Cheating and Exploits

Xylphan

LastAmbushOnEarth wrote: »

NobleNerd wrote: »

LastAmbushOnEarth wrote: »

NobleNerd wrote: »

LastAmbushOnEarth wrote: »

if cheaters and bottters in the game
at least its a good sign - the game still popular!

LOL... these are just normal players taking advantage of broken coding and game mechanics. There are no gold sellers in this game. They left about a few months after it launched because there was no profit in it. If you see gold sellers coming back then it is a sign that the game is popular, they only try to stick around in games that have a thriving population.... heck I still run into them in WoW.

@NobleNerd i will dissapoint you
but thereris ALOT goldsellers in this game
and gold have a good price
just google

they just stop advertise their services in the chats and ingame mails

There is a website for every MMO to purchase gold. Even EQ and EQII have websites. If they aren't in the game then there isn't much of a focus or demand for it.

@NobleNerd you are so far from truth

okay i will not try to convinience you
and such matter prohibited on the forum
but if you try research first, you will figure out you can earn alot$ by gs in teso
i know few ppl who doing it, and the demand is very high always

So...you know people who are breaking the ToS and you're not reporting them?

You are part of the problem.

LastAmbushOnEarth

if i will figure out their @id i will report them immediatly

NobleNerd

LastAmbushOnEarth wrote: »

if i will figure out their @id i will report them immediatly

SO you "know" a few people who are doing it, but you must not know them that well to not know their @ID that everyone uses in the game and is even on their mouse over now?

I call BS on this one!

LastAmbushOnEarth

you know nothing, Jon Snow
and also you living in internet only!

Turelus

Taken a bit of time away from this thread but I wanted to come back to show I am still pushing for changes on these issues and add some more.

Naming & Shaming
I actually agree with ZOS regarding this issue. Naming and shaming of players isn't fair on the player and doesn't do anything to improve the games community.
This community has always had its divides and we have seen much bickering and name calling on the forums for the last two years. Recently with the knowledge of the cheat engine becoming more wide known this bickering has moved to the slander of others players, baseless accusations and attempts to discredit them for cheating. Rarely are these backed up with proof and only that the person making the accusations "knows the truth".
If a player is reported cheating, and it's a known public accusation then that reputation will be with them forever whether proved true or not. As such it's better that names are said in private with ZOS staff and that action is taken where due.

I would also urge that the community understand here that just because you think someone is cheating doesn't mean that they are. This is where the reporting to ZOS happens and you leave it with them to deal with.
This game is riddled with niche synergies and builds which can sometimes look or feel like someone is cheating, adding to that the continuation of bugs and exploitable FOTM skills/builds which can make players seem almost god like.

The less we muddy the water with false reports or claims the easier it is for the ZOS staff to find the real cheaters, as such I also advise against taking mass reporting actions.

Clearer Rules & Information
I would call once again on ZOS to release some clear statements on what is and isn't against the rules, to take the time to create a page much like the EVE Online page to help explain to all players what is and isn't punishable as a cheat or an exploit.
The ToS has a broad cover of issues which gives ZOS the freedom to act but many have not read this and ESO caters to many who have not experienced an MMO or an online game before and may not know what's expected of them.
These are some of the issues which this page could clafify to new and veteran players alike.

• Animation Cancelling is not a cheat/exploit.
• Macro use which requires a player to press a button is not a cheat/exploit.
• The use of Third Party Programs is not permitted.
• Bypassing keep walls without taking them down (final ZOS clarification).
• Bypassing world design to gain access to areas you're not meant to access is an exploit.
• Running a scroll for you main faction with an alt in a rival faction (final ZOS clarification)

Clearer Information Regarding the Punishment System
This recently came to light in a separate thread. It should be noted this reply whilst apparently from ZOS CS hasn't been confirmed and was in a case regarding racism not cheating/exploiting.

