Cheating and Exploits

Lava_Croft

@Turelus : Stop paying money to this company.

Turelus

Dracane wrote: »

Maybe I am naive, but I don't believe in hacks and cheats in an MMO.
I am playing since Beta and I have never seen anything odd, besides bugs and exploits.

@Dracane go to YouTube, search ESO Cheat Engine. Enjoy watching people rain down infinite meteors.

Or go back though this thread and look at all the videos posted, about a month ago some players made a very big show of what is possible via cheat programs. This is very real and has happened.

mike_de

Nénlindë wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

Nénlindë wrote: »

I've never seen a single hacker on ESO, I'm on PS4.

And that's why. Consoles don't have easily accessed cheat programs like the PC does.

Oh, so PC is where it's happening. Why don't they just ban them?

You're right. My personal opinion in that matter is, that cheaters in MMOs are the scum of the earth.

Even Valve has figured out, that a timed ban is useless against cheaters. If they come back, the majority of them cheats again. It's a character flaw or sickness. So they implemented their no mercy, no discusion, 1st offender perma VAC ban policy.

Ubisoft has figured out the same thing in their newest game, "The Division". Tried timed bans. They now switch gradually to the same policy as Valve, figuring out the same thing as Valve, that cheaters are cheaters. And will be cheaters.

I think, in MMO games there is a better chance to mend that, as in other multiplayer games: Give the cheaters their own world wide server, and keep them there. One cheat try, and they have to move there, with no chance getting back to the normal crowd.

Problem solved. And not even one customer lost with that solution.

Maintenance only once in a month, because they are not able to complain about anything. Because their hacks could make the game unstable.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

@Turelus : Stop paying money to this company.

That is a good start. Canceling the ESO+ membership, and stop buying crowns and writing them, why you canceled your subscription is the only thing a company cares about, and the ONLY valid argument to strengthen your position. They have to act, because their lack of action costs them money.

Tavore1138

Dracane wrote: »

Maybe I am naive, but I don't believe in hacks and cheats in an MMO.
I am playing since Beta and I have never seen anything odd, besides bugs and exploits.

Yes, you are naive - many videos are out there of people exploiting in very blatant ways, some made deliberately to expose this issue because a 'smart' cheater is not going to drop dozens of meteors on your head they are going just tweak up their stats etc.

Google and youtube are your friend here if you really want to see what is currently possible...

Laggus

Dracane wrote: »

Maybe I am naive, but I don't believe in hacks and cheats in an MMO.
I am playing since Beta and I have never seen anything odd, besides bugs and exploits.

Same as ZOS.

SantieClaws

Khajiit poses a question.

How can someone be so insecure and maladjusted that they feel the need to cheat in a game?

This is not a match of the football, there is no career at stake - the game is something we do to amuse ourselves yes?

So why cheat? You really gain nothing at all. The only gain is a fleeting boost to the ego. Only someone with problems to begin with needs that sort of ego boost.

Yours with puzzled paws
Santie Claws

Turelus

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit poses a question.

How can someone be so insecure and maladjusted that they feel the need to cheat in a game?

This is not a match of the football, there is no career at stake - the game is something we do to amuse ourselves yes?

So why cheat? You really gain nothing at all. The only gain is a fleeting boost to the ego. Only someone with problems to begin with needs that sort of ego boost.

Yours with puzzled paws
Santie Claws

Some people do it because they also get a kick out of ruining other people's games, some because they want to beat everyone no matter what, some because they want to clear monotonous content faster, some because they lack the skill or ability to clear it without help.

Various reasons can be found, some malicious some not. Once you open a game up to multiple people and have systems where fair play is required though you need to also have systems in place to guarantee that fair play, else you see what we have here today.

Dral_Shady

Dracane wrote: »

Maybe I am naive, but I don't believe in hacks and cheats in an MMO.
I am playing since Beta and I have never seen anything odd, besides bugs and exploits.

