Cheating and Exploits

SwaminoNowlino

Leave it to ZOS to do the right thing the wrong way. I love this company man

Rohamad_Ali

I'd just like to say if ZOS made a mistake and wrongfully banned my account (They haven't ever), I wouldn't handle it quite as gracefully as some of these people have but I would try too . Understanding ZOS is at least trying to stop 3rd party programs would make me more tolerant of mistakes . So good on you to those that have patience and understanding . You're an inspiration to me if not anyone else .

Loralai_907

It would super suck to be wrongfully banned, but I am beyond grateful that they are doing SOMETHING. Of course this isn't at perfect yet. Of course there are going to be some snaggles in getting it set up just right. I can handle that. I would prefer this to allowing actual cheaters to remain. If I were wrongfully banned, then I guess I would be forced to weed my strawberry garden this weekend lol.

Turelus

I didn't get a chance to watch ESO Live yet so if someone who did can update me on information.

It seems they spoke about this new detection system but did they also talk about how bans would be handled?
So far everyone I have seen banned by the new detection system was only handed as suspension, wondering if this is a strike system or just auto-detection and suspensions only.

This is also really hard to talk about with the restrictions on what we can actually say on the subject.

Laggus

@Turelus go to page 19 of this thread. @ShedsHisTail posted the link to the ESO Live and says go to about the 15mins marker.

Turelus

Laggus wrote: »

@Turelus go to page 19 of this thread. @ShedsHisTail posted the link to the ESO Live and says go to about the 15mins marker.

Thanks just checked that part out, will watch the whole show when I get some time tomorrow morning.

Firstly if anything in here is too much information or in breech of rules please snip it rather than delete the post, trying to stay within the realms of what I can talk about but it's hard to discuss the issue.

Okay so Jessica said it's "grounds for a permanant ban" but as of yet from the people complaining outside these forums (and as such able to share information from mails etc.) I haven't seen anyone who's had a permanent ban.

So again my main question to ZOS is how does the bans system work?
Are we on a strike system and these people I am reading about are just first time offenders getting their slap on the wrist and warning, then should they repeat it get a permanent ban?

Additionally what's happening to materials/items/gold which is farmed on these accounts caught using third party programs?

I know that you can't talk about specific cases and such but these are the kind of reassurances that myself and others are looking for. We need to know that those caught are not gaining from it.

To quote one person who has been talking about it (and claimed innocence).
"Its only <removed>, I can live with it :P I've not really been playing much this week anyway so a few more days wont hurt TBH"

The above person claimed innocence but at the same time this goes back to what many of us were saying about the mentality of the community in regards to cheating/exploiting. They just go do something else during their suspension then come back still owning all their gains from it.

Bromburak

mommadani907 wrote: »

It would super suck to be wrongfully banned, but I am beyond grateful that they are doing SOMETHING. Of course this isn't at perfect yet.

The problem with "of course" are the decisions that are being made to launch this on a friday.
Basically it means they don't need to deal with all the false positives during weekend because the 72 hour bans are passed on Monday anyway ...

Now this leaves the impression that customers are crash test dummies for an unfinished disastrous cheat detection system.

Loralai_907

I'm just saying I don't expect a perfect on try 1. I'm not at all surprised that Friday was the day they chose to let it loose though honestly. They have a lot of work to do, so many flawed ideas and things that just make no sense, not just in this topic. I hope that they eventually do better, but until some things start happening differently I am not holding my breath.

Bromburak

@ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_AlanG @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
I am certain that many customers would agree that nobody is perfect and that we all do mistakes but your customer management is catastrophic. As gamers we are customers and not part of your quality assurance department dealing with a hotfix.

You are releasing a new cheat detection system on a weekend that results in auto bans or at least will recommend bans for further investigations by staff , while we all appreciate that you are working on anti cheat solutions, everyone knows that such changes will result in false positives as well. Because thats how untested software works in general.