"Speaking generally, there are three potential actions that we can take in response to abusive behavior. For minor offenses, we typically issue a warning. For more serious offenses, or for repeat offenders, we suspend the game account for 72 hours. Accounts that continue to offend even after suspension, or whose offense is truly egregious, are permanently banned.

Our disciplinary decisions are based on a thorough investigation of the reported incident, and sometimes it takes awhile before we're ready to take action. We like to remind players that they can take more immediate action with a toxic player while we're working on a more permanent solution, but please be assured that we still investigate all reports of offensive behavior."

From the above we can take that it seems ZOS is using a three strike system which has been seen in other MMO games.
The idea of a strike system is it gives players who may not know any better a chance to turn back and remain in the game, this means the company holds onto a player and the game remains fair as they won't cheat again.

If the above is what ZOS are using as their system for rules enforcement I would advise them that coming forward with such would be good for communication and help the community understand when they see offenders return to the game after only 72 hours.

I would advise ZOS to take a look at their strike system if it is as above and read the following blog from CCP Games relating to changes in their strike system.

Additionally the above article outlines their bans policy.

• 1st strike for botting is a 30 day ban
• 2nd strike for botting is a permanent ban
• Any client modification is a permanent ban on first offense
• Any involvement in RMT is a permanent ban on first offense

As you can see they take a very hard line on the last two issues. This is mostly due to the fact EVE is a persistent sandbox and those actions have dramatic effects on the game, however in the case of ESO delivering a fair and competitive gaming environment in both Cyrodiil and PvE leaderboads has been expressed and demanded by the community.

Don't Reward Cheats/Exploits
This one is the issue which I have the most friction with ZOS over.
There has been very good supporting evidence from players who have been through bans that ZOS doesn't change assets on the account during or after the ban. This means that players who cheat/exploit and only face a warning/suspension get to keep all their cheated/exploited gains and benefit from them.

Now we have heard from Jessica in previous posts that ZOS have access to logs about players activities as shown in the quote below.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.

As such it should be possible for them to identify some of the gains which the player made and have those removed from the account. If items have been sold or traded away already then some sort of penalty on a players gold should instead be imposed.

The main reason I ask for this is because this is the biggest reason I hear from most players on why they do/will cheat/exploit the next one which allows it. They feel the gains outweigh the costs at this time and don't mind a suspension in return for exploited good.

Internal Communication
It's been shown with some of the recent issues that somewhere within ZOS there is an issue with communication or prioritization of issues being resolved.
There needs to be a better system in which when an exploit is reported and clearly identified it's placed on highest priority for fixing. Normally time could be taken with these issues if they're not widely known, however as we have seen recently this community is all too eager to abuse these issues and word of them spreads fast and they are abused greatly.
We shouldn't need to post issues on the forums and strong arm ZOS into fixing them when they have already been identified and reported. Whatever the issues internally are which cause this should be discussed and addressed.

External Communication
This has improved but is still feeling lacking for many. Those who have come from other MMO game have expectations of what and how much is said when issues arise.
Normally we have a reply from a community member or forums moderator to say the issues are being looked into but it can then be days before we get any additional information. We also don't really see any large news or blogs about issues just forums comments which get buried pages behind the normal threads.

Here are some ideas of what other games and companies have done and what might go towards appeasing the playerbase on this issue.

• Warnings on the launcher/log-in screen/forums about abuse of a recently discovered exploit. No information of what it is only that you know and to help discourage people from abusing it. You can also link to your ToS/Rules page to re-inform players of rules.
• Choose a single thread to be the one on the issue (as normally done) and give an updated post daily even if it's just to say you're still working on the issue and monitoring it within the game.
• When issues are resolved have an announcement made via a post on the forums or news article.
• For very large issues (like the recent two) have someone senior come forward and write something to reassure the player base that it was handled and you take issues seriously. Although the community team do a good job hearing from a senior member of ZOS carries more weight.
• Release quarterly updates about bans/suspensions, materials/gold removed, etc. via a blog or news article. This continues to show the community that actions are taken and gives us some awesome statistics and graphs to look/laugh at. This can be done on a monthly basis as well but quarterly is less demanding. Additionally these being written by someone within ZOS who works on the security/GM side of things would help show there is a team and give it a face.