Well besides from the countless videos of people firing of ultimates of every 1, there is the whole other much more subtle problem. If they can change stats in CE and give themselves ex. better hp/sta/magicka regen it can be hard to detect for other players.
The situation now is we dont know and we cant really get any information from Zenimax but the user confidence is at an all time low so good players MIGHT be accused of hacking if we think "woa this player seems to handle his ressources a little too well"
We need clarification and we need to know something is going to be done about it.

Aaaaaannnd the whole client trust issue..... sigh besides from giving away a way to cheat, this is prolly also atleast part of the reason of the lag we see in Cyrodil. I.... just... dont...know....why a game design descission like that was allowed....... /sigh

Bromburak

Dracane wrote: »

Maybe I am naive, but I don't believe in hacks and cheats in an MMO.
I am playing since Beta and I have never seen anything odd, besides bugs and exploits.

Well it's not that simple like you are used to it from other game scenes like shooters etc..
As soon competition gets more and more important in a game the cheaters will rise.

In MMOs like ESO we don't really have a serious leader board or a real challenge from competition and E-sport perspective.
So in comparison to many other games cheaters have no reason to play MMOs to cheat.

But you cannot ignore the handful that do, bad losers are running around in every game ...

sadownik

Dracane wrote: »

Maybe I am naive, but I don't believe in hacks and cheats in an MMO.
I am playing since Beta and I have never seen anything odd, besides bugs and exploits.

You are, you truly are.

Xylphan

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Arguing with you doesn't really further your demand for answers that apparently are not forth coming. If you think I don't care that there are cheaters in game then you would be wrong. But I'm not going to demand, banning, or taking items or any of the other things people have stated should happen because frankly it's not my business that is ZOS decision.

Do you pay for this game? Do you enjoy this game? Do you want to see it continue? If yes, then it is your business. You are giving them money or supporting them. They are providing a broken product with a self-destructive flaw.

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

If you go back to my original post I said 'some people' not all. But you know this is irrelevant, because I just can't get myself that worked up over a video game. Something you may want to think about, when prioritizing life, MMOs are only a hobby for me.

It's a hobby for a lot of people. So is watching baseball, or watching football. I suppose, by your logic, that the NFL/NBA/etc. shouldn't bother with cheaters and roid users because its just a game, right? Why should you or anyone care if player X or team Y corked their bats, defalted footballs, etc.

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

When and if you finally get a response I seriously doubt some of the people here will be satisfied.

There will always be people who are unsatisfied. That's not the point. The point is whether or not something is being done and satisfactorily. When cheating happens elsewhere, there's a response. Usually, a public one on what it was and what's being done. We haven't had that.

This game has competitive aspects to it, just like a game of poker or blackjack. I'm pretty sure that if you went to play, and the other guys were always palming aces and faces, you probably would stop playing with them even though it's "just a hobby".

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Yes I stand by the venom comment. So I'm a white knight if that makes you feel vindicated in dismissing my opinion then I will wear that label with pride.

As I said before, I'm not dismissing your opinion. In a competitive game where people spend real money, you seem to think that we peons don't deserve to know what's going on and what's being done about it. You will find very few people who will agree with you.

rfennell_ESO

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit poses a question.

How can someone be so insecure and maladjusted that they feel the need to cheat in a game?

This is not a match of the football, there is no career at stake - the game is something we do to amuse ourselves yes?

So why cheat? You really gain nothing at all. The only gain is a fleeting boost to the ego. Only someone with problems to begin with needs that sort of ego boost.

Yours with puzzled paws
Santie Claws

I know of a certain forum poster that people on the same faction say they used to duel with their other faction character and beat all the time. Until that forum poster became "awesome" over night.

You have to understand that they get "rock star" status in game. Particularly in that it's not really affecting their factionmates, they don't have to fight them.

Xylphan

Thornen wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

NobleNerd wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Xylphan wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Why is it white Knighting when asking why people feel the need to bash? Just as you did to me with your first sentence.

I actually have followed this and the other locked thread I just don't share the same bashing opinions. And don't feel the need to demand answers even though I am a paying customer.

So would you like to bully me some more because I don't share your view, if it makes you feel better go ahead. I don't run with the pack.