Did you ever think about how your decisions have impact on customers when you release changes like this on a friday?
How can you accept the fact that many innocent players will not get any help by support over the weekend?
Isn't it common sense that all support tickets on false positives are obsolete on Monday because the 72 hours are passed anyway? Now guess how this looks like from customer perspective.

Mureel

I don't watch the live thing, so did they really push a live patch yesterday? Or did they just talk about having done it yesterday?

Bromburak

Mureel wrote: »

I don't watch the live thing, so did they really push a live patch yesterday? Or did they just talk about having done it yesterday?

It's obvious that are some changes effective since yesterday.
Btw. you were posting in the same threads regarding login and account suspended issues ...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274561/login-servers-down/p6

Mureel

Bromburak wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

I don't watch the live thing, so did they really push a live patch yesterday? Or did they just talk about having done it yesterday?

It's obvious that are some changes effective since yesterday.
Btw. you were posting in the same threads regarding login and account suspended issues ...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274561/login-servers-down/p6

I'm sorry I am tired - lol as dumb as it is I've been barely asleep all night just because this has annoyed me pretty thoroughly.

I think I misunderstand how my posting in the thread up there has anything to do with asking if they really push a hotfix yesterday or just talk about it on twitch.

I'm tired though so maybe not thinking straight.

helediron

Mureel wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

I don't watch the live thing, so did they really push a live patch yesterday? Or did they just talk about having done it yesterday?

It's obvious that are some changes effective since yesterday.
Btw. you were posting in the same threads regarding login and account suspended issues ...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274561/login-servers-down/p6

I'm sorry I am tired - lol as dumb as it is I've been barely asleep all night just because this has annoyed me pretty thoroughly.

I think I misunderstand how my posting in the thread up there has anything to do with asking if they really push a hotfix yesterday or just talk about it on twitch.

I'm tired though so maybe not thinking straight.

Stay cool. This same happened with survey map exploit. I got false positive suspend and got cleared later. My experience:
- Suspensions happened friday night.
- There was only one guy dealing with appeals during the weekend. All emails to me came from same guy, until next tuesday.
- First email was standard: you cheated, deal with it.
- In your first appeal ask why exactly you were suspended.
- First response to my question was also standard: you cheated, deal with it. But they did mention the reason. At least in Europe ZOS have to tell it, or they would be in deep trouble.
- ZOS does not have good filtering. If you are a good player, that alone may make you selected in into suspects.
- Think hard how ZOS might have selected you. Shut away that thought that "well, of course, i am NOT a cheater", but think how do you look like at the server side. Think why you might have been selected. Think what evidence you have to differentiate from a cheater.
- Show that whatever is the reason for suspend, you did it legitimally. E.g. i got my other account cleared in 30 hours because of clear evidence they were able to check. My other account got cleared four days later because i needed to log in to check few things.
- Use the appeal mechanism. ZOS really reads them and handles them as top priority, although not as fast as you want.
- Keep your head cool and be polite. There was initial schock. But after a week it was just another funny episode.

After all this, i support ZOS catching cheaters. In fact after going through the process, i can understand more of the difficulties ZOS has identifying cheats and banning real cheaters with as little collateral damage as possible. Remember ZOS is banning real cheaters, and they have to operate at gray area.

GreenhaloX

It looks better on top here. See folks.. ZOS do listen. Just have to be nice and give it a bit of time. Btw, kudos to all you brave folks for braving the days without caffeine. Oh man.. I need my coffee.. Lol!

Mureel

helediron wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

I don't watch the live thing, so did they really push a live patch yesterday? Or did they just talk about having done it yesterday?

It's obvious that are some changes effective since yesterday.
Btw. you were posting in the same threads regarding login and account suspended issues ...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274561/login-servers-down/p6

I'm sorry I am tired - lol as dumb as it is I've been barely asleep all night just because this has annoyed me pretty thoroughly.