Personal Notes
This took a while to write so I really hope someone at ZOS reads it (and is open minded about it).
Yes I link to EVE Online / CCP Games a lot but that's because their one of the leading companies in this area right now.
I make no apologies for typos or nonsensical reading.
My subscription is still cancelled based on that I don't yet feel confident these issues are resolved and I haven't had my faith restored.
I hope ZOS can prove to be more organised than my government (UK) are right now.

Rohamad_Ali

I just want an update and a progress report . My credit card will stay dusty in the mean time . WTB consumer confidence .

Thalmor-Nordmaster

The guy that did know the @id's of the GS was banned.But this thread is about cheating not selling round things.

Zenimax can we get a list of prohibited "Peripherals" and associated software that comes with these peripherals?The TOS is lacking in this department

Also in addition to the proposed monthly report could we get a report showing these items
1. Total amounts of monthly reports
2. Amount of founded reports
3. Amount of unfounded reports
4. List of bannable exploits
5. A listing on the total number of Cat Pictures that have been posted to the forums

Thalmor-Nordmaster

Roehamad no don't let card get dusty. Buy snacky treats and shoes.
Turelus +1

NobleNerd

@Turelus Great write up in the above post!

Though I have never played EVE I have heard that the company does one of the best jobs policing cheats, exploits, etc. I do know from years of playing that Blizzard also responds and handles cheats well.

Even though I have sidelined my ESO play I would love to have the "consumer confidence" to come back to a game that I can enjoy & for me that is the Cyrodiil siege gameplay. Unfortunately I do not see this being an enjoyable play with all the issues still not being effectively addressed. I have read and watched videos since the DB launch and the most recent anti-cheat update of players still abusing exploits and cheats.... some even sound/appear to still be using Cheat Engine.

Pomaikai

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We wanted to reiterate here what we said on ESO Live today, for anyone who wasn't able to tune in. We have rolled out additional anti-cheat measures, with more to come. We know everyone in this thread is well aware of this, but we would like to remind all of our players that the use of third party cheat software is grounds for a permanent ban.

But fixes and improvements that don't work as expected on your side are part of the cheating and exploit topic so how can we discuss this as customers when there is always impact on disciplinary actions what is against forum rules? Please explain.

On the other hand you have tried to improve your cheat detection system but apparently it also resulted in some false positives. For example banning players that are using refreshing path and sprint as NB in VMA and we are not allowed to discuss such customers cases. Well actually it's part of testing especially when it was reproducable so it's odd to ignore this.

Are you aware of the fact that some players are afraid to use skills that provide speed just because things like that happened? So basically you have customers that avoid playing specific content and skills because nobody knows what is going on since your changes and of course honest players don't want to run in a false positive trap because of possible bugs on your side.

While I really appreciate your personal help and close work with community @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and @ZOS_KaiSchober there are so many severe customer issues that leave the impression that customers are being ignored whenever it's a critical issue on your side that actually should be cleary communicated. The silence on some topics confirm this.

There is no cheat page or anything similar either, and why do you allow gap closer exploiter and DKs still jump into closed keeps without any consequences? It's a known issue since ages and you said the DK fix is not that easy like Ambush on NB 2 weeks ago. So you basically cannot provide a solution but still allow every exploiter to continue because it has no consequences. Now please explain, why should customers accept this?

I only can speak for my self and not for the community but I feel that we are left alone as ESO fans and customers.

All I am asking for is a better communication.
Many things didn't change or make old problems worst in a new way, I want to trust the company that you represent.
But if the silence continues on severe topics like cheating and exploiting I can't.

I play a nightblade and I have and continue to use all these abilities to increase speed and I have not been banned. I am not saying there weren't some false positives but wouldn't I have been caught in it as well since I do these same things that people say caused the false positives?