Nice try playing the victim, but I didn't bash you. You came off as not having read the threads by just broad-stroking everyone as venomous bashers, then asking the rhetorical question of why they would bother responding to this thread when it was specifically stated that this is the only thread allowed for discussing the topic without getting locked/deleted/banned/etc.

Most people don't like paying for broken things. You apparently don't have an issue with that. That's fine, but since you don't really have a dog in this fight, why do you care?

Arguing with you doesn't really further your demand for answers that apparently are not forth coming. If you think I don't care that there are cheaters in game then you would be wrong. But I'm not going to demand, banning, or taking items or any of the other things people have stated should happen because frankly it's not my business that is ZOS decision. If you go back to my original post I said 'some people' not all. But you know this is irrelevant, because I just can't get myself that worked up over a video game. Something you may want to think about, when prioritizing life, MMOs are only a hobby for me.

When and if you finally get a response I seriously doubt some of the people here will be satisfied. Yes I stand by the venom comment. So I'm a white knight if that makes you feel vindicated in dismissing my opinion then I will wear that label with pride.

I have a number of hobbies and where competition is involved then I expect rules to be enforced... doesn't matter if it is gaming online, gaming offline or a sport.

It is very much our business what ZOS do or do not do about it because it tells us if this is an honest game or not. Whether it is worth spending money on subs or dlc or crowns.

I think that not getting invested in your hobbies is a little sad for you and I am sorry you don't get enough pleasure out of playing to feel invested in whether your hobby is 'clean'.

I'll be honest and say I suspect your motives are not to further this discussion but to sidetrack it into a little argument to feed your own whatever but... Not my call...

This is what is was thinking while catching up on the posts... I would also add it is a thing called principles and integrity.... of which seems to be lost on ZOS right now. After playing DB PTS I was looking forward to rebuilding the guild and getting back into Cyrodiil again, but after this mess and the way it has been handled many of my gaming community has decided to just go back to WoW where at least things work and we can have fun PvPing!

This is like the 3rd time of heard of groups leaving in mass back to other games . Totally sucks but I get why .

Can you blame them. Only reason I'm still around is waiting for my ESO+ time to runout so I at least feel I got my moneys worth.

I've been having a hard time mustering the motivation even to do that. When I discovered what the cheat was and how it worked (and how long it has been there), I realized that PvP exploitation was just the tip of the iceberg. This, combined with other bugs that have not been addressed for weeks (or longer), has pretty much killed the game for me.

Now I just check the forums to see if anything new has developed. I still have a chunk of time left on my ESO+, so maybe something will happen by the end of it. If not, it's not like there aren't other fish in the sea.

clayandaudrey_ESO

Good morning @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and @ZOS_AlanG. The floor is still yours. We would just like a little update even if it is we are still working on it. The silence is deafening.

Elsonso

sadownik wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Maybe I am naive, but I don't believe in hacks and cheats in an MMO.
I am playing since Beta and I have never seen anything odd, besides bugs and exploits.

You are, you truly are.

Now. Now.

In PVE, outside of things like Trials and Arenas, it is a lot less likely to encounter someone who is using cheating. This is not to say that they are not there, but when we are just out in the world the chances of seeing any one specific random person are very small.

I witnessed several farming bots, including ones that were running around underground, back in April 2014. Since then, I may have seen one speed hacker (CE) farming materials, but it was hard to tell whether they were hacking or just had movement bonuses stacked to the ceiling.

I would not consider someone who has not seen this "naive"... a better term would be "fortunate".

XDragonDoomX

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Not a demand, merely a simple request.

Please give some indication that action is being taken other than a prolonged 'investigation'.

Thanking you in anticipation

Junipus

Anyone know if ZOS' "accidental" admission that players were given another chance despite direct cheating evidence is still available? Have found reposts but not the original by Jessica which seems to have mysteriously vanished. I'm sure there'd be lots of people interested in such a thing.

NobleNerd

Xylphan wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Arguing with you doesn't really further your demand for answers that apparently are not forth coming. If you think I don't care that there are cheaters in game then you would be wrong. But I'm not going to demand, banning, or taking items or any of the other things people have stated should happen because frankly it's not my business that is ZOS decision.