I think I misunderstand how my posting in the thread up there has anything to do with asking if they really push a hotfix yesterday or just talk about it on twitch.

I'm tired though so maybe not thinking straight.

Stay cool. This same happened with survey map exploit. I got false positive suspend and got cleared later. My experience:
- Suspensions happened friday night.
- There was only one guy dealing with appeals during the weekend. All emails to me came from same guy, until next tuesday.
- First email was standard: you cheated, deal with it.
- In your first appeal ask why exactly you were suspended.
- First response to my question was also standard: you cheated, deal with it. But they did mention the reason. At least in Europe ZOS have to tell it, or they would be in deep trouble.
- ZOS does not have good filtering. If you are a good player, that alone may make you selected in into suspects.
- Think hard how ZOS might have selected you. Shut away that thought that "well, of course, i am NOT a cheater", but think how do you look like at the server side. Think why you might have been selected. Think what evidence you have to differentiate from a cheater.
- Show that whatever is the reason for suspend, you did it legitimally. E.g. i got my other account cleared in 30 hours because of clear evidence they were able to check. My other account got cleared four days later because i needed to log in to check few things.
- Use the appeal mechanism. ZOS really reads them and handles them as top priority, although not as fast as you want.
- Keep your head cool and be polite. There was initial schock. But after a week it was just another funny episode.

After all this, i support ZOS catching cheaters. In fact after going through the process, i can understand more of the difficulties ZOS has identifying cheats and banning real cheaters with as little collateral damage as possible. Remember ZOS is banning real cheaters, and they have to operate at gray area.

Already been through this once and I am as cool as I can possibly be given the literally HUNDREDS of ££ I've thrown down this game and never would cheat and in FACT the first people on NA who were helping others into keeps with chains, back when ZOS still cared and specifically asked our guild leader for video, my old guild The Noore was the ones recording it and going to other keeps to watch for it and spent a Whole Day doing this for ZOS so yeah - I have a little bit of rage on when it comes to being accused of cheating for no legitimate reason.

Going around a town, using blade of woe behind buildings and in bosmer tents. Using twisting path to get around because I hate how slow we 'run' now. That is the extent of my activities and this is a bad thing to happen on a Friday anyway.

I would call what I was doing, waiting for raid to begin yesterday, DERPING. Literally hunting some dried blood as it's rare by killing NPCs.

It's all well and good that I'll be cleared later - but I guess i should be glad I've gotten on the boards for the weeklies earlier in the week and that my guild understands and isn't gonna kick me for missing 3x raids by the time this is over.

So.

Ryuho

pathetic @ZOS what's the point of this topic..

Pomaikai

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

While we are glad to see the amount of activity occurring within this thread, we would like to inform everyone that "Flaming" other members is in fact a violation of the Community Rules. We have removed quite a bit of flaming rather recently. If this continues, those who feel it necessary to take such a course of action may find a temporary suspension or permanent deactivation of once access to the ESO forums. Thank you for your understanding.

Cheat all you want, we'll just smack your hand and ask you nicely to stop. Act mean to each other, and you're banned for life. The irony is palpable.

Pomaikai

Laggus wrote: »

@Turelus go to page 19 of this thread. @ShedsHisTail posted the link to the ESO Live and says go to about the 15mins marker.

Yes, you have to sit through 25% of the ESO Live which consisted of nothing but game ads and ESO music videos, along with the staff goofing off.

Jessica then basically says nothing new about the cheating from ZOS's previous Vaguebooking, other than that using a 3rd party cheating program is grounds for a permaban. Not that it will actually result in one, just that it could happen.

At this point, actions speak louder than words. I'm waiting to see some real action on their part.

Laggus

Well there are some 1vx'rs (actually more like 2 or 3vx'rs) that went MIA that I would usually see on these last couple days. Theres also some who seem to be a lot more mortal and started sucking all of a sudden. So maybe things are on the up. We'll see.