You might don't know how to reproduce the VMA temp ban and not fast enough like most VMA top scoring players.
We all don't know the factors that can trigger the cheat detection tool for anomaly detection.

A fact is that there are false positives and exactly thats why this needs some clarification because you cannot classify all customers as guilty until proven innocence without explaining such severe mistakes. It's just not acceptable for customers.

But now lets talk about the worst thing of all, why would a game company decide to ban cheaters only for 72 hours when they are certain their cheat detection tool is working as expected? Wouldn't it result in a perma ban right away?

I totally agree with ZOS that they cannot discuss details with us because privacy rules and all the relations to disciplinary action makes things more complicated but at least they could make themselves clear about cheating and give us more reasons to trust in what are they actually doing. Currently I highly doubt that this is the case and the present silence is not changing anything.

Which is why I called for ZOS way early in this thread to publicly announce their policy on cheating and then adhered to to policy they set forth. Not doing so is hurting the confidence people have in this game and when confidence in a product goes down...well.

I've been doing the same thing, and it's frustrating beyond belief.

Idinuse

Turelus wrote: »

[*]Macro use which requires a player to press a button is not a cheat/exploit.

I agree in much everything you say. However that Macros are allowed by Zos has to be something like an urban myth .

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2512949/#Comment_2512949

ZOS_AlanG wrote:

Idinuse wrote:

"You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of ‘bots’, “speed hacks”, “deep-link”, “page-scrape”, “robot”, “spider”, algorithm or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums)."
ToS from Eso

Thank you for providing the quote, @Idinuse, using macros is against the terms of service. We certainly don't mind a thread being created to ask about this, but this is starting to delve into more detail than is acceptable on the forums so we are locking this thread.

Turelus

Idinuse wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

[*]Macro use which requires a player to press a button is not a cheat/exploit.

I agree in much everything you say. However that Macros are allowed by Zos has to be something like an urban myth .

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2512949/#Comment_2512949

ZOS_AlanG wrote:

Idinuse wrote:

"You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of ‘bots’, “speed hacks”, “deep-link”, “page-scrape”, “robot”, “spider”, algorithm or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums)."
ToS from Eso

Thank you for providing the quote, @Idinuse, using macros is against the terms of service. We certainly don't mind a thread being created to ask about this, but this is starting to delve into more detail than is acceptable on the forums so we are locking this thread.

Well then this just goes further to prove my point that no one actually knows what any of the rules are and a page clarifying them is probably a good idea!

You see there are a lot of bits of information like this which should be known get lost as their just normal forums replies and never compiled.

Thanks for the info though, as far as I was aware stringing skills together with a keyboard/mouse macro wasn't against ToS. +1 insightful for you.

Thalmor-Nordmaster

The witch hunt is real from players. I logged in and was figuring out what I was going to do in Cyrodiil. Sticking out the campaign so as not to be seen a quitter. When lo and behold. I get accused of cheating in game by a player. Im like Wat! I'm on a level 30 templar wtf over. And they immediately accused me of being a cheater as in their mind you cant be level 32 and Legionary!

I tried to avoid them and they ran me down and started on me again.,They kept this up for like 3 or 4 minutes and then gave me the zergb** offline treatment.

I bought my brothers twitch stream and it was live. I told the guy to chill as i was streaming and he kept it up.

ZOS you need to hurry up and fix this cheat thing. The commoners are burning people at the stakes!!

And Roechacca I made a funny video for you I will send it to you. I hope you like benny hill music. No people it is not a name and shame video. I did a solo siege of glademist. Oh and I subbed to your you tube.

please zos fix the issues. I shouldn't be stalked and harassed in game!

IcyDeadPeople

Pomaikai wrote: »

I've mentioned this before, but EverQuest used a volunteer Guide Program to assist the actual GM's in policing the game. They helped out players, could perform a number of special functions, could observe people accused of botting/exploiting/cheating, and then call in the real GM's as needed to perform enforcement.

