware the ratio of serverside-clientside information has changed in order to reduce lag, and the checks done have been reduce - but *shrug* Zos does have the ability to ban every single person who used it, they just dont want to for some reason opting instead to provide 'second chances', I honestly dont know what they think they are gaining by keeping these people around.

UltimaJoe777

Manpoints wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Manpoints wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ok I think I have a solution for keep jumpers that Zenimax can get behind without losing players (not as many anyway lol):

So someone gets caught keep jumping in Cyrodiil. Following the usual punishment methods that player could be booted from Cyrodiil and cannot return to it for an hour with a warning message saying why. If they return after the hour is up and persist I say ban that person from Cyrodiil entirely for a few days. They would be unable to enter campaigns at all until that expires, and to make the punishment stick more, for both the warning and the second punishment, it would be spread to EVERY CHARACTER in that account. A third time would result in that account being permanently kicked out of Cyrodiil, no matter how many times they delete and remake characters. This could also apply to any other exploits going on.

For cheat engine users though it's clear that the culprits need to be banned from the entire game, regardless of how many people Zenimax loses. If that many people are cheating then something went wrong in the first place, and I'd say Zenimax should take legal action against the makers of the cheat engine to get to the root of the problem. Also it's only PC players that have access to CE so at MOST they lose 1/3rd of their entire population.

There wont be legal action against CE. CE Specifically advises not to use their tool for multiplayer games and removes posts on their forums of development for multiplayer use. The problem isn't CE, its the players - ban the players, then there's no problem. YES, you will cut what I assume now is a surprisingly large amount of the population (maybe the cause of their hesitation) BUT you will help repair your damaged reputation and start to instill some level of confidence in you from your customer base.

I dont think they're going to do anything though, baby definitely got put in the corner so our complaints about the hacking are contained.

If CE is actually against their product being used on MMORPGs and advises against it then yes legal action cannot be taken and it is the sole fault of the users. However, you still have to wonder how it is able to be used that way in the first place, and how protective measures to prevent its use can be bypassed, if it has been.

Its able to be used for anything done client side - as far as Im aware the ratio of serverside-clientside information has changed in order to reduce lag, and the checks done have been reduce - but *shrug* Zos does have the ability to ban every single person who used it, they just dont want to for some reason opting instead to provide 'second chances', I honestly dont know what they think they are gaining by keeping these people around.

Paying customers, of course. With their population count far below what they want and so many using cheats and exploits they are in a bind in how to punish cheaters while not cutting out a large chunk of their playerbase.

daemonios

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel

We're now seeing players bragging about exploiting, namely through using gap closers to enter keeps in Cyrodiil, both in this thread and in other threads.

When asked about this, you have clearly stated that wall jumping is an exploit. Exploiting is against the ToS.

Why then are you doing absolutely nothing about it? Why are you validating and empowering cheaters? Why are you not helping those players who just want to enjoy the game on a relatively level playing field?

I'll just leave one comment here as an example of how absurd the situation's gotten. It's a straight quote from a forum user, it's his words, so I'd say it's not naming and shaming, though at this point I honestly don't know how you enforce your own rules.

Azurethe wrote: »

But I mean, its like, I look at the ground and there are like 30-40 AD dead, and I think like, this is pretty sad


Then I look at my AP per hour and it shows 160K and then I feel better about myself


Its wrong ofc, and its our issue, but its also ZOS' for breaking something so important to the game's structure

XDragonDoomX

LastAmbushOnEarth wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

LastAmbushOnEarth wrote: »

you will never got a ban for jumping to the keep walls

im doing it every day

and i feel myself very safe agains any bans

please ZOS, show me your hammer lol

but you will not
because you cant


i dont care what you said
but for me its intended mechanics and i will continue to play like that, to use gapclosers and jump to walls
until it will not be nerfed

I hope you get your wish. It's not intended mechanics. ZoS have already stated that gaining entry to a keep without sieging is an exploit.

not fixed for 2 years of game - intended
will be nerfed - okay
until this all pvp player will use it like me

maybe zos said its not intended
well, i dont care

but its logically and obviously looks very natural for me
i have a skill to jump for big distance
im using it to up on the big wall

nothing against the nature of pvp, nothing against game atmosphere and logic

Its cheating - its against the game atmosphere. Its exploiting - its against the nature of pvp.
You're a self confessed cheat & exploiter.
There's something called Integrity - look it up. There are dictionaries available to help with the long words.