Do you pay for this game? Do you enjoy this game? Do you want to see it continue? If yes, then it is your business. You are giving them money or supporting them. They are providing a broken product with a self-destructive flaw.

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

If you go back to my original post I said 'some people' not all. But you know this is irrelevant, because I just can't get myself that worked up over a video game. Something you may want to think about, when prioritizing life, MMOs are only a hobby for me.

It's a hobby for a lot of people. So is watching baseball, or watching football. I suppose, by your logic, that the NFL/NBA/etc. shouldn't bother with cheaters and roid users because its just a game, right? Why should you or anyone care if player X or team Y corked their bats, defalted footballs, etc.

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

When and if you finally get a response I seriously doubt some of the people here will be satisfied.

There will always be people who are unsatisfied. That's not the point. The point is whether or not something is being done and satisfactorily. When cheating happens elsewhere, there's a response. Usually, a public one on what it was and what's being done. We haven't had that.

This game has competitive aspects to it, just like a game of poker or blackjack. I'm pretty sure that if you went to play, and the other guys were always palming aces and faces, you probably would stop playing with them even though it's "just a hobby".

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Yes I stand by the venom comment. So I'm a white knight if that makes you feel vindicated in dismissing my opinion then I will wear that label with pride.

As I said before, I'm not dismissing your opinion. In a competitive game where people spend real money, you seem to think that we peons don't deserve to know what's going on and what's being done about it. You will find very few people who will agree with you.

@Xylphan Thank you, I don't think I could have said it any better! ZOS's stand, response and how they are handling these issues is everyone's right to know & as of right now I have lost what faith and trust I had left for the company.

Roechacca

Last thing they're gonna do is give a statement without being 100% PR approved anymore. That means don't expect to hear anything until they have a working solution on their end. Not that I agree with that angle but it's easy to see it.

kevlarto_ESO

Ask a cheater why they cheat, I have been told everyone cheats, that is the justification cheaters use to cheat, I told one not everyone, I have been playing mmo's since the 90's never had the urge to cheat. Just a shame we have these scumbags killing a great game like ESO. Turning a blind eye will not make cheating go away.

ShedsHisTail

I keep thinking about the poor moderator who has zero control over any part of this situation but whose job it is to keep an eye on this thread and filter out rule violations.

Poor guy/gal. Being the only person who actually sees this, seeing so much hate directed at the company you work for and try to support. Going home at night feeling like ***. It's gotta be soul-crushing.

SwaminoNowlino

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

I keep thinking about the poor moderator who has zero control over any part of this situation but whose job it is to keep an eye on this thread and filter out rule violations.

Poor guy/gal. Being the only person who actually sees this, seeing so much hate directed at the company you work for and try to support. Going home at night feeling like ***. It's gotta be soul-crushing.

I completely agree. Exactly 0% of the blame falls on @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_AlanG. To me this is the most disappointing thing about all of this. The lack of intervention or word from on high about this or the numerous other problems plaguing the game at the moment is disgraceful. At the very least provide some support for your employees who are just doing their best. But instead Matt remains silent, unless he's out selling 2 dungeons and a barbershop and leaves Jessica and Alan sitting out here with no cover. They'll have an ESO Live here soon I am sure and they won't even address this, when at least half of it needs to be a camera on Matt as he explains what has gone wrong, how it is being fixed, and how he will make sure it never happens again... I feel for you Jessica and Alan, I really do. Shame on management however.

Zaldan

Turelus wrote: »

Speaking of the seven million thing.

It still bugs me that they seem to have a system for recording monster kills, quests completed, bounties paid and mudcrabs killed. Yet no logs as to what players have farmed when it comes to removal of items from exploiting accounts.

Either the numbers in the trailer were faked, or they do have the logs for the items but just haven't take the choice to remove anything.

This isn't meant as a snarky post (though it could be read as it without me saying this) it just honestly confuses me.

i'd go with guesstimate for any of those numbers personally

Turelus

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

I keep thinking about the poor moderator who has zero control over any part of this situation but whose job it is to keep an eye on this thread and filter out rule violations.

Poor guy/gal. Being the only person who actually sees this, seeing so much hate directed at the company you work for and try to support. Going home at night feeling like ***. It's gotta be soul-crushing.