Yes, DOTA 2 has a great mentor system. I'd never played before and someone randomly was assigned to help and explain how the game works etc. I believe the mentor gets some kind of reputation points or something.

Pomaikai

They got some special gear, and had their own Guide hang out zone that no one else could get into. I think it was mainly a place to socialize, but as I was never a guide I never actually saw it. I believe they also got to participate in closed betas of new expansions prior to their being released to the Test Server as well.

Pomaikai

Idinuse wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

[*]Macro use which requires a player to press a button is not a cheat/exploit.

I agree in much everything you say. However that Macros are allowed by Zos has to be something like an urban myth .

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2512949/#Comment_2512949

ZOS_AlanG wrote:

Idinuse wrote:

"You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of ‘bots’, “speed hacks”, “deep-link”, “page-scrape”, “robot”, “spider”, algorithm or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums)."
ToS from Eso

Thank you for providing the quote, @Idinuse, using macros is against the terms of service. We certainly don't mind a thread being created to ask about this, but this is starting to delve into more detail than is acceptable on the forums so we are locking this thread.

That thread was from 2015, and was locked because the forum mods thought we were learning too much about what ZOS didn't want us to do. I mean the entire thread was totally innocuous. If that was indeed why the thread was locked, then the sheer stupidity of that decision is mind boggling.

jknight201

NobleNerd wrote: »

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Well cheaters seem to be out in force today, I just saw a plyer go to 0 health then started to do a dance emote with 0 health then heal from 0 to full at the snap of a finger, I want that heal please..LOL

And it was not the phoenix set, or lag.

I don't know how much longer I can continue to play with cheaters running rampant in game..

Would love to have some video of these things still happening. I know not everyone thinks to record when they are playing, but the more the proof is saturated here and on youtube and other websites... the more ZOS will be forced to deal with it!

All the videos, talk on the forums and reports so far haven't made Zos change things. So why do the think that if people start reporting issues now, Zos will reverse course and start addressing the issues? Zos seems to still be in damage-control mode by deleting posts and pretending that the issue doesn't exist.

I tried playing in IC a few days ago and got killed repeatedly to someone spamming their ulti. Report it? Why bother, when people who are known to have cheated are back and still playing?

Don't waste your time, effort or breath. The only thing that is going to get Zos' attention will be when enough people cancel their subs and they get enough bad reviews from popular sources saying "don't bother playing this game, it's rife with cheaters and Zos is doing nothing about it". Only then will they listen.

Pomaikai

The only reporting at this point that will really get things done, is to gaming magazines media outlets.

XDragonDoomX

Turelus wrote: »

[*]Bypassing keep walls without taking them down (final ZOS clarification).

There has been a clarification on this way back..

ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »

Ultimately, any method of entering an enemy keep without breaking down the door is considered an exploit. Thanks for checking!

Dubhliam

jknight201 wrote: »

NobleNerd wrote: »

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Well cheaters seem to be out in force today, I just saw a plyer go to 0 health then started to do a dance emote with 0 health then heal from 0 to full at the snap of a finger, I want that heal please..LOL

And it was not the phoenix set, or lag.

I don't know how much longer I can continue to play with cheaters running rampant in game..

Would love to have some video of these things still happening. I know not everyone thinks to record when they are playing, but the more the proof is saturated here and on youtube and other websites... the more ZOS will be forced to deal with it!

All the videos, talk on the forums and reports so far haven't made Zos change things. So why do the think that if people start reporting issues now, Zos will reverse course and start addressing the issues? Zos seems to still be in damage-control mode by deleting posts and pretending that the issue doesn't exist.

I tried playing in IC a few days ago and got killed repeatedly to someone spamming their ulti. Report it? Why bother, when people who are known to have cheated are back and still playing?