Pomaikai

Wednesday and Thursday were horrible vis-a-vis the unkillables on TF. Last night was actually fun. Sure, I died a lot, but I had a chance.

Mureel

Why do you allow your mods to close threads which are clearly full of people begging for help under the guise of 'discussing disciplinary action' when they and you know as well as we do that there was no actual action at all?

If I wanted a canned ham I'd buy one. I don't need canned, irrelevant answers to actual, pertinent questions.

Your rubbish hack check literally stole three days from several people and your answer is to lock a thread 8 pages in?

Convenient.

I am appalled and embarrassed by and for you and I think you need to get a grip.

You left several people hanging all Weekend and for what?

Wow.

LastAmbushOnEarth

they wrongly banned 2 my friends lol

they unbanned them after a ticket

but shortly they banned one of them again after "review at the highest authority level"

CS support is totally garbage here, sad

Mureel

Pomaikai wrote: »

Wednesday and Thursday were horrible vis-a-vis the unkillables on TF. Last night was actually fun. Sure, I died a lot, but I had a chance.

Yeah the stuff in the thread I mentioned had nothing to do with pvp and mist people weren't even in pvp but got suspensions not bans, for speedhacking for W through a town, using blade of woe, things like that.

These were people somehow filtered by hack thingy and who never expected that hence thought we just had log errors.

This was not any pvp 1v blah or ultimate spam or anything related and I cannot speak for everyone, but I damn sure never used any speed hacks.

Please don't lump us together.

Tavore1138

So just for those of us who are behind - they banned a few people for running too fast but are still allowing people to jump into inner keeps and take them from the inside?

Animal_Mother

Part of anti-cheating enforcement should include education as to what is considered cheating in the game. I feel sorry for those improperly suspended by ZOS on Friday; some may not have known what was bad or not.

For example, one item that's been buried by two years of forum posts, is that keyboard and mouse macro software have been considered third-party software and have been flagged as cheats by ZOS' anti-cheat package in the past. If you are using them - turn them off. If you need them on for a good reason (such as a disability), contact customer support.

LastAmbushOnEarth

Bucket666 wrote: »

an innocent person has nothing to fear.

blatant lie

Mureel

Tavore1138 wrote: »

So just for those of us who are behind - they banned accused and temporarily suspended a few SEVERAL people for running too fast even though they had zero proof at all of any actual cheating but are still allowing people to jump into inner keeps and take them from the inside?

Fixed that for you.

Mureel

LastAmbushOnEarth wrote: »

Bucket666 wrote: »

an innocent person has nothing to fear.

blatant lie

Also utterly ignorant lol.

Elsonso

Tavore1138 wrote: »

So just for those of us who are behind - they banned a few people for running too fast but are still allowing people to jump into inner keeps and take them from the inside?

We know that people were recently suspended for speed hacking. We do not know what it was that caused the suspension, whether it was "running too fast" or something else. Everything in this thread, and similar threads, speculating about these suspensions is anecdotal, at best. Reliability of the testimonials will be suspect as it is possible the there are both liars and truth tellers in the mix.

The exploit for the keep walls is related to a game function that is separate from this most recent event.

Mureel

Bucket666 wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

So just for those of us who are behind - they banned a few people for running too fast but are still allowing people to jump into inner keeps and take them from the inside?

Nope. People got banned and try now to tell fairy tales to prove their innocence. And the more emotional people respond the less i believe them to be innocent. In the end an innocent person has nothing to fear.

Of course you are free to believe whatever you like but dont expect me to believe teardrop innocence stories.

This is not even the first time it's happened. And who is having boo hoo innocent stories?

You really believe this many people just wanna RUN FASTER enough to what? What is even the point?

Since you like, know everything.

I know I didn't and also, Innocent Until Actually Proven Guilty, Not OOPSIED by a ratcheted up detection algorithm.

Latency spikes set off this software, this I have in an actual email FROM ZOS which I have literally posted in the other thread.