I'm guessing from the updates it's mostly DaryaK looking after this thread. Can't be easy work moderating these forums but at the same time they are paid to sit and post on forums, and they're meant to be doing it unlike some of us!

@Xylphan that was a great post, thank you for taking the time to do it.

ZOS_AlanG

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Good morning @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and @ZOS_AlanG. The floor is still yours. We would just like a little update even if it is we are still working on it. The silence is deafening.

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Not a demand, merely a simple request.

Please give some indication that action is being taken other than a prolonged 'investigation'.

Thanking you in anticipation

I can confirm we're still working on the matter, but don't have anything to share at this point.

In all likelihood, when we have news to share we'll lock this thread and create a new one, to ensure the news is present in the opening post.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

I keep thinking about the poor moderator who has zero control over any part of this situation but whose job it is to keep an eye on this thread and filter out rule violations.

Poor guy/gal. Being the only person who actually sees this, seeing so much hate directed at the company you work for and try to support. Going home at night feeling like ***. It's gotta be soul-crushing.

We appreciate the sentiment, but as moderators we know not to take such things personally. I'll add that we aren't the only ones aware of this thread.

Roechacca

So there we have it folks. Still working on it. Play PvP at your own risk. Standby for further news.

ShedsHisTail

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

I keep thinking about the poor moderator who has zero control over any part of this situation but whose job it is to keep an eye on this thread and filter out rule violations.

Poor guy/gal. Being the only person who actually sees this, seeing so much hate directed at the company you work for and try to support. Going home at night feeling like ***. It's gotta be soul-crushing.

We appreciate the sentiment, but as moderators we know not to take such things personally. I'll add that we aren't the only ones aware of this thread.

... He says as he cries himself to sleep.

clayandaudrey_ESO

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Good morning @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and @ZOS_AlanG. The floor is still yours. We would just like a little update even if it is we are still working on it. The silence is deafening.

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Not a demand, merely a simple request.

Please give some indication that action is being taken other than a prolonged 'investigation'.

Thanking you in anticipation

I can confirm we're still working on the matter, but don't have anything to share at this point.

In all likelihood, when we have news to share we'll lock this thread and create a new one, to ensure the news is present in the opening post.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

I keep thinking about the poor moderator who has zero control over any part of this situation but whose job it is to keep an eye on this thread and filter out rule violations.

Poor guy/gal. Being the only person who actually sees this, seeing so much hate directed at the company you work for and try to support. Going home at night feeling like ***. It's gotta be soul-crushing.

We appreciate the sentiment, but as moderators we know not to take such things personally. I'll add that we aren't the only ones aware of this thread.

Thanks for the update. Communication is the key to restoring trust.

Turelus

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Good morning @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and @ZOS_AlanG. The floor is still yours. We would just like a little update even if it is we are still working on it. The silence is deafening.

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Not a demand, merely a simple request.

Please give some indication that action is being taken other than a prolonged 'investigation'.

Thanking you in anticipation

I can confirm we're still working on the matter, but don't have anything to share at this point.

In all likelihood, when we have news to share we'll lock this thread and create a new one, to ensure the news is present in the opening post.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

I keep thinking about the poor moderator who has zero control over any part of this situation but whose job it is to keep an eye on this thread and filter out rule violations.

Poor guy/gal. Being the only person who actually sees this, seeing so much hate directed at the company you work for and try to support. Going home at night feeling like ***. It's gotta be soul-crushing.

We appreciate the sentiment, but as moderators we know not to take such things personally. I'll add that we aren't the only ones aware of this thread.

They're watching!

Thanks for the update Alan, will be interesting what is said when the time comes.

Bromburak

I am just wondering why Matt Firor doesn't step in when really bad things like this are happening to find some words for the community. When we had massive bot issues after release Matt published a great article a couple weeks later to explain the problems what are they working on, imo it was the best he could have done in that situation.

You know I really love this game and the community but this matter is very bad publicity for ESO and I cannot just watch and wait on a hot topic like cheating when i run a business in this industry. This is the worst thing that can happen in a game.