Don't waste your time, effort or breath. The only thing that is going to get Zos' attention will be when enough people cancel their subs and they get enough bad reviews from popular sources saying "don't bother playing this game, it's rife with cheaters and Zos is doing nothing about it". Only then will they listen.

However tempted I am to go to all people I know in media, I don't think it would be a wise idea.
It is very hard to recover from bad publicity. That is one of the reasons naming an shaming is (and should stay) forbidden.

Just take a look at Brexit.
In a recent The Daily Show by Comedy Central, some interviewed brits were asked why they voted to leave the EU.
They said something on the lines of: "It was the only way to make the government listen to our discontent."
And they regret their decision now.

Manpoints

OK SO...

The consensus is...

If you hacked, permanent ban, as its premeditated, there is not 'accidentally' changing values ect.

If you exploited, you shouldn't benefit from it - suspend

The community has spoken, there are very few out-criers disagreeing with these standards. Are we going to get ANY traction on this ZOS? Or have you just provided us a quiet means to spin our wheels in despair as you continue to unban hackers?

Turelus

As much as I want to believe something will happen or things are happening in the background I expect the same thing as with the crafting writ exploits.

ZOS stays silent, we slowly burn out of arguing, some leave the game to be silent for ever, some go back to what it is and the game continues on until the next massive blow up due to nothing changing and we go through all of this all over again...

Why am I so cynical? Because this has been how its happened for the last two years every single time...

NobleNerd

jknight201 wrote: »

NobleNerd wrote: »

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Well cheaters seem to be out in force today, I just saw a plyer go to 0 health then started to do a dance emote with 0 health then heal from 0 to full at the snap of a finger, I want that heal please..LOL

And it was not the phoenix set, or lag.

I don't know how much longer I can continue to play with cheaters running rampant in game..

Would love to have some video of these things still happening. I know not everyone thinks to record when they are playing, but the more the proof is saturated here and on youtube and other websites... the more ZOS will be forced to deal with it!

All the videos, talk on the forums and reports so far haven't made Zos change things. So why do the think that if people start reporting issues now, Zos will reverse course and start addressing the issues? Zos seems to still be in damage-control mode by deleting posts and pretending that the issue doesn't exist.

I tried playing in IC a few days ago and got killed repeatedly to someone spamming their ulti. Report it? Why bother, when people who are known to have cheated are back and still playing?

Don't waste your time, effort or breath. The only thing that is going to get Zos' attention will be when enough people cancel their subs and they get enough bad reviews from popular sources saying "don't bother playing this game, it's rife with cheaters and Zos is doing nothing about it". Only then will they listen.

My point in asking for videos is NOT to inform ZOS about what's happening, your statement is very accurate. I believe ZOS has their head in the sand over this. I am more wanting videos that I can share with my gaming group and also in hopes that other social media sources will flood the internet with it. If we don't go outside these forums with the issue others will never hear about it! I have already seen at least 2 other websites close post about this topic, it is as though Bethesda/Zenimax is threatening them to keep it quiet.

Laggus

Manpoints wrote: »

OK SO...

The consensus is...

If you hacked, permanent ban, as its premeditated, there is not 'accidentally' changing values ect.

If you exploited, you shouldn't benefit from it - suspend

The community has spoken, there are very few out-criers disagreeing with these standards. Are we going to get ANY traction on this ZOS? Or have you just provided us a quiet means to spin our wheels in despair as you continue to unban hackers?

Agreed. Exploits should be programmed out via hotfixes though. How many gap closers are so broken now that they almost all are used to glitch into and on top of Keeps and Outposts. Entirely unintended and entirely ZOS fault in the first place and used by multitudes, even some GMs of guilds that voice their anger at CE use seem to turn a blind eye when it comes to these other types of exploits and use them themselves.

Turelus

Laggus wrote: »

Manpoints wrote: »

OK SO...

The consensus is...

If you hacked, permanent ban, as its premeditated, there is not 'accidentally' changing values ect.

If you exploited, you shouldn't benefit from it - suspend

The community has spoken, there are very few out-criers disagreeing with these standards. Are we going to get ANY traction on this ZOS? Or have you just provided us a quiet means to spin our wheels in despair as you continue to unban hackers?

Agreed. Exploits should be programmed out via hotfixes though. How many gap closers are so broken now that they almost all are used to glitch into and on top of Keeps and Outposts. Entirely unintended and entirely ZOS fault in the first place and used by multitudes, even some GMs of guilds that voice their anger at CE use seem to turn a blind eye when it comes to these other types of exploits and use them themselves.

The problem with broken skills like this in Cyrodiil is it happens so often and ZOS are so slow to fix it the only way to remain competitive is to make use of them. I don't like it at all but it's the sad truth.

I've said in thread before back when the caltrops bug was there to make you immune to siege my guild at the time said "we will not cheat, we will take the high ground" then days later after losing every single siege defence because people had immunity to counter siege we gave up and just joined in until it was fixed.

Don't blame the players entirely for this, it has been ZOS which has set the precedent that "abused until it's fixed" is the norm for PvP in ESO.

Laggus

I honestly get were you are coming from but its still a slippery slope down the can't beat em join em path. Allow minor transgressions and the lines quickly become blurred into more and more stuff until we get to the CE path (imo). One now infamous player (still playing!!) posted a vid of himself to show how leet he was, until everyone saw in the vid he was using the Overload bar exploit and we all know that led onto other worse things with this same player.

Edit: Check out the vMA leaderboard scores vs a few weeks ago to see the difference between now and then.

Dubhliam

Laggus wrote: »

I honestly get were you are coming from but its still a slippery slope down the can't beat em join em path. Allow minor transgressions and the lines quickly become blurred into more and more stuff until we get to the CE path (imo). One now infamous player (still playing!!) posted a vid of himself to show how leet he was, until everyone saw in the vid he was using the Overload bar exploit and we all know that led onto other worse things with this same player.

Edit: Check out the vMA leaderboard scores vs a few weeks ago to see the difference between now and then.

This is the reason I do not approve of @Nifty2g 's Mundus exploiting for the sake of "healthy guild competiton".

Such small transgressions that were allowed to fester in the community have crooked the perception of many players as to what is considered cheating or exploiting.

There are a few things ZOS should do to improve the current situation:

1. Communicate better with the community.
2. Promptly fix broken skills and mechanics and not don't implement those skills that were reported during PTS testing.
3. Enforce a strict one-strike policy for usage of third-party programs.

Runs

Sigh...

Last night noticed a 501CP Sorc in Wrothgar doing light attacks aimed at the spawn point of 2 ogres with her pets out as well. So many light attacks, followed by a random emote, then so many light attacks followed by either bag look per personality?... Over and over.

Saw here again there later doing the exact same. Reported.

Here it is morning and still she has been doing it. Reported again with video. Still standing watching finally the person gets back to the computer and sees me watching so backs away. We are now involved in a staring contest as she refuses to go back to light attack light attack light attack with me watching.

WTF is a 501 plus cheating to gain CP when the next increase is only going to be 30. Oh I know why. Because there is no repercussions for their actions. Thanks ZOS.

Zoner

Saw more bots and speed hackers running around the coldharbour alchemy reagent route.

Followed one guy who hadn't programmed his bit correctly, so it was just going to the plants, standing over then without picking for 2 seconds, and then continuing the route.

After coming back to his computer after 2.5 hours I see him check his bag - he must have been p***ed at having no flowers - and then I tell him to stop botting. He calls me an a**hole and tells me he wasn't until I remind him I know he got no flowers because he screwed up his bot and he must be mad af.

He won't stop though. If a hacker gets off then why would people doing anything else be afraid of consequences?

Pomaikai

The more I see everything going on in the game and on the forums, all I can think of is that we've been abandoned on this island of Tamriel, and it's Lord of the Flies now. The cheaters have the